PDA

View Full Version : North's #Hottake on final game



Northman
01-03-2016, 08:19 PM
First off, for the handful of hypocrites whining in the gameday thread please respect and understand that you need not enter this thread any further. Take your BS somewhere else please. Thanks in advance.


Now to the game.

At first i didnt know why Brock was being benched, thought it was a poor move and didnt send a very good message to Brock as it made it appear he was the problem. That clearly was not the case since only 1 of the turnovers was actually his doing. But... clearly this team still has an issue when it comes to getting motivation or inspiration to step up their play and they seemed invigorated when Manning came in, especially in the run game. Now, Manning still performed very much like Brock (missed long throws, balls batted down, holding the ball to long for sacks) but as pointed out by a couple of people in the gameday thread i do think Manning's experience showed when he was able to adjust on audibles and recognize the defensive schemes. So i think it was definitely a good move to bring Manning in with the type of game and all of what was on the line. Team still had moments of WTF but they did play better overall when they needed to.

Going forward into the playoffs i think its a no brainer you go with experience. Had Brock finished the game i would of said roll with him and take your chances but due to what happened today i dont think you can sit Manning unless he gets hurt in the playoff opener. I do think one thing was made quite clear today and that is we NEED our running game. We just do. I dont care if its under center or from shotgun it needs to be a major part of our success this year as seen when both QB's are in the game. Defense played well despite the turnovers so the only thing i can hope for there is that they remain and get healthy.

On to the playoffs! Lets hope we can take advantage this year and get it done!

Go Broncos!

I Eat Staples
01-03-2016, 08:30 PM
I don't think we have much of a chance with Peyton. I think we had a chance with Brock.

Changing QBs gave the team a spark, let's see how they do when Peyton actually starts the game. Peyton himself said it best in his interview, Brock got unlucky and the team played better when Peyton was in. Turnovers are mostly luck anyway, it was bound to stop. I don't think Peyton had much to do with it.

BroncoWave
01-03-2016, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I said before the game that something like this could be the worst possible case scenario for us. Peyton coming in, playing well, and there being a controversy.

Manning really didn't do much today though, so it's impossible to say if he's healthy enough to play for a whole game and lead us to a win. We just got a huge spark from him and were mostly carried by the running game in the second half.

If we see regular season Peyton in our first playoff game, we are one-and-donesville.

Dapper Dan
01-03-2016, 08:35 PM
Several members said the running game can't work with Peyton. I'm glad that's over with. I'm just glad we are #1. It's pretty awesome right now. Patriots can suck it.

Northman
01-03-2016, 08:36 PM
I don't think we have much of a chance with Peyton. I think we had a chance with Brock.

Changing QBs gave the team a spark, let's see how they do when Peyton actually starts the game. Peyton himself said it best in his interview, Brock got unlucky and the team played better when Peyton was in. Turnovers are mostly luck anyway, it was bound to stop. I don't think Peyton had much to do with it.

Manning didnt have much to do with the actual scoring but i do think his experience in play recognition helped a lot today. If Brock can get to that point (probably will with time) than he will be fine with this team.

BroncoWave
01-03-2016, 08:37 PM
Several members said the running game can't work with Peyton. I'm glad that's over with. I'm just glad we are #1. It's pretty awesome right now. Patriots can suck it.

I'm just interesting in seeing if that can hold up when the team isn't just hype from him coming in the middle of the game to save the day.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
01-03-2016, 08:40 PM
First off, for the handful of hypocrites whining in the gameday thread please respect and understand that you need not enter this thread any further. Take your BS somewhere else please. Thanks in advance.


Now to the game.

At first i didnt know why Brock was being benched, thought it was a poor move and didnt send a very good message to Brock as it made it appear he was the problem. That clearly was not the case since only 1 of the turnovers was actually his doing. But... clearly this team still has an issue when it comes to getting motivation or inspiration to step up their play and they seemed invigorated when Manning came in, especially in the run game. Now, Manning still performed very much like Brock (missed long throws, balls batted down, holding the ball to long for sacks) but as pointed out by a couple of people in the gameday thread i do think Manning's experience showed when he was able to adjust on audibles and recognize the defensive schemes. So i think it was definitely a good move to bring Manning in with the type of game and all of what was on the line. Team still had moments of WTF but they did play better overall when they needed to.

Going forward into the playoffs i think its a no brainer you go with experience. Had Brock finished the game i would of said roll with him and take your chances but due to what happened today i dont think you can sit Manning unless he gets hurt in the playoff opener. I do think one thing was made quite clear today and that is we NEED our running game. We just do. I dont care if its under center or from shotgun it needs to be a major part of our success this year as seen when both QB's are in the game. Defense played well despite the turnovers so the only thing i can hope for there is that they remain and get healthy.

On to the playoffs! Lets hope we can take advantage this year and get it done!

Go Broncos!

Okay, I'm not sure if this post is sarcasm or not but couldn't have said it better, North.

