Broncos reach out to Browns for LT Thomas

[DenBronx]

Not much to this story yet but Sambrailo was placed on IR. This move would be insane. Got to think sending Clady in the deal would have to happen.

Broncos Have Approached Browns About Acquiring 8-Time Pro Bowl LT Joe Thomas, According to CBS4 (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/1f9UKQA

[Northman]

Do it.

[gregbroncs]

I think the O-line has improved tremendously.....But if you can get him without losing key pieces this is a no brainer. It would all depend on the asking price.

[Bronco4ever]

I would be in favor of this transaction.

[G_Money]

We'd have to clear cap room. I dunno who we send them to make that happen - the broken remains of Clady + draft picks? I dunno how it would even work.

It's hard to tell with Cleveland. Their front office is a dumpster fire in an outhouse, so it's perfectly believable that they WOULD trade a loyal 8-time Pro-Bowler still in his prime just because they feel like it. I can't see it happening... but I definitely WANT it to happen.

[Dzone]

Oh man, Vernon Davis and J Thomas in the same week? That would be awesome

[Joel]

Oh man, Vernon Davis and J Thomas in the same week? That would be awesome
Is that really what's on the table though, or was Elway just exploring both options to quickly and significantly improve the line, not willing to count on a SINGLE game (even against a great front seven) as proof our starting five have finally figured out how to do their jobs. I mean, I'd LOVE to see both (even at the risk of disrupting fresh and fragile line chemistry) and would be willing to part with better picks than we spent on Davis, but is it still a realistic possibility?

[CrazyHorse]

I don't think we have the cap room. Joe Thomas for Clady and picks makes sense though. A line of Thomas-Mathis-Paradis-Vasquez-Schofield would be solid.

[underrated29]

We just inquired what it would take. We are not making this trade. Just like most teams I am sure.

[CrazyHorse]

His cap hit is lower than Clady's. I wonder what they would want pick wise.

[DenBronx]

His cap hit is lower than Clady's. I wonder what they would want pick wise.

Maybe a 3rd and Clady. Or Clady and one of our backup LBs not named Ray or Shaq on defense.

[underrated29]

Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick

[Yashahla17]

Theres no way we should do this trade if theres anything higher than a second round pick involved. Most id give up is a 3rd.

[CrazyHorse]

Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick

Picking at 32 our first will basically be just an early second.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

No freakin way this happens.

[drewloc]

No freakin way this happens.

I agree but if we could swing it that would be awesome.

[Joel]

Maybe a 3rd and Clady. Or Clady and one of our backup LBs not named Ray or Shaq on defense.
I'd do that in a heartbeat: It'd take a decade of drafts to find a guy like Thomas in the 3rd or lower, and Shaq and Ray are the only OLBs I'd miss (though McCray DID play well last night, so maybe he's an option.)


Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick
That seems more likely: Try to pull another heist like they inflicted on Indy with Richardson recently (but Indy went into that with both eyes open, and are owned by a douche, so: LMFAO.) And if they want a 1st, I must agree with Yoshi that's a no go: We may NEED that 1st rounder if Brock's a bust (see what I did there? ;))

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I agree but if we could swing it that would be awesome.

Absolutely

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Drew, do you think fan attendance would tank if they traded Thomas?

[ShaneFalco]

Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick
for a 30 year old tackle? lol good luck

[G_Money]

Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick

I would give them our first for Joe Thomas. We need to draft a LT anyway, and Joe is better than the one we'll get there at the very end of the first round. That's a few picks from Derek Wolfe territory. I like Wolfe, but I would trade a Wolfe in a heartbeat for Joe Thomas. I just don't think we'd actually have to (maybe give up a 2nd) and I don't understand how the cap money works on our end to facilitate that.

I'd love John to figure it out though. Adding Thomas would be like tossing Zimmerman on the Broncos at the end of his career, except Thomas should have a few more years than that left in him.

[CrazyHorse]

Are you able to trade a player on injured reserve(Clady)?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Are you able to trade a player on injured reserve(Clady)?

Players have to pass physicals with their new teams. I don't see how that would be possible.

[NightTerror218]

CLady would have to be cut basically or take a restructure plus it impacts significant resigning our FA next season with Clady dead money.

[Canmore]

I would give them our first for Joe Thomas. We need to draft a LT anyway, and Joe is better than the one we'll get there at the very end of the first round. That's a few picks from Derek Wolfe territory. I like Wolfe, but I would trade a Wolfe in a heartbeat for Joe Thomas. I just don't think we'd actually have to (maybe give up a 2nd) and I don't understand how the cap money works on our end to facilitate that.

I'd love John to figure it out though. Adding Thomas would be like tossing Zimmerman on the Broncos at the end of his career, except Thomas should have a few more years than that left in him.

Gary played 5 years with us. I could live with that.

[CrazyHorse]

Lady would have to be city basically or take a restructure plus it impacts significant growth our FA next season with Clady dead money.

Huh?

[Timmy!]

Lady would have to be city basically or take a restructure plus it impacts significant growth our FA next season with Clady dead money.

English mother******, do you speak it?

[Yashahla17]

Elway better not mortgage the future for 8 games. The o line is just fine. Cant go off giving up first round picks at this time of the year. Smh

[DenBronx]

Watch Elways press conference today. He dances around this possible trade a bit. Said he wouldn't mortgage the future....he's no dummy people so relax. He always wins trades and finding best free agents.

[underrated29]

Watch Elways press conference today. He dances around this possible trade a bit. Said he wouldn't mortgage the future....he's no dummy people so relax. He always wins trades and finding best free agents.

Yep but it seems like he's made them an offer......
-------------
As far as I know we won't have the cap to take on Joe T. We'd have to dump someone to free up space.
Maybe it's clady and a LB. or clady and a 2nd or something. But we would have to get rid of clady and some cap this year to do it. Elway always wins so I think if we trade we will likely come out on top.

[Joel]

Players have to pass physicals with their new teams. I don't see how that would be possible.
That's always been my understanding, so an All Pro LT for All Pro LT deal doesn't look possible, no. Which means we'd probably have to give up a HELL of a lot to get one from a team with precious few truly great players to spare. Though it does look like Cleveland has EVERYONE on the table, which makes me wonder what they're up to. Probably trying to work a Vikings-Cowboys deal to get multiple good players for one great one and instantly go from dumpster fire to competitive, like they tried with T Rich.

If so, I REALLY hope (and do believe) Elway's smart enough not to enable that.

[Yashahla17]

Yep but it seems like he's made them an offer......
-------------
As far as I know we won't have the cap to take on Joe T. We'd have to dump someone to free up space.
Maybe it's clady and a LB. or clady and a 2nd or something. But we would have to get rid of clady and some cap this year to do it. Elway always wins so I think if we trade we will likely come out on top.

I just wish elway drafted aswell as he approaches free agents

[CrazyHorse]

So after looking it up I'm pretty sure we can't cut or trade Clady so this deal doesn't look possible.

[UnderArmour]

So after looking it up I'm pretty sure we can't cut or trade Clady so this deal doesn't look possible.

The Broncos can trade Clady off IR, but the Browns would have to accept him as is. Someone else in this thread said that he has to pass a physical, but trading injured players is definitely allowed by the CBA. "Passing" would be the Browns knowing what is wrong with him (torn ACL) and clearing him for the purposes of a trade. So yes, a trade is possible, albeit unlikely.

[DenBronx]

Shipping Clady would have to be part of the deal. Pipe dream otherwise. But still good to dream about it.

I believe Elway is looking at multiple options. Not just one.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I just wish elway drafted aswell as he approaches free agents
Take a look at our defense and tell me doesn't draft well.

Wolfe, Williams, Jackson

Miller, Trevathan, Marshall

Roby

[TXBRONC]

I think the O-line has improved tremendously.....But if you can get him without losing key pieces this is a no brainer. It would all depend on the asking price.

It's doubtful that Elway could work that kind of deal. To get one of the best left tackles in the game would be expensive.

[TXBRONC]

Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick

No surprise there.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I think the Browns would be stupid to trade Joe Thomas, but of they're willing he would absolutely be worth a late 1st.

[Yashahla17]

Take a look at our defense and tell me doesn't draft well.

Wolfe, Williams, Jackson

Miller, Trevathan, Marshall

Roby

Fair enough i need to go look at the higher picks. I don't think many have panned out or aren't even on the team. Or maybe I'm just tripping

[CoachChaz]

Considering our luck with 2nd round picks...I'd trade next years for an impact player if the money worked.

[drewloc]

Drew, do you think fan attendance would tank if they traded Thomas?

Thomas is as close to a beloved player you can get in Cleveland. If they traded him most of the fan base would be pissed. If Cleveland wants to trade him though I would definitely take him. He is outstanding.

[CrazyHorse]

The Broncos can trade Clady off IR, but the Browns would have to accept him as is. Someone else in this thread said that he has to pass a physical, but trading injured players is definitely allowed by the CBA. "Passing" would be the Browns knowing what is wrong with him (torn ACL) and clearing him for the purposes of a trade. So yes, a trade is possible, albeit unlikely.

Interesting. So it's definitely possible then.

[Cugel]

I would give them our first for Joe Thomas. We need to draft a LT anyway, and Joe is better than the one we'll get there at the very end of the first round. That's a few picks from Derek Wolfe territory. I like Wolfe, but I would trade a Wolfe in a heartbeat for Joe Thomas. I just don't think we'd actually have to (maybe give up a 2nd) and I don't understand how the cap money works on our end to facilitate that.

I'd love John to figure it out though. Adding Thomas would be like tossing Zimmerman on the Broncos at the end of his career, except Thomas should have a few more years than that left in him.

You can bet that Zimmerman is exactly what Elway is thinking. The one glaring weakness of this Broncos team has been the OL. Joe Thomas is 30 and (unlike Ryan Clady who has missed two of the last 3 seasons due to serious knee injury and is clearly not worth the $10 M he would get next year), Joe Thomas is still an elite player, as good or better than Clady at his best. Remember that Thomas was the 3rd overall pick in the 2007 draft. The Broncos hopefully won't be drafting at #3 in the next decade.

Would he be worth a #1 pick?

