View Full Version : Do Bronco fans understand that the health of Manning is not the issue?
Broncoknight30
12-02-2015, 08:47 AM
I am still seeing a lot of posts suggesting that IF and WHEN Manning is "healthy" that he will be the better choice. I have even seen some morons in the media suggest that IF Manning had the type of running game that Oz has had, that he would have been just fine.
Do Broncos fans understand that his health is not the issue? Unless you think that the reason Manning cannot play under center, and the reason why the offense had to switch to the pistol thingamabob, was all due to Manning's damaged thigh and foot.
I know, the OL was such a bag of shit for Manning that the running game could not flourish. Oh, wait. Huh.....I guess that was not the case. Maybe it was CJ Anderson really was not that great and he......oooops. I guess that was not the case. Maybe it was because Kubiak's offensive philosophy is so dated and only teams with high volume passing offenses win in the NFL.......oooooops. That is not the case. Check out the Seahawks passing volume over the last two seasons.
Almost makes you wonder how Manning has 9 one and dones through out his career. Does it make you scratch your head? :confused:
The over all point is those insisting that the health is the issue with Manning are not really seeing things clear enough. Even if by some small miracle and Manning's ouchy on his foot (that he still does not limp and has never limped with) is cured and he is given brand new legs that are as good as they were in 2006, he still would not be fit for running the offense that Kubiak runs.
Bronco fans get that, right? Right?
chazoe60
12-02-2015, 09:44 AM
This couldn't go in any of the other threads addressing this issue?
The idea Manning somehow impairs running is the most ludicrous football-challenged idea I've heard in a long time; tell Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes that, and see what they say. After they recover from the laughing fit (which may take a while.) Manning knows football—its tactics, strategy and history—better than many NFL coaches; he knows "run to establish the pass" is a bedrock principle, and "pass to establish the run" bass-ackward insanity.
The line HAS been such garbage NOTHING could flourish: All the way back to last year, we struggled to even PUNT securely; the last time we played NE* we nearly let them block a punt, but I barely had time to exhale after that before we let them run it back for a TD despite most of our tacklers being behind most of their blockers. That's why 4/5 starters are gone, but that kind of turnover causes confusion and miscommunication that's showed all year, especially early.
The run blocking's slowly if steadily improved, but Do Oz fans understand the line's allowed DOUBLE DIGIT SACKS of their mobile boy wonder in just TWO game? I guarantee Elway, Kubiak and ESPECIALLY Oz does; those are David Carr numbers, and if they keep up Oz might become Mannings biggest fan.
As for CJ, the difference isn't the QB change, but that he had a nagging toe injury until the bye; he's performed so consistently well since the bye that I have no idea why Hillman (who hasn't) remains the starter, but I'm as sure Kubiak has an answer as I am that he has no duty to provide it to you, me, the media or anyone except Elway. But HELL, yes, Manning would've produced more and probably be healthier if he'd had that kind of run support to slow pass rushers and make play action credible instead of laughable.
TWO games. Two. Yes, Oz played well in both, despite a few correctable and understandable rookie tendencies like holding onto the ball too long and taking us out of FG range by eating a 20 yd sack because he thought he could stay alive when he should've thrown the ball to the bench. It's still just TWO games, even if one was in awful conditions vs. the reigning "champs;" that's not even enough he fills all three of the game tapes we're required to give SD.
Maybe he's the long term answer, maybe not, but I strongly doubt he'll win a SB when he has less starts than Tebow. Manning's been there, done that and got the jewelry, so the odds are pretty good he'll be back when healthy unless the playoffs have already started and there's no time left to get him and the team back in synch before it's win-or-go-home. Maybe I'm wrong; I'm not privy to all Elway and Kubiaks data, and Manning's not even out of his boot yet.
That's kind of the point though: NO ONE outside (or even inside, really) the team knows the future, certainly not solely based on a PAIR of games. So anyone claiming the team "will" or "must" do this, that or the other thing as its ONLY hope of a SB (or to avoid the ONLY threat to a "guaranteed" SB) is kidding themselves and everyone else.
You better believe Mannings health is a big factor in how people who ACTUALLY make those decisions WILL. They're not gonna throw him back out there solely based on a doctors note without ever seeing him make another throw, but Oz hasn't shown enough in two games to declare him "the guy" even if a one-time NFL and three-time AFC champion's available to make it two and four. Accept what's beyond your control, and that the world doesn't revolve around EITHER QB.
