Josh McDaniels on Rob Gronkowski: 'Very rarely, if ever, extends his arms'

[Denver Native (Carol)]

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- Bill Belichick often says that the New England Patriots can't control officials' calls, so the focus is on controlling their knowledge of the rules and doing whatever they can to play within them.[

Specific to Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski and the way offensive pass interference is being called, we've reached a boiling point.

Gronkowski expressed his frustration on Twitter on Tuesday, as he has now been flagged for a league-high six offensive pass interference penalties (including declined and offsetting infractions).

With the chance to engage offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels on the topic Tuesday, the following question was asked: What is Gronkowski doing wrong specific to those those two calls and how do you approach that situation going forward?

rest - http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4788137/josh-mcdaniels-on-rob-gronkowski-very-rarely-if-ever-extends-his-arms

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He could start with not intentionally running into db's to nock them off balance.

[BroncoNut]

He could start with not intentionally running into db's to nock them off balance.

that should be illegal anyway

[BroncoJoe]

Well, we can certainly trust what Josh McDaniels says.

:tsk:

[Dreadnought]

Lying sack o' crap. Still.

[Davii]

I had a funny comment about Gronk not having a gag reflex so there not being a need to, but this isn't the lounge.

[chazoe60]

I can not tell a lie, Josh McDaniels is a douche.

[BroncoWave]

Getting my popcorn for the scorching hot takes about to be churned out in this thread! :popcorn:

I can see they have already started!

[DenBronx]

Go suck a bag of dicks Josh!

[Northman]

So glad that assclown is no longer here.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Just as the mic shuts off. ..." he rarely extends his arms, just when he gets close to db's he extends them."

[BroncoWave]

How dare he publicly defend one of his players! What a ****ing douchebag. Certainly not a leader of men, with him defending his player and all.

[NightTerror218]

He ALWAYS pushes off at the top of his routes. Or he runs through the defender.

Watch the play his arm is fully extended. He is big and arms are long, of course he will get caught with OPI.

[Davii]

How dare he publicly defend one of his players! What a ****ing douchebag. Certainly not a leader of men, with him defending his player and all.

Nobody is calling him a db for defending gronk. There are PLENTY of reasons to call him that without talking about Gronk.

So I guess that's your #hottake

[BroncoWave]

Nobody is calling him a db for defending gronk. There are PLENTY of reasons to call him that without talking about Gronk.

So I guess that's your #hottake

I can spit mad hot fire about McD all day every day. :D

I can't wait to see all the hot takes, though, when he gets a head coaching gig this offseason. They will be off the charts. My computer will probably melt from all the heat.

[Davii]

I can spit mad hot fire about McD all day every day. :D

I can't wait to see all the hot takes, though, when he gets a head coaching gig this offseason. They will be off the charts. My computer will probably melt from all the heat.

Especially once the wheels fall off.

[BroncoWave]

Especially once the wheels fall off.

I hope he goes to the NFC so I can just shamelessly cheer for his team and gloat nonstop when they win and not have to feel bad about it being bad for the Broncos. :D

[Davii]

I hope he goes to the NFC so I can just shamelessly cheer for his team and gloat nonstop when they win and not have to feel bad about it being bad for the Broncos. :D

History says you will be disappointed. But hey, don't let that stop you.

[Joel]

Especially once the wheels fall off.
I loved Collinsworths prediction during the game that McDumbass will succeed next time because he's admitted making mistakes in Denver and learning personal skills matter. Then I thought about Belicheats "personal skills" and just couldn't stop laughing.

[BroncoWave]

History says you will be disappointed. But hey, don't let that stop you.

His football acumen has never been in doubt. He still has that very much going for him. I am going to assume that he has learned from his mistakes in Denver and will be more mature and ready to be a head coach in his second gig. Unless he's just a total moron, I'm sure he has reflected on what cost him his job in Denver and will do all he can not to make the same mistakes and cost himself a second job.

I actually think his quotes on Gronk here back my view on this up. Sticking up for your players in public is a pretty good quality in a leader. Obviously none of this guarantees that he will be a success in his next job, but I don't think he will be near the failure that all of you are praying he will be.

[Pudge]

His football acumen has never been in doubt. He still has that very much going for him. I am going to assume that he has learned from his mistakes in Denver and will be more mature and ready to be a head coach in his second gig. Unless he's just a total moron, I'm sure he has reflected on what cost him his job in Denver and will do all he can not to make the same mistakes and cost himself a second job.

I actually think his quotes on Gronk here back my view on this up. Sticking up for your players in public is a pretty good quality in a leader. Obviously none of this guarantees that he will be a success in his next job, but I don't think he will be near the failure that all of you are praying he will be.

Jesus christ, just swallow already. We get it, you're on his dick.

[chazoe60]

I can spit mad hot fire about McD all day every day. :D

I can't wait to see all the hot takes, though, when he gets a head coaching gig this offseason. They will be off the charts. My computer will probably melt from all the heat.

We can only hope.

[MOtorboat]

He's so dreamy.

[BroncoWave]

Jesus christ, just swallow already. We get it, you're on his dick.

Someone has to be the voice of reason. :)

[DenBronx]

History says you will be disappointed. But hey, don't let that stop you.

His football acumen has never been in doubt. He still has that very much going for him. I am going to assume that he has learned from his mistakes in Denver and will be more mature and ready to be a head coach in his second gig. Unless he's just a total moron, I'm sure he has reflected on what cost him his job in Denver and will do all he can not to make the same mistakes and cost himself a second job.

I actually think his quotes on Gronk here back my view on this up. Sticking up for your players in public is a pretty good quality in a leader. Obviously none of this guarantees that he will be a success in his next job, but I don't think he will be near the failure that all of you are praying he will be.


Jus stahhhhhhp

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Statement on Rob Gronkowski
Tuesday, December 01, 2015 4:53 PM EST
By New England Patriots


@patriots

The New England Patriots and the Gronkowski family are providing the following statement regarding Rob Gronkowski’s injured right knee.
Read

"During Sunday night’s game, Rob Gronkowski sustained a bone bruise/sprain of his right knee. His status will be evaluated on a week-to-week basis and listed accordingly on the practice participation and injury reports. There is no timetable for his readiness to return, which will be determined in the days or hours prior to the appropriate game. Any timetable reported prior to that final determination would be speculative."

http://www.patriots.com/news/2015/12/01/statement-rob-gronkowski

[Simple Jaded]

His football acumen sucks monkey nuts when he doesn't have Belicheat giving him the game plan.

[CrazyHorse]

His football acumen has never been in doubt. He still has that very much going for him. I am going to assume that he has learned from his mistakes in Denver and will be more mature and ready to be a head coach in his second gig. Unless he's just a total moron, I'm sure he has reflected on what cost him his job in Denver and will do all he can not to make the same mistakes and cost himself a second job.

I actually think his quotes on Gronk here back my view on this up. Sticking up for your players in public is a pretty good quality in a leader. Obviously none of this guarantees that he will be a success in his next job, but I don't think he will be near the failure that all of you are praying he will be.