DOWN SIDE:
On the down side, you're giving up the right to draft a player who might play for you for 5-6 years and be an impact player. Also Joe Thomas is 30, and his skills could start to decline in a couple of years, which means he might be perhaps a 2 or 3 year rental. You're giving up future potential for a present player. Also he's adding close to $10 M a year to the salary cap. Unless Manning retires, they are going to need Ryan Clady's $10 M to re-sign DT to a $17M+ deal next off-season. And they have lots of other FAs. Meanwhile they already drafted Ty Sambrailo to be the Broncos long-term solution at LT.

PLUS Side:
On the plus side the Broncos will be drafting somewhere around #26-32 anyway, and there's zero chance you get a T like Thomas anywhere near that draft position. In fact, it is more probable than not that there's NOBODY in the entire NFL draft who can play like Thomas in any given year. Depending on the year, late first round picks could just as easily wind up being mediocre as anything special. Getting a starting LT who grades out among the top 5 in the NFL is difficult no matter what your draft position.

Unless you have a top 10 pick or get amazingly lucky in the draft, getting an experienced, elite pro-bowl LT is almost impossible. IF the Broncos would take a #1 pick for Thomas I'd do that deal in a heart-beat. The problem is that I seriously doubt that the Browns prefer Denver's pick to any other they could get. On the plus side though, other teams with better draft picks might not be willing to give up a #1 pick for Thomas as they are in rebuilding mode and will need all their draft picks. The salary cap problems are daunting for some too.

From Rotoworld:
Joe Thomas: 8/22/2011: Signed an eight-year, $92 million contract. The deal contains $44 million guaranteed. There is a $200,000 workout bonus in each year of 2012-2018 and a $1 million roster bonus in each year of 2016-2018. 2015: $8.8 million, 2016: $8.3 million, 2017-2018: $8.8 million, 2019: Free Agent

The Broncos would be on the hook for the pro-rated portion of his $2015 contract ($5.5 M). Plus his future pay of close to $9 M.

In deals like this though, the player almost always want to re-negotiate his contract and sign a new deal. However, this is an unusual situation since Thomas is under contract through 2018, so the Broncos are under no obligation to do any negotiating if they don't want to.

They might therefore, just want to start re-negotiations perhaps next season.

From Cleveland comes the word as to why the Browns want to trade Thomas and their pro-bowl C Mack:
Still, this is an interesting and rather unorthodox approach to the trade deadline. The team likely feels they can replace Mack with 2015 first-round pick Cam Erving and slot one of their other highly-regarded offensive linemen in for Thomas.

[Cugel]

If the Broncos do this deal it means they are seriously going ALL IN on a SB run this season. That makes sense. They have the defense.

It's clear that if Manning gets a LT who can pass-block like Joe Thomas, and if Evan Mathis can recover his health, the left side of the Broncos line would go from a problem to formidable. Joe Thomas can handle some of the NFL's best pass-rushers single-handed, leaving the Broncos free to move their TEs more into pass-receiving. That will be key since they just signed Vernon Davis, and it's a complete waste to trade for him and not have him catching passes. True, he's a good blocking TE, which is necessary in this system. But, you don't trade for a Vernon Davis because of his blocking skills.

This would be just absolutely HUGE for Elway to engineer a trade for Thomas.

For all the Osweiler fans out there, the best thing the Broncos could do for Brock Osweiler long-term would be to start out his NFL career by giving him the absolute best OL they could. He would no doubt struggle as a rookie, so having a strong running game and great pass-protection to help him would be a giant help.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Bottom line for me is trying to win a championship. Anytime I hear "mortgaging the future" or anything of the sort when dealing with the NFL and being concerned with trading draft picks I always stop and think of all the draft picks each year who are busts.

This is possibly the best defense we've ever had and may have for quite some time. It's championship caliber. We need to be all in right now to win a Super Bowl. I'd rather go all in now and win a Super Bowl then suffer through a couple losing seasons with Brock and cap hell than another 12-4 first round playoff exit and then still maybe be 4-12 next year with Brock or someone else.

One Super Bowl win is worth a decade of mediocrity. Team chemistry is everything to winning a championship and it changes every year. This team could look completely different next year even if we don't trade for Thomas.

I'd trade our 1st rounder for Thomas in a heartbeat.

[Yashahla17]

Sorry but elway has went ALL IN since manning got here and still haven't won. Its makes no sense to go all in all over a again when the chances are higher to be a early playoff exit vs winning it all....

[Ravage!!!]

Sorry but elway has went ALL IN since manning got here and still haven't won. Its makes no sense to go all in all over a again when the chances are higher to be a early playoff exit vs winning it all....

probably one of the dumbest comments on the boards to date.

Seriously? You have one of the top defenses this franchise has ever seen, and still a HoF QB at QB with two studs on the outside. To say it doesn't make sense to make a run for the SUper Bowl (which is what the Broncos do) right now..... is absolutely assinine.

[Yashahla17]

Guess what simpleton the defense will be back next year, so will those weapons on offense. The o line will be better. Only person not coming back in manning. Elway wants a dynasty not to win a ring and fall into mediocrity the next 10 years. Go play madden if you want to live out your simple ass plan to win one ring and stink the next ten years.

[Yashahla17]

The broncos have enough right now to win a ring as long as manning doesn't fall on his face come playoff time like the last 3 years/ entire career as a colt. At this point you just play it out.

[Ravage!!!]

The broncos have enough right now to win a ring as long as manning doesn't fall on his face come playoff time like the last 3 years/ entire career as a colt. At this point you just play it out.

Just absolutely horrendous comment. I know you aren't a Broncos fan, but at least offer up some intelligent interjection as to what a team should do. It's obviously pretty ignorant to think that any unit that is playing as well as it is right now, will simply "return" next year.

Also.... go live in reality if you don't think 1 Super Bowl ring is worth more than 10 years of not getting one. Ask any f ranchise in the game if they would trade one Championship for 10 years of hoping.

The "simpleton" is the one that sits back and "hopes" things can develop enough to match what we have now. Sit back and hope, is how you develop medicrity.

[Yashahla17]

Sorry im not a average simpleton fan like you and many. And niether is john elway who clearly stated he will NOT mortgage the future under any circumstances. So you want to call elway ignorant? Bwahahah

[Ravage!!!]

Sorry im not a average simpleton fan like you and many. And niether is john elway who clearly stated he will NOT mortgage the future under any circumstances. So you want to call elway ignorant? Bwahahah

You can't seem to make up your mind.

So why he states he won't mortgage the future, perhaps his definition of that action is differnt than yours. Going by from wht I heard, he's inquiring .... which would mean he absolutely sees the chance now.. with Manning...is MUCH greater than without Manning. Which is the intellignet line of thinking considering how hard it is to find a francchise QB. But then.... you seem to think that the tema can just sit back an d"hope" to find that purely because you "want" on

[Yashahla17]

Listen my boy why are you mad that elway agrees with me? You can try create different definitions of mortgaging the future if you want. Me and elway both knows what it means and its not going to happen for you unless you can pull it off on madden

[MOtorboat]

Sorry im not a average simpleton fan like you and many. And niether is john elway who clearly stated he will NOT mortgage the future under any circumstances. So you want to call elway ignorant? Bwahahah

Joe Thomas is signed for seven years. He is under contract until 2022.

Do you even understand what "mortgaging the future" means? Because locking up a left tackle for seven years is not mortgaging the future.

[Yashahla17]

Fair enough. So what happens with Clady then? Just flat out release him or move him to RT?

[MOtorboat]

Fair enough. So what happens with Clady then? Just flat out release him or move him to RT?

Clady would likely have to be in this trade from a cap-space standpoint, which is what makes it so unlikely. Add into it that Thomas apparently likes Cleveland and reportedly won't waive his no trade, and there you go, you get your wish. It doesn't happen.

If Elway reached out to Cleveland, he likely waited for an answer before pulling the trigger on the Davis trade.

Seeing a pair of high-profile player trades mid-season (Jared Allen) in the NFL is rare, let alone one team making two.

[Cugel]

Guess what simpleton the defense will be back next year, so will those weapons on offense. The o line will be better. Only person not coming back in manning. Elway wants a dynasty not to win a ring and fall into mediocrity the next 10 years. Go play madden if you want to live out your simple ass plan to win one ring and stink the next ten years.

For someone who consistently makes idiotic arguments, calling someone "simpleton" and saying something absurd is the hallmark of a low order of intelligence indeed.

Earth to Yashahla17: No, the defense WON'T "be back next year." Not THIS defense with THESE defenders, no significant injuries, and more to the point, THESE players playing together this well. This is a once in a lifetime thing for some of these players.

The 2000 Ravens were the best defense in NFL history. They gave up 165 points that year and won the SB with Trent Dilfer. In 2001, the team played much worse, and they finished 10-6, 3 games behind the Steelers. Then they got walloped in the playoffs by those same Steelers. They never went back to the SB with those same players again. 12 years later in Ray Lewis's last year they finally went back, but none of his teammates were still there.

Ravens defense in 2001? Gave up 265 points, 100 more than their record setting year. In fact neither they nor anybody else ever approached that level of defense again. Same thing happened to the 2002 Bucs. They won the SB with Trent Dilfer and an all-time great defense that gave up 196 points. In 2003, they went 7-9, failed to make the playoffs, and their defense gave up 264 points. They are still waiting for another championship in Tampa, but they haven't got a whiff of one since then.

Players move on to FA, players get injured, players don't play as well from year to year. Things change.

You can't just pretend the Broncos are going to have "the same defense". Historically great defenses are like fragile, time sensitive things. Here one year, gone the next.

Salary Cap: There are lots of Broncos who will become FAs next season. ALL of them are going to want to cash in and get paid. The team will not be able to afford to keep them all. That's NFL Salary cap reality. Von Miller and Malik Jackson are only two examples. Some of them will wind up on other teams, and the players who replace them won't be as good.

That is life in the NFL in the salary cap era. Teams can't afford to keep everybody.

This defense is historically great. Good enough to win a SB. They should still be good next year, but history says they will never be this good again with these players. And Brock Osweiler will be a rookie, and there's no guarantee he'll even be good enough to start in this league.

[Cugel]

Clady would likely have to be in this trade from a cap-space standpoint, which is what makes it so unlikely. Add into it that Thomas apparently likes Cleveland and reportedly won't waive his no trade, and there you go, you get your wish. It doesn't happen.

If Elway reached out to Cleveland, he likely waited for an answer before pulling the trigger on the Davis trade.

Seeing a pair of high-profile player trades mid-season (Jared Allen) in the NFL is rare, let alone one team making two.

