Roger Goodell is a dick.

[Foochacho]

What's up with the penalties this year? The Seahawks mauled the shit out of receivers the year they won the Super Bowl. If we lay a finger on them we get a penalty call. Hell they can maul our cb and we get called.

The only explanation I can think of is Goodell hates defensive teams, he has been trying for years to make it as easy as he can on Qb's. That superbowl must of pissed him off he was expecting a big showdown. So I guess he decided to make it easier in offensive teams. The refs have been told to be more aggressive against aggressive teams. Doesn't matter what ref crew it is, they all **** over the defense. How can the best pass rush in the league only have 4 holding calls against them? If the refs called all the penalties for holding, or called pass interference correctly we would kick the shit out of these other teams. Goodell must hate dominate D.

[Foochacho]

I am not much of a conspiracy theorist but I just can't get over the lack of no calls.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Goodell has commented on the lack of consistency with penalties being called.

[GEM]

He needs to get on the horn with Spikerman and put our guy to work. Spike would have this mess cleaned up in no time!

[chazoe60]

The rules are getting too complicated and way too subjective. I saw about 5 plays this week that were as bad or worse than Ward's personal foul that weren't called. A Patriots pass rusher hit Tyrod right in the earhole with his forearm last night much worse than two that the Broncos were called for this season and no flag. Brock slid feet first and a DL jumped on him after the whistle and no call.

Ward gets called for hitting a guy in the chest and a Cardinals LB hits a Bengals WR square in the head right in front of a ref and no call (I was rooting for the Cards by the way but the call should have been made).

I hate the inconsistency of the calls. I despise the ridiculously punitive nature of PI calls. It's getting too hard to ref and it is aparent because this is the absolute worst season of NFL officiating that I have ever witnessed.

[Dzone]

Its gotten ridiculous. So ridiculous that we have to listen to the idiot mike carrey during games

[blamkin86]

Not that it made any difference, but KC was holding just about every time the camera showed their O-Line.

That call hasn't changed at all - but I do wonder if they're swallowing the whistle sometimes.

Honestly, back in the day, NASCAR was kind of a joke because there was always a need to bunch up the field whenever a favorite got way behind.

I don't really think there's any conspiracy like that going on in the NFL but I am starting to wonder what the hell is going on.

Sort it out.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The Patriots are the least penalized team in the league. Part of thay is preparation, and part of it is league bias, imo.

What was funny about the whistle blowing last night on the controversial reception by Amendola is the ref hastily blew the whistle in an attempt to protect Brady from getting hit.

[Dzone]

With all the betting and money involved would seem hard to prevent a desperate ref from going rogue like Tim Donaghy did in the nba

[Dapper Dan]

I'm pretty sure there's a committee that deals with it. I don't think it has much to do with Goodell.

[Dzone]

Ok, so the average NFL ref salary is around $180,000. Thats pretty good, but is it enough to keep someone from taking 10 times that amount to influence a game

[LawDog]

What's up with the penalties this year? The Seahawks mauled the shit out of receivers the year they won the Super Bowl. If we lay a finger on them we get a penalty call. Hell they can maul our cb and we get called.

The only explanation I can think of is Goodell hates defensive teams, he has been trying for years to make it as easy as he can on Qb's. That superbowl must of pissed him off he was expecting a big showdown. So I guess he decided to make it easier in offensive teams. The refs have been told to be more aggressive against aggressive teams. Doesn't matter what ref crew it is, they all **** over the defense. How can the best pass rush in the league only have 4 holding calls against them? If the refs called all the penalties for holding, or called pass interference correctly we would kick the shit out of these other teams. Goodell must hate dominate D.

Denver's defense has only been the beneficiary of 4 offensive holding calls? I couldn't believe that, so I looked it up and sure enough it is true. So the top ranked D also has the least amount of offensive holding calls. And that's not all, of the five defenses with the least amount of holding calls (Den 4, Bal 6, Tampa 9, Seattle 10, and Carolina 10), three of the five also rank in the top five in total defense (Den 1, Seattle 2, and Carolina 4). You could make the argument that these top teams are also better at getting off blocks and getting home to the QB (avoiding the hold), but I've watched enough football over the past 35 years to know that teams getting pressure are the ones most likely to be getting held. This is a strange statistical situation to say the least...

[Ravage!!!]

Ok, so the average NFL ref salary is around $180,000. Thats pretty good, but is it enough to keep someone from taking 10 times that amount to influence a game

wait... so you are suggesting the refs are either being paid off or setting bets themselves, in HOPES that the ref can influence the game?? come on.

[tripp]

I don't know what a catch is anymore after watching Odell Beckham's TD ruled incomplete.

[Joel]

I'm pretty sure there's a committee that deals with it. I don't think it has much to do with Goodell.
That's true of pretty much everything in the NFL, but most people forget it. Since terminal cancer forced Rozelle into retirement, commissioners have reverted to no more than errand boys and spokesmen for the ACTUAL decision makers paying them huge salaries to announce and take the heat for those decisions.

More passing=more scoring=more excitment=more ratings=more money. It's that simple; the rest (or most of it) is just symptomatic of that.

[Joel]

I don't know what a catch is anymore after watching Odell Beckham's TD ruled incomplete.
Don't feel bad, man: NO ONE does, including/especially the guys responsible for telling the rest of us.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm beyond thinking it's just incompetence.

[Joel]

I'm beyond thinking it's just incompetence.
Of course not: It's marketing. Really BAD marketing, but the NFL seems to have cornered the bad marketing market. ;) I know, I know: It's the nations most popular and worlds most profitable sport; it HAS been for decades. The question's whether the gap's getting wider or narrower, and the systematic, pathetically transparent, efforts to boost ratings and revenue strongly suggest an answer. Passing is to the NFL what chase scenes are to (other) entertainment media, but flat tires on the getaway car aren't suspenseful.

[DenBronx]

Ok, so the average NFL ref salary is around $180,000. Thats pretty good, but is it enough to keep someone from taking 10 times that amount to influence a game

wait... so you are suggesting the refs are either being paid off or setting bets themselves, in HOPES that the ref can influence the game?? come on.


You don't think that's possible or has never happened?

[Simple Jaded]

Of course not: It's marketing. Really BAD marketing, but the NFL seems to have cornered the bad marketing market. ;) I know, I know: It's the nations most popular and worlds most popular sport; it HAS been for decades. The question's whether the gap's getting wider or narrower, and the systematic, pathetically transparent, efforts to boost ratings and revenue strongly suggest an answer. Passing is to the NFL what chase scenes are to (other) entertainment media, but flat tires on the getaway car aren't suspenseful.
That too, but not what I meant, I don't think the bad officiating we see is simply officials making/missing bad calls.

[Dzone]

You don't think that's possible or has never happened?

Yes, was just asking the question if a Tim Donaghy type scandal could ever be possible in football. There is so much money now being bet on NFL games. A rookie NFL ref makes $78,000 a year. Thats not much. If there is any truth to the notion that every man has a price. I am sure there is tight security, but that NBA scandal has to make you wonder. Corruption happens. Greed makes people do outrageous things. In a dark corner of a bar, over a few drinks. With so many nuances on every play of football and so many shades of gray in the rule book, if a ref wanted to go rogue probably wouldnt be too difficult.

[Joel]

That too, but not what I meant, I don't think the bad officiating we see is simply officials making/missing bad calls.
It's really hard to be sure, because there multiple explanations are possible, few mutually exclusive, and most hard to isolate. For example:

I've felt for a while that many refs give bad teams more breaks and good teams fewer, because blow outs are bad for ratings (and the NFLs had enough blow out SBs to be keenly aware of that.) But it could be sub/conscious pity instead or in addition, or a sense good teams shouldn't need breaks, while bad ones do. But how could we check that basic supposition? Not by comparing penalties to records, because part of what makes bad/good un/successful teams just that is screwing up less/more than most.

What I do know is it's not Vegas, because Vegas couldn't care less who wins as long as everyone BETS both sides equally. Which actually is another argument for the above policy of contrived rather than inherent parity, and against outright fixing favoritism. Ultimately, actual fixing is as bad for Vegas as for the NFL, and for the same reason: People won't invest money in outcomes knowing they're predetermined (except in wrestling and other theater, where everyone knows they're just paying for a show.)

[Simple Jaded]

I don't think it's Vegas or pity, it's the NFL controlling the outcome.

[Joel]

I don't think it's Vegas or pity, it's the NFL controlling the outcome.
Well, whether it's the NFL or Vegas, the likely motive, intent and effect are the same. Sadly, the NFL seems intent on throwing good money after bad, and currently has plenty to spare. But as a Houstonian born just a few years after the US landed on the moon and old enough to have witnessed The Comeback, I can attest there's no such thing as an insurmountable lead. This, after all, is the sport that coined the phrase about teams that "never lost, just ran out of time."

[spikerman]

I would be shocked if they ever found an official purposely trying to influence a game. I have probably told this story before, but every official has a pre-snap routine (verifying down and distance, checking your keys, etc.) One of the things I do before every down is remind myself who has the ball. I get so focused on my job that it's necessary. Early on in my career there were times when there was a long pass down the field and once it was caught I wasn't sure if it was a catch or interception. Now, I would never claim to be on an NFL official's level, but as fast and complex as the game is I just don't see a guy being able to process information that quickly. Besides, I truly believe that those guys have tremendous integrity and have worked very hard to get to the top of their field. They wouldn't throw it away.

[Simple Jaded]

The officials never officiate both teams in a game consistently anymore and the reasons given feel far more like excuses now.

[MOtorboat]

So what's the end game to this? What conspiracy is this constant moaning about referees ending with?

Sorry if I think this whole thing is utterly ridiculous, but what are people implying by these complaints?

Because the ironic thing is if there is a conspiracy, it's not working out for the so-called perpetrators. Denver won both its games where the penalties were lop-sided. Chicago won tonight.

IN terms of the Broncos, that defense is wildly undisciplined and the offensive line is terrible. Maybe they should do a better job of not drawing penalties?

[Joel]

I would be shocked if they ever found an official purposely trying to influence a game. I have probably told this story before, but every official has a pre-snap routine (verifying down and distance, checking your keys, etc.) One of the things I do before every down is remind myself who has the ball. I get so focused on my job that it's necessary. Early on in my career there were times when there was a long pass down the field and once it was caught I wasn't sure if it was a catch or interception. Now, I would never claim to be on an NFL official's level, but as fast and complex as the game is I just don't see a guy being able to process information that quickly. Besides, I truly believe that those guys have tremendous integrity and have worked very hard to get to the top of their field. They wouldn't throw it away.
No disrespect intended, but the gap between your level and theirs is much smaller for refs than for players.

I bet you've had a few hotdog punks try to "educate" you on rules you've been studying and enforcing longer than they've been alive; now imagine how that would feel if they made 100X your salary and didn't hesitate to declare that reduced you to merely one of their accessories with no more (or even less) value and importance than their jock straps. Then imagine someone shoved a duffel full of hundred dollars bill in your face just to look the other way once or twice the next time one of those guys was on the field.

It's not that NFL refs aren't professionals (well, not SOLELY that) who don't respect and love the game, but the positive and negative leverage that can be applied to people in their position. One reason salaries for making a living by playing a game half the year have risen so much is to reduce the temptation of huge illegal offers to throw games and make it a negative financial proposition for players whose careers would end if caught. But refs don't get paid like that.

I've always had the deepest respect for refs who excel at the difficult job of mastering and applying all NFL rules to real-time situations often difficult to fully observe, especially those who can clearly and thoroughly explain it on the stadium mic: BOTH those guys are awesome; it's a shame they can only do two games/week. :tongue: But all people are fallible, and that definitely includes morally. I'm not saying fixing's systemic or common, but declaring it impossible is as implausible as declaring it the norm.


The officials never officiate both teams in a game consistently anymore and the reasons given feel far more like excuses now.
^^THAT^^ I could and usually did forgive the ol' "blow one down there, blow one down here" bit because we're all fallible humans, and, even absent deliberate attempts to "make up" for belatedly recognized errors, it pretty much evened out over the course of five months. Raiders fans disagreed, but everyone else agreed the only reason they led the NFL in penalties annually for decades was that they had a dirty owner who actively selected dirty players. It's different now. Very different.

Rules are increasingly and systematically created to level the trees, not the forest, and close calls usually go in favor of the cool kids and populars team. Thus Americas Team benefits from lots of questionable playoff calls in against perennial trouble-making losers like the Lions, but finds themselves on the wrong end of those same dubious calls the following week against the NFLs original darlings from GB (in retrospect, the Fail Mary vs. GB practically declared a Seahawks dynasty before it happened.)

All that said, blaming the refs or even Goodell is killing literal messengers for policy 32 owners wrote to maximize profits while the lone commissioner answerable to all of them can only look on helplessly while trying to figure out ways to rationalize it for the fans, often for the courts as well. He can overrule any ONE owner as long as the other 31 stand behind him, but expecting him to lay down laws they wrote on ALL his collective bosses is expecting a fantasy: There are easier ways to commit suicide.

[Dapper Dan]

I don't have a problem with refs messing up a play in real time. I hate when they review it and still screw it up. But that isn't often.

[Simple Jaded]

So what's the end game to this? What conspiracy is this constant moaning about referees ending with?

Sorry if I think this whole thing is utterly ridiculous, but what are people implying by these complaints?

Because the ironic thing is if there is a conspiracy, it's not working out for the so-called perpetrators. Denver won both its games where the penalties were lop-sided. Chicago won tonight.

IN terms of the Broncos, that defense is wildly undisciplined and the offensive line is terrible. Maybe they should do a better job of not drawing penalties?

I won't imply anything this time, I'm saying the NFL screws teams over on a weekly basis, on purpose. They don't just officiate the game, they literally **** teams over, on purpose. My guess the end game is much the same as deflating balls, taping walk-through's and bugging locker rooms.

Btw, I'm not talking about TJ Ward spearing Cutler on the ground, I'm talking about bullshit holding calls on Kayvon Webster that directly lead to TDs for the other team, I'm talking about the lack of holding and hands to the face calls on the other teams OL.

[MOtorboat]

I won't imply anything this time, I'm saying the NFL screws teams over on a weekly basis, on purpose. They don't just officiate the game, they literally **** teams over, on purpose. My guess the end game is much the same as deflating balls, taping walk-through's and bugging locker rooms.

Btw, I'm not talking about TJ Ward spearing Cutler on the ground, I'm talking about bullshit holding calls on Kayvon Webster that directly lead to TDs for the other team, I'm talking about the lack of holding and hands to the face calls on the other teams OL.

So it's a conspiracy against the Broncos?

And why? Why would the league have something against Denver?

And their nefarious plan failed.

[Valar Morghulis]

Lol nefarious

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Honestly, with all the personal fouls our defense has accumulated I think they've gotten the rep of being "dirty" and the refs watch them more than the other teams. I think it may also color their judgement on when they decide to throw a flag against our opponent. If it's close on us, it's a flag. If it's close on them, it's not.

[Simple Jaded]

So it's a conspiracy against the Broncos?

And why? Why would the league have something against Denver?

And their nefarious plan failed.
I haven't got to the bottom of it. . .yet.

You'll know as soon as I know.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't know how high this goes but I plan to find out.

If anything should happen to me. . .you know. . .

[Joel]

Honestly, with all the personal fouls our defense has accumulated I think they've gotten the rep of being "dirty" and the refs watch them more than the other teams. I think it may also color their judgement on when they decide to throw a flag against our opponent. If it's close on us, it's a flag. If it's close on them, it's not.
Lots of dirty teams have lived in denial, but that doesn't explain why GB and Chicago EACH had more penalties last night than they had COMBINED against us: The Packers were flagged all of twice in Denver, and Chicago was NEVER flagged last week. Just 2 months after breaking their half-century-old franchise record for penalty yardage (http://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-football/7/71/975175/bears-set-franchise-record-penalty-yards-game). If they suddenly and inexplicably turned into boy scouts in Denver, what happened 4 days later to get them flagged 8 times?

It often seems to matter whom you are/play, and when teams win multiple-score victories against people who severely outclass them in EVERY category, the list of penalties usually offers the sole and very dubious explanation. I still think it's mainly "fiat parity" for ratings, with maybe a little large market/fanbase favoritism thrown in, but what it's definitely NOT is consistent or equal. These days it's more like "blow one down there, blow the SAME ONE down here."

[spikerman]

I don't know how high this goes but I plan to find out.

If anything should happen to me. . .you know. . .

On a totally unrelated topic, Roger Goodell called me and asked if I knew where you live. I told him no, but I'd try to find out. It seemed legit.

[MOtorboat]

Lots of dirty teams have lived in denial, but that doesn't explain why GB and Chicago EACH had more penalties last night than they had COMBINED against us: The Packers were flagged all of twice in Denver, and Chicago was NEVER flagged last week. Just 2 months after breaking their half-century-old franchise record for penalty yardage (http://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-football/7/71/975175/bears-set-franchise-record-penalty-yards-game). If they suddenly and inexplicably turned into boy scouts in Denver, what happened 4 days later to get them flagged 8 times?

It often seems to matter whom you are/play, and when teams win multiple-score victories against people who severely outclass them in EVERY category, the list of penalties usually offers the sole and very dubious explanation. I still think it's mainly "fiat parity" for ratings, with maybe a little large market/fanbase favoritism thrown in, but what it's definitely NOT is consistent or equal. These days it's more like "blow one down there, blow the SAME ONE down here."

Dallas is probably the most high profile team in the league with a massive market. That didn't do them any favors yesterday.

[Joel]

Dallas is probably the most high profile team in the league with a massive market. That didn't do them any favors yesterday.
Yeah, but pretty much everyone but their fans hates them, especially since Jerry came to town. Then again, everyone but their fans hated them when Landry MADE them boy scouts. Anyway, if the NFL cared about angering their fanbase or local neighbors, the three greatest dynasties of the past 50 years wouldn't have stopped the Cowboys just short of umpteen championships (half a dozen come to mind immediately as the reason I hate GB, half the reason I hate SF, and a third of the reason I hate Pitt.)

Screwing Dallas pleases far more people than it angers, and isn't bad for ratings. And I was already wondering if Carolinas end zone Int on Brady two years ago (which Cheatriot fans still swear the WR could've teleported 10' in a fraction of a second to catch through Kuechly if not "interfered" with) presages the same future for them that Seattles Fail Mary vs. GB did (coincidentally or not.) Teams can go a long way, catch a lot of breaks and get away with a lot of crap when the NFL gives them carte blanche.

That's how NE* taped and deflated its way from a half-century as perennial AFL whipping boy to the most successful SB franchise in NFL history, in barely a decade. Seattle's the same: 35 years of constant pathos only once interrupted when Pitt was finally given its "one for the thumb" (and how we got three pages into THIS thread without mentioning THAT game I don't know.) A few PEDs and blindside headshots later and it was Fail Mary, SB champs and SB losers in just three years.

The NFL too often looks too much like the WWF far: The outcome is whatever fits the most marketable narrative, and far more often than talent or chance alone should allow.

[MOtorboat]

Yeah, but pretty much everyone but their fans hates them, especially since Jerry came to town. Then again, everyone but their fans hated them when Landry MADE them boy scouts. Anyway, if the NFL cared about angering their fanbase or local neighbors, the three greatest dynasties of the past 50 years wouldn't have stopped the Cowboys just short of umpteen championships (half a dozen come to mind immediately as the reason I hate GB, half the reason I hate SF, and a third of the reason I hate Pitt.)

Screwing Dallas pleases far more people than it angers, and isn't bad for ratings. And I was already wondering if Carolinas end zone Int on Brady two years ago (which Cheatriot fans still swear the WR could've teleported 10' in a fraction of a second to catch through Kuechly if not "interfered" with) presages the same future for them that Seattles Fail Mary vs. GB did (coincidentally or not.) Teams can go a long way, catch a lot of breaks and get away with a lot of crap when the NFL gives them carte blanche.

That's how NE* taped and deflated its way from a half-century as perennial AFL whipping boy to the most successful SB franchise in NFL history, in barely a decade. Seattle's the same: 35 years of constant pathos only once interrupted when Pitt was finally given its "one for the thumb" (and how we got three pages into THIS thread without mentioning THAT game I don't know.) A few PEDs and blindside headshots later and it was Fail Mary, SB champs and SB losers in just three years.

The NFL too often looks too much like the WWF far: The outcome is whatever fits the most marketable narrative, and far more often than talent or chance alone should allow.

so, they're purposefully ******* Dallas for ratings in this thread. But ratings are down in another?

You're conspiracies don't jive, man.

[Simple Jaded]

On a totally unrelated topic, Roger Goodell called me and asked if I knew where you live. I told him no, but I'd try to find out. It seemed legit.

I don't scare easy zebra.

[Joel]

so, they're purposefully ******* Dallas for ratings in this thread. But ratings are down in another?

You're conspiracies don't jive, man.
How so? Flat ratings prove the league's not trying to boost ratings? If anything, they're further incentive for the league to do just; never said it was WORKING.