Prognosticators still saying Manning should start? Trent Dilfer types. Sigh. Here is the dilemma. [Archive]

Broncoknight30

11-30-2015, 07:58 AM

These fools all bring up the ONE issue that seems to matter to the ignorant. Passing. There you go. it is a "passing league" and they claim since Manning does that so much better than Oz, that he ought to be the starter.

Here is the dilemma with all of this.

When Peyton Manning is "healthy" he still cannot run the Kubiak offense. Do any of you think Manning (even if his ouchy on his foot is miraculously fixed) think he can be under center running keepers and bootlegs? Do any of you now see the effect that has on the running game? The Broncos had the 30th ranked rushing offense through the first 9 games. The last two weeks, they are number 1 in rushing.

For those that love to blame the OL and think it was just so bad (it was not good and I admit that), and that is the main reason Manning is ranked 33rd in the NFL in passing should consider this. Russell Wilson now has about as many attempts as Manning. He has been sacked 37 times. Manning has been sacked 15 times. Russell Wilson is ranked 4th in passer rating in the NFL. What, is Manning more elusive than Wilson?

So, back to the dilemma. If we all agree that Manning cannot run the stretch run and I think the most ignorant Bronco fan agrees with that, then that means the hybrid pistol thing needs to be run. The running game suffers. Along with the fact that the offense is then split into two different game plans. The OL, RBs, WRs etc etc. That further complicates issues.

It is far better for the entire offense (back ups included) are all on the same page with the same basic game plan regardless of who is in there. That, is not the case if the Broncos go back to Manning.

There will be immense pressure on the Broncos to bring Manning back into the starting line up. If the Broncos continue to run the ball like this and the offense continues to operate this efficient under Oz, then I am sorry. They will need to cut Manning loose. Him being there causes all sorts of problems.

Nomad

11-30-2015, 08:01 AM

I thought Osweiler did a damn good job last night.

Northman

11-30-2015, 08:07 AM

Right now Manning is not really passing all that great, even when healthy. This scenario is so much different than the Elway/Brister scenario because Elway was still playing at a high level when he went down and eventually came back. Right now Brock is playing much better than Manning despite the inexperience. In a perfect world it would be nice to see Manning ride off in the sunset but i think that ship has sailed and our best chance was 2012 and 2013. We let those opportunities pass.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 08:25 AM

This is going to be like a Tebow circus. Ugh.

Foochacho

11-30-2015, 08:30 AM

If manning starts our running game will disappear again. That alone is enough reason to never want manning back in.

Edmonton Bronco Fan

11-30-2015, 08:45 AM

Was Manning in the box last night? I'm going to rewatch the game on DVR today since I missed most of the first half but was just wondering.

Think that this is Brock's team until he gives you a reason to stop believing in him (which doesn't look like it's going to happen). That would be the common sense thing to do.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:04 AM

"We just did our job better up front," Anderson said. "It doesn't matter if Brock was under center. It was the same game we played (versus) Green Bay when Peyton was in the pistol. We just executed our job up front, and if we execute we can do in the backfield, up front, at receiver, at tight end, if everybody does their job and not worry about nobody else's, we'll be a tough team to beat."

"We ran the same offense the Green Bay game," Anderson said. "We still ran the ball effectively. We still threw the ball effectively, and we still came out with the win vs. Green Bay playing well on offense.

"It's not like, just because Brock is under center, our offense automatically opens up. Nah, like I said before, we just executed better."

http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/11/24/9790234/brock-osweiler-cj-anderson-peyton-manning

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:05 AM

I can't find the exact quote but CJ said something about they played hard for Brock and when Peyton comes back they'll play hard for him too.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

11-30-2015, 09:15 AM

I love Manning, but I haven't seen him throw like that in bad weather.

Broncoknight30

11-30-2015, 09:20 AM

I can't find the exact quote but CJ said something about they played hard for Brock and when Peyton comes back they'll play hard for him too.

Oh boy. Is that what it will take? "Playing harder?"

TXBRONC

11-30-2015, 09:23 AM

This is going to be like a Tebow circus. Ugh.

I don't think that will happen D.D.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:26 AM

Oh boy. Is that what it will take? "Playing harder?"

No. He said they're already playing hard. Some seem to think the team is playong hard for Brock but not Peyton. People act like Peyton started the season like Orton. How many games did we win with Peyton?

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:26 AM

I don't think that will happen D.D.

It's already that annoying. I was going to wear a Broncos jersey today but I don't want someone ******* asking about our QB controversy.

OrangeFanatic

11-30-2015, 09:33 AM

I think Manning could still play for a team with a great offensive line. That's not this team.

Mike

11-30-2015, 09:43 AM

No. He said they're already playing hard. Some seem to think the team is playong hard for Brock but not Peyton. People act like Peyton started the season like Orton. How many games did we win with Peyton?

The team may be playing hard for both, but only one seems capable of running the offense to get the most benefit out of it.

The defense won 6 games when Peyton started, Peyton played well in 1. He is done. It doesn't take a genius to see that. Brock may or may not be the answer, but Manning certainly isn't. If Manning comes back to play then I will have lost all faith in Kubiak and Elway. It's absolutely the wrong decision for the team.

chazoe60

11-30-2015, 09:45 AM

Some of you are being ridiculous.

OrangeFanatic

11-30-2015, 09:54 AM

I love Manning, but I haven't seen him throw like that in bad weather.

My wife brought this up multiple times last night. Something about how a duck doesn't fly very well in the snow.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:58 AM

So the defense hasn't been doing anything lately?

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:59 AM

Some of you are being ridiculous.

I agree. But I probably disagree about who it is.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 09:59 AM

I like Peyton. I like Brock. I'll be happy with whoever they start. I just don't want to hear a bunch of nonsense either way they choose.

Northman

11-30-2015, 12:16 PM

I like Peyton. I like Brock. I'll be happy with whoever they start. I just don't want to hear a bunch of nonsense either way they choose.

Comes with the territory as a fan really. If Peyton comes back i hope he's able to play like he did vs GB, if he plays like he did in the rest of the games i really dont want to mess with the new mojo.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

11-30-2015, 12:17 PM

Northman

11-30-2015, 12:21 PM

Green Bays defense is awful, fwiw.

True, i think its obvious they were not quite as good as their record had indicated when we went into that game. But, it was the best i had seen Manning play all year in terms of accuracy, etc. Unfortunately i think Peyton's time has passed and i really dont see him getting the starting job back if Brock continues to win with the team. It just wouldnt make sense from a scheme standpoint when you have a guy who is running the offense the way it was meant to be.

BroncoJoe

11-30-2015, 12:22 PM

Baring a complete failure by Brock, I can't really see how Manning takes the field again - unless we have our playoff positioning settled at some point.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

11-30-2015, 12:23 PM

True, i think its obvious they were not quite as good as their record had indicated when we went into that game. But, it was the best i had seen Manning play all year in terms of accuracy, etc. Unfortunately i think Peyton's time has passed and i really dont see him getting the starting job back if Brock continues to win with the team. It just wouldnt make sense from a scheme standpoint when you have a guy who is running the offense the way it was meant to be.

We're also coming into the time of year when weather becomes an issue. Last night would have likely been a blowout if Manning had played. I can only remember him having one decent game in bad weather.

TXBRONC

11-30-2015, 12:45 PM

It's already that annoying. I was going to wear a Broncos jersey today but I don't want someone ******* asking about our QB controversy.

Ah I didn't make it very clear. The quarterback controversy is the outside world's problem to deal with inside Dove Valley I fretting about this at all.

TXBRONC

11-30-2015, 12:52 PM

Comes with the territory as a fan really. If Peyton comes back i hope he's able to play like he did vs GB, if he plays like he did in the rest of the games i really dont want to mess with the new mojo.

If offense keeps getting better over the next few weeks while Manning is out I don't know Kubiak is going want to mess with chemistry that is obviously being built.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

11-30-2015, 12:54 PM

Having two quarterbacks who can win games is a good problem to have. There are teams who don't have one.

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 12:56 PM

If they bring Manning back in, it would be a worse move than even anything McDaniels ever did. I just can't even fathom a world in which Elway/Kubes would do something so asinine.

Timmy!

11-30-2015, 01:13 PM

If they bring Manning back in, it would be a worse move than even anything McDaniels ever did. I just can't even fathom a world in which Elway/Kubes would do something so asinine.

Get ready, because IF and I mean IF Manning ever gets to 100% they will put him out there. Its going to happen, and I'm happy I'm not the one who has to make that call. I ride either way. Nostratimmy has spoken.

Nomad

11-30-2015, 01:17 PM

Having two quarterbacks who can win games is a good problem to have. There are teams who don't have one.

Right on! I read where Peyton gave Brock some halftime adjustments, and it seemed to work......good to see Peyton willing to help out. Whether right or wrong in the eyes of the fan base, I see Manning starting if he's healthy. He hasn't been demoted. He has only been sidelined due to injuries. It seems Osweiler is doing a fine job at maintaining. You're correct to have the brains and the brawn working side by side.

I Eat Staples

11-30-2015, 01:44 PM

They can't get over the fact that his name is "Peyton Manning." If any other QB had been performing the same way as Peyton through those first 9 games, every single analyst everywhere would be saying Brock should be the starter. Yeah, it's a passing league; Peyton Manning can't pass the ball well anymore. Brock can.

If the Broncos go back to Peyton, I'd be more angry than I've ever been at the team. Our chance of competing for a Superbowl would completely go down the drain.

