Brock Osweiler on the cover of the new SI

[VonDoom]

Beating the Patriots is a big deal:

8085

[tripp]

This draft class has been pretty incredible in terms of QB's. Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Nick Foles (lol), Ryan Tannehill, Brock Osweiler, Brandon Weeden (lol), RG3 (lol).

All those QB's have at one point started for a team with the idea of being the future QB. Pretty impressive regardless of how hard RG3, Foles, and Weeden have fell flat on their faces.

[OrangeHoof]

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that Osweiler is a Montana kid, not a Mississippi kid. He doesn't seem to be affected by bad weather conditions the way Manning is. In optimal weather conditions and good health, give me Manning. In bad weather, give me Ozzy.

[Joel]

Yea, the latest Sports Illustrated cover shows us holding a Cheatriot pass rusher in a game where they're ALREADY claiming the refs jobbed them! :rolleyes:

[tripp]

Yea, the latest Sports Illustrated cover shows us holding a Cheatriot pass rusher in a game where they're ALREADY claiming the refs jobbed them! :rolleyes:

Didn't even notice that till you mentioned it. Something tells me it was intentional.

[Northman]

Brock be like,,,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNFft6r6Des

[Joel]

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that Osweiler is a Montana kid, not a Mississippi kid. He doesn't seem to be affected by bad weather conditions the way Manning is. In optimal weather conditions and good health, give me Manning. In bad weather, give me Ozzy.
That's possibly a factor, but I've always thought Indys sheltered dome was a far greater factor in his outdoor postseason woes. And I've long thought those overstated regardless; the infamous "never won a playoff game <40°" is cherry-picked from his coldest playoff win, @KC the year he won the SB: No, Manning's never won a playoff game colder than this coldest win, but that's a tautology, not a revelation. Now that he's had a few seasons in Denver, I'm fairly confident he's adjusted, as people do.

I'm a Houston native, but 60° or even the high-fifties feels like T-shirt weather after 5 years in Norway. My first year in WI I walked to the store in T-shirt and shorts when it was sunny but in the low twenties, because that felt comfortable after a long winter of heavy snow and temps regularly dipping to zero. Another Gulf Coast native famously had a similar experience: Brett Favre just got better and better as Lambeaus "frozen tundra" got colder and colder. Biology's all about adaptation.

[UnderArmour]

Yea, the latest Sports Illustrated cover shows us holding a Cheatriot pass rusher in a game where they're ALREADY claiming the refs jobbed them! :rolleyes:

Except it isn't holding by rule.


Rule 12 Player Conduct Section 1 Blocking, Use of Hands, Arms, and Body

ILLEGAL BLOCKS BY OFFENSIVE PLAYER:

Article 4 An offensive blocker cannot:

(c) use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

(i) grabbing or tackling an opponent;

(ii) hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or

(iii) pulling him to the ground.

Penalty: For holding, illegal use of hands, arms, or body by the offense: Loss of 10 yards.

Now, here's the sub-sub-subsection explaining why it isn't a hold:

Blocking notes:

(1) When a defensive player is held by an offensive player during the following situations, offensive holding will not be called:

(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding.

Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the offensive player’s action
Per the rulebook: http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

Check the picture again. Because the defender is obviously using a rip technique, holding will not be called.

[Joel]

Except it isn't holding by rule.


Per the rulebook: http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

Check the picture again. Because the defender is obviously using a rip technique, holding will not be called.
Please explain how that's "obviously" a rip. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't, but it's far from "obvious" to me. I can tell you my foreign wife knows nothing about football except what I've told her, but even SHE recognized, unprompted, that one our guys was pulling one of theirs, at which I point I simply said, "and that's a 10 yd penalty."

[UnderArmour]

Please explain how that's "obviously" a rip. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't, but it's far from "obvious" to me. I can tell you my foreign wife knows nothing about football except what I've told her, but even SHE recognized, unprompted, that one our guys was pulling one of theirs, at which I point I simply said, "and that's a 10 yd penalty."

Do you not know what a rip move is? Look at the position of the defender's arm in the picture. The defender clearly put his arm underneath the offense lineman's arm, "ripping" it, preventing the offensive lineman from retracting and adjusting his arm. Just in case you need to learn what a rip move is, here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRMtknRj5o

You can watch it in live action, but it's clearly a rip: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CVJ-1V-XIAEou6k.mp4 (Ignore the captions, the person who did the video does not understand holding rules either)

[LawDog]

Please explain how that's "obviously" a rip. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't, but it's far from "obvious" to me. I can tell you my foreign wife knows nothing about football except what I've told her, but even SHE recognized, unprompted, that one our guys was pulling one of theirs, at which I point I simply said, "and that's a 10 yd penalty."

