Report: Manning has torn Ligament in Foot

[UnderArmour]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/666259055036362752
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/324726/report-peyton-has-torn-ligament-in-foot
Per Rotoworld:

The plantar fascia is a ligament which connects the heel to the toes. Manning had been dealing with plantar fasciitis, a strain of the ligament, but Schefter reports the injury has gotten worse. Coach Gary Kubiak said Peyton would remain the starter if healthy, but this report confirms he is clearly less than 100 percent. Manning's status will be updated throughout the week. Brock Osweiler should be added in two-quarterback formats.
Looks like Brock time on Sunday.

[NightTrainLayne]

If Manning has Plantar Fasciitis he needs to sit for several weeks.

[CrazyHorse]

If Manning has Plantar Fasciitis he needs to sit for several weeks.

That shit really hurts. I commend him for trying to play through such a painful injury but he didn't do us any favors. If we win 3 more games we make the playoffs. We can't risk him playing.

[DenBronx]

Pau Gasol missed 6 weeks with this injury.


Brock might be the starter for awhile.

[Bronco4ever]

It sounds like he has a partially torn plantar fascia, which is much more painful than a fully torn one. It's also on his right foot which makes it difficult to push off on his throws.

[Dzone]

If we can win with Oz, Manning needs to consider that his final game. Time to call it a career.

[G_Money]

So this is the part where Oz becomes our Brady, taking over for the immobile and injured pocket passer and leading the team to the Super Bowl, right?

I wish Manning had torn the whole thing. It would make it easier to play with, and he could have surgery after the season to fix it. As it is he's basically screwed for the next few weeks. But at least we got some lovely bootlegs outta the deal.

[MasterShake]

This is awful news for Manning and I feel bad for him, but he never should have pushed an injury like that. We have enough of a cushion still that I feel confident that Brock can keep the ship on course while he recovers. Elway missed 4 games and Bubby Brister did the same thing. We don't need him to be a hall of famer, we just need Brock to be good. I thought he showed great poise yesterday. I will take a fresh (or close to) Manning for the last part of the season/playoff run (unless Brock is playing out of his mind or something) and it could be a blessing in disguise. I don't want to remember Manning as a hobbled shell of his former self, he needs to shut down and get right for what is most likely his last playoff run.

[VonDoom]

This is awful news for Manning and I feel bad for him, but he never should have pushed an injury like that. We have enough of a cushion still that I feel confident that Brock can keep the ship on course while he recovers. Elway missed 4 games and Bubby Brister did the same thing. We don't need him to be a hall of famer, we just need Brock to be good. I thought he showed great poise yesterday. I will take a fresh (or close to) Manning for the last part of the season/playoff run (unless Brock is playing out of his mind or something) and it could be a blessing in disguise. I don't want to remember Manning as a hobbled shell of his former self, he needs to shut down and get right for what is most likely his last playoff run.

This will certainly be a fascinating stretch run for our season. There are differing opinions about how long it might take Manning to heal, probably depending on the severity of the tear. But Vic Lombardi basically said he had this issue last week and Schefter is saying that it "worsened" in this game. He shouldn't have played yesterday if he was already dealing with this. How he heals and how Brock plays will determine if he comes back this year at all.

[G_Money]

This is awful news for Manning and I feel bad for him, but he never should have pushed an injury like that. We have enough of a cushion still that I feel confident that Brock can keep the ship on course while he recovers. Elway missed 4 games and Bubby Brister did the same thing. We don't need him to be a hall of famer, we just need Brock to be good. I thought he showed great poise yesterday. I will take a fresh (or close to) Manning for the last part of the season/playoff run (unless Brock is playing out of his mind or something) and it could be a blessing in disguise. I don't want to remember Manning as a hobbled shell of his former self, he needs to shut down and get right for what is most likely his last playoff run.

Manning's gonna push it. That's what a coach and training staff are for - to make the necessary call. Remember though: this is the team that put Al Wilson back on the field with an injury that would end his career. The Broncos are known for being good to players in many regards, but taking it cautiously with injuries is not one of them.

Let Brock get some play and see what happens with Manning in the next few weeks. We'll see how many other tough calls we get to make before the playoffs get here.

[weazel]

I guess that explains the listless, floating passes. What about the accuracy problems or the throws directly in the chest of a defender with absolutely nobody else around? I commend him for trying but it wasn't the best thing for the team.