Ideally he stays with the Patriots and becomes head coach after Bellichick retires and the Patriots become a perennial cellar dweller. Adam Gase on the other had hopefully goes on to be a successful head coach in the NFC.

[Northman]

Nobody is calling him a db for defending gronk. There are PLENTY of reasons to call him that without talking about Gronk.

So I guess that's your #hottake

I love watching Wave get all butthurt when McDaniels comes up. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

I love watching Wave get all butthurt when McDaniels comes up. :lol:

LOL yeah, I'M the butthurt one in this thread. Not the countless Broncos fans who still curse his name over 5 years after he is done being our coach. :lol:

That might be the funniest thing I have ever read North. Thanks for the morning laugh! :lol:

[Northman]

LOL yeah, I'M the butthurt one in this thread. Not the countless Broncos fans who still curse his name over 5 years after he is done being our coach. :lol:

That might be the funniest thing I have ever read North. Thanks for the morning laugh! :lol:



http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54587790.jpg

[BroncoWave]

I can't wait to see all the butthurt on this message board when he gets hired next year and turns whatever team he goes to into a winner. It's going to be legendary.

[Northman]

I wouldnt hold my breathe on that. lmao

[GEM]

It'll be even funnier when he gets hired and shits the bed again.

[Northman]

I mean, after winners like Mangini and Crennel who come from the same coaching tree. lol

[Joel]

LOL yeah, I'M the butthurt one in this thread. Not the countless Broncos fans who still curse his name over 5 years after he is done being our coach. :lol:
Imagine I took advantage of an owner afflicted by Alzheimers, got total control of a pro team and then did what I do, but ALSO cussed all dissenters, traded away the teams best players simply because they weren't "mine," lied to their faces about it, got caught cheating my way to the leagues second worst record the same way my mentor cheated his way to three "championships," and lied about that, too. Except imagine it 8 years ago, because McDumbass is even younger than I.

Think that unfortunate teams fans would still go into a blind rage every time they heard my name? Especially when I slunk back to the slimy hole that spawned me and jobbed them and everyone else out of games en route to a fourth "championship"? I don't get why there are still people who think the sun shines out of McDumbass' belligerent self-important butt; I used to say McCoy and Gase had the best job in the NFL getting well paid for a job Peyton Manning actually DID, but McDumbass has Belicheat and Brady, so....

MAYBE some team like the Browns will be both desperate AND stupid enough to hire McDumbass, and maybe his self esteem's recovered enough he'll dare take it. But the odds look at least as good that other teams will wait at least until Brady (and probably Belicheat) leave(s) to see if McDumbass is any more capable of accomplishing anything without them than he did on his last try. A lot of people are probably waiting just to see if he's grown up any more after he turns 40. His comments since leaving Denver suggest not.

He's just trying to stroke a MFing overinflated ego, and few owners or GMs will put their franchises fate in the hands of someone like that.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.patriots.com/news/2015/12/01/statement-rob-gronkowski

Lindsay Jones ‏@bylindsayhjones 23h

Lindsay Jones Retweeted New England Patriots

Trying to remember another instance where a player's family is part of an injury statement

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

http://www.patriots.com/news/2015/12/01/statement-rob-gronkowski

Another wordy way for *Patriot nation to misdirect regarding player injuries.

[Davii]

Another wordy way for *Patriot nation to misdirect regarding player injuries.

That's how it seems to me. BB misrepresents and skirts the rules surrounding player injury reporting on a regular basis it seems. I'm surprised he hasn't been fined or something by the league for it yet.

[Ravage!!!]

Extending the arm out is a DEAD giveaway. It's the Micheal Irving move, that they talked extensively on when they 'confirmed' it as something they would be woatching, as Irving made a living out of that shit. Gronk does it regularly, and it's easy to get separation if you are pushing the guy (that you just knocked backwards) by extending your arm. ANY WR coudl get that kind of separation if they were allowed this.

[Ravage!!!]

I can't wait to see all the butthurt on this message board when he gets hired next year and turns whatever team he goes to into a winner. It's going to be legendary.

I'll take that bet. He won't be able to change his colors, and he doesn't have a clue on how to "lead" people. I'll laugh my ass off when he continues to fail without having Brady as the conductor of his offense. It's pretty damned easy as an OC when you have that talent behind center. He's failed everywhere else without him, and then had to go running back under the wing of his hoodie.

[MOtorboat]

Lindsay Jones ‏@bylindsayhjones 23h

Lindsay Jones Retweeted New England Patriots

Trying to remember another instance where a player's family is part of an injury statement

Gronkowski is a friggin' drama queen. He was up walking around the locker room an hour after writhing on the turf acting like his career was over. Probably was trying to draw a flag or something.

It was a sprain for ****'s sake. And then "the statement." LOL.

I wish no one ever to get injured, but come on dude.

[TXBRONC]

His football acumen has never been in doubt. He still has that very much going for him. I am going to assume that he has learned from his mistakes in Denver and will be more mature and ready to be a head coach in his second gig. Unless he's just a total moron, I'm sure he has reflected on what cost him his job in Denver and will do all he can not to make the same mistakes and cost himself a second job.

I actually think his quotes on Gronk here back my view on this up. Sticking up for your players in public is a pretty good quality in a leader. Obviously none of this guarantees that he will be a success in his next job, but I don't think he will be near the failure that all of you are praying he will be.

Being smart won't make him good head coach and neither will learning from him mistakes IF he has. His downfall was a personality issue and that isn't something that is easily changed.

Yeah he stuck up for some of his players in Denver that didn't stop him from being a complete cluster ________.

[TXBRONC]

Someone has to be the voice of reason. :)

When that person posts I'll alert you to it. :2thumbs:

[TXBRONC]

It'll be even funnier when he gets hired and shits the bed again.

The only real thing that ****McDbag has proven to this point is that he can't be successful without ****Belicheat.

[Ravage!!!]

The only real thing that ****McDbag has proven to this point is that he can't be successful without ****Belicheat.

which is why he ran back to the hoodie. It's easy to be successful when you have Brady.

He's too much of an ego-maniac that thinks he's just so much smarter than everyone else. It wasn't just his players he didn't get along with, it was the DC as well as Nolan bolted because of the bravado that douche tried to push. No one wanted to work with him, or for him. Unless he's made a complete personality change, I wouldn't hold my breath as to the success he will have as an HC for any extended period. Especially with his player evaluation skills.

[TXBRONC]

which is why he ran back to the hoodie. It's easy to be successful when you have Brady.

He's too much of an ego-maniac that thinks he's just so much smarter than everyone else. It wasn't just his players he didn't get along with, it was the DC as well as Nolan bolted because of the bravado that douche tried to push. No one wanted to work with him, or for him. Unless he's made a complete personality change, I wouldn't hold my breath as to the success he will have as an HC for any extended period. Especially with his player evaluation skills.

"I don't know what a franchise quarterback looks like."

#JoshMcDbag.

[BroncoWave]

He evaluated guys like Cutler, Scheffler, and Hillis pretty damn accurately.

[Ravage!!!]

He evaluated guys like Cutler, Scheffler, and Hillis pretty damn accurately.