TXBRONC

11-30-2015, 02:06 PM

If they bring Manning back in, it would be a worse move than even anything McDaniels ever did. I just can't even fathom a world in which Elway/Kubes would do something so asinine.

If Osweiler falls apart (which I don't see happening) then I could see them going back to Manning.

Locnar

11-30-2015, 02:15 PM

We all knew Peyton AT HIS BEST can't play in the cold weather. Well.. Cold weather is here folks!

Joel

11-30-2015, 03:05 PM

So the argument is that we averaged 5 yds/carry SOLELY (or even primarily) because Oz can run boots? THAT'S why CJ's back to making a quick cut and going over and through tacklers instead of dancing around and tripping over them? It couldn't be that we had our two best run blocking guards in most of the game and that he's no longer nursing the toe that hobbled him prior to the bye? This argument's as factually challenged as the "Manning hates to run" narrative.

Meanwhile, Caldwell and Latimer had great nights with the QB they've practiced with every week since joining the team, while DT had the worst night of ANY heavily targeted WR in the last FIFTEEN YEARS. When a playoff game's on the line, would you rather have the QB who knows our #4 WR, or the one who threw our #1 WR a SB record 13 completions?

If Manning's healthy last night and we give HIM 150 rushing yds and 3 TDs worth of run support, we win by two scores in regulation. For one thing, he doesn't eat a 20 yd sack that knocks us out of easy FG range. I'm not saying Oz played badly; he played very well, even without considering the conditions, the pass rush, the awful protection and the fact he'd only started ONE other pro game. I'm just saying he's not a first ballot HoFer yet, and the guy who is has NEVER had that kind of run support, else he'd have won his last SB.

If he comes back depends on how fast he heals how soon, because if he's not close to 100% by at least Week 16 so we have a regular season game to knock off rust and get everyone back on the same page, I think we have to go into the playoffs with what the team's gotten in rhythm with, not try to switch gears again during elimination games.

chazoe60

11-30-2015, 03:11 PM

People seem to be forgetting Manning's penchant for throwing picks that goes back further than just this season. Manning has not been good since about week 10 last season. The Peyton of 2013 is not walking through that door folks. If Peyton started last night we lose that game by double digits.

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 03:24 PM

If Osweiler falls apart (which I don't see happening) then I could see them going back to Manning.

That would be the only scenario in which it would make sense. If he keeps up his current level of play and still gets benched for Peyton, then the coaches are showing that they care more about what the name on the back of his jersey is than if we actually win or not.

Cugel

11-30-2015, 03:25 PM

When Peyton Manning is "healthy" he still cannot run the Kubiak offense. Do any of you think Manning (even if his ouchy on his foot is miraculously fixed) think he can be under center running keepers and bootlegs? Do any of you now see the effect that has on the running game? The Broncos had the 30th ranked rushing offense through the first 9 games. The last two weeks, they are number 1 in rushing.

For those that love to blame the OL and think it was just so bad (it was not good and I admit that), and that is the main reason Manning is ranked 33rd in the NFL in passing should consider this. Russell Wilson now has about as many attempts as Manning. He has been sacked 37 times. Manning has been sacked 15 times. Russell Wilson is ranked 4th in passer rating in the NFL. What, is Manning more elusive than Wilson?

Manning played in the shot-gun the whole season, and he gets rid of the ball quicker than any QB in the NFL.

More to the point is how often Brock Osweiler gets sacked. He's a LOT more mobile and athletic than Peyton, yet he has been sacked 11 times in 2 and 1/3 games. Extend that over a 16 game season and he'd be sacked 75.5 times in a single season! That would lead the league by a huge margin. In fact, he'll never stay healthy to the playoffs if they keep smashing into him on every single pass play.

Some of that might be that Brock holding the ball too long, but most of it is just really bad OL pass protection.

There's just no point putting Manning back in there and expecting this OL to be able to protect him. He'll just get hurt again.

Timmy!

11-30-2015, 03:26 PM

This board is going to lose it's collective shit in a month.....

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 03:35 PM

This board is going to lose it's collective shit in a month.....

And it will be 100% justified if it's because Manning resumes his role as the starter. Like WTF is this narrative that once Peyton heals up he will be good to go? He was playing like just as much dogshit early in the season when he was healthy. Not to mention the fact that it will now be cold/bad weather every week, conditions that even Manning in his absolute prime struggled in.

I've yet to hear one good reason to even entertain the notion of bringing Manning back in other than that his name is Peyton Manning and he used to be good. Brock has been making throws the last two weeks that I haven't seen Manning make in over a year. Not to mention how much better our run game operates with Kubiak being able to actually run his system.

I'm getting angry just imagining the scenario in which Manning becomes the starter again.

Nomad

11-30-2015, 03:39 PM

This board is going to lose it's collective shit in a month.....

It is what it is, Timmy. Until Manning is officially pulled from the starting job, he is still the #1. It's a 'live by Manning, die by Manning'.

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 03:50 PM

It's a 'live by Manning, die by Manning'.

It doesn't have to be though. The coaches can decide they would rather play the guy who gives them the best chance to win instead of choosing to live or die by the washed up legend. People say "you can't lose your job to injury" but tell that to Tom Brady. I bet the Pats are glad they didn't bring back Bledsoe just because "you can't lose your job due to injury". Now I'm not saying Brock is Tom Brady or anything, but if the guy who comes in outplays the healthy version of the guy he replaced due to injury, then there is no reason the job shouldn't go to the new guy.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 03:56 PM

Manning played in the shot-gun the whole season, and he gets rid of the ball quicker than any QB in the NFL.

More to the point is how often Brock Osweiler gets sacked. He's a LOT more mobile and athletic than Peyton, yet he has been sacked 11 times in 2 and 1/3 games. Extend that over a 16 game season and he'd be sacked 75.5 times in a single season! That would lead the league by a huge margin. In fact, he'll never stay healthy to the playoffs if they keep smashing into him on every single pass play.

Some of that might be that Brock holding the ball too long, but most of it is just really bad OL pass protection.

There's just no point putting Manning back in there and expecting this OL to be able to protect him. He'll just get hurt again.

He's a Slow Giant. That's why he's always getting sacked. Of course Peyton can't even move so anybody would seem more mobile than Peyton.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 03:57 PM

Like it or not they will bring Manning back as starter for one last super bowl run this year.

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 03:58 PM

He's a Slow Giant. That's why he's always getting sacked. Of course Peyton can't even move so anybody would seem more mobile than Peyton.

LOL dude STHU up with this. He's not getting sacked because he's "slow". He's getting sacked because he's holding onto the ball too long instead of trying to force throws that aren't there. Once he learns to start throwing the ball away, which seems like an easy fix, you won't see nearly the sack numbers. It also doesn't help when they pancake our interior o-linemen and have a guy right in Brock's grill before he even has a chance to look at his first read. This "Brock is slow" nonsense is one of the dumbest narratives I have ever seen on this board.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 04:03 PM

LOL dude STHU up with this. He's not getting sacked because he's "slow". He's getting sacked because he's holding onto the ball too long instead of trying to force throws that aren't there. Once he learns to start throwing the ball away, which seems like an easy fix, you won't see nearly the sack numbers. It also doesn't help when they pancake our interior o-linemen and have a guy right in Brock's grill before he even has a chance to look at his first read. This "Brock is slow" nonsense is one of the dumbest narratives I have ever seen on this board.

More excuses. Blame Manning, blame the O'line.

Just admit he's not fast. He has a cannon of an arm and can see the entire field with his size but this mythical elite level basketball athleticism I have yet to see.

Nomad

11-30-2015, 04:09 PM

It doesn't have to be though. The coaches can decide they would rather play the guy who gives them the best chance to win instead of choosing to live or die by the washed up legend. People say "you can't lose your job to injury" but tell that to Tom Brady. I bet the Pats are glad they didn't bring back Bledsoe just because "you can't lose your job due to injury". Now I'm not saying Brock is Tom Brady or anything, but if the guy who comes in outplays the healthy version of the guy he replaced due to injury, then there is no reason the job shouldn't go to the new guy.

I'm enjoying watching Osweiler, because we all wondered his ability and potential. I can't dwell on the negatives and the fact that there is a good chance Manning returns, perhaps the healing process rejuvenates Manning to a better QB. It's not wishful thinking, but hoping this is what comes to light knowing if Manning is healed enough, eventually he'll will return.

I'm going to sit back and see if Osweiler can make Rivers whine and throw tantrums.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

11-30-2015, 04:15 PM

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 04:17 PM

If we could get Gronk to play qb for us we'd be set.

That guy has no brain. Kind of essential for a QB.

Broncoknight30

11-30-2015, 04:18 PM

He's a Slow Giant. That's why he's always getting sacked. Of course Peyton can't even move so anybody would seem more mobile than Peyton.

Russell Wilson has as many pass attempts as Manning pretty much. He has been sacked 37 times and Manning has been sacked 15 times. What, is Manning more elusive than Wilson? Wilson is not a giant. The Seahawks do run a version of the stretch run btw.

Russell Wilson is the 4th rated passer in the NFL.

The simple fact is the running game works far more efficiently with QBS that have the skill set to run bootlegs or keepers. The offense that Manning ran well took advantage of the things he did well. It is that simple.

The offense that Kubiak runs that still works in the NFL is not about heavy rushing. It is about balance. There is a difference and that is what the west coast system and all variations of the west coast system is always about balance.

This is the issue right now. People are on here scratching their heads about the running game working so much more efficiently? Is it really a mystery? They have averaged 175 yards rushing over the last two games.