Clady doesn't have to be in the trade and the Browns don't want Clady. They have young guys on their roster ready to step in for much less money. That's why they are trading Thomas. Broncos just have to redo the contract to change some portion of Thomas' salary to cash and come up with the cash signing bonus.

The Broncos will find a way to fit Thomas in under the cap if they trade for him. In fact if they even try they will have figured out in advance how they will maneuver around the cap.

As for Thomas, he may like Cleveland, but they don't want him. And it's absurd to say he wouldn't come to Denver, 7-0 and a Super-Bowl favorite instead of sticking with the bottom feeding Cleveland Browns and not even getting into the playoffs.

[MOtorboat]

Clady doesn't have to be in the trade and the Browns don't want Clady. They have young guys on their roster ready to step in for much less money. That's why they are trading Thomas. Broncos just have to redo the contract to change some portion of Thomas' salary to cash and come up with the cash signing bonus.

The Broncos will find a way to fit Thomas in under the cap if they trade for him. In fact if they even try they will have figured out in advance how they will maneuver around the cap.

As for Thomas, he may like Cleveland, but they don't want him. And it's absurd to say he wouldn't come to Denver, 7-0 and a Super-Bowl favorite instead of sticking with the bottom feeding Cleveland Browns and not even getting into the playoffs.

Are you always this ******* clueless?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/11/cleveland_browns_trade_rumors_joe_thomas.html

"I want to be here. I want to finish my career here."

Absurd?

Nope. It's what he said.

[MOtorboat]

Not to mention his extension was signed before this season. It's pretty clueless to say a team doesn't want a guy signed before the current season.

Entertaining a trade for value and not wanting a player are two separate actions. It's quite clearly the former with Joe Thomas.

[TimHippo]

Sorry im not a average simpleton fan like you and many. And niether is john elway who clearly stated he will NOT mortgage the future under any circumstances. So you want to call elway ignorant? Bwahahah

My name is Yashi. hear me roar. Roar!

[TXBRONC]

Clady doesn't have to be in the trade and the Browns don't want Clady. They have young guys on their roster ready to step in for much less money. That's why they are trading Thomas. Broncos just have to redo the contract to change some portion of Thomas' salary to cash and come up with the cash signing bonus.

The Broncos will find a way to fit Thomas in under the cap if they trade for him. In fact if they even try they will have figured out in advance how they will maneuver around the cap.

As for Thomas, he may like Cleveland, but they don't want him. And it's absurd to say he wouldn't come to Denver, 7-0 and a Super-Bowl favorite instead of sticking with the bottom feeding Cleveland Browns and not even getting into the playoffs.

The Broncos reached out to Cleveland not the other way around Cugel.

[GEM]

Guys, enough with the simpleton, ******* clueless and other personal digs at each other.

[VonDoom]

This is the most substantive report I've seen on this topic so far - we apparently offered our first rounder for Thomas and the Browns wanted more:


Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com reports that the Browns and Broncos discussed a trade for All-Pro left tackle Joe Thomas, and the Broncos were willing to give up their 2016 first-round pick. However, the Browns wanted even more than that, also asking for the promising young linebacker Shaq Barrett, and the Broncos decided that was too much.

Those discussions came after the Broncos lost their first left tackle, Ryan Clady, to a season-ending injury but before the Broncos lost their second left tackle, Ty Sambrailo, to a season-ending injury. It’s possible that the Broncos could be willing to sweeten the offer today after placing Sambrailo on injured reserve yesterday.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/03/report-broncos-offered-browns-a-first-round-pick-for-joe-thomas/

The report is a little vague on the time frame, but it's believable to me. I'd have done it for the first rounder. I would not have done it for the first rounder and Barrett, though.

[SR]

I don't know how I feel about potentially losing Barrett but if that's what it takes to land Joe Thomas I have to wonder if losing a first rounder and a very good backup LB is worth picking up the best left tackle in football. Would I be upset if Denver made that trade? I can't say I would be.

[Dzone]

Yes, a first rounder for a guy who could play at all pro level for 3-5 years is reasonable, but a 1st plus shaq barrett? No way. Barrett is a freak

[VonDoom]

I'm thinking now that the report is out there, that it's not happening. If they were still dealing, this wouldn't have come out. Like I said, I wouldn't do that deal, and it pains me to say it, because I think Thomas is the best. They would have play some salary cap roulette to fit him in anyway. Fun to think about though. That means that Elway is still looking.

[underrated29]

On one hand it's a first and a udfa.....when we already have Von, ware, Ray, and larantee McCray. That's still a fearsome foursome. So losing shaq wouldn't be that big of a loss compared to what we would gain.


Having said all of that I still wouldn't do it I don't think, I wouldn't be pissed but I wouldn't be happy like I am for VD (yes I worded it that way on purpose for original comedic effect)

I don't think Elway does it, he always owns the Browns. Maybe he will make them sweat it out and take something less

[tomjonesrocks]

Barrett is such a recent development it's hard to know what his real value is - and he becomes crucial if anything happens to Ware or Miller.

Am not surprised that was the ask though. Seems like it should be more like a 2nd or 3rd and Barrett even though Denver basically discovered Barrett on the scrap heap.

Firsts have tremendous standalone value now that rookies aren't so overpaid. Even a late one like Denver's should be enough. I could see moving Travathan though.

[Mike]

I don't know how I feel about potentially losing Barrett but if that's what it takes to land Joe Thomas I have to wonder if losing a first rounder and a very good backup LB is worth picking up the best left tackle in football. Would I be upset if Denver made that trade? I can't say I would be.

No thanks. Shaq has too much potential and you never know how things are going to shape up with Von or Ware.

[tomjonesrocks]

So is the deadline noon ET?

[UnderArmour]

So is the deadline noon ET?

4 PM IIRC.

Giving up Barrett would not be a smart move because he is playing well, we need Von holdout insurance, Ware's status beyond this year is uncertain, and Shane Ray is currently out so we especially need the depth going forward. If a first round pick was offered, I think a deal happens by the deadline.

[Cugel]

The Broncos reached out to Cleveland not the other way around Cugel.

So? The Browns are entertaining offers for Joe Thomas, who is an consistent pro-bowl player - one of the top 3 LTs in football. That means they don't want him. It doesn't mean they intend to cut him, but they have other needs that are more pressing than LT.


The Broncos are buyers and the Browns are sellers as this afternoon’s NFL trade deadline approaches, and there has apparently been talk of the Broncos buying the Browns’ most valuable asset (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/03/report-broncos-offered-browns-a-first-round-pick-for-joe-thomas/).

Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com reports that the Browns and Broncos discussed a trade for All-Pro left tackle Joe Thomas, and the Broncos were willing to give up their 2016 first-round pick. However, the Browns wanted even more than that, also asking for the promising young linebacker Shaq Barrett, and the Broncos decided that was too much.

The talks will continue up till the deadline. Maybe the deal gets done, maybe not. Cleveland should ask for more than a 1st round pick, considering Denver's #1 pick will be about #27 or worse this year. Last year they had the 28th pick of the first round after going 13-3. This year would at worst be something roughly comparable given they are 7-0.

I'd offer a 1st and a 3rd for Thomas and let the Browns draft their own Shaquil Barrett. As for the Browns they are trying to clean house and start over with the rebuilding, according to NFL.com:



Browns looking to trade Alex Mack and Joe Thomas?

By Conor Orr
Around The NFL Writer
Published: Nov. 1, 2015 at 10:30 a.m.
Updated: Nov. 1, 2015 at 02:49 p.m.

The Browns might very well be in liquidation mode ahead of next year's NFL draft. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000569518/article/browns-looking-to-trade-alex-mack-and-joe-thomas)

Per NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport, the team has had talks about dealing arguably their two best players -- center Alex Mack and left tackle Joe Thomas.

The news is rather surprising given that Thomas is under contract through 2018 -- he has no guaranteed money for 2016 -- and Mack, who was almost lost in free agency to the Jacksonville Jaguars a season ago, has a no-trade clause. Mack -- who was listed by our Marc Sessler as a prime trade candidate earlier this week -- can opt out of his long-term deal after this season, though, which could be a motivating factor.

Still, this is an interesting and rather unorthodox approach to the trade deadline. The team likely feels they can replace Mack with 2015 first-round pick Cam Erving and slot one of their other highly-regarded offensive linemen in for Thomas.
Every game, all season

Rapoport added that the team is also open to dealing former high-priced free agent acquisition Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo, the No. 6 overall pick from the 2013 draft. This, after already dealing Trent Richardson, their No. 3 overall pick from the 2012 draft. If you're just now sensing a pattern here, catch up. This is Browns football.

They are getting rid of their franchise players and starting over with younger players. That's what bad teams do. Yes, Joe Thomas is a great player, but how much has he helped them so far? They are not one or two players away from competing with the Ravens and Steelers in their division, they are 8-10 players away. And they have other players already on the roster they feel they can slot in and start on the OL, who make a lot less money than Thomas, so they can devote more of their salary cap to other needs and have more ammunition to move around in the draft and acquire talent.

Would I do this if I were the Cleveland GM? No. Will the Browns do it? Probably. That's why they are the Browns!

[Northman]

Yes, a first rounder for a guy who could play at all pro level for 3-5 years is reasonable, but a 1st plus shaq barrett? No way. Barrett is a freak

Yea, im not sure about losing Barrett.

[Cugel]

I'm thinking now that the report is out there, that it's not happening. If they were still dealing, this wouldn't have come out. Like I said, I wouldn't do that deal, and it pains me to say it, because I think Thomas is the best. They would have play some salary cap roulette to fit him in anyway. Fun to think about though. That means that Elway is still looking.

The Broncos are not offering Shaquil Barrett. That deal is dead. However, that does not mean they won't make another offer, presumably offering more draft picks. It would be hard for the Browns to justify taking just the Broncos #1 pick, when that pick is likely to be at the bottom of the first round. Broncos pick is likely worth 660 points or fewer. The #1 overall pick by comparison is worth 3000. The Broncos 2015 3rd round pick was worth 132 points, so both together barely are equal to the #22 pick of the first round. I.e. a late 3rd round pick is barely worth anything.

And it doesn't look like any other team is offering more, so we'll see. If I were Elway I'd see if anybody else met the Browns demand and then offer another draft pick on top of the first rounder they offered - 2nd or 3rd round perhaps.