Yeah.. making that attempt to trade Cutler for Cassle was friggin BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[MOtorboat]

He evaluated guys like Cutler, Scheffler, and Hillis pretty damn accurately.

It was spot on.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Yeah.. making that attempt to trade Cutler for Cassle was friggin BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

Cutler and a 5th rounder for Orton, 2 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder wasn't a bad trade at all. Even if Orton sucked. We robbed Chicago on that one. Then they doubled down and gave Cutler that monster contract. He has looked better this year, but they still over payed.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah.. making that attempt to trade Cutler for Cassle was friggin BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

There is not a team in the NFL who would give Chicago anything close to the haul mcd got for Cutler.

[Slick]

There is not a team in the NFL who would give Chicago anything close to the haul mcd got for Cutler.

Not now obviously. Back then, maybe. What did McD do with that haul Chicago gave him?

[TXBRONC]

It was spot on.

Not even close.

[MOtorboat]

Not even close.

Not close on what aspect?

Scheffler and Hillis were easily replaceable and were replaced within a year. Cutler is an average to below average quarterback.

[Davii]

Not now obviously. Back then, maybe. What did McD do with that haul Chicago gave him?

Regardless, he brought his cheating ways to Denver, still couldn't win, and "led" us to the worst season in Franchise history. Worst season ever, made us a laughing stock, WHILE CHEATING. Did I happen to mention that part about cheating? **** that douchebag.

[Slick]

Regardless, he brought his cheating ways to Denver, still couldn't win, and "led" us to the worst season in Franchise history. Worst season ever, made us a laughing stock, WHILE CHEATING. Did I happen to mention that part about cheating? **** that douchebag.

No argument from me. He's a turd.

[Ravage!!!]

There is not a team in the NFL who would give Chicago anything close to the haul mcd got for Cutler.

You mean what they gave for a 23 year old pro-bowl QB? What did he do with it? Oh, yeah, replaced him with Tebow.

But you are forgetting to mention that the trade for Orton only came about because the trade for Cassle fell on his face. Brilliant workmanship, yeah, he was SPOT ON! :lol: jeezus

[TXBRONC]

Not close on what aspect?

Scheffler and Hillis were easily replaceable and were replaced within a year. Cutler is an average to below average quarterback.

Dick Quinn not even below average and Knowshon Moreno average at best. Who did McDaniels replace Cutler with? Kyle practice champ Orton, He the epitome of below average.

[NightTerror218]

Dick Quinn not even below average and Knowshon Moreno average at best. Who did McDaniels replace Cutler with? Kyle practice champ Orton, He the epitome of below average.

Moreno's last season was better then average. I wish we still had him as a vet to young guys. Wish we kept him for young guys, loved his passion and are crawl first down.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno's last season was better then average. I wish we still had him as a vet to young guys. Wish we kept him for young guys, loved his passion and are crawl first down.

I don't know NT. There are a lot average back that can put a 1,000 yard rushing at least once in their career. He did that and disappeared afterwards.

[Northman]

I think if anything Denver should of tried to grab DeAngelo Williams. He has been a great pickup for Pitt this year.

[BroncoWave]

Dick Quinn not even below average and Knowshon Moreno average at best. Who did McDaniels replace Cutler with? Kyle practice champ Orton, He the epitome of below average.

Peyton Hillis wishes he had half the talent of Moreno. That was an enormous upgrade in talent. We didn't really need a replacement for Scheffler because we already had a perfectly servicable TE in Daniel Graham on the roster. Beside, Sheff was out of the league a few years after we got rid of him.

The level to which people continue to overrate the players McD got rid of continues to astound me.

[Davii]

Peyton Hillis wishes he had half the talent of Moreno. That was an enormous upgrade in talent. We didn't really need a replacement for Scheffler because we already had a perfectly servicable TE in Daniel Graham on the roster. Beside, Sheff was out of the league a few years after we got rid of him.

The level to which people continue to overrate the players McD got rid of continues to astound me.

The level you will go to in defense of a guy that caused our worst record ever, all while cheating, continues to astound all others

[TXBRONC]

Peyton Hillis wishes he had half the talent of Moreno. That was an enormous upgrade in talent. We didn't really need a replacement for Scheffler because we already had a perfectly servicable TE in Daniel Graham on the roster. Beside, Sheff was out of the league a few years after we got rid of him.

The level to which people continue to overrate the players McD got rid of continues to astound me.

Graham stunk.

Yeah levels people will go to defend a guy hurt the Broncos is astounding.

[BroncoWave]

The level you will go to in defense of a guy that caused our worst record ever, all while cheating, continues to astound all others

Ok then, tell me where I'm wrong about Cutler, Hillis, or Scheffler.

[Ravage!!!]

Ok then, tell me where I'm wrong about Cutler, Hillis, or Scheffler.

You think he was right about Cutler being less of a QB than Cassle? Really? You think he was right about CUtler being less of a QB than Orton? You think he was right about Cutler being less of a QB than Tebow?

Hillis sure seemed to perform with Shanahan. So did Scheffler. Perhaps it was simply that McDick isn't a good HC? Was he wrong about Marshal, I noticed you left him out of the mix for conveinence?

You are still pissed that People liked Hillis more than your Mike Vick, and just can't seem to get past it. Hillis was just as talented as Moreno, sure didn't take Hillis as long to prove that at the NFL level as it did Moreno to finally show something. WHAT in Moreno's career would make Hillis jealous of his "talent?"

[Ravage!!!]

I think if anything Denver should of tried to grab DeAngelo Williams. He has been a great pickup for Pitt this year.

Yeah..looking back, that would have been an INCREDIBLE grab!

[TXBRONC]

I find it funny that two guys who hang all over McDickbag seem to forget where that puke came from.

[BroncoWave]

You think he was right about Cutler being less of a QB than Cassle? Really? You think he was right about CUtler being less of a QB than Orton? You think he was right about Cutler being less of a QB than Tebow?

Hillis sure seemed to perform with Shanahan. So did Scheffler. Perhaps it was simply that McDick isn't a good HC? Was he wrong about Marshal, I noticed you left him out of the mix for conveinence?

You are still pissed that People liked Hillis more than your Mike Vick, and just can't seem to get past it. Hillis was just as talented as Moreno, sure didn't take Hillis as long to prove that at the NFL level as it did Moreno to finally show something. WHAT in Moreno's career would make Hillis jealous of his "talent?"

It wasn't a straight up trade for Orton. No Orton was not better than Cutler. But Orton plus 2 firsts was WAY better value than Cutler. It's not a 1 to 1 trade we are talking about, which for whatever reason you are completely failing to acknowledge.

[BroncoWave]

Hillis sure seemed to perform with Shanahan. So did Scheffler. Perhaps it was simply that McDick isn't a good HC? Was he wrong about Marshal, I noticed you left him out of the mix for conveinence?

You are still pissed that People liked Hillis more than your Mike Vick, and just can't seem to get past it. Hillis was just as talented as Moreno, sure didn't take Hillis as long to prove that at the NFL level as it did Moreno to finally show something. WHAT in Moreno's career would make Hillis jealous of his "talent?"

