PLACE THE BLAME RIGHT ON KUBIAK and Dennison

[WARHORSE]

Period.

We should not have lost that game. When are the coaches going to figure out that Mack needed to be doubled......tuesday on film??

Kubiak says, "Let a team hang around, they make a play or two, thats what happens".

Yes. Thank you. We got five o line in and they rush three in must pass situation and we dont double Mack.

UNBELIEVABLE.


UNBELIEVABLE.


If we face the Pats in the playoffs they will coach our jocks up around our necks.



Just discouraging to know what the hell is on the line (HINT:HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE) and we have a football team that loses a game to

a team they dominated.


I cant express the frustration.

[SR]

Revolutionary thoughts here.

[sneakers]

It seemed like they totally gave up on the run in the 3rd quarter.

[Northman]

Plenty of blame to go everywhere yesterday.

[Traveler]

Period.

We should not have lost that game. When are the coaches going to figure out that Mack needed to be doubled......tuesday on film??

Kubiak says, "Let a team hang around, they make a play or two, thats what happens".

Yes. Thank you. We got five o line in and they rush three in must pass situation and we dont double Mack.

UNBELIEVABLE.


UNBELIEVABLE.


If we face the Pats in the playoffs they will coach our jocks up around our necks.



Just discouraging to know what the hell is on the line (HINT:HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE) and we have a football team that loses a game to

a team they dominated.


I cant express the frustration.


Can't disagree with anything said here. Does anyone know if any of the beat reporters put this question to Kubiak? Had a bad feeling in the first half when we kept coming away with FG's.

[BroncoWave]

Period.

We should not have lost that game. When are the coaches going to figure out that Mack needed to be doubled......tuesday on film??

Kubiak says, "Let a team hang around, they make a play or two, thats what happens".

Yes. Thank you. We got five o line in and they rush three in must pass situation and we dont double Mack.

UNBELIEVABLE.


UNBELIEVABLE.


If we face the Pats in the playoffs they will coach our jocks up around our necks.



Just discouraging to know what the hell is on the line (HINT:HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE) and we have a football team that loses a game to

a team they dominated.


I cant express the frustration.

This theory might hold more weight if the same exact coaching staff didn't beat the Patriots literally only two weeks ago. Yeah the coaching staff had a bad game yesterday, but I think it probably had more to do with them not taking Oakland as seriously as maybe they should have. This team just tends to play to the level of their competition. They will get up for the Pats again if they play them in the playoffs.

[Dzone]

Running Hillman up the gut in the red zone. What the hell?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

There was a lot not to like yesterday, but 3 turnovers are the reason we lost. Two critical errors in the punt return game on consecutive possessions sealed the deal.

Sanders is always reliable, so I'll chalk that fumble up in the rare category.

I'm not sure what Hillman was thinking by not fair catching that ball on the 10 yard line. He needs better situational awareness than that. Whether or not it's situational awareness or fear of catching a punt in traffic, we may have seen why Hillman has not been used to return punts the last 3 years. 4 plays later we were giving up 2 points.

[Shazam!]

I don't know why it is such a shock. The Broncos have Matadors on the OLine, and it is a sore spot that we all knew about before the season started. Can't help but feel Elway allowed this to happen and envisioned starting a 40 year old QB with garbage prot.

[tripp]

Brock threw the ball 51 times yesterday. Pretty much all you need to know.

[Mike]

This game reminded me of all the reasons I hated Shanahan's system towards the end of his tenure. God I hate soft red-zone offenses. Not looking forward to Kubiak's run here if we are just getting that old system with less talented players.

[NightTerror218]

This game reminded me of all the reasons I hated Shanahan's system towards the end of his tenure. God I hate soft red-zone offenses. Not looking forward to Kubiak's run here if we are just getting that old system with less talented players.

The way the team has been running there was no reason to think it would fail that bad again st the raiders.

[NightTrainLayne]

Brock threw the ball 51 times yesterday. Pretty much all you need to know.

At halftime, he had thrown 27, and that threw up a big red flag for me. I said to myself, "that isn't what we want to be seeing."

[Mike]

The way the team has been running there was no reason to think it would fail that bad again st the raiders.

I don't think it matters who it is against. Outside of the first drive (supposedly scripted), the system has problems stalling in the red-zone.

[Nomad]

The pity is.....2015 will always be the year the BRONCOS couldn't score an offensive touchdown against the Raiders.

[BroncoJoe]

Schlereth said: "Every field goal we make instead of Touchdowns brings us 3 points closer to a loss."

Such a frustrating loss.

[blamkin86]

Coming back down from the ledge...

... those Football Savants among you - I think it's obvious the running game killed us, again, but what happened here? Wrong play calling? No place to go through the line? Great defense (I know but they looked pretty good to me at the line).