How many holes are there on this team they need to fill? I'd say the Broncos are completely solid at every position EXCEPT LT. They can't count on Ryan Clady going forward and now down to their #3 or #4 LT - journeymen Tyler Polumbus or Ryan Harris.

Can you really win a SB with Harris or Polumbus at LT? And what happens if one of them gets hurt? Then what? The Broncos SB hopes may depend on getting some help at LT.

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. Just offer more picks. The Browns don't need Barrett because they are going nowhere this season and can draft a LT next year if they want.

[Cugel]

Joe Thomas is a realist. He's not looking to leave Cleveland, but he understands how the business works, and he's realistic that it's not up to him. He's never played on a SB team and this Broncos team with him on it could win a SB very easily.


I'm not a quitter. I'm not a guy that gives up on my goals and my goal from day one was to be part of the turnaround here and that hasn't changed. ... The reality of it is we're right now a 2-6 team and the trade deadline is coming up. If you're a team that doesn't have a winning record I imagine it happens all the time where teams will call up your team and find out if you're available for a trade. It's happened in the past with me in my career. But it's out of my control. (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2585582-nfl-rumors-top-trade-buzz-surrounding-eric-weddle-joe-thomas-and-more)I want to be here. I want to finish my career here. I want to be part of the turnaround here. That's the way it is sometimes, you've got to control the things you can control.

Although trading Thomas would almost certainly bring back some solid assets and free up cap space to bring in other impact players during the offseason, Sports Illustrated's Peter King doesn't believe it is something the Browns should explore:

The Browns probably shouldn't do it, but they also need a QB next year and they might need extra ammo to move up in the first round and ensure they are in position to draft one. What if they are locked in at, say #4 or #5 and need to move up to #2? They would need draft picks worth about 800 points to move from #4 to #2.

Well the Broncos pick might be worth perhaps 660 points. It might mean the difference between having the extra ammo they need to swing the deal without giving up any more of their own draft picks. You have to consider the future. They haven't got a franchise QB right now, and without one they are never going anywhere. So, if they can get by with some other OL already on the roster and need extra draft ammo, they might do the deal.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Clady would likely have to be in this trade from a cap-space standpoint, which is what makes it so unlikely. Add into it that Thomas apparently likes Cleveland and reportedly won't waive his no trade, and there you go, you get your wish. It doesn't happen.

If Elway reached out to Cleveland, he likely waited for an answer before pulling the trigger on the Davis trade.

Seeing a pair of high-profile player trades mid-season (Jared Allen) in the NFL is rare, let alone one team making two.

Their center is the one with a no trade clause, not Thomas, but I agrew the likelihood of them trading him is not good.

I personally would be 100% in favor of giving up a first for him, or even a couple 2nd s

[silkamilkamonico]

No way on Barrett. He'll be our future starter opposite of Miller. He's that f'n good. He's also only 22 and the youngest LB on the team. If Barrett was included in any way, would absolutely be mortgaging the future for this year. Just stupid.

[TXBRONC]

Joe Thomas is a realist. He's not looking to leave Cleveland, but he understands how the business works, and he's realistic that it's not up to him. He's never played on a SB team and this Broncos team with him on it could win a SB very easily.



The Browns probably shouldn't do it, but they also need a QB next year and they might need extra ammo to move up in the first round and ensure they are in position to draft one. What if they are locked in at, say #4 or #5 and need to move up to #2? They would need draft picks worth about 800 points to move from #4 to #2.

Well the Broncos pick might be worth perhaps 660 points. It might mean the difference between having the extra ammo they need to swing the deal without giving up any more of their own draft picks. You have to consider the future. They haven't got a franchise QB right now, and without one they are never going anywhere. So, if they can get by with some other OL already on the roster and need extra draft ammo, they might do the deal.

Taking calls isn't the samething as actively trying trade him. It sounds to me like the writer is jumping to conclusions.

[Ravage!!!]

No way on Barrett. He'll be our future starter opposite of Miller. He's that f'n good. He's also only 22 and the youngest LB on the team. If Barrett was included in any way, would absolutely be mortgaging the future for this year. Just stupid.

mortgaging your future by trading a DE that MIGHT sustain a couple of good games for a stud LT? I'd take that trade in a heartbeat.

Thomas has proved to be a BEAST at one of the most important positions in football, while Barrett MIGHT be good once given more time. That's not stupid, that's taking an unknown with hope and trading it for a known commodity.

[VonDoom]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 27m27 minutes ago

To be specific, Browns were asking two 1st-round picks for OT Joe Thomas. They won't get that.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 19m19 minutes ago

Truth is, Broncos and Browns have been discussing Joe Thomas for weeks. Makes sense for Browns to try to drive up the price.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 17m17 minutes ago

If Joe Thomas had a say in the matter (which he doesn't), he'd run to Denver as fast as he could. But again, why would Browns trade him?

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 15m15 minutes ago

Vic Lombardi Retweeted Jordan awbrey

Much more promising a week ago. I'd say highly unlikely now. Asking too much.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 27m27 minutes ago

To be specific, Browns were asking two 1st-round picks for OT Joe Thomas. They won't get that.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 19m19 minutes ago

Truth is, Broncos and Browns have been discussing Joe Thomas for weeks. Makes sense for Browns to try to drive up the price.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 17m17 minutes ago

If Joe Thomas had a say in the matter (which he doesn't), he'd run to Denver as fast as he could. But again, why would Browns trade him?

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 15m15 minutes ago

Vic Lombardi Retweeted Jordan awbrey

Much more promising a week ago. I'd say highly unlikely now. Asking too much.

They have to ask for the farm for Joe Thomas. That's the only way they could sell the trade to their fan base.

[Yashahla17]

Smh @ shaq MIGHT be good when hes already established himself as one of the best in the game. He IS GOOD. and i wouldnt trade him for joe thomas at all. The browns better take some draft picks.

[tomjonesrocks]

Smh @ shaq MIGHT be good when hes already established himself as one of the best in the game. He IS GOOD. and i wouldnt trade him for joe thomas at all. The browns better take some draft picks.

smh smh smh smh smh smh smh

[slim]

Cleveland is trippin

[Buff]

I can see why Alex Mack doesn't want to waive his no trade clause, who'd want to leave this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

[silkamilkamonico]

mortgaging your future by trading a DE that MIGHT sustain a couple of good games for a stud LT? I'd take that trade in a heartbeat.

Thomas has proved to be a BEAST at one of the most important positions in football, while Barrett MIGHT be good once given more time. That's not stupid, that's taking an unknown with hope and trading it for a known commodity.

Yea...no. F'n stupid. "Might" be good? He "is" f'n good. Do you even watch the games? If we did that trade, that's Denver all in this year, which isn't a bad thing, but if they didn't win a SuperBowl this year Elway would have egg on his face. Go ahead and include Shane Ray, but not Shaq Barrett, who's been an absolute beast in both the pass rushing and run game. Barrett is a f'n stud.

[Yashahla17]

I can see why Alex Mack doesn't want to waive his no trade clause, who'd want to leave this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

That was so lame.

[Yashahla17]

Yea...no. F'n stupid. "Might" be good? He "is" f'n good. Do you even watch the games? If we did that trade, that's Denver all in this year, which isn't a bad thing, but if they didn't win a SuperBowl this year Elway would have egg on his face. Go ahead and include Shane Ray, but not Shaq Barrett, who's been an absolute beast in both the pass rushing and run game. Barrett is a f'n stud.

That guy says alot of dumb things and actually believe it. Scary stuff.

[Krugan]

Would be a great move, 2 years of very good left tackle while we groom the young guy.

Its not just for today, this move would look really good(minus barret) for along while to come.

[TXBRONC]

So? The Browns are entertaining offers for Joe Thomas, who is an consistent pro-bowl player - one of the top 3 LTs in football. That means they don't want him. It doesn't mean they intend to cut him, but they have other needs that are more pressing than LT.


The talks will continue up till the deadline. Maybe the deal gets done, maybe not. Cleveland should ask for more than a 1st round pick, considering Denver's #1 pick will be about #27 or worse this year. Last year they had the 28th pick of the first round after going 13-3. This year would at worst be something roughly comparable given they are 7-0.

I'd offer a 1st and a 3rd for Thomas and let the Browns draft their own Shaquil Barrett. As for the Browns they are trying to clean house and start over with the rebuilding, according to NFL.com:




They are getting rid of their franchise players and starting over with younger players. That's what bad teams do. Yes, Joe Thomas is a great player, but how much has he helped them so far? They are not one or two players away from competing with the Ravens and Steelers in their division, they are 8-10 players away. And they have other players already on the roster they feel they can slot in and start on the OL, who make a lot less money than Thomas, so they can devote more of their salary cap to other needs and have more ammunition to move around in the draft and acquire talent.

Would I do this if I were the Cleveland GM? No. Will the Browns do it? Probably. That's why they are the Browns!

I think you're putting way to much in reporting and then drawing conclusions that are not necessarily there. The report might be trying to liquidate that's assumption not a fact. The Browns haven't put Thomas on the trading block but have entertained inquires that's not the same as actively trying to unload him. If their asking price is two first round picks it's highly unlikely to say the least especially when considering the huge extension he just signed. Call the Browns front office what you will I don't think they live in dream world they know realistically it's not doable.

[TXBRONC]

Cleveland is trippin

They're on month long bender if they truly believe that but I don't think they do.

[TXBRONC]

Bottom line for me is trying to win a championship. Anytime I hear "mortgaging the future" or anything of the sort when dealing with the NFL and being concerned with trading draft picks I always stop and think of all the draft picks each year who are busts.

This is possibly the best defense we've ever had and may have for quite some time. It's championship caliber. We need to be all in right now to win a Super Bowl. I'd rather go all in now and win a Super Bowl then suffer through a couple losing seasons with Brock and cap hell than another 12-4 first round playoff exit and then still maybe be 4-12 next year with Brock or someone else.

One Super Bowl win is worth a decade of mediocrity. Team chemistry is everything to winning a championship and it changes every year. This team could look completely different next year even if we don't trade for Thomas.

I'd trade our 1st rounder for Thomas in a heartbeat.

I disagree CH. There is mortgaging because it is more than just one pick. It's two first rounds picks I don't see how it would be worth the risk of losing someone like Von Miller who will be free agent iirc.

[UnderArmour]

Two first round picks is no deal. Throwing a battered Clady in along with a 4th and a 6th, sure. Joe Thomas is definitely worth two first round picks, but there's no way this team can or should risk parting with its 2017 first round pick to add a player mid season.