Broncoknight30
12-02-2015, 09:49 AM
This couldn't go in any of the other threads addressing this issue?
No, it couldn't. I also notice that you violate just about every freaking post you post in by going off topic and personally attacking people.
*** Personal Attack Removed***
Northman
12-02-2015, 09:51 AM
Ouchy.
chazoe60
12-02-2015, 09:55 AM
No, it couldn't. I also notice that you violate just about every freaking post you post in by going off topic and personally attacking people.
*** Personal Attack Removed***
******* hypocrite.
Could you explain further?
Timmy!
12-02-2015, 09:57 AM
The medical doctor has spoken!
BroncoJoe
12-02-2015, 09:59 AM
Broncoknight30 has spoken. So it is written, so it shall be.
Broncoknight30
12-02-2015, 10:08 AM
The idea Manning somehow impairs running is the most ludicrous football-challenged idea I've heard in a long time; tell Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes that, and see what they say. After they recover from the laughing fit (which may take a while.) Manning knows football—its tactics, strategy and history—better than many NFL coaches; he knows "run to establish the pass" is a bedrock principle, and "pass to establish the run" bass-ackward insanity.
The line HAS been such garbage NOTHING could flourish: All the way back to last year, we struggled to even PUNT securely; the last time we played NE* we nearly let them block a punt, but I barely had time to exhale after that before we let them run it back for a TD despite most of our tacklers being behind most of their blockers. That's why 4/5 starters are gone, but that kind of turnover causes confusion and miscommunication that's showed all year, especially early.
The run blocking's slowly if steadily improved, but Do Oz fans understand the line's allowed DOUBLE DIGIT SACKS of their boy wonder in just TWO game? I guarantee Elway, Kubiak and ESPECIALLY Oz does; those are David Carr numbers, and if they keep up Oz might become Mannings biggest fan.
As for CJ, the difference isn't the QB change, but that he had a nagging toe injury until the bye; he's performed so consistently well I have no idea why Hillman (who hasn't) remains the starter, but I'm as sure Kubiak has an answer as I am that he has no duty to provide it to you, me, the media or anyone except Elway. But HELL, yes, Manning would've produced more and probably be healthier if he'd had that kind of run support to slow pass rushers and make play action credible instead of laughable.
TWO games. Two. Yes, Oz played well in both, despite a few correctable and understandable rookie tendencies like holding onto the ball too long and taking us out of FG range by eating a 20 yd sack because he thought he could stay alive when he should've thrown the ball to the bench. It's still just TWO games, even if one was in awful conditions vs. the reigning "champs;" that's not even enough he fills all three of the game tapes we're required to give SD.
Maybe he's the long term answer, maybe not, but I strongly doubt he'll win a SB when he has less starts than Tebow. Manning's been there, done that and got the jewelry, so the odds are pretty good he'll be back when healthy unless the playoffs have already started and there's no time left to get him and the team back in synch before it's win-or-go-home. Maybe I'm wrong; I'm not privy to all Elway and Kubiaks data, and Manning's not even out of his boot yet.
That's kind of the point though: NO ONE outside (or even inside, really) the team knows the future, certainly not solely based on a PAIR of games. So anyone claiming the team "will" or "must" do this that or the other thing as its ONLY hope of a SB (or to avoid the ONLY threat to a "guaranteed" SB) is kidding themselves and everyone else.
You better believe Mannings health is a big factor in how people who ACTUALLY make those decisions WILL. They're not gonna throw him back out there solely based on a doctors note without ever seeing him make another throw, but Oz hasn't shown enough in two games to declare him "the guy" even if a one-time NFL and three-time AFC champion's available to make it two and four. Accept what's beyond your control, and that the world doesn't revolve around EITHER QB.
Man, you are a ripe one. I did not read the rest of your dreck after I got past the first stupid sentence.
Anyone that has a rudimentary understanding of football at the NFL level knows what is going on with Manning. It is not just that he cannot run the Kubiak offense due to his utter lack of any mobility, but it is also due to him not being able throw deep. That includes routes to the outside.
Safeties all year have been cheating up and not playing back. Corners have been closing down inside routes more and more and giving Manning one particular place to throw the ball. In a crowded middle where the LBs, and safeties are sitting.