Just ****** with ya. :D

Valar Morghulis
01-03-2016, 08:42 PM
My hot take is how good was Bradley Roby tonight?

I love that kid.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
01-03-2016, 08:43 PM
My hot take is how good was Bradley Roby tonight?

I love that kid.

Unbelievable. That tackle he made on was it Woodhead? On that 3rd down was too good. Guy was all over the field tonight making huge play after huge play.

I Eat Staples
01-03-2016, 08:45 PM
Manning didnt have much to do with the actual scoring but i do think his experience in play recognition helped a lot today. If Brock can get to that point (probably will with time) than he will be fine with this team.

Yeah he had a really good audible to a run on CJ's near touchdown. I don't think experience makes up for all of his limitations though, mainly his tendency to throw multiple interceptions per game.

I think no matter who starts at QB, we're going to lose to Pittsburgh in the 1st round. Pretty unlucky with them getting the 6.

Northman
01-03-2016, 08:46 PM
Okay, I'm not sure if this post is sarcasm or not but couldn't have said it better, North.

Just ****** with ya. :D

Not sarcasm.

I would of posted it earlier but was on my phone and that is far too tedious to do on a phone.

Northman
01-03-2016, 08:48 PM
Yeah he had a really good audible to a run on CJ's near touchdown. I don't think experience makes up for all of his limitations though, mainly his tendency to throw multiple interceptions per game.

I think no matter who starts at QB, we're going to lose to Pittsburgh in the 1st round. Pretty unlucky with them getting the 6.

Maybe, this season has been strange as it is anyway. We beat GB, NE, and Cincy but lose to Oakland and Indy. KC and Pitt are contenders so i give them a little pass even though we had Pitt down. But this team has shown it can win close games this year so maybe, just maybe we get luckier going forward.

DenBronx
01-03-2016, 08:50 PM
Yeah this shit is getting confusing now. My heart says Manning should be our QB but my brain says Brock. Deep down I am hoping Manning can ride off into the sunset with another ring.

TXBRONC
01-03-2016, 08:52 PM
I don't think we have much of a chance with Peyton. I think we had a chance with Brock.

Changing QBs gave the team a spark, let's see how they do when Peyton actually starts the game. Peyton himself said it best in his interview, Brock got unlucky and the team played better when Peyton was in. Turnovers are mostly luck anyway, it was bound to stop. I don't think Peyton had much to do with it.

Manning isn't the future of the Broncos and think Elway realizes that. The controversy will be with media not in the Broncos locker room.

SR
01-03-2016, 09:21 PM
Judging by the thread title I thought something profound was going to be said in the OP. Disappointing.

Northman
01-03-2016, 09:25 PM
Judging by the thread title I thought something profound was going to be said in the OP. Disappointing.

Blow me beautiful.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-03-2016, 09:29 PM
Blow me beautiful.

Is there suppose to be a comma before beautiful?

Northman
01-03-2016, 09:34 PM
Is there suppose to be a comma before beautiful?

I dont know. I came out pretty fast, get it? Fast? lmao

Joel
01-03-2016, 10:03 PM
I don't think we have much of a chance with Peyton. I think we had a chance with Brock.
Funny: As we made the switch, I found myself thinking the difference is that the guy with six career starts means we MAY have a chance, but the guy with 5 NFL MVPs means we ALWAYS have a chance.


Changing QBs gave the team a spark, let's see how they do when Peyton actually starts the game. Peyton himself said it best in his interview, Brock got unlucky and the team played better when Peyton was in. Turnovers are mostly luck anyway, it was bound to stop. I don't think Peyton had much to do with it.
Madden turnovers are mostly luck; REAL turnovers are mostly a combination of voluntary risk, fundamentals and execution: That's why all but ONE of our FIVE turnovers were passes. Given our shared love of predictive stats, one would expect you to know that's about the annual NFL average: 6/7 turnovers (i.e. ~85%) are passes, so if we're going to accept SIX TIMES the turnovers, they better come with six times the yards and scoring.

In particular, BOTH Oz' Ints were due to "unluckily" rushed throws in turn due to our "unluckily" awful lines "unlucky" FAILURE to pass protect, just as Rivers' Int was an "unluckily" rushed throw due to his "unluckily" walking wounded lines "unlucky" inability to pass protect. Likewise Oz' fumble was due to his "unlucky" FAILURE to make a pre-snap read of a corner blitz, just as Mannings "lucky" ability to make a pre-snap read of a blitz from the right caused his "lucky" audible to a run left.

Sure, luck happens: Sanders hadn't fumbled (a pass) since leaving Pitt, and didn't fail to wrap up the ball; the defender just made a nice play knocking loose and a better one recovering it. I'm OK with that since it was a shot downfield covering and thereby FLIPPING the field: No worse than a punt—but the strip sack gave SD free points that almost sunk us. I didn't see Andersons fumble well enough to know if he failed to protect the ball or just had bad luck, but either way:

The majority of our turnovers were NOT "bad luck," but bad PLAY (by us; good play by SD, and turnovers require both.)

