Bill Belichick and Ted Thompson had the balls to do it.

[Broncoknight30]

Let us just assume for just one moment that Oz continues to operate the offense efficiently. Is it really prudent to go back to the QB that the offense was stagnant and inconsistent with?

When Bill Belichick decided to stick with Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe in 2001, many Pats fans were upset with Belichick over how he treated Bledsoe. Belichick was criticized in the media too and that included veterans who thought Bledsoe should have been treated better. If you think Belichick knew Brady was going to turn into this hall of fame, "all time great" who would guide the team to 6 SBs and 4 rings, then you would be crazy. All he knew at the time was the offense was responding to Brady. He chose to do what was the unpopular thing and he chose correctly.

Very similar situation with Favre and Rodgers. Favre was going back and forth with what he wanted to do as far as retirement. Rodgers was in his last year in 2008. The Packers had no clue what they had in Rodgers, as far as game conditions. Pretty sure they had a pretty decent idea as far as what they saw in practice. Ted Thompson made the very unpopular decision in getting rid of Favre.

Now, I am not saying Oz is gong to be Brady or Favre. My contention is if the offense continues to respond to Oz and IF he is efficient, then Kubiak/Elway will need to make a similar decision in my estimation. If that means cutting him loose and enduring the wrath of ignorant fans who refuse to accept Manning is not going to operate an offense that Kubiak will not be running, or the veterans now in the media who get offended then so be it. I for one would be behind them 100% if they make that decision (especially if the offense continues to respond and balance is established with Oz.)

[Dapper Dan]

Neither team had a Hall of Fame quarterback running the front office. I think Manning retires after this season after an honest conversation with JFE.

[gregbroncs]

Neither team had a Hall of Fame quarterback running the front office. I think Manning retires after this season after an honest conversation with JFE.I would believe this. Except that should have happened this last off season and didn't. Why should we expect it now? I'm skeptical that Manning believes he is done. Him seeing a specialist tells me he doesn't think he's done. Why is that different in the off season?

[Pudge]

I would believe this. Except that should have happened this last off season and didn't. Why should we expect it now? I'm skeptical that Manning believes he is done. Him seeing a specialist tells me he doesn't think he's done. Why is that different in the off season?

Why wouldn't you see a specialist? Seems like the logical thing to do when you suffer an injury regardless of whether you're a HOF qb or an average Joe.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Peyton did not suffer a season ending injury. I totally understand why he would like to play again this season, if he is physically able to. Many sports commentators have said either verbally, or in columns, that the Broncos need Peyton if they make it to the playoffs.

[SR]

Peyton did not suffer a season ending injury. I totally understand why he would like to play again this season, if he is physically able to. Many sports commentators have said either verbally, or in columns, that the Broncos need Peyton if they make it to the playoffs.

That's where I disagree. It's a fair assumption that if Peyton returns this season he will play the same way he has all season and that would hurt the team more than help it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Peyton Manning's injury came at perfect time for Broncos

http://www.outsports.com/2015/11/25/9796500/peyton-manning-injurt-brock-osweiler-denver-broncos-playoffs

very good article

[CrazyHorse]

Brady needed Bledsoe to beat the Steelers in the playoffs in 2001. Favre also had a really good season with the Vikings after playing pretty poorly for the Jets. Manning could make another appearance.

[gregbroncs]

Why wouldn't you see a specialist? Seems like the logical thing to do when you suffer an injury regardless of whether you're a HOF qb or an average Joe.Plantar Facilitis is fairly common and heals by itself with time, a good doctor would know this. I've known many who have had it and not needed a specialist. Seeing a specialist to me means he does not think he is done, and wanted a specialist to tell him if there was a quicker way to fix it. If he doesn't think it now why would he this coming off season?

[Dapper Dan]

I love Drew but Peyton isn't Bledsoe.

[Yashahla17]

That's where I disagree. It's a fair assumption that if Peyton returns this season he will play the same way he has all season and that would hurt the team more than help it.

Wow

[Yashahla17]

Peyton Manning's injury came at perfect time for Broncos

http://www.outsports.com/2015/11/25/9796500/peyton-manning-injurt-brock-osweiler-denver-broncos-playoffs

very good article

Yes it was just in time or we would have lost at least 4 games in a row with him.

[SR]

Wow

Clearly you don't pay attention.