[SR]

If Manning has Plantar Fasciitis he needs to sit for several weeks.

If it's just regular plantar fasciitis, he should be ok with treatment. I'm no athlete, but I deal with it daily and as long as you stay ahead of it with NSAIDs and other methods of proactive treatment, it's not that bad. Now, if he has a torn or even partially torn ligament in his foot, that's a different story.

[NightTrainLayne]

If it's just regular plantar fasciitis, he should be ok with treatment. I'm no athlete, but I deal with it daily and as long as you stay ahead of it with NSAIDs and other methods of proactive treatment, it's not that bad. Now, if he has a torn or even partially torn ligament in his foot, that's a different story.

In rebuttal, Manning uses his legs to generate all the power on his throws since he's come back. He needs to be 100% from the waist down to be effective imo.

Lower body injuries that an athlete, or even a QB should "normally" be able to deal with, are major factors for Manning post neck surgeries.

[tomjonesrocks]

This is awful news for Manning and I feel bad for him, but he never should have pushed an injury like that. We have enough of a cushion still that I feel confident that Brock can keep the ship on course while he recovers. Elway missed 4 games and Bubby Brister did the same thing. We don't need him to be a hall of famer, we just need Brock to be good. I thought he showed great poise yesterday. I will take a fresh (or close to) Manning for the last part of the season/playoff run (unless Brock is playing out of his mind or something) and it could be a blessing in disguise. I don't want to remember Manning as a hobbled shell of his former self, he needs to shut down and get right for what is most likely his last playoff run.

Great post and where I'm at. I hate seeing the great Peyton Manning like this - makes me sick to my stomach. Just has been such a sudden and sad dropoff.

Between the Broncos yesterday and the Pats squeaking yet another win out and even the Rousey debacle just a crap sports weekend all around.

[gregbroncs]

So is this the Phantom injury I and others have been expecting? Or is this a real injury? I've said for a while they need to let him bow out gracefully if he didn't improve and was shown to be done. Benching because of injury is a lot easier to swallow than benched for a guy who has never started because the team no longer has faith in him. I don't think Manning will ever really be healthy while playing football again. Is this just the excuse to end his career with some dignity or will he be back later this season. I know nothing about a torn Plantar Fascia.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

In rebuttal, Manning uses his legs to generate all the power on his throws since he's come back. He needs to be 100% from the waist down to be effective imo.

Lower body injuries that an athlete, or even a QB should "normally" be able to deal with, are major factors for Manning post neck surgeries.

Exactly, the playoffs game last year against the Colts showed us what happens when Manning can't plant hard when he throws. It's a disaster because he keeps trying things his mind tells him he can do.
That first go route to Davis was awful. He underthrew him by 10 yards. The ball barely travelled 40 yards.
I would much prefer to see him go out strong, but at this point I don't know if it will happen.

[tripp]

Agree with most posts. I commend Manning for trying to play through it, but for someone who is a 18 year pro with aspirations to win the SB, he should've known better than to play through it. He just aggravated an injury which appears to sideline people for weeks. Bad move on his part. I can't believe Greek thought he was fit enough to play.

Perhaps Peyton was extremely desperate to try break the win record yesterday he thought he could do it that bad of a physical state. Shame on him.

[Northman]

So is this the Phantom injury I and others have been expecting? Or is this a real injury? I've said for a while they need to let him bow out gracefully if he didn't improve and was shown to be done. Benching because of injury is a lot easier to swallow than benched for a guy who has never started because the team no longer has faith in him. I don't think Manning will ever really be healthy while playing football again. Is this just the excuse to end his career with some dignity or will he be back later this season. I know nothing about a torn Plantar Fascia.

Whether its real or not is not important right now. As some others stated its more important that Brock play for a handful of games and IF it is a injury than Manning can get healthy and come back when he is 100%. If not, he can call it a career and be proud that he had a great career but that his body finally gave out.

[GEM]

Vic Lombardi released this info LAST WEEK!! Kubes should have sat Manning. :tsk:

[Northman]

Vic Lombardi released this info LAST WEEK!! Kubes should have sat Manning. :tsk:

Incredible dumb and selfish to have played Manning with his injuries the way they were.

[tripp]

Incredible dumb and selfish to have played Manning with his injuries the way they were.

Incredibly selfish. One thing to play with sore ribs, but a torn ligament is something completely different. He let the team down and his fans.

[BroncoJoe]

Agree with most posts. I commend Manning for trying to play through it, but for someone who is a 18 year pro with aspirations to win the SB, he should've known better than to play through it. He just aggravated an injury which appears to sideline people for weeks. Bad move on his part. I can't believe Greek thought he was fit enough to play.

Perhaps Peyton was extremely desperate to try break the win record yesterday he thought he could do it that bad of a physical state. Shame on him.

I don't believe Peyton is that selfish. I really think he thinks he can still play at a high level.

[Traveler]

Yesterday was really painful to watch. Manning should have never played and shouldn't return for a minimum of 3-4 weeks. Even without the injuries, he has fallen off the proverbial cliff. Questionable decisions on many of his passes with virtually no zip on the ball, save for the GB game. 17 interception total this year thus far. Many of them before his injuries.

Before the season began, I felt that Manning wasn't physically/athletically able to run the ZBS the way it should be. At that time, I mentioned I wished Manning & Elway had moved on after last season.
I still believe that and as much as it pains me to watch his decline, it was not hard to see trying to mesh an aged Manning and the ZBS was a disaster waiting to happen. I feel as bad for Manning as I did for Champ Bailey.

I place some of the blame on Kubiak. He is the HC and at some point, he has to do what is best for the team. Hard as it might have been, he should have benched Manning last week and this one as well. Having said that, it is difficult to do so with a HOF QB and he didn't want to embarrass him in such a way. Yesterday Manning's play forced his hand.

Lastly, right or wrong, my personal feeling is that Manning came back this year to try and end his career on a better note than how it ended last season. I'm also assuming he wanted to get the two remaining records that were within his reach in his quest for another SB.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't believe Peyton is that selfish. I really think he thinks he can still play at a high level.

I think you're right. You could tell he was trying things on Sunday and his body was letting him down.

[MasterShake]

I think you're right. You could tell he was trying things on Sunday and his body was letting him down.

His best game this season was the Green Bay game when he was planting his foot and driving the ball forward. Watching him live yesterday he was always throwing it seemed with only his arm and barely putting pressure on his plant foot. I hope he can heal up quickly, but I don't want to see him like that again anytime soon. Everyone else knows before you do when your body is failing you it seems. I'm only 37 but I still feel like I can play full court basketball with 20-somethings until I find myself jogging up the court just 10 minutes in like I did a few weeks ago at the rec center. :lol:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

His best game this season was the Green Bay game when he was planting his foot and driving the ball forward. Watching him live yesterday he was always throwing it seemed with only his arm and barely putting pressure on his plant foot. I hope he can heal up quickly, but I don't want to see him like that again anytime soon. Everyone else knows before you do when your body is failing you it seems. I'm only 37 but I still feel like I can play full court basketball with 20-somethings until I find myself jogging up the court just 10 minutes in like I did a few weeks ago at the rec center. :lol:

He almost got Sanders killed with one of the floaters.

[VonDoom]

His best game this season was the Green Bay game when he was planting his foot and driving the ball forward. Watching him live yesterday he was always throwing it seemed with only his arm and barely putting pressure on his plant foot. I hope he can heal up quickly, but I don't want to see him like that again anytime soon. Everyone else knows before you do when your body is failing you it seems. I'm only 37 but I still feel like I can play full court basketball with 20-somethings until I find myself jogging up the court just 10 minutes in like I did a few weeks ago at the rec center. :lol:

Agreed. It's no secret that Manning's limited arm strength and advancing age make it harder for him to complete passes. He needs his lower body to be right in order to maximize the strength behind those throws. We saw this with the thigh injury last year that came back to kill our season against the Colts. The fact that this was a similar issue makes me wonder how Kubiak let him play yesterday. He was the one who wanted Manning to rest more this year and be ready for the playoffs. Him playing was contrary to that line of thinking.

[Joel]

Legwold's raised the ante over at ESPN: http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/16416/will-peyton-mannings-foot-injury-spell-the-end-of-his-career

It seems Indy may have ended Mannings career after all; call it Irsays reminder nice guys finish last in all business, including pro sports. I know next to nothing about this kind of injury, or how bad the tear is (though Schefter says the actual tear to the already-injured ligament happened @Indy; the KC game could only make it worse) but it sounds like he'll be out a while: Last years Manning v. Brady game will be the FINAL one unless he's healthy enough for the playoffs and both teams advance far enough for a rematch.

Yet if we end up riding Oz the rest of the season and he mostly plays well, do we dare break the offenses new rhythm by trying to switch gears again (and probably grinding them a bit for at least the first week) when ALL games are win or go home? The nice thing about starting Oz now is that if he gets off to a shaky start that costs us a few games before he begins adjusting we still only need 2-4 wins to reach the playoffs, where anything can happen. Once they start, we're almost obligated to keep dancing with whoever brung us.

[Nomad]

I don't believe Peyton is that selfish. I really think he thinks he can still play at a high level.

Also, I read Eli had the same problem in 2009, but played through the pain, perhaps Peyton feels he can do the same.

[NightTerror218]

Also, I read Eli had the same problem in 2009, but played through the pain, perhaps Peyton feels he can do the same.

10 year age difference, healing takes longer and severity could be worse for peyton.

[Nomad]

10 year age difference, healing takes longer and severity could be worse for peyton.

True! But the mind may not always on the same page as the body.

[gregbroncs]

10 year age difference, healing takes longer and severity could be worse for peyton.Actually they said it was a complete tear for Eli, which they also said is less painful.

[Yashahla17]

Also, I read Eli had the same problem in 2009, but played through the pain, perhaps Peyton feels he can do the same.

Eli wasn't 40 and having his entire body breaking down.

[Yashahla17]

Actually they said it was a complete tear for Eli, which they also said is less painful.

Boomer said he had the same thing manning has and his at his old age didnt heal for two years.....

[Dzone]

massaroti thinks the whole injury thing is orchestrated, to allow manning to bow out gracefully since legends dont get benched
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/massarotti-think-manning-week-orchestrated?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

[Bronco4ever]

massaroti thinks the whole injury thing is orchestrated, to allow manning to bow out gracefully since legends dont get benched
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/massarotti-think-manning-week-orchestrated?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

To some degree yeah. Orchestrated seems like a harsh way of putting it. I think the injury is real (more nagging than anything) but if Manning was actually playing well I think he'd still be playing this week regardless. It's probably good for him to take at least this week off, if not more, and go from there.

[Yashahla17]

massaroti thinks the whole injury thing is orchestrated, to allow manning to bow out gracefully since legends dont get benched
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/massarotti-think-manning-week-orchestrated?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

Who is he?

[BroncoTech]

I thought Peyton was really winding up and his delivery was slower than normal, almost as bad as Tebow. It's hard to tell on TV but that wind up was exaggerated.

[Dzone]

Those facial expressions Manning was making every time he threw. Grimacing in pain. Nice of Kubiak to bend over backwards to protect Mannings delicate ego lol

[Yashahla17]

Those facial expressions Manning was making every time he threw. Grimacing in pain. Nice of Kubiak to bend over backwards to protect Mannings delicate ego lol

Yeah he's been making those faces throwing since training camp. It hurts manning just throwing.

Kubiak did instantly take all the blame. Cowherd says its in manning contract that if he plays terrible someone has to come out and take the blame.

[Canmore]

Yeah he's been making those faces throwing since training camp. It hurts manning just throwing.

Kubiak did instantly take all the blame. Cowherd says its in manning contract that if he plays terrible someone has to come out and take the blame.

You are up past your bedtime. Mommy should take your flashlight away.

[7DnBrnc53]

Legwold's raised the ante over at ESPN: http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/16416/will-peyton-mannings-foot-injury-spell-the-end-of-his-career

It seems Indy may have ended Mannings career after all; call it Irsays reminder nice guys finish last in all business, including pro sports. I know next to nothing about this kind of injury, or how bad the tear is (though Schefter says the actual tear to the already-injured ligament happened @Indy; the KC game could only make it worse) but it sounds like he'll be out a while: Last years Manning v. Brady game will be the FINAL one unless he's healthy enough for the playoffs and both teams advance far enough for a rematch.

Yet if we end up riding Oz the rest of the season and he mostly plays well, do we dare break the offenses new rhythm by trying to switch gears again (and probably grinding them a bit for at least the first week) when ALL games are win or go home? The nice thing about starting Oz now is that if he gets off to a shaky start that costs us a few games before he begins adjusting we still only need 2-4 wins to reach the playoffs, where anything can happen. Once they start, we're almost obligated to keep dancing with whoever brung us.

I read that article. In the comments section, someone was clamoring for Tebow. Can't people just let it go?

I am listening to The Drive podcast (on 104.3 The Fan in Denver), and D-Mac said that he believes that Peyton will return this year. I don't know about that.

They had Dr. Mark Adickes on yesterday, and the Dr. said that Manning could play through this injury if he didn't have the neck surgery. He also thinks that he may take a few weeks off, and then they try to give it a shot to see if it will calm down.

I agree with what you say, though. If they win the next two or three games with OZ, and he does well, how can you go back to Manning?

[Yashahla17]

You are up past your bedtime. Mommy should take your flashlight away.

Yet another grown man with lame jokes.

[SR]

Yet another grown man with lame jokes.

Let's see something better from you.

[gregbroncs]

massaroti thinks the whole injury thing is orchestrated, to allow manning to bow out gracefully since legends dont get benched
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/massarotti-think-manning-week-orchestrated?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahooI wondered this yesterday and have been saying that may be the way to move on from him since week 3. I'm not sure yet that is what they are doing. If Manning doesn't play again this season then you can be sure this is exactly what they did.

[gregbroncs]

I read that article. In the comments section, someone was clamoring for Tebow. Can't people just let it go?

I am listening to The Drive podcast (on 104.3 The Fan in Denver), and D-Mac said that he believes that Peyton will return this year. I don't know about that.

They had Dr. Mark Adickes on yesterday, and the Dr. said that Manning could play through this injury if he didn't have the neck surgery. He also thinks that he may take a few weeks off, and then they try to give it a shot to see if it will calm down.

I agree with what you say, though. If they win the next two or three games with OZ, and he does well, how can you go back to Manning?You can't. If they beat or are even competitive against NE with Os after beating the Bears with him you can't go back to Manning or you will lose the locker room. Players want to win, If Os shows he gives them a better chance of doing that then going back to Manning causes more problems than Benching him outright would have.

[7DnBrnc53]

You can't. If they beat or are even competitive against NE with Os after beating the Bears with him you can't go back to Manning or you will lose the locker room. Players want to win, If Os shows he gives them a better chance of doing that then going back to Manning causes more problems than Benching him outright would have.

On First Take yesterday (Will Cain and Kate Fagan were part of this, not Skip Tebow and Stephen A.), Kate thinks he should play again this year (and then retire). However, Will thinks that he should come back next year (WTF?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tvb7ZxRDy0

Also, on another Bronco forum, someone said that they were listening to Gil Whitely's show on 1340 AM, and Gil basically said that Manning and Elway had a private dinner last night with no wives invited. Gil speculates that John may have told Peyton that he's no longer the starter, but people on the forum said that nobody would ever fire someone during dinner, so who knows?

[NightTrainLayne]

On First Take yesterday (Will Cain and Kate Fagan were part of this, not Skip Tebow and Stephen A.), Kate thinks he should play again this year (and then retire). However, Will thinks that he should come back next year (WTF?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tvb7ZxRDy0

Also, on another Bronco forum, someone said that they were listening to Gil Whitely's show on 1340 AM, and Gil basically said that Manning and Elway had a private dinner last night with no wives invited. Gil speculates that John may have told Peyton that he's no longer the starter, but people on the forum said that nobody would ever fire someone during dinner, so who knows?

Whatever they discussed, I can't see Elway doing that at a "dinner" like that.

They're in a pretty exclusive club. I imagine it was just dinner between two guys whom nobody else can really relate to regarding coming to the end of an HOF career. Not even wives.

[LawDog]

Whatever they discussed, I can't see Elway doing that at a "dinner" like that.

They're in a pretty exclusive club. I imagine it was just dinner between two guys whom nobody else can really relate to regarding coming to the end of an HOF career. Not even wives.

Plus, during the season I doubt they would take the time to do this. Because Peyton is not participating in any way this week - other than treatment - I would imagine they would take advantage of the opportunity. And I'm sure they had a fairly frank discussion on the situation and how each views it.

[Joel]

I read that article. In the comments section, someone was clamoring for Tebow. Can't people just let it go?

I am listening to The Drive podcast (on 104.3 The Fan in Denver), and D-Mac said that he believes that Peyton will return this year. I don't know about that.

They had Dr. Mark Adickes on yesterday, and the Dr. said that Manning could play through this injury if he didn't have the neck surgery. He also thinks that he may take a few weeks off, and then they try to give it a shot to see if it will calm down.

I agree with what you say, though. If they win the next two or three games with OZ, and he does well, how can you go back to Manning?
I wish it were even that easy, but highly doubt we win our next 2-3 or Oz looks good in them. Fox and Gase are at home and coached him HALF his brief career, so they know his strengths/weaknesses better than any NFL coach, including Kubiak. Belicheats D won't be any easier for Oz after two games than it is for Manning after two DECADES. Then we go to SD: McCoy had Oz his whole rookie season, TWICE as long as Kubiak.

Then there's all the shakiness inevitable with any midseason QB switch, on top of an already shaky offense still trying to memorize its brand new playbook. Maybe 3½ years on the bench have already transformed Oz from a talented-but-raw second-tier college QB to an All Pro, but his history and the leagues strongly argue otherwise. All signs point to AT LEAST 2-3 weeks of growing pains during which we can only hope there's as much growth as pain.

The question is what happens then. Manning reportedly tore his ligament in Indy, so the KC game probably made it worse, and Kubiaks post-game comments suggest the big change between Friday and Saturday was Mannings ribs, plus he's been listed with a shoulder injury for a couple weeks: There's no guarantee 2-3 weeks is enough time to get him 100% healthy. And if Oz and the line settle in to convincingly win 2-3 games after a rocky start in the first 2-3, what then?

If/when we find Oz' groove in December, transitioning BACK to Manning will take a little time just as transitioning FROM him did: Do we give up what's started to work with Oz in the hope we can get back into an even more productive rhythm with Manning before it's win-or-go-home time? Will we even have TIME, especially since we probably won't have a wildcard bye? What if Mannings aging patched up body behind our patchwork line gives out again? Actually, that last one's simple: One and done.

Just as on Opening Day, there are no quick nor easy answers here. Most likely, we just saw the end of an era; Manning may return for a couple swan song games, even finally take Favres record for career wins, but it's hard to see him returning in good shape and leading a deep playoff run. After all, Kubiak won his first playoff game with his All Pro starting QB on IR with a foot injury and a rookie UDFA starting.

[BroncoJoe]

Whatever they discussed, I can't see Elway doing that at a "dinner" like that.

They're in a pretty exclusive club. I imagine it was just dinner between two guys whom nobody else can really relate to regarding coming to the end of an HOF career. Not even wives.


Plus, during the season I doubt they would take the time to do this. Because Peyton is not participating in any way this week - other than treatment - I would imagine they would take advantage of the opportunity. And I'm sure they had a fairly frank discussion on the situation and how each views it.

I'm not necessarily buying it, but between two very experienced professionals, I could see this happening as opposed to just calling him into his office.

I do think it was more along the lines that LawDog laid out though.

[CrazyHorse]

I wish it were even that easy, but highly doubt we win our next 2-3 or Oz looks good in them. Fox and Gase are at home and coached him HALF his brief career, so they know his strengths/weaknesses better than any NFL coach, including Kubiak. Belicheats D won't be any easier for Oz after two games than it is for Manning after two DECADES. Then we go to SD: McCoy had Oz his whole rookie season, TWICE as long as Kubiak.

Then there's all the shakiness inevitable with any midseason QB switch, on top of an already shaky offense still trying to memorize its brand new playbook. Maybe 3½ years on the bench have already transformed Oz from a talented-but-raw second-tier college QB to an All Pro, but his history and the leagues strongly argue otherwise. All signs point to AT LEAST 2-3 weeks of growing pains during which we can only hope there's as much growth as pain.

The question is what happens then. Manning reportedly tore his ligament in Indy, so the KC game probably made it worse, and Kubiaks post-game comments suggest the big change between Friday and Saturday was Mannings ribs, plus he's been listed with a shoulder injury for a couple weeks: There's no guarantee 2-3 weeks is enough time to get him 100% healthy. And if Oz and the line settle in to convincingly win 2-3 games after a rocky start in the first 2-3, what then?

If/when we find Oz' groove in December, transitioning BACK to Manning will take a little time just as transitioning FROM him did: Do we give up what's started to work with Oz in the hope we can get back into an even more productive rhythm with Manning before it's win-or-go-home time? Will we even have TIME, especially since we probably won't have a wildcard bye? What if Mannings aging patched up body behind our patchwork line gives out again? Actually, that last one's simple: One and done.

Just as on Opening Day, there are no quick nor easy answers here. Most likely, we just saw the end of an era; Manning may return for a couple swan song games, even finally take Favres record for career wins, but it's hard to see him returning in good shape and leading a deep playoff run. After all, Kubiak won his first playoff game with his All Pro starting QB on IR with a foot injury and a rookie UDFA starting.

In the playoffs the games get tougher. I want the QB with playoff experience.

[tripp]

I wish it were even that easy, but highly doubt we win our next 2-3 or Oz looks good in them. Fox and Gase are at home and coached him HALF his brief career, so they know his strengths/weaknesses better than any NFL coach, including Kubiak. Belicheats D won't be any easier for Oz after two games than it is for Manning after two DECADES. Then we go to SD: McCoy had Oz his whole rookie season, TWICE as long as Kubiak.

Then there's all the shakiness inevitable with any midseason QB switch, on top of an already shaky offense still trying to memorize its brand new playbook. Maybe 3½ years on the bench have already transformed Oz from a talented-but-raw second-tier college QB to an All Pro, but his history and the leagues strongly argue otherwise. All signs point to AT LEAST 2-3 weeks of growing pains during which we can only hope there's as much growth as pain.

The question is what happens then. Manning reportedly tore his ligament in Indy, so the KC game probably made it worse, and Kubiaks post-game comments suggest the big change between Friday and Saturday was Mannings ribs, plus he's been listed with a shoulder injury for a couple weeks: There's no guarantee 2-3 weeks is enough time to get him 100% healthy. And if Oz and the line settle in to convincingly win 2-3 games after a rocky start in the first 2-3, what then?

If/when we find Oz' groove in December, transitioning BACK to Manning will take a little time just as transitioning FROM him did: Do we give up what's started to work with Oz in the hope we can get back into an even more productive rhythm with Manning before it's win-or-go-home time? Will we even have TIME, especially since we probably won't have a wildcard bye? What if Mannings aging patched up body behind our patchwork line gives out again? Actually, that last one's simple: One and done.

Just as on Opening Day, there are no quick nor easy answers here. Most likely, we just saw the end of an era; Manning may return for a couple swan song games, even finally take Favres record for career wins, but it's hard to see him returning in good shape and leading a deep playoff run. After all, Kubiak won his first playoff game with his All Pro starting QB on IR with a foot injury and a rookie UDFA starting.


10-6 I think is a fair guess of how we'll finish this season.

[Joel]

In the playoffs the games get tougher. I want the QB with playoff experience.
I want the QB experienced with the team, and vice versa, not to be getting them all back on the same page throughout a playoff game that could be our last. It comes down to how fast Manning can get to 100%, because he's already demonstrated that if he tries to play through injuries at 39 they and he only get worse.


10-6 I think is a fair guess of how we'll finish this season.
Again, depends on whether Manning's fully healthy in 2-3 weeks (which sounds pretty optimistic to me, given that he's 39 and has three separate injuries, at least one of which was almost certainly worsened trying to play KC.) Otherwise, it depends on how good Oz is/becomes how quickly, and how well all his old coaches remember him: We face them in 4 or our last 7, half on the road, and I'm not too psyched about a QB getting his first starts against NE* or Cincy.

If the D's good enough Oz doesn't have to do much in Chicago, SD remains in injury hell (it's hard to tell the difference between their starting roster and injury report) and Del Rio doesn't have Oz' number after watching him run the scout team against our defensive starters three years running, we cab win half those game, and have a punchers chance @Pitt unless Oz is just awful. So yeah, 10±1 wins is doable, but there could be a big difference between 10-6 vs. 9-7:

Oakland and KC are 3 games back, but still have 4 division games left (including their round robin,) and the rest of both their schedules are pretty soft

Raiders
@Detroit
@Tennessee
KC
@Denver
GB
SD
@KC

Chiefs
@SD
Buffalo
@Oakland
SD
@Baltimore
Cleveland
Oakland

9-7 is also very doable, and 10-6 quite plausible, for BOTH of them, especially if we tank without Manning and lose to Oakland, in which case the divisional tiebreak could get very ugly (especially if KC sweeps Oakland or vice versa.) At this point I feel like we can chalk up at LEAST 3 more losses (notwithstanding the Texans win @Cincy) and that's our whole margin of error: We need to win ALL our other divisional games (particularly Oakland.)

Posters wishing injury on THEIR OWN FREAKING HOF QB just to give them a peek at a total unknown might should've been careful what they wished for, because they GOT it.

[7DnBrnc53]

On the In Thin Air site, someone named Leo Duke thinks that Kubiak won't bench Manning no matter how Osweiler does this Sunday:

http://in-thinair.com/2015/11/17/doc-podcast-and-my-thoughts-on-the-oz-situation/

If they win against Chicago, and if Brock plays well, you can't go back to Peyton for the NE game. If they shoot him up with Cortisol, and if he throws two or three INT's in the first half against the Pats, that stadium could get very ugly. It may be reminiscent of the McToddler era.

[Northman]

I wish it were even that easy, but highly doubt we win our next 2-3 or Oz looks good in them. Fox and Gase are at home and coached him HALF his brief career, so they know his strengths/weaknesses better than any NFL coach, including Kubiak. Belicheats D won't be any easier for Oz after two games than it is for Manning after two DECADES. Then we go to SD: McCoy had Oz his whole rookie season, TWICE as long as Kubiak.

Then there's all the shakiness inevitable with any midseason QB switch, on top of an already shaky offense still trying to memorize its brand new playbook. Maybe 3½ years on the bench have already transformed Oz from a talented-but-raw second-tier college QB to an All Pro, but his history and the leagues strongly argue otherwise. All signs point to AT LEAST 2-3 weeks of growing pains during which we can only hope there's as much growth as pain.

The question is what happens then. Manning reportedly tore his ligament in Indy, so the KC game probably made it worse, and Kubiaks post-game comments suggest the big change between Friday and Saturday was Mannings ribs, plus he's been listed with a shoulder injury for a couple weeks: There's no guarantee 2-3 weeks is enough time to get him 100% healthy. And if Oz and the line settle in to convincingly win 2-3 games after a rocky start in the first 2-3, what then?

If/when we find Oz' groove in December, transitioning BACK to Manning will take a little time just as transitioning FROM him did: Do we give up what's started to work with Oz in the hope we can get back into an even more productive rhythm with Manning before it's win-or-go-home time? Will we even have TIME, especially since we probably won't have a wildcard bye? What if Mannings aging patched up body behind our patchwork line gives out again? Actually, that last one's simple: One and done.

Just as on Opening Day, there are no quick nor easy answers here. Most likely, we just saw the end of an era; Manning may return for a couple swan song games, even finally take Favres record for career wins, but it's hard to see him returning in good shape and leading a deep playoff run. After all, Kubiak won his first playoff game with his All Pro starting QB on IR with a foot injury and a rookie UDFA starting.


Just stop.....

[Northman]

On the In Thin Air site, someone named Leo Duke thinks that Kubiak won't bench Manning no matter how Osweiler does this Sunday:

http://in-thinair.com/2015/11/17/doc-podcast-and-my-thoughts-on-the-oz-situation/

If they win against Chicago, and if Brock plays well, you can't go back to Peyton for the NE game. If they shoot him up with Cortisol, and if he throws two or three INT's in the first half against the Pats, that stadium could get very ugly. It may be reminiscent of the McToddler era.


If Kubiak brings Manning back after only one week than he is a complete moron and no better than Fox in terms of how he handled a injured QB. I understand that the team is going to want to get Manning that last win (at minimum) for the record and will want Manning's experience for the playoffs but if the team forces him back before he is 100% than that will destroy any chance at a successful post season. Playing Oz may not gain us any more wins but the team has to think of the bigger picture here and that is to get Manning healthy IF that is what the problem is. If Manning comes back in 3 weeks and still sucks donkey dicks than we know the "injury" report was simply an excuse to bench him and nothing more.

[LawDog]

Peyton Manning and 100% are not going to be in the same sentence anytime this year. Peyton and healthy enough to be comfortable enough to play is the best we can expect. Peyton and healthy enough to convince Greek and Kubiak that he can play is the most likely situation.

The sudden onset of his rib, at least in my opinion, is probably due to him trying to throw with his core rather than driving with his legs because of his foot. Throw in a shoulder and you get fluttering ducks and four picks.

Until he gets to a point where he can throw by using the power in his legs he won't be effective in the least.