What's all that got to do with Manning vs. Oz? Well, Mannings experience and brains lets him see FAR more than Oz both before and after the snap; we spent the first half of the season with people saying Oz' mobility compensates for awful protection better than Mannings quick reads and releases, but even if that's true in general, experience has made all the difference, because Oz goes down in a heap far more than he stays alive. But, far more importantly:

Manning's a true team leader, and part of the reason is that he doesn't hesitate to rip someone a new one on the field any and every time they blow even a minor assignment. That's properly a coachs job, but one of many ways Manning's been our OC in all but name since the day he got here (itself part of why meshing his offensive philosophy with Kubiaks equally complex one has been such a challenge.)

The team screws up fundamentals and execution far less with Manning, because he simpy won't tolerate that, and has the respect to demand better. In terms of individual ability, a healthy Manning's still better than a healthy Oz, and a healthy either better than an unhealthy either, but when BOTH are hurt (I read Pitt separated Oz' non-throwing shoulder) I'll take the one with extensive playoff experience and the gravitas to demand and GET playoff performance from teammates.

Pointing to the coldest playoff game he ever WON and saying, "He's NEVER won a playoff became below that temperature," as if if it were a profound revelation rather than mere tautology doesn't change that. Aaron Rodgers is winless in games he lost, too: That doesn't mean he's lost "it" or should retire. Pointing to Mannings playoff record with the defenseless Colts and blocking-impaired Broncos doesn't change it either: Who else could've done as well (let alone BETTER)?

The real question is why we had a guy with 6 career starts slinging it all over the field against a GROSSLY inferior team even though our line run blocks FAR better than it passes. That drastically increases lucks role, not just in turnovers, but by making every possession a boom/bust scenario while increasing the overall number of possessions so the bad team gets more opportunities to get lucky. Never give a sucker an even break: Dominating a 20-10 game NEVER in doubt is FAR better than a 50/50 shot of being on either end of a 30 pt blowout. Sure, the secondary was beat up, but so was their everything else. Don't take stupid risks vs. bad teams.

GEM
01-03-2016, 10:06 PM
My hot take is how good was Bradley Roby tonight?

I love that kid.

I was yelling at Rivers what an idiot he was to keep throwing on Roby. :laugh:

Simple Jaded
01-03-2016, 10:15 PM
Joel, I think I can speak for all of BroncosForums when I say thank you for letting us get as much enjoyment as possible out of the Osweiler starts by keeping your War and Piece (as in POS) posts to a minimum.

#Silverlinings

NightTerror218
01-03-2016, 10:30 PM
First off, for the handful of hypocrites whining in the gameday thread please respect and understand that you need not enter this thread any further. Take your BS somewhere else please. Thanks in advance.

Now to the game.

At first i didnt know why Brock was being benched, thought it was a poor move and didnt send a very good message to Brock as it made it appear he was the problem. That clearly was not the case since only 1 of the turnovers was actually his doing. But... clearly this team still has an issue when it comes to getting motivation or inspiration to step up their play and they seemed invigorated when Manning came in, especially in the run game. Now, Manning still performed very much like Brock (missed long throws, balls batted down, holding the ball to long for sacks) but as pointed out by a couple of people in the gameday thread i do think Manning's experience showed when he was able to adjust on audibles and recognize the defensive schemes. So i think it was definitely a good move to bring Manning in with the type of game and all of what was on the line. Team still had moments of WTF but they did play better overall when they needed to.

Going forward into the playoffs i think its a no brainer you go with experience. Had Brock finished the game i would of said roll with him and take your chances but due to what happened today i dont think you can sit Manning unless he gets hurt in the playoff opener. I do think one thing was made quite clear today and that is we NEED our running game. We just do. I dont care if its under center or from shotgun it needs to be a major part of our success this year as seen when both QB's are in the game. Defense played well despite the turnovers so the only thing i can hope for there is that they remain and get healthy.

On to the playoffs! Lets hope we can take advantage this year and get it done!

Go Broncos!

Oh, Manning was running game Kubiak's offense today. Lots of snaps from under center.

NightTerror218
01-03-2016, 10:32 PM
My hot take is how good was Bradley Roby tonight?

I love that kid.

I think he will be paid and Talib will walk in a couple years.

Simple Jaded
01-03-2016, 10:37 PM
I think he will be paid and Talib will walk in a couple years.

Isn't their contract up at the same time? Good timing.

GEM
01-03-2016, 10:39 PM
He played better than Talib today, for sure. Talib is pretty hot and cold.

NightTerror218
01-03-2016, 10:41 PM
Isn't their contract up at the same time? Good timing.

Depends on the 5th year option. I think Talib got a 4 year offer the year we drafted roby. So yes I think you are right

Joel
01-03-2016, 10:43 PM
Joel, I think I can speak for all of BroncosForums when I say thank you for letting us get as much enjoyment as possible out of the Osweiler starts by keeping your War and Piece (as in POS) posts to a minimum.