The fact that he is sacked at a higher rate is not an issue. He needs to know how to read blitzes. He needs to be better at picking up his 2nd and 3rd receivers. That is not easy. He may very well struggle with that. Most QBS do.

NightTrainLayne

11-30-2015, 04:31 PM

Get ready, because IF and I mean IF Manning ever gets to 100% they will put him out there. Its going to happen, and I'm happy I'm not the one who has to make that call. I ride either way. Nostratimmy has spoken.

Timmy beat me to the punch here.

Manning will start for us again. This is going to happen. When he is healthy, he will start. Be ready for it.

The question is, how short is his leash, and how long will he be allowed to play poorly?

The leash will be relatively short. He will likely get at least one full game, but if it's going south, they will pull the plug and go back to Oz. But Manning will get his chance. I imagine that he will start one game, and we'll be back to Oz. If he plays well, the maybe 2-3 games. Of course, if he plays well what can you do. But I can see him starting, and havinng a terrible first half and have Kubiak tell him that Brock's going to take over in the 2nd half.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 04:37 PM

Russell Wilson has as many pass attempts as Manning pretty much. He has been sacked 37 times and Manning has been sacked 15 times. What, is Manning more elusive than Wilson? Wilson is not a giant. The Seahawks do run a version of the stretch run btw.

Russell Wilson is the 4th rated passer in the NFL.

The simple fact is the running game works far more efficiently with QBS that have the skill set to run bootlegs or keepers. The offense that Manning ran well took advantage of the things he did well. It is that simple.

The offense that Kubiak runs that still works in the NFL is not about heavy rushing. It is about balance. There is a difference and that is what the west coast system and all variations of the west coast system is always about balance.

This is the issue right now. People are on here scratching their heads about the running game working so much more efficiently? Is it really a mystery? They have averaged 175 yards rushing over the last two games.

The fact that he is sacked at a higher rate is not an issue. He needs to know how to read blitzes. He needs to be better at picking up his 2nd and 3rd receivers. That is not easy. He may very well struggle with that. Most QBS do.

The difference is Russell Wilson has 400 yards rushing which indicates his mobility. Osweiler has 26 yards in 3 games. When you combine that with the sacks it's quite easy to see that Osweiler does not have this mythical elite level basketball athleticism.

Broncoknight30

11-30-2015, 04:41 PM

The difference is Russell Wilson has 400 yards rushing which indicates his mobility. Osweiler has 26 yards in 3 games. When you combine that with the sacks it's quite easy to see that Osweiler does not have this mythical elite level basketball athleticism.

Holy shit.

gregbroncs

11-30-2015, 04:41 PM

More excuses. Blame Manning, blame the O'line.

Just admit he's not fast. He has a cannon of an arm and can see the entire field with his size but this mythical elite level basketball athleticism I have yet to see.
There were no excuses in there. He's young and holds onto the ball. The O-line is below average so they screw up more than average. Those traits together lead to sacks.

I won't pretend to understand your obsession with his athleticism and speed. He's not as slow as Manning, He's not as fast as Wilson. Who cares about either of those things? It really seems to be you alone that does. Put it this way, he's fast enough and as fast as about half the QB's starting in the league. Including some of the all time greats in Brady, Brees and Peyton.

gregbroncs

11-30-2015, 04:46 PM

Timmy beat me to the punch here.

Manning will start for us again. This is going to happen. When he is healthy, he will start. Be ready for it.

The question is, how short is his leash, and how long will he be allowed to play poorly?

The leash will be relatively short. He will likely get at least one full game, but if it's going south, they will pull the plug and go back to Oz. But Manning will get his chance. I imagine that he will start one game, and we'll be back to Oz. If he plays well, the maybe 2-3 games. Of course, if he plays well what can you do. But I can see him starting, and havinng a terrible first half and have Kubiak tell him that Brock's going to take over in the 2nd half.
If Manning starts another game this season without an injury to Brock or Brock failing fairly significantly in multiple games I know I won't be the only one pissed off. Right now I have 0 interest in ever seeing Manning as the starting QB for the Broncos. Been there done that and this convenient injury excuse doesn't hold water for the duration of his decline. He didn't lose his job to injury IMO, he would have lost his job to ineffectiveness and inability to run the offense that works.

Timmy!

11-30-2015, 04:57 PM

Giraffes aren't slow, just gangly. Duh.

NightTerror218

11-30-2015, 05:01 PM

He's a Slow Giant. That's why he's always getting sacked. Of course Peyton can't even move so anybody would seem more mobile than Peyton.

They showed a thing during the game at how quick Oz could get the ball out, very quick under .4 Seconds......and still got creamed by mayo on a blitz unblocked.

NightTerror218

11-30-2015, 05:03 PM

One thing I noticed with Oz and not with Manning is how open the middle of the field is. I think this has to do with how teams play against Manning. Crowd the middle and force passes to the outside.

NightTrainLayne

11-30-2015, 05:13 PM

If Manning starts another game this season without an injury to Brock or Brock failing fairly significantly in multiple games I know I won't be the only one pissed off. Right now I have 0 interest in ever seeing Manning as the starting QB for the Broncos. Been there done that and this convenient injury excuse doesn't hold water for the duration of his decline. He didn't lose his job to injury IMO, he would have lost his job to ineffectiveness and inability to run the offense that works.

Be prepared to be pissed off, Manning will start again. If he's earned anything in the NFL with all of his records, it's the right for one last chance. At least that's the way the Broncos organization will see it.

I'm just the messenger here. I was advocating trying out Osweiler so that we could see what he have before the bye.

BroncoJoe

11-30-2015, 05:20 PM

Man, there are a lot of idiots posting in this thread.

Wow.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

11-30-2015, 05:30 PM

BroncoJoe

11-30-2015, 05:36 PM

:laugh:

Are there two more "interesting" posters on the forum right now?

Wow.

NightTerror218

11-30-2015, 05:48 PM

This is why he may end up on IR. End the debate

MOtorboat

11-30-2015, 06:14 PM

Man, there are a lot of idiots posting in this thread.

Wow.

I don't really like you talking about Timmy! like that.

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 06:19 PM

Be prepared to be pissed off, Manning will start again. If he's earned anything in the NFL with all of his records, it's the right for one last chance. At least that's the way the Broncos organization will see it.

I'm just the messenger here. I was advocating trying out Osweiler so that we could see what he have before the bye.

I just hate looking at a guy's history and past accomplishments when deciding what is best for the team now. I think it is a giant disservice to the Broncos if they are only going to start Manning because "he's earned it due to his past accomplishments". You have to do what gives your team the best chance to win, and I just don't see how anyone with half a brain could think that's Manning at this point.

That's probably cold-hearted and unappreciative of Manning of me, but the NFL is a what have you done for me lately business. I don't think Denver owes Manning anything. They owe it to themselves and the fans to try to put the best possible product on the field to put the team in the best position to win. They aren't doing that if they put Manning back in.

I mean shit, just sit back and think for a minute about what Brock did last night. If you are being honest with yourself, do you think Manning in a million years brings us back from that far down against the Pats in that kind of weather, especially at his age? I just don't think it would have happened in a million years.

I am incredibly appreciative of what Manning has done for the Broncos, but I don't think he deserves another shot to start because of it.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 06:20 PM

Man, there are a lot of idiots posting in this thread.

Wow.

Thanks for making it one more. :D

BroncoWave

11-30-2015, 06:24 PM

Thanks for making it one more. :D

https://i.imgur.com/7lZwLKc.jpg

Timmy!

11-30-2015, 06:30 PM

I don't really like you talking about Timmy! like that.

I feel bullied Mo.

MOtorboat

11-30-2015, 06:34 PM

I feel bullied Mo.

Start a thread.

Timmy!

11-30-2015, 06:38 PM

Start a thread.

I'm joining a militia instead.

BroncoJoe

11-30-2015, 06:41 PM

I don't really like you talking about Timmy! like that.

Your insinuation that I was insinuating Timmy! as one of them is offensive.

#nostratimmy

MOtorboat

11-30-2015, 06:43 PM

Your insinuation that I was insinuating Timmy! as one of them is offensive.

#nastratimmy

#nostratimmy

:tsk:

BroncoJoe

11-30-2015, 06:49 PM

#nostratimmy

:tsk:

Damn you MO.

Slick

11-30-2015, 07:13 PM

Timmy beat me to the punch here.

Manning will start for us again. This is going to happen. When he is healthy, he will start. Be ready for it.

The question is, how short is his leash, and how long will he be allowed to play poorly?

The leash will be relatively short. He will likely get at least one full game, but if it's going south, they will pull the plug and go back to Oz. But Manning will get his chance. I imagine that he will start one game, and we'll be back to Oz. If he plays well, the maybe 2-3 games. Of course, if he plays well what can you do. But I can see him starting, and havinng a terrible first half and have Kubiak tell him that Brock's going to take over in the 2nd half.

Going back to Manning would be a colossal mistake. Brock is the better fit for a Kubiak offense. I'm not even going to worry about it because I don't think Manning's foot will be healthy enough at any time this season.

NightTerror218

11-30-2015, 07:26 PM

I like my chances with Brock if he plays like this....mistake free.

One reason is because no team has tape on him yet. This could help down the road. He will develop and change as he gets more snaps and starts.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 07:36 PM

I think Brock prefers cold weather. That's why he didn't do so well at ASU.

broncobryce

11-30-2015, 08:04 PM

I don't think Elway is that stupid, he knows how a locker room works.

I Eat Staples

11-30-2015, 08:12 PM

I don't think Elway is that stupid, he knows how a locker room works.