Not to mention the safeties being defacto 8th and 9th men in the box along with the backside pursuit caving in the cutback lanes that are so necessary for the Kubiak system to flourish.
You, think it is just a coincidence that the ******* running game has averaged 175 yards over the last two weeks, and it had nothing to do with the safeties playing further back and the back side honoring the bootleg action?
Holy shit there are some really ******* stupid Broncos fans.
BroncoJoe
12-02-2015, 10:11 AM
Man, you are a ripe one. I did not read the rest of your dreck after I got past the first stupid sentence.
Anyone that has a rudimentary understanding of football at the NFL level knows what is going on with Manning. It is not just that he cannot run the Kubiak offense due to his utter lack of any mobility, but it is also due to him not being able throw deep. That includes routes to the outside.
Safeties all year have been cheating up and not playing back. Corners have been closing down inside routes more and more and giving Manning one particular place to throw the ball. In a crowded middle where the LBs, and safeties are sitting.
Not to mention the safeties being defacto 8th and 9th men in the box along with the backside pursuit caving in the cutback lanes that are so necessary for the Kubiak system to flourish.
You, think it is just a coincidence that the ******* running game has averaged 175 yards over the last two weeks, and it had nothing to do with the safeties playing further back and the back side honoring the bootleg action?
Holy shit there are some really ******* stupid Broncos fans.
Be prepared for a 1,000 word essay on why you are wrong, which doesn't really address anything.
And, your final comment wasn't necessary and is probably the reason you're considered somewhat of a narcissistic joke here.
LawDog
12-02-2015, 10:12 AM
I'm a Bronco fan. As such, I demand that the team win every game. I demand that the refs do not call unwarranted penalties against the Broncos but liberally blanket the field with yellow against our foes. I demand that the DBC's always wink provocatively into the camera whenever possible. And, I demand that coach Kubiak call me personally before any and all personnel decisions.
BroncoJoe
12-02-2015, 10:17 AM
I'm a Bronco fan. As such, I demand that the team win every game. I demand that the refs do not call unwarranted penalties against the Broncos but liberally blanket the field with yellow against our foes. I demand that the DBC's always wink provactively into the camera whenever possible. And, I demand that coach Kubiak call me personally before any and all personnel decisions.
Can I get your number so I can give it to Kubiak? He calls/texts me nearly every night. It's getting old.
NightTerror218
12-02-2015, 10:22 AM
Be prepared for a 1,000 word essay on why you are wrong, which doesn't really address anything.
And, your final comment wasn't necessary and is probably the reason you're considered somewhat of a narcissistic joke here.
Joel will write the essay in his rebuttal of blind defense of manning and say the OL is the reason for all. And it's a miracle of the OL magically getting better then the running is averaging 3 times the yards it was with manning.
Timmy!
12-02-2015, 10:41 AM
Mods, plz change thread title to: "How to hang yourself with your own hypocrisy." Tia.
Well, that was entertaining. :laugh:
I'm a Bronco fan. As such, I demand that the team win every game. I demand that the refs do not call unwarranted penalties against the Broncos but liberally blanket the field with yellow against our foes. I demand that the DBC's always wink provactively into the camera whenever possible. And, I demand that coach Kubiak call me personally before any and all personnel decisions.
I sent virtually the same thing to Kubiak. Getting a little pissed that he hasn't replied yet.
Ravage!!!
12-02-2015, 10:59 AM
Man, you are a ripe one. I did not read the rest of your dreck after I got past the first stupid sentence.
Anyone that has a rudimentary understanding of football at the NFL level knows what is going on with Manning.
I didn't read your dreck after this sentence. Could you please explain to us (slowly, since we obviously aren't as edumacated as you are) what gives you the qualifications to indictate that you have an understanding of football at the "NFL level," more so, than the rest of us? Purely so we can get past your self ingulgent personal attacks and see that you are truly an expert with your self inflated, overbearing, and omnipotence opinion?
TIA
Timmy!
12-02-2015, 11:03 AM
I didn't read your dreck after this sentence. Could you please explain to us what gives you the qualifications to indictate that you have an understanding of football at the "NFL level" more than the rest of us....purely so we can get past your personal attacks and see that you are truly an expert with your inflated opinion?
TIA
He's banned Ravage. Although I feel pretty confident his response would have been "**** you!"