#Silverlinings
Moving across an ocean takes time. And, frankly, blowing double digit halftime leads two weeks straight gave me absolutely ZERO desire to slog through a gameday thread; past experience tells me there was more than ample angry excrement here in my absence. Not to mention that since most folks FINALLY woke up and smelled the PoS blocking, there hasn't been a whole lot for me to say except "I told ya so," and no one wants to hear that (however deservedly.)

NightTerror218
01-03-2016, 10:53 PM
Moving across an ocean takes time. And, frankly, blowing double digit halftime leads two weeks straight gave me absolutely ZERO desire to slog through a gameday thread; past experience tells me there was more than ample angry excrement here in my absence. Not to mention that since most folks FINALLY woke up and smelled the PoS blocking, there hasn't been a whole lot for me to say except "I told ya so," and no one wants to hear that (however deservedly.)

You harp the same think. We all know own OL is bad. But that wasn't everything people talked about.

Hard to say I told you so on common sense.

MasterShake
01-04-2016, 12:30 AM
Yeah this shit is getting confusing now. My heart says Manning should be our QB but my brain says Brock. Deep down I am hoping Manning can ride off into the sunset with another ring.

I'm right there with you. The bottom line in my head is that if Manning was truly being affected by the injury and is really doing better now, his leadership might be that intangible thing that gets us to an unlikely championship run. Personally I was happy to see him back on the field, but confused as to why Brock was being benched. Then 80 yards and a TD later I didn't care and was just worried about the Broncos winning. I still like Brock, but am happy to see Manning get one last shot and you know he has a chip on his shoulder.

Plus, its not like we ALL didn't know when we woke up today that the Pats would lose, we would have the #1 seed, and Manning would charge back into the game in the most unlikely way and give us some momentum going into the playoffs:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/22038364_zpst7yzqxat.jpg

Joel
01-04-2016, 12:42 AM
You harp the same think. We all know own OL is bad. But that wasn't everything people talked about.

Hard to say I told you so on common sense.
It wasn't "common sense" ni 2012, when our #1 seed lost at home in DOT to a 10-6 team we'd beaten badly on the road just a month earlier, all because we couldn't run out the clock with a TD lead at the end of regulation. It wasn't "common sense" in 2013, when the SB blowout went down EXACTLY as I here stated BEFORE the game it would, all because we couldn't protect a record-shattering QB nor give him run support to relieve the pressure. It wasn't even "common sense" LAST year, when Schlereth publicly called out our line and Sharpe publicly said our best "TE" couldn't block the sun out of his eyes.

ALL that time it was "our line's elite: Their sack totals are ridiculously low (just like the ridiculously low Mannings pre-snap reads and quick release produced in Indy his whole career." So congratulations that—in 2015—"we all" finally knew what I've been "harping on" since 2012 (longer, actually) despite groupthink denial. After 3-4 years, what was once absurd has now graduated to common sense. Yet I and the few others booed for saying it that long are somehow STILL "wrong." :rolleyes:

Yet another reason not to continue my Sisyphus impression when there are lots of frankly much more important things on my plate.

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2016, 12:55 AM
We didn't lose the SuperBowl because of a lack of oline protection, we lost the SuperBowl because John Fox and the coaching staff failed miserably at preparing the team for the biggest game of the year.

Joel
01-04-2016, 01:22 AM
We didn't lose the SuperBowl because of a lack of oline protection, we lost the SuperBowl because John Fox and the coaching staff failed miserably at preparing the team for the biggest game of the year.
Defense was prepared: Even with literally HALF its starters on IR, it played a GREAT game (even with all the turnovers, the only first half TD allowed was on a phantom endzone PI on 3rd down that gave Seattle 1st and G at our 1.) Demaryius Thomas set a SB receptions record (and scored the TD that prevented the first SB shutout in history) on what was diagnosed at the time as a separated shoulder. And if we only check the stat line, Manning and even the line had a solid game.

Don't you believe it though. Manning ran for his life, despite only facing a four man rush that let Seattle drop SEVEN guys all over the short routes. If we had run blocking good enough to exploit the fact they basically GAVE us the second level, it would've been very different, but they knew all they had to do to beat us was beat Manning, and that the likes of Chris Clark, Orlando Franklin, Manny Ramirez and Zane Beadles couldn't win a 5-on-4 matchup if their season depended on it.

Call it a blueprint or whatever else, but that's what teams have been doing to us ever since: Either drop everyone in short coverage because our pass protection doesn't give Manning time for receivers to get deep, or just send the house through the Swiss cheese we call a line. Either way, the only thing we can do about is throw a screen or some other quick pass; it's not like the whole defensive line sprinting for Manning at the snap need fear a RB getting behind them for a 1˝ yd gain.