But that's the problem: the players might still see Peyton as a leader, and want him back when healthy. CJ Anderson implied that post-game.

The locker room dynamic is nothing but a hindrance, but unfortunately it's unavoidable. Hopefully our coaches know how to handle it.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 10:00 PM

I don't think Elway is that stupid, he knows how a locker room works.

Elway basically is forced to start healthy Manning. He wooed Peyton by promising another super bowl opportunity. If you aren't going to start Manning you might as well cut him because Peyton is not going to get benched without a fight. It will get really really ugly if you bench Peyton this year with a super bowl within reach. There's no way around it an angry Peyton Manning will make Elway and the Broncos look like the bad guy. I just don't see a benching happening because it will be too big a disruption to the team.

tomjonesrocks

11-30-2015, 10:32 PM

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 10:37 PM

Even if Manning gets healthy it's just really hard to visualize him being successful in all these cold weather games coming up.

A healthy Manning, warm weather in the playoffs could make sense - though as always everything will go through Foxboro and that kills that.
Elway and company knew the deal with Manning and cold weather when they wooed him in free agency. They already knew about the neck as well.

Manning still came despite more favorable weather condition in Nashville and San Francisco. So he sacrificed a lot but felt the opportunity to win a super bowl and have a qb gm like Elway who understands him made Denver the best decision for him.

tomjonesrocks

11-30-2015, 10:48 PM

Elway and company knew the deal with Manning and cold weather when they wooed him in free agency. They already knew about the neck as well. Manning still came despite more favorable weather condition in Nashville and San Francisco. So he sacrificed a lot but felt the opportunity to win a super bowl and have a qb gm like Elway who understands him made Denver the best decision for him.

I think you decided to provide answers to a bunch of questions I didn't ask. Really not sure how any of that reply is even remotely relevant to anything I wrote.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 10:57 PM

I think you decided to provide answers to a bunch of questions I didn't ask. Really not sure how any of that reply is even remotely relevant to anything I wrote.

Well you are implying that Manning won't start or that you wish he wouldn't start. Is that not correct?

Well get used to it. Manning will start when he comes back from his injury this season.

Simple Jaded

11-30-2015, 11:14 PM

Like it or not they will bring Manning back as starter for one last super bowl run this year.

Osweiler has taken 2 sacks that could be legitimately blamed on him, as far as I can remember, the rest were on the OL.

Osweiler escapes and eludes better than any QB Denver's had since Cutler, true story, and he's done a good job of throwing it away too. You may wanna try to get over it cuz it's looking more and more likely that you're gonna be stuck with a QB you clearly can't stand.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 11:21 PM

Osweiler has taken 2 sacks that could be legitimately blamed on him, as far as I can remember, the rest were on the OL.

Osweiler escapes and eludes better than any QB Denver's had since Cutler, true story, and he's done a good job of throwing it away too. You may wanna try to get over it cuz it's looking more and more likely that you're gonna be stuck with a QB you clearly can't stand.

I like the Slow Giant. Cannon Arm. Can see the whole field with his towering size.

Still think they may go after Brees or Matt Stafford next year but I have no problem with him starting next year. Just won't happen this year with a healthy Manning.

Simple Jaded

11-30-2015, 11:24 PM

Stafford isn't going anywhere, I wish though.

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 11:27 PM

Jim Bob Cooter and Matt Stafford come to Denver in a package deal. Stafford doesn't want to be like Barry Sanders.

NightTerror218

11-30-2015, 11:32 PM

But that's the problem: the players might still see Peyton as a leader, and want him back when healthy. CJ Anderson implied that post-game.

The locker room dynamic is nothing but a hindrance, but unfortunately it's unavoidable. Hopefully our coaches know how to handle it.

CJ also posted on Twitter about how much he loves Brock as his QB.

NightTerror218

11-30-2015, 11:33 PM

Random article about how Manning may be out for another month.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Broncos-QB-Peyton-Manning-not-even-close-to-healthy-41565314

tomjonesrocks

11-30-2015, 11:37 PM

Well you are implying that Manning won't start or that you wish he wouldn't start. Is that not correct? Well get used to it. Manning will start when he comes back from his injury this season.

I haven't rallied to any particular side on this situation so save the "get used to it BS" for someone actually up in arms at the prospect of Manning returning at some point.

I said it's hard to visualize him doing well in all the cold weather games coming up. That's it.

TimHippo

11-30-2015, 11:49 PM

I haven't rallied to any particular side on this situation so save the "get used to it BS" for someone actually up in arms at the prospect of Manning returning at some point.

I said it's hard to visualize him doing well in all the cold weather games coming up. That's it.
Even that is pretty inconclusive:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/11/14/5102238/peyton-manning-plays-lousy-in-cold-weather-myth-or-fact

Dapper Dan

11-30-2015, 11:53 PM

Random article about how Manning may be out for another month.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Broncos-QB-Peyton-Manning-not-even-close-to-healthy-41565314

In before someone says "What a coincidence that a report comes out that Manning may miss another month after Brock just won 2 games."

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 12:12 AM

In before someone says "What a coincidence that a report comes out that Manning may miss another month after Brock just won 2 games."

You are the unhappiest Bronco fan right now. Cheer up dude.

Dapper Dan

12-01-2015, 12:16 AM

You are the unhappiest Bronco fan right now. Cheer up dude.

I'm actually pretty happy right now. I just now found out that Lucero came out with a new CD back in September, so I started listening to it. I got to spend most of the day with my little girls. My Broncos are one of the best teams in the NFL, with either quarterback. My Vols are going to a decent bowl, hopefully the Music City Bowl so I can go watch. My foot finally healed up. It's been hurting for several days. I'm off work tonight. I am slightly hungry though. I may get up and grab a snack.

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 12:22 AM

I'm actually pretty happy right now. I just now found out that Lucero came out with a new CD back in September, so I started listening to it. I got to spend most of the day with my little girls. My Broncos are one of the best teams in the NFL, with either quarterback. My Vols are going to a decent bowl, hopefully the Music City Bowl so I can go watch. My foot finally healed up. It's been hurting for several days. I'm off work tonight. I am slightly hungry though. I may get up and grab a snack.

Don't know who lucero is. Grab a snickers bar.

Dapper Dan

12-01-2015, 12:33 AM

Don't know who lucero is. Grab a snickers bar.

Shoot. These chumps ate all of the candy bars. Chips and salsa time.

Cugel

12-01-2015, 12:45 AM

There will be immense pressure on the Broncos to bring Manning back into the starting line up. If the Broncos continue to run the ball like this and the offense continues to operate this efficient under Oz, then I am sorry. They will need to cut Manning loose. Him being there causes all sorts of problems.

This is just beyond absurd. Cut Manning when they're paying him $15 million for the season? For one thing that would be throwing away over $5 million.

For another, they might very well need Manning. What happens if Osweiler gets injured or just struggles in future games? Should they then enter the playoffs with the amazing Trevor Symian? No.

I'm not going to continue with pointing out the absurdity of this. It's obviously not going to happen and it's really an idiotic suggestion. If Manning heals enough so that he's completely healthy, he might start or he might not. If not then he'll sit on the bench.

He might not like that but he's under contract and players don't make the rules in the NFL. If Kubiak says "I'm starting Osweiler" then Manning will like it or lump it.

ShaneFalco

12-01-2015, 01:10 AM

part of me wants peyton to still start. I dont know.....

He is just a legend to the game. Ive seen what happens to teams who cut down their general.

They end up being cursed. The Warner curse still exists today.

TimHippo

12-01-2015, 01:17 AM

Dapper Dan

12-01-2015, 01:30 AM

Plantar Fascitis? Are you Peyton Manning?

When my foot starting hurting, it crossed my mind that it might be the same thing. Lol. But I think it's more in the area of the lateral band of the plantar aponeurosis instead of the central band. I think I just ran too much too soon. I never do a good job of pacing myself when I start something.

Joel

12-01-2015, 06:52 AM

Random article about how Manning may be out for another month.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Broncos-QB-Peyton-Manning-not-even-close-to-healthy-41565314
Can't speak for others, but this hardly surprises me; it's always struck me as the sole realistic time table for Mannings return, because the KC game reminded us how costly it can be to rush him back before he's healthy (or at least healthy enough.) I wish Kubes had just sat him down after the Colts game, before playing 3 quarters vs. KC almost certainly made the injury worse, and when he would've had that whole week to heal rather than practice and play on a torn ligament. Then he'd probably be back sooner.

We can't live in Should Land though, and I think he and we need at least one tuneup game to make sure everyone's on the same page before it's win-or-go-home time. At home vs. SD is a good choice for that (though Rivers has cause to like Mile High more than any stadium but his own) but Cincy is NOT. Conversely, if we go 6-0 or 5-1 down the stretch with Oz, it'll be almost impossible to switch back when we've already beaten the toughest AFC playoff teams.

One of ESPNs article on the injury quoted Eli (who had the same thing a few years ago) saying it was 3-4 weeks before the pain disappeared and he could do all the things he normally did AS he normally did them. Four weeks would make the Bengals game Mannings earliest return, and Eli's younger now and was even younger then than Peyton is now. The questions in my mind are whether Manning can play EVEN then, and how Oz plays in the interim once teams have tape of him.

Northman

12-01-2015, 07:27 AM

What a coincidence that a report comes out that Manning may miss another month after Brock just won 2 games.

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 07:58 AM

When my foot starting hurting, it crossed my mind that it might be the same thing. Lol. But I think it's more in the area of the lateral band of the plantar aponeurosis instead of the central band. I think I just ran too much too soon. I never do a good job of pacing myself when I start something.