[Pudge]

Plantar Facilitis is fairly common and heals by itself with time, a good doctor would know this. I've known many who have had it and not needed a specialist. Seeing a specialist to me means he does not think he is done, and wanted a specialist to tell him if there was a quicker way to fix it. If he doesn't think it now why would he this coming off season?

Really? If you had the resources available, you wouldn't want to benifit from them? "It'll heal eventually" That's stupid....

[Yashahla17]

No actually youve said that quite a few times, you just keep repeating it.

[gregbroncs]

Really? If you had the resources available, you wouldn't want to benifit from them? "It'll heal eventually" That's stupid....He was working with team doctors over what seems a fairly easy thing. Going to the Specialist says to me he wants to get better quicker than they think he will.
.
Sure if you have the resources available and you feel they can help, do it. I just said seeing the specialist is a cue to me that I doubt he thinks this is his last season. Either that or he did not like the info being given by the normal doctors.
.
My main point was I don't think Manning thinks he is playing his last season.

[Yashahla17]

He was working with team doctors over what seems a fairly easy thing. Going to the Specialist says to me he wants to get better quicker than they think he will.
.
Sure if you have the resources available and you feel they can help, do it. I just said seeing the specialist is a cue to me that I doubt he thinks this is his last season. Either that or he did not like the info being given by the normal doctors.
.
My main point was I don't think Manning thinks he is playing his last season.

I think you're right, Broncos doctors gave him a time table he didn't like or want to accept, so he went elsewhere hoping for news of a speedy return.

[Davii]

I think you're right, Broncos doctors gave him a time table he didn't like or want to accept, so he went elsewhere hoping for news of a speedy return.

As nearly every player does. This is standard practice.

[Yashahla17]

As nearly every player does. This is standard practice.

Maybe you're right.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, don't really blame Manning for getting a second opinion. I think pretty much anyone would.

[Simple Jaded]

I knew Yashashaler couldn't stop talking about Manning.

[MOtorboat]

Maybe you're right.

Not maybe.

Now we're dissecting him visiting a specialist? This is kind of getting ridiculous.

[Broncoknight30]

So, what did this "second opinion" reveal? Facts?

If his "plantar" thing is partially torn, and it is now a "fact" then shouldn't he get surgery? I mean from what I have been told and what I have heard people say that have had it, a full rupture is actually good.

I guess the question is.....What do we know for a fact?

I do find it interesting how we have not seen Manning limp at any point. Not even after his ouchy on his thigh he said he had last year after that abortion against the Colts in the play offs that just to happen to be two weeks prior the pro bowl game that the players hate to play in.

Huh....

We will chalk that up as just another one of those coincidences like when the "plantar thing" happened to happen immediately after he broke Favre's yards record. Oh, and those thinking he should get the wins record since he is tied with Favre should consider how that will not only be a record for about a year and half. Brady is like 20 games away from that, and I do not see him missing out on it.

Do you?

So, any facts after the second "opinion?"

[Dapper Dan]

Are you implying everyone is lying about Peyton being hurt?

[Broncoknight30]

Are you implying everyone is lying about Peyton being hurt?

No, I am suggesting that he has not limped with all of these devastating injuries. That is a fact. Anyone have any video of him limping at all? I have not seen it. Have you?

I am also stating that they were both revealed (only after losses) and coincidentally happened after favre's record was broken and the other two weeks before the pro bowl that no player wants to play in.

How many people do you know who had such painful problems with their legs did not limp? Is that odd?

To me, that is odd.

[Joel]

So, what did this "second opinion" reveal? Facts?

If his "plantar" thing is partially torn, and it is now a "fact" then shouldn't he get surgery? I mean from what I have been told and what I have heard people say that have had it, a full rupture is actually good.
Define "good." A complete tear means the heel and toe are no longer connected, which I've seen people say is pain-free but results in "dead leg," both of which make sense. What I've repeatedly and consistently read from many sources is that surgery is only recommended for ~1% of plantar fasciitis cases, and can actually make the condition WORSE (things like this are why it makes sense to get a second opinion from a leading specialist.)


I guess the question is.....What do we know for a fact?

I do find it interesting how we have not seen Manning limp at any point. Not even after his ouchy on his thigh he said he had last year after that abortion against the Colts in the play offs that just to happen to be two weeks prior the pro bowl game that the players hate to play in.

Huh....