A still photo where you can't see the O lineman's hand, but you can see the defender holding onto the lineman's arm, and you can tell who was pulling whom? That's some magic viewing right there...

[blamkin86]

It's a conspiracy!

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/tQ_37cOV-l5DrQ5mqVL9FHTT-o0=/1230x0/filters:format(webp)/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/47775085/QENreCW.0.0.jpg

[silkamilkamonico]

Maybe some day beating the Broncos will be a big deal.

[Timmy!]

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that Osweiler is a Montana kid, not a Mississippi kid. He doesn't seem to be affected by bad weather conditions the way Manning is. In optimal weather conditions and good health, give me Manning. In bad weather, give me Ozzy.

I've been pimping the Montana part for years...and ya, cold/snow won't be an issue. Current temp: 2

[Northman]

I want to hear more about Joel's mail order bride.

[TimHippo]

I want to hear more about Joel's mail order bride.

Norwegian, maybe.

[BroncoJoe]

I want to hear more about Joel's mail order bride.

Actually, I think he was a mail order groom.

[LawDog]

Actually, I think he was a mail order groom.

As is, no warranty express or implied.

[BroncoNut]

Didn't even notice that till you mentioned it. Something tells me it was intentional.

well, that could be anyone's arm

[BroncoNut]

I want to hear more about Joel's mail order bride.

wait, wut? Joel, give us the skinny you old dog you!

[chazoe60]

Is there a bee in the room, because in starting to hear a buzz.

[chazoe60]

I want to hear more about Joel's mail order bride.

Love can not be coerced, but apparently it can be purchased?

[Joel]

Do you not know what a rip move is? Look at the position of the defender's arm in the picture. The defender clearly put his arm underneath the offense lineman's arm, "ripping" it, preventing the offensive lineman from retracting and adjusting his arm. Just in case you need to learn what a rip move is, here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRMtknRj5o

You can watch it in live action, but it's clearly a rip: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CVJ-1V-XIAEou6k.mp4 (Ignore the captions, the person who did the video does not understand holding rules either)
I know what it is; what I DON'T know is how grabbing an armbar across ones neck is "obviously" a rip, not a natural reaction to a clothesline. Sure doesn't look like our guy's dipped the other way as on a rip, and it's not like they're at the line: The Cheats guy is already BY our blockers whole body—except the arm across his throat.


A still photo where you can't see the O lineman's hand, but you can see the defender holding onto the lineman's arm, and you can tell who was pulling whom? That's some magic viewing right there...
That's the great thing about an armbar: It enables pulling without the need of grabbing. That's also why it's illegal.

[Dreadnought]

Is there a bee in the room, because in starting to hear a buzz.

That's almost worthy of a thread of its own. The "Brock Osweiler Buzz Thread" I think

[LawDog]

That's the great thing about an armbar: It enables pulling without the need of grabbing. That's also why it's illegal.

That's the great thing about a sandwich, it enables pickles without the need of sardines. #JoelLogic

[BroncoJoe]

Good grief, Joel. Brock is on the cover of SI. Why do you feel the need to find something wrong with it?

[LawDog]

Good grief, Joel. Brock is on the cover of SI. Why do you feel the need to find something wrong with it?

Because, Elsa* and stuff.

*Name changed to protect the innocent.

[BroncoNut]

Good grief, Joel. Brock is on the cover of SI. Why do you feel the need to find something wrong with it?
because there's a hold on a new England pass rusher. Joel brought up a good point and I'm glad he did. not everyone's a Rebecca from sunnybrook farm

[Joel]

Because, Elsa* and stuff.

*Name changed to protect the innocent.
Even Elsa immediately recognized that as a hold, but she's not as heavily invested in the Broncos (actually, I think she's a bit sick of them. :redface:)

[BroncoNut]

Even Elsa immediately recognized that as a hold, but she's not as heavily invested in the Broncos (actually, I think she's a bit sick of them. :redface:)

which reminds me, who is the leading sled dog team now?

[Joel]

which reminds me, who is the leading sled dog team now?
I honestly have no idea, but I hope they're not racing around here, because the rain keeps melting the snow so it refreezes as ice. If not for spikes, I'd likely be in the hospital with two broken hips.

[BroncoNut]

I honestly have no idea, but I hope they're not racing around here, because the rain keeps melting the snow so it refreezes as ice. If not for spikes, I'd likely be in the hospital with two broken hips.
yeah, spikerman's good people. I met him at a restaurant with North and Missy. How long has he been in Norway anyway?

[Joel]

yeah, spikerman's good people. I met him at a restaurant with North and Missy. How long has he been in Norway anyway?
What a coincidence; I was just talking to Dave about you. :tongue:

[Valar Morghulis]

What a coincidence; I was just talking to Dave about you. :tongue:


Hahaha lmao that's what I am talking about.

I also thought what gappee said was funny too

[Joel]

Hahaha lmao that's what I am talking about.

I also thought what gappee said was funny too
It was, but the timing was to perfect to ignore. ;)

[UnderArmour]

I know what it is; what I DON'T know is how grabbing an armbar across ones neck is "obviously" a rip, not a natural reaction to a clothesline. Sure doesn't look like our guy's dipped the other way as on a rip, and it's not like they're at the line: The Cheats guy is already BY our blockers whole body—except the arm across his throat.


That's the great thing about an armbar: It enables pulling without the need of grabbing. That's also why it's illegal.

It is OBVIOUS the guy used a rip move. I simplified it for you:
8088
Apparently you do not know. Reread my initial post. Once the defender initiates that move, the offensive lineman can "hold" as a counter. Yes, even "armbar" the player.


You're wrong.

[Joel]

It is OBVIOUS the guy used a rip move. I simplified it for you:
8088
Apparently you do not know. Reread my initial post. Once the defender initiates that move, the offensive lineman can "hold" as a counter. Yes, even "armbar" the player.

You're wrong.
Yeah, I saw that the defender had his arm under the blockers: What NEITHER of us can see is whether he put it there to do a rip or to remove that arm from his THROAT. The fact he's already by the rest of the blocker, into the backfield and the blocker isn't tipped the other direction suggest otherwise, but I concede that's not conclusive (just highly suggestive.) MAYBE it was a rip, maybe not; what IS indisputably clear is that our guy has his arm and NOTHING ELSE impeding a pass rusher by the neck.

So UNLESS it was a rip (and the evidence is insufficient either way, though I still contend it's unsupportive of a rip) it was a textbook hold.

[UnderArmour]

Yeah, I saw that the defender had his arm under the blockers: What NEITHER of us can see is whether he put it there to do a rip or to remove that arm from his THROAT. The fact he's already by the rest of the blocker, into the backfield and the blocker isn't tipped the other direction suggest otherwise, but I concede that's not conclusive (just highly suggestive.) MAYBE it was a rip, maybe not; what IS indisputably clear is that our guy has his arm and NOTHING ELSE impeding a pass rusher by the neck.

So UNLESS it was a rip (and the evidence is insufficient either way, though I still contend it's unsupportive of a rip) it was a textbook hold.
It was a textbook rip. The evidence is conclusive to a trained NFL referee watching in real time.

The video was posted earlier in the thread by me: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CVJ-1V-XIAEou6k.mp4 (Ignore the captions; poster of video was wrong.) Go watch it frame by frame. That's a rip.

[Joel]

It was a textbook rip. The evidence is conclusive to a trained NFL referee watching in real time.

The video was posted earlier in the thread by me: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CVJ-1V-XIAEou6k.mp4 (Ignore the captions; poster of video was wrong.) Go watch it frame by frame. That's a rip.
Ah, very sorry, I thought you were just posting demonstration videos of rips GENERALLY, not that specific play. And you're right, that video does clearly show it was a rip, so I was wrong; objection withdrawn, with apologies. Good luck convincing the Cheatriots though.

[NightTerror218]

Good grief, Joel. Brock is on the cover of SI. Why do you feel the need to find something wrong with it?

He is a joke that is why.


Go cheer for Texas joel.

[NightTerror218]

It is OBVIOUS the guy used a rip move. I simplified it for you:
<img src="http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8088"/>
Apparently you do not know. Reread my initial post. Once the defender initiates that move, the offensive lineman can "hold" as a counter. Yes, even "armbar" the player.

You're wrong.

Armbar would have been an easy holding penalty call. Since this was not called, I assume you are correct. Did we ha e a single holding penalty called this game? Garcia had several in previous games.

[BroncoNut]

What a coincidence; I was just talking to Dave about you. :tongue:


Hahaha lmao that's what I am talking about.

I also thought what gappee said was funny too

I don't get this

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Is it Brocktoberfest? Not quite, but Broncos quarterback Brock Osweiler is getting notice.

A week after he was named the AFC offensive player of the week, the 25-year-old will be gracing the regional cover of this week’s cover of Sports Illustrated, which will be released Wednesday. Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James is on the national cover.

The issue will be available in Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas and Wyoming.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/12/01/brock-osweiler-to-be-featured-on-sports-illustrated-regional-cover/36655/

[MOtorboat]

**** you SI.

Available in Louisiana and Texas, but not four hours from Denver.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

**** you SI.

Available in Louisiana and Texas, but not four hours from Denver.