Did you get fitted for proper running shoes? I stared running over the summer but my feet/legs started killing me so I had to stop. Went to a running store, got fitted for the proper shoes, and have had no problems since. It was 100% worth the money.

Dapper Dan

12-01-2015, 08:36 AM

Did you get fitted for proper running shoes? I stared running over the summer but my feet/legs started killing me so I had to stop. Went to a running store, got fitted for the proper shoes, and have had no problems since. It was 100% worth the money.

I may have to try that. I gave up on my Adidas shoes because they hurt my feet and now my Reeboks make my foot hurt in a different area.

Mike

12-01-2015, 10:15 AM

You don't cut him, you don't IR him. He does have some value and you just don't treat players like that. It sends a bad message to other players. I think Kubiak and Elway are playing it as well as can be played. Brock is playing well enough that there is no pressure. Let Manning get completely healthy, say the right things, let Manning know that it is still his position. You never know what will happen tomorrow. Brock may hit a wall when teams have enough material on him to review, he may get hurt....

Play it conservative until you feel Manning is at 100%, not what Manning feels, but what you feel observing him. And when that happens, worry about making a decision.

I still can't quite believe there are people that think Manning is the better QB though. Going back in to last year and half of this year it is clear that he is not the legend he once was. He isn't even average. He could probably be average if he recognized he can't make all the throws anymore and adapts his playstyle. Even at the top of his game though, his history in the playoffs and cold weather can't be denied. I want him to be as great as he once was, I want him to stay healthy, to play better in the cold and in the playoffs....but my eyes tell me something different.

gregbroncs

12-01-2015, 12:24 PM

One thing I noticed with Oz and not with Manning is how open the middle of the field is. I think this has to do with how teams play against Manning. Crowd the middle and force passes to the outside.Which also makes running the ball far more difficult. Manning can't get the ball to the perimeter fast enough to scare defenses anymore. That is why he has struggled, he has diminished and teams are exploiting it.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 12:34 PM

Joel

12-01-2015, 12:46 PM

I doubt Elway brought back Kubes, Wade and Dennison just to fire them after a single season over the first major goof; McDumbass got more slack than that, despite earning less.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 12:59 PM

I doubt Elway brought back Kubes, Wade and Dennison just to fire them after a single season over the first major goof; McDumbass got more slack than that, despite earning less.

I'm not sure McDumbass did get more slack than that. And Elway might be the one on the block.

I know it's basically sacrilege to say, and I'm honestly not sure there's much controlling the team above Elway. But like I said, putting in a "healthy" Manning when your young QB is playing pretty damn well and winning big games is a huge risk. If it hindenburgs, well... someone's gotta stop designing airships.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

12-01-2015, 02:04 PM

Elway might be on the block? That's crazy talk man, not because he's Elway, but because we've been perennial contenders since he took over.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 02:07 PM

Elway might be on the block? That's crazy talk man, not because he's Elway, but because we've been perennial contenders since he took over.

I know it's crazy. But so (IMO) would putting in Manning if Brock continues to have success.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

12-01-2015, 02:10 PM

I know it's crazy. But so (IMO) would putting in Manning if Brock continues to have success.

I agree, to a lesser extent.

Joel

12-01-2015, 02:11 PM

I'm not sure McDumbass did get more slack than that. And Elway might be the one on the block.
He ran off a young, Pro Bowl franchise QB before even unpacking his office, then labeled a young Pro Bowl WR a headcase just as an excuse to ship him out as well, yet still lasted 1½ years until the revelation he'd unpacked Spygate along with the rest of his office finally cost a guy younger than me the first head coaching job he'd ever had. So firing Kubiak and/or Dennison after just ONE season would be less slack, yes, and they've EARNED far more with the NFL generally and the Broncos specifically.

I know it's basically sacrilege to say, and I'm honestly not sure there's much controlling the team above Elway. But like I said, putting in a "healthy" Manning when your young QB is playing pretty damn well and winning big games is a huge risk. If it hindenburgs, well... someone's gotta stop designing airships.
So from 4½ years of "our only SB-winning QB has made our laughing stock respectable again" to "Elway has doomed us all!" just because he dared put a healthy first ballot HoFer back under center rather than try riding a kid with less than half a dozen starts to the SB. Mr. Bowlen once offered to sell Elway 20% of the TEAM; he's DEFINITELY earned enough capital to cover one mistake MOST GMs would make. Oz has won TWO GAMES, and one was a huge one, but let's not put cast his Canton bust just yet.

Certainly not because some fans have decided Manning's washed up, or a selfish bad teammate more concerned with getting healthy so he can help the team win a SB than giving impotent moral support from the sideline at the expense of delaying recovery of his ability to contribute something USEFUL to the team.

I Eat Staples

12-01-2015, 02:15 PM

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 02:16 PM

I may have to try that. I gave up on my Adidas shoes because they hurt my feet and now my Reeboks make my foot hurt in a different area.

Yeah I would absolutely recommend it if you have a running store close to where you live. A good fitted pair will probably run you a bit over 100 bucks but it's well worth it if you plan to run regularly.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 02:30 PM

He ran off a young, Pro Bowl franchise QB before even unpacking his office, then labeled a young Pro Bowl WR a headcase just as an excuse to ship him out as well, yet still lasted 1½ years until the revelation he'd unpacked Spygate along with the rest of his office finally cost a guy younger than me the first head coaching job he'd ever had. So firing Kubiak and/or Dennison after just ONE season would be less slack, yes, and they've EARNED far more with the NFL generally and the Broncos specifically.

As much as I hate him, hindsight has shown that running our "franchise" QB out was probably the best thing for us, so I'm not sure I hit him too hard for that. While the Kyle Orton years were not my Favorite, the bears have shown an equal mediocrity at the position. Brandon Marshall IS a headcase, so calling that spade a spade, while troubling at the time, has actually proven fairly accurate. I don't like the idea of running talent out of the building, but there were personality issues there that made the relationship doomed from the start.

If Kubiak gets this far/does this well, only to throw the whole thing away by taking a crazy gamble in taking out a hot QB for a cold one. Well. I don't know what to say. I'm not saying he should be fired, but it would be a huge hit on him.

So from 4½ years of "our only SB-winning QB has made our laughing stock respectable again" to "Elway has doomed us all!" just because he dared put a healthy first ballot HoFer back under center rather than try riding a kid with less than half a dozen starts to the SB. Mr. Bowlen once offered to sell Elway 20% of the TEAM; he's DEFINITELY earned enough capital to cover one mistake MOST GMs would make. Oz has won TWO GAMES, and one was a huge one, but let's not put cast his Canton bust just yet.

Jesus Christ, are you capable of responding to what someone says rather than what you think you hear? Who said Elway has doomed us all? I said that sanctioning putting Manning back in is a huge risk and has huge consequences if it blows up. I even said that I'd trust Elway and CO to make the call, as long as they own those consequences. That's a far cry from "Elway has doomed us all!". WTF Joel?

Certainly not because some fans have decided Manning's washed up, or a selfish bad teammate more concerned with getting healthy so he can help the team win a SB than giving impotent moral support from the sideline at the expense of delaying recovery of his ability to contribute something USEFUL to the team.

Manning has played like shit the entire year. That's just a fact. Putting him back in only to have him play like shit would make the entire organization look like shit. Why is that so hard to recognize?

If they think he's healthy and they put him in and he plays well, that's great. I'm just going to assume that if they DO put him back in, it's because Manning has shown them something (other than the name on his jersey and the 1-win-away-from-the-record stat) to justify that move. If they make the move and it blows up, they shouldn't be immune from the fallout.

TimHippo

12-01-2015, 02:47 PM

I Eat Staples

12-01-2015, 02:51 PM

Healthy Manning is starting this season. Get used to it.

That doesn't mean I have to like it. That doesn't mean it's not a disaster and a complete tanking of our season.

Joel

12-01-2015, 03:14 PM

Bringing back Manning over Brock would be worse than anything McDaniels did, because of what the reasons behind it would be. McDaniels was an idiot, and he thought he was building a winner by making his idiotic decisions. He was as wrong as could be, and got fired for it.

If Manning starts for us again this season, it won't be because Elway/Kubiak thinks he gives the team the best chance to win. They aren't stupid. If he starts again, it'll be because his name is Peyton Manning. And that is simply not an acceptable way to run a football team.
Lemme see if I understand: People SINCERELY think Elway would screw off a shot at our first championship since his retirement just to soothe the overinflated ego of a guy who's probably gone next year ANYWAY? For the love of all that's holy, WHY?!

As much as I hate him, hindsight has shown that running our "franchise" QB out was probably the best thing for us, so I'm not sure I hit him too hard for that. While the Kyle Orton years were not my Favorite, the bears have shown an equal mediocrity at the position.
The Bears have shown they have NO QB coach and a line that almost makes our look good, but they showed that with Grossman and Orton before Cutler ever got there. When I heard about that trade (after I stopped cussing McDumbass) my first thought was "OMG, has Cutler seen their sack totals?!" Who knows WHAT he'd have been if Lovie Smith hadn't given him the David Carr treatment; he was certainly and steadily headed in the right direction UNTIL he left Denver.

Brandon Marshall IS a headcase, so calling that spade a spade, while troubling at the time, has actually proven fairly accurate. I don't like the idea of running talent out of the building, but there were personality issues there that made the relationship doomed from the start.
Yeah, there were personality issues that doomed MOST of McDumbass' professional relationships from the start; what's the common theme? Marshall's had offfield issues, but far less since getting counseling (and oh, yeah, getting the Hell away from McDumbass.) He's not exactly been Aaron Hernandez since leaving Denver: Just an exceptionally good WR McDumbass alienated and ran out of town simply for not being one of HIS hand-picked stars.