Bringing in Kubiak and Dennison was the best thing we could've done for our offense, it's just too bad we didn't do it after the SB instead of extending Fox. I was also crazy for suggesting we dump a "SB coaching staff" for the ones the leagues worst team just fired, but I guess that's just more "common sense" NOW, so I should shut up about that, too. Apparently DBs aren't the only people who need short memories in football....

Simple Jaded
01-04-2016, 01:54 AM
It's not common sense, nobody is firing a coach that literally just took his team to a SB, that's common sense. Of your many personality defects, Joel, pointing out how you were right when you weren't right is easily the most annoying.

Simple Jaded
01-04-2016, 02:04 AM
"I told you we shoulda drafted Jamarcus Russell, but that's all common sense now." Sissifuss

Simple Jaded
01-04-2016, 02:07 AM
Oh btw, Sisyphus, all those FA lineman you've been bitching about since 2012 have either been out of the league or benched.

I told you so.

Joel
01-04-2016, 02:30 AM
It's not common sense, nobody is firing a coach that literally just took his team to a SB, that's common sense. Of your many personality defects, Joel, pointing out how you were right when you weren't right is easily the most annoying.
Fox didn't take the team to the SB, Manning did: Fox was just along for the ride.

Good point though: Why hire a coach far better than the one who just COST us a SB, when we can wait till our 38-year-old QB turns 39, the coach costs us ANOTHER playoff game, and THEN hire the very guy we should've hired a year earlier? Manning has nothing but time to kill, and it certainly didn't take long to get him, Kubiak and Dennison on the same offensive page nor rebuild his crap line, right? It's not like the delay caused an injury so bad it may end his career and our SB hopes.


Oh btw, Sisyphus, all those FA lineman you've been bitching about since 2012 have either been out of the league or benched.

I told you so.
Yeah, Geoff Schwartz started every game till he BROKE HIS LEG two months ago and went on IR, but that's exactly the same as "benched." Tell me something true.

Joel
01-04-2016, 02:37 AM
"I told you we shoulda drafted Jamarcus Russell, but that's all common sense now." Sissifuss
I'll take False Equivalencies for $500, Alex: I never said we should've drafted Russell, and there aren't a bunch of people now saying, "DUH, genius, OF COURSE we should've drafted Jamarcus Russell: Any idiot can see that, so stop repeating the obvious!"

I really don't get this: You've been at least as critical of our line as I or anyone the whole time, but when I say it all you can come up with is lots of reasons why we should leave it as it is. Oh, NO, we can't go after FA studs: They're too expensive, and there aren't any good ones anyway. Oh, NO, we can't spend early draft picks: We need those for #4 OLBs and #4 CBs, and there aren't any good ones left at our pick anyway (even though the last 2-3 drafts were supposedly very deep there.)

You've consistently acknowledged there's a serious problem, yet reject ALL possible solutions, so what IS your solution, exactly? Refuse to solve the problem so we can keep bitching about it as it continues costing us playoff games?

Cugel
01-04-2016, 03:28 AM
We didn't lose the SuperBowl because of a lack of oline protection, we lost the SuperBowl because John Fox and the coaching staff failed miserably at preparing the team for the biggest game of the year.

What game did you watch? Because in the one I saw, Peyton was under pressure from the start of the game and Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett were in his face in under 2 seconds. I was counting "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand" and the ball was out of his hands every time.

So, nobody was open. And Peyton threw picks and a pick 6. Dekker and D.T. would get open deep sometimes, but Peyton never had time to throw it to them. Peyton was hit and knocked down all day, and the greatest offense of all time scored exactly 8 points.

What part of that isn't on the OL? You can blame John Fox for "not having the team ready to play" all day, but at the end of it the Broncos didn't have good enough players on the OL to compete with a great defense.

In fact, I've been saying for years that Denver would never win a SB until they addressed the problems on the OL.

And I've said all season that it was a horrible blunder not to do the Joe Thomas deal, because Ryan Harris and Tyler Polumbus are not SB starter caliber T's. And Michael Schofield would never have gotten on the field this year if either of their top 2 T's had stayed healthy.

Because replacing him with Tyler Polumbus was a desperation move. It's literally down to their 4th string T. (1st: Ryan Clady, 2nd: Ty Sambrailo, when both of them went down, move Harris to LT, and finally Polumbus for Schofield).

Maybe if they had done that Joe Thomas deal, the Broncos would be SB favorites. Instead we are wondering if the offense can score enough points to beat Pittsburgh or whether Manning can stay healthy enough to win in the playoffs.

Joel
01-04-2016, 03:47 AM
Was with you till the end, Cugel (even though stating exactly how the SB would go BEFORE it did, and taking lots of heat for it, was just "common sense" I should shut up about now.) But giving up our 2017 1st rounder when we could only GUESS at both what it AND how good Oz will be would've invited disaster.

If they'd wanted NEXT years 1st and 2017s unknown 2nd, sure, but we can't afford to be stuck with the next Curtis Painter, get a top five or top three pick out of it, but end up handing it to Cleveland to waste. We can talk draft value all day, but, ignoring the (great) extent those numbers are arbitrary and unreliable, 31-year-olds don't have the same draft value they did at 23, because that value including their whole career, which is (at least) half gone.