I didn't understand that either

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here Mo - send them an email

http://www.si.com/contact

[Simple Jaded]

That's the great thing about a sandwich, it enables pickles without the need of sardines. #JoelLogic

I have a feeling that I was a lot smarter this would be really funny.

[Joel]

I have a feeling that I was a lot smarter this would be really funny.
The analogy actually works better the other way (since a sandwich typically involves multiple things superfluous if all one really WANTS is a pickle) but it's a moot point: It was a rip, not a hold; UnderArmour was right and I was wrong. It's a good example of how the rulebook makes a refs job harder though, because without its stated exceptions that WOULD be a hold, and it's impossible to know whether any of those exceptions apply without seeing what happened before the photo.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I've been pimping the Montana part for years...and ya, cold/snow won't be an issue. Current temp: 2

What's the scoop on Matt Miller these days?

[Simple Jaded]

The analogy actually works better the other way (since a sandwich typically involves multiple things superfluous if all one really WANTS is a pickle) but it's a moot point: It was a rip, not a hold; UnderArmour was right and I was wrong. It's a good example of how the rulebook makes a refs job harder though, because without its stated exceptions that WOULD be a hold, and it's impossible to know whether any of those exceptions apply without seeing what happened before the photo.
If your intention was to make sure it was not funny, mission accomplished.

[Joel]

If your intention was to make sure it was not funny, mission accomplished.
My mission was to note that I conceded UnderArmours valid point, mooting the other point.

[NightTrainLayne]

**** you SI.

Available in Louisiana and Texas, but not four hours from Denver.

I received it in Oklahoma. . .8 hours from Denver. :D

[Valar Morghulis]

I received it in Oklahoma. . .8 hours from Denver. :D

Lol, nothing on the UK is 8 hrs away from me

[NightTrainLayne]

Lol, nothing on the UK is 8 hrs away from me

LOL, and Oklahoma borders Colorado! :D

I may actually be 10-11 hours now that I think about it.

Fun Texas Fact: You can start in Texas and drive on a more-or-less straight line for 12+ hours and still be in Texas.

[Joel]

LOL, and Oklahoma borders Colorado! :D

I may actually be 10-11 hours now that I think about it.

Fun Texas Fact: You can start in Texas and drive on a more-or-less straight line for 12+ hours and still be in Texas.
Both N/S and E/W, at highway speed. Though my friend in L.A. says the daytime speed limit on I-10 goes up to 80 (135 for you, Dave) in West Texas, because you can't hit anything but coyotes or cactus: There's NOTHING else in front of you until the foothills of the Rockies. If anyone's driving through there after reading this, he also said cops start writing tickets the instant the sun dips below the horizon.

Anyway, yeah, TX really is huge; unfortunately, North and West Texas are awful country and the tornado capital of the world. Heck, North Texas is so bad we sold it to the US, and when they realized their mistake they gave it to the Indians.... ;)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Lol, nothing on the UK is 8 hrs away from me

Wow, I didn't realize how small the land mass was. It's only 10% bigger than Idaho. I'm so glad we don't have that many people living in Idaho.

[ShaneFalco]

I think Brock is receiving way too much attention,

Dont want to see it go to his head.

[Joel]

Wow, I didn't realize how small the land mass was. It's only 10% bigger than Idaho. I'm so glad we don't have that many people living in Idaho.
What's crazy is how much of that's in just a few English cities. Every time I think about the NFL expanding to Europe, I always think it makes sense to start with a team in each UK country and rely on regional rivalries—then I start looking for Irish, Scottish and Welsh markets big enough to support an NFL team and that idea just crumbles.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

What's crazy is how much of that's in just a few English cities. Every time I think about the NFL expanding to Europe, I always think it makes sense to start with a team in each UK country and rely on regional rivalries—then I start looking for Irish, Scottish and Welsh markets big enough to support an NFL team and that idea just crumbles.

Where could they put a team, aside from London?

[ShaneFalco]

Dublin

[Joel]

Where could they put a team, aside from London?
Manchester, and it even makes sense, because the Glazers own both the Bucs and Man U. Possibly Birmingham also, if that's not too close (<100 miles.)

Outside England though, it looks tough: Glasgow's probably biggest, but still <2 million metro, and the rest are considerably smaller. Best bet would be go to the capitals and pray.


Dublin
That's the other potential problem with a "UK" division (ideally adding a "continental" division after a few years:) Dublin's not in the UK, so how do you handle THAT issue?

[I Eat Staples]

I think Brock is receiving way too much attention,

Dont want to see it go to his head.

I don't think it will, he seems exceptionally calm and composed in his interviews. I think he learned from Peyton how to be a great professional and team player both on and off the field, which is awesome.

He's fiery and passionate on the field, and a calm professional with the media. Perfect way to be IMO.