If Kubiak gets this far/does this well, only to throw the whole thing away by taking a crazy gamble in taking out a hot QB for a cold one. Well. I don't know what to say. I'm not saying he should be fired, but it would be a huge hit on him.
So Elways job's safe after all, but Kubiak should be fired faster than McDumbass, for a far lesser crime and despite having earned far more credit? Think Kubiak puts Manning back out there without talking to Elway first, or over Elways objection? If Kubiak wants to keep Oz and Elway wants Manning, who do you think wins that debate? We're not firing a coach we JUST hired, and the rookie roommate he coached to his only championships in 5 tries certainly won't.

Jesus Christ, are you capable of responding to what someone says rather than what you think you hear? Who said Elway has doomed us all? I said that sanctioning putting Manning back in is a huge risk and has huge consequences if it blows up. I even said that I'd trust Elway and CO to make the call, as long as they own those consequences. That's a far cry from "Elway has doomed us all!". WTF Joel?
Right: The Bowlens should fire Elway if we put Manning back in and he crashes in the playoffs when we're SB bound, because it's so indisputably undeniably clear Manning's irretrievably lost it, but that's TOTALLY different than saying Elway has doomed us all. If/when Manning's healthy and we stick him back out there only to bomb out of the playoffs, the "consequences" will be that Oz didn't win a SB when he had less starts than Tebow, but that was probably always going to be the case: We'll survive—WITH Elway and Kubes.

Manning has played like shit the entire year. That's just a fact. Putting him back in only to have him play like shit would make the entire organization look like shit. Why is that so hard to recognize?
Manning's had crap protection all year and consequently been hurt most of it, just as last year and the year before, and THAT'S a fact.

If they think he's healthy and they put him in and he plays well, that's great. I'm just going to assume that if they DO put him back in, it's because Manning has shown them something (other than the name on his jersey and the 1-win-away-from-the-record stat) to justify that move. If they make the move and it blows up, they shouldn't be immune from the fallout.
No, but it ain't gonna cost anyone their JOB, and that was a hyperbolic presumption.

I Eat Staples

12-01-2015, 03:31 PM

Lemme see if I understand: People SINCERELY think Elway would screw off a shot at our first championship since his retirement just to soothe the overinflated ego of a guy who's probably gone next year ANYWAY? For the love of all that's holy, WHY?!

Ask the people who think Manning will start again. I'm optimistic he won't.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 03:34 PM

The Bears have shown they have NO QB coach and a line that almost makes our look good, but they showed that with Grossman and Orton before Cutler ever got there. When I heard about that trade (after I stopped cussing McDumbass) my first thought was "OMG, has Cutler seen their sack totals?!" Who knows WHAT he'd have been if Lovie Smith hadn't given him the David Carr treatment; he was certainly and steadily headed in the right direction UNTIL he left Denver.

Blah blah blah, if only this, it's because of that. Jay Cutler is mediocre. Helluva an arm, questionable decision maker and team leader.

Yeah, there were personality issues that doomed MOST of McDumbass' professional relationships from the start; what's the common theme? Marshall's had offfield issues, but far less since getting counseling (and oh, yeah, getting the Hell away from McDumbass.) He's not exactly been Aaron Hernandez since leaving Denver: Just an exceptionally good WR McDumbass alienated and ran out of town simply for not being one of HIS hand-picked stars.

It's taken Marshall years to "calm down" to the level of basket case. Years. So yeah, McDouche is a douche. Marshall is a crack pot. I'm not sure what we are arguing other than these two guys have big time personality flaws.

So Elways job's safe after all, but Kubiak should be fired faster than McDumbass, for a far lesser crime and despite having earned far more credit? Think Kubiak puts Manning back out there without talking to Elway first, or over Elways objection? If Kubiak wants to keep Oz and Elway wants Manning, who do you think wins that debate? We're not firing a coach we JUST hired, and the rookie roommate he coached to his only championships in 5 tries certainly won't.

I didn't say Elways job is safe. In fact, in principle, I don't think that should really ever be used other than in the past tense for any person in any capacity. If shit happens on your watch, that's your shit. It's not my call if Elway gets fired, and we are certainly no where near that. If it becomes a comedy of errors and this season implodes, I'll say what I think at that time. If the worst comes to fruition, it's certainly not unthinkable IMO. I also specifically said that I wasn't saying either of them should be fired, but you can keep going off half cocked about what I actually said if you want. Your whole argument is predicated on "Well, it's not as bad a ****up as this other guy... so life HAS to be fair!". No it doesn't. McDouche made error after error but never really held the keys to an elite team. Kubiak does. That makes the stakes higher, for better or worse.

Again, I'm not trying to claim anyone is being fired, so quit arguing from that position. If the shit really hits the fan, we'll just have to see who needs a towel, but I don't think anyone is going to be out of shit-path.

Right: The Bowlens should fire Elway if we put Manning back in and he crashes in the playoffs when we're SB bound, because it's so indisputably undeniably clear Manning's irretrievably lost it, but that's TOTALLY different than saying Elway has doomed us
all.

Yes. Those two things are not connected in any way, as one is a forward looking statement and the other is hindsight. So I'm glad you can tell the difference between a prediction and an evaluation.

If/when Manning's healthy and we stick him back out there only to bomb out of the playoffs, the "consequences" will be that Oz didn't win a SB when he had less starts than Tebow, but that was probably always going to be the case: We'll survive—WITH Elway and Kubes.

You do know that if you "bomb out of the playoffs", you don't get another game. Right? What would Oz have to do with it if that scenario occurs?

Manning's had crap protection all year and consequently been hurt most of it, just as last year and the year before, and THAT'S a fact.

Ok, but you are making excuses. His protection isn't likely to get much better. He supposedly started out healthy (unless he didn't) and didn't play well out of the gate. My confidence that can actually get to 100% is low.

No, but it ain't gonna cost anyone their JOB, and that was a hyperbolic presumption.

It's not? Ok then, I guess I stand corrected!

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 03:42 PM

I'm glad we have Tim hippo here to tell us exactly how everything will go. I would like to point out to him though that young Mr Osweiler is starting to gain some serious buzz. Uh oh.

TimHippo

12-01-2015, 03:46 PM

I'm glad we have Tim hippo here to tell us exactly how everything will go. I would like to point out to him though that young Mr Osweiler is starting to gain some serious buzz. Uh oh.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.956069!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/alg-chaz-bono-shirtless-jpg.jpg

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 03:47 PM

Please quit posting selfies

Ravage!!!

12-01-2015, 03:48 PM

No.. Elway should not be "fired" if he decides to put Manning back into the lineup, that's just silly.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 03:49 PM

No.. Elway should not be "fired" if he decides to put Manning back into the lineup, that's just silly.

And if anyone had said that, it would be silly.

Dreadnought

12-01-2015, 03:52 PM

And if anyone had said that, it would be silly.

There are times that this Forum produces straw-man arguments like Henry Ford produced Model T's. Its remarkable how so many people never learned the basics of conducting even a simple debate.

BroncoJoe

12-01-2015, 04:18 PM

In Elway we trust. He and Kubiak will make the best decision for the Broncos - nothing else.

Joel

12-01-2015, 04:25 PM

While I'd disagree with the decision, I'd give the organization the benefit of the doubt on starting Manning again. If he crashes and burns though, so should some coaching (and maybe exec) jobs.

You take that risk and you have to assume the consequences.

I didn't say Elways job is safe. In fact, in principle, I don't think that should really ever be used other than in the past tense for any person in any capacity. If shit happens on your watch, that's your shit. It's not my call if Elway gets fired, and we are certainly no where near that. If it becomes a comedy of errors and this season implodes, I'll say what I think at that time. If the worst comes to fruition, it's certainly not unthinkable IMO. I also specifically said that I wasn't saying either of them should be fired, but you can keep going off half cocked about what I actually said if you want. Your whole argument is predicated on "Well, it's not as bad a ****up as this other guy... so life HAS to be fair!". No it doesn't. McDouche made error after error but never really held the keys to an elite team. Kubiak does. That makes the stakes higher, for better or worse.

I apologize for you not saying what you meant; won't happen again (I hope.)

wayninja

12-01-2015, 04:39 PM

I apologize for you not saying what you meant; won't happen again (I hope.)

Lol... that's all you got? Stringing together two out of context, and out of order quotes?

Alright Joel.

If the absolute disaster scenario occurs (scuttle the season putting in Manning when Brock is playing well), then no one should be immune from the evaluation of that decision. Right now, we aren't anywhere near that.

Clear enough for you Joel?

Joel

12-01-2015, 04:55 PM

Lol... that's all you got? Stringing together two out of context, and out of order quotes?
Out of context? It's pretty much the WHOLE context we're discussing; the rest is just exposition for that, which is why I cut the rest of your second post. But I wouldn't have included a full paragraph from it and ALL of the other post if I wanted to quote them out of context (if you felt that post needed more context, you should've provided it; we can't read minds.) Contrary to increasingly popular belief "out of context" isn't some codeword that lets people take a mulligan for making statements they should but won't retract.

I qouted them in that order because the first quote makes a statement the second proves false, but if you think posting them in chronological order matters, fine, I'll swap the quotes to the order in which you made them. The point still stands: You said SPECIFICALLY what you later claimed you SPECIFICALLY didn't say. Arguing in good faith on the presumption others do the same requires presuming that an error, but it was undeniably that.