Realistically, Brown has maybe 2-3 seasons before his body starts to crumble, and that's not worth a 2nd and unknown 1st. Even though we'll probably spend them on a #5 CB and #5 OLB who'll be first ballot HoFers once all our starters retire or leave town. :rolleyes:

Timmy!
01-04-2016, 05:50 AM
I, for one, see through this ruse for hall of fame votes. Its the playoffs damnit, I have no time for this rational thought out version of north.

Valar Morghulis
01-04-2016, 07:07 AM
Love the Sisyphus reference

TXBRONC
01-04-2016, 08:32 AM
I dont know. I came out pretty fast, get it? Fast? lmao

That was limp.

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2016, 10:39 AM
Defense was prepared: Even with literally HALF its starters on IR, it played a GREAT game (even with all the turnovers, the only first half TD allowed was on a phantom endzone PI on 3rd down that gave Seattle 1st and G at our 1.) Demaryius Thomas set a SB receptions record (and scored the TD that prevented the first SB shutout in history) on what was diagnosed at the time as a separated shoulder. And if we only check the stat line, Manning and even the line had a solid game.

Don't you believe it though. Manning ran for his life, despite only facing a four man rush that let Seattle drop SEVEN guys all over the short routes. If we had run blocking good enough to exploit the fact they basically GAVE us the second level, it would've been very different, but they knew all they had to do to beat us was beat Manning, and that the likes of Chris Clark, Orlando Franklin, Manny Ramirez and Zane Beadles couldn't win a 5-on-4 matchup if their season depended on it.

Call it a blueprint or whatever else, but that's what teams have been doing to us ever since: Either drop everyone in short coverage because our pass protection doesn't give Manning time for receivers to get deep, or just send the house through the Swiss cheese we call a line. Either way, the only thing we can do about is throw a screen or some other quick pass; it's not like the whole defensive line sprinting for Manning at the snap need fear a RB getting behind them for a 1˝ yd gain.



What game did you watch? Because in the one I saw, Peyton was under pressure from the start of the game and Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett were in his face in under 2 seconds. I was counting "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand" and the ball was out of his hands every time.

So, nobody was open. And Peyton threw picks and a pick 6. Dekker and D.T. would get open deep sometimes, but Peyton never had time to throw it to them. Peyton was hit and knocked down all day, and the greatest offense of all time scored exactly 8 points.

What part of that isn't on the OL? You can blame John Fox for "not having the team ready to play" all day, but at the end of it the Broncos didn't have good enough players on the OL to compete with a great defense.

In fact, I've been saying for years that Denver would never win a SB until they addressed the problems on the OL.

And I've said all season that it was a horrible blunder not to do the Joe Thomas deal, because Ryan Harris and Tyler Polumbus are not SB starter caliber T's. And Michael Schofield would never have gotten on the field this year if either of their top 2 T's had stayed healthy.

Because replacing him with Tyler Polumbus was a desperation move. It's literally down to their 4th string T. (1st: Ryan Clady, 2nd: Ty Sambrailo, when both of them went down, move Harris to LT, and finally Polumbus for Schofield).

Maybe if they had done that Joe Thomas deal, the Broncos would be SB favorites. Instead we are wondering if the offense can score enough points to beat Pittsburgh or whether Manning can stay healthy enough to win in the playoffs.

I watched the game that showed the Seattle Seahawks jumping routes because they knew what was coming (something that had nothing to do with the oline, and something RIchard Sherman said after the game). Denver made no adjustment with them. It's also very well known that John Fox, in preparation leading up to the game, told everyone involved with practice to turn the noise down so they could "focus", and then proceeded to have to deal with working in a silent count from the beginning of the game, something they weren't prepared to do. That game was lost in the practice and preparation of leading up to the game.

Going into that game, Denver was #1 in the NFL in sacks given up, and top 5 in QB pressure allowed, so anybody "claiming" "to have know how bad our oline would do" is completely full of shit, and I don't believe you.

Also, we don't know if Kubiak was the right hire yet. He has to win in the playoffs. It will be a few years beefore we can even judge that unless he somehow wins a SUperBowl this year. And what does Rick Dennison even do exactly?

Cugel
01-04-2016, 11:22 AM
Was with you till the end, Cugel (even though stating exactly how the SB would go BEFORE it did, and taking lots of heat for it, was just "common sense" I should shut up about now.) But giving up our 2017 1st rounder when we could only GUESS at both what it AND how good Oz will be would've invited disaster.

If they'd wanted NEXT years 1st and 2017s unknown 2nd, sure, but we can't afford to be stuck with the next Curtis Painter, get a top five or top three pick out of it, but end up handing it to Cleveland to waste. We can talk draft value all day, but, ignoring the (great) extent those numbers are arbitrary and unreliable, 31-year-olds don't have the same draft value they did at 23, because that value including their whole career, which is (at least) half gone.