[Ravage!!!]

Two first round picks is no deal. Throwing a battered Clady in along with a 4th and a 6th, sure. Joe Thomas is definitely worth two first round picks, but there's no way this team can or should risk parting with its 2017 first round pick to add a player mid season.

Mid season of a championship run? you make it sound as though we would ONLY have him for the rest of this season. What first round pick would you expect to get that would be better...or as good...as Thomas is?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 12m

When #Broncos talked w #Browns on Thomas, it coincided w Sambrailo injury last month. Could restart? Anything possible. But price is high

[DenBronx]

One 1st round pick is worth a LT like Joe Thomas. Two 1st rounders and that's a no go.

I believe Browns would take a 1st and Clady. Sending Clady would help us with the cap too right or does it cause us to have dead money?

I bet the Browns buckle at the deadline. Curious of Joe Thomas thoughts on all of this too.

[weazel]

Rumor is they want a 1st rd pick

I heard the Broncos offered their 1st. IMO giving up a 1st rounder for a known commodity is a no brainer, the draft is a crap shoot.

[VonDoom]

One 1st round pick is worth a LT like Joe Thomas. Two 1st rounders and that's a no go.

I believe Browns would take a 1st and Clady. Sending Clady would help us with the cap too right or does it cause us to have dead money?

I bet the Browns buckle at the deadline. Curious of Joe Thomas thoughts on all of this too.

I know we've kicked around the idea of trading Clady before on this board, but I believe you can't trade someone on IR. Not sure though.

Schefter now says:

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 8m8 minutes ago

For all talk and speculation about potential trades for Cleveland, Browns not expected to make any major trades before today's deadline.

... so this might have just been a fun day of "what if" around here.

[DenBronx]

It all starts with a "what if" and speculation. If it goes through then it goes through. If not, then we have had a reason to post and dream of more protection for our QB.

I doubt Thomas is the only guy were looking at. Elway never sleeps.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Joe Thomas doesn't want to be traded from Browns

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000571162/article/joe-thomas-doesnt-want-to-be-traded-from-browns

article written yesterday

[weazel]

Sorry im not a average simpleton fan like you and many. And niether is john elway who clearly stated he will NOT mortgage the future under any circumstances. So you want to call elway ignorant? Bwahahah

correct, you are not the average simpleton.

[DenBronx]

Man fck Joe Thomas. Call up the Cowboys.

[Timmy!]

This deal is dead......nothing to see here.

[VonDoom]

It all starts with a "what if" and speculation. If it goes through then it goes through. If not, then we have had a reason to post and dream of more protection for our QB.

I doubt Thomas is the only guy were looking at. Elway never sleeps.

Oh, I agree. Speculating is fun. Gives us some good stuff to talk about mid-week.

[Cugel]

I doubt Thomas is the only guy were looking at. Elway never sleeps.

You mean like Rust?
:lol:

[Dzone]

We should have signed the murderer from LSU but Jerry beat us to it

[Cugel]

The end to the trade rumors about Joe Thomas, who is not going anywhere:


Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4h4 hours ago

To be specific, Browns were asking two 1st-round picks for OT Joe Thomas. They won't get that.

Well, no shit. TWO first rounders is just absurd. A 1st and Shaquil Barrett is bad enough. A first and a 3rd would be doable. I'd still counter with that, and see if they bite.


Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1h1 hour ago

For all talk and speculation about potential trades for Cleveland, Browns not expected to make any major trades before today's deadline.
300 retweets 287 likes

Why they bothered to dangle Thomas, and take offers is only explained by the Browns being a stupid, stupid organization. If you're not going to trade a player, then you simply don't dangle him as trade bait and PUBLICLY take offers for him. Because now you're stuck with him, only he knows you were trying to trade him. That doesn't make the player happy. At all. It's like a slap in the face.

If you're going to say "you're not really in our plans all that much" you better go ahead and pull the trigger. Otherwise, deny all rumors publicly so nobody is asking Thomas, "what have you heard about the trade." He's probably getting about 1000 text messages from concerned friends and former teammates, etc.

[Cugel]

In fact, the more I think about how imbecilic the Browns organization is, I can only shake my head. There was just ZERO point in asking for TWO first round picks for Thomas. They weren't remotely going to get that, so no trade was going to happen.

Well, if you don't really want to trade a player, then why in God's earth would you put out all this endless speculation and stir up interest? Either put out a reasonable demand that you might actually get or else publicly shut down speculation "we're not trading him."

This is the worst of all possible worlds for the Browns. Stir up a hornet's nest of media speculation, and not deny any of it. Have talks with every team in the league and make Thomas go through the uncertainty and unpleasantness of not knowing his fate. Make the player unhappy at the prospect of being traded, and then not trade him - in fact, make ridiculous trade demands.

Then wind up doing nothing, which given their demands was inevitable!

No wonder they're the Browns, perennial bottom dwellers, if that's how they run their organization.

Can you imagine John Elway operating like that? NO! If they wanted to trade a guy they'd trade him and the first you'd hear of it was when the deal was done - as happened this summer when they traded OL Manny Ramirez to Detroit. There were no public trade rumors about Ramirez, then he was gone and they announced it. That's how you handle things.

[MOtorboat]

The Browns can't control what teams inquire about a player, nor if they leak that to the media.

The price makes it clear the Browns weren't "dangling" him to anyone.

[Buff]

We should have signed the murderer from LSU but Jerry beat us to it

We should have called his agent's bluff and spent a draft pick on him. We had no chance at him as a UDFA as he wasn't going to a cold weather city and wanted to stay close to home.

[Buff]

In fact, the more I think about how imbecilic the Browns organization is, I can only shake my head. There was just ZERO point in asking for TWO first round picks for Thomas. They weren't remotely going to get that, so no trade was going to happen.

Well, if you don't really want to trade a player, then why in God's earth would you put out all this endless speculation and stir up interest? Either put out a reasonable demand that you might actually get or else publicly shut down speculation "we're not trading him."

This is the worst of all possible worlds for the Browns. Stir up a hornet's nest of media speculation, and not deny any of it. Have talks with every team in the league and make Thomas go through the uncertainty and unpleasantness of not knowing his fate. Make the player unhappy at the prospect of being traded, and then not trade him - in fact, make ridiculous trade demands.

Then wind up doing nothing, which given their demands was inevitable!

No wonder they're the Browns, perennial bottom dwellers, if that's how they run their organization.

Can you imagine John Elway operating like that? NO! If they wanted to trade a guy they'd trade him and the first you'd hear of it was when the deal was done - as happened this summer when they traded OL Manny Ramirez to Detroit. There were no public trade rumors about Ramirez, then he was gone and they announced it. That's how you handle things.

I feel like you are reading the situation incorrectly. The Browns didn't do anything wrong. People get way too spun up about business-as-usual happenings in the NFL.

We lose a LT to injury, so our diligent GM called around to see what it would cost to acquire a new LT. Weeks later, local reporter casually mentions that Elway has inquired about Joe Thomas. This gets picked up on twitter and takes on a life of its own - meanwhile, the only thing Cleveland did is field a phone call about one of its players. It's really not a big deal, and there are probably 20 other examples just like this for every 1 we hear about.

[Cugel]

The Browns can't control what teams inquire about a player, nor if they leak that to the media.

The price makes it clear the Browns weren't "dangling" him to anyone.

Yes they were. There was media speculation in the Cleveland media for over a week about trading a BUNCH of players. Where do you think that trade talk came from?

Answer: Local reporters talked with Browns insiders who told them that there were talks. That story started spreading "Browns are in trade talks..."

That's why the Broncos were interested. Everybody in the league front offices were then talking about "fire sales" of Browns players and the Broncos started making an offer. And the media in other cities started picking up the rumors. Those rumors began inside the Browns organization last week. You don't just randomly call teams and make offers for players you have zero reason to think they want to trade. Just a waste of everybody's time and the other team gets irritated you bothered to call them up and waste their time. "Hello San Diego, what would it take to interest you in trading Phillip Rivers?" Answer: "WTF?? Are you seriously asking me that?"

The only logical thing to do is: 1) decide you are willing to trade a player, and then set a reasonable market price that you might actually get, or 2) decide that you don't want to trade the player, in which case you tell everybody "No, we're not trading him."

There's just no point in making an impossible asking price like 2 #1 picks, everybody in the world knows you won't get. That accomplishes nothing, but the fact that you're entertaining offers fuels speculation, which harms your team and relations with the player.

Do I really need to explain this simple employee relations stuff? Thomas doesn't want to be traded, and he's unhappy about the trade talk. They could have shut down the speculation at any point by issuing a statement to the media "we ain't trading Joe Thomas." End speculation. They didn't do that because they're stupid. That's all.

Making an impossible demand is the exact equivalent of refusing to trade him. Except that the player is now unhappy.

[Buff]

Yes they were. There was media speculation in the Cleveland media for over a week about trading a BUNCH of players. Where do you think that trade talk came from?

Answer: Local reporters talked with Browns insiders who told them that there were talks. That's why the Broncos were interested. Everybody in the league front offices were then talking about "fire sales" of Browns players. And the media in other cities started picking up the rumors. Those rumors began inside the Browns organization last week.

The only logical thing to do is: 1) decide you are willing to trade a player, and then set a reasonable market price that you might actually get, or 2) decide that you don't want to trade the player, in which case you tell everybody "No, we're not trading him."

There's just no point in making an impossible asking price like 2 #1 picks, everybody in the world knows you won't get. That accomplishes nothing, but the fact that you're entertaining offers fuels speculation, which harms your team and relations with the player.

Do I really need to explain this simple employee relations stuff? Thomas doesn't want to be traded, and he's unhappy about the trade talk. They could have shut down the speculation at any point by issuing a statement to the media "we ain't trading Joe Thomas." End speculation. They didn't do that because they're stupid. That's all.

But it's Joe Thomas. Even he has to understand the situation - like, this is our franchise player - our team is horrendous so we will trade him for the right offer... But we're not trying to unload him for under market value. I think that's reasonable.

[VonDoom]

Not dead yet ...

Dianna Marie Russini ‏@diannaESPN 1m1 minute ago

Browns & Broncos rushing to beat the NFL trade deadline that will send LT Joe Thomas & a 4th pick in '16 to Denver for a 1st/2nd in '16

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m3 minutes ago

Broncos racing to rework contracts to create cap room at last minute...oh boy....