Alright Joel.

If the absolute disaster scenario occurs (scuttle the season putting in Manning when Brock is playing well), then no one should be immune from the evaluation of that decision. Right now, we aren't anywhere near that.

Clear enough for you Joel?
Right: Elway and Kubiaks jobs are safe as long—but ONLY as long—as they do as you say; I didn't realize you posted here, Mr. Bowlen. ;)

wayninja

12-01-2015, 05:04 PM

Out of context? It's pretty much the WHOLE context we're discussing; the rest is just exposition for that, which is why I cut the rest of your second post. But I wouldn't have included a full paragraph from it and ALL of the other post if I wanted to quote them out of context (if you felt that post needed more context, you should've provided it; we can't read minds.) Contrary to increasingly popular belief "out of context" isn't some codeword that lets people take a mulligan for making statements they should but won't retract.

Yes, it's out of context. I was responding to your "Elway has doomed us!" nonsense for simply putting Manning back in. I wasn't suggesting he be fired for simply putting manning back in as you asserted. Context is important. You complain that you can't read minds, but also don't want to respond to what is being discussed.

Nonetheless, you were confused, clearly. I clarified. Happy? There's no reason for me to retract anything. I haven't said anything I don't mean. Elway should be on the block if he does stupid shit that blows up. That hasn't happened. You are making this a war of semantics that you are causing by your own twisting of the argument.

I qouted them in that order because the first quote makes a statement the second proves false, but if you think posting them in chronological order matters, fine, I'll swap the quotes to the order in which you made them. The point still stands: You said SPECIFICALLY what you later claimed you SPECIFICALLY didn't say. Arguing in good faith on the presumption others do the same requires presuming that an error, but it was undeniably that.

The order is important. The one you quoted second was my original post. The first was in a counter to your nonsense which alleged I suggested something that I didn't. You are being ridiculous. I would never say that Elway should be fired for simply doing his job. But he should be held accountable for the results. It's a pretty simple position, one that you are going to great lengths to make appear complicated.

Because you said:

So from 4½ years of "our only SB-winning QB has made our laughing stock respectable again" to "Elway has doomed us all!" just because he dared put a healthy first ballot HoFer back under center rather than try riding a kid with less than half a dozen starts to the SB.

So I said, no, I wasn't saying that elway should be fired simply for "daring to put manning back in". That's absurd. Context.

Right: Elway and Kubiaks jobs are safe as long—but ONLY as long—as they do as you say; I didn't realize you posted here, Mr. Bowlen. ;)

Oh, I'm shocked that you once again tried to stuff words in my mouth. Don't be surprised if I'm done arguing with you. You aren't arguing anything of substance other than trying to catch me in a minor contradiction that is (and has been) easily cleared up.

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 05:05 PM

BroncoJoe

12-01-2015, 05:06 PM

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 05:08 PM

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 05:09 PM

I was the first one to point out that Yash is insufferable

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 05:10 PM

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 05:19 PM

I was the first one to point out that Yash is insufferable

Well you're pretty old so you were probably the first one to do a lot of things. ;)

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 05:21 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 05:24 PM

Ok now I kinda hope Manning comes back.

Cugel

12-01-2015, 05:24 PM

I was the first one to state that the offensive line struggling was due to manning, i was the first to say the running game is struggling due to manning, it was inevitable that the unit would struggle when thee entire playbook and schemes they have trained for the entire off season and camp had to ne scrapped. Now that were back to what everyone is familiar with were number one in rushing and have gotten so much better on offense with brock, theres noway manning gets or even deserves his job back.

Yes, you were the first to be totally WRONG. Congrats! :coffee:

The OL is still struggling in pass-protection. Osweiler has been sacked 8 times in the last 2 games, and 11 times overall this season in 2 and 1/3 games. Peyton, despite having perhaps the quickest release in the NFL and playing in the shot-gun virtually the entire time so that he's facing the defense and can see the rush all the way was still sacked 17 times in 9 games.

That ain't good. And no, on most of those plays it's not the fault of Brock Osweiler, he's not holding the ball too long, it's the fault of BAD OL pass-blocking.

They are run-blocking better with Osweiler under center but they are still getting Brock hit on almost every passing play.

Unless they get better I don't know if he can make it to the post-season without getting injured. He's already been pretty beaten up in only two games - which is exactly what Kubiak said in his press conference after the game.

Cugel

12-01-2015, 05:27 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

You are really bad for tempting us like that!

Joel

12-01-2015, 05:28 PM

Yes, it's out of context. I was responding to your "Elway has doomed us!" nonsense for simply putting Manning back in. I wasn't suggesting he be fired for simply putting manning back in as you asserted. Context is important. You complain that you can't read minds, but also don't want to respond to what is being discussed.
Your first post was in RESPONSE to something I said AN HOUR-AND-A-HALF LATER? Guess this really IS a "prognostication" thread. I responded to your over the top comment, not the reverse: THAT order DOES matter, so let's keep it straight.

Nonetheless, you were confused, clearly. I clarified. Happy? There's no reason for me to retract anything. I haven't said anything I don't mean. Elway should be on the block if he does stupid shit that blows up. That hasn't happened. You are making this a war of semantics that you are causing by your own twisting of the argument.

The order is important. The one you quoted second was my original post. The first was in a counter to your nonsense which alleged I suggested something that I didn't. You are being ridiculous. I would never say that Elway should be fired for simply doing his job. But he should be held accountable for the results. It's a pretty simple position, one that you are going to great lengths to make appear complicated.

Because you said:
So from 4½ years of "our only SB-winning QB has made our laughing stock respectable again" to "Elway has doomed us all!" just because he dared put a healthy first ballot HoFer back under center rather than try riding a kid with less than half a dozen starts to the SB.

So I said, no, I wasn't saying that elway should be fired simply for "daring to put manning back in". That's absurd. Context.
The context of that is that you said Kubes and/or Elway should be fired "only" if they put Manning back in and he sucks. Not just "held accountable" but FIRED; that's what comments like "if someone's designing Hindenburgs they shouldn't be designing airships" and "if Manning crashes and burns, so should some coaching (and maybe exec) jobs."

Oh, I'm shocked that you once again tried to stuff words in my mouth. Don't be surprised if I'm done arguing with you. You aren't arguing anything of substance other than trying to catch me in a minor contradiction that is (and has been) easily cleared up.
I didn't say a word to you until YOU said that if we start Manning again and and he bombs coaches and possibly even ELWAY should be fired. You continue vassilating on that: You claim to have merely said they should be accountable, yet still insist they should be FIRED if they put Manning back in and he sucks. If they do what you don't want and it doesn't win a SB you'll have their jobs; yeah, doesn't really work like that, else I'd have fired McDumbass the moment he shopped Cutler.

Timmy!

12-01-2015, 05:29 PM

You are insufferable.

You misspelled "dipshit."

Timmy!

12-01-2015, 05:30 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

You'd have to burn all your old RED Bronco jerseys. The horror.

Cugel

12-01-2015, 05:36 PM

BTW: for those who for some reason don't know. Kubiak and Elway are close friends and have been since they roomed together in his first training camp. Elway wanted Kubiak as his coach as soon as he took over the duties as Football VP, but Kubiak was still the coach in Houston, so he got John Fox instead. Elway & Kubiak might be the closest coach-GM relationship in the NFL.

Elway's job is easily the safest in the NFL. In reality he answers to Joe Ellis who is in over-all charge, and together they report to the Bowlen family. But, with Pat Bowlen incompetent, there's really nobody who would be likely to resist anything that Joe Ellis really wanted. It would be just too hard for them to get rid of Joe Ellis when he's been the Bowlen family retainer for so long and has done well by them over the years in the non-football operations ($). When Pat got alzheimers and could no longer continue to oversee the team he basically passed that duty to Joe Ellis.

So, realistically for Elway to be fired he'd have to alienate Joe Ellis in some way, and they are quite close. I'm not saying it couldn't happen if the team struggled for years and it was clearly due to poor GM selections. But, that ain't happening any time soon.

Elway and Kubiak could select Captain Crunch as their starting QB and unless they lost 10 or more games in consecutive years, they'd probably get away with it.

8087

BroncoJoe

12-01-2015, 05:40 PM

Yet more mind-blowing information from the front office expert.

:barf:

Tell us something most Broncos fans don't know.

chazoe60

12-01-2015, 05:50 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

I'll mark your words the same way a dog marks things.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 05:59 PM

Your first post was in RESPONSE to something I said AN HOUR-AND-A-HALF LATER? Guess this really IS a "prognostication" thread. I responded to your over the top comment, not the reverse: THAT order DOES matter, so let's keep it straight.

The context of that is that you said Kubes and/or Elway should be fired "only" if they put Manning back in and he sucks. Not just "held accountable" but FIRED; that's what comments like "if someone's designing Hindenburgs they shouldn't be designing airships" and "if Manning crashes and burns, so should some coaching (and maybe exec) jobs."

I didn't say a word to you until YOU said that if we start Manning again and and he bombs coaches and possibly even ELWAY should be fired. You continue vassilating on that: You claim to have merely said they should be accountable, yet still insist they should be FIRED if they put Manning back in and he sucks. If they do what you don't want and it doesn't win a SB you'll have their jobs; yeah, doesn't really work like that, else I'd have fired McDumbass the moment he shopped Cutler.

You win Joel. I see the light now. I said what I said in error. Elway should be immune from ever being fired, or not, or whatever it is you are bitching about.