Realistically, Brown has maybe 2-3 seasons before his body starts to crumble, and that's not worth a 2nd and unknown 1st. Even though we'll probably spend them on a #5 CB and #5 OLB who'll be first ballot HoFers once all our starters retire or leave town. :rolleyes:

If you believe that the Broncos with this defense and Brock Osweiler will lose more than 6 games then maybe the trade was "a lot." Otherwise it was a steal for the Broncos.

Joe Thomas is a Hall of Famer. You could plug him in at LT and forget about the position for 5 years. There's been not the slightest decline in his play and he's never been injured and never missed a game.

Nobody they can get in the draft with that #59 pick or that pick in the 20's in 2017 will be REMOTELY as good as Joe Thomas. And if he wasn't 31 Cleveland wouldn't have been willing to trade him.

Thomas would have been the #3 pick of the draft, sight unseen in 2015. Same basically any year. He was in the pro-bowl his rookie year and has been for 8 straight years.

Is it worth two crappy draft picks to get a Hall of Fame LT? Hell yes!

We wouldn't be worrying about trying to win a SB with Ryan Harris at LT or Tyler Polumbus at RT with Joe Thomas on this team. I still rate the Broncos chances of a SB as LOW due to the crappy OL.

About the best I can hope for is that they get healthy enough in 2 weeks that they can protect Peyton. That is about a 50-50 proposition though. He could come out and get hit and sacked a bunch against, say, KC's defense, throw a bunch of picks, and it could be another UGLY loss.

I'm not insisting it will definitely happen, but it would definitely NOT happen with Joe Thomas.

And what exactly do the Broncos need besides OL in the draft? Basically nothing. Maybe a TE, but they have Jeff Heuerman coming back next year and Virgil Green is under contract. They might even bring back Owen Daniels. Unless they lose a bunch of FA's they are rock solid on defense and have enough weapons on offense, and Brock and Trevor Siemian are their QBs.

BroncoJoe
01-04-2016, 11:24 AM
JFC, Cugel. That ship sailed. GET THE F*** OVER IT.

Cugel
01-04-2016, 11:34 AM
I watched the game that showed the Seattle Seahawks jumping routes because they knew what was coming (something that had nothing to do with the oline, and something RIchard Sherman said after the game). Denver made no adjustment with them. It's also very well known that John Fox, in preparation leading up to the game, told everyone involved with practice to turn the noise down so they could "focus", and then proceeded to have to deal with working in a silent count from the beginning of the game, something they weren't prepared to do. That game was lost in the practice and preparation of leading up to the game.

Going into that game, Denver was #1 in the NFL in sacks given up, and top 5 in QB pressure allowed, so anybody "claiming" "to have know how bad our oline would do" is completely full of shit, and I don't believe you.

Do you really believe that there's some kind of "coaching" that could make up for the fact that Seattle was able to get constant pressure right in Peyton's face in under 2 seconds while rushing only 4 defenders and dropping 7?

That's a brute fact that if your OL is physically getting beat up front against only 4 defenders there's not much the coach can do. Their players are better than your players and are beating them physically. Period.

The Broncos were able to get to a SB without Ryan Clady, but Chris Clark was terrible, Orlando Franklin was terrible, Zane Beadles was terrible, nobody on that OL was good. And Peyton was beaten down, throwing off his back foot under intense pressure all game.

Same thing has happened in the past remember? The Giants did it to Tom Brady in 2 SBs and nobody would say that Belichick simply "failed to make adjustments at half-time" or some such crap.

Cugel
01-04-2016, 11:38 AM
JFC, Cugel. That ship sailed. GET THE F*** OVER IT.

I'll get over it, IF the Broncos prove they can pass protect in the playoffs. If not, then I say Elway threw away the Broncos chances when he failed to get a GOOD OL to replace Ryan Harris at LT.

If you want "rah! rah! We're going to the Super-BOooooowL!!!" posts then go somewhere else. :coffee:

NightTrainLayne
01-04-2016, 11:44 AM
I do think one thing was made quite clear today and that is we NEED our running game. We just do.

Seems like someone has been riding this hobby horse for the last 6-7 weeks or so. If only I could remember who that was. . .

NightTrainLayne
01-04-2016, 11:45 AM
My hot take is how good was Bradley Roby tonight?

I love that kid.


Right on! He was lights out.

BroncoJoe
01-04-2016, 11:51 AM
I'll get over it, IF the Broncos prove they can pass protect in the playoffs. If not, then I say Elway threw away the Broncos chances when he failed to get a GOOD OL to replace Ryan Harris at LT.

If you want "rah! rah! We're going to the Super-BOooooowL!!!" posts then go somewhere else. :coffee:

You can only throw something away that you're in possession of.