[DenBronx]

Not dead yet ...

Dianna Marie Russini ‏@diannaESPN 1m1 minute ago

Browns & Broncos rushing to beat the NFL trade deadline that will send LT Joe Thomas & a 4th pick in '16 to Denver for a 1st/2nd in '16

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m3 minutes ago

Broncos racing to rework contracts to create cap room at last minute...oh boy....

Saw that. Yeah id just pull the trigger and not look back. We need Thomas now. Best LT in the game. Heck...slide Clady over to RT next year and our OL looks a helllll of alot better.

[DenBronx]

Draft picks are a crap shoot. We get a proven beast at LT for a fair cap price and locked up for several years.

[VonDoom]

Pettine is being quoted on Twitter as saying they made no moves and the deadline has passed. So maybe it is dead after all.

[VonDoom]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m2 minutes ago

A potential Joe-Thomas-to-Denver deal that both sides were working on up until the deadline did not get completed, per league sources.

[G_Money]

Adam SchefterVerified account
‏@AdamSchefter
A potential Joe-Thomas-to-Denver deal that both sides were working on up until the deadline did not get completed, per league sources.

Well that sucks. If he was available you should have gotten him. If haggling over a 4th rounder in return messes up the deal, then don't haggle. The player involved is more important. I would have thought the Dumervil fiasco would have made that point clear: waiting for the last second usually means nothing happens instead of something.

This would have been a very good something.

[DenBronx]

Nevermind. Mike Pettine said Browns made no moves before the trade deadline. Thomas stays a Brown.

Dammit.

[chazoe60]

That sux

[Timmy!]

Its not happening.

[Cugel]

I feel like you are reading the situation incorrectly. The Browns didn't do anything wrong. People get way too spun up about business-as-usual happenings in the NFL.

We lose a LT to injury, so our diligent GM called around to see what it would cost to acquire a new LT. Weeks later, local reporter casually mentions that Elway has inquired about Joe Thomas. This gets picked up on twitter and takes on a life of its own - meanwhile, the only thing Cleveland did is field a phone call about one of its players. It's really not a big deal, and there are probably 20 other examples just like this for every 1 we hear about.

Except that that is NOT what happened at all. By the time this blows all over the Denver media the speculation has been fueled by Browns insiders to their local media for over a week.

From NFL.com reporters:


NFL.com: Q (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000572222/article/browns-want-more-than-firstrounder-for-joe-thomas): "Tell us about the moving and shaking in the Browns organization."

Albert Greer (Ohio reporter): "Well, speaking to rival executives, I can tell you that the signal the Browns have put out to other teams is 'we're open for business, so make us an offer." And that includes almost everyone on the Browns roster. The problem to this point is that the asking price is just too high, but we've heard the names, Joe Thomas, C Alex Mack, their former first round picks, LB Barkevious Mingo, Paul Kruger. There are other names obviously, like [ILB] Joe Hayden. So, the Browns are talking calls on just about everybody at this point."

They were not just shopping players - they were basically shopping their entire ROSTER. They want to blow up their roster and start over with draft picks and young players (like Shaq Barrett).

We know this because their media was reporting it for a while now. There's also been reports in their media about talks about trading their LB Barkevious Mingo, and C Alex Mack, you just never heard about that because Denver was not involved in those talks.

[Cugel]

Apparently, the Broncos really tried HARD to land Joe Thomas. They were in negotiations right up to the deadline a few minutes ago (2 PM Denver time).


Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4m4 minutes ago

A potential Joe-Thomas-to-Denver deal that both sides were working on up until the deadline did not get completed, per league sources.

So, this was a live possibility, but the Browns just wouldn't come down off their demands enough for the deal to get done in time. Typical Browns action.

So, they shop everybody, create massive turmoil on their team, and wind up trading nobody. Everybody's upset and they get nothing out of it.

[DenBronx]

I would have loved that trade but Browns wanted too much. Elway likes bargains.

[VonDoom]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2m2 minutes ago

My understand of the Joe Thomas talks between #Broncos & #Browns is they couldn’t agree on compensation. Could’ve made it work in time.

[G_Money]

Ian RapoportVerified account ‏@RapSheet 2m2 minutes ago
My understand of the Joe Thomas talks between #Broncos & #Browns is they couldn’t agree on compensation. Could’ve made it work in time.

So it's an us problem. Shoulda paid a little more and won a Super Bowl, Elway.

[Timmy!]

Meh. We roll with the 3 tackles we have. I'm happy with VD for peanuts.

[BroncoJoe]

Except that that is NOT what happened at all. By the time this blows all over the Denver media the speculation has been fueled by Browns insiders to their local media for over a week.

From NFL.com reporters:


They were shopping players. We know this because their media was reporting it for a while now. There's also been reports in their media about talks about trading their LB Barkevious Mingo, and C Alex Mack, you just never heard about that because Denver was not involved in those talks.

They didn't move anyone. Forget speculation and accept reality.

[chazoe60]

Meh. We roll with the 3 tackles we have. I'm happy with VD for peanuts.

You can get VD from eating peanuts?

[NightTrainLayne]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m2 minutes ago

A potential Joe-Thomas-to-Denver deal that both sides were working on up until the deadline did not get completed, per league sources.


1ytCEuuW2_A

[VonDoom]

Well that sucks. If he was available you should have gotten him. If haggling over a 4th rounder in return messes up the deal, then don't haggle. The player involved is more important. I would have thought the Dumervil fiasco would have made that point clear: waiting for the last second usually means nothing happens instead of something.

This would have been a very good something.

We really have no idea what they were "haggling" over, only what was being reported on Twitter. Who knows how much of that was true? Plus, they didn't wait till the deadline - they were talking for weeks but couldn't agree. As it got closer, both sides obviously wanted to keep trying to get it to work and they couldn't agree. Shit happens. If Elway didn't feel comfortable with the deal, I'm not going to kill him for it.

[DenBronx]

Can't blame Elway for trying though. He's aggressive and I like that.

[Buff]

Except that that is NOT what happened at all. By the time this blows all over the Denver media the speculation has been fueled by Browns insiders to their local media for over a week.

From NFL.com reporters:


They were shopping players. We know this because their media was reporting it for a while now. There's also been reports in their media about talks about trading their LB Barkevious Mingo, and C Alex Mack, you just never heard about that because Denver was not involved in those talks.

Fair enough - I think we're arguing semantics. I think you can let teams know that you're open for business without "shopping" a player... To me - "shopping a player" is when a team has decided to move on from a player, and they are simply trying to get the best deal available. Cleveland sounds content to hang onto their guys, but wants teams to know that they'll listen... Which, again, I don't see any problem with doing that. I think any professional athlete knows that comes with the territory - which is different than McDaniels "shopping" Cutler after being here for 5 minutes.

[Timmy!]

You can get VD from eating peanuts?

At your house maybe?

[Valar Morghulis]

I really regret sacrificing my last child now

[G_Money]

We'd best hope there are no more tackle injuries from here out. Carry on, Broncos.

[DenBronx]

We'd best hope there are no more tackle injuries from here out. Carry on, Broncos.

Yeah not only are we thin but we are below average in protecting the QB. But they did good against GB so there's that.

[Timmy!]

We'd best hope there are no more tackle injuries from here out. Carry on, Broncos.

We could (maybe?????) survive one since we have Polumbus (insert hysterical laughter here) playing swing. If things got really shitty we could kick Vasquez to RT (*gag*) and roll with Garcia and Mathis at G.

[DenBronx]

Someone take this thread behind the barn and shoot it

[Cugel]

We could (maybe?????) survive one since we have Polumbus (insert hysterical laughter here) playing swing. If things got really shitty we could kick Vasquez to RT (*gag*) and roll with Garcia and Mathis at G.

That didn't work at all last year. It was a hot mess. Louis Vasquez is not a T. Adam Gase might be dumb enough to do that but Kubiak isn't.

They are going to roll with LT Tyler Polumbus (*urfed in my mouth a bit there*) or Ryan Harris and RT Michael Schofield.

In case of catastrophe, they always have T Paul Cornick.

[VonDoom]

Yeah not only are we thin but we are below average in protecting the QB. But they did good against GB so there's that.

They've played better the last two weeks, so maybe it wasn't quite the emergency that it would have been a month ago. Thomas would be an upgrade on basically any LT in the league but Elway probably didn't want to sell out two high picks in this draft to do it. If Manning had been sacked four times in this last game, maybe that price would have been worth it to him.

[Buff]

We'd best hope there are no more tackle injuries from here out. Carry on, Broncos.

Have you ever seen the Louis CK bit about how everything is amazing and nobody is happy? This situation reminded me of that - like, damn our GM for only getting us a pro bowl TE for nothing and not also a superstar LT!

"You're sitting in a chair in the sky!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E

[VonDoom]

In case of catastrophe, they always have T Paul Cornick.

Not anymore. He went to the Bears, then failed a physical and has been a street FA ever since.

[Buff]

I really regret sacrificing my last child now

Yeah, in retrospect, that was not as effective as we might have hoped.

[VonDoom]

Have you ever seen the Louis CK bit about how everything is amazing and nobody is happy? This situation reminded me of that - like, damn our GM for only getting us a pro bowl TE for nothing and not also a superstar LT!

"You're sitting in a chair in the sky!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E

Why can't we have the best player from every team? Damn you, Elway!

[Cugel]

Fair enough - I think we're arguing semantics. I think you can let teams know that you're open for business without "shopping" a player... To me - "shopping a player" is when a team has decided to move on from a player, and they are simply trying to get the best deal available. Cleveland sounds content to hang onto their guys, but wants teams to know that they'll listen... Which, again, I don't see any problem with doing that. I think any professional athlete knows that comes with the territory - which is different than McDaniels "shopping" Cutler after being here for 5 minutes.

You don't see any problems with a team shopping their entire roster and then trading nobody? Seriously?

What do you suppose the Browns players are saying to each other today? What are they telling their agents? "This off-season, I don't care how you do it, but get me the hell out of here."

Which I suppose is business as usual in Cleveland every year. So, perhaps no different than normal. But, if you're a Browns player, your team spirit has to be lower than Whale Shit right about now.

[Timmy!]

That didn't work at all last year. It was a hot mess. Louis Vasquez is not a T. Adam Gase might be dumb enough to do that but Kubiak isn't.