We will chalk that up as just another one of those coincidences like when the "plantar thing" happened to happen immediately after he broke Favre's yards record. Oh, and those thinking he should get the wins record since he is tied with Favre should consider how that will not only be a record for about a year and half. Brady is like 20 games away from that, and I do not see him missing out on it.

Do you?

So, any facts after the second "opinion?"
Define "we," but either way, WE aren't privy to Mannings private conservations with a doctor, nor are we likely to be. A partial tear's not consistent with lack of limp, per se (since all sources agree it's excruciatingly painful) but pain tolerance is one of the factors cited in speed of recovery and functionality prior to full recovery. The reality is that "we" KNOW very little and always will, a situation rife for conspiracy theories precisely because anyone can say any fool thing and dare everyone else to prove a negative.

[Broncoknight30]

Define "good." A complete tear means the heel and toe are no longer connected, which I've seen people say is pain-free but results in "dead leg," both of which make sense. What I've repeatedly and consistently read from many sources is that surgery is only recommended for ~1% of plantar fasciitis cases, and can actually make the condition WORSE (things like this are why it makes sense to get a second opinion from a leading specialist.)


Define "we," but either way, WE aren't privy to Mannings private conservations with a doctor, nor are we likely to be. A partial tear's not consistent with lack of limp, per se (since all sources agree it's excruciatingly painful) but pain tolerance is one of the factors cited in speed of recovery and functionality prior to full recovery. The reality is that "we" KNOW very little and always will, a situation rife for conspiracy theories precisely because anyone can say any fool thing and dare everyone else to prove a negative.


In short, we know nothing for a FACT other than he did not limp at all in either of devastating injuries that happened only after losses and horrible play by Manning. Those are facts.

It is also a fact that one of the devastating injuries just so happened to happen after he broke the yards record that Manning was targeting, and the other one happened two weeks before the pro bowl that NFL players hate to play in.

Again, I appreciate what you are saying and you have presented facts medically. What we do not know for a fact, as you say, are the private conversations he has had with these special doctors.

That is all. Are my rhetorical questions (I guess that is what they are) suggesting stuff? Obviously. Anyone have any video or gif of Manning limping after the horrible thigh or the very painful plantar thing? If anyone does, can you upload it? I have been searching, and have not really found much.

Thanks. :coffee:

[MOtorboat]

Are you implying everyone is lying about Peyton being hurt?

Yes. He is.

[Valar Morghulis]

Are people saying we haven't seen Peyton limp.... Have we forgot that throw to Sanders when he could have crawled for the first down

I am just pleased he is rehabbing not playing through.

[BroncoWave]

Limp-Gate!

[Ravage!!!]

hasn't he been in a boot? Is knight suggesting that the 'boot' is purely for show and that he doesn't have a foot injury? Seriously?

[Joel]

Limp-Gate!
"What did the Quarterback know and when will we know it?" Answers: None of your business and never.

Meanwhile, when a HoF QB an 8-2 team gets hurt after midseason, "it'll heal EVENTUALLY, but no telling when" is far from a satisfying answer. In Mannings place, I'd have gone to see the specialist even if 100% sure this was my last season; if he IS sure of that, does anyone really think he wants that Chiefs disaster to be the last game of his career?

[NightTerror218]

Didn't he see the specialist to find out if he needed surgery or not?

Thought I read that.

[slim]

I love Drew but Peyton isn't Bledsoe.

Correct.

Bledsoe could still play when he got benched.

[Broncoknight30]

Correct.

Bledsoe could still play when he got benched.

The fact that the Pats would trade him to their division rival suggests that he really couldn't. He was always very one dimensional.

The simple fact is teams have had to make tough decisions. This is perhaps one of those situations.

Yes, it is dependent on how Oz looks going forward. How the offense looks going forward with Oz under center.

If (real big if) the offense that Kubiak wants to run looks more efficient with Oz, then he (the organization ) will need to make a tough decision. Throw the Montana and Young situation in there too.

[slim]

The fact that the Pats would trade him to their division rival suggests that he really couldn't. He was always very one dimensional.

The simple fact is teams have had to make tough decisions. This is perhaps one of those situations.

Yes, it is dependent on how Oz looks going forward. How the offense looks going forward with Oz under center.

If (real big if) the offense that Kubiak wants to run looks more efficient with Oz, then he (the organization ) will need to make a tough decision. Throw the Montana and Young situation in there too.

It was a joke.

Bledsoe could never play.