If you want to continue your idiotic rants, how about you go somewhere else. Maybe someone will actually listen to you. :coffee:

TXBRONC
01-04-2016, 11:55 AM
I'll get over it, IF the Broncos prove they can pass protect in the playoffs. If not, then I say Elway threw away the Broncos chances when he failed to get a GOOD OL to replace Ryan Harris at LT.

If you want "rah! rah! We're going to the Super-BOooooowL!!!" posts then go somewhere else. :coffee:

Cugel, do you know why teams like the Ravens stay relevant? It because GMs like Ozzie Newsome don't do stupid things giving away the store for one player.

BroncoJoe
01-04-2016, 12:25 PM
Cugel, do you know why teams like the Ravens stay relevant? It because GMs like Ozzie Newsome don't do stupid things giving away the store for one player.

Especially when we have a superior LT getting big $$ already who's been hurt.


Clady started every game during the 2008 NFL season and gave up just a half of a sack while committing only three penalties.[8] Following Week 12 of the 2008 NFL season, Peter King of Sports Illustrated said Clady was the third-best rookie overall.[9] On December 12, 2008, Clady won the Diet Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Week award, after his game against the Kansas City Chiefs. That was the first time all season that a lineman, either offensive or defensive, won the award.[10]

Clady finished third in voting behind Matt Ryan and Chris Johnson for the 2008 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year Award.[11] He was the only offensive lineman to receive any votes. He was the only starting NFL offensive lineman to give up less than one sack for the entire season. He was named to the Associated Press NFL All-Pro Second Team behind Michael Roos and Jordan Gross.[12]

In 2009, The Sporting News listed Clady as the No. 1 offensive tackle in the NFL.[citation needed] After the Broncos' October 4, 2009 victory over the Dallas Cowboys, Clady set a new NFL record for consecutive games to start a career without giving up a full sack. Through 20 games, he has surrendered only half of a sack.[13] Clady was named a starter for the 2009 Pro Bowl and was named First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Associated Press after the 2009 season.

On April 28, 2010, Clady injured his patella tendon while playing basketball but did not miss a game the following season.[14]

In 2011, Clady played all 16 games and was added to the 2012 Pro Bowl roster along with teammate Willis McGahee. After the season, the Broncos tried to sign Clady to a long-term deal and offered him a 5-year $50 million deal with $28 million guaranteed, but he refused.[citation needed]

In the 2012 season, Clady allowed just one sack the entire season. Towards the end of the season, he tore a labrum in his right shoulder, but still did not miss any time. He played the last few games of the season including the playoffs with the injury, and had surgery to repair it only after the season ended. He was selected to the 2013 Pro Bowl but did not play because of his shoulder.[citation needed]

On March 1, 2013, in order to prevent Clady from becoming an unrestricted free agent, the Broncos assigned him with the franchise tag worth $9.823 million. On July 14, 2013. Clady agreed to a new contract with the Broncos worth $52.5 million for five years. Of that, $33 million is guaranteed over the first three years of the contract. There is a maximum of $5 million in incentives attached to the deal. If Clady is named to the Associated Press's All-Pro team, then he would receive an extra $500,000 each subsequent season. Should he be named to the team a second time, he will receive an extra $1.5 million. The deal came one day prior to the July 15th Deadline to extend "franchise tagged" Players.[citation needed]

On September 18, 2013, Clady was placed on season-ending injured reserve, due to a Lisfranc injury he suffered during a week two matchup against the New York Giants.[15] The Denver Broncos signed Winston Justice to replace his roster spot.

Clady played in the 2015 Pro Bowl, earning his fourth appearance based on play during the 2014 season.

On May 28, 2015, Clady tore his ACL during OTA's. He was placed on injured reserve and will be out for the 2015 season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Clady

I Eat Staples
01-04-2016, 01:11 PM
What Superbowl are you guys talking about? I remember the Broncos winning the AFL championship in 2013; good thing we didn't have to play another game after that one.

TXBRONC
01-04-2016, 01:13 PM
What Superbowl are you guys talking about? I remember the Broncos winning the AFL championship in 2013; good thing we didn't have to play another game after that one.

You must have gotten into ShaneFlaco's stash of weed.

weazel
01-04-2016, 02:45 PM
This team is going as far as the defense takes it... don't matter who is under center, unfortunately

TXBRONC
01-04-2016, 02:47 PM
This team is going as far as the defense takes it... don't matter who is under center, unfortunately

I think it does matter. This is the playoffs and the team is going to need a quarterback to play well if they're make deep run/win the Super Bowl.

Simple Jaded
01-04-2016, 09:03 PM
Carl Nicks, out of the league.

Jon Asomoah, benched by a team that runs the exact same system you've been pining for since the 2013 SB.

Schwartz, season ending IR in both seasons.

You're full of shit.

#Truth

MOtorboat
01-04-2016, 09:22 PM
Seems like someone has been riding this hobby horse for the last 6-7 weeks or so. If only I could remember who that was. . .

If the running backs can average 7 yards per carry like they did yesterday, sign me up.