Davii
12-02-2015, 11:06 AM
Well, that was entertaining. :laugh:
I feel like he might not have had enough opportunity to get his point across. I think it was something along the lines of "**** you", but I'm not sure.
Ravage!!!
12-02-2015, 11:06 AM
He's banned Ravage. Although I feel pretty confident his response would have been "**** you!"
DAMNIT.... oh well.. I needed to type to get my fingers warmed up, anyway.
Northman
12-02-2015, 11:29 AM
Dammit Chaz, why did you have to go and piss off a great poster like that? You should feel ashamed.....
BroncoJoe
12-02-2015, 11:34 AM
Well - that was short lived.
What a pompous, arrogant ass.
Denver Native (Carol)
12-02-2015, 11:40 AM
Thanks to the Mods for giving us an early Christmas present
Well - that was short lived.
What a pompous, arrogant ass.
Pompous...that was my exact word for him too. :D Now see....back when I first took issue with the guy...I don't think I was overreacting. He's shown himself on numerous occasions to be a pompous ass! :laugh:
Pompous...that was my exact word for him too. :D Now see....back when I first took issue with the guy...I don't think I was overreacting. He's shown himself on numerous occasions to be a pompous ass! :laugh:
Pompass?
Northman
12-02-2015, 12:09 PM
Man, i just noticed King got banned as well. lol
chazoe60
12-02-2015, 12:14 PM
I'm gonna miss him.
King better not be banned. What the **** happened.
BroncoJoe
12-02-2015, 12:16 PM
I'm gonna miss him.
King better not be banned. What the **** happened.
He ****'d you.
King has a 5 day ban - not sure what happened there!
Timmy!
12-02-2015, 12:18 PM
He ****'d you.
King has a 5 day ban - not sure what happened there!
He basically nuked NTL. It was brutal.
Pudge
12-02-2015, 12:27 PM
He basically nuked NTL. It was brutal.
I have screen shots available for a dollar
Timmy!
12-02-2015, 12:35 PM
I have screen shots available for a dollar
I'm still mad that the posts got deleted, ruining my perfectly placed gif I had been waiting months to use.
chazoe60
12-02-2015, 12:37 PM
I missed it.
weazel
12-02-2015, 12:37 PM
I am still seeing a lot of posts suggesting that IF and WHEN Manning is "healthy" that he will be the better choice. I have even seen some morons in the media suggest that IF Manning had the type of running game that Oz has had, that he would have been just fine.
Do Broncos fans understand that his health is not the issue? Unless you think that the reason Manning cannot play under center, and the reason why the offense had to switch to the pistol thingamabob, was all due to Manning's damaged thigh and foot.
I know, the OL was such a bag of shit for Manning that the running game could not flourish. Oh, wait. Huh.....I guess that was not the case. Maybe it was CJ Anderson really was not that great and he......oooops. I guess that was not the case. Maybe it was because Kubiak's offensive philosophy is so dated and only teams with high volume passing offenses win in the NFL.......oooooops. That is not the case. Check out the Seahawks passing volume over the last two seasons.
Almost makes you wonder how Manning has 9 one and dones through out his career. Does it make you scratch your head? :confused:
The over all point is those insisting that the health is the issue with Manning are not really seeing things clear enough. Even if by some small miracle and Manning's ouchy on his foot (that he still does not limp and has never limped with) is cured and he is given brand new legs that are as good as they were in 2006, he still would not be fit for running the offense that Kubiak runs.
Bronco fans get that, right? Right?
do Broncos fans understand that broncoknight is just stating the same things that have been said here for the last year? do Broncos fans understand that broncoknight could have done a quick search through the threads to see that every single thing he posted has already been argued about for far too long?
broncoknight... read the forum before posting in the forum with your wonderful insight. This is possibly the stupidest post I have ever seen.... no nobody gets it but you, you are a freaking genius
Northman
12-02-2015, 12:37 PM
He basically nuked NTL. It was brutal.
Lmao
BroncoJoe
12-02-2015, 12:47 PM
I have screen shots available for a dollar
I'll buy that for a dollar!
I, regretfully, missed it as well.
weazel
12-02-2015, 12:51 PM
wow I missed it all, I even replied to a guy that isnt here anymore
tomjonesrocks
12-02-2015, 12:57 PM
I missed it.
I missed this guys tirade against you as well. Bah!
Did King Style and Murderdance on NTL?
Pudge
12-02-2015, 01:02 PM
I missed this guys tirade against you as well. Bah!
The forum must be refreshed with the blood of Patriots (fans) and tyrants (trolls) occasionally.
Pudge
12-02-2015, 01:03 PM
I missed this guys tirade against you as well. Bah!
Did King Style and Murderdance on NTL?
NTL is still recovering, were not sure he's going to make it
NightTrainLayne
12-02-2015, 01:19 PM
NTL is still recovering, were not sure he's going to make it
I'll be fine. The ban log/banned suspended members thread in Town Forum lists the reasons for King's suspension.
Cugel
12-02-2015, 01:26 PM
Joel will write the essay in his rebuttal of blind defense of manning and say the OL is the reason for all. And it's a miracle of the OL magically getting better then the running is averaging 3 times the yards it was with manning.
Not magic at all. Brock is playing under center about 80% of the time, and running boot-legs to stretch the field. This helps make up for the horrible OL play.
However, he's still being sacked at a phenomenal rate of 11 times in a little over 2 games, added to Peyton being sacked 15 times in 9 games after only being sacked 17 times all last season, so all is not exactly rosy on the OL front now that Brock is starting.
Pudge
12-02-2015, 01:26 PM
I'll be fine. The ban log/banned suspended members thread in Town Forum lists the reasons for King's suspension.
I called you a name in another thread expecting a response from you. You've left me disappointed in you.
NightTerror218
12-02-2015, 01:53 PM
Not magic at all. Brock is playing under center about 80% of the time, and running boot-legs to stretch the field. This helps make up for the horrible OL play.
However, he's still being sacked at a phenomenal rate of 11 times in a little over 2 games, added to Peyton being sacked 15 times in 9 games after only being sacked 17 times all last season, so all is not exactly rosy on the OL front now that Brock is starting.
But my point is the offense is better with Oz. Field is stretched, the timing for blocking and RB to hit the holes is back to what practiced all preseason and not a hodge podge mix of pistol a and shotgun hand offs.
I missed the purge, too, but at least it gave me cause to check Townhall and see the old thread on coding the site to automatically add asterisks to all forms of NE*; love that idea.
Valar Morghulis
12-02-2015, 04:11 PM
I have screen shots available for a dollar
Send them my way, I will pay you at the tail gate in 2 years
Valar Morghulis
12-02-2015, 04:14 PM
Starting a thread "do Broncos fans..." Suggests to me he is not a Broncos fan
TimHippo
12-02-2015, 04:17 PM
Yashi?
I'm gonna miss him. King better not be banned. What the **** happened.
I sent him a text earlier. He gave me a very shortened version of what happened and said he's unlikely to come back here. I will continue to pressure him. Losing King would be detrimental to this board IMO.
I have screen shots available for a dollar
Do it for free for me one time?
Pudge
12-02-2015, 04:33 PM
Do it for free for me one time?
I can't post them here, and I don't know how to do it via pm
I can't post them here, and I don't know how to do it via pm
I'll pm you my number
Simple Jaded
12-02-2015, 11:14 PM
Omg, tell me this season hasn't been a total ******* blast?
Northman
12-03-2015, 07:21 AM
I sent him a text earlier. He gave me a very shortened version of what happened and said he's unlikely to come back here. I will continue to pressure him. Losing King would be detrimental to this board IMO.
Lol King going all drama Queen now. He'll be back especially after Denver kicks the shit out of Cincy.
Lol King going all drama Queen now. He'll be back especially after Denver kicks the shit out of Cincy.
He's not saying he won't come back because of the ban. He knows he earned the ban.
DenBronx
12-03-2015, 03:29 PM
Lol King going all drama Queen now. He'll be back especially after Denver kicks the shit out of Cincy.
He's not saying he won't come back because of the ban. He knows he earned the ban.
Earned? Like a badge of merit? Wear it proudly!
BroncoJoe
12-03-2015, 03:48 PM
I sent him a text earlier. He gave me a very shortened version of what happened and said he's unlikely to come back here. I will continue to pressure him. Losing King would be detrimental to this board IMO.
PM me his number. I'll get him back.
Earned? Like a badge of merit? Wear it proudly!
No, earned as in deserved. It's a synonym.
Davii
12-03-2015, 04:07 PM
PM me his number. I'll get him back.
Speaking of, I haven't heard from you in ages. I'm beginning to feel unloved Joe.
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