Cugel

12-01-2015, 06:01 PM

Yet more mind-blowing information from the front office expert.

:barf:

Tell us something most Broncos fans don't know.

Most Broncos fans DO know it, just not the ones that suggest that Elway could be fired for any reason.

TXBRONC

12-01-2015, 06:16 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

Unfortunately this is nothing more than an empty promise. :coffee:

Joel

12-01-2015, 06:19 PM

You win Joel. I see the light now. I said what I said in error. Elway should be immune from ever being fired, or not, or whatever it is you are bitching about.
Not what I said, but YOUR claim that starting an aging HoFer despite Oz "proving himself" in 4-6 starts would get Kubes and ELWAY fired instantly unless it won a SB was absurd. All of us (including you) knew that, hence I REPLIED to that INITIAL comment by saying so, then we went down the whole "I specifically said I didn't say the thing I specifically said; stop putting words in my mouth" rabbit trail. The context is a hyperbolic statement was called for what it was, but the author keeps doubling down while walking it back.

Bronco4ever

12-01-2015, 06:20 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

Your loyal fandom will be missed. :coffee:

Slick

12-01-2015, 06:23 PM

Yash will be back to bitch about it but he'll have to get in line. If Manning trots out there again in a meaningful game I'm going to lose it.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 07:03 PM

Not what I said, but YOUR claim that starting an aging HoFer despite Oz "proving himself" in 4-6 starts would get Kubes and ELWAY fired instantly unless it won a SB was absurd. All of us (including you) knew that, hence I REPLIED to that INITIAL comment by saying so, then we went down the whole "I specifically said I didn't say the thing I specifically said; stop putting words in my mouth" rabbit trail. The context is a hyperbolic statement was called for what it was, but the author keeps doubling down while walking it back.

You win Joel. I see the light now. I said what I said in error. Elway should be immune from ever being fired, or not, or whatever it is you are bitching about.

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 07:12 PM

Yash will be back to bitch about it but he'll have to get in line. If Manning trots out there again in a meaningful game I'm going to lose it.

I will be right there in line with you.

MOtorboat

12-01-2015, 07:13 PM

Mark my words if manning comes back this year i am done with the broncos until they get a competent GM and HC.

Well, last week you lied and said you were done talking about Manning. How do we know this isn't another of your lies?

Joel

12-01-2015, 07:20 PM

You win Joel. I see the light now. I said what I said in error. Elway should be immune from ever being fired, or not, or whatever it is you are bitching about.
Heard you the first time. If it helps, I'M also sorry you said, "if Manning crashes and burns, coaches and maybe execs should, too." And DEEPLY sorry I replied.

wayninja

12-01-2015, 07:33 PM

Heard you the first time. If it helps, I'M also sorry you said, "if Manning crashes and burns, coaches and maybe execs should, too." And DEEPLY sorry I replied.

Yep, maybe they should. Glad we came full circle on it.

MOtorboat

12-01-2015, 07:35 PM

Elway might be on the block? That's crazy talk man, not because he's Elway, but because we've been perennial contenders since he took over.

Lunacy, but not really surprised anymore.

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 09:01 PM

Yes, you were the first to be totally WRONG. Congrats! :coffee:

The OL is still struggling in pass-protection. Osweiler has been sacked 8 times in the last 2 games, and 11 times overall this season in 2 and 1/3 games. Peyton, despite having perhaps the quickest release in the NFL and playing in the shot-gun virtually the entire time so that he's facing the defense and can see the rush all the way was still sacked 17 times in 9 games.

That ain't good. And no, on most of those plays it's not the fault of Brock Osweiler, he's not holding the ball too long, it's the fault of BAD OL pass-blocking.

They are run-blocking better with Osweiler under center but they are still getting Brock hit on almost every passing play.

Unless they get better I don't know if he can make it to the post-season without getting injured. He's already been pretty beaten up in only two games - which is exactly what Kubiak said in his press conference after the game.

How are you even still posting? Lmao you been wrong about everything

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 09:04 PM

Well, last week you lied and said you were done talking about Manning. How do we know this isn't another of your lies?

I was dragged back into speaking of manning, not necessarily talking about him.

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 09:07 PM

I was dragged back into speaking of manning, not necessarily talking about him.

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5LK90Xhx0U60V5quxJX-MKDpU7U=/0x18:400x243/1600x900/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/46458486/jackie-chan-illuminati.0.0.jpg

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 09:08 PM

Yash will be back to bitch about it but he'll have to get in line. If Manning trots out there again in a meaningful game I'm going to lose it.

Maybe you're right, i just dont know how any competent GM and HC could decide manning gives us the best chance to win and trot him back out there. I swear it better not happen though. The broncos would lose half there fan base and playoff tickets will be sold to whoever the visiting team is.

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 09:11 PM

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5LK90Xhx0U60V5quxJX-MKDpU7U=/0x18:400x243/1600x900/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/46458486/jackie-chan-illuminati.0.0.jpg

:D :lol:

MOtorboat

12-01-2015, 09:13 PM

I'm not talking about Manning you're talking about Manning!

BroncoWave

12-01-2015, 09:15 PM

I'm not talking about Manning you're talking about Manning!

He's not taking about Manning, he's just "speaking of" him. It's totally different!

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 09:20 PM

Your loyal fandom will be missed. :coffee:

Thank you for acknowledging my loyalty. I will never give up on the orange and blue though. I just wouldn't take neither serious

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 09:22 PM

I'm not talking about Manning you're talking about Manning!

Just quit dragging me into manning talk okay?

MOtorboat

12-01-2015, 09:38 PM

Just quit dragging me into manning talk okay?

No one drug you into this thread or made you post at gun point. You posted under your own volition.

You a liar, bro.

I Eat Staples

12-01-2015, 09:43 PM

I was dragged back into speaking of manning, not necessarily talking about him.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TXBRONC

12-01-2015, 10:03 PM

Thank you for acknowledging my loyalty. I will never give up on the orange and blue though. I just wouldn't take neither serious

I don't know about that but I know your adolescent mentality will not be missed. :coffee:

Timmy!

12-01-2015, 10:20 PM

Yash will be back to bitch about it but he'll have to get in line. If Manning trots out there again in a meaningful game I'm going to lose it.

Define "meaningful"........because, right or wrong, I think we see 18 again this year. #nostratimmy

As for how I'd feel about it: I'm happy I don't have to make the call. I bleed orange either way. If, and I mean friggin if, we go that route, 18 has to be A: 100% healthy, and B: on the shortest least imaginable. Ride the hot hand. #montanagiraffe

Timmy!

12-01-2015, 10:21 PM

Thank you for acknowledging my loyalty. I will never give up on the orange and blue though. I just wouldn't take neither serious

:pound: riiiiiiiiiight.

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 10:48 PM

I don't know about that but I know your adolescent mentality will not be missed. :coffee:

Move around.

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 10:53 PM

Define "meaningful"........because, right or wrong, I think we see 18 again this year. #nostratimmy

As for how I'd feel about it: I'm happy I don't have to make the call. I bleed orange either way. If, and I mean friggin if, we go that route, 18 has to be A: 100% healthy, and B: on the shortest least imaginable. Ride the hot hand. #montanagiraffe

Wow nut im the one with issues? This guy here is fine with peyton manning trotting back out as the starter lol, same manning who was healthy was absolutely terrible with 9tds and 17ints in 9 games.

12-01-2015, 10:54 PM

No one drug you into this thread or made you post at gun point. You posted under your own volition. You a liar, bro.

Yash? At gun point? He trains bro.

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 10:55 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whats so funny!

Yashahla17

12-01-2015, 10:59 PM

Yash? At gun point? He trains bro.

Don't make mockery of my training bro, militias train just like the military, as a matter of fact nearly 80% of the militia are ex military. But of course you wouldn't know that.

Timmy!

12-02-2015, 12:12 AM

Maybe you're right, i just dont know how any competent GM and HC could decide manning gives us the best chance to win and trot him back out there. I swear it better not happen though. The broncos would lose half there fan base and playoff tickets will be sold to whoever the visiting team is.

:pound:

Holy shit man.

Timmy!

12-02-2015, 12:14 AM

Wow nut im the one with issues? This guy here is fine with peyton manning trotting back out as the starter lol, same manning who was healthy was absolutely terrible with 9tds and 17ints in 9 games.

Read more carefully. English mother******, do you speak it?

Joel

12-02-2015, 03:39 AM

I'm filing suit against this thread for pain and mental anguish. Or painfully mental anguish.

12-02-2015, 07:15 AM

militias train just like the military, as a matter of fact nearly 80% of the militia are ex military.

No they don't. But cool. All the respect in the world for military and prior military. They're the real warriors. Not you.

Joel

12-02-2015, 08:10 AM

I find it hard to believe 80% of able-bodied US males 17-45 are ex-military anyway (and not just because there's no such thing as an ex-Marine.) I only wish that were so (and not just because of general discipline issues.) Leading the way in ending peace time drafts was a grave mistake, IMHO, and if we have to throw down with Russia or China, either will have a huge advantage in trained experienced reservists to mobilize at a moments notice. We won't just overwhelm that with superior equipment that no longer IS.

We'd be better off, or at least far better prepared, if most of the unorganized militia were trained by experienced regular military combat vets, so they were a lot less "unorganized" and a lot more "militia." But five guys sitting in the bed of a retired quartermasters pickup in the woods, drinking beer, shooting targets and ranting about "the truth of 911," don't qualify (in any sense.) I'd like to give Yoshis group the benefit of a doubt here, but imagining him around a drill instructor.... :shocked: