Kubiak Tips His Hand About Manning's Possible Return To Play

[Cugel]

It was interesting to read between the lines in Kubiak's press conference today. Basically he has stated how he evaluates Manning possibly returning to action this season. What he said is not surprising, but it does confirm that he's going to be cautious in how he evaluates Manning's ability to play:


Asked how he would gauge if Manning is healthy in practice, Kubiak pointed to Manning's condition after the bye week leading up to the Green Bay game on Nov. 1 (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_29269337/peyton-manning-practices-broncos-second-straight-day). Manning completed 22-of-29 passes for a season-high 340 yards.

"I know what I was looking at then, and probably that's what I'm looking for somehow, someway to see that again — see that he's feeling very well again and moving around well," Kubiak said. "I don't know how to describe that to you, but that's probably what I'm looking for the most as we move forward."

The plan remains for Manning to practice the remainder of this week. It has not been announced if will travel with the team to Pittsburgh.

Kubiak, having trusted Peyton's judgment that he could play in the KC game is not going to make that mistake again. He's taking the sceptical approach and demanding to see real evidence that Peyton is fully healed before he would let him play. Since it's wildly unlikely that Peyton could be effective unless he's fully healed, that's a good sign.

Remember that the Green Bay game was right after Denver's bye week. The OL was rested and healed up, and they put on their best performance of the year - giving good protection to Manning and allowing him both room in the pocket to step up and throw, and time to throw. The OL was able to open big holes in the run game, and C.J. and Hillman managed to get 160 yards and 3 rushing TDs to go with Manning's 340 yards passing.

We can't expect that the OL will be at all healed up, since they don't get the week off. But, clearly Kubiak is looking to see Manning as healthy as he was before the Packers game before he would consider starting him against the Bengals.

Of course, IF Brock turns things around and plays great, then they might just decide to continue starting him. But, the offense hasn't scored a TD in 29 straight possessions. Something has to change, and since they can't fire all the OL and get new good ones, and since they don't have any better WRs to replace D.T. or TEs to replace their current ones, the only move they can reasonably make is to change QBs.

At least they have a (potentially) fully healthy Hall of Fame QB sitting on the bench and ready to step in. So goes the thinking at least.

So, Brock is clearly playing for his future this game (at least his future this season).

As for Manning, he had by far his best game of the year after that week rest. He should be fully healed of all his various injured ribs and shoulder, but the real test will be the foot tendon. Is that really 100% or is Peyton trying to get back on the field less than fully healed?

Kubiak wants to see real solid evidence, based on Manning having a full week of practice and no setbacks, before he makes any decision, and won't just trust Peyton's word on this matter.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If he does come back with said mobility hopefully it lasts for more than 1-2 games.

[NightTrainLayne]

I'm glad to hear that Kubiak is looking for that level of execution. If that's what he's looking for, if Manning returns, we should be okay. I.E., a hobbled Manning isn't coming back.

[Cugel]

I'm glad to hear that Kubiak is looking for that level of execution. If that's what he's looking for, if Manning returns, we should be okay. I.E., a hobbled Manning isn't coming back.

I would hope he sticks to that, but if Osweiler struggles against the Steelers, and the team fails to score a TD, there is going to be intense pressure to put Manning in versus the Bengals for the all-important game.

If the Broncos win that game, plus the final against a weak SD team, they get a #2 seed and a bye. If they lose against the Steelers and Bengals, they might not even make the playoffs, even if they beat San Diego. They would be 11-5 and would probably lose the division to KC because of a worse division record (5-1 vs. 4-2).

Then they might not get a wild card depending on how the Steelers and Jets do the rest of the way. Both are 8-5 and could finish 11-5, although the Jets face New England and Buffalo the last 2 games, so their road isn't an easy one.

Probably the Broncos get in, but not necessarily so. They might be the #6 seed which would mean they would have to travel back to KC to play the Chiefs in the first round of the playoffs.

That would not be at all fun.

[TimHippo]

I think you stick with Brock as long as he doesn't fall apart and they lose more games. The longer you can hold out Manning till the playoffs in theory the better for the foot although you could put yourself in a situation where Manning hasn't had a warmup game before he takes the reigns in the playoffs.

Ideally you want Brock to do well enough that you at least avoid the first wildcard week which would give Manning an extra week of rest.

[TimHippo]

If the Broncos win that game, plus the final against a weak SD team, they get a #2 seed and a bye. If they lose against the Steelers and Bengals, they might not even make the playoffs, even if they beat San Diego. They would be 11-5 and would probably lose the division to KC because of a worse division record (5-1 vs. 4-2).

Then they might not get a wild card depending on how the Steelers and Jets do the rest of the way. Both are 8-5 and could finish 11-5, although the Jets face New England and Buffalo the last 2 games, so their road isn't an easy one.

Probably the Broncos get in, but not necessarily so. They might be the #6 seed which would mean they would have to travel back to KC to play the Chiefs in the first round of the playoffs.

That would not be at all fun.

Really, you think an 11-5 team can't even make the wildcard? It seems like at 11-5 you would at least be a lock for the wildcard.

[underrated29]

We will beat KC....We barely lost to them the first time and peyton threw 4 picks!!!! several on our side of the field. The chefs do not scare me.

[OrangeHoof]

Manning will return as soon as the OL is finished getting Ozzie beat up. Simple as that.

[Ravage!!!]

We will beat KC....We barely lost to them the first time and peyton threw 4 picks!!!! several on our side of the field. The chefs do not scare me.

Actually it took us 4 turnovers to beat them the first time, though.

[Poet]

Actually it took us 4 turnovers to beat them the first time, though.

That Charles fumble was something else.

[Northman]

If he does come back with said mobility hopefully it lasts for more than 1-2 games.


Its going to have to otherwise it will be a quick exit from the playoffs.

[Northman]

Actually it took us 4 turnovers to beat them the first time, though.

Yea, in both games turnovers played a huge factor in the wins.

[tripp]

I wonder if Kubes would start Peyton this week if we had Charlie Whitehurst at QB? lol.

[I Eat Staples]

We will beat KC....We barely lost to them the first time and peyton threw 4 picks!!!! several on our side of the field. The chefs do not scare me.

Yeah, KC doesn't scare me one bit. If we lose to them in the playoffs, well we just don't belong there. They aren't a contender.

[SR]

I think you stick with Brock as long as he doesn't fall apart and they lose more games. The longer you can hold out Manning till the playoffs in theory the better for the foot although you could put yourself in a situation where Manning hasn't had a warmup game before he takes the reigns in the playoffs. Ideally you want Brock to do well enough that you at least avoid the first wildcard week which would give Manning an extra week of rest.

Warmup game or not, they playoffs aren't Manning's show pony.

[underrated29]

Actually it took us 4 turnovers to beat them the first time, though.


And they have no Charles now.

[I Eat Staples]

And they have no Charles now.

Damn, now who's gonna win the game for Denver in the 4th quarter.

[Ravage!!!]

And they have no Charles now.

and they've been playing better since he's left.

[BroncoWave]

So Kubes just said that Manning just missed practice today because his foot is sore. If his foot is getting sore after just two practices, there is no way (in my professional medical opinion :D ) that he is healthy enough to actually be playing anytime soon.

[I Eat Staples]

So Kubes just said that Manning just missed practice today because his foot is sore. If his foot is getting sore after just two practices, there is no way (in my professional medical opinion :D ) that he is healthy enough to actually be playing anytime soon.

We've gone 23 straight possessions without an offensive TD. If that doesn't get better against the Steelers, I think Peyton is gonna be a lot less sore next week.

[Cugel]

I hate to agree with I Eat Staples, but he's right. Can you all imagine the angst if Brock struggles, the offense continues to be terrible, they can't run the ball effectively and the Broncos lose at Pittsburgh, BUT Peyton suffers a set-back to his health and is still too unhealthy to start against the Bengals?

What if Brock loses that game and the Broncos have lost 3 straight, and need to win and also get some help to get into the playoffs as a wild-card?

How much pressure would there be to start Peyton against the Chargers then? Immense pressure.

[underrated29]

and they've been playing better since he's left.

They also had a nice easy schedule to play with since he left. We will be fine if we see them again.

[Cugel]

They also had a nice easy schedule to play with since he left. We will be fine if we see them again.

It would be a lot better to play them in the first round than have to travel to Pittsburgh again.

[Ravage!!!]

They also had a nice easy schedule to play with since he left. We will be fine if we see them again.

I respect yoru confidence, but why would we assume we would have an "easier time" with them when we haven't had an "easy time" with them the first two times? We didn't blow them out the first time, we NEEDED 4 turnovers to do it.

So although I don't feel "scared" of the Chiefs, they are playing as well as any oppenent we've faced lately...and we didn't exactly stomp all over a LOUSY SD team, and just got beat by a bad Raiders team. I'm not confident that we will be "fine" against anyone.

[Cugel]

While the Chiefs don't have nearly as much talent as the Steelers or Bengals (or even Jets), they will have won 10 straight by the seasons' end, and any team that played them would be fools to discount them.

They are on a roll like nothing in recent NFL history and there's no reason to think they can't continue to win in the playoffs.

Remember that 3 out of the last 5 SB winners were 10-6 or 9-7 (Packers, Giants and Ravens), and they all backed into the playoffs, mostly looking pretty bad while doing it. The Giants needed a win against the Cowboys on the final week just to get in and the Ravens lost 3 out of their last 4 games.

Winning the SB is mostly about getting hot at the right time, and the Chiefs are white hot right now.

[underrated29]

While the Chiefs don't have nearly as much talent as the Steelers or Bengals (or even Jets), they will have won 10 straight by the seasons' end, and any team that played them would be fools to discount them.

They are on a roll like nothing in recent NFL history and there's no reason to think they can't continue to win in the playoffs.

Remember that 3 out of the last 5 SB winners were 10-6 or 9-7 (Packers, Giants and Ravens), and they all backed into the playoffs, mostly looking pretty bad while doing it. The Giants needed a win against the Cowboys on the final week just to get in and the Ravens lost 3 out of their last 4 games.

Winning the SB is mostly about getting hot at the right time, and the Chiefs are white hot right now.




Every team is.....until they play us.
We will make the playoffs and hopefully, likely the steel plays the pats* and theyll win. We will play houston, jets, chefs or someone and our Dominance run will start. We are 2 weeks or so out from becoming white hot ourselves.

[Ravage!!!]

Every team is.....until they play us.
We will make the playoffs and hopefully, likely the steel plays the pats* and theyll win. We will play houston, jets, chefs or someone and our Dominance run will start. We are 2 weeks or so out from becoming white hot ourselves.

awhhhh... so you've swallowed a new orange pill, and are feeling all fiesty. Gotcha.

[NightTerror218]

We've gone 23 straight possessions without an offensive TD. If that doesn't get better against the Steelers, I think Peyton is gonna be a lot less sore next week.

And that is not all on oz. A couple drops, stuffed or negative runs ays. Those are not Oz fault, it's on the offense. The offense is failing. Talk to the OC. Oz can only do so much, Kubiak sees this on film.

But the defense is keeping g the team in the game therefore Kubiak will tilt towards the defense to make a stand rather then be aggressive. Playing to his team's strengths.

[NightTrainLayne]

The key to us winning any game going forward this season, whether this week, or the last two regular season games, or the playoffs will not hinge on who is playing the QB position.

With our defense, we will be able to be in the game against virtually anyone, even if it's kicking field goals. The key will be the offensive line, and running game. If we can run the ball effectively, either Oz or a health Manning will win games for us. If we are unable to run, our O-Line cannot protect either well enough to dig out the game solely by virtue of the passing game.

[Poet]

But if it's Manning and the arm isn't there they stack the box and it's the same old problems.

If it's Brock it can just stall out because he's a young buck/making mistakes/easy to scheme against/a whole list of problems and potentialities.

I think you guys should give Manning one more shot at it so see what he can do. If he can just moderately threaten a deep pass you guys turn into arguably the scariest team in the league. Especially if you guys can build a lead.

On the other hand, we know that Brock can hit deep passes. I don't think he's been bad at all. It's a brutal scenario for the coaching staff, and it's possible that neither option can yield a SB.

[underrated29]

awhhhh... so you've swallowed a new orange pill, and are feeling all fiesty. Gotcha.



Aqib Talibs words.....the first part anyway.
Yes, I told morpheus to shove the blue pill up his ass. Orange all the way!
It feels good and recommend you try.

[Northman]

But if it's Manning and the arm isn't there they stack the box and it's the same old problems.

If it's Brock it can just stall out because he's a young buck/making mistakes/easy to scheme against/a whole list of problems and potentialities.

I think you guys should give Manning one more shot at it so see what he can do. If he can just moderately threaten a deep pass you guys turn into arguably the scariest team in the league. Especially if you guys can build a lead.

On the other hand, we know that Brock can hit deep passes. I don't think he's been bad at all. It's a brutal scenario for the coaching staff, and it's possible that neither option can yield a SB.


And that was always the crux of it. While Oz could bring some other things to the table he also has a lot of inexperience, etc as you pointed out. It doesnt matter who is at the helm it is going to be a touch road to the playoffs let alone the SB regardless. Personally i would not like to see Manning until the SD game because i want him to be the healthiest as possible if Kubes is going to bring him back into the lineup. But i still think the problems are more than just injuries for Manning but i have no control over who starts so that point is moot. I think Oz has done well considering and can still make passes that Manning cant seem to with any kind of zip on the ball. At this stage its the same thing i said earlier in the year where i would rather see a young guy take his lumps now and hope for the best rather than watch Manning crash and burn and destroy his legacy.

[BroncoJoe]

Honestly, as a Broncos fan, I could care less about Peyton's legacy.

[Ravage!!!]

Honestly, as a Broncos fan, I could care less about Peyton's legacy.

Yeah.. fans have it easy. We don't actually have to deal with the "people" behind the uniforms or in the helmets. We can make some pretty unattached and unemotional decisions. It's easy to do from over here. I don't have to look a guy in the eyes and say... 'tough luck.' I can just type it over the screen.

Elway knows what it's like to be in Manning's shoes. He knows the NFL and the fans will take and take and take...and the moment you can't "give"...they are quick to throw you to the side and root for the back-up. I don't believe Elway is as disconnected as we are.

[Northman]

Honestly, as a Broncos fan, I could care less about Peyton's legacy.

Well, i was trying to be as kosher and polite about it as possible. While i dont view Peyton as an actual Bronco (HOF wise) i would still feel bad if he came back and just stunk it up again. Im clearly ready to move on from his services personally but i know that its not my call what Kubes does in that regard so i wont be surprised if they do bring him back in at some point.

[Ravage!!!]

I do feel that Manning would have done a btter job of keeping Mack out of the back field than Os did, and that experience and expertise, alone, could have been enough to bring a victory. MAYBE. No one can/could possibly know, but I think the inexperience of Os really really showed during that game and dealing with that kind of defensive packages.

[Northman]

I do feel that Manning would have done a btter job of keeping Mack out of the back field than Os did, and that experience and expertise, alone, could have been enough to bring a victory. MAYBE. No one can/could possibly know, but I think the inexperience of Os really really showed during that game and dealing with that kind of defensive packages.

Cant disagree more but as you said we will never truly know. Some of the passes that Oz made i dont think Manning can make which could lead to either Int's or sacks. Some things Manning is able to do well but really none of those things have shown for him outside of the Packer game.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah.. fans have it easy. We don't actually have to deal with the "people" behind the uniforms or in the helmets. We can make some pretty unattached and unemotional decisions. It's easy to do from over here. I don't have to look a guy in the eyes and say... 'tough luck.' I can just type it over the screen.

Elway knows what it's like to be in Manning's shoes. He knows the NFL and the fans will take and take and take...and the moment you can't "give"...they are quick to throw you to the side and root for the back-up. I don't believe Elway is as disconnected as we are.

This might be "cold" and "unattached" of me, but I would hope that John Elway is more concerned with the well-being of the Broncos than he is with pandering to someone's legacy. I'm not saying Elway should just flat out push him out the door with no class or anything, but his #1 job is to do what is best for the team.

And honestly, Elway just doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going to put a guy's legacy above the team. Look at Champ Bailey. When it was clear he was done but still wanted to play, Elway let him go elsewhere.

If Elway sits Peyton down and has an honest conversation with him letting him know that it's best for the franchise if they go forward with Brock, then I don't see any foul there. If Peyton were to have a problem with that, that's on him, not Elway.

[Ravage!!!]

This might be "cold" and "unattached" of me, but I would hope that John Elway is more concerned with the well-being of the Broncos than he is with pandering to someone's legacy. I'm not saying Elway should just flat out push him out the door with no class or anything, but his #1 job is to do what is best for the team.
yeah.. sounds easy, doesn't it?


And honestly, Elway just doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going to put a guy's legacy above the team. Look at Champ Bailey. When it was clear he was done but still wanted to play, Elway let him go elsewhere.

If Elway sits Peyton down and has an honest conversation with him letting him know that it's best for the franchise if they go forward with Brock, then I don't see any foul there. If Peyton were to have a problem with that, that's on him, not Elway.

Sounds so easy when you are sitting here. I mean, we've heard this so many times before.. "I owuld hope Elway would see things exactly as I do and do what's best for the team." Maybe Elway doesn't see that as something that's best for the team. Maybe he sees the film in which Brock was/is making some pretty bad calls, misreads, and or mis audibles. Maybe Elway doesn't want to be the guy that sits Mannign down in the last year of his HoF career? This "surely Elway sees things as I do"... sounds great, as we, as fans...think we always have the right answers as to what is 'best for the team." But maybe Elway has had these conversations with Manning, and MAYBE Elway has promised Manning that he can/would get back into the lineup when health? I don't know, but lets stop with this belief that Elway isn't looking out for the best for the team, and everyone involved, purely because it doesn't go along with YOUr (or mine) personal wants/beliefs. There is a LOT more involved in these decisions than just what the fans think they want. I say "think they want"..because those thoughts change week-to-week.

[BroncoWave]

yeah.. sounds easy, doesn't it?



Sounds so easy when you are sitting here. I mean, we've heard this so many times before.. "I owuld hope Elway would see things exactly as I do and do what's best for the team." Maybe Elway doesn't see that as something that's best for the team. Maybe he sees the film in which Brock was/is making some pretty bad calls, misreads, and or mis audibles. Maybe Elway doesn't want to be the guy that sits Mannign down in the last year of his HoF career? This "surely Elway sees things as I do"... sounds great, as we, as fans...think we always have the right answers as to what is 'best for the team." But maybe Elway has had these conversations with Manning, and MAYBE Elway has promised Manning that he can/would get back into the lineup when health? I don't know, but lets stop with this belief that Elway isn't looking out for the best for the team, and everyone involved, purely because it doesn't go along with YOUr (or mine) personal wants/beliefs. There is a LOT more involved in these decisions than just what the fans think they want. I say "think they want"..because those thoughts change week-to-week.

Elway has forgotten more about the QB position than you or I will ever know. If in his opinion Peyton is who gives the Broncos the best chance to win and he truly believes that, then I would very much hope that's the direction he would go with. I might disagree with that position, but I would hope he is making the decision that he feels is in the best interest of the Broncos.

All I am saying is that I would truly hope he wouldn't put Peyton's legacy over what's best for the team if Elway really feels deep down that Brock would give us a better chance to win.

I've never said or even implied that if Elway does something different than I would do that he's not trying to do what's best for the Broncos. I would never dream to be so arrogant.

[Ravage!!!]

Elway has forgotten more about the QB position than you or I will ever know. If in his opinion Peyton is who gives the Broncos the best chance to win and he truly believes that, then I would very much hope that's the direction he would go with. I might disagree with that position, but I would hope he is making the decision that he feels is in the best interest of the Broncos.

All I am saying is that I would truly hope he wouldn't put Peyton's legacy over what's best for the team if Elway really feels deep down that Brock would give us a better chance to win.

I've never said or even implied that if Elway does something different than I would do that he's not trying to do what's best for the Broncos. I would never dream to be so arrogant.

well, I used those words in a 'general' manner, meaning not only you and I are the ones reading these posts. There are some that just are "sure" that the 'best for the team" is to keep Brock in, no matter what. So, if Elway did something other than that, then he's not looking out for what's best for the team, he's only doing it because of Manning.

On the other side of that same coin, I woudlnt' find it very hard to believe that Elway could/would make a human choice over being a robot and not having any kind of emotional attachment to everyone involved. I would absolutely expect Elway to have a different reverence and different respect for Manning than we, the fans, would have. So, he very well may make a decision based on other things than you and I, would consider to be "the right choice." There are just things involved that you and I are not privy too, and will never understand no matter how much is shared.

[Poet]

I do feel that Manning would have done a btter job of keeping Mack out of the back field than Os did, and that experience and expertise, alone, could have been enough to bring a victory. MAYBE. No one can/could possibly know, but I think the inexperience of Os really really showed during that game and dealing with that kind of defensive packages.

I agree with this.

Is there a possibility though that the changes would be moot because the line was so bad, and that Mack would have still put the smash down on him?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I do feel that Manning would have done a btter job of keeping Mack out of the back field than Os did, and that experience and expertise, alone, could have been enough to bring a victory. MAYBE. No one can/could possibly know, but I think the inexperience of Os really really showed during that game and dealing with that kind of defensive packages.

Don't forget about the 2 picks Manning would have thrown

[BroncoWave]

On the other side of that same coin, I woudlnt' find it very hard to believe that Elway could/would make a human choice over being a robot and not having any kind of emotional attachment to everyone involved. I would absolutely expect Elway to have a different reverence and different respect for Manning than we, the fans, would have. So, he very well may make a decision based on other things than you and I, would consider to be "the right choice." There are just things involved that you and I are not privy too, and will never understand no matter how much is shared.

This is were we disagree. I do think Elway would handle it with the utmost respect and dignity to Manning, because as you said he would definitely have a unique reverence for Manning, but if Elway truly thought Manning didn't have it anymore, I don't think he'd hesitate to move on to Brock.

Again, just my opinion, and neither of us know what goes on behind closed doors, I just have a hard time believing Elway would ever make a move that he didn't think was in the best interest of the Broncos, whether that move be staying with Brock or going with Manning.

[Ravage!!!]

This is were we disagree. I do think Elway would handle it with the utmost respect and dignity to Manning, because as you said he would definitely have a unique reverence for Manning, but if Elway truly thought Manning didn't have it anymore, I don't think he'd hesitate to move on to Brock.

Again, just my opinion, and neither of us know what goes on behind closed doors, I just have a hard time believing Elway would ever make a move that he didn't think was in the best interest of the Broncos, whether that move be staying with Brock or going with Manning.

The main point being is that its just soooo much easier said, from over here as a fan, then over then when you actually have to know people,personally. It's just very simple from here.

There have been many that said "if belicheck had to make the same decision about Brady, he wouldn't hesitate." I call BS. It's just so simple ofr fans to act like robots and expect all GMs and coaches to act the same.

[Ravage!!!]

I agree with this.

Is there a possibility though that the changes would be moot because the line was so bad, and that Mack would have still put the smash down on him?

possibly.. but Manning is good at recognizing blitzes and where they are coming from, most probably getting rid of the ball..even if throw away or too short for a first down..rather than taking a sack.

I'm just throwing differences in Manning and Brock out there. Manning's experience and football intelligence sometimes is overlooked as the advantage that it is.

[NightTerror218]

And that was always the crux of it. While Oz could bring some other things to the table he also has a lot of inexperience, etc as you pointed out. It doesnt matter who is at the helm it is going to be a touch road to the playoffs let alone the SB regardless. Personally i would not like to see Manning until the SD game because i want him to be the healthiest as possible if Kubes is going to bring him back into the lineup. But i still think the problems are more than just injuries for Manning but i have no control over who starts so that point is moot. I think Oz has done well considering and can still make passes that Manning cant seem to with any kind of zip on the ball. At this stage its the same thing i said earlier in the year where i would rather see a young guy take his lumps now and hope for the best rather than watch Manning crash and burn and destroy his legacy.

That's the point of giving him as much time as possible. Let manning g play against the Chargers if you want to evaluate him.

[BroncoWave]

The main point being is that its just soooo much easier said, from over here as a fan, then over then when you actually have to know people,personally. It's just very simple from here.

There have been many that said "if belicheck had to make the same decision about Brady, he wouldn't hesitate." I call BS. It's just so simple ofr fans to act like robots and expect all GMs and coaches to act the same.

I would hope the people who get paid millions of dollars to run teams would be able to make those tough decisions. Maybe I'm being an unrealistic fan and asking too much, but I don't believe that to be the case.

[Ravage!!!]

I would hope the people who get paid millions of dollars to run teams would be able to make those tough decisions. Maybe I'm being an unrealistic fan and asking too much, but I don't believe that to be the case.

Sure.. tough decisions is part of it. But there are LOTs of Million/Billion dollar corporations. I just think that when you have people involved, you will always have emotion involved in those decisions..especially in a business like football. That's not a bad thing. If we didn't have instinct and emotion, then we would simply plug in the numbers and let the computers do the job.

Elway and Manning share a kindred relationship that few around the world could possibly share. Being an NFL HoF QB. There is more to that just spread sheets and emotionless decisions. Will Elway simply say no? Very very possible, but I'm just saying that that kind of decision on a HoF QB that is a legend within the very corporation that has brought them fame and fortune, and completely engulfed their lives..from which they have given their bodies too..... isn't as simple as purely pulling the plug for the young guy just cause he's there.

It's easy for us fans to sit here and make the tough calls. Lets remember that we, the fans, are MUCh more fanatic about the Broncos than the GM or players are. Always will be.

[Mike]

I do feel that Manning would have done a btter job of keeping Mack out of the back field than Os did, and that experience and expertise, alone, could have been enough to bring a victory. MAYBE. No one can/could possibly know, but I think the inexperience of Os really really showed during that game and dealing with that kind of defensive packages.

And if Kubiak pulled his head out and gave Shofield help then Brock has more time. And if receivers who are paid to catch the ball actually catch the damn ball, Denver wins. Manning had multipick games a lot this year, chances are he would continued that against Oakland. It's ridiculous to think that Denver lost because of Osweiller.

Os is a young player. There are going to be growing pains. Giving up on him and running back to a broke-down Manning ain't in the best interest of the Broncos. Cheesedick game plans aren't either. Don't coddle him, give him the offense and let him play.

[Slick]

If we can't post statements about what we think Elway should do or Kubiak should do, Tned might as well shut this place down.

[I Eat Staples]

And that is not all on oz. A couple drops, stuffed or negative runs ays. Those are not Oz fault, it's on the offense. The offense is failing. Talk to the OC. Oz can only do so much, Kubiak sees this on film.

But the defense is keeping g the team in the game therefore Kubiak will tilt towards the defense to make a stand rather then be aggressive. Playing to his team's strengths.

I agree, but I think the biggest problem with the offense is the guy who ultimately will be deciding who starts at QB, and he's not going to blame himself.

[Dapper Dan]

If we can't post statements about what we think Elway should do or Kubiak should do, Tned might as well shut this place down.

I can't confirm but I don't think i've often said what the FO/coaches should do. There's plenty to talk about, imo.

[SR]

They are on a roll like nothing in recent NFL history.

Which is 100% false.

[Davii]

If we can't post statements about what we think Elway should do or Kubiak should do, Tned might as well shut this place down.

I asked, he said no.

[Cugel]

I don't think Elway will have much to say about who plays each week or doesn't play. That is up to Kubiak really. Elway isn't going to interfere to the extent of telling Kubiak to start Manning or to sit him.

Kubiak is going to decide whether to play Manning based on whether he thinks Manning is fully healthy and on how Brock does in the Steelers game. The offense not scoring a TD for nearly 3 games is a concern.

I blame the OL and the WRs somewhat more than Osweiler, but it doesn't matter. They don't have any new OL to put in there and there are no better WRs or TEs they can use either. The one change they can make is to change the QB - so unless the Broncos win the Steelers game, or unless Kubiak doesn't feel Manning is fully ready, then I don't see Brock playing against the Bengals.

[BroncoJoe]

Yeah.. fans have it easy. We don't actually have to deal with the "people" behind the uniforms or in the helmets. We can make some pretty unattached and unemotional decisions. It's easy to do from over here. I don't have to look a guy in the eyes and say... 'tough luck.' I can just type it over the screen.

Elway knows what it's like to be in Manning's shoes. He knows the NFL and the fans will take and take and take...and the moment you can't "give"...they are quick to throw you to the side and root for the back-up. I don't believe Elway is as disconnected as we are.

My comment was taken perhaps too literally. While I care about Manning, the Broncos are more important to me. I believe that to be true with Elway as well. This is as much "his franchise" as it is anyone else.

And, I think many of us have had to look someone in the eye and fire them. It is not an easy thing to do, but sometimes necessary for the good of the company, division, department, etc.

[Poet]

My comment was taken perhaps too literally. While I care about Manning, the Broncos are more important to me. I believe that to be true with Elway as well. This is as much "his franchise" as it is anyone else.

And, I think many of us have had to look someone in the eye and fire them. It is not an easy thing to do, but sometimes necessary for the good of the company, division, department, etc.

I like this post.

[Simple Jaded]

I agree, but I think the biggest problem with the offense is the guy who ultimately will be deciding who starts at QB, and he's not going to blame himself.

Kubiak is the biggest problem? Let me guess, he doesn't run zone read enough?

[Simple Jaded]

possibly.. but Manning is good at recognizing blitzes and where they are coming from, most probably getting rid of the ball..even if throw away or too short for a first down..rather than taking a sack.

I'm just throwing differences in Manning and Brock out there. Manning's experience and football intelligence sometimes is overlooked as the advantage that it is.
It's overlooked because it hasn't been much of an advantage this year, he's going off pre snap reads and getting fooled, the ints he has dont adequately represent the amount of times this has bite him in the Ass this season.

It's overlooked because it should be ignored almost entirely, I think it's because he's not running his offense.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's overlooked because it hasn't been much of an advantage this year, he's going off pre snap reads and getting fooled, the ints he has dont adequately represent the amount of times this has bite him in the Ass this season.

It's overlooked because it should be ignored almost entirely, I think it's because he's not running his offense.

I think it has more to do with his body not being able to do what his mind tells it.

[Simple Jaded]

I think it has more to do with his body not being able to do what his mind tells it.

Perhaps but a lot of his mistakes are just bad decisions.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Perhaps but a lot of his mistakes are just bad decisions.

No argument here-