The common cog here seems to be shanny. Maybe he is just good at squeezing talent out of mediocre offensive players. Notice that even once Hillis and Scheffler were out of the control of the horrible Josh McDaniels they accomplished about jack shit for the rest of their careers.

And I left Marshall out because he wasn't jettisoned for his talent. He was jettisoned for his attitude, which, if you have been keeping up, has gotten him dumped from two other teams since.

And I don't know if you've been keeping up, but I have been anti-Hillis since WAY before the whole Madden cover thing. I had actually totally forgotten that it was even Vick he faced in the finals of that vote until it was brought up recently. But whatever fits your narrative I guess.

As for Moreno/Hillis, Moreno's career numbers absolutely dwarf Hillis'. It's really not even close. So I am basing that statement on measurable facts.

[MOtorboat]

We're still opining for Hillis and is one good game as a Bronco I see.

[BroncoWave]

Here are their per game averages as pro running backs:

Moreno: 57.3 rush yds, .42 rush td, 22.4 rec yds, .14 rec TD
Hillis: 34.9 rush yds, .28 rush TD, 12.9 rec yds, .03 rec RD

Extrapolating those per game numbers to a 16 game season:

Moreno: 916 rush yds, 7 TD, 358 rec yds, 2 TD
Hillis: 558 rush yds, 4 TD, 206 rec yds, .5 TD

So yeah, kinda no doubt about who the more productive player was.

Peyton Hillis had 8 TOTAL starts as a Bronco. Yes, 8. And in those 8 starts (and 26 total games played), he produced a whopping 397 rushing yards. So yes, in his two seasons as a Bronco he produced 397 rushing yards. In Moreno's two best GAMES as a Bronco, he produced 385 rushing yards. So the two best GAMES of Moreno's career nearly equaled the production achieved by Hillis in two full SEASONS as a Bronco.

The fact that Moreno vs Hillis is even considered a debate by anyone is just silly.

[Davii]

Josh McDickhead was a terrible head coach. His record speaks for itself. Period.

[BroncoWave]

Josh McDickhead was a terrible head coach. His record speaks for itself. Period.

That's fine, but I was talking about his evaluation of Cutler, Hillis, and Scheffler, which all wound up being spot-on.

[TXBRONC]

That's fine, but I was talking about his evaluation of Cutler, Hillis, and Scheffler, which all wound up being spot-on.

Actually they weren't.

[Davii]

That's fine, but I was talking about his evaluation of Cutler, Hillis, and Scheffler, which all wound up being spot-on.

Disagree on Cutler. His evaluation was that Cassel was better, he wasn't and isn't. After that Jay forced his way out due to McDick's horrifically bad interpersonal skills. I agree that Jay isn't a guy to build your franchise around but he was and is better than Cassel.

[BroncoWave]

Disagree on Cutler. His evaluation was that Cassel was better, he wasn't and isn't. After that Jay forced his way out due to McDick's horrifically bad interpersonal skills. I agree that Jay isn't a guy to build your franchise around but he was and is better than Cassel.

How do we know the trade would have been straight up for Cassel? That is pure conjecture. It could very well have been similar to the Bears deal of 2 firsts plus the QB. In that case it, again, would have been a nice deal for Denver.

[Davii]

How do we know the trade would have been straight up for Cassel? That is pure conjecture. It could very well have been similar to the Bears deal of 2 firsts plus the QB. In that case it, again, would have been a nice deal for Denver.

He wanted Cassel in Cutlet's place, end of story.

[TXBRONC]

How do we know the trade would have been straight up for Cassel? That is pure conjecture. It could very well have been similar to the Bears deal of 2 firsts plus the QB. In that case it, again, would have been a nice deal for Denver.

What does that matter? It doesn't change the fact that Cassel is an inferior quarterback. It also doesn't matter what he got for Cutler he wasted it.

[wayninja]

It's ridiculous to try to say that he doesn't know anything about football or that all his moves were the wrong ones, that's just pure bias.

But it's definitely not unreasonable to say based on his record and with the benefit of hindsight, he was absolutely NOT a good head coach. For everything he did well, he did at least 2 things absolutely terribly.

See? Now I'm the voice of reason.

[Northman]

Well, to be fair Cutler is still a starter. Cassell is a journeyman backup, Tebow cant even make third string, and Orton was a journeyman before retiring. The bottom line is McD was just as bad at picking players as he was at getting into girl fights with them before sending them on their way.

[BroncoWave]

It's ridiculous to try to say that he doesn't know anything about football or that all his moves were the wrong ones, that's just pure bias.

But it's definitely not unreasonable to say based on his record and with the benefit of hindsight, he was absolutely NOT a good head coach. For everything he did well, he did at least 2 things absolutely terribly.

See? Now I'm the voice of reason.

And I've said multiple times Denver was completely right to fire him. But seriously, someone has to be the voice of reason among all the utter stupidity and hyperbole thrown out about him.

His roster moves were really no worse than a lot of Shanny's toward the end of his Broncos tenure, but I don't see anyone saying that he doesn't know how to evaluate talent.

[Davii]

And I've said multiple times Denver was completely right to fire him. But seriously, someone has to be the voice of reason among all the utter stupidity and hyperbole thrown out about him.

His roster moves were really no worse than a lot of Shanny's toward the end of his Broncos tenure, but I don't see anyone saying that he doesn't know how to evaluate talent.

Then you obviously weren't paying attention around here toward the end of Shanny's tenure. Others have to be the voice of reason among the asinine and idiotic defense of the worst coach Denver has had. There is no defending that or wishing it away. His record speaks for itself, he was the worst coach in Denver Bronco history.

[BroncoWave]

Well, to be fair Cutler is still a starter. Cassell is a journeyman backup, Tebow cant even make third string, and Orton was a journeyman before retiring. The bottom line is McD was just as bad at picking players as he was at getting into girl fights with them before sending them on their way.

Jesus Christ is wasn't a straight up trade. When you trade one player for another and you get 2 first round picks back as well, OF COURSE the player you traded is going to be better than the one you got in return. That's how literally every trade in the history of sports has worked when one team gets a bunch of high draft picks in a deal and the other only trades a player. I don't know what it is about McDaniels that makes otherwise intelligent posters act absolutely retarded when discussing his moves.

[Davii]

I don't know what it is about McDaniels that makes otherwise intelligent posters act absolutely retarded when discussing his moves.

Good question...

[Northman]

Jesus Christ is wasn't a straight up trade. When you trade one player for another and you get 2 first round picks back as well, OF COURSE the player you traded is going to be better than the one you got in return. That's how literally every trade in the history of sports has worked when one team gets a bunch of high draft picks in a deal and the other only trades a player. I don't know what it is about McDaniels that makes otherwise intelligent posters act absolutely retarded when discussing his moves.

I guess thank God McD wasnt around when Elway was QB then, he might of traded John for Bobby Herbert. lmao

Sorry Wave, you and i will just not agree. You dont trade a KNOWN commodity for a bunch of unknowns. There were plenty of great pieces in place when McD got to Denver on the offensive side of the ball. Even if guys like Hillis and Sheff didnt pan out elsewhere they did have chemistry and teamwork in Denver. McD was a terrible coach who thought he could win with scrubs and it backfired.