They are going to roll with LT Tyler Polumbus (*urfed in my mouth a bit there*) or Ryan Harris and RT Michael Schofield.

In case of catastrophe, they always have T Paul Cornick.

Cornick is probably working as a bouncer somewhere.

Yes....hence my "really shitty" comment, as in if we were to somehow to lose 2 outta the 3 "tackles" we have left. Regardless, we good, let's roll.

[VonDoom]

You don't see any problems with a team shopping their entire roster and then trading nobody? Seriously?

What do you suppose the Browns players are saying to each other today? What are they telling their agents? "This off-season, I don't care how you do it, but get me the hell out of here."

Which I suppose is business as usual in Cleveland every year. So, perhaps no different than normal.

Yet Mack didn't want to waive his no trade clause and Thomas was quoted multiple times as saying he wanted to stay in Cleveland. He could have gotten a big contract anywhere after his rookie deal and he stuck with them. They haven't really been close to good this whole time.

[BroncoJoe]

Shopping their entire roster. LOL. Delusional.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We could (maybe?????) survive one since we have Polumbus (insert hysterical laughter here) playing swing. If things got really shitty we could kick Vasquez to RT (*gag*) and roll with Garcia and Mathis at G.

Stop, you're messing with my happy place.

[Cugel]

Not anymore. He went to the Bears, then failed a physical and has been a street FA ever since.

Oh, sorry about that mis-information. I thought he was still on the active roster. Oh, well, I suppose they can always call him out of his job in a phone sales kiosk in case of emergency.

[MOtorboat]

You don't see any problems with a team shopping their entire roster and then trading nobody? Seriously?

What do you suppose the Browns players are saying to each other today? What are they telling their agents? "This off-season, I don't care how you do it, but get me the hell out of here."

Which I suppose is business as usual in Cleveland every year. So, perhaps no different than normal. But, if you're a Browns player, your team spirit has to be lower than Whale Shit right about now.

No. It's a business.

[G_Money]

I understand the hesitation if Thomas was a free agent after this year, but he's under a reasonable-for-a-monster-tackle contract for 3 more years. If the holdup was the 2nd rounder, the last five Broncos 2nd rounders: Latimer, Ball, Wolfe, Osweiler, Moore. I like Wolfe, but seriously PLEASE take that pick away from us for an All-Pro.

Ah well. I didn't think it would happen, and it came much closer than I thought it could. Would have been perfect, though.

[Cugel]

Shopping their entire roster. LOL. Delusional.

No, it's just normal Cleveland Browns behaviour. Every few years blow up the team and start over. Then 3 or 4 years later, rinse and repeat. And then wonder why you never get a whiff of the playoffs. Kind of like the Colorado Rockies of the NFL.

[Cugel]

No. It's a business.

It's a business if they actually trade you. If they TRY and trade you, and fail, then you're still stuck on the roster knowing they have zero confidence in you and don't really want you around. You know that they are likely to want to get rid of you next off-season.

You start trying to get some positive game film down so that you can find another job in FA.

What do you as a worker do, if a new boss comes in and threatens to fire everybody. Get to work on your resume and call your contacts. "Remember what you said about possibly having an opening in your firm? Well, I might not be sticking around here for much longer, so I wondered if there's anything going on with your company?"

It stops being about the team and starts being "I'm looking out for #1 and #1 ain't you! You' ain't even #2!" Why would a player play hurt? Might hurt his hopes of finding another job.

Just like Julius Thomas last year when the Broncos were convinced he was unwilling to play hurt because it might hurt his chances of landing a big FA contract.

Only in Cleveland, it's the entire team that feels this way, not just 1 guy.

The only way this makes sense to me is if they are TRYING to tank the season in hopes of getting the #1 overall pick and selecting a franchise QB.

Except teams that do that normally fire their head coach and GM.

"Suck for Luck" didn't work out all that great for Bill Polian and Jim Caldwell. They got fired.

[DenBronx]

I understand the hesitation if Thomas was a free agent after this year, but he's under a reasonable-for-a-monster-tackle contract for 3 more years. If the holdup was the 2nd rounder, the last five Broncos 2nd rounders: Latimer, Ball, Wolfe, Osweiler, Moore. I like Wolfe, but seriously PLEASE take that pick away from us for an All-Pro.

Ah well. I didn't think it would happen, and it came much closer than I thought it could. Would have been perfect, though.


Not going to lie. I'm a little bummed out we couldn't do a deal.

[Cugel]

Not going to lie. I'm a little bummed out we couldn't do a deal.

I'm especially bummed if Elway was really in negotiations right up till the deadline. Sounds like this was a lot more than just the one conversation:


Elway: "Hi there Cleveland Browns. We heard you were shopping Joe Thomas and we might be interested. What would it take for you to trade him."

Browns: "2 #1's and Shaquil Barrett."

Elway: "Holy shit! You've got to be high!" [click]

[BroncoJoe]

I understand the hesitation if Thomas was a free agent after this year, but he's under a reasonable-for-a-monster-tackle contract for 3 more years. If the holdup was the 2nd rounder, the last five Broncos 2nd rounders: Latimer, Ball, Wolfe, Osweiler, Moore. I like Wolfe, but seriously PLEASE take that pick away from us for an All-Pro.

Ah well. I didn't think it would happen, and it came much closer than I thought it could. Would have been perfect, though.

They only had just over $7 million before they brought Davis in. I don't know if they could have fit Thomas under the cap without cutting someone. I imagine that was the biggest problem - if we can even believe the reports coming out.

[tomjonesrocks]

Have to say I'm a little surprised this didn't get done right before the wire.

[G_Money]

We only had just over $7 million before we brought Davis in. I don't know if we could have fit Thomas under the cap without cutting someone. I imagine that was the biggest problem - if we can even believe the reports coming out.

Yeah, I don't know how much restructuring they were gonna be able to do in 20 minutes. The logistics seemed unmanageable, but Elway and the Browns were wrestling with it until the end. There are too many reports for it to be completely nothing. Now the denials will hit about how close Joe Thomas was or wasn't to being traded. The Browns don't want to make him feel unloved, I'm sure. Any MORE unloved, anyway. Man, that's a terrible organization.

I'm thankful every day for Bowlen and now Elway having the reins here and the will to try for championships instead of pratfalls.

[VonDoom]

One rumor was the Browns wanted a first and a second, which I wouldn't have done. However ...

Dianna Marie Russini ‏@diannaESPN 41m41 minutes ago

I'm told Denver was offering a 5th rounder but Cleveland wanted a 3rd rounder...they ran out of time. #Browns #Broncos

... if it was a one and a three? I would've jumped on that. Again, hard to say if this is true, though.

[BroncoJoe]

It's really not that hard to understand. Thomas' salary is $8.8 million. Prorated signing bonus adds $1.2 million, but I'm not sure if that transfers during a trade...

We had less than $7 million in cap space. I really don't think it was picks. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that the Broncos just couldn't work out the cap.

[VonDoom]

It's really not that hard to understand. Thomas' salary is $8.8 million. Prorated signing bonus adds $1.2 million, but I'm not sure if that transfers during a trade...

We had less than $7 million in cap space. I really don't think it was picks. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that the Broncos just couldn't work out the cap.

There are conflicting reports about the compensation but every report I've seen said the hold up was compensation, not time or cap issues. Either way, it's over now so we move on with what we have

[weazel]

the local sports radio station just said the trade was made!


...then quickly followed that up with "sorry, we made a mistake."

[DenBronx]

It's really not that hard to understand. Thomas' salary is $8.8 million. Prorated signing bonus adds $1.2 million, but I'm not sure if that transfers during a trade...

We had less than $7 million in cap space. I really don't think it was picks. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that the Broncos just couldn't work out the cap.

I read that his balance this year was around 4.4 mill. Browns had already paid a huge chunk for this year. We would have been fine.

[BroncoJoe]

I read that his balance this year was around 4.4 mill. Browns had already paid a huge chunk for this year. We would have been fine.

7995

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-thomas/

[VonDoom]

7995

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-thomas/

His base salary was 8.8 million, meaning the prorated portion would have been 4.4, as Bronx said. Signing bonus would have been irrelevant

[BroncoJoe]

His base salary was 8.8 million, meaning the prorated portion would have been 4.4, as Bronx said. Signing bonus would have been irrelevant

I see what you're saying - because this year is nearly 1/2 over. Gotcha.

[DenBronx]

His base salary was 8.8 million, meaning the prorated portion would have been 4.4, as Bronx said. Signing bonus would have been irrelevant

I see what you're saying - because this year is nearly 1/2 over. Gotcha.


Joe, if there is one lesson to learn here it's Bronx is always right. Just ask King.

[UnderArmour]

7995

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-thomas/

We are halfway through the season, so the poster was correct. Cleveland paid $4.4 million to him already, a team acquiring him would have owed the other $4.4 million. It sucks we couldn't get him by the clock, but it made no sense for the Browns to trade the best player in recent franchise history when he's done nothing but continue to play at an All Pro level. Elway was smart to keep the extra 2017 first it would have taken. Harris is going to have to step it up though.

[Ravage!!!]

I got my hopes up, just a bit, that this deal would actually get done. Apparently the compensations couldn't be worked out. I ahve to say, that sucks.

[BroncoJoe]

Joe, if there is one lesson to learn here it's Bronx is always right. Just ask King.

Are you sure you want me to ask King that question?

[DenBronx]

Joe, if there is one lesson to learn here it's Bronx is always right. Just ask King.

Are you sure you want me to ask King that question?

He knows already. He's my bitch but you can be my side piece too.

[silkamilkamonico]

Browns wanted way too much for that dude. Good grief.

[TXBRONC]

One 1st round pick is worth a LT like Joe Thomas. Two 1st rounders and that's a no go.

I believe Browns would take a 1st and Clady. Sending Clady would help us with the cap too right or does it cause us to have dead money?

I bet the Browns buckle at the deadline. Curious of Joe Thomas thoughts on all of this too.

How would it help if I'm not mistaken Joe Thomas' contract is in the same range as Clady's?

[VonDoom]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 1h1 hour ago

A big reason the Joe Thomas-to-#Broncos deal broke down: A holdup on converting remaining salary for ’16 & ’17 into guarantees for security

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 41m41 minutes ago

Browns and Broncos agreed on Broncos 1st rd pick in 2017. Not '16. Other high-round pick swap that busted deal was in '16. #9news #9sports

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 15m15 minutes ago

1st rd pick in 2017 rather than '16 is huge. Broncos are picking end of 1st rd in '16. '17 is uncertain. http://on9news.tv/1MxaCer via @9News

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 12m12 minutes ago

Say P. Manning retires after season and Broncos tank in '16. Two top QBs avail in top of '17 1st rd. Broncos can't pick cuz Browns have it

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 10m10 minutes ago

So John Elway tried to get last piece for SB now but didn't want to leave Broncos in bad spot after this year. #9news #9sports #worthatry

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

John Freakin Elway..I love that man.

[NightTerror218]

Cap would have taken huge hit with Joe on the team. Paying 2 top LT and cutting Clady would leave huge dead money.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Cap would have taken huge hit with Joe on the team. Paying 2 top LT and cutting Clady would leave huge dead money.

I don't think the cap was the issue, so much. What Cleveland wanted was the stopping point.

[DenBronx]

John Freakin Elway..I love that man.


He's a GM genius.

[TXBRONC]

Ian RapoportVerified account ‏@RapSheet 2m2 minutes ago
My understand of the Joe Thomas talks between #Broncos & #Browns is they couldn’t agree on compensation. Could’ve made it work in time.

So it's an us problem. Shoulda paid a little more and won a Super Bowl, Elway.

Getting Joe Thomas would have come with no guarantees of a Super Bowl victory for the Broncos.

[TXBRONC]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 1h1 hour ago

A big reason the Joe Thomas-to-#Broncos deal broke down: A holdup on converting remaining salary for ’16 & ’17 into guarantees for security

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 41m41 minutes ago

Browns and Broncos agreed on Broncos 1st rd pick in 2017. Not '16. Other high-round pick swap that busted deal was in '16. #9news #9sports

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 15m15 minutes ago

1st rd pick in 2017 rather than '16 is huge. Broncos are picking end of 1st rd in '16. '17 is uncertain. http://on9news.tv/1MxaCer via @9News

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 12m12 minutes ago

Say P. Manning retires after season and Broncos tank in '16. Two top QBs avail in top of '17 1st rd. Broncos can't pick cuz Browns have it

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 10m10 minutes ago

So John Elway tried to get last piece for SB now but didn't want to leave Broncos in bad spot after this year. #9news #9sports #worthatry

That's the smart thing to do. Taking a bad deal is still a bad deal regardless who the player is.

[Joel]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 15m15 minutes ago

1st rd pick in 2017 rather than '16 is huge. Broncos are picking end of 1st rd in '16. '17 is uncertain. http://on9news.tv/1MxaCer via @9News

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 12m12 minutes ago

Say P. Manning retires after season and Broncos tank in '16. Two top QBs avail in top of '17 1st rd. Broncos can't pick cuz Browns have it

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 10m10 minutes ago

So John Elway tried to get last piece for SB now but didn't want to leave Broncos in bad spot after this year. #9news #9sports #worthatry
This is where I am: With a three game division lead halfway through the season, Cugel's right our NEXT 1st rounder will be pretty late (a big reason I don't like contenders going Best Player Left.) A bad team accepting only a contenders 1st pick plus a midround pick for a 30-year-old All Pro would be stupid. BUT giving up next years #21-32 pick AND a 2017 1st rounder of UNKNOWN value, when our HoF QB's almost certain to retire after this season and his backup's never started, would also be stupid. So no deal.


Cap would have taken huge hit with Joe on the team. Paying 2 top LT and cutting Clady would leave huge dead money.

If I read Spotrac right, Clady got nearly all his guaranteed cash as a first year $10 million roster bonus; his dead cap money next year would only be the remaining two years of his $600 thousand/yr signing bonus, or $1.2 million. Another reason he's probably gone unless he restructures: Not only is his odometer rolling over after THREE serious injuries to ONE leg, but we can free $9 million of cap space releasing him before June. Could be Faxgate all over again, unless we just decide it's not worth the hassle.

Anyway, would've LOVED to have Thomas through 2018 (cutting Clady would've freed the space to pay him, though how we'd pay Miller and the rest I don't know) and wouldn't have minded giving up a low 1st round pick even with a backup OLB on a team with 4 stellar and 1 good one, but giving up our next 1st AND ANOTHER we may need if Oz is a bust is too much. And moot now.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- In the end, the Cleveland Browns were not going to part with eight-time Pro Bowl selection Joe Thomas without an offer that made it worthwhile to do so, and the Denver Broncos, Super Bowl aspirations or not, were not going to put themselves in a draft or salary cap bind to make the deal.

The two teams had discussions leading up to, and just before, Tuesday's trade deadline about the Browns left tackle, but neither team felt good enough about the offers on the table to close the deal.

Multiple sources confirmed Tuesday afternoon, just after the deadline had passed without a deal, that the Browns had asked for as much as two first-round picks from the Broncos at one point and that early Tuesday afternoon, Mountain time, the two sides were closing in on a package that included Thomas and a Browns fourth-round pick in exchange for the Broncos' first- and second-round picks in the 2016 draft but that the Browns also wanted to include the Broncos' 2016 third-round pick.

At that point no deal was made, and the 7-0 Broncos will continue to rotate Ryan Harris and Tyler Polumbus at left tackle while Thomas will continue to be one of the Browns' foundation players.

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14046758/cleveland-browns-denver-broncos-agree-joe-thomas-trade

The rest of the article contains some interesting stuff in it.

[NightTerror218]

I don't think the cap was the issue, so much. What Cleveland wanted was the stopping point.

That was part of the issue was Joe wanted 2016 and 2017 all guaranteed

[tomjonesrocks]

Hope that was worth it Browns. Seems like both Thomas and the Browns were shooting for the moon.

**** em.

[Yashahla17]

Im glad this trade didnt happen. Im willing to,give clady one more shot next year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2h

#Broncos Elway possesses unique skillset in trades. Bold, impulsive, yet remains disciplined. So close on Thomas, yet balked at final price

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2h

#Broncos Elway possesses unique skillset in trades. Bold, impulsive, yet remains disciplined. So close on Thomas, yet balked at final price

The years of experience in business negotiations have really paid off.

[Simple Jaded]

Im glad this trade didnt happen. Im willing to,give clady one more shot next year.

Make the trade and give Clady a shot at RT, Schofield and Sambrailo at G's.

[Dzone]

We can get a lombardi without J Thomas. Manning didnt get sacked sunday so this line can get it done all the way to sb50

[Yashahla17]

Make the trade and give Clady a shot at RT, Schofield and Sambrailo at G's.

Nah clady comes back to his elite self next year. Sambrello and schofield battle for RT. Everyone wins and we keep our pick.

[DenBronx]

Make the trade and give Clady a shot at RT, Schofield and Sambrailo at G's.

Nah clady comes back to his elite self next year. Sambrello and schofield battle for RT. Everyone wins and we keep our pick.

Nah next year you quit posting here and the forums get back to greatness. Everyone wins and we keep our sanity.

[Yashahla17]

Okay L.

[Joel]

We can get a lombardi without J Thomas. Manning didnt get sacked sunday so this line can get it done all the way to sb50
Stumbled across this stat when we switched places with GB in ESPNs version of meaningless power rankings: We ended their streak of 42 games with a sack.

I don't want to read too much into one game, especially fresh off the bye and at home with all the emotion of Mr. Bowlens induction and inspiration of the returning champions, but that was a darned impressive win. Follow it with a consecutive solid performance against a very vulnerable one-dimensional Colts team in what will likely be an emotional road game, and we start looking very Super Bowlesque. Pity the Cheatriots schedule is so pitifully soft we're probably the only team that CAN beat them; homefield may require 16-0.

[Cugel]

Stumbled across this stat when we switched places with GB in ESPNs version of meaningless power rankings: We ended their streak of 42 games with a sack.

I don't want to read too much into one game, especially fresh off the bye and at home with all the emotion of Mr. Bowlens induction and inspiration of the returning champions, but that was a darned impressive win. Follow it with a consecutive solid performance against a very vulnerable one-dimensional Colts team in what will likely be an emotional road game, and we start looking very Super Bowlesque. Pity the Cheatriots schedule is so pitifully soft we're probably the only team that CAN beat them; homefield may require 16-0.

I keep remembering the SB. Chris Clark was fine as a replacement for Clady until then.

[TimHippo]

Okay L.

Yashi, twerk it!

[Yashahla17]

What is wrong with you guy?

[Joel]

I keep remembering the SB. Chris Clark was fine as a replacement for Clady until then.
NO, he was NOT: He gave up strip-sacks in THREE STRAIGHT GAMES by MIDSEASON; the first was our last trip to Indy, and our strip-sack-safety on Rodgers was eerily reminiscent of it, so I don't understand how any veteran line critic could have forgotten, let alone ignored those timely reminders. Each of those strip-sacks cost points, btw:

Indy got a safety and short field, quickly adding a TD: 9 pts in a game we lost by 6.

Washington got the ball at our 19, quickly adding a TD: 7 tie-breaking points that began a 14 pt run to lead 21-7, forcing us to convert TWO 4th downs to say in a game against A 3-13 TEAM IN OUR HOUSE!

San Diego got the ball at our 11, quickly adding a TD: 7 pts beginning a comeback from 28-6, nearly forcing OT before our D FINALLY made a stop to preserve 28-20.

Now, imagine ALL those games were on the road instead of just the lone loss. That was right about this time of year, too, a month after Clark took over (so no first-game jitters) but THREE months before the SB. And those are just the plays that stuck in my mind because they were SO bad and SO costly. Chris Clark didn't just suck in the SB: His consistently bad play just got a global spotlight there. I hoped the less demanding RT job might salvage him, but... no.... :(

[Simple Jaded]

Y'all act like Strip-sacks are so bad.

[TXBRONC]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2h

#Broncos Elway possesses unique skillset in trades. Bold, impulsive, yet remains disciplined. So close on Thomas, yet balked at final price

He was suppose be reckless Carol because getting Joe Thomas at any cost means the Broncos win the Super Bowl.

[Joel]

He was suppose be reckless Carol because getting Joe Thomas at any cost means the Broncos win the Super Bowl.
It really doesn't. Certainly improves our chances (if he can be worked into the lineup in time, without disrupting the fragile chemistry that only began developing two games ago.) But there are no guarantees in life, certainly not that one, so let's not pretend Elway refused anything close to a sure thing just because he wanted a 5th back instead of a