At this moment it looks like the future of this team rides on CJ's back, whomever is tossing the pigskin.

[Krugan]

The play calling was feeble in the red zone. had the ball on the 4, run for nothing(cough as we had all game), then pass twice to dt, who had just re-entered the game after the big hit on his shoulder.

The lack of support for our oline that was getting blasted, just tops it off.

It was a really awful effort.

[artie_dale]

I think this thread's title holds more merit than putting the blame on Osweiller, DT, VD, or Schofield.

I've honestly questioned a few times if our coaching staff is good enough to take this team (with all this talent, injured or not) to The Show. Maybe they deserve a pass because it is their first season with this squad, but I can't but think I see similarities to when this team flops and how the Lakers are being coached (not suggesting Kubes & Co are just as bad, but it seems like they are out of their element during games like the one yesterday).

But, the blame game when injuries are a factor can all be argued in in many different angle. I ultimately blamed John Fox for the way we lost in the playoffs & SB (team was neither prepared or could bounce back after being punched in the face), so to me this starts at that level again.

Also, I do not think Brock is the answer as of right now. A good part of me hopes Peyton gets healthy enough to finish this season strong (I have my doubts though) so he can break Favre's wins record and retire with a better taste in his mouth than the KC game.

In my opinion, Brock got rattled when K. Mack sacked him and ripped his helmet off in the process (2nd qtr). He wasn't the same after that. I could see it in his eyes that he seemed scared in the 3rd & 4th qtr (just my observation).

[silkamilkamonico]

Did Kubiak get outcoached by Del Rio?

Scary thought.

[Northman]

Did Kubiak get outcoached by Del Rio?

Scary thought.


I dont think so to be honest. I think Denver self destructed more than anything. We missed a FG and had a 3 opportunities to a TD with the Brock miss and DT's two drops. That 10 points would of won the game so i think it had very little to do with any fantastic scheme by Del Rio as it was Denver just not executed in the red zone.

[Dapper Dan]

Fire the 10-2 coach. Lawls.

[Dapper Dan]

Schlereth said: "Every field goal we make instead of Touchdowns brings us 3 points closer to a loss."

Such a frustrating loss.

He stole that.

[Krugan]

Whats really sad is, this has got to be the ugliest 10-3 ever.

And winning the division is seriously in doubt, as odd as that sounds.

Its really disappointing to sit here and think of how bad this loss really is.

[Northman]

Whats really sad is, this has got to be the ugliest 10-3 ever.

And winning the division is seriously in doubt, as odd as that sounds.

Its really disappointing to sit here and think of how bad this loss really is.


To be fair, i watched a lot of the Ravens from 2000 and those games werent much prettier to be honest.

[Tned]

This theory might hold more weight if the same exact coaching staff didn't beat the Patriots literally only two weeks ago. Yeah the coaching staff had a bad game yesterday, but I think it probably had more to do with them not taking Oakland as seriously as maybe they should have. This team just tends to play to the level of their competition. They will get up for the Pats again if they play them in the playoffs.

I think the point is that it's hard to understand why they didn't double Mack, go into max protect, or do something.

[Tned]

For the record, while this was an ugly frustrating loss, I love the direction Elway and Kubiak are going with the team.

[silkamilkamonico]

Fire the 10-2 edit: (10-3) coach. Lawls.

I think that's being a little ridiculous. Kubiak's job comfort will be measured by what he does in the postseason.

[Northman]

For the record, while this was an ugly frustrating loss, I love the direction Elway and Kubiak are going with the team.

Ill still hold judgement, in theory i love it but they still have some work to do.

[drewloc]

He stole that.

Actually during the broadcast he did state that it was from someone else, he didn't take credit for it.

I actually laughed when Schlereth said that Schofield pretty much let Mack get into the Pro Bowl by himself. It was clear that he was outmatched the whole game.

[Dapper Dan]

I think that's being a little ridiculous. Kubiak's job comfort will be measured by what he does in the postseason.

Yeah. If he loses in the first game he's done.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

For the record, while this was an ugly frustrating loss, I love the direction Elway and Kubiak are going with the team.

I agree-

It will be good to see what Osweiler can do with a whole offseason with the 1's. He seems to really struggle with progressions once he gets beyond his first read, especially after the scripted plays are done. I remember saying to my son, "once the scripted plays are done he'll probably go 50% the rest of the way."
This was when Brock was 5/5.

[Dapper Dan]

Actually during the broadcast he did state that it was from someone else, he didn't take credit for it.

I actually laughed when Schlereth said that Schofield pretty much let Mack get into the Pro Bowl by himself. It was clear that he was outmatched the whole game.

Figures. BroJoe never tells the whole story.

[tripp]

The way the team has been running there was no reason to think it would fail that bad again st the raiders.

I expected more from Juwan Thompson, but since Ronnie Hillman has been here, we all know what to expect from him. We ALL know he will never be a feature back, I'm fairly positive we didn't draft him to be a feature back. Why was he used on most carries? I'll never know. Especially when running up the middle was going NOWHERE the 1st half.

With some time to reflect on the game, I'm pretty convinced if we want any success this post-season, it will have to come from CJ Anderson. Which is a little worrying as he's had trouble staying relatively healthy during his short career as a Bronco.

[tomjonesrocks]

Schlereth said: "Every field goal we make instead of Touchdowns brings us 3 points closer to a loss." Such a frustrating loss.

Wouldn't it be 4 points closer?

[tripp]

I think that's being a little ridiculous. Kubiak's job comfort will be measured by what he does in the postseason.

What worries me with the Kubiak hiring, ever since I heard he got the job; was his relationship with Elway. I think Kubiak will be here for 5+ years, for better or worse.

Not saying I want him gone, I just think if this team stalls in the next 2 years and something NEEDS to be done, I hope Elway leaves personal feelings behind and does what is right.

[Tned]

What worries me with the Kubiak hiring, ever since I heard he got the job; was his relationship with Elway. I think Kubiak will be here for 5+ years, for better or worse.

Not saying I want him gone, I just think if this team stalls in the next 2 years and something NEEDS to be done, I hope Elway leaves personal feelings behind and does what is right.

I'm ok with that. I think one of the problems in the NFL is the 18-36 month revolving coaching doors. A coach comes in, makes personnel/scheme changes based on his philosophy, then after 1-2 years, when the "change" is underway, he winds up on the hot seat and after 2-3 years, he's fired. Bring in a new coach/philosophy, change personnel/scheme, and then rinse and repeat.

So, I think 4-5 years is about right. With success, hopefully that becomes 10-15 years.

[tripp]

I'm ok with that. I think one of the problems in the NFL is the 18-36 month revolving coaching doors. A coach comes in, makes personnel/scheme changes based on his philosophy, then after 1-2 years, when the "change" is underway, he winds up on the hot seat and after 2-3 years, he's fired. Bring in a new coach/philosophy, change personnel/scheme, and then rinse and repeat.

So, I think 4-5 years is about right. With success, hopefully that becomes 10-15 years.

I agree for the most part. Sometimes you just know the HC isn't a right fit (Josh McD), and then sometimes you just need to give it time. Kubiak has a good system and it's proven. More importantly, Elway knows it works. I'm just a little disappointed in the lack of adjustments that I think could've taken place yesterday, but weren't for some unknown reason.

[Northman]

What worries me with the Kubiak hiring, ever since I heard he got the job; was his relationship with Elway. I think Kubiak will be here for 5+ years, for better or worse.

Not saying I want him gone, I just think if this team stalls in the next 2 years and something NEEDS to be done, I hope Elway leaves personal feelings behind and does what is right.

So far Elway has not done anything that would suggest he would keep a losing coach in Denver. Fox had a pretty good record (albeit through Manning) in Denver and was cut loose so im pretty sure Kubiak knows the score of whats expected in Denver.

[Tned]

I agree for the most part. Sometimes you just know the HC isn't a right fit (Josh McD), and then sometimes you just need to give it time. Kubiak has a good system and it's proven. More importantly, Elway knows it works. I'm just a little disappointed in the lack of adjustments that I think could've taken place yesterday, but weren't for some unknown reason.

Agreed. In fact, while I think the Kubiak (Shanahan/Alex Gibbs) model is very good, there are a few areas where I'm very concerned.

First, at times, Houston seemed to a repeat of Denver, where the team got off to hot starts, and then faded down the stretch (fatigue, teams catching on to 6 different plays run from 20 different formations, etc.)

Second, lack of adjustments. While the I think the team was purely outmatched in the '05 AFCCG, at the same time, the fact that even in the third and fourth quarter, when the run was abandoned, that they were still running play action, boggled my mind. The Shanaha/Kubiak schemed doesn't appear to work very well if you can't run the ball. No fall back to shotgun and chuck, it's play action or nothing.

[WARHORSE]

Schlereth said: "Every field goal we make instead of Touchdowns brings us 3 points closer to a loss."

Such a frustrating loss.

Not to correct the mighty Schlereth but isnt it 4 pts? We can take the extra pt for granted 99% of the time I think. ;)

[WARHORSE]

For the record, while this was an ugly frustrating loss, I love the direction Elway and Kubiak are going with the team.


Well if we win Superbowl 50, I'll be the first to say this is the game that woke us up and righted the ship.

One thing that bothers me is no way Belichick loses this game. Too much at stake. No way there is not an adjustment made for Mack......among other adjustments.

Home field. Thats two playoff games including the AFC Championship game on the line for the Broncos fans and the ownership.

I think it was unfair to Schoefield too. No man on the Oline can block Mack one on one. Ask Harris. He made him look like a wind gauge.

I cant think of a single armchair coach on this board, and there are some doozies (inc me) that would not know to at least double Mack.

Its insane. Im finding it hard to grasp. Very hard.

And these are the guys that are going to take us to a Superbowl victory against Cam?

I feel a ripple in the Force.......but Im hoping its just a nipple.

[elsid13]

I blame the loss on the lack of healthy RB. Anderson out, Hillman playing when he shouldn't be and other guy should be bulking up to play FB. The biggest problem injuries to the safeties stopped Denver ability from getting healthy RB on the game day roster. Hell I would flown in Ball at this point.

[tripp]

I blame the loss on the lack of healthy RB. Anderson out, Hillman playing when he shouldn't be and other guy should be bulking up to play FB. The biggest problem injuries to the safeties stopped Denver ability from getting healthy RB on the game day roster. Hell I would flown in Ball at this point.

Would've liked to see Kapri Bibbs given a shot

[Simple Jaded]

The entire first half the fans were lamenting the lack of aggression, then when they get more aggressive fans are blaming the coaches for being more aggressive.

[Simple Jaded]

For the record, while this was an ugly frustrating loss, I love the direction Elway and Kubiak are going with the team.

Completely agree, I think we're in the minority though.

[Magnificent Seven]

Personality, I am blaming it on wide receiver coaches Tyke Tolbert and Marc Lubick. Too many dropped passes.

[Magnificent Seven]

Broncos vs. Raiders game was all about offensive linemen and numbers of dropped passes. They need to re-vamp the linemen. Wide Receivers and Tight ends need to hit the catching drills to improve receiving and hand eye coordination.

[NightTerror218]

Broncos vs. Raiders game was all about offensive linemen and numbers of dropped passes. They need to re-vamp the linemen. Wide Receivers and Tight ends need to hit the catching drills to improve receiving and hand eye coordination.

Next season would be a revamp with Clady and Sambrailo as the bookends.

[DenBronx]

Hey guys, I know I said alot of stupid shit yesterday out of frustration. Things that even I didn't believe because I was too mad to rationalize.

So wanted to apologize to everyone for the way I acted.

I don't handle losses to Oakland very well. I live in the heart of enemy territory, 35 mins from Oakland so I deal with trolling more than you all do. I have friends, family, coworkers, neighbors and everyone else that are raider fans out here that I have to deal with. My phone was immediately on fire after that loss. It's hard to describe...I take it worse than a loss to NE bc I fully expect us to win those games.

[tomjonesrocks]

"What happens in the game day thread stays in the game day thread"

[TimHippo]

I expected more from Juwan Thompson, but since Ronnie Hillman has been here, we all know what to expect from him. We ALL know he will never be a feature back, I'm fairly positive we didn't draft him to be a feature back. Why was he used on most carries? I'll never know. Especially when running up the middle was going NOWHERE the 1st half.

With some time to reflect on the game, I'm pretty convinced if we want any success this post-season, it will have to come from CJ Anderson. Which is a little worrying as he's had trouble staying relatively healthy during his short career as a Bronco.


The guy can't catch. If he's not a feature back, and he can't catch, he can't be a third down back either. It's predictable when he comes in because he is not even a screen pass threat.

[Cugel]

Next season would be a revamp with Clady and Sambrailo as the bookends.

Problems with Ryan Clady:

#1 - He's due $10 M next season. He ain't worth anything like $10 M.

#2 - He's been injured and missed 2 out of the last 3 seasons, with injury to the same knee. He might be done for his career. If he comes back, how long will he stay healthy? Is he reliable at over 30 years old with recurring knee injuries on the same knee?

#3 - Even when he was healthy in 2014 he played nothing like his previous self. He was a shell of the player he was in 2012. Maybe he needed more than a year to come back, but what does that say about 2016 when he's coming back again?

#4 - The Broncos will need to make a decision in March about whether to go out in FA and sign a T, if there's even one available. Normally, teams do not let good LTs go in FA. Of course, they won't even know at that point whether Clady will be completely healthy in 2016, they won't know that until training camp.

Bottom Line: Clady is not reliable.

They might just release Clady, save the $10 M and draft another RT like they did Sambrailo. But, once again you're breaking in an inexperienced player. That didn't work out at all well this season with Sambrailo, Garcia, Paradis and Schofield.

[Cugel]

Woody Paige: "The coaching was not prepared. We talked about coaching scripts yesterday. That was the worst script I've seen since Spiderman went to Broadway."

I'd say that whatever the game plan was for the 2nd half, they need to scrap that. They're going to have to figure out how they can run the ball for more than 34 yards. Period. Brock can't have to throw 51 times.

[Slick]

You could blame the coaches for not giving Schofield some help but the rest of it is on the offensive players for not making plays. There were 2 touchdowns left on the field that had nothing to do with coaching, they were great calls that were poorly executed.

[Ravage!!!]

it was a LOT of bad bad coaching going on during the game, there is no doubt about it. We were out-coached in this game.

[BroncoWave]

it was a LOT of bad bad coaching going on during the game, there is no doubt about it. We were out-coached in this game.

Yeah, damn those coaches for all the fumbles and dropped passes!

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah, damn those coaches for all the fumbles and dropped passes!

There was more going on than those. If YOU wish to look at those as your reasons to excuse the coaches from their inability to manage the game, then fine. Give them your bye. But I'm not.

[BroncoJoe]

I will admit that Kubiak and friends definitely didn't coach their best game, but some of the individual plays being discussed are minor.

Sandy Clough had an interesting take today on 104.3 The Fan. He spitballed that maybe Kubiak left Schofield alone against Mack because it's actually good for Brock to experience that kind of pressure. Especially in a game we "should" have won regardless. Get's him some valuable experience in how to negotiate the pocket, handle pressure, etc.

I thought it was interesting. Not sure I agree, but it was an interesting thought.

[BroncoJoe]

There was more going on than those. If YOU wish to look at those as your reasons to excuse the coaches from their inability to manage the game, then fine. Give them your bye. But I'm not.

Well, maybe you should fire them all!

[BroncoWave]

I will admit that Kubiak and friends definitely didn't coach their best game, but some of the individual plays being discussed are minor.

Sandy Clough had an interesting take today on 104.3 The Fan. He spitballed that maybe Kubiak left Schofield alone against Mack because it's actually good for Brock to experience that kind of pressure. Especially in a game we "should" have won regardless. Get's him some valuable experience in how to negotiate the pocket, handle pressure, etc.

I thought it was interesting. Not sure I agree, but it was an interesting thought.

I seem to remember someone posting something from a former NFL player saying it's the QB's job to set the protections before the play, and that many times players on Denver became frustrated with how many times Peyton called the TEs into block. Given this, I'm not so sure if Mack being blocked by one guy was more on the coaches or on Brock.

[BroncoJoe]

I seem to remember someone posting something from a former NFL player saying it's the QB's job to set the protections before the play, and that many times players on Denver became frustrated with how many times Peyton called the TEs into block. Given this, I'm not so sure if Mack being blocked by one guy was more on the coaches or on Brock.

Yeah - Joel Dreessen discussed that earlier today on the morning show as well. Pretty much said the exact same thing, but more from the standpoint that Brock was trying to get his TE's more involved in the passing game by not keeping them in to block all the time.

[Ravage!!!]

I seem to remember someone posting something from a former NFL player saying it's the QB's job to set the protections before the play, and that many times players on Denver became frustrated with how many times Peyton called the TEs into block. Given this, I'm not so sure if Mack being blocked by one guy was more on the coaches or on Brock.

If you have a young QB behind center, then you make adjustments from the coaching spot to put the young QB in the best position possible to deal with that.. or you FORCE the protection to handle it so that it's not on Brock to recognize. Brock isn't the first young QB n the game, but I don't know if we've seen a single player get 5 sacks before. Oh right.....we haven't.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah - Joel Dreessen discussed that earlier today on the morning show as well. Pretty much said the exact same thing, but more from the standpoint that Brock was trying to get his TE's more involved in the passing game by not keeping them in to block all the time.

Yeah, I think after getting sacked 5 times he might be re-thinking that one this week. It's nice to get the TEs involved in the passing game but it's irrelevant if you keep getting planted on your ass before you can get it to them.

[BroncoJoe]

If you have a young QB behind center, then you make adjustments from the coaching spot to put the young QB in the best position possible to deal with that.. or you FORCE the protection to handle it so that it's not on Brock to recognize. Brock isn't the first young QB n the game, but I don't know if we've seen a single player get 5 sacks before. Oh right.....we haven't.

Derrick Thomas sacked Dave Krieg 7 times in one game in 1990. There are three other times (including Thomas again) who have come within 1 1/2 sacks of that record (you know, 5.5+).

We could go back to the WAY distant past, where Norman Willey of the Eagles had (allegedly) 17 sacks against the Giants in 1952. Sack stats weren't kept until recently.

[BroncoJoe]

Derrick Thomas sacked Dave Krieg 7 times in one game in 1990. There are three other times (including Thomas again) who have come within 1 1/2 sacks of that record (you know, 5.5+).

We could go back to the WAY distant past, where Norman Willey of the Eagles had (allegedly) 17 sacks against the Giants in 1952. Sack stats weren't kept until recently.

Just because I can...

8144

[Ravage!!!]

Derrick Thomas sacked Dave Krieg 7 times in one game in 1990. There are three other times (including Thomas again) who have come within 1 1/2 sacks of that record (you know, 5.5+).

We could go back to the WAY distant past, where Norman Willey of the Eagles had (allegedly) 17 sacks against the Giants in 1952. Sack stats weren't kept until recently.

Great.. so you are saying Mack is DT?

[BroncoJoe]

Great.. so you are saying Mack is DT?

Mack is one hell of a player. Also, see post above. You were WRONG.

[Ravage!!!]

Mack is one hell of a player. Also, see post above. You were WRONG.

Wait.. I didn't mean we've never seen it in the NFL. I'm saying that we've never seen it... so my bad on the bad wording. I'm well aware that DT had 7 sacks, as I was at the game against the seahawks and Dave Krieg threw the winning TD against them as DT had Krieg in his arms for what would have been his 8th sack of that game. So I'm VERY well aware that there have been GREAT players that have had 5 sacks in a game..... VERY VERY rarely.

But being "one hell of a player" doesn't put him amongst the greatest pass rushers of all time. So you'll excuse me if I don't take the "but he's one hell of a player" as a reason for us simply to excuse the allowing of 5 sacks.

[BroncoJoe]

Wait.. I didn't mean we've never seen it in the NFL. I'm saying that we've never seen it... so my bad on the bad wording. I'm well aware that DT had 7 sacks, as I was at the game against the seahawks and Dave Krieg threw the winning TD against them as DT had Krieg in his arms for what would have been his 8th sack of that game. So I'm VERY well aware that there have been GREAT players that have had 5 sacks in a game..... VERY VERY rarely.

But being "one hell of a player" doesn't put him amongst the greatest pass rushers of all time. So you'll excuse me if I don't take the "but he's one hell of a player" as a reason for us simply to excuse the allowing of 5 sacks.

The 5 sacks are inexcusable. Mack, on the other hand, is a young stud. Yes - I believe he'll be a cornerstone of that Raiders defense along the lines of Von Miller in Denver. He's that good, IMO.

[Ravage!!!]

The 5 sacks are inexcusable. Mack, on the other hand, is a young stud. Yes - I believe he'll be a cornerstone of that Raiders defense along the lines of Von Miller in Denver. He's that good, IMO.

So the five sacks are inexcusable.... that's what I've said, but you just wanted to try and zoom in on minute for the sake of arguing.

k.

[Northman]

Mack is the real deal but it doesnt excuse Kubes for not adjusting to the pressure and not helping Schoefield out. That was just dumb on his part.

[BroncoJoe]

So the five sacks are inexcusable.... that's what I've said, but you just wanted to try and zoom in on minute for the sake of arguing.

k.

Where did I ever say that five sacks are OK? You said "I don't know if we've seen a single player get 5 sacks before. Oh right.....we haven't." and I responded.

You also then said Mack isn't on the same level as DT. Well, guess what. He's pretty damn close. He has 14 sacks this season. Thomas exceeded that only twice. I hate DelRio, but he knows how to use this kid, and he's going to be a force in this league as long as he stays healthy.

k.

[Cugel]

Derrick Thomas sacked Dave Krieg 7 times in one game in 1990. There are three other times (including Thomas again) who have come within 1 1/2 sacks of that record (you know, 5.5+).

We could go back to the WAY distant past, where Norman Willey of the Eagles had (allegedly) 17 sacks against the Giants in 1952. Sack stats weren't kept until recently.

OK, so your point is that it has happened once or twice in NFL history, and last time 25 years ago? I'd say the statistics prove the point that it hardly ever happens.

[Simple Jaded]

Next season would be a revamp with Clady and Sambrailo as the bookends.

LT- Clady
LG- Sambrailo
C- Garcia
RG- Vasquez
RT- 1st round rookie.

Better yet.

LT- Joe Thomas
LG- Sambrailo
C- Garcia
RG- Vasquez
RT- Clady

[Cugel]

Where did I ever say that five sacks are OK? You said "I don't know if we've seen a single player get 5 sacks before. Oh right.....we haven't." and I responded.

You also then said Mack isn't on the same level as DT. Well, guess what. He's pretty damn close. He has 14 sacks this season. Thomas exceeded that only twice. I hate DelRio, but he knows how to use this kid, and he's going to be a force in this league as long as he stays healthy.

k.

I'd say he's going to be a force in this league if he keeps getting to play against Michael Schofield. Otherwise, he's got a bull rush move, but not much else. Against the Broncos that was enough. If it wasn't for the Broncos he'd be around a 10-12 sack guy. Decent, but not exactly J.J. Watt out there.

[tripp]

Quick question, not sure where to post this, but since it's a post relating to Kubiak I'll ask it here; do you think the Broncos regret not signing Incognito? Or are they happy with that decision?

[NightTerror218]

LT- Clady
LG- Sambrailo
C- Garcia
RG- Vasquez
RT- 1st round rookie.

Better yet.

LT- Joe Thomas
LG- Sambrailo
C- Garcia
RG- Vasquez
RT- Clady

Why are you putting a tackle as a guard? Sambrailo is a tackle not a guard. He will be one bookend period. The question will be clady, do you go get a new LT or sign a vet LT. Paradis is doing very well, Garcia will be a G. Vasquez do you trade off and get new since he is not working in the system?

[NightTerror218]

Quick question, not sure where to post this, but since it's a post relating to Kubiak I'll ask it here; do you think the Broncos regret not signing Incognito? Or are they happy with that decision?

I bet they figure Mathis was a steal.......doh

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

LT Clady
LG Schofield
C Paradis
RG Garcia
RT Sambrailo

[NightTerror218]

LT Clady
LG Schofield
C Paradis
RG Garcia
RT Sambrailo

1st round draft pick OG or new LT by trading up.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

1st round draft pick OG or new LT by trading up.

That would be fine...but Paradis isn't going anywhere. He's the least of our problems right now.....if Garcia was a better center he'd be playing.

[NightTerror218]

That would be fine...but Paradis isn't going anywhere. He's the least of our problems right now.....if Garcia was a better center he'd be playing.

Garcia is a road plow at times

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Garcia is a road plow at times

Right, and at times he swings as fast as one.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Garcia is a road plow at times

I think he may have a place at LG in this system, but not OC.

[Cugel]

Quick question, not sure where to post this, but since it's a post relating to Kubiak I'll ask it here; do you think the Broncos regret not signing Incognito? Or are they happy with that decision?

Could they be happy not signing any OL who might have helped them? Still, they preferred Evan Mathis as the better option. In retrospect that might not have been true.

Richie Incognito was considered a mediocre OL, and signing him would have been something along the lines of signing Evan Mathis, except a lot more drama. Evan Mathis has been hurt and totally in effective, while the Buffalo GM just said: "He’s had better guard play this year than I’ve seen scouting him for the last five or six years," Whaley said. "He’s impressed all of us, and I would say . . . he should be a candidate for Comeback Player of the Year. He has to be mentioned as a top five guard in the league."

As anybody who watched Hard Knocks could instantly tell, he's a complete bully and total A-hole; one of those morons you knew in high-school who thought that all the bullying he did of everybody was "in good fun." Except it wasn't fun at all to the people he bullied - a point of view he never bothered to consider until it all blew up in his face.

But, this is the NFL, and you're not dealing with guys who weigh 135 lbs., so it's supposed to be a bit different. Still, some people just don't want to deal with constant bullying in their work environment either, even if they are in sports.

No, the guy Elway should have gotten in here was Joe Thomas, not Richie Incognito. I can understand why they wanted Evan Mathis, who was in the pro-bowl a year ago, instead of Incognito. It just didn't work out from a football standpoint.

From a locker-room standpoint, who knows how that would have gone? At the start of this season, this is Peyton Manning's team, and you don't mess with anything or anybody on his team. So there's a level of leadership on this Broncos team that was lacking in Miami (where Joe Philbin was about to be fired).

[Simple Jaded]

Why are you putting a tackle as a guard? Sambrailo is a tackle not a guard. He will be one bookend period. The question will be clady, do you go get a new LT or sign a vet LT. Paradis is doing very well, Garcia will be a G. Vasquez do you trade off and get new since he is not working in the system?

Because Sambrailo is a better guard than tackle, he's only a T for the Broncos ZBS but as you can see they can't hide/protect their linemans flaws like they used to.

Paradis sucks, I don't care why PFF says.

Vasquez is Denver's best lineman again, he's running the outside zones just fine and he's always been good on inside zones, he's just gotta get healthy.

I would put Garcia in the lineup where ever I can, I got 2 G's so I'm giving him C until a long term solution is brought up to speed, at which point I'd slid him into Vasquez spot.

[NightTrainLayne]

I seem to remember someone posting something from a former NFL player saying it's the QB's job to set the protections before the play, and that many times players on Denver became frustrated with how many times Peyton called the TEs into block. Given this, I'm not so sure if Mack being blocked by one guy was more on the coaches or on Brock.

That makes sense for 2-3 plays. But in the second half when it was a problem time after time, that is on the coaching staff to fix it. Whether it means telling Brock in no uncertain terms what's going to happen on the next series, or amending the play call to emphasize the change in protection. It's not like the players and coaches don't talk to each other after every series.

[WARHORSE]

Ok. Im still sick to my stomach over this loss. Was hoping it would have gone away by this time but NOPE. Still there.


Just keeping all you concerned folks out there updated......;)


Stoooopid loss. Stupid loss. Ridiculous loss. Unbelievable.

[NightTerror218]

Ok. Im still sick to my stomach over this loss. Was hoping it would have gone away by this time but NOPE. Still there.

Just keeping all you concerned folks out there updated......;)

Stoooopid loss. Stupid loss. Ridiculous loss. Unbelievable.

Hate to say it but get use to it. The 2 win Raiders are long gone. They are going to be a .500 or better team from now on with Carr.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Hate to say it but get use to it. The 2 win Raiders are long gone. They are going to be a .500 or better team from now on with Carr.

Agreed; they have a great foundation with Carr and Cooper on offense. Then on defense they have Haden and Mack. The Raiders will be contenders.

[NightTrainLayne]

Agreed; they have a great foundation with Carr and Cooper on offense. Then on defense they have Haden and Mack. The Raiders will be contenders.

The Raiders will be solid. But let's remember they have a ceiling as well. Del Rio is not Bill Belichik. They'll be a good middle-of-the-road team, but not a Super Bowl contender, imo.

[Ravage!!!]

The Raiders will be solid. But let's remember they have a ceiling as well. Del Rio is not Bill Belichik. They'll be a good middle-of-the-road team, but not a Super Bowl contender, imo.

Same could be said for us, on that front, then.

[WARHORSE]

The Raiders will be solid. But let's remember they have a ceiling as well. Del Rio is not Bill Belichik. They'll be a good middle-of-the-road team, but not a Super Bowl contender, imo.


I keep wanting to be comforted with that thought..............but then I remember the game and Im like: UNBELIEVABLE.


We were in a field goal game, and we were literally opening the door for their best playmaker to scrounge our young QB.

So what were they thinking......"Ok, Mack sacked him but, no way he can get four more of those.....Schoefield will put it on him this time...."

Repeat five times.

[tripp]

I keep wanting to be comforted with that thought..............but then I remember the game and Im like: UNBELIEVABLE.


We were in a field goal game, and we were literally opening the door for their best playmaker to scrounge our young QB.

So what were they thinking......"Ok, Mack sacked him but, no way he can get four more of those.....Schoefield will put it on him this time...."

Repeat five times.

There were so many opportunities for us to go down the field, but it never materialized. That's what is discouraging the most about this game. Opportunities were there, but no one took advantage of them. Offence was in a huge rut. Zero adjustments made by the coaches. Defence for the most part bailed us out and kept us in it, but we couldn't drive down the field against a sub par defence.

What's going to change against Pitt? Hope for a pick 6? Need CJ back, need to move around the line, I dunno, but something needs to be done. I usually like to make level headed comments on here, but like you, when I think of the Oak game, I see red.

[Cugel]

Same could be said for us, on that front, then.

No it can't. A middle of the road team can't have the best defense in the NFL.

If Brock Osweiler and the offense is even mediocre next year, they win a minimum of 10-11 games. Can't say the same thing about the Raiders.

They are stuck in 3rd place in the division behind the Chiefs and Broncos.

[WARHORSE]

BUMP.

Outcoached once again.


What was the gameplan exactly?


One team made halftime adjustments.........the other didnt.


((O O))
~

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

The more things change...

[Blackclouds]

Kubiak was known to have this happen with the Texans. Losing big leads, tales of two halves, lack of adjustments at halftime. The character of this team is starting to resemble the Kubiak coached Texans.

[arapaho2]

Kubiak was known to have this happen with the Texans. Losing big leads, tales of two halves, lack of adjustments at halftime. The character of this team is starting to resemble the Kubiak coached Texans.

actually resembling the later shanny teams...get a lead in the first and then come out and hope the clock runs out in the second before the other team catches up

[Nomad]

actually resembling the later shanny teams...get a lead in the first and then come out and hope the clock runs out in the second before the other team catches up

Don't you remember fans saying, "There is no need to run up the score."

[Simple Jaded]

BUMP.

Outcoached once again.


What was the gameplan exactly?


One team made halftime adjustments.........the other didnt.


((O O))
~

One team got their Ass handed to them in the first half.

The other handed that team their Ass.

Apparently Kubiaks halftime adjustments was to have holding calls on the OL, have clutch passes dropped and have Harris Jr get abused, worked perfectly too.