[Broncoknight30]

It was a joke.

Bledsoe could never play.

Yeah, I figured. Of course the Pats fans (at least many of them) thought he was still great and they did think it was not the right thing when Belichick chose to stick with Brady. Same with many in the media that included veterans.

[Yashahla17]

hasn't he been in a boot? Is knight suggesting that the 'boot' is purely for show and that he doesn't have a foot injury? Seriously?

Nobody around denver has seen him in a boot.

[Davii]

Nobody around denver has seen him in a boot.

Except for everyone at the game tonight. Stop trying to stir up shit troll.

[Yashahla17]

Well that was what people were saying prior to the public showing at the game. Either way im glad he's in his boot healing up for his next team next year.

[MOtorboat]

Well that was what people were saying prior to the public showing at the game. Either way im glad he's in his boot healing up for his next team next year.

No, that's what idiots and conspiracy theorists were saying.

You were wrong, in fact there was a lot of really dumb things said in the last week by people of your ilk. All of which have been proven demonstrably false.

Don't worry. I know you don't know what demonstrably means. Use Google.

[Yashahla17]

No, that's what idiots and conspiracy theorists were saying.

You were wrong, in fact there was a lot of really dumb things said in the last week by people of your ilk. All of which have been proven demonstrably false.

Don't worry. I know you don't know what demonstrably means. Use Google.

Either way i don't give a..... Aslong as he isn't playing im fine.

[MOtorboat]

Either way i don't give a..... Aslong as he isn't playing im fine.

The best part about this is you're STILL talking about Manning. And no one forced you to respond.

You a liar, bro.

[Cugel]

Plantar Facilitis is fairly common and heals by itself with time, a good doctor would know this. I've known many who have had it and not needed a specialist. Seeing a specialist to me means he does not think he is done, and wanted a specialist to tell him if there was a quicker way to fix it. If he doesn't think it now why would he this coming off season?

If the Broncos didn't want Peyton to play at all, they would have put him on IR. If Peyton didn't want to play this season, he wouldn't have needed a 2nd opinion.

But, the team is not required to start him. They could take the following positions:

1. If Peyton becomes completely healthy at some point in the next 5 weeks, they start him without regard to how Brock plays. Unlikely.

2. If Brock is injured and can't play, Peyton automatically comes in.

3. If Brock struggles and the team loses, and Peyton is completely healthy, he plays.

4. If Brock plays well, but the team loses, Peyton MIGHT still come back and start - if they think the team needs a spark. Unlikely.

5. Brock continues to play well and the team continues to win. Unlikely that they bring Peyton back in, but this is a hard choice for them. They might just say to him that they don't want to rock the boat so long as Brock is playing well and the team is winning. They might decide that Peyton gives them the best chance to win this season if he's completely healthy and the team is running the ball better.

That might not make a lot of fans happy, but they could decide this regardless of what fans might want.

[Broncoknight30]

If the Broncos didn't want Peyton to play at all, they would have put him on IR. If Peyton didn't want to play this season, he wouldn't have needed a 2nd opinion.

But, the team is not required to start him. They could take the following positions:

1. If Peyton becomes completely healthy at some point in the next 5 weeks, they start him without regard to how Brock plays. Unlikely.

2. If Brock is injured and can't play, Peyton automatically comes in.

3. If Brock struggles and the team loses, and Peyton is completely healthy, he plays.

4. If Brock plays well, but the team loses, Peyton MIGHT still come back and start - if they think the team needs a spark. Unlikely.

5. Brock continues to play well and the team continues to win. Unlikely that they bring Peyton back in, but this is a hard choice for them. They might just say to him that they don't want to rock the boat so long as Brock is playing well and the team is winning. They might decide that Peyton gives them the best chance to win this season if he's completely healthy and the team is running the ball better.

That might not make a lot of fans happy, but they could decide this regardless of what fans might want.

Of course they are going to keep their options open. For more reasons than one, they will see how it plays out. If Oz all of a sudden gets so scouted and he shits the bed, then Manning may very well be the best choice. It is only prudent to keep options open.

Give me your thoughts and please elaborate on what you think "completely healthy" means to you. He will be able to run bootlegs and keepers? He will have the same legs that he had in 2006? What if he did have the legs he had in 2006? Will he then be able to run the offense that the OL is built for and RBs are built for?

Please, what are you expecting or thinking fully healthy means?