[BroncoWave]

Then you obviously weren't paying attention around here toward the end of Shanny's tenure.

You're right, a guy with 25000 posts on a Broncos message board probably doesn't pay a lot of attention to the Broncos. Solid point. Other than the good 06 draft, which I will admit was very good, Shanny made a ton of shit moves his last few years here. Hell, it's now been reported that he wanted Leinart in the first round of that draft, so who knows how much of that draft was really him now anyway. Look at his 05 and 07 drafts if you want to see some nice lists of busts. Maurice Clarett in the 3rd round was a real winner. And let's not forget his killer FA moves like the Browncos d-line and the fact that he just in general just built shitty defense after shitty defense at the end of his tenure.

But yeah, I just pay no attention to the Broncos. Solid argument.

[TXBRONC]

And I've said multiple times Denver was completely right to fire him. But seriously, someone has to be the voice of reason among all the utter stupidity and hyperbole thrown out about him.

His roster moves were really no worse than a lot of Shanny's toward the end of his Broncos tenure, but I don't see anyone saying that he doesn't know how to evaluate talent.

You're not the voice of reason Wave.

[Davii]

You're right, a guy with 25000 posts on a Broncos message board probably doesn't pay a lot of attention to the Broncos. Solid point. Other than the good 06 draft, which I will admit was very good, Shanny made a ton of shit moves his last few years here. Hell, it's now been reported that he wanted Leinart in the first round of that draft, so who knows how much of that draft was really him now anyway. Look at his 05 and 07 drafts if you want to see some nice lists of busts. Maurice Clarett in the 3rd round was a real winner. And let's not forget his killer FA moves like the Browncos d-line and the fact that he just in general just built shitty defense after shitty defense at the end of his tenure.

But yeah, I just pay no attention to the Broncos. Solid argument.

That's not what I said numbnuts. If you think people HERE weren't spitting vitriol and hatred at Shanny you weren't paying attention HERE. In no way does that mean you weren't paying attention to the Broncos or is it calling your fan hood into question. Please reach down, grab hold, and remove your head from your ass.

[BroncoWave]

Good question...

LOL OK. You can count on one hand the number of people who look at McD's tenure here objectively and I am one of them. He certainly did make some horrible moves like the trade to draft Alphonso Smith and the pick of Dick Quinn. And his losing coupled with Spygate 2.0 was absolutely enough to warrant him being fired. He was absolutely not ready to be both a head coach and GM and it showed. I have time and time again been able to fully admit and discuss his numerous negatives as our coach here.

But I'm also not going to just sit and pretend that every single move he made was absolutely horrible, because that's just not being objective. He did draft guys like DT, Decker, Bruton, and Moreno. And also brought in a guy like Brian Dawkins as a FA. He made good roster moves. And yes he made bad ones too, but he's certainly not unique in that regard.

[BroncoWave]

That's not what I said numbnuts. If you think people HERE weren't spitting vitriol and hatred at Shanny you weren't paying attention HERE. In no way does that mean you weren't paying attention to the Broncos or is it calling your fan hood into question. Please reach down, grab hold, and remove your head from your ass.

Your wording of that post wasn't very clear in terms of what I wasn't paying attention to, so thank you for clarifying. Fair enough though, your point is well taken.

[Davii]

LOL OK. You can count on one hand the number of people who look at McD's tenure here objectively and I am one of them. He certainly did make some horrible moves like the trade to draft Alphonso Smith and the pick of Dick Quinn. And his losing coupled with Spygate 2.0 was absolutely enough to warrant him being fired. He was absolutely not ready to be both a head coach and GM and it showed. I have time and time again been able to fully admit and discuss his numerous negatives as our coach here.

But I'm also not going to just sit and pretend that every single move he made was absolutely horrible, because that's just not being objective. He did draft guys like DT, Decker, Bruton, and Moreno. And also brought in a guy like Brian Dawkins as a FA. He made good roster moves. And yes he made bad ones too, but he's certainly not unique in that regard.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Ravage!!!]

But I'm also not going to just sit and pretend that every single move he made was absolutely horrible, because that's just not being objective. He did draft guys like DT, Decker, Bruton, and Moreno. And also brought in a guy like Brian Dawkins as a FA. He made good roster moves. And yes he made bad ones too, but he's certainly not unique in that regard.

Had to draft DT because he got rid of a better receiver.... and you want to count Moreno as a positive draft choice? He had a single good season in Denver, and then was shippped out after his first contract. I don't know why you keep insisting that was such a great pick considering the very lack-luster career he ended up having.

He may not be unique in having bad choices, but he's unique in the fact that he led Denver to it's worst record in franchise history. That's more than JUST bad personel moves, thats just bad coaching. So what is it that you are defending, exactly?

Keep patting him on the back, though, it fits you.

[Ravage!!!]

Lets also be straight up and mention as to why McDoosh was trading Cutler for Cassle. It had nothing to do with Cutler's skills, but had everything to do with him wanting to bring Patriot players to fill the ranks. He wanted to follow Hoodie's career, and wanted to do it by getting rid of the incumbant QB. Hoodie wanted to get rid of Bledsoe but couldn't because he would have lost the locker room (and the Locker room being Bledsoe's is why hoodie wanted to get rid of him)..and then the miracle injury came. McDoosh was willing to simply bypass all of that and get rid of Cutler to put his guy in. So even his motives weren't really thinking about the good of the team, but for his own ego.

[GEM]

Let's stop with the getting personal and jabs at each other. Stick to the douchebag at hand, McDumbass. ;)

[Ravage!!!]

Here are their per game averages as pro running backs:

Moreno: 57.3 rush yds, .42 rush td, 22.4 rec yds, .14 rec TD
Hillis: 34.9 rush yds, .28 rush TD, 12.9 rec yds, .03 rec RD

Extrapolating those per game numbers to a 16 game season:

Moreno: 916 rush yds, 7 TD, 358 rec yds, 2 TD
Hillis: 558 rush yds, 4 TD, 206 rec yds, .5 TD

So yeah, kinda no doubt about who the more productive player was.

Peyton Hillis had 8 TOTAL starts as a Bronco. Yes, 8. And in those 8 starts (and 26 total games played), he produced a whopping 397 rushing yards. So yes, in his two seasons as a Bronco he produced 397 rushing yards. In Moreno's two best GAMES as a Bronco, he produced 385 rushing yards. So the two best GAMES of Moreno's career nearly equaled the production achieved by Hillis in two full SEASONS as a Bronco.

The fact that Moreno vs Hillis is even considered a debate by anyone is just silly.

Actually... lets DO look at it. Both their careers, they BOTH averaged 4.1 yrds per carry. Peyton's best season was 1,177 yrds (in cleveland)...where Knowshon's best career season was 1,038 yrds (denver). Knowshon had 180 more carries, and only 4 more TDs.

Peyton's longest rush 48 yards where Knowshon's was 36.

There is absolutely NO WAY you can tell me that Knowshon was better!! :lol: They were the same, yet you want to tell me how GREAT knowshon was while telling me how bad Hillis is?? You want to tell me how much McDoosh was right-on with Hillis and made a great pick with Knowshon again? It's laughable at best that you keep stroking these two guys so much.

[MOtorboat]

5025 yards and 36 touchdowns in six seasons or 3800 yards and 26 touchdowns in seven seasons?

At no time was Hillis ever better than Moreno, and especially never with Denver.

[Ravage!!!]

5025 yards and 36 touchdowns in six seasons or 3800 yards and 26 touchdowns in seven seasons?

At no time was Hillis ever better than Moreno, and especially never with Denver.

That's your opinion, not fact.

Hillis wasn't used in Denver while McDoosh was here..that was a HUGE deal during the time since everyone knew that Hillis was the best RB on the roster, yet McDork didn't want to use him.

There really was NO difference between the two RBs. They both averaged 4.1, and Hillis' single 1000+ yrd season was better than Moreno's single 1000+ yrd season.

Seems that you guys keep talking about how Hillis and Moreno were in DENVER, and not their career......yet brag how McDick was "right on" with Cutler. Yet, Cutler was a pro-bowler,in Denver, before trading him away. So are we talking career, or not?

[MOtorboat]

That's your opinion, not fact.

Hillis wasn't used in Denver while McDoosh was here..that was a HUGE deal during the time since everyone knew that Hillis was the best RB on the roster, yet McDork didn't want to use him.

There really was NO difference between the two RBs. They both averaged 4.1, and Hillis' single 1000+ yrd season was better than Moreno's single 1000+ yrd season.

Seems that you guys keep talking about how Hillis and Moreno were in DENVER, and not their career......yet brag how McDick was "right on" with Cutler. Yet, Cutler was a pro-bowler,in Denver, before trading him away. So are we talking career, or not?

We're not going to agree anyway. Moreno was clearly more productive in Denver and for his career. That is fact and is not debatable. As far as Cutler and his one Pro Bowl appearance and one playoff win, we are also going to disagree. The guy is below average.

[BroncoNut]

what I think is a bit creepy is this: Why is it such a concern to Josh McDaniels that Ron Grankowski doen't extend his arms when he's on top of him? I've played this over and over in my mind and it just doesn't seem to make sense

(I am so gonna get my ass kicked by Ron Grankowski, but I just couldn't help myself here)

[Ravage!!!]

We're not going to agree anyway. Moreno was clearly more productive in Denver and for his career. That is fact and is not debatable. As far as Cutler and his one Pro Bowl appearance and one playoff win, we are also going to disagree. The guy is below average.

Lol... so you agree that we are comparing Moreno's career while in Denver.. to Hillis, while in Denver?? Yet want to Compare the entire career of Cutler.

It's just funny that wave wants to hang his hat on comparing these players as being "good choices" when it's clearly evident that they are basically the same player....and since Hillis wasn't used by McDick while in Denver, it's not exactly a fair comparison to say "while in Denver." That's cherry picking to the utmost degree.

Either way, you are right. We aren't going to agree. You and wave think McDoosh is worth defending by giving horrible examples of good choices, and I absolutely do not think he's worth defending.

[MOtorboat]

Lol... so you agree that we are comparing Moreno's career while in Denver.. to Hillis, while in Denver?? Yet want to Compare the entire career of Cutler.

It's just funny that wave wants to hang his hat on comparing these players as being "good choices" when it's clearly evident that they are basically the same player....and since Hillis wasn't used by McDick while in Denver, it's not exactly a fair comparison to say "while in Denver." That's cherry picking to the utmost degree.

Either way, you are right. We aren't going to agree. You and wave think McDoosh is worth defending by giving horrible examples of good choices, and I absolutely do not think he's worth defending.

No. I am comparing their entire careers, where Moreno was also always better and the numbers bear that out. I am also acknowledging their production in Denver where they played together for one year and Moreno won the job.

[TXBRONC]

5025 yards and 36 touchdowns in six seasons or 3800 yards and 26 touchdowns in seven seasons?

At no time was Hillis ever better than Moreno, and especially never with Denver.

At no time in Moreno's slow ass career was he anything more than average. Trying to make a case that because guys like Scheffler didn't last long in League is silly. Where's Moreno, Quinn, McBath, and Alphonso Smith?

[MOtorboat]

At no time in Moreno's slow ass career was he anything more than average. Trying to make a case that because those didn't last long in League is silly. Where's Moreno, Quinn, McBath, and Alphonso Smith?

Nowhere did I mentioned whether he was average, below average or above average. He was average, but if he was average, Hillis was below average.

I don't know what those other two "sentences" mean.

[Davii]

Facts:

Above average > Moreno > Hillis

Literally every other coach in Bronco history > McDaniels

[TXBRONC]

Nowhere did I mentioned whether he was average, below average or above average. He was average, but if he was average, Hillis was below average.

I don't know what those other two "sentences" mean.

Matter of opinion . Hillis was also average.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Let's stop with the getting personal and jabs at each other. Stick to the douchebag at hand, McDumbass. ;)

:laugh:

I love you Gem.

:laugh:

[BroncoWave]

No. I am comparing their entire careers, where Moreno was also always better and the numbers bear that out. I am also acknowledging their production in Denver where they played together for one year and Moreno won the job.

Yeah but that's just cuz Hillis banged McD's wife durrrrrrrrr!

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah but that's just cuz Hillis banged McD's wife durrrrrrrrr!

Durrr.... I haven't heard that since 3rd grade. Good to see you are trying to bring that back.

But it certainly could have something to due with the fact that one was drafted by McDick and the other wasn't. Could also be due to the fact that Hillis wasn't swinging by McDoosh's nut sac. If you weren't, you were shipped. It was pretty clear that McDumbass wasn't really looking at players based on their talents, but how much they were devoted to him. Unless, you agree that it was a priority for us to sign that FA (patriot) longsnapper over the good one we already had??

His pattern was pretty obvious and clear.

Either way.... neither Knowshow or Hillis were anything special, but I certainly would not say Knowshow was anything better than Hillis..and certainly not one to try and use as an "example" as to how McDipshit was right on any choices.

[BroncoWave]

Durrr.... I haven't heard that since 3rd grade. Good to see you are trying to bring that back.

But it certainly could have something to due with the fact that one was drafted by McDick and the other wasn't. Could also be due to the fact that Hillis wasn't swinging by McDoosh's nut sac. If you weren't, you were shipped. It was pretty clear that McDumbass wasn't really looking at players based on their talents, but how much they were devoted to him. Unless, you agree that it was a priority for us to sign that FA (patriot) longsnapper over the good one we already had??

His pattern was pretty obvious and clear.

Either way.... neither Knowshow or Hillis were anything special, but I certainly would not say Knowshow was anything better than Hillis..and certainly not one to try and use as an "example" as to how McDipshit was right on any choices.

Yes because McD would totally be the first coach in NFL history to play his first round pick over a guy picked in the 7th round by a previous regime. That just stinks of a horrible coach! And you are admitting that neither one was anything special (using your words) so I don't really see what your point is here. If both players are on a similar level as you seem to be implying, pretty much every coach ever would play the guy that he spend a high first round pick on. That's just the way the business works.

If that's one of your criticisms of McD, it's a pretty damn weak one.

[Ravage!!!]

Yes because McD would totally be the first coach in NFL history to play his first round pick over a guy picked in the 7th round by a previous regime. That just stinks of a horrible coach! And you are admitting that neither one was anything special (using your words) so I don't really see what your point is here. If both players are on a similar level as you seem to be implying, pretty much every coach ever would play the guy that he spend a high first round pick on. That's just the way the business works.

If that's one of your criticisms of McD, it's a pretty damn weak one.

No.. wasn't one of my criticisms at all. It was your lame attempt of pointing out "good decisions" by the dipshit, saying what a good decision Knowshow was over Hillis. I"m just making the obvious point that knowshon starting over Hillis didn't mean anything considering McDip's pattern. There are a TON of reasons to see that McDumbass was a bad coach, but the Knowshow example was all on you. You tried to use that as a positive point, and its just fell right on your face.

[BroncoWave]

No.. wasn't one of my criticisms at all. It was your lame attempt of pointing out "good decisions" by the dipshit, saying what a good decision Knowshow was over Hillis. There are a TON of reasons to see that McDumbass was a bad coach, but the Knowshon example was all on you. You tried to use that as a positive point, and its just fell right on your face.

Not really. Both Mo and I pretty sufficiently proved using facts that Moreno has been a more productive player in his NFL career. There is also the matter of having watched them both play which makes it pretty obvious to anyone with two eyes who is the more talented player.

The only thing keeping Moreno's numbers from dwarfing Hillis' numbers far more than they already do is his injuries. And even with all of the injuries he has still had a more productive career. And assuming his rehab is going well this year, his career is still not done.

[BroncoWave]

Rav, this debate is pretty much going like every single one of the hundreds of debates we have had. I use facts, you use rhetoric. Does it not get old having your rhetoric getting beaten over the head with facts time and time again?

[GEM]

This whole thread just comes off as a huge pissing contest.

:laugh:

[DenBronx]

Yeah, it's an old and dumb argument. Anyone defending McDaniels is just going to get flammed to hell anyway. Please...for Gods sakes....stop defending that idiot.

I will say this, Moreno was an average back before Manning got here. His style fits a Manning offense to the T. Had he played his whole career with Manning then people wouldn't even try to compare Hillis with him. Dumb argument there too because their styles are vastly different.

[Ravage!!!]

Rav, this debate is pretty much going like every single one of the hundreds of debates we have had. I use facts, you use rhetoric. Does it not get old having your rhetoric getting beaten over the head with facts time and time again?

Yeah.. that's what you did. You obviously have the 'facts' down.

[GEM]

Enough out of you 2. Either stop the name calling or stop posting in the thread. Pissing contest and acting like kids needs to stop. Last warning.

[tomjonesrocks]

Thank you GEM.

I get mad just seeing the McD name. Die thread, die!

[BroncoWave]

Rav is my kneegrow. We all good.

But I do still love me some McDaniels. :D

[MOtorboat]

Thank you GEM.

I get mad just seeing the McD name. Die thread, die!

And you're not alone. So I don't ever expect to be able to discuss or analyze any of his moves with anyone because people just get blinded with anger the minute the name is posted.

The large majority of the moves he made were terrible. But not the ones everyone talks about. Moving Cutler was not a bad move, nether was Hillis or Scheffler. Marshall was. I'm not going to blanket every move he made as bad just because he turned out to be a bad head coach. That's not how it works.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

McButthole got two moves right, therefore he does not suck eggs.

[MOtorboat]

McButthole got two moves right, therefore he does not suck eggs.

Not even close to what was said. Great example.

[BroncoWave]

And you're not alone. So I don't ever expect to be able to discuss or analyze any of his moves with anyone because people just get blinded with anger the minute the name is posted.

The large majority of the moves he made were terrible. But not the ones everyone talks about. Moving Cutler was not a bad move, nether was Hillis or Scheffler. Marshall was. I'm not going to blanket every move he made as bad just because he turned out to be a bad head coach. That's not how it works.

I think he is slightly vindicated for getting rid of Marshall in that two more teams got sick of his crap and sent him packing as well. Then you had the reports that Shanny was considering flat out cutting him right before he got fired.

Marshall was certainly far and away the most talented guy he got rid of, no question about that, but dude was a total headcase back then who was probably one more instance of hitting his GF/wife away from a lengthy suspension if not jail.

[tomjonesrocks]

And you're not alone. So I don't ever expect to be able to discuss or analyze any of his moves with anyone because people just get blinded with anger the minute the name is posted. The large majority of the moves he made were terrible. But not the ones everyone talks about. Moving Cutler was not a bad move, nether was Hillis or Scheffler. Marshall was. I'm not going to blanket every move he made as bad just because he turned out to be a bad head coach. That's not how it works.

I'm still not sure how Hillis was a good move. We got Quinn in return who, despite turning out to be a very good teammate and class act, offered zero on the field.

Hillis was a brief phenomenon whose punishing style broke his body after one pretty impressive season. I'm not sure how Denver won out there.

Scheffler though I'm not going to look him up to my knowledge never eclipsed 800 yards receiving and retired after a series of concussions. Probably always an overrated player.

Cutler it makes no sense discussing. McD got it right -- but no way he "saw something and knew he would be a bust" IMO. Sheer luck, and he wasted the picks.

I will say a hurt DT over Dez was balls. That took big guts and years to work out.

[tomjonesrocks]

Oh and Moreno was on the verge of getting cut with the "sauced" Bentley before he showed up. Nice "guy that finally got it" story but that's and awful 12 pick or whatever it was any way you slice it.

[BroncoWave]

I will say a hurt DT over Dez was balls. That took big guts and years to work out.

Given that he had just gotten rid of Marshall for being a headcase, I can see how he would not want to replace him with another headcase. Agree it was a ballsy move with his foot issues, but it definitely worked out.

[DenBronx]

He drafted DT, Bruton and Decker. Those were good picks. But make no mistake about it McD is a fistpumping assclown.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Not even close to what was said. Great example.
Oh hush up Sally sober face. I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just throwing crap at the wall.

Carry on with the cat fight over a douche bag who was here 5 years ago.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Oh and Moreno was on the verge of getting cut with the "sauced" Bentley before he showed up. Nice "guy that finally got it" story but that's and awful 12 pick or whatever it was any way you slice it.

Moreno was a good player, but shouldn't have been the #12 pick in the draft. That's what McDoogie gets for using a color analysts draft board.

[Davii]

He drafted DT, Bruton and Decker. Those were good picks. But make no mistake about it McD is a fistpumping assclown.

I don't care if he made a few good moves, like I said earlier, even a broken clock is right twice a day. When evaluating McDickhead why would you look past his results? You want facts? Worst season in the history of the franchise, cheating scandal, didn't get along with players or coaches. Failure in ever aspect.

Those are facts.

[DenBronx]

He drafted DT, Bruton and Decker. Those were good picks. But make no mistake about it McD is a fistpumping assclown.

I don't care if he made a few good moves, like I said earlier, even a broken click is right twice a day. When evaluating McDickhead why would you look past his results? You want facts? Worst season in the history of the franchise, cheating scandal, didn't get along with players or coaches. Failure in ever aspect.

Those are facts.

I fully agree there. He treated the players like they were beneath him. Signing the long snapper really sent me over the edge too. Truth be told DT and Dez were pretty much locks to be good WRs anyway no matter who drafted them.

59-14 is all I needed to know about McDummy. Just like 43-8 in a SB is unacceptable. Bowlen nor Elway will put up with those kind of results. So coaches better expect and want to win if they coach or come here. I am sure the majority of the Broncos fan base feels that way too, we are a very impatient group and expect to win.

[wayninja]

He drafted DT, Bruton and Decker. Those were good picks. But make no mistake about it McD is a fistpumping assclown.

I'm pretty sure you meant asspumping fistclown. But whatever.

[BroncoWave]

I'm pretty sure you meant asspumping fistclown. But whatever.

Or assfisting pumpclown?

[wayninja]

Or assfisting pumpclown?

It's all gold.

[BroncoWave]

It's all gold.

No wait, I got it: clownfisting asspump

[Davii]

Or assfisting pumpclown?

Asspumping clownfister?

[Simple Jaded]

McDaniels only did one thing right, Mike Nolan, and then he ****** that up too. Every single other move was wrong.

He gets zero credit for the Fox regime getting usage out of his draft picks because had he not been fired they were all doomed to obscurity.

DT and Decker owe their 2nd contracts to the fact that the Broncos didn't waste any time and got some grown ups involved.

May God have mercy on his soul.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

McDaniels only did one thing right, Mike Nolan, every single other move was wrong.

He gets zero credit for the Fox regime getting usage out of his draft picks because had he not been fired they were all doomed to obscurity.

DT and Decker owe their 2nd contracts to the fact that the Broncos didn't waste any time and got some grown up involved.

May God have mercy on his soul.

McDoush got one half a season right with Nolan. He tried to control the defense in the 2nd half.

[Simple Jaded]

McDoush got one half a season right with Nolan. He tried to control the defense in the 2nd half.

Yep, and then "Mutually agreed" him after the season was over, my guess is McDaniels made a mistake hiring Nolan and didn't think Nolan could make chicken soup out of the chicken shit he was given.

[Northman]

I don't care if he made a few good moves, like I said earlier, even a broken clock is right twice a day. When evaluating McDickhead why would you look past his results? You want facts? Worst season in the history of the franchise, cheating scandal, didn't get along with players or coaches. Failure in ever aspect.

Those are facts.

Yeeeeeep.

[TXBRONC]

McDoush got one half a season right with Nolan. He tried to control the defense in the 2nd half.

If we were to be sticklers, he got the first six games right and then proceeded to 2-8 the rest of the way.

[TXBRONC]

He drafted DT, Bruton and Decker. Those were good picks. But make no mistake about it McD is a fistpumping assclown.

What I find incredible is when people will defend McDbag and praise him us D. Thomaa, Decker, Bruton, yet at the same time eviscerate Tebow who was also brought by that same pos. That is inconsistent at best.

[TXBRONC]

Yeeeeeep.

It doesn't matte thatr 'McDaniels brought in a few (very few) good players the credits is not his in anyway shape or form for developing them.

[Ravage!!!]

What I find incredible is when people will defend McDbag and praise him us D. Thomaa, Decker, Bruton, yet at the same time eviscerate Tebow who was also brought by that same pos. That is hypocritical.

To me... I like to point out that the ONLY reason we had to draft Thomas was because he traded away a better Marshall. The reason we had to draft Tebow, was because he tried to trade for Cassle and ended up with Orton. That. alone, is 2 first round picks we had to use to replace better players that were already on the roster, that McDoosh just wanted to get rid of because he wanted to stroke his own ego. He didn't get rid of Cutler because of his QBing, but because he wanted to fill the ranks with guys HE knew. Horrible. Then, scrambled to try and fill those holes (he created for no reason) with the draft.

I sure wonder a lot as to what this team COULD have had with the picks had we not had to use them on guys like Knowshon, and Tebow.

[Northman]

It doesn't matte thatr 'McDaniels brought in a few (very few) good players the credits is not his in anyway shape or form for developing them.

And this is the very crutch of it really. Its hard to give credit to McD for bringing in the guys he did because he didnt even know how to utilize them. That was further proved when Tebow went to NE and neither McD or Belichek could use Tebow in any capacity. You would think the guy who thought so highly of Tebow and drafted him in the first round would know how to use the very guy he liked so much. So no, even with players like DT, Decker, and so on i wont give any credit to McD for that. I mean a monkey of could of thrown shit at the wall and made it stick but it takes a real coach to actually be able to use said talent. McD is good at one and that is being a OC, outside of that forget about it. Of course he has had a future HOF'r to work with so maybe its actually more of him being a Caldwell type of coach than any real genius there in that regard.

[Ravage!!!]

And this is the very crutch of it really. Its hard to give credit to McD for bringing in the guys he did because he didnt even know how to utilize them. That was further proved when Tebow went to NE and neither McD or Belichek could use Tebow in any capacity. You would think the guy who thought so highly of Tebow and drafted him in the first round would know how to use the very guy he liked so much. So no, even with players like DT, Decker, and so on i wont give any credit to McD for that. I mean a monkey of could of thrown shit at the wall and made it stick but it takes a real coach to actually be able to use said talent. McD is good at one and that is being a OC, outside of that forget about it. Of course he has had a future HOF'r to work with so maybe its actually more of him being a Caldwell type of coach than any real genius there in that regard.

Yeah.. he didn't prove to be such a good OC when he wasn't teamed with *Hoodie and *Brady.

[Davii]

Yeah.. he didn't prove to be such a good OC when he wasn't teamed with *Hoodie and *Brady.

You mean he didn't light the world on fire in St. Louis?

[NightTerror218]

McDaniels may be have the HC but he was not the only guy in the war room for the draft.

[TXBRONC]

You mean he didn't light the world on fire in St. Louis?

He's made Sam Bradford into one of the best quarterback's in the League.

#HoF

[Ravage!!!]

He's made Sam Bradford into one of the best quarterback's in the League.

#HoF

I would put money on the guess that we see McDick teamed up with the McCowboys next season. Jerry doesn't care if they put an * next to their name when more cheating from McDork arrises, he'll just call it a "star."

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I would put money on the guess that we see McDick teamed up with the McCowboys next season. Jerry doesn't care if they put an * next to their name when more cheating from McDork arrises, he'll just call it a "star."

Haha, that's funny, "it's not an asterisk, it's a star ".

[Ravage!!!]

McDaniels may be have the HC but he was not the only guy in the war room for the draft.

He's the one that claimed that they got the ones they wanted.

[Ravage!!!]

McDaniels may be have the HC but he was not the only guy in the war room for the draft.

He was the one running the show and making the picks, that's for sure. He made it very clear, to EVERYONE, that he was KING, and nothing less than kissing his ring should/would be tolerated.

[TXBRONC]

McDaniels may be have the HC but he was not the only guy in the war room for the draft.

True, he was in control of the war room. He selected the players he wanted.