Is Brock a better fit for Kubiak's system

[Northman]

Pretty obvious for all of us here but this was an article that popped up today.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000581283/article/is-brock-osweiler-a-better-fit-for-broncos-offense


Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN) great Terrell Davis said Monday morning on NFL Network's NFL HQ that because of Osweiler, Manning's injury wouldn't bring doom and gloom to Denver, at least in the short term.
"You talk about a quarterback that is mobile, and that is what Gary Kubiak really wants in an offense," Davis said. "I think Brock Osweiler (http://www.nfl.com/player/brockosweiler/2533436/profile) can run the offense that Kubiak wants to run. I think for a short period of time he can be a pretty good quarterback, obviously with the weapons he is surrounded with."

Osweiler enters the final year of his rookie contract, so tossing him into the fire should provide a better idea about his future when Manning eventually exits for good. The 24-year-old passer has gotten internal praise within the Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN) organization, but didn't flash much promise to the outside world until this preseason.




Osweiler moved the ball during his lengthy preseason appearances, as he showed good touch on his huge deep ball and solid poise in the pocket.

[tripp]

I was happy to see that he didn't look nervous yesterday. Showed great poise and didn't rush anything. Was able to scramble out of the pocket and make plays. Mistakes are bound to happen, but it is what it is.


Happy that Omaha is still being called.

[silkamilkamonico]

I think everyone knew Brock was going to more of a type of QB than Kubiak would go for when Denver would hire Kubes.

Brock had good stats in relief duty against a prevent defense and a team who had no tape on him but the real test will be when he has 3-4 games under his belt. He did well but I didn't exactly get the feeling that we were going to be in good hands with him either, but then again there was so much more happening. Time will tell I guess.

[Mike]

I said it back in preseason, Brock looked more comfortable in the system than Manning. So did Siemien. The offense moved the ball more efficiently under both than with Manning.

Love Manning, great guy, great competitor, sorry to see it end this way. But I think the offense will be better with Brock and that in turn will help the defense. Still expect bumps and bruises from starting an inexperienced QB, but I look forward to seeing a full Kubiak game plan with Os.

[silkamilkamonico]

But I think the offense will be better with Brock and that in turn will help the defense. .

Please don't say this, because everyone knows in a couple to few weeks, regardless of what happens with Brock, that Kubiak is going to go back to Manning when he's healthy. That will be a whole lot of drama if Brock comes in and performs well.

[Bronco4ever]

I didn't realize Brock is still only 24 years old. I think sitting and learning for 3.5 years has done a lot of good for him. He seems to have good command of the offense. He might not have Manning's mind and experiences, but he's definitely physically capable of running this offense and being effective. Let's hope he's up for the challenge.

[G_Money]

As you said, obviously a better fit for Kube's offense. Doesn't mean he'll be a better QB even as a better fit, nor that he can cover up for that worthless OL performance any better, but at least bootlegs will have some effect and deep balls are back in play, which might open a running lane or two.

I hope Peyton sits for 3 weeks or so - he needs to heal up, and I'd like to see what Brock has for the future before we commit a chunk of change to him this offseason. Hopefully it'll get us through this stretch and prep us for next year at the same time.

[BroncoJoe]

I've said it before - Kubiak wasn't brought in for Manning. He was brought in for the post-Manning era.

Brock fits the mold.

[G_Money]

I've said it before - Kubiak wasn't brought in for Manning. He was brought in for the post-Manning era.

Brock fits the mold.

I really want Oz to be a good quarterback. Fingers crossed on that. I'm curious about what we'll do in the draft at QB. We have Siemian (who I like) but this might shape up as a weird draft where pretty decent QB prospects fall to later picks (Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, etc). When replacing a legend, it might be good to have three straws to draw from instead of two.

Best case is Osweiler showing his years on the bench were well-used, and he can take the reins for a team with this much talent without being the weak link.

[BroncoJoe]

I really want Oz to be a good quarterback. Fingers crossed on that. I'm curious about what we'll do in the draft at QB. We have Siemian (who I like) but this might shape up as a weird draft where pretty decent QB prospects fall to later picks (Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, etc). When replacing a legend, it might be good to have three straws to draw from instead of two.

Best case is Osweiler showing his years on the bench were well-used, and he can take the reins for a team with this much talent without being the weak link.

I just can't believe he'll be worse than our current weakest link, and I think that was somewhat proven yesterday.

[tripp]

I really want Oz to be a good quarterback. Fingers crossed on that. I'm curious about what we'll do in the draft at QB. We have Siemian (who I like) but this might shape up as a weird draft where pretty decent QB prospects fall to later picks (Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, etc). When replacing a legend, it might be good to have three straws to draw from instead of two.

Best case is Osweiler showing his years on the bench were well-used, and he can take the reins for a team with this much talent without being the weak link.

Always been a fan of taking a QB in each draft. Doesn't have to be the first 3 picks or so, but even in the 6th or 7th round is fine by me. I think it's always worth taking a shot at a QB.

[Buff]

Aside from him looking a little bit slow and lumbering - my biggest concern is that I think he might be legitimately dumb. We're down by 22 points yesterday, it's 4th and 4, and he comes over to the sideline screaming to the coaches about how we should "******* go for it!" Like - no shit, kid, try to get ahold of yourself as we were gonna go for it regardless of your emotional outburst.

I mean, he's got a misspelled biceps tattoo.

He reminded me a lot of Colin Kaepernick, right down to his cadence and taking on LBs while scrambling, without the top end speed obviously - I just worry that maybe he's a little clueless. Not super excited to see him play if I'm honest.

[tripp]

Aside from him looking a little bit slow and lumbering - my biggest concern is that I think he might be legitimately dumb. We're down by 22 points yesterday, it's 4th and 4, and he comes over to the sideline screaming to the coaches about how we should "******* go for it!" Like - no shit, kid, try to get ahold of yourself as we were gonna go for it regardless of your emotional outburst.

I mean, he's got a misspelled biceps tattoo.

He reminded me a lot of Colin Kaepernick, right down to his cadence and taking on LBs while scrambling, without the top end speed obviously - I just worry that maybe he's a little clueless. Not super excited to see him play if I'm honest.

Lol he did look funny running. Reminded a bit like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning when he ran. This is going to be really interesting seeing next week if he does indeed start.

When you talk about his emotional outbursts, the one thing comes to mind was last year when we played Oakland. We were up by a considerable amount, and Brock thought he was coming in, and Peyton ran onto the field and you saw Brock throw his arms up in the air frustrated. I didn't see any of his outbursts yesterday, but I could see it. He just needs to cool it.

[BroncoJoe]

Yeah - heaven forbid a QB show any emotion.

:tsk:

[Krugan]

Good topic, i think its almost a no brainer who "the better fit" is.

The better Qb is a no brainer too.

Sadly im not sure either will succeed beyond what we have seen with this line. As far as snaps under center, it will be alot easier for brock, if they are going to run Kubiaks offense and not this hybrid thing we have been seeing. But then the oline will have to switch to that play style and the circle will continue...

[Buff]

Yeah - heaven forbid a QB show any emotion.

:tsk:

That's not the point. The point is that his emotion was unwarranted given the situation. It actually showed a lack of awareness from a kid seeing his first real action. I'm definitely nitpicking - but I guess I just am surprised at myself at how unexcited I am to watch him play given how big of a critic of Manning I've been.

[Mike]

I don't think his "emotions" are a problem. He is young and inexperienced, so I can't fault it.

Things to watch from him after yesterday are holding on to the ball a bit long and trying to take on LBs. Others having to do with inexperience is clock management, ability to read the defense and audible could be problems. Like I said, there will be bumps and bruises. Manning's intelligence will be hard to replace so it will be interesting.

[TimHippo]

Lol he did look funny running. Reminded a bit like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning when he ran. This is going to be really interesting seeing next week if he does indeed start.

When you talk about his emotional outbursts, the one thing comes to mind was last year when we played Oakland. We were up by a considerable amount, and Brock thought he was coming in, and Peyton ran onto the field and you saw Brock throw his arms up in the air frustrated. I didn't see any of his outbursts yesterday, but I could see it. He just needs to cool it.

He's a slow giant. 4.83 40 speed. Huge target to hit. He seems to awkwardly fall down for no reason but it might be because he is so tall he can't baseball slide to get on the ground quick enough to avoid hits.

At least we will see what he has this year. I still think next year we will bring in a Drew Brees or Matt Stafford and have a smooth transition from Peyton Manning. All you need is a guy with all the tools and a former #1 overall pick like a Carson Palmer. Look at what he is doing with Arizona and he basically cost nothing. (6th round pick)

[TimHippo]

That's not the point. The point is that his emotion was unwarranted given the situation. It actually showed a lack of awareness from a kid seeing his first real action. I'm definitely nitpicking - but I guess I just am surprised at myself at how unexcited I am to watch him play given how big of a critic of Manning I've been.

There's a reason nobody wanted to draft this guy that high. By default, anyone is going to look better than old, maybe injured/maybe not Manning. I just don't think Elway and company think he is the answer but at least now they will give him a trial and hopefully can find out this season rather than waste all next season trying to see if Osweiler can play.

[Nomad]

It's lookin like we'll find out.

[gregbroncs]

He's a slow giant. 4.83 40 speed. Huge target to hit. He seems to awkwardly fall down for no reason but it might be because he is so tall he can't baseball slide to get on the ground quick enough to avoid hits.

At least we will see what he has this year. I still think next year we will bring in a Drew Brees or Matt Stafford and have a smooth transition from Peyton Manning. All you need is a guy with all the tools and a former #1 overall pick like a Carson Palmer. Look at what he is doing with Arizona and he basically cost nothing. (6th round pick)What is your deal with Stafford? He's an average NFL QB at best.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Brock has always been an emotional guy. That's just his personality. I don't know if it has anything to do with situational awareness.

[Buff]

I don't think his "emotions" are a problem. He is young and inexperienced, so I can't fault it.

Things to watch from him after yesterday are holding on to the ball a bit long and trying to take on LBs. Others having to do with inexperience is clock management, ability to read the defense and audible could be problems. Like I said, there will be bumps and bruises. Manning's intelligence will be hard to replace so it will be interesting.


Brock has always been an emotional guy. That's just his personality. I don't know if it has anything to do with situational awareness.

Again - it's not the emotions that bother me. It's that we were very obviously gonna go for it at that stage of the game, then here comes this kid screaming at Kubiak and Dennison trying to show how fiery he is. It's fine - classic over-exuberance from a young employee, no big deal. It just didn't instill a ton of confidence in me. I'd rather have my QB be the coolest guy in the room at that point. Same goes for him taking a couple of unnecessary hits and losing his pocket awareness - all mistakes you'd expect out of an inexperienced QB... Not saying he can't overcome, just saying it didn't get me excited about ushering in the Osweiler era.

[BroncoJoe]

There's a reason nobody wanted to draft this guy that high. By default, anyone is going to look better than old, maybe injured/maybe not Manning. I just don't think Elway and company think he is the answer but at least now they will give him a trial and hopefully can find out this season rather than waste all next season trying to see if Osweiler can play.

What exactly makes you think that?

[TimHippo]

What is your deal with Stafford? He's an average NFL QB at best.

Pro Bowl QB. #1 Overall Pick. In the right environment he can thrive like Carson Palmer is now because he has all the tools physically and mentally (in terms of understanding the game, training) and the experience.

You have to be realistic about the Broncos. Broncos are too good to get a top 5 overall pick. They will likely always be drafting in low teens to twenties under elway. So you aren't going to get a Andrew Luck through the draft. Your best bet is to get an established veteran who wants to win (like Peyton Manning or Drew Brees) or a five star guy who has been in football organizational purgatory (like Carson Palmer or Matt Stafford).

[Nomad]

Geez....give the kid a chance. It sounds like the same whining about McManus last year, and now fans are kissing his ass.

[Northman]

That's not the point. The point is that his emotion was unwarranted given the situation. It actually showed a lack of awareness from a kid seeing his first real action. I'm definitely nitpicking - but I guess I just am surprised at myself at how unexcited I am to watch him play given how big of a critic of Manning I've been.

Weirdly enough im super excited to see what he can do. Ive been very unimpressed with Manning for a while so anything right now would be fun for me as a fan.

[TimHippo]

What exactly makes you think that?

No "Buzz" on Osweiler around the league and from the experts. Elway hasn't extended his contract. If he were really this diamond in the rough they would have resigned him long term. They've seen him in practice for 4 years, they know what they have in him.

[MOtorboat]

#hypenotbuzz

[TimHippo]

Weirdly enough im super excited to see what he can do. Ive been very unimpressed with Manning for a while so anything right now would be fun for me as a fan.

People are excited because they hate Manning's play right now (and rightfully so) more than what the other QB has to offer.

It's that famous John Madden quote of when a team has a QB controversy, two QBs, what is really happening is the team has no QBs.

[MOtorboat]

I don't think there's any doubt Osweiler is better for the system Kubiak ran in the 90s, and appears to want to run now. I don't even really think it's much of a debate at this point.

[TimHippo]

I don't think there's any doubt Osweiler is better for the system Kubiak ran in the 90s, and appears to want to run now. I don't even really think it's much of a debate at this point.

That really says nothing though because Manning can hardly move and can only throw two yards down field. You could go out there behind center and be more effective than Manning.

[TimHippo]

#hypenotbuzz

#WeAreAllWitnessYashi

[chazoe60]

There is no buzz about the poster known as TimHippo.

[MOtorboat]

That really says nothing though because Manning can hardly move and can only throw two yards down field. You could go out there behind center and be more effective than Manning.

That's kind of the point, which is why I implied the blatant obvious nature of the situation.

[TimHippo]

There is no buzz about the poster known as TimHippo.

Chazo!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280690-179CBE1F000005DC-472_310x595.jpg

[DenBronx]

I believe Oz is the better fit for this offense.

But it is concerning that he's been here 4 years and we haven't resigned him. Either he lights it up and we overpay or yes, the Broncos aren't that impressed based on what they have seen from him in preseason and practices. I have a gut feeling it's the latter. That might change soon so we'll see next week.

[TimHippo]

I believe Oz is the better fit for this offense.

But it is concerning that he's been here 4 years and we haven't resigned him. Either he lights it up and we overpay or yes, the Broncos aren't that impressed based on what they have seen from him in preseason and practices. I have a gut feeling it's the latter. That might change soon so we'll see next week.

Let me ask you this though. Would you rather have Drew Brees next year or Osweiler?

[TimHippo]

I believe Oz is the better fit for this offense.

But it is concerning that he's been here 4 years and we haven't resigned him. Either he lights it up and we overpay or yes, the Broncos aren't that impressed based on what they have seen from him in preseason and practices. I have a gut feeling it's the latter. That might change soon so we'll see next week.

And that can be problematic too. Look at the low round backups who lit it up and then were overpaid based off a couple games (Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, etc, etc).

[MOtorboat]

Let me ask you this though. Would you rather have Drew Brees next year or Osweiler?

Is this fantasy football?

Because I'll take Aaron Rodgers over Osweiler next year.

:rolleyes:

[TimHippo]

Is this fantasy football?

Because I'll take Aaron Rodgers over Osweiler next year.

:rolleyes:

Rodgers is locked up till 2019. You really want to wait that long?

[BroncoJoe]

No "Buzz" on Osweiler around the league and from the experts. Elway hasn't extended his contract. If he were really this diamond in the rough they would have resigned him long term. They've seen him in practice for 4 years, they know what they have in him.

Name one backup QB with "buzz".

Good grief. If that's your best reasoning, you don't have a reason.

[TimHippo]

Name one backup QB with "buzz".

Good grief. If that's your best reasoning, you don't have a reason.

Aaron Rodgers had "Buzz".
Steve Young when he was backing up Montana.
Tom Brady when he was backing up Bledsoe.

Young and Rodgers in particular had "Buzz" for years.

[Nomad]

Name one backup QB with "buzz".

Good grief. If that's your best reasoning, you don't have a reason.

I like Luke McCown's backup generator commercial.

[BroncoJoe]

Aaron Rodgers had "Buzz".
Steve Young when he was backing up Montana.
Tom Brady when he was backing up Bledsoe.

Young and Rodgers in particular had "Buzz" for years.

Really? Seriously?

People got tired of Favre, his retirement flirtation every year and his play went downhill - that's when the "buzz" started with Rogers. Sound familiar?
You might have a point with Young, but you perhaps don't remember that Young was either traded or released (don't remember) by the Bucs - you know, the team that drafted him?

Buzz about Brady? No one knew who the F he was until Bledsoe got hurt.

Wow.

[Nomad]

Chazo!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280690-179CBE1F000005DC-472_310x595.jpg


Caption this photo with the Snoop Dog song "The Next Episode" :D

[SR]

Chazo!

Get new jokes

[Yashahla17]

Yeah - heaven forbid a QB show any emotion.

:tsk:

Damn near every qb has shown emotions. This offense needs some damn life. If os wants to show some emotion and then go and deliver on a sweet scramble for a touchdown throw then im with it. At least he delivered and gave it his all to make something happen instead of aborting with a big ass DL coming at him unblocked with another on the other side. He evaded both and scored.

[SR]

And FFS people, use re-signed right. You keep typing "resigned" and it's a totally different word with different meaning entirely.

[Yashahla17]

That's not the point. The point is that his emotion was unwarranted given the situation. It actually showed a lack of awareness from a kid seeing his first real action. I'm definitely nitpicking - but I guess I just am surprised at myself at how unexcited I am to watch him play given how big of a critic of Manning I've been.

From a KId seeing his FIRST ACTION. lol that says it all. You must have a soft spot for the old man somewhere inside. As sad as it is to see manning end his career in this fashion it was bound to happen. Nobody can overcome playing a contact sport with there body breaking down.

[MOtorboat]

Matt Schaub and Matt Flynn had "buzz" too.

Frankly, it's a really stupid, unquantifiable measurable that has no bearing on the play on the field.

[TimHippo]

Matt Schaub and Matt Flynn had "buzz" too.

Frankly, it's a really stupid, unquantifiable measurable that has no bearing on the play on the field.

No, that was "hype" based off one game. Only gullible GM's would fall for that.

[MOtorboat]

Herp.

[Yashahla17]

This guy really thinks his buzz shit is what determines if a player has it. Brady had zero buzz. Or,hype or anything. Its part of what made his story so great. Dude was a thin nobody picked in round six. Had no hype nor buzz if there any different...Got his opportunity and killed the league. Hippo your lying man. Brady had zero hype and zero buzz.

[tripp]

Geez....give the kid a chance. It sounds like the same whining about McManus last year, and now fans are kissing his ass.

Lol well McManus was pretty awful last year, so awful we had to bring in another kicker.

[Nomad]

Lol well McManus was pretty awful last year, so awful we had to bring in another kicker.

You guys never gave him a chance to adjust and develop. If it was up to many on the board here, he'd be deep sixed. He had all the potential and tools, just needed time.

[tripp]

You guys never gave him a chance to adjust and develop. If it was up to many on the board here, he'd be deep sixed. He had all the potential and tools, just needed time.

Hahaha alright, so easy to say that now. But I will admit I was one of the folks here hoping he got the axe. Happy for him to prove me wrong.

[Nomad]

Hahaha alright, so easy to say that now. But I will admit I was one of the folks here hoping he got the axe. Happy for him to prove me wrong.

I know you were. It's not easy to say, because I was one of the biggest proponents of his.

[GEM]

Did you guys see McManus tweet in response to someone that posted how pissed they were that he got them 0 fantasy points?

-You're welcome.


:laugh:

[Yashahla17]

People can put up with 17 games,of manning stinking it up, but being mega critical of brock after a half of football and leading our only two scoring drives lol. Give brock his time to,adjust and develop being the man for the first time as a pro!

[TimHippo]

This guy really thinks his buzz shit is what determines if a player has it. Brady had zero buzz. Or,hype or anything. Its part of what made his story so great. Dude was a thin nobody picked in round six. Had no hype nor buzz if there any different...Got his opportunity and killed the league. Hippo your lying man. Brady had zero hype and zero buzz.

It's going down, I'm yelling Yashi!
You better move, you better dance . . . New York, LA, Miami . . .

[MOtorboat]

People can put up with 17 games,of manning stinking it up, but being mega critical of brock after a half of football and leading our only two scoring drives lol. Give brock his time to,adjust and develop being the man for the first time as a pro!

Lol.

[Yashahla17]

It's going down, I'm yelling Yashi!
You better move, you better dance . . . New York, LA, Miami . . .

Lol you're beyond dry dude.

[SR]

Did you guys see McManus tweet in response to someone that posted how pissed they were that he got them 0 fantasy points? -You're welcome. :laugh:

I got a point from him ;)

[Northman]

Matt Schaub and Matt Flynn had "buzz" too.

Frankly, it's a really stupid, unquantifiable measurable that has no bearing on the play on the field.

Yea, i was going to say Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac had buzz too but how did that work out for them? Stupid argument as you said.

[Dreadnought]

Well, lets see what we've got in Osweiler. We have had the luxury of developing a QB the right way, i.e. sitting him on the bench for a few years and letting him watch. Now, lets see what he has absorbed in that time. He might turn out to be pretty good.


Or, we could push the panic button, and sign an old guy at the end of his run, or, even worse, waste a first round pick on some kid in the draft this Spring. Extra stupid points if he played out of a spread formation in College. Or was a "running QB." Or played at USC.

That's the way organizations like the Browns do business

[tripp]

Well, lets see what we've got in Osweiler. We have had the luxury of developing a QB the right way, i.e. sitting him on the bench for a few years and letting him watch. Now, lets see what he has absorbed in that time. He might turn out to be pretty good.


Or, we could push the panic button, and sign an old guy at the end of his run, or, even worse, waste a first round pick on some kid in the draft this Spring. Extra stupid points if he played out of a spread formation in College. Or was a "running QB." Or played at USC.

That's the way organizations like the Browns do business

At the very least I think Brock will be just as good as Tyrod Taylor. Not taking anything away from Taylor, I just think he's performing as well as he can given his experience in the NFL as a Qb.

[Mike]

Well, lets see what we've got in Osweiler. We have had the luxury of developing a QB the right way, i.e. sitting him on the bench for a few years and letting him watch. Now, lets see what he has absorbed in that time. He might turn out to be pretty good.


Or, we could push the panic button, and sign an old guy at the end of his run, or, even worse, waste a first round pick on some kid in the draft this Spring. Extra stupid points if he played out of a spread formation in College. Or was a "running QB." Or played at USC.

That's the way organizations like the Browns do business

I like Siemian better than Brock to be honest, but I can see them picking up one of the available vet QBs in the offseason. I am glad we get a chance to see what Brock has before having to deal with his contract.

[BroncoJoe]

Well, lets see what we've got in Osweiler. We have had the luxury of developing a QB the right way, i.e. sitting him on the bench for a few years and letting him watch. Now, lets see what he has absorbed in that time. He might turn out to be pretty good.


Or, we could push the panic button, and sign an old guy at the end of his run, or, even worse, waste a first round pick on some kid in the draft this Spring. Extra stupid points if he played out of a spread formation in College. Or was a "running QB." Or played at USC.

That's the way organizations like the Browns do business

I think it's Brock or bust. Like Von Doom coined - lets Brock and Roll!!!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Von Miller has had a lot of buzz in the past too.

[Yashahla17]

I like Siemian better than Brock to be honest, but I can see them picking up one of the available vet QBs in the offseason. I am glad we get a chance to see what Brock has before having to deal with his contract.

What do you like about trevor?

[NightTerror218]

I laugh at some of the comments about him and his play sunday.

It was like his 3rd game of real non preseason snaps. Raiders game he was probably told he was going in and Manning just ran on field. Because everyone knows how competitive Manning is and does not like to miss any snaps in any game.

He is young and inexperienced. He turns 25 this week. He will need time to mature and not make dumb choices like taking on a LB. But then again look at it from his point to of view, he is a back up and does not know how many snaps he will get. He is going to take chances and try to make plays. He wanted to get the extra yards and make a play.

[Yashahla17]

I laugh at some of the comments about him and his play sunday.

It was like his 3rd game of real non preseason snaps. Raiders game he was probably told he was going in and Manning just ran on field. Because everyone knows how competitive Manning is and does not like to miss any snaps in any game.

He is young and inexperienced. He turns 25 this week. He will need time to mature and not make dumb choices like taking on a LB. But then again look at it from his point to of view, he is a back up and does not know how many snaps he will get. He is going to take chances and try to make plays. He wanted to get the extra yards and make a play.

If manning did that when brock was told he was going in then thats pretty foul.

[LawDog]

Did Tebow have buzz? I don't remember. Who did he replace, Kyle someone-or-other? For that matter, did Cutler have buzz before replacing Jake? Also, what exactly is "buzz" anyway?

Sincerely,
Confused in California

[Yashahla17]

Buzz is just buzz.

[CrazyHorse]

He's definitely more mobile and has a stronger arm. I think he could be a better version of Jake Plummer.

[SR]

He's definitely more mobile and has a stronger arm. I think he could be a better version of Jake Plummer.

I'm not going to go that far yet. Jake was pretty good at some things that I don't think Brock will be just based on size alone.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm confused as to why his height automatically means he won't be as athletic, or he'll struggle. The average size of a basketball player is nearly 6'8", and many claim them to be the best athletes in the world. Brock could have went the basketball route, but chose football. From what I've read, he was a pretty good player.

[Northman]

Yea, im not sure why height is a problem for him. If anything, it gives him a pretty good advantage.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm confused as to why his height automatically means he won't be as athletic, or he'll struggle. The average size of a basketball player is nearly 6'8", and many claim them to be the best athletes in the world. Brock could have went the basketball route, but chose football. From what I've read, he was a pretty good player.

He had a scholarship offer from Gonzaga, which happens to be a perennial top 10 team. He absolutely is a good athlete.

[TimHippo]

I'm confused as to why his height automatically means he won't be as athletic, or he'll struggle. The average size of a basketball player is nearly 6'8", and many claim them to be the best athletes in the world. Brock could have went the basketball route, but chose football. From what I've read, he was a pretty good player.

There are some slow plodders in basketball. Gonzaga itself is usually considered one of the less athletic teams than their competition. Sabonis is athletic but the usual player like Santangelo, Morrison, etc, etc are subpar athletes and play below the rim. osweiler appears to fall in that latter category which is why he never played basketball at the college level. He could have easily played both. Guys like tony Gonzales, Julius peppers, sedge roam-Jenkins, even Donovan mcnabb for a year played both sports in the NCAA.

The i was a basketball player therefore I am a superior athlete mantra is what he is claiming but the evidence seems to refute those claims. I don't think he's a horrible athele at the NFL level but neither is he a good athlete. He's probably about average. His 40 time 4.8 isn't very good and he's kind of a slow giant. If he can add some weight to his frame then he can be a rothelesveruger type where people just bounce off of him because of his size is probably his ideal situation. Then he can stay in the pockets or rumble for a couple yards but I don't see him ever being s home run threat with his legs or being agile enough to be an elusive scrambler like elway or Tarkentin.

[Ravage!!!]

I remember there beign an article and ESPN show on Flacco, and it was brought up during that segment how tall QBs hve had a hard time in the NFL. Ther stats show that guys 6'8" don't do well. Flacco went to a training school in his offseason to specifically work on the mobility problems that tall QBs have, I give him big Kudos for taking those steps. It helped him a lot (although I really don't think he's a very good QB). So "statisically" tall QBs do poorly, but that isn't exactly something that's written in stone.

Statistically, shorter RBs do better, but then you have some great tall RBs as well. STATISTICALLY, shorter QBs aren't made for the NFL, but Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are doing ok.

Brock seems to be a prety mobile QB and a pretty good athlete. There is no doubt he's a good athlete, actually. Hell, the best QBs in the NFL aren't all necessarily "great athletes " (at least as far as how some are using that word in this thread, I personlly think they all are).

I mean, we won't see Brady being a great basketball or baseball player and we wouldn't see Manning do well on the hard courts. These guys wouldnt' be in the NFL if they couldn't throw the ball, so the NFL is more about the pre-snap read than anything else. Reading where the ball SHOULD go, and then taking it from there, is 90% of being a good/great QB.

RIght now, I'm pretty excited to see the Os era begin.

[Rick]

I could care less if he has a 4.4, I want a guy who stands in the pocket and is capable of a rollout. Brock can do this.

He also needs the speed to OCCASIONALLY run if no one is open or he needs to escape, he did this in the KC game well enough.

[Ravage!!!]

He's probably about average. His 40 time 4.8 isn't very good and he's kind of a slow giant. If he can add some weight to his frame then he can be a rothelesveruger type where people just bounce off of him because of his size is probably his ideal situation. Then he can stay in the pockets or rumble for a couple yards but I don't see him ever being s home run threat with his legs or being agile enough to be an elusive scrambler like elway or Tarkentin.

Why on earth would you use the 40 yrd dash for a QB, anyway? Who cares? I don't think I want him to put on enough weight to be a Roth. Roth is roth, but Oz absolutely does not need to put on more weight. He weighs 240 lbs. How big do you think the guy needs to be, ESPECIALLY if you are already trying to use 40 yrd dash times as a point of emphasis.

[Northman]

He also needs the speed to OCCASIONALLY run if no one is open or he needs to escape, he did this in the KC game well enough.

Or, as Brock showed Sunday the ability to shrug off a defender if necessary to keep a play alive.

[TimHippo]

Why on earth would you use the 40 yrd dash for a QB, anyway? Who cares? I don't think I want him to put on enough weight to be a Roth. Roth is roth, but Oz absolutely does not need to put on more weight. He weighs 240 lbs. How big do you think the guy needs to be, ESPECIALLY if you are already trying to use 40 yrd dash times as a point of emphasis.

Rothlesberuger is 6-5 240 lbs. (honestly he seems fatter than that but that's what he's listed at. Belicheck is a huge skeptic of his weight) So an equivalent 6-8 guy would probably be in the 260-270 lbs range.

Conversely a 6-8 240 guy would be about 6-2 190 lbs which would be frail.

I think the 275 lbs range is ideal for Brock. That basically puts him at defensive end size and would make it very hard for linebackes and ends to take him down. Then people will just bounce off him and he will have time to move up in the pocket or sidestep.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Rothlesberuger is 6-5 240 lbs. (honestly he seems fatter than that but that's what he's listed at. Belicheck is a huge skeptic of his weight) So an equivalent 6-8 guy would probably be in the 260-270 lbs range.

Conversely a 6-8 240 guy would be about 6-2 190 lbs which would be frail.

I think the 275 lbs range is ideal for Brock. That basically puts him at defensive end size and would make it very hard for linebackes and ends to take him down. Then people will just bounce off him and he will have time to move up in the pocket or sidestep.

Just stop...

[TimHippo]

Just stop...

No. You stop.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

No. You stop.

But Im not the one making ridiculous assertions. :D

[TimHippo]

But Im not the one making ridiculous assertions. :D

Ah, resorting to personal attacks when you can't comment on the discussions. I see.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Ah, resorting to personal attacks when you can't comment on the discussions. I see.

Personal attack? Don't be so sensitive. I didn't say you were a ridiculous assertion. I said you made a ridiculous assertion.

Do you see how what you said was ridiculous, but not you personally?

You're welcome!

[TimHippo]

Personal attack? Don't be so sensitive. I didn't say you were a ridiculous assertion. I said you made a ridiculous assertion.

Do you see how what you said was ridiculous, but not you personally?

You're welcome!

That's a passive aggressive personal attack. It's still attacking the poster.

I gave you reasons why gonzaga and osweiler are not considered a very athletic team in basketball and you chose to ignore it and attack the poster. If you want to behave you should address the discussion.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

That's a passive aggressive personal attack. It's still attacking the poster.

I gave you reasons why gonzaga and osweiler are not considered a very athletic team in basketball and you chose to ignore it and attack the poster. If you want to behave you should address the discussion.

I'm sorry I offended you dude. Don't take me so seriously.

I think you're cherry picking to some extent. Gonzaga has very good athletes. Osweiler might not have 4.4 speed and a 40 inch vertical, but to be offered a scholarship by Gonzaga to play basketball means he has to be a coordinated and skilled athlete.

[Buff]

That's a passive aggressive personal attack. It's still attacking the poster.

I gave you reasons why gonzaga and osweiler are not considered a very athletic team in basketball and you chose to ignore it and attack the poster. If you want to behave you should address the discussion.

Pro tip: sink or swim on the merits of your own posts here. All of that personal attack crying is for that other board that we all fled many years ago to do moderator oppression. We don't need adult hall monitors gauging whether our posts are polite enough or not.

[NightTrainLayne]

A 275 pound QB? Jeez.

I think the Raiders tried that once.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

A 275 pound QB? Jeez.

I think the Raiders tried that once.

:laugh:


Well, according to Timbo's sliding weight scale that would put Russel's ideal weight at 6'6" at roughly 260.

[TimHippo]

A 275 pound QB? Jeez.

I think the Raiders tried that once.

Jamarcus Russell was only 6-6 though. 275 is actually fat for a QB who is 6-6 unless he's on roids.

6-8 275 lbs is not that bad. Those are still the meaureables of a fast defensive lineman if they were that tall.
You can still retain your athleticism as long as it's not pure body fat.

[BroncoJoe]

A 275 pound QB? Jeez.

I think the Raiders tried that once.

One of the more ridiculous statements I've read re: Oz.

[NightTrainLayne]

:laugh:


Well, according to Timbo's sliding weight scale that would put Russel's ideal weight at 6'6" at roughly 260.


Jamarcus Russell was only 6-6 though. 275 is actually fat for a QB who is 6-6 unless he's on roids.

6-8 275 lbs is not that bad. Those are still the meaureables of a fast defensive lineman if they were that tall.
You can still retain your athleticism as long as it's not pure body fat.

OMG. This is too funny. Al jokingly makes the same statement moments before Hippo says virtually the same thing seriously.

I'm sorry Tim, but thanks for the good laugh. Maybe you're right, and I'm just being a jerk. :)

[TimHippo]

OMG. This is too funny. Al jokingly makes the same statement moments before Hippo says virtually the same thing seriously.

I'm sorry Tim, but thanks for the good laugh. Maybe you're right, and I'm just being a jerk. :)

Al Wilson is becoming a disciple of mine and learning the lessons well. Soon he will be part of our coaching tree.

[SR]

Ah, resorting to personal attacks when you can't comment on the discussions. I see.

Thy was FAR from a personal attack.

[SR]

That's a passive aggressive personal attack. It's still attacking the poster. I gave you reasons why gonzaga and osweiler are not considered a very athletic team in basketball and you chose to ignore it and attack the poster. If you want to behave you should address the discussion.

You're a little mixed up here Tim. I can say that the things you say are ridiculous all day long. I'm not saying anything about YOU personally. I'm sure you've told people before that they're speaking nonsense.

[SR]

Jamarcus Russell was only 6-6 though. 275 is actually fat for a QB who is 6-6 unless he's on roids. 6-8 275 lbs is not that bad. Those are still the meaureables of a fast defensive lineman if they were that tall. You can still retain your athleticism as long as it's not pure body fat.

A 6'6", 275 quarterback is a terrible idea.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

A 6'6", 275 quarterback is a terrible idea.

Stop with the personal attacks.

[MOtorboat]

So, wait.

The "slow" quarterback who runs a 4.8 needs to gain weight to guarantee he's a better quarterback?

So...your requirements completely contradict each other? LOL

[BroncoJoe]

So, wait.

The "slow" quarterback who runs a 4.8 needs to gain weight to guarantee he's a better quarterback?

So...your requirements completely contradict each other? LOL

That extra weight would definitely help him in the cone drill too.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He's gonna need that weight so he can bench 225 40 times.

[Timmy!]

:lol:

Don't worry guys, I will get a hold of my buddy Cody (Brocks 2nd cousin). If Brock is back in Montana this offseason I will challenge him to a double-bacon cheeseburger eating contest to help him get go that 275. The sacrifices I make for this team. You're welcome.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Epiphany :

Rob Gronkowski is the ideal NFL qb.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm still trying to figure out how his opinion that Gonzaga isn't an athletic basketball team means its a fact that Os isn't athletic??? :whoknows:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm still trying to figure out how his opinion that Gonzaga isn't an athletic basketball team means its a fact that Os isn't athletic??? :whoknows:

Apparently you're not athletic if you can't run and jump like Russell Westbrook.

[Ravage!!!]

who's that? Didn't he play RB for the Washington Redskins?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

who's that? Didn't he play RB for the Washington Redskins?

Point gaurd for the OKC Thunder

[Ravage!!!]

Point gaurd for the OKC Thunder

Yeah.. I was being a bit facetious

[Joel]

I frankly think talk of who fits Kubiaks system misses that systems point: EVERY STARTING QB KUBIAK'S EVER HAD WENT TO A PRO BOWL. Granted, two (i.e. Young and Elway) were HoFers in their own right, but three (i.e. Brian Griese, Plummer and Schaub) will never get into the HoF unless they buy a ticket, and never got to a Pro Bowl without Kubiak. Likewise, Young and Elway scrambled, but Griese and Schaub were pocket-passing statues, and Plummers problem was that he COULDN'T throw from the pocket.

It's easy to get fooled into thinking the system's SO good it obviates player talent: It can make every 6th round or UDFA RB the next Terrell Davis; a combined 4 Pro Bowl seasons from Plummer, Griese and Schaub make up for their two dozen mediocre-to-awful seasons; weak tiny linemen can be elite if smart and athletic. I'm crossing my fingers that Kubiak's learned the folly of believing too much of his own hype, that the point of a good system's not making bad players decent, but various kinds of good players great.

Still and so, that point—to a great extent, that of coaching itself—is not NEEDING any narrowly defined (i.e. rare) set of abilities to succeed. That's why Shula could get to SBs riding HoF passers like Unitas and Marino OR punishing HoF RBs like Csonka offset with shifty speedsters like Kiick and Alfred Morris' uncle, allowing Grieses dad to reach the HoF by being merely good enough on the rare occasions he was needed. Obviously I don't want Kubiak to Schaub himself out of another job, but don't think he will either.

Kubiaks record suggests he'd prefer a healthy immobile Manning to a scrambling scattershot Plummer, if only because he prefers relying on solid blocking and running most of the time anyway: The QB must be able to win games, but can do so any of many ways; the line carries the team, both running and passing.

For the record, I think Stafford could be a decent Plan B if the Lions don't want him—and haven't ruined him. Stafford's young enough to have a decade or so of decent play left in him, and Detroit's not an environment where anyone has much chance to succeed (how many times did Barry Sanders reach the playoffs? Answer: About as many as Calvin Johnson.) But Stafford's also old enough to have learned some awful Plummeresque habits on his awful team and, again, I don't want Kubiak to Schaub himself out of another job.

[BroncoJoe]

If Kubiak is so good, Brock will be fine.

Man, you go off on some strange f'ing tangents. Can you ever keep your mind on a single topic without throwing in all kinds of garbage information?

[NightTerror218]

Rothlesberuger is 6-5 240 lbs. (honestly he seems fatter than that but that's what he's listed at. Belicheck is a huge skeptic of his weight) So an equivalent 6-8 guy would probably be in the 260-270 lbs range.

Conversely a 6-8 240 guy would be about 6-2 190 lbs which would be frail.

I think the 275 lbs range is ideal for Brock. That basically puts him at defensive end size and would make it very hard for linebackes and ends to take him down. Then people will just bounce off him and he will have time to move up in the pocket or sidestep.

Your drunk, stop typing.

[slim]

275?

Good Lord.

[Yashahla17]

Dude said a 275 pound quarterback. Wow

[Dreadnought]

If Kubiak is so good, Brock will be fine.

Man, you go off on some strange f'ing tangents. Can you ever keep your mind on a single topic without throwing in all kinds of garbage information?

Long-winded Tangents? Joel? Say it ain't so!

That said, I agree with a lot of that post. It was pretty sound, and I agree with 90% of what he said there

[Rick]

275? Why stop there? Make it 300 and let him hike himself the ball and block for himself as well.

[Yashahla17]

Hippo has lost all credibility.

[Canmore]

Hippo has lost all credibility.

WOW!!! Yashi and credibility. Good job Yashi you spelled credibility right.

[Joel]

If Kubiak is so good, Brock will be fine.
That doesn't follow: Great coaching can make an awful QB decent (for a few years, until everyone has tape of the gimmicks hiding his flaws) but never great. Griese and Plummer both posted a Pro Bowl season under Kubiak, but ONLY one, Schaub only had TWO, and when the wheels came off the bus it went off a cliff each time.


Man, you go off on some strange f'ing tangents. Can you ever keep your mind on a single topic without throwing in all kinds of garbage information?
It wasn't a tangent: My whole argument was that if BROCK'S so good it doesn't matter which particular WAYS he's good; the system will maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses because that—not bootlegs, sweeps nor any of its other tools—is what it's DESIGNED to do. My sole question is whether getting bounced out of Houston taught Kubiak the hard lesson that even the best system can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, be it a porky linemans or squealing QBs.

The system's sound and versatile enough to survive without Manning, Oz or Clady, and I think Schaub finally confronted Kubiak with the hubris he may (or may not) have missed with Griese and Plummer. But there's such a thing as linemen who are athletic AND strong: Just not among OTs left at the 50th overall pick, nor guards hanging around till the 100th. There are NO tackles like that at the END of the SECOND round (i.e. where we got Sambrailo) nor guards like that at the end of the FOURTH (i.e. where we got Garcia.)

We've seen Kubiak must do more than bring back his old retreads and grab a couple midround picks to keep Manning, Oz or whomever upright a full season, or turn Anderson, Hillman or whomever into a 1000 yd rusher. Maybe Manning's final SB run immediately becoming a slow agonizing collapse into ignominy will help with THAT lesson. I love Kubiak to death, but sometimes worry all that talk a decade ago about how ANYONE can run for 1000 yds in Denver may have gone to his head. Plummer=/=Elway; Tater=/=Davis.

[Joel]

WOW!!! Yashi and credibility. Good job Yashi you spelled credibility right.
We need a Teboi vs. Ozworship cage match. :tongue:

[chazoe60]

Pro tip: sink or swim on the merits of your own posts here. All of that personal attack crying is for that other board that we all fled many years ago to do moderator oppression. We don't need adult hall monitors gauging whether our posts are polite enough or not.

I love doing moderator oppression.

[Ravage!!!]

Hippo has lost all credibility.

Are you familiar with the word "irony?"

[Ravage!!!]

We dont know if we have great coaching. We have great DC, that's for certain.

[Northman]

No worries guys, it turns out that the Broncos backup kicker is a personal QB trainer as well.

http://media.wtfunny.com/content/pictures/1Mt6lMYxyX.jpg

[Cugel]

That doesn't follow: Great coaching can make an awful QB decent (for a few years, until everyone has tape of the gimmicks hiding his flaws) but never great. Griese and Plummer both posted a Pro Bowl season under Kubiak, but ONLY one, Schaub only had TWO, and when the wheels came off the bus it went off a cliff each time.


It wasn't a tangent: My whole argument was that if BROCK'S so good it doesn't matter which particular WAYS he's good; the system will maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses because that—not bootlegs, sweeps nor any of its other tools—is what it's DESIGNED to do. My sole question is whether getting bounced out of Houston taught Kubiak the hard lesson that even the best system can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, be it a porky linemans or squealing QBs.

The system's sound and versatile enough to survive without Manning, Oz or Clady, and I think Schaub finally confronted Kubiak with the hubris he may (or may not) have missed with Griese and Plummer. But there's such a thing as linemen who are athletic AND strong: Just not among OTs left at the 50th overall pick, nor guards hanging around till the 100th. There are NO tackles like that at the END of the SECOND round (i.e. where we got Sambrailo) nor guards like that at the end of the FOURTH (i.e. where we got Garcia.)

We've seen Kubiak must do more than bring back his old retreads and grab a couple midround picks to keep Manning, Oz or whomever upright a full season, or turn Anderson, Hillman or whomever into a 1000 yd rusher. Maybe Manning's final SB run immediately becoming a slow agonizing collapse into ignominy will help with THAT lesson. I love Kubiak to death, but sometimes worry all that talk a decade ago about how ANYONE can run for 1000 yds in Denver may have gone to his head. Plummer=/=Elway; Tater=/=Davis.

I don't think any system can win you a Super Bowl though. Yes, it can help a marginal QB be effective, but when you get to the playoffs, talent is going to win in the end.

When Brady retires, it's going to suddenly be evident that Bill Belichick isn't such a genius when Jimmy Garapolo fails to win SBs, just as Mike Shanahan struggled without Elway.

So, in the short term, Brock will be helped by being in this system. Long term? That's going to depend on how well he adapts to what defensive coordinators will be throwing at him. Because from here on out, they are going to be trying to figure out what he doesn't do well and force him to do that.

[Cugel]

As for the demonstrated failures of the OL, that's a lot more on Elway than it was on Kubiak. For some reason, Elway concluded that they don't need Joe Thomas and weren't willing to give up what will probably be a mid 20's pick in 2017 (if they win 10-12 games like they should with this defense), and a pick somewhere in the late 50s in 2016.

To me that's incomprehensible.

When the epitaph is written on the 2015 season it might well be that the Broncos season went down the tubes the day Elway refused to do that trade, and that everything that happened after that point was just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic - after they hit the iceberg.

But, Elway didn't go out in FA and get some really GOOD OL to replace the ones who either couldn't do the job (Chris Clark, Orlando Franklin) or were simply gone (RT).

Instead they tried to patch the OL together once again with duct tape and re-treads, and it's been a total disaster that looks like it will doom the Broncos super bowl hopes.

[NightTerror218]

As for the demonstrated failures of the OL, that's a lot more on Elway than it was on Kubiak. For some reason, Elway concluded that they don't need Joe Thomas and weren't willing to give up what will probably be a mid 20's pick in 2017 (if they win 10-12 games like they should with this defense), and a pick somewhere in the late 50s in 2016.

To me that's incomprehensible.

When the epitaph is written on the 2015 season it might well be that the Broncos season went down the tubes the day Elway refused to do that trade, and that everything that happened after that point was just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic - after they hit the iceberg.

But, Elway didn't go out in FA and get some really GOOD OL to replace the ones who either couldn't do the job (Chris Clark, Orlando Franklin) or were simply gone (RT).

Instead they tried to patch the OL together once again with duct tape and re-treads, and it's been a total disaster that looks like it will doom the Broncos super bowl hopes.

You mean give up two firsts for Joe thomas, 2016 and 2017. In 2017 it could be a top 10 pick, you never know. And he would have to restructure because it would have blown up the cap and we would lose half our defense next season with Clady on books too.

Stick to court room if you are going to try and manipulate/convince people of your opinion.