Let Brock Walk

[tomjonesrocks]

I'm absolutely boiling and I'd like to and may post the 2nd half numbers the last 2 weeks to add data to the argument - but if we give this guy 12M a season that's a massive mistake.

These last 2 games have been the worst regular season losses in a very long time.

Brock needs to walk. Period.

[ShaneFalco]

He is not a leader and he throws away the game. i agree

[NightTerror218]

Lmfao

[GEM]

He is not a leader and he throws away the game. i agree

Don't ******* start the Tebow bullshit...he's out of the league because he sucks donkey balls as a qb.

[ShaneFalco]

Oz would have ended game with 3 ints if not dropped. Make of it what you want.

[Northman]

Stupid stupid people.....

[Northman]

Don't ******* start the Tebow bullshit...he's out of the league because he sucks donkey balls as a qb.

You should just ban him. :)

[ShaneFalco]

he didnt even have 50% completion percentage. I thought that was everything to you guys.

[tripp]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2m2 minutes ago
that was his 5th career start. it did not end well. that's all i know about brock at this point.


Where I'm at.

[Northman]

he didnt even have 50% completion percentage. I thought that was everything to you guys.

What team does Tebow start for again? Oh yea... lmao

[ShaneFalco]

What team does Tebow start for again? Oh yea... lmaoEvery team. He plays in the hearts of men.

[Northman]

Every team. He plays in the hearts of men.

If that was the case he failed today so he definitely sucks at that too.

[Mike]

I don't care for how he folded in the second half. I am not on board with paying him more than $9-10 million a year. If he agrees to a team friendly deal then I am ok with letting have more time to develop. Problem with the situation is that it's his contract year.

[Davii]

If that was the case he failed today so he definitely sucks at that too.

He plays in the heads of morons.

[GEM]

You make me hate Tebow with a ******* passion.

[ShaneFalco]

SO funny i forget to laugh! huahuauhau

[Dzone]

Those last 4 passes were as bad as we have seen from a bronco qb in years

[ShaneFalco]

Those last 4 passes were as bad as we have seen from a bronco qb in years

seriously. And the doubled owen daniels....

was terrible.

[Davii]

You make me hate Tebow with a ******* passion.

I truly did like the guy, even bought a jersey, but this. So this. I can't stand Tebow completely because of Falco and fools like him.

[I Eat Staples]

It's hard to be objective through the emotions of the game. I was too high on him after 2 starts, I'm probably too low on him now.

But I have never been a fan of him. Didn't like him at ASU, never impressed me in preseason, and he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me now. People act like he's a rookie, but he's had several years to learn behind the best to ever play the game. I really don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we've seen.

[Davii]

Those last 4 passes were as bad as we have seen from a bronco qb in years

Completely agreed, worst since the day Tebow was traded

[ShaneFalco]

Hope you didnt get an Oz jersey.

[Davii]

It's hard to be objective through the emotions of the game. I was too high on him after 2 starts, I'm probably too low on him now.

But I have never been a fan of him. Didn't like him at ASU, never impressed me in preseason, and he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me now. People act like he's a rookie, but he's had several years to learn behind the best to ever play the game. I really don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we've seen.

I think it is, but probably not franchise qb high.

[ShaneFalco]

It's hard to be objective through the emotions of the game. I was too high on him after 2 starts, I'm probably too low on him now.

But I have never been a fan of him. Didn't like him at ASU, never impressed me in preseason, and he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me now. People act like he's a rookie, but he's had several years to learn behind the best to ever play the game. I really don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we've seen.

3 years is it?

[Davii]

Hope you didnt get an Oz jersey.

**** off, and no, I didn't.

[Northman]

It's hard to be objective through the emotions of the game. I was too high on him after 2 starts, I'm probably too low on him now.

But I have never been a fan of him. Didn't like him at ASU, never impressed me in preseason, and he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me now. People act like he's a rookie, but he's had several years to learn behind the best to ever play the game. I really don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we've seen.

Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 after sitting behind Favre. Come on now, you are not being objective at all. Thats not to say he will be a slam dunk but i dont care who it is no QB with just 5 games is going to look like a pro bowler.

[Valar Morghulis]

It's hard to be objective through the emotions of the game. I was too high on him after 2 starts, I'm probably too low on him now. But I have never been a fan of him. Didn't like him at ASU, never impressed me in preseason, and he doesn't look like a franchise QB to me now. People act like he's a rookie, but he's had several years to learn behind the best to ever play the game. I really don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we've seen.

This reads to me like I wrote it. So well done lol

[tripp]

Kinda at the point as well where I wouldn't be devastated to see Peyton play out the rest of the season, and sign Brock to a middle of the road deal and see what he's got with a full season.

[Valar Morghulis]

Trade up for Connor cook anyone lol


At least this way, Elway got a look at Oz. Get him to ****.

I think Peyton might be getting some pain killing injections in his foot soon

[Dzone]

Osweiller is too damn slow back there. His extra long extremities make him slow getting back to set up and his release is slowwwww. Oz is a stork. You cant get rid of that problem

[Northman]

Trade up for Connor cook anyone lol


At least this way, Elway got a look at Oz. Get him to ****.

I think Peyton might be getting some pain killing injections in his foot soon

Its funny people think the worst QB in the league is the better option. As to Cook, i wouldnt mind drafting him at all but not trading up for him. Denver isnt at that point yet.

[I Eat Staples]

Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 after sitting behind Favre. Come on now, you are not being objective at all. Thats not to say he will be a slam dunk but i dont care who it is no QB with just 5 games is going to look like a pro bowler.

I've just never loved Brock's skillset. And Rodgers looked very good in his first year, regardless of team record.

[Valar Morghulis]

Its funny people think the worst QB in the league is the better option. As to Cook, i wouldnt mind drafting him at all but not trading up for him. Denver isnt at that point yet.

I know what you just said is rational... But right now I am not rational lol....argh

[Northman]

Osweiller is too damn slow back there. His extra long extremities make him slow getting back to set up and his release is slowwwww. Oz is a stork. You cant get rid of that problem

You can if you can fix the line, find a consistent running game, actually make in game adjustments, and have high paid receivers actually catch passes.

[tomjonesrocks]

He's just not a Broncos QB - period.

I'm convinced this is his last year here. JFE won't pay him.

[TimHippo]

One of the biggest issues to me is his mobility (or lack of). I know I always call him the Slow Giant but I'm kind of shocked how truly immobile he is out there. Rothelesberger has better mobility and ability to stand in the pocket to buy time and he's not very mobile or fast.

Os could have had a first down but instead went into a slide 4 yards short in crunch time. There was only one DB there. You are 6-8 just run over the guy for a 1st down. That shows me he is not comfortable running and doesn't have great improvisational skills or awareness and doesn't have that Aaron Rodgers/Brett Farve/Steve Young mobility. (I mention those to because they are guys Osweiler is often compared to because of sitting behind someone for years on the bench). And I really don't see that improving. Only way he can improve is to bulk up to 275 lbs and just Rothelesburer the pass rush to buy time.

And he really gets alot of balls batted down. You would think he is 5-9, not 6-8.

Imma not worried though because next year we will get Drew Brees or Stafford and Os can be backup or go elsewhere if he demands $$$.

[Northman]

I know what you just said is rational... But right now I am not rational lol....argh

I get people are disappointed that we lost but lets be real here, no one really expected us to even be in the game today. In a perfect world Manning would of actually been healthy this year and we wouldnt of needed to put in a inexperienced QB to begin with.

[elsid13]

I don't care for how he folded in the second half. I am not on board with paying him more than $9-10 million a year. If he agrees to a team friendly deal then I am ok with letting have more time to develop. Problem with the situation is that it's his contract year.

You are looking at Nick Foles type of deal at 12 to 14M. That is the going rate.

[Northman]

I've just never loved Brock's skillset. And Rodgers looked very good in his first year, regardless of team record.

Just about every talking head has said Brock has looked good considering and i cant disagree. I think people are very delusional about how Manning actually played this year. We won in spite of Peyton and not because of him. I suppose had we actually lost some of those games maybe people would be a little forgiving on Brock but i guess not. lol

[Dzone]

Osweiller moves like he is in waste deep quicksand and his long windup is Tebow-esque.

[Davii]

Just about every talking head has said Brock has looked good considering and i cant disagree. I think people are very delusional about how Manning actually played this year. We won in spite of Peyton and not because of him. I suppose had we actually lost some of those games maybe people would be a little forgiving on Brock but i guess not. lol

We've lost 2 with both, just saying. 12-4 will still get us the 2 seed.

[DenBronx]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2m2 minutes ago
that was his 5th career start. it did not end well. that's all i know about brock at this point.


Where I'm at.

Could and should of been a much worse game for him. He is very lucky to of had those ints dropped by Pitt.

He's young so I'll give him the benifit of the doubt but I think Manning definitely plays soon. We're not going anywhere anyway this season. Lose to Indy, KC, Oak and Pitt and that equals a team that's not good enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Flame away if you guys want to but id rather have the Broncos from 2 years ago.

[I Eat Staples]

Just about every talking head has said Brock has looked good considering and i cant disagree. I think people are very delusional about how Manning actually played this year. We won in spite of Peyton and not because of him. I suppose had we actually lost some of those games maybe people would be a little forgiving on Brock but i guess not. lol

Talking heads tend to be overly optimistic about all QBs, especially young ones.

No disagreement about Peyton, though. I don't feel we have a QB on our roster who can take us to a Superbowl.

[TimHippo]

Just about every talking head has said Brock has looked good considering and i cant disagree. I think people are very delusional about how Manning actually played this year. We won in spite of Peyton and not because of him. I suppose had we actually lost some of those games maybe people would be a little forgiving on Brock but i guess not. lol

I would rate Kurt Cousins alot higher than Os. Good mobility, accurate, and has always been clutch in crunchtime leading back to Michigan State. Can also run the ZBS.

[Mike]

At this point does it really freaking matter who plays at QB? I don't care.

[Northman]

We've lost 2 with both, just saying. 12-4 will still get us the 2 seed.

Indeed. But i can at least understand losing with a very inexperienced QB vs a future HOF playing like complete ass regardless of reason. Im not expecting a SB championship this year no matter who the QB is, but i can live with at least letting Brock take his lumps with a chance to do it this year. If Manning can get healthy (and thats a big if) than by all means stick him back in. But i would rather watch Brock at this point than watch Manning throw pick 6's every game.

[Davii]

Could and should of been a much worse game for him. He is very lucky to of had those ints dropped by Pitt.

He's young so I'll give him the benifit of the doubt but I think Manning definitely plays soon. We're not going anywhere anyway this season. Lose to Indy, KC, Oak and Pitt and that equals a team that's not good enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Flame away if you guys want to but id rather have the Broncos from 2 years ago.

Dolphins, Chiefs, Packers, Bills. *Pats losses last year. We've got a great D, and a very streaky O. We can get hot and go deep or lose week 1. We shall see.

[Davii]

Indeed. But i can at least understand losing with a very inexperienced QB vs a future HOF playing like complete ass regardless of reason. Im not expecting a SB championship this year no matter who the QB is, but i can live with at least letting Brock take his lumps with a chance to do it this year. If Manning can get healthy (and thats a big if) than by all means stick him back in. But i would rather watch Brock at this point than watch Manning throw pick 6's every game.

Well, all I know is after two weeks of rest he looked damn good against the Pack. He might come back and tear it up. I don't know. Wish I did.

[DenBronx]

Could and should of been a much worse game for him. He is very lucky to of had those ints dropped by Pitt.

He's young so I'll give him the benifit of the doubt but I think Manning definitely plays soon. We're not going anywhere anyway this season. Lose to Indy, KC, Oak and Pitt and that equals a team that's not good enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Flame away if you guys want to but id rather have the Broncos from 2 years ago.

Dolphins, Chiefs, Packers, Bills. *Pats losses last year. We've got a great D, and a very streaky O. We can get hot and go deep or lose week 1. We shall see.


Our offense is severely bipolar but our defense can't give up 33 points like that either. Championship teams play alot better than that.

[Krugan]

Wow, hrmmm a first ballot hall of fame player couldnt get much more production with this offense, but a guy in his FIFTH start is supposed to do better?

Its not just brock that is the problem, its the from the top down, a ******* mess.

[tomjonesrocks]

Shannon Sharpe, say what you want, says he loves adversity because you really know what kind of player a guy is when "the house is on fire".

Brock the last 2 weeks has been beyond defense under these circumstances.

Career backup at best.

[Krugan]

Then Vernon Davis is useless, he gatorarmed a perfectly thrown ball that would have given us a crucial first down.

Not to mention the craptastic miss against the raiders.

Those plays had adversity all over them, and he failed. Might as well toss DT into that same category, along with our coaching staff and management, because well, the house is on fire and they are trying to put it out with short dicks and cant get unzipped.

[NightTerror218]

Shannon Sharpe, say what you want, says he loves adversity because you really know what kind of player a guy is when "the house is on fire".

Brock the last 2 weeks has been beyond defense under these circumstances.

Career backup at best.

People said the same about Cameron newton, had a great 1st year and a couple crappy ones to follow up.

Carr did not have a flashy first year, Dalton did not have a flashy first couple years.

Elway will not give up on oz after a handful of games where he has shredded teams in the first half. Had a come back win against NE. He has shown enough promise. I am laughing at the doom and gloom fans after a couple rough games, where the team Is lights out for half the game. It happens, fix it and move on to the playoffs.

[CrazyHorse]

Can't put all the blame on Osweiler when the offensive line has played so poorly and the play calling has been questionable.

[tomjonesrocks]

Elway will not give up on oz after a handful of games where he has shredded teams in the first half.

We're both talking out our ass, but I'm confident he will. Kicking and screaming? Os shit his pants.

As crass as Elway has been with guys that have actually contributed for the team I just don't see Os getting "long paper" here. Time will tell.

[TimHippo]

People said the same about Cameron newton, had a great 1st year and a couple crappy ones to follow up.

Carr did not have a flashy first year, Dalton did not have a flashy first couple years.

Elway will not give up on oz after a handful of games where he has shredded teams in the first half. Had a come back win against NE. He has shown enough promise. I am laughing at the doom and gloom fans after a couple rough games, where the team Is lights out for half the game. It happens, fix it and move on to the playoffs.

Newton was the number one overall pick. Os is a late 2nd round reach. Not the same.

[silkamilkamonico]

If we let Brock walk, who do we roll with at QB next year?

[tomjonesrocks]

TJ Yates has played better than Brock has for Kubiak in identical circumstances.

#realTalk
#franchiseTJ

[silkamilkamonico]

TJ Yates has played better than Brock has for Kubiak in identical circumstances.

#realTalk
#franchiseTJ

That doesn't say much. The real problem is this f'n guy Kubiak's offense.

[Northman]

TJ Yates has played better than Brock has for Kubiak in identical circumstances.

#realTalk
#franchiseTJ

#realstupid

[tomjonesrocks]

#realstupid

#emmaWatsonIsHot?

[broncobryce]

Brock had 4 touchdowns today, BTW. You could place a little of the blame on him, but not much IMO.

[Davii]

Brock had 4 touchdowns today, BTW. You could place a little of the blame on him, but not much IMO.

How many came in the second half? How many first downs in the 4th quarter? Any interceptions at inopportune times?

[NightTerror218]

Newton was the number one overall pick. Os is a late 2nd round reach. Not the same.

I don't give a rats ass where a QB was drafted. I am talking about how they played. It's apples to apples. Young QB in first starts and early career.

Def the same.

[NightTerror218]

How many came in the second half? How many first downs in the 4th quarter? Any interceptions at inopportune times?

Point is offense scored 24 points. That should win us games. 1 bad int, oh wait big Ben had 1 too.

[Davii]

Point is offense scored 24 points. That should win us games. 1 bad int, oh wait big Ben had 1 too.

We needed 35. It happens.

[silkamilkamonico]

So we let Brock walk, and we roll with Trevor Simian as our QB. That's outstanding.

[NightTerror218]

So we let Brock walk, and we roll with Trevor Simian as our QB. That's outstanding.

Or we draft a late first rounder next year instead of addressing the OL and we get some retreads in offseason FA like Mathis.....oh wait.

[tomjonesrocks]

So we let Brock walk, and we roll with Trevor Simian as our QB. That's outstanding.

You don't get bogged down paying a guy like Alex Smith.

Fine by me.

[TimHippo]

I don't give a rats ass where a QB was drafted. I am talking about how they played. It's apples to apples. Young QB in first starts and early career.

Def the same.

He's not young, Steve.
Os has been in the league for 4 years.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Tom-

Do you see what you've done? Now TimHippo is running around in here crapping all over the place like he's the resident qb whisperer.

[Davii]

Tom-

Do you see what you've done? Now TimHippo is running around in here crapping all over the place like he's the resident qb whisperer.

:lol:

[NightTerror218]

He's not young, Steve.
Os has been in the league for 4 years.

Oh I am sorry I must have missed the 4 years worth of starts under his belt sometime in between Manning setting all the QB records.

[Dzone]

So we let Brock walk, and we roll with Trevor Simian as our QB. That's outstanding.

Thats right. Brock is too tall to be any good. He is Dan Maguire part 2. Siemien looked great in that kneel down. Thats what we need in a qb

[Rick]

I really doubt at this point Brock will cost 12 million per.

He has played well at times but has not shown yet that he is a franchise guy.

No-one is going to give him 12 million after 2 straight games where we failed to score a single point in the second half.

Personally I would try and sign him to a 2 year deal, and bring someone in to compete with him.

[Northman]

Someone will pay him 12 mil easily. Its the nature of the beast when you have teams out there (Cowboys for instance) that have no QB's whatsoever. If by chance Denver isnt satisfied after 5 or 7 games this year that Brock is worth keeping then they can let him walk and then we can draft a guy, let him play for a handful of games and then rinse and repeat until we find a QB that can win without any help and doesnt need experience.

[Rick]

Someone will pay him 12 mil easily. Its the nature of the beast when you have teams out there (Cowboys for instance) that have no QB's whatsoever. If by chance Denver isnt satisfied after 5 or 7 games this year that Brock is worth keeping then they can let him walk and then we can draft a guy, let him play for a handful of games and then rinse and repeat until we find a QB that can win without any help and doesnt need experience.

I am not sure I agree on this, at this point. maybe later if he shows more before the end of the year.

I see no reason for one of the teams you mentioned to pay 12 mill to a QB who hasn't shown enough yet. Potential? Yes, but do you spend 12 million on potential or just do the same thing we may do, and look for that potential in the draft at a smaller price tag?

It would be one thing if he had played lights out in every game, or most games, but that isn't the case.

I don't think anyone can really say yet if Brock will be a good, consistent starting QB in the league.

[Foochacho]

Brock passes the eye test to me. He shook off quite a few sacks and got the ball out. One was for an interception but ben had one too. All qbs shit the bed now and then.

What I see is a qb who can extend plays and get the ball downfield quick. Accuracy isnt as bad as some suggest. What I am seeing is bad routes. Our recievers are not getting seperstion or comong back to the ball when needed. Demarius still refuses to lay out for a catch. I think he had a couple he could of tried to. It's not a bad throw it is throwing your reciever open where only he can get it. He seems to hit most open recievers when they have seperation.

The second half I didn't see anyone getting open. He also had less time to throw the pocket was closing quicker. It seems like tge second half woes could be more to lazy recievers and linemen.

This is what i am seeing. Brock cones out hot in the first half when every one is giving 100 %. When your recievers run half assed routes and you half less time to throw you are going to force some things and lose confidence on where to throw it. How our recievers couldnt get seperation against tgat secondary is baffling.

And as far as the defence goes. Backup safeties against big ben is a nightmare. Harris needs help over the top with brown stewart and ward msy have out a stop to that ass whooping. We better win out and get that bye because we need the rest.

[Foochacho]

Alot of qbs pass the eye test in this league. All i am saying is he is worth a contract and a chance. What other option is there. It would be stupid to trade up for an unproven qb. We have to ride the brock train for next year. Fix the oline and get demaryius' head out of his ass. We might be alright at that point.

[gregbroncs]

the team gets out coached in the 2nd half of the game, for the 2nd or 3rd week in a row and it's all on the QB who is starting his 5th game? I don't get it.

[UnderArmour]

2 weeks in a row, Vernon Davis drops a critical first down ball and costs us the game. When Demaryius and Vernon step up and start making those big time catches, the offense will start rolling. I wish the coaching staff would just bench Demaryius for Latimer at this point, because at least Latimer is going to fight tooth and nail for the ball and not drop it. I don't blame this on Brock.

[Mike]

2 weeks in a row, Vernon Davis drops a critical first down ball and costs us the game. When Demaryius and Vernon step up and start making those big time catches, the offense will start rolling. I wish the coaching staff would just bench Demaryius for Latimer at this point, because at least Latimer is going to fight tooth and nail for the ball and not drop it. I don't blame this on Brock.

I agree. This loss isn't on Brock. It is on the coaching staff....again. Brock still needs time, but it has to be at the right price, because there still are a lot of questions about him.

[BroncoJoe]

Perfect QB rating the 1st half.

Clearly didn't do well in the 2nd, but it's not all on Brock. There were completions to be had, and or receivers shit the bed. Again.

[gregbroncs]

Perfect QB rating the 1st half.

Clearly didn't do well in the 2nd, but it's not all on Brock. There were completions to be had, and or receivers shit the bed. Again.I'm so sick of watching our WR's stand still or move away from the ball while it's on the way to them. Meanwhile the defender is going to the ball and batting it down before it gets to the receiver.

[weazel]

Brock and Sanders are the only thing holding that pathetic offense together. This has to be a joke TJR

[Dreadnought]

2 weeks in a row, Vernon Davis drops a critical first down ball and costs us the game. When Demaryius and Vernon step up and start making those big time catches, the offense will start rolling. I wish the coaching staff would just bench Demaryius for Latimer at this point, because at least Latimer is going to fight tooth and nail for the ball and not drop it. I don't blame this on Brock.

I don't ever want to watch Vernon Davis suit up for the Broncos again.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This has always been one of the knocks on Kubiak and Shannahan. They would start strong with their scripted plays and then crap the bed in the 2nd half, not being able to make adjustments.

But honestly, how many here really expected to beat the Steelers. I chalked this up to a loss about 4 weeks ago. We will win out and finish 12-4. We'll get a first round bye and then face the Steelers or the Chiefs at home.

[Northman]

Brock passes the eye test to me. He shook off quite a few sacks and got the ball out. One was for an interception but ben had one too. All qbs shit the bed now and then.

What I see is a qb who can extend plays and get the ball downfield quick. Accuracy isnt as bad as some suggest. What I am seeing is bad routes. Our recievers are not getting seperstion or comong back to the ball when needed. Demarius still refuses to lay out for a catch. I think he had a couple he could of tried to. It's not a bad throw it is throwing your reciever open where only he can get it. He seems to hit most open recievers when they have seperation.

The second half I didn't see anyone getting open. He also had less time to throw the pocket was closing quicker. It seems like tge second half woes could be more to lazy recievers and linemen.

This is what i am seeing. Brock cones out hot in the first half when every one is giving 100 %. When your recievers run half assed routes and you half less time to throw you are going to force some things and lose confidence on where to throw it. How our recievers couldnt get seperation against tgat secondary is baffling.

And as far as the defence goes. Backup safeties against big ben is a nightmare. Harris needs help over the top with brown stewart and ward msy have out a stop to that ass whooping. We better win out and get that bye because we need the rest.

Great post and on the money.

[Northman]

Perfect QB rating the 1st half.

Clearly didn't do well in the 2nd, but it's not all on Brock. There were completions to be had, and or receivers shit the bed. Again.

I forget who it was (i think Bryant) who was tangled up with one of our defenders fighting for the ball and won. I dont think ive ever seen DT fight for a ball since he's been in Denver. :tsk:

[Northman]

I don't ever want to watch Vernon Davis suit up for the Broncos again.

Its incredibly sad because i thought he could ignite this offense. But with 2 critical drops the guy is a scrub and needs to go.....

[Northman]

This has always been one of the knocks on Kubiak and Shannahan. They would start strong with their scripted plays and then crap the bed in the 2nd half, not being able to make adjustments.

But honestly, how many here really expected to beat the Steelers. I chalked this up to a loss about 4 weeks ago. We will win out and finish 12-4. We'll get a first round bye and then face the Steelers or the Chiefs at home.

Would be nice if it plays out that way but the 2nd half collapses are troublesome. This is really 2 weeks in a row that we should of won these games and let them slip away.

[Dreadnought]

Its incredibly sad because i thought he could ignite this offense. But with 2 critical drops the guy is a scrub and needs to go.....

A washed-up stiff. Davis once had an attitude problem and questionable work ethic, but had freakish natural ability. Now he is old and hurt. I don't think he is an asset anymore.

[weazel]

I don't ever want to watch Vernon Davis suit up for the Broncos again.

sadly, I agree. I have always been a Davis fan but he is done. had a good career though

[Davii]

sadly, I agree. I have always been a Davis fan but he is done. had a good career though

He sure manages to get wide open.... He just then drops the perfectly thrown ball...

[weazel]

He sure manages to get wide open.... He just then drops the perfectly thrown ball...

I think his career went downhill the day he got tackled by his junk.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgFRvDDI7go

[Northman]

By the dirty Rams no less.

[gregbroncs]

I don't ever want to watch Vernon Davis suit up for the Broncos again.He should have been cut before getting on the plane home.

[EastCoastBronco]

He should have been cut before getting on the plane home.

Using that line of thought, Demarius Thomas should have had to take a bus home.
I'm so done with that guy and his lazy ass, don't give a ****, money's in the bank attitude.

[weazel]

Using that line of thought, Demarius Thomas should have had to take a bus home.
I'm so done with that guy and his lazy ass, don't give a ****, money's in the bank attitude.

it really is hard to watch. I can't believe he leads the league in drops.

[Valar Morghulis]

it really is hard to watch. I can't believe he leads the league in drops.

I can, it's one of the reasons I did not want to pay him last year.

The dude could not catch chlamydia in a back alley brothel

[weazel]

I can, it's one of the reasons I did not want to pay him last year.

The dude could not catch chlamydia in a back alley brothel

:drum:

[arapaho2]

letting brock walk because our oline is hideous, because our coaches get outclassed and coached in the second half and cant establish a run game to support him ...is stupid
I think people are expecting a qb with very little time taking live snaps, in a new system to magically light shit up is retarded

here are four probowl qbs stats in their first five starts and we throw brocks in there as well since he is so dam terrible it shouldn't be hard to see his ...right

1. 843 yards,.... 168.6 ypg,...... 5 tds,..... 4 ints
2. 1274 yards,... 254.8 ypg,..... 8 tds,..... 4 ints
3. 1290 yards,... 258 ypg,..... 7 tds,....... 3ints...
4. 1064 yards,.... 204.6ypg.....7 tds,.....3ints
5. 1023 yards.....204.6 ypg.....7tds.....4ints


now which one is the qb we should cut after 5 starts

[BroncoJoe]

Not only has he only had 5 starts, he rarely got significant snaps during training camp and in-season practices during the 4 years he's been here.

[weazel]

Cut everyone and start over with high school kids!

[arapaho2]

that's true until kub got here Oz never got 1st team reps in camp or practice...and this year only got Wednesdays until manning was benched

[BORDERLINE]

Brock needs more reps more games. Better WR play than this garbage DT is coming on the field with. Is he a franchise QB I don't know but we should not pay him so we can find out. Also he's been with us for 4 years if the coaching staff can't tell you he's ready then he isn't ready. Which is a same. Rodgers day behind Farve for the longest and made use of all of it. I hope that's how it's going to be in Denver for Brock. Unless we can get a seasoned vet like Flacco or Ryan to come here than I say we keep him and try to find a diamond in the ruff.

[arapaho2]

Brock needs more reps more games. Better WR play than this garbage DT is coming on the field with. Is he a franchise QB I don't know but we should not pay him so we can find out. Also he's been with us for 4 years if the coaching staff can't tell you he's ready then he isn't ready. Which is a same. Rodgers day behind Farve for the longest and made use of all of it. I hope that's how it's going to be in Denver for Brock. Unless we can get a seasoned vet like Flacco or Ryan to come here than I say we keep him and try to find a diamond in the ruff.


Rodgers a 1st rnd pick sat behind favre for three seasons

his first five starts

1274 yards....254ypg...8 tds...4 ints

oz five starts
1290 yards....258ypg...7 tds...3 ints

[Northman]

Rodgers a 1st rnd pick sat behind favre for three seasons

his first five starts

1274 yards....254ypg...8 tds...4 ints

oz five starts
1290 yards....258ypg...7 tds...3 ints

Thats not counting that the Packers also went 6-10 his first season as a starter. Doesnt mean that Brock would of lead this team to a 10-4 record but its not like Rodgers was winning ballgames is his first year either.

[weazel]

Rodgers a 1st rnd pick sat behind favre for three seasons

his first five starts

1274 yards....254ypg...8 tds...4 ints

oz five starts
1290 yards....258ypg...7 tds...3 ints

Brock needs to be stoned to death.

[BroncoJoe]

Brock needs to be stoned to death.

Did TJR steal your login?

[weazel]

Did TJR steal your login?

just my heart

[silkamilkamonico]

Can't imagine he won't be back in Denver. Doesn't mean he is our future QB but I'm sure they will work out a deal that will benefit both Brock and the Broncos.

He's going to have to learn to go through his progrssions though. Right now he's a one read QB and that isn't a good thing.

[BroncoJoe]

Can't imagine he won't be back in Denver. Doesn't mean he is our future QB but I'm sure they will work out a deal that will benefit both Brock and the Broncos.

He's going to have to learn to go through his progrssions though. Right now he's a one read QB and that isn't a good thing.

That comes with time under center in live action.

[Bronco4ever]

Brock needs to be stoned to death.

:laugh:

[Northman]

Can't imagine he won't be back in Denver. Doesn't mean he is our future QB but I'm sure they will work out a deal that will benefit both Brock and the Broncos.

He's going to have to learn to go through his progrssions though. Right now he's a one read QB and that isn't a good thing.

Yea, i havent gotten any inclination that Brock will try to rape the Broncos and that Denver wont short change him either. Im sure they will work something out with also taking precautions to make sure either a vet or a another young QB is drafted in case he doesnt work out.

[elsid13]

Yea, i havent gotten any inclination that Brock will try to rape the Broncos and that Denver wont short change him either. Im sure they will work something out with also taking precautions to make sure either a vet or a another young QB is drafted in case he doesnt work out.

I expect something similar to the Nick Foles deal - 3 years about $13M

[tomjonesrocks]

I expect something similar to the Nick Foles deal - 3 years about $13M

If they got him that cheap (meaning 4.3M per) it would be hard to complain.

But since the last time we saw him he was -shitting his pants- in spectacular fashion I'd see giving him even going rate as too much.

Would rather go 2-14 for a season and get an elite talent in the draft.

[LawDog]

If they got him that cheap (meaning 4.3M per) it would be hard to complain.

But since the last time we saw him he was -shitting his pants- in spectacular fashion I'd see giving him even going rate as too much.

Would rather go 2-14 for a season and get an elite talent in the draft.

Even Foles is getting 13M per year (not 13 over 3 years... good grief). Bradford is next highest at around 14/yr. Every other starter (or former starter Kap at 19M!!!) is between 16 and 22 per year.

Some in this thread are being completely unrealistic about what a QB makes on a second contract. Brock will get a decent number (under 15) but it will either be stuffed with performance adds or be only two years or so.

[Slick]

If they got him that cheap (meaning 4.3M per) it would be hard to complain.

But since the last time we saw him he was -shitting his pants- in spectacular fashion I'd see giving him even going rate as too much.

Would rather go 2-14 for a season and get an elite talent in the draft.

Remember when Denver made Rodgers shit his pants? Denver's D held Rodgers to under 100 yards passing. It happens to the best of them when the pass rush is in their face and their receivers aren't getting open.

[tomjonesrocks]

Remember when Denver made Rodgers shit his pants? Denver's D held Rodgers to under 100 yards passing. It happens to the best of them when the pass rush is in their face and their receivers aren't getting open.

Not even vaguely close to an apples-apples comparison. None.

[I Eat Staples]

Even Foles is getting 13M per year (not 13 over 3 years... good grief). Bradford is next highest at around 14/yr. Every other starter (or former starter Kap at 19M!!!) is between 16 and 22 per year.

Some in this thread are being completely unrealistic about what a QB makes on a second contract. Brock will get a decent number (under 15) but it will either be stuffed with performance adds or be only two years or so.

And none of them are worth it. Just because other teams sign bad contracts doesn't mean we have to. 13 million for Foles, what a joke.

[ChairmanBron]

Not only has he only had 5 starts, he rarely got significant snaps during training camp and in-season practices during the 4 years he's been here.

Yeah I just don't get why people are so down on Brock. He turned 25 years old recently, has a ton of potential and is still learning on the job.
You include his 15 college starts to the 5 NFL starts he has, the dude has a starting experience of only 20 games. Compare that to other QBs in the league. We drafted him, we should develop him further.

[Northman]

Yeah I just don't get why people are so down on Brock. He turned 25 years old recently, has a ton of potential and is still learning on the job.
You include his 15 college starts to the 5 NFL starts he has, the dude has a starting experience of only 20 games. Compare that to other QBs in the league. We drafted him, we should develop him further.

At the very least give him a full year. I mean we gave Tebow a full year and a handful of games for christ sake the least we can do is give Brock the same.

[Valar Morghulis]

At the very least give him a full year. I mean we gave Tebow a full year and a handful of games for christ sake the least we can do is give Brock the same.

Actually this makes so much sense. Sooooo much.

North, I think I might be rational again. Thanks dude!!!!!

[weazel]

anyone blaming Brock for the losses either didn't watch the games or watched them on a mix of heroin and bath salts

[Mike]

At the very least give him a full year. I mean we gave Tebow a full year and a handful of games for christ sake the least we can do is give Brock the same.

The problem is that there is no way his agent agrees to a one year deal. Doubtful they agree to a two year deal either. That's why Elway has to play it smart here. I just don't see how you commit that much money to a possible back-up. Maybe if they link the contract to performance? But I doubt his agent agrees to that either.

I like Brock, but I haven't seen enough to want the Broncos to commit a lot of money to him for 3-5 years. It sucks that it's his last year and we have to make this decision now.

[BroncoJoe]

At the very least give him a full year. I mean we gave Tebow a full year and a handful of games for christ sake the least we can do is give Brock the same.

Tebow didn't get a full year as the starter, did he?

[weazel]

Tebow didn't get a full year as the starter, did he?

and countless tryouts with other teams... simply for being a nice guy that can't play QB

[Northman]

Tebow didn't get a full year as the starter, did he?

I think he had 3 games in 2010 and 11 in 2011. So pretty close to full season not including games where he came in a different times.

[Northman]

The problem is that there is no way his agent agrees to a one year deal. Doubtful they agree to a two year deal either. That's why Elway has to play it smart here. I just don't see how you commit that much money to a possible back-up. Maybe if they link the contract to performance? But I doubt his agent agrees to that either.

I like Brock, but I haven't seen enough to want the Broncos to commit a lot of money to him for 3-5 years. It sucks that it's his last year and we have to make this decision now.

Well, here's my question to you. What do you do? Draft a guy next year who is even more of an unknown? Sign a vet with a heavy contract like Brees? Sign a vet who is middle of the road like Stafford? While i agree that the timing sucks (probably why Denver should of let Manning walk after last year) what if Brock goes and lights it up for another team down the road? To me, its a risk either way and i really dont want to sign Brees because of the price tag that will come with it. I would probably be ok with Stafford but i am concerned about his inconsistency at QB at this stage of his career. If Denver drafts another guy than thats 3 more years that we have to wait for that QB to learn and get accustomed to the NFL. I seriously doubt that Denver is going to go all in and trade away players and picks to move up in the top 10 of the draft for a QB so what do you suppose they should do? Brock has said that he would take a discount to stay in Denver, i dont know what that means ultimately but at least it shows that Brock is willing to negotiate to stay in Denver. I would think that Brock would be thankful that Denver stuck with him enough to let him learn the past 3 years and that Denver would also at least reward him a little bit if he wants to stay. Im just worried that if he leaves he may turn out to be a franchise QB and Denver loses out there. Obviously he may not if we keep him but its a risk anyway you slice it.

[silkamilkamonico]

You don't get bogged down paying a guy like Alex Smith.

Fine by me.

I'm asking what you're alternative is. It's pretty easy to hate on the cdurrent QB when you don't have a clue what direction they should go next year. You think it couldn't get worse than a guy like Brock? Take a look around the NFL.

[weazel]

I'm asking what you're alternative is. It's pretty easy to hate on the cdurrent QB when you don't have a clue what direction they should go next year. You think it couldn't get worse than a guy like Brock? Take a look around the NFL.

but there are always Tom Brady's and Aaron Rodgers' available in the late rounds of the draft, Broncos just aren't trying is all.

[MOtorboat]

Tebow didn't get a full year as the starter, did he?

He started 18 games in a Broncos uniform.

Osweiler is light years better than Tebow. He had two bad games, he needs much more of a chance to prove himself. I hope he's given at minimum the next two years.

[BroncoJoe]

He started 18 games in a Broncos uniform.

Osweiler is light years better than Tebow. He had two bad games, he needs much more of a chance to prove himself. I hope he's given at minimum the next two years.

Are you including preseason games? I'm showing only 14.

8163

[Valar Morghulis]

anyone blaming Brock for the losses either didn't watch the games or watched them on a mix of heroin and bath salts

Mmm bath salts

[arapaho2]

The problem is that there is no way his agent agrees to a one year deal. Doubtful they agree to a two year deal either. That's why Elway has to play it smart here. I just don't see how you commit that much money to a possible back-up. Maybe if they link the contract to performance? But I doubt his agent agrees to that either.

I like Brock, but I haven't seen enough to want the Broncos to commit a lot of money to him for 3-5 years. It sucks that it's his last year and we have to make this decision now.

so because were scared that a guy who as a backup to manning really never took much if any first team snaps in camp or practice until kubs sat manning this year on Wednesdays...and never did anything other then mop up with a minute or two left in a few games over the years...when Manning would agree to leave stats on the field

making our fears ignore his physical skills and abilities show with even a little protection

he has better or as good first 5 games started stats, as Brady, rivers, Rodgers and brees

now im not saying those make Oz a surefire franchise qrtback....but its shows promise considering the adversity he faced getting it...a stout bears defense...the defending world champs...the horrendous pass protection...the pitiful run game that allowed a mere 28 rush yards by the RBs against oak and 62 against the steelers

so we let OZ walk because we scared to pay him , then what? simien ...another rookie in the draft?...the slew of below average team jumping qbs signed only in emergencies like a cassel

or go after crap like kapernick or rg3

fact of the matter is OZ is the best chance to move forward next year

[Nomad]

I expect the Bengals to dial up the pass rush like the Raiders and Steelers did. Brock seems to get rattled easily. Granted the run game is working and can take some of the pressure off of him..

[MOtorboat]

Are you including preseason games? I'm showing only 14.

8163

My bad, 16 games 14 regular season and 2 in the playoffs (I was counting two "GS" for the Jets when he started as an H-back).

Either way, 14, 16 or 18. That really doesn't matter to my point: Osweiler needs a lot more time than five games, especially when he was good in two and decent in a third.

[Rick]

Brock doesn't deserve to be just sent packing, he has shown potential.

He hasn't shown enough for a big deal though or to be simply handed the reigns. I would still hope for more like 8-10 mill and a couple year deal and bring in a vet to compete with him.

[Northman]

Brock doesn't deserve to be just sent packing, he has shown potential.

He hasn't shown enough for a big deal though or to be simply handed the reigns. I would still hope for more like 8-10 mill and a couple year deal and bring in a vet to compete with him.

He will get more than 8-10, if not by Denver someone else will pay him that. If by chance Brock settles for 8-10 im sure there will be some incentive laden parts of his contract. But, if the going rate for a normal starter is 12-15 mil and Denver doesnt want him to walk they will have to fork over the cash to keep him. Either they believe in their investment or they dont but its a risk either way.

[Mike]

so because were scared that a guy who as a backup to manning really never took much if any first team snaps in camp or practice until kubs sat manning this year on Wednesdays...and never did anything other then mop up with a minute or two left in a few games over the years...when Manning would agree to leave stats on the field

making our fears ignore his physical skills and abilities show with even a little protection

he has better or as good first 5 games started stats, as Brady, rivers, Rodgers and brees

now im not saying those make Oz a surefire franchise qrtback....but its shows promise considering the adversity he faced getting it...a stout bears defense...the defending world champs...the horrendous pass protection...the pitiful run game that allowed a mere 28 rush yards by the RBs against oak and 62 against the steelers

so we let OZ walk because we scared to pay him , then what? simien ...another rookie in the draft?...the slew of below average team jumping qbs signed only in emergencies like a cassel

or go after crap like kapernick or rg3

fact of the matter is OZ is the best chance to move forward next year

Not scared...cautious. I like Brock and think he is at the very least serviceable. I would love to see what he can do behind a competent line. I think he stays, I just hope the contract doesn't hurt the Broncos given the unknowns.

And FTR, I like Simien and think that he has more potential than Brock had coming in to the league.

[Rick]

He will get more than 8-10, if not by Denver someone else will pay him that. If by chance Brock settles for 8-10 im sure there will be some incentive laden parts of his contract. But, if the going rate for a normal starter is 12-15 mil and Denver doesnt want him to walk they will have to fork over the cash to keep him. Either they believe in their investment or they dont but its a risk either way.

Incentives I can agree with. I may end up surprised, but I would be surprised to see anyone pay him 12-15 based solely on potential and a small package of games when teams could pay a couple of mil to a rookie based on potential with less risk.

[I Eat Staples]

I wouldn't mind seeing Brock signed. I'm not his biggest fan, but he's shown more good than bad and there's at least a chance he could be a franchise QB.

That said, my biggest fear is 2-3 years of mediocrity. If your QB is awful, it's very easy to just part ways, and your record will probably be bad enough to draft a potential star. If your QB is great, you're probably a contender. But if your QB is mediocre, you're stuck at 8-10 wins every year without ever being a true contender, and it's hard for the team to cut their losses and move on; and if they do, they won't be picking high enough to draft a franchise QB. Just look at guys like Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kirk Cousins...all are "good enough" to be someone's starter, but they'll never win a Superbowl. That's the worst place to be.

If we do stick with Brock going forward, at whatever price, then I hope he's either amazing or terrible. Anything in between puts the franchise in a bad spot.

[Slick]

Not even vaguely close to an apples-apples comparison. None.

I understand being hesitant to give Brock what appears to be the going rate for a proven starter but i thought your comment about him shitting the bed was unfair, and my point was even the best shit the bed from time to time.

[Davii]

I'm confused by this thread. Why let Brock walk? Wouldn't he get more yards running or throwing?

[Northman]

I'm confused by this thread. Why let Brock walk? Wouldn't he get more yards running or throwing?

Well, did you see his run to the endzone vs Pitt? Maybe walking is better. lol

[I Eat Staples]

I'm confused by this thread. Why let Brock walk? Wouldn't he get more yards running or throwing?


Well, did you see his run to the endzone vs Pitt? Maybe walking is better. lol

:lol:

[NightTerror218]

Not scared...cautious. I like Brock and think he is at the very least serviceable. I would love to see what he can do behind a competent line. I think he stays, I just hope the contract doesn't hurt the Broncos given the unknowns.

And FTR, I like Simien and think that he has more potential than Brock had coming in to the league.

Rumors....I said rumors...had it that Brock would have been a 1st round pick if he had waited one more year to go pro. And that year with the lack of good QBS might have good fairly high in the first round.

[NightTrainLayne]

And none of them are worth it. Just because other teams sign bad contracts doesn't mean we have to. 13 million for Foles, what a joke.

LOL. Feel free to ignore the free market at your own peril.

[arapaho2]

Not scared...cautious. I like Brock and think he is at the very least serviceable. I would love to see what he can do behind a competent line. I think he stays, I just hope the contract doesn't hurt the Broncos given the unknowns.

And FTR, I like Simien and think that he has more potential than Brock had coming in to the league.

every contract is an unknown right

[arapaho2]

Rumors....I said rumors...had it that Brock would have been a 1st round pick if he had waited one more year to go pro. And that year with the lack of good QBS might have good fairly high in the first round.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012bosweiler.php
Osweiler has real arm strength and the gun to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is very raw and needs some work. If he goes to a good coaching staff that can develop him for a few years, he could turn into a starter. If Osweiler had returned to Arizona State and had a good season featuring some improvements, he could have been in contention to be a first-round pick in 2013
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012bosweiler.php#YHFcjZwjKKPMgXtp.9 9

[I Eat Staples]

LOL. Feel free to ignore the free market at your own peril.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind signing Brock. But do you really think St. Louis considers Foles money well spent? How about when Seattle signed Flynn? And just look at what Cutler is making...

You don't HAVE to overspend for bad to mediocre players just because other teams do it. In every sport, the most successful teams are usually good at exploiting market inefficiencies while other teams overspend. A great example in the MLB is Kansas City building a championship team through speed, defense, and bullpen while bigger markets continued to pay the inflated market rate for starting pitching and power.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Like I said, I wouldn't mind signing Brock. But do you really think St. Louis considers Foles money well spent? How about when Seattle signed Flynn? And just look at what Cutler is making...

You don't HAVE to overspend for bad to mediocre players just because other teams do it. In every sport, the most successful teams are usually good at exploiting market inefficiencies while other teams overspend. A great example in the MLB is Kansas City building a championship team through speed, defense, and bullpen while bigger markets continued to pay the inflated market rate for starting pitching and power.

Imo, none of those guys have the upside that Brock does, not even close.

[I Eat Staples]

Imo, none of those guys have the upside that Brock does, not even close.

Completely agree. Brock has top-tier physical tools, and unlike Cutler, still has time to reach his potential.

[Northman]

Like I said, I wouldn't mind signing Brock. But do you really think St. Louis considers Foles money well spent? How about when Seattle signed Flynn? And just look at what Cutler is making...

You don't HAVE to overspend for bad to mediocre players just because other teams do it. In every sport, the most successful teams are usually good at exploiting market inefficiencies while other teams overspend. A great example in the MLB is Kansas City building a championship team through speed, defense, and bullpen while bigger markets continued to pay the inflated market rate for starting pitching and power.

You make some valid points but i dont think it applies in every case. I was telling people a couple of years ago that Washington should of turned over the reigns to Cousins and let RGIII walk and now the guy is starting to pan out for them. Flynn failed, i think Foles still has some potential but how many other problems do the Rams have there? The problem is if you dont pay Brock who you going to pay? Again it comes back to whats out there and is it better than what we currently have? Draft picks are unknown, Brees wont be cheap, Stafford is middle of the pack but probably will command a good chunk of money himself. If we go with a young player its going to be a setback because of lack of experience. If we get a vet it will become more costly. So do you continue to invest in the current player you've already invested in or do you scrap everything and begin anew?

[weazel]

the only thing that scares me about Brock is the angle at which the ball comes out of his hand. It has seemed to work so far but maybe that might even be a contributor to some receivers dropping balls ...I don't believe that but who knows?

[NightTerror218]

the only thing that scares me about Brock is the angle at which the ball comes out of his hand. It has seemed to work so far but maybe that might even be a contributor to some receivers dropping balls ...I don't believe that but who knows?

Sometimes he side arms. But I think staring down his WR and DL watching his eyes are able to get a better chance to knock it down. There have been a couple of these that they did replay on his throwing motion and it was perfect but DL just made amazing play to knock down.

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe they should just let Osweiler arm slot be what it's gonna be, he's 6-7 so it's not the end of the world. It negates his height somewhat but the real advantage to being tall is being able to scan the field and that's huge, especially if he ever learns to go through progressions like a Pro.

[arapaho2]

Sometimes he side arms. But I think staring down his WR and DL watching his eyes are able to get a better chance to knock it down. There have been a couple of these that they did replay on his throwing motion and it was perfect but DL just made amazing play to knock down.

I think a lot of his knock downs is because of the blocking...or lack

If the line gets pushed into him it reduces the throwing lanes

[arapaho2]

Maybe they should just let Osweiler arm slot be what it's gonna be, he's 6-7 so it's not the end of the world. It negates his height somewhat but the real advantage to being tall is being able to scan the field and that's huge, especially if he ever learns to go through progressions like a Pro.


I bet if he ever gets a oline that can give him more time he could go thu the progression

Even manning was rushing throws ....and getting them picked

Even his pick against the Steelers. ..the de was on him before he even got set forcing him up in the pocket and throwing as he moved up
that allowed the defense to see where the ball was going and delaying the pass by a couple seconds...had he a bit more time on the initial drop Sanders gets the first down

[Foochacho]

I think a lot of his knock downs is because of the blocking...or lack

If the line gets pushed into him it reduces the throwing lanes

Peyton has had a lot of balls knocked down this year as well. I think you are right, our shitty lineman need to knock these defenders around s little bit. Go for a gut shot when they go up for the ball. If you are a lineman and not taking some dirty jabs you are not doing your job.

[vettesplus]

This has always been one of the knocks on Kubiak and Shannahan. They would start strong with their scripted plays and then crap the bed in the 2nd half, not being able to make adjustments.

But honestly, how many here really expected to beat the Steelers. I chalked this up to a loss about 4 weeks ago. We will win out and finish 12-4. We'll get a first round bye and then face the Steelers or the Chiefs at home.


and the outcome is?.....

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

and the outcome is?.....

In the last 2 minutes Pittsburgh tries to mount a comeback as we are ahead by four points. The deal is sealed on a von Miller strip sack with 1:43 left.:-)

[RebelRocker]

You make some valid points but i dont think it applies in every case. I was telling people a couple of years ago that Washington should of turned over the reigns to Cousins and let RGIII walk and now the guy is starting to pan out for them. Flynn failed, i think Foles still has some potential but how many other problems do the Rams have there? The problem is if you dont pay Brock who you going to pay? Again it comes back to whats out there and is it better than what we currently have? Draft picks are unknown, Brees wont be cheap, Stafford is middle of the pack but probably will command a good chunk of money himself. If we go with a young player its going to be a setback because of lack of experience. If we get a vet it will become more costly. So do you continue to invest in the current player you've already invested in or do you scrap everything and begin anew?

Here's the problem with your logic. You're assuming that we can't find anybody better than Brock for less money whether it's via draft or FA. Let's look at it this way, this team managed to go 7-2 with statistically the WORST QB in the league this season (Manning). Brock came in and has done a solid job, going 3-2 with him. Statistically speaking, Brock has performed better, but not in every area of the game. Although his TD/INT ratio is 2:1 and Manning's is almost 1:2, Osweiler led offenses have stalled in the 2nd half of every game except for NE, scoring only 7 points in those halves. Manning, on the other hand, played his best football this season in the 2nd half when the team needed to come back or seal the victory. Stats mean nothing if you can't put your team in position to win the game when it matters.

As for the "He's young! Give him time!" excuse, yes, he's only 25, but this is his 4th year in the NFL who has learned behind some of the best offensive minds in the game. I've seen many people blame these late game collapses on everything but Osweiler. He's not the biggest problem with those collapses, but he definitely plays a part in it. When people want to blame coaching for not making the proper audibles and adjustments, that goes on Osweiler too. Kubiak said after the NE win that the game winning play was a call that Osweiler audibled to, not something that Kubiak originally called. If Kubiak trusts Osweiler to make those kind of adjustments when a game like that is going on, then clearly he's trusted him to make those same adjustments throughout his stint as the starter.

Yes, the coaching staff needs to make adjustments.

Yes, the offensive line has been atrocious for the majority of the season.

Yes, some of our skill position players need to be more consistent with their play.

But that doesn't give Osweiler a pass for some of the deficiencies. Some of this is on him, too.

Finally, the contract situation. If they want to give him a 1 year, prove it type deal with a 2nd year option for a reasonable price, that's fine. I think he's done enough to certainly warrant that kind of deal, but to say he's going to get 10+ million a year for 3+ years on his next deal is definitely a reach. Unlike Osweiler, Foles started 24 games, led a team to the playoffs and had a Pro Bowl season before he got that contract from the Rams. Osweiler on the other hand, has only started 5(soon to be 6) games, going 3-2. To compare those two on a contract situation seems a bit extreme.

Regardless of who the QB has been this season, what has been the ONE constant that has kept us in EVERY game? Our Defense! To me, the idea of giving Osweiler (or any QB) a big money deal while letting important, PROVEN defensive players like Trevathan, Wolfe, Jackson, Miller, Bruton, etc walk in the process is sickening to me. I think that there needs to be 3 priorities this off-season

1. Retain every possible FA from the defense
2. Fix the O-line
3. Find a long term answer at QB that KUBIAK/ELWAY both agree to bring in.

I don't know if I'll have room in this post, but in my next post, I'm going to lay out all of the QB's that have been successful in the NFL recently and they weren't considered "top notch prospects" coming out of the draft or into free agency.

My point is, this team is 10-4 and is leading the division because of the fantastic play of the defense and underrated play of the Special Teams units. The QB position has not made a significant difference in the W/L record this year, as I laid out in the beginning of this post. You're afraid to take a risk on an "unknown guy" yet we managed to win 10 games with statistically the worst QB in the NFL this year and a 4th year backup that never got significant regular season playing time until recently. To act like we have no option but Osweiler is a bit of a stretch. If you keep this defense dominant and fix the offensive line, this team will be dangerous regardless of the QB.

The irony of this whole post is, I was a huge Osweiler fan when we drafted him LOL. I don't hate the guy, but I'm looking at this objectively. He's been solid, but not spectacular. If they want to bring him back on a 1-2 year prove it deal to compete for the job, fine, but it's a tad ridiculous to assume he's the future just because Elway drafted him.

[RebelRocker]

You make some valid points but i dont think it applies in every case. I was telling people a couple of years ago that Washington should of turned over the reigns to Cousins and let RGIII walk and now the guy is starting to pan out for them. Flynn failed, i think Foles still has some potential but how many other problems do the Rams have there? The problem is if you dont pay Brock who you going to pay? Again it comes back to whats out there and is it better than what we currently have? Draft picks are unknown, Brees wont be cheap, Stafford is middle of the pack but probably will command a good chunk of money himself. If we go with a young player its going to be a setback because of lack of experience. If we get a vet it will become more costly. So do you continue to invest in the current player you've already invested in or do you scrap everything and begin anew?


QB's that have been successful and weren't "Big time guys" when they got the job

Tom Brady- 6th round pick. What did he have as a young player? A great defense, great coaching and enough veteran players on offense to help him.

Russell Wilson- 3rd round pick. What did he have as a young player? Not just a great defense, but maybe the best defense the NFL has seen in 10-15 years, great coaching and enough players on offense to help him.

Andy Dalton- 2nd round pick. What did he have as a young player? Good defense, stable coaching staff and great playmakers around him on offense.

Derek Carr- 2nd round pick. What does he have as a young player? Great playmakers on offense, some great talent on defense, good offensive line and good coaching.

Colin Kaepernick- 2nd round pick. What did he have as a young player? Great coaching, fantastic defense, great talent on offense.

Kirk Cousins- 4th round pick. What did he have as a young player? Good depth and talent throughout the roster and a coach that believed in his abilities.

Drew Brees- 2nd round pick. What did he have as a young player? Good defense, good offensive line and the best RB in the league, at that time.

Should I go on? There's more I can add to this list.

My point is, if you build a strong team, you won't expect a "top notch QB" to carry you all the time. Good, even great, QB's can be found after the 1st round or can be had in FA for a reasonable price. The idea that we're going to give a big time contract to Osweiler or some other FA QB while letting some of our great defensive talent walk is disgusting. Why would you let go of fantastic players knowing what you have in them to make a "maybe he's the guy, I don't know" type player a multi-millionaire many times over? It doesn't make sense.

If we can't re-sign Osweiler this year, then I'm more than confident that Elway will find a proper solution for the position via draft or FA. I'd rather take a QB in the 3rd round knowing he can be great if you give him enough to work with rather than drafting a guy in the 1st round or paying a big money guy when you're not sure he can carry the load himself.

[Cugel]

Time for reality:

#1. The Broncos are going to re-sign Osweiler as their #1 off-season priority. Fans whining about it are not going to change that.

#2. They are going to pay him somewhere between $10-15 Million a year because that's the going rate for starting QBs. The MEDIAN NFL starting QB salary is Tom Brady's $14 M a year. Whether you agree with that or think it's "too much money, blah, blah, blah" is not going to affect anything .They are going to pay him.

#3. The reason why #1 and #2 are true is simple. There are no better options available to the Broncos. Some NFL experts don't believe there is even 1 franchise QB in the entire 2016 draft. Lots of years there isn't one good QB in the draft, like 2006, when the choices were Vince Young, Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler; or 2007 when the QBs were JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn or Kevin Kolb; or 2010 when your choices were Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, or Jimmy Clausen.

#4. Even if there is a QB in this year's draft, the Broncos will be drafting near the bottom of the 1st round and not in the top 3. Most years if there is a decent QB prospect he gets drafted #1 overall, like Cam Newton or perhaps they go 1-2 like Mariota and Winston.

And the point is that NO team that is in a position to draft such a QB will consider trading their pick. That's because 1/2 the teams in the NFL are desperate for a QB and can't find a good one. And the biggest reason teams are drafting in the top 3 is that they haven't got a QB, (or usually a coach or GM or other talent either).

Conclusion: You fans act as though the Broncos selecting a QB is like choosing whether to go on a hot date with Olivia Munn or Katy Perry, and arguing over which one is better, when neither of them, or any other totally hot celebrity would consider you for 1 second.

Beggars can't be choosers. The Broncos have to face the facts. There is no better QB than Brock Osweiler available to them.

Their chances or finding one in the draft are remote, and their chances of landing a really good QB via FA are virtually non-existent.

Having Peyton Manning on the team for the last 4 years has spoiled and blinded Broncos fans to the harsh NFL realities. Most teams in this league not only haven't got a good franchise QB, they are not getting one any time in the reasonable future either.

EX: The Buffalo Bills have a decent team but are simply not competitive in their division because they haven't had a really good QB since Jim Kelly left town back in the 90's.

If Peyton Manning hadn't decided to come here the Broncos would be going on 16 seasons without a really good NFL QB (because Elway would have drafted Brandon Weeden in 2012).

The Broncos have the advantage of having trained Osweiler behind Peyton for 3 1/2 seasons. He might not be great, but at least he's a veteran with some hope of eventually being good. And that is better than the alternative of trying to find a QB in the draft and then throwing him in as a starter his rookie season, or of finding some has-been, never-was QB on the FA scrap heap like Matt Cassel and starting him out of desperation.

[TimHippo]

Time for reality:

#1. The Broncos are going to re-sign Osweiler as their #1 off-season priority. Fans whining about it are not going to change that.

#2. They are going to pay him somewhere between $10-15 Million a year because that's the going rate for starting QBs. The MEDIAN NFL starting QB salary is Tom Brady's $14 M a year. Whether you agree with that or think it's "too much money, blah, blah, blah" is not going to affect anything .They are going to pay him.

#3. The reason why #1 and #2 are true is simple. There are no better options available to the Broncos. Some NFL experts don't believe there is even 1 franchise QB in the entire 2016 draft. Lots of years there isn't one good QB in the draft, like 2006, when the choices were Vince Young, Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler; or 2007 when the QBs were JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn or Kevin Kolb; or 2010 when your choices were Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, or Jimmy Clausen.

#4. Even if there is a QB in this year's draft, the Broncos will be drafting near the bottom of the 1st round and not in the top 3. Most years if there is a decent QB prospect he gets drafted #1 overall, like Cam Newton or perhaps they go 1-2 like Mariota and Winston.

And the point is that NO team that is in a position to draft such a QB will consider trading their pick. That's because 1/2 the teams in the NFL are desperate for a QB and can't find a good one. And the biggest reason teams are drafting in the top 3 is that they haven't got a QB, (or usually a coach or GM or other talent either).

Conclusion: You fans act as though the Broncos selecting a QB is like choosing whether to go on a hot date with Olivia Munn or Katy Perry, and arguing over which one is better, when neither of them, or any other totally hot celebrity would consider you for 1 second.

Beggars can't be choosers. The Broncos have to face the facts. There is no better QB than Brock Osweiler available to them.

Their chances or finding one in the draft are remote, and their chances of landing a really good QB via FA are virtually non-existent.

Having Peyton Manning on the team for the last 4 years has spoiled and blinded Broncos fans to the harsh NFL realities. Most teams in this league not only haven't got a good franchise QB, they are not getting one any time in the reasonable future either.

EX: The Buffalo Bills have a decent team but are simply not competitive in their division because they haven't had a really good QB since Jim Kelly left town back in the 90's.

If Peyton Manning hadn't decided to come here the Broncos would be going on 16 seasons without a really good NFL QB (because Elway would have drafted Brandon Weeden in 2012).

The Broncos have the advantage of having trained Osweiler behind Peyton for 3 1/2 seasons. He might not be great, but at least he's a veteran with some hope of eventually being good. And that is better than the alternative of trying to find a QB in the draft and then throwing him in as a starter his rookie season, or of finding some has-been, never-was QB on the FA scrap heap like Matt Cassel and starting him out of desperation.

I agree.
This is exactly the reason Osweiler is questionable. Like you say most of the time the good QBs are drafted #1 overall or 1 or 2 overall.

This is why Elway will probably move quickly and quielty to get Drew Brees or Stafford. Brees is pretty much gone from New Orleans. There's no way the Saints take on his $30 million cap number.

[Simple Jaded]

Osweiler the No1 offseason priority? Ya sure about that Cugel?

[NightTerror218]

Look at washington. Cousins has struggled early but now with a season worth of starts he has been good during their winning streak. Many QBS struggle with first starts and timing and reading real defenses outside of practice.

People need to stop bitching about 5 damn starts and watch him. Revisit topic after a season worth of starts.

[NightTerror218]

Osweiler the No1 offseason priority? Ya sure about that Cugel?

He will be. Von will be tagged. Wolfe
's agent has been contacted.

[Simple Jaded]

He will be. Von will be tagged. Wolfe
's agent has been contacted.
That's more like it, imo.

[TimHippo]

Look at washington. Cousins has struggled early but now with a season worth of starts he has been good during their winning streak. Many QBS struggle with first starts and timing and reading real defenses outside of practice.

People need to stop bitching about 5 damn starts and watch him. Revisit topic after a season worth of starts.

Cousins has been good for years. Shanhan believed in Cousins for his ZBS so much that he drafted him even though they had given up the farm for RGIII in that same draft.

I mentioned Cousins as a good person to bring in to Denver when he was struggling and people laughed but just shows how fickle some fans are.

[RebelRocker]

Look at washington. Cousins has struggled early but now with a season worth of starts he has been good during their winning streak. Many QBS struggle with first starts and timing and reading real defenses outside of practice.

People need to stop bitching about 5 damn starts and watch him. Revisit topic after a season worth of starts.



Fair enough. I will say this, though.

If you like the thought of giving somebody like Osweiler big money yet don't want to retain all of these guys on defense that have been more proven over time, then you really have no respect as a fan, in my book.

The ONLY reason this team has a winning record today is because of this defense. A defense full of guys that have made big plays consistently and kept us in games. Yet with Osweiler, he's made absolutely no significant difference in the W-L compared to Manning. Despite the shitty stats, Manning was still the QB for a team that started 7-2. Osweiler has gone 3-2 since.


If anything, I think that way of thinking is the reason why we shouldn't re-sign Osweiler to a big money deal. If you keep this defense strong and o-line rebuilt, does it really matter who the QB is? Why spent a bunch a money a guy that you think could maybe be "it" when you have a handful of guys on defense that have proven to be awesome players and have the potential to develop a special defense that can last for many years to come.

Didn't we all learn not too long ago that a great offense isn't worth shit if you don't have a great defense? It's the classic "what will break first" argument and it seems like every time, the defense comes out victorious. Great teams retain their best players, simple as that. Throwing a good chunk of money at a player that you're taking a risk on is not only unwise, but flat out stupid.

Unless Osweiler is willing to take a 1-2 year prove deal for a reasonable rate, let him go, draft a QB, bring in a seasoned vet (Schaub, Jackson, etc) to be the backup/veteran mentor and away we go.

[MOtorboat]

Cousins has been good for years. Shanhan believed in Cousins for his ZBS so much that he drafted him even though they had given up the farm for RGIII in that same draft.

I mentioned Cousins as a good person to bring in to Denver when he was struggling and people laughed but just shows how fickle some fans are.

#buzznothype

Whatever you say, homeslice.

[7DnBrnc53]

Like you say most of the time the good QBs are drafted #1 overall or 2 overall.

Not true. Lot of busts that were top 3 overall the last 17 years, like Tim Couch, Akili Smith, David Carr, Joey Harrington, and JaBustus. And, even others drafted #1 overall like Sam Bradford and Michael Vick really haven't had great careers.

[Northman]

Look at washington. Cousins has struggled early but now with a season worth of starts he has been good during their winning streak. Many QBS struggle with first starts and timing and reading real defenses outside of practice.

People need to stop bitching about 5 damn starts and watch him. Revisit topic after a season worth of starts.


Indeed.

[Northman]

Here's the problem with your logic. You're assuming that we can't find anybody better than Brock for less money whether it's via draft or FA. Let's look at it this way, this team managed to go 7-2 with statistically the WORST QB in the league this season (Manning). Brock came in and has done a solid job, going 3-2 with him. Statistically speaking, Brock has performed better, but not in every area of the game. Although his TD/INT ratio is 2:1 and Manning's is almost 1:2, Osweiler led offenses have stalled in the 2nd half of every game except for NE, scoring only 7 points in those halves. Manning, on the other hand, played his best football this season in the 2nd half when the team needed to come back or seal the victory. Stats mean nothing if you can't put your team in position to win the game when it matters.

As for the "He's young! Give him time!" excuse, yes, he's only 25, but this is his 4th year in the NFL who has learned behind some of the best offensive minds in the game. I've seen many people blame these late game collapses on everything but Osweiler. He's not the biggest problem with those collapses, but he definitely plays a part in it. When people want to blame coaching for not making the proper audibles and adjustments, that goes on Osweiler too. Kubiak said after the NE win that the game winning play was a call that Osweiler audibled to, not something that Kubiak originally called. If Kubiak trusts Osweiler to make those kind of adjustments when a game like that is going on, then clearly he's trusted him to make those same adjustments throughout his stint as the starter.

Yes, the coaching staff needs to make adjustments.

Yes, the offensive line has been atrocious for the majority of the season.

Yes, some of our skill position players need to be more consistent with their play.

But that doesn't give Osweiler a pass for some of the deficiencies. Some of this is on him, too.

Finally, the contract situation. If they want to give him a 1 year, prove it type deal with a 2nd year option for a reasonable price, that's fine. I think he's done enough to certainly warrant that kind of deal, but to say he's going to get 10+ million a year for 3+ years on his next deal is definitely a reach. Unlike Osweiler, Foles started 24 games, led a team to the playoffs and had a Pro Bowl season before he got that contract from the Rams. Osweiler on the other hand, has only started 5(soon to be 6) games, going 3-2. To compare those two on a contract situation seems a bit extreme.

Regardless of who the QB has been this season, what has been the ONE constant that has kept us in EVERY game? Our Defense! To me, the idea of giving Osweiler (or any QB) a big money deal while letting important, PROVEN defensive players like Trevathan, Wolfe, Jackson, Miller, Bruton, etc walk in the process is sickening to me. I think that there needs to be 3 priorities this off-season

1. Retain every possible FA from the defense
2. Fix the O-line
3. Find a long term answer at QB that KUBIAK/ELWAY both agree to bring in.

I don't know if I'll have room in this post, but in my next post, I'm going to lay out all of the QB's that have been successful in the NFL recently and they weren't considered "top notch prospects" coming out of the draft or into free agency.

My point is, this team is 10-4 and is leading the division because of the fantastic play of the defense and underrated play of the Special Teams units. The QB position has not made a significant difference in the W/L record this year, as I laid out in the beginning of this post. You're afraid to take a risk on an "unknown guy" yet we managed to win 10 games with statistically the worst QB in the NFL this year and a 4th year backup that never got significant regular season playing time until recently. To act like we have no option but Osweiler is a bit of a stretch. If you keep this defense dominant and fix the offensive line, this team will be dangerous regardless of the QB.

The irony of this whole post is, I was a huge Osweiler fan when we drafted him LOL. I don't hate the guy, but I'm looking at this objectively. He's been solid, but not spectacular. If they want to bring him back on a 1-2 year prove it deal to compete for the job, fine, but it's a tad ridiculous to assume he's the future just because Elway drafted him.


Wait wait wait..

Who has said that Oz doesnt share some of the blame? Certainly not me. But you cant come out and say you are being "objective" when you are basing everything off 5 games. Elway went 3-2 in his first 5 starts as well and finished the season 4-6. Yes, Brock sat but that is still much different than actually playing in live games. Rodgers sat and went 6-10 his first year as a starter. I agree, the timing SUCKS in terms of what we need to do with Oz's contract and its going to be a risk either way. But i havent said anything about not keeping the defense intact or anything of the like. And jesus Rebel, did you really mention bringing in Schaub? Really? Im the biggest UVA homer on this board and just watched Matt shit himself in Baltimore after shitting himself in Houston. Trust me, Denver should stay CLEAR away from Matt Schaub at this point in his career.

The biggest problem with your "lets just draft someone and hope for the best" is that risk is no different than Oz and probably a bit worse because now you have to wait for that guy to get up to speed. I cant say whether or not Oz will be a all pro or HOF QB in the long run. No one can, but he's done enough in my book to warrant taking a chance on him and right now is certainly a better option than just drafting a rookie.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah.. its FIVE games. I have to try and remind myself of this, as well. It's five friggin games.

Cousins, is NOT a guy you want to start a franchise with. I, personally, think its absurd that his name is brought up above Oz, when you are basically taking a chance with either one of them.

Neither Brees nor Stafford will be hired by Denver. That's just a plain ridiculous notion. Why would Elway do that? That doesn't even make sense.

[BroncoWave]

Neither Brees nor Stafford will be hired by Denver. That's just a plain ridiculous notion. Why would Elway do that? That doesn't even make sense.

If Os walked in free agency I could see us bringing in one of those guys, but that would be the only way.

[Northman]

Yeah.. its FIVE games. I have to try and remind myself of this, as well. It's five friggin games.

Cousins, is NOT a guy you want to start a franchise with. I, personally, think its absurd that his name is brought up above Oz, when you are basically taking a chance with either one of them.

Neither Brees nor Stafford will be hired by Denver. That's just a plain ridiculous notion. Why would Elway do that? That doesn't even make sense.

I agree with most of this BUT to your last sentence i wouldnt put anything above Elway signing Brees or Stafford. I dont see it and i dont think we can afford either one but i never thought i would see Manning in Denver either. Stranger things have happened but i do think Elway is looking to build a team rather than sign higher priced QB's.

[TimHippo]

I agree with most of this BUT to your last sentence i wouldnt put anything above Elway signing Brees or Stafford. I dont see it and i dont think we can afford either one but i never thought i would see Manning in Denver either. Stranger things have happened but i do think Elway is looking to build a team rather than sign higher priced QB's.

Brees can be brought in at a relatively reasonable rate. It's only New Orleans that has the potential 30 million cap number in 2016.

If the Saints cut Brees they are only on the dock for 10 million in cap and then Brees can be signed for whatever price by a new team.

"It is a possibility he is playing his last game in the Superdome," Rapoport said on NFL GameDay Morning on Sunday. "He has a $30 million cap figure for next year, and he's simply not going to play on that.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/27/10669360/drew-brees-new-orleans-saints-contract-depth-issues

[Northman]

Brees can be brought in at a relatively reasonable rate. It's only New Orleans that has the potential 30 million cap number in 2016.

If the Saints cut Brees they are only on the dock for 10 million in cap and then Brees can be signed for whatever price by a new team.

"It is a possibility he is playing his last game in the Superdome," Rapoport said on NFL GameDay Morning on Sunday. "He has a $30 million cap figure for next year, and he's simply not going to play on that.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/27/10669360/drew-brees-new-orleans-saints-contract-depth-issues

Denver paid Manning $100 mil, Brees wont come in much cheaper than that. Someone will pay him a lot of money for his services.

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah.. its FIVE games. I have to try and remind myself of this, as well. It's five friggin games.

Cousins, is NOT a guy you want to start a franchise with. I, personally, think its absurd that his name is brought up above Oz, when you are basically taking a chance with either one of them.

Neither Brees nor Stafford will be hired by Denver. That's just a plain ridiculous notion. Why would Elway do that? That doesn't even make sense.

Agreed, though Elway would be foolish to not jump all over Stafford is he's available, imo.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think and hope Brees will take a team friendly reworked deal next year to stay in New Orleans. I don't want him in Denver. I am not against rentals, especially elite ones, I just don't like his age. The drop off is a steep decline.

I would be happy with Stafford though.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed, though Elway would be foolish to not jump all over Stafford is he's available, imo.

I would think this, too, IF we didn't have Os. We don't know how Os is going to be, but Stafford hasn't been tops in the NFL...he's another Cutler. Tons of talent, top notch arm, but mental mistakes. So if all we had was drafting a QB, then I can see possibly signing a Stafford or Brees. But we WILL sign Oz. Simply signing another gunslinger to take over for the gunslinger that is leaving (ie Manning) seems to be a desperate move...and I don't think Elway is a 'desperate' guy with a desperate franchise.

The difference btweeen now, and before... is that we now have a young QB that seems to have a decent head on his shoulders and a good arm...as opposed to before when all we had was Tebow and a GIANT GIANT need/want to get rid of Tebow. I don't think we have the same "need" to get rid of Oz, at all.

[Ravage!!!]

I think and hope Brees will take a team friendly reworked deal next year to stay in New Orleans. I don't want him in Denver. I am not against rentals, especially elite ones, I just don't like his age. The drop off is a steep decline.

I would be happy with Stafford though.

There are far too many teams in the NFL that are desperate for a QB.

But I th ink it's a very good chance that Brees re-works his contract. Keeps the same amount total, but spreads that cash out to help the team. Brady didn't take a pay cut, he actually increased the guaranteed money by signing his deal.

[TimHippo]

There are far too many teams in the NFL that are desperate for a QB.

But I th ink it's a very good chance that Brees re-works his contract. Keeps the same amount total, but spreads that cash out to help the team. Brady didn't take a pay cut, he actually increased the guaranteed money by signing his deal.

Brees is gonna skip town. Saints aren't interested in winning. Took away one of his best weapons in Jimmy Graham. He can see the writing on the wall. It will be more years of misery for the Saints.

[TimHippo]

I think and hope Brees will take a team friendly reworked deal next year to stay in New Orleans. I don't want him in Denver. I am not against rentals, especially elite ones, I just don't like his age. The drop off is a steep decline.

I would be happy with Stafford though.

I think it will be short term incentive friendly contracts.

Elway likes to hit the home run and Brees will generate instant excitement in the fan base and ticket sales and TV ratings. You would have to think that the Broncos would be super bowl favorites with the same team plus Brees and using the draft and FA to address the Oline.

[Ravage!!!]

Brees is gonna skip town. Saints aren't interested in winning. Took away one of his best weapons in Jimmy Graham. He can see the writing on the wall. It will be more years of misery for the Saints.

ok..

[TimHippo]

ok..

yeah, ok . . .

[aberdien]

I would actually be kinda pissed if we got Brees. I could see Elway bringing in Stafford, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I think Stafford is Cutler but less of a bitch so maybe we'll be a wild card contender every couple of years but that's it.

I would be shocked if we didn't keep the Os train going.

[NightTerror218]

Fair enough. I will say this, though.

If you like the thought of giving somebody like Osweiler big money yet don't want to retain all of these guys on defense that have been more proven over time, then you really have no respect as a fan, in my book.

The ONLY reason this team has a winning record today is because of this defense. A defense full of guys that have made big plays consistently and kept us in games. Yet with Osweiler, he's made absolutely no significant difference in the W-L compared to Manning. Despite the shitty stats, Manning was still the QB for a team that started 7-2. Osweiler has gone 3-2 since.

If anything, I think that way of thinking is the reason why we shouldn't re-sign Osweiler to a big money deal. If you keep this defense strong and o-line rebuilt, does it really matter who the QB is? Why spent a bunch a money a guy that you think could maybe be "it" when you have a handful of guys on defense that have proven to be awesome players and have the potential to develop a special defense that can last for many years to come.

Didn't we all learn not too long ago that a great offense isn't worth shit if you don't have a great defense? It's the classic "what will break first" argument and it seems like every time, the defense comes out victorious. Great teams retain their best players, simple as that. Throwing a good chunk of money at a player that you're taking a risk on is not only unwise, but flat out stupid.

Unless Osweiler is willing to take a 1-2 year prove deal for a reasonable rate, let him go, draft a QB, bring in a seasoned vet (Schaub, Jackson, etc) to be the backup/veteran mentor and away we go.

Don't not give Oz big money eyes give him a prove it deal with big incentives.

Good OL and bad QB means you get the browns. I will pass on that. Oz is better then anything the brown have had. But he is not a problem bowl QB and does not have the starts to earn a Fowler size deal. Stupid QB over spend on players who are no proven. Flynn and Cassel come to mind.

[Ravage!!!]

Don't not give Oz big money eyes give him a prove it deal with big incentives.

Good OL and bad QB means you get the browns. I will pass on that. Oz is better then anything the brown have had. But he is not a problem bowl QB and does not have the starts to earn a Fowler size deal. Stupid QB over spend on players who are no proven. Flynn and Cassel come to mind.

Wow... when you sober up, you will laugh at this post.... I think.

That being said, NO PLAYER is going to just sign a "prove it" deal that relies on incentives when other teams are going to actually pay you money. WHY do people/posters keep thinking that we can "just give him and incentive laden deal"....when the player has NO INCENTIVE to sign that deal? It would be absolutely stupid on his part to do that. So if that is the offer you think will keep him, than you might as well just accept you won't have that QB on your roster and go shopping elsewhere.

[TimHippo]

Don't not give Oz big money eyes give him a prove it deal with big incentives.

Good OL and bad QB means you get the browns. I will pass on that. Oz is better then anything the brown have had. But he is not a problem bowl QB and does not have the starts to earn a Fowler size deal. Stupid QB over spend on players who are no proven. Flynn and Cassel come to mind.

Flynn was 3 years 19.5 million (9 mill gauranteed). That comes out to less than 7 mil a year. And the Seahawks were able to dump him after a year to the Raiders.

[Simple Jaded]

I would think this, too, IF we didn't have Os. We don't know how Os is going to be, but Stafford hasn't been tops in the NFL...he's another Cutler. Tons of talent, top notch arm, but mental mistakes. So if all we had was drafting a QB, then I can see possibly signing a Stafford or Brees. But we WILL sign Oz. Simply signing another gunslinger to take over for the gunslinger that is leaving (ie Manning) seems to be a desperate move...and I don't think Elway is a 'desperate' guy with a desperate franchise.

The difference btweeen now, and before... is that we now have a young QB that seems to have a decent head on his shoulders and a good arm...as opposed to before when all we had was Tebow and a GIANT GIANT need/want to get rid of Tebow. I don't think we have the same "need" to get rid of Oz, at all.
I think we should let the season play out before we put Osweiler anywhere above Stafford, he's nowhere near that level yet. Signing a talent like Stafford is hardly desperate.

[gregbroncs]

I think we should let the season play out before we put Osweiler anywhere above Stafford, he's nowhere near that level yet. Signing a talent like Stafford is hardly desperate.Maybe he's not. However Stafford is a run of the mill average QB. There is no reason for this team to go pay big money for that type of player. He's not great, he's not carrying a team to wins, he's not worth big money. I don't get the love affair of Tim Hippo and other for that guy. Might as well just go sign any old average QB if that's what you want. I'd take my chances with Brock or another young potentially good/bad QB before doing that. Stafford=Alex Smith, Actually I'd take Smith before Stafford he's won more.

[Simple Jaded]

Top 10 QB, easily.

[aberdien]

lol

[arapaho2]

I really don't get the thinking on this board concerning the future

1. We have a promising young qb...with a very good arm...good head, leadership qualities

2. We have expended four years mentoring this an under one of the greatest q bs to ever play

3. Essay has always kept his belief in oz as the future

3. We have a young nucleus of a team...we need oline to finish

4. We have the league's best defense...full of young talent many coming up for contracts
and most people consider the defense the key to staying on top

So why are we scared of paying oz a decent contract and saving money for the defense

Why would we pay another qb a huge salary like brees or stafford preventing us from keeping key defensive players intact

You guys act like oz has been terrible, he hasn't we have lost a few but it's not because of oz..yes he is young, yes he is inexperienced
but you don't overcome that on the bench you fix it with time

[Simple Jaded]

I like Osweiler, but other teams like him too, let this season play. I'm just saying he's not at Staffords level yet, and believe me, if teams would rather have hm over Stafford you better warm up to the possibility of losing him.

[arapaho2]

I like Osweiler, but other teams like him too, let this season play. I'm just saying he's not at Staffords level yet, and believe me, if teams would rather have hm over Stafford you better warm up to the possibility of losing him.

And if teams would rather have oz over a vet like stafford....what's that tell you about his value

You wanna get cheap when it comes to oz because he is inexpirienced...and if you can't get his a a cheap discount then you would rather overpay for a stafford

Don't make sense

[Simple Jaded]

And if teams would rather have oz over a vet like stafford....what's that tell you about his value

You wanna get cheap when it comes to oz because he is inexpirienced...and if you can't get his a a cheap discount then you would rather overpay for a stafford

Don't make sense

That tells me Osweiler just won the SB. The point is GM's and coaches around the league do not share the "run of the mill" opinion of Srafford.

[arapaho2]

That tells me Osweiler just won the SB. The point is GM's and coaches around the league do not share the "run of the mill" opinion of Srafford.

Teams may value stafford, desparet teams, bottom feeders....that does not mean elway would value paying staff or a 100 mill over making oz a reasonable contract and choose to keep what he has started

Signing a stafford or brees all but guarantees we start dismantling our defense

[Simple Jaded]

Bottom feeders?

Wow, it amazes me that people could think so highly of Osweiler and so little of Stafford.

I like Osweiler as much as anyone, if Elway decided to go that route instead I'd be just fine.

This discussion just jumped the shark.

[TimHippo]

That tells me Osweiler just won the SB. The point is GM's and coaches around the league do not share the "run of the mill" opinion of Srafford.

Stafford is like a Carson Palmer except that Stafford hasn't had the devastating injuries that have plagued Palmer's career.

Both had the misfortune of going to horrible organizations (Detroit, Cincinatti/Oakland). Both were number one overall picks, came from big schools (pro style USC and SEC Georgia) have all the tools for a pro style QB, and have put up big numbers.

The comparisons with Jay Cutler are off because Jay was a later pick (11th overall, which means scouts saw holes in his game), came from a smaller school (Vanderbilt) and has always been mentally weak.

Really you are only going to be able to get two types of elite level QBs on the market when you are in the Broncos position. 1) an older elite guy like Manning or Brees 2) a younger guy who is in football purgatory like Carson Palmer or Stafford.

[Simple Jaded]

Carson Palmer is a great comparison, that's assuming the Lions would get rid of him.

Regardless, they'd all would just be keeping the seat warm for when Denver drafts Josh Rosen. Dr Rosen. . .rosen.

[NightTerror218]

Wow... when you sober up, you will laugh at this post.... I think.

That being said, NO PLAYER is going to just sign a "prove it" deal that relies on incentives when other teams are going to actually pay you money. WHY do people/posters keep thinking that we can "just give him and incentive laden deal"....when the player has NO INCENTIVE to sign that deal? It would be absolutely stupid on his part to do that. So if that is the offer you think will keep him, than you might as well just accept you won't have that QB on your roster and go shopping elsewhere.

I didn't say give him a low ball offer. I said incentives. You can give a good contract with incentives times to make it really good. If he got $8 mill a year with chance for $14 mill with incentives. Pro bowl, games started, yards, ect. Plus you give a signing bonus.

You see incentive and think he plays for free. I don't know how you see incentive as a low ball with no guarantees.

I am talking about prove it contract before a big contract.

And no QB desperate team will sell the farm for 6 starts and pay top 5 contract money. Al Davis is dead so those dumb von tracts do the happen any more.

[MOtorboat]

Stafford is like a Carson Palmer except that Stafford hasn't had the devastating injuries that have plagued Palmer's career.

Both had the misfortune of going to horrible organizations (Detroit, Cincinatti/Oakland). Both were number one overall picks, came from big schools (pro style USC and SEC Georgia) have all the tools for a pro style QB, and have put up big numbers.

The comparisons with Jay Cutler are off because Jay was a later pick (11th overall, which means scouts saw holes in his game), came from a smaller school (Vanderbilt) and has always been mentally weak.

Really you are only going to be able to get two types of elite level QBs on the market when you are in the Broncos position. 1) an older elite guy like Manning or Brees 2) a younger guy who is in football purgatory like Carson Palmer or Stafford.

Well, Brees isn't really elite, because he was a second round pick.

[NightTerror218]

Bottom feeders?

Wow, it amazes me that people could think so highly of Osweiler and so little of Stafford.

I like Osweiler as much as anyone, if Elway decided to go that route instead I'd be just fine.

This discussion just jumped the shark.

Stafford is a great gun slinger. And pro bowl caliber QB.

He will be in Detroit long time.

[TimHippo]

Carson Palmer is a great comparison, that's assuming the Lions would get rid of him.

Regardless, they'd all would just be keeping the seat warm for when Denver drafts Josh Rosen. Dr Rosen. . .rosen.

Keller Chryst is my guy. This guy will be the next big thing.

[Simple Jaded]

Keller Chryst is my guy. This guy will be the next big thing.

Chryst went where?

[NightTerror218]

Well, Brees isn't really elite, because he was a second round pick.

He so will no leave NO. They would be idiots to do that rather then build around him and see if they can reduce his cap hit.

[TimHippo]

Well, Brees isn't really elite, because he was a second round pick.

A guy like that has to get on the horse and work his way up to elite. But once he gets there, assuming he's young and injury free, a franchise would not trade him away.

[TimHippo]

Chryst went where?

What do you mean went where?

He will likely be the starting QB for stanford next year. #1 pro style and elite 11 coming out of high school.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article/Is-Keller-Chryst-the-next-great-Stanford-QB-6718663.php

[MOtorboat]

A guy like that has to get on the horse and work his way up to elite. But once he gets there, assuming he's young and injury free, a franchise would not trade him away.

Then why would the Saints let him walk for nothing?

Your logic is incredibly poor and using draft profiles and positioning is hilariously poor analysis.

[Simple Jaded]

What do you mean went where?

He will likely be the starting QB for stanford next year. #1 pro style and elite 11 coming out of high school.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article/Is-Keller-Chryst-the-next-great-Stanford-QB-6718663.php


Yeah, couldn't remember where he went, he's gotta beat out Ryan Burns first.

[TimHippo]

Then why would the Saints let him walk for nothing?

Your logic is incredibly poor and using draft profiles and positioning is hilariously poor analysis.

Uh, cuz he's old Mo. And has a huge cap number for the Saints. You should be happy, the Broncos will have another Purdue Boilermaker like your favorite QB.

[TimHippo]

Yeah, couldn't remember where he went, he's gotta beat out Ryan Burns first.

He was 2nd string behind Hogan this year. And has the job barring injury.

[Simple Jaded]

He was 2nd string behind Hogan this year. And has the job barring injury.

Ok.

[MOtorboat]

Uh, cuz he's old Mo. And has a huge cap number for the Saints. You should be happy, the Broncos will have another Purdue Boilermaker like your favorite QB.

Good luck with your delusions.

[TimHippo]

Good luck with your delusions.

Sure, boat.

[Simple Jaded]

Luck, Hogan, Chryst/Burns.

Must be nice to reload at QB like that.

[Northman]

Maybe he's not. However Stafford is a run of the mill average QB. There is no reason for this team to go pay big money for that type of player. He's not great, he's not carrying a team to wins, he's not worth big money. I don't get the love affair of Tim Hippo and other for that guy. Might as well just go sign any old average QB if that's what you want. I'd take my chances with Brock or another young potentially good/bad QB before doing that. Stafford=Alex Smith, Actually I'd take Smith before Stafford he's won more.

There is some validity to this. Its not like Stafford hasnt had a talented cast around him, he's not playing in Cleveland or anything so right now this is completely accurate .But its also accurate that Oz isnt anywhere near Stafford's average level either. I think Denver will roll the dice with Oz much to the dismay of some Bronco fans but if they do go and grab Stafford i seriously hope they dont overpay him because he isnt elite either.

[Cugel]

Osweiler the No1 offseason priority? Ya sure about that Cugel?

Watch and see. If the Broncos decide they don't want Osweiler some other team will grab him. He will be the #1 FA QB on the market (unless you think Brees is going somewhere which I still don't).

And when has Elway given up on his draft picks? He kept insisting that Michael Schofield was a starting RT in this league - that was even one of the biggest arguments he had with Fox and Adam Gase. They kept insisting that Schofield was worthless and Elway kept talking about how they liked him when they drafted him and the team needed to keep him and "work with him" and use him so they could develop him.

Well, we've seen Schofield and he's worthless, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Elway insisted on giving him another season, and NOT addressing the desperate need for a GOOD RT for the 3rd straight year.

Sound familiar? Elway is going to keep Osweiler because he's shown some signs of potential, along with some rookie struggles.

What we know: He didn't come in and play like a young Tom Brady. And lots of Broncos fans, having the attention span of a gnat, are ready to "move on" already.

Well, I've tried to point out that is just not realistic. Drew Brees is 36 years old, and is he really coming here? To the Kubiak offense? When Kubiak wants to run the ball and then run some more? Did they not just try that with the "Peyton Manning experiment" in this offense?

So, no way in Hell is Brees coming here.

Outside of him is there a FA QB available who would be a better option than Osweiler? No.

I don't think much of Kubiak's offense and I suspect that Broncos fans will get heartily sick of it before another season has passed, if they aren't already, but Elway thinks it's just great. So, we're stuck with Kubiak and his system for another 2 or 3 years until it's proven to be a failure.

Meanwhile, they have to find a veteran QB for a team that is good enough (outside of their putrid OL) to win a championship right now.

Now. NOT 3 years from now after they draft a QB and then he learns how to play in the NFL.

And if they want Osweiler, they are going to pay him starter money, because some other team will sign him otherwise. So, Osweiler it is for $12M a year plus. Like it or lump it, them's the breaks.

[Cugel]

There is some validity to this. Its not like Stafford hasnt had a talented cast around him, he's not playing in Cleveland or anything so right now this is completely accurate .But its also accurate that Oz isnt anywhere near Stafford's average level either. I think Denver will roll the dice with Oz much to the dismay of some Bronco fans but if they do go and grab Stafford i seriously hope they dont overpay him because he isnt elite either.

You do realize that's not happening, right? Matthew Stafford is under contract for $22.5 M this coming year. And the dead cap hit to the Lions would be $11 M. (http://overthecap.com/player/matt-stafford/1060/)

And as for Stafford agreeing to come here, even if such a thing could happen, do you seriously think he's going to say "well, I'm due $22.5 M this year, and the Lions can't even cut or trade me without losing $11 M, but I'm definitely not worth that much, so I'll cut my salary down to $15 just so that Broncos fans can be happy?"

Why do fans talk about things without doing even 20 seconds research to find out if they are remotely plausible?

[Valar Morghulis]

Why do fans talk about things without doing even 20 seconds research to find out if they are remotely plausible?

Your right this is no place for pontificating, wishful or speculative thinking or any other non factual discussion.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
Well, Brees isn't really elite, because he was a second round pick.

I get so tired of reading this. Brees was the #32 pick. There are 32 teams in the NFL, so really Brees was a #1 pick but somebody lost their #1st round pick so he "fell" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

That is not really remotely like Osweiler who was the #57 pick of the draft.

[Cugel]

Your right this is no place for pontificating, wishful or speculative thinking or any other non factual discussion.

Well, I'd sure like a hot date with Katy Perry, but that isn't happening either, so I don't waste everybody's time "speculating", or "pontificating" about it. :coffee:

[Valar Morghulis]

Well, I'd sure like a hot date with Katy Perry, but that isn't happening either, so I don't waste everybody's time "speculating", or "pontificating" about it. :coffee:

Maybe you should. You might enjoy it. Unless you are a Vulcan, in which case I understand.

[MOtorboat]

I get so tired of reading this. Brees was the #32 pick. There are 32 teams in the NFL, so really Brees was a #1 pick but somebody lost their #1st round pick so he "fell" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

That is not really remotely like Osweiler who was the #57 pick of the draft.

That was sarcasm. Your meter is broken.

[SR]

Let Brock walk. So Peyton can start for Denver next season.

[Northman]

Let Brock walk. So Peyton can start for Denver next season.

Ok.

[Ravage!!!]

I get so tired of reading this. Brees was the #32 pick. There are 32 teams in the NFL, so really Brees was a #1 pick but somebody lost their #1st round pick so he "fell" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

That is not really remotely like Osweiler who was the #57 pick of the draft.

No.. he was still a 2nd round pick. San Diego traded the rights to pick Mike Vick in order to get Tomlinson and Brees. Schottenheimer knew his shit.

[Simple Jaded]

Cugel I never said Denver wouldn't resign Osweiler, I just don't think he's a higher priority than Miller.

[TXBRONC]

I'm absolutely boiling and I'd like to and may post the 2nd half numbers the last 2 weeks to add data to the argument - but if we give this guy 12M a season that's a massive mistake.

These last 2 games have been the worst regular season losses in a very long time.

Brock needs to walk. Period.

I don't trust your evaluations of players. You are after all the one complained about Denver drafting Ball instead of Lacy and that fat slob has do exactly what this year?

[Ravage!!!]

Cugel I never said Denver wouldn't resign Osweiler, I just don't think he's a higher priority than Miller.

Hmmm... not sure that's true for a football franchise's perspective.

[Tned]

Cugel I never said Denver wouldn't resign Osweiler, I just don't think he's a higher priority than Miller.

As great as Miller is, QB is far more important than a pass rusher. Is Osweiler the guy? Jury is still out. Except for those 2nd halves, he's looked really good, but it's still a big question mark.

[NightTerror218]

Cugel I never said Denver wouldn't resign Osweiler, I just don't think he's a higher priority than Miller.

Which we have determined will get tagged.

[Tned]

Hmmm... not sure that's true for a football franchise's perspective.

Because you were more efficient with your words, you beat me to it.

[Ziggy]

Brock may or may not be a franchise QB. Von is a franchise pass rusher. You always go with the sure thing. Elway will find a way to keep them both, but Von will be the first priority.

[Ravage!!!]

Brock may or may not be a franchise QB. Von is a franchise pass rusher. You always go with the sure thing. Elway will find a way to keep them both, but Von will be the first priority.

Again.. the QB is the most important player on the field for any franchise. If Elway HAS to choose between signing Os or Miller...he'll sign Os.

[BroncoWave]

Again.. the QB is the most important player on the field for any franchise. If Elway HAS to choose between signing Os or Miller...he'll sign Os.

That would be a hell of a decision to have to make. Glad it's not me who would have to make it.

[Ravage!!!]

That would be a hell of a decision to have to make. Glad it's not me who would have to make it.

Agreed. That would be a bitch. Hopefully Elway doesn't have to make the choice, and can sign both...especially with the uncertainty of any young QB. But you have to roll the dice at the QB position. It's just far tooooo important.

[BroncoWave]

Agreed. That would be a bitch. Hopefully Elway doesn't have to make the choice, and can sign both...especially with the uncertainty of any young QB. But you have to roll the dice at the QB position. It's just far tooooo important.

Yeah, I think he gets both deals done. It might be at the expense of a guy like Jackson or Wolfe, but I can live more with losing one of those guys.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah, I think he gets both deals done. It might be at the expense of a guy like Jackson or Wolfe, but I can live more with losing one of those guys.

Yuck... for years we've been screaming about needing DTs.... the thought of losing either one sucks buttholes.

[aberdien]

I will be disappointed if we can't work something out with Von. Especially since i'm about to buy his damn jersey.

[BroncoWave]

Yuck... for years we've been screaming about needing DTs.... the thought of losing either one sucks buttholes.

It does, but in comparison to losing one of the best pass rushers in the league or a potential franchise QB, it would be the lesser of those evils. Can't afford to pay everyone. Now losing both would totally suck, but I think we will have to keep 1.

[CrazyHorse]

If we let Brock walk, who do we roll with at QB next year?

Peyton Manning?:confused:

[Simple Jaded]

Look, I'm glad Osweiler has been good enough to pause, for some to pause that is, but not even close, imo.

[BroncoWave]

Peyton Manning?:confused:

Ew. No thanks. Don't want to go though another year of inevitable health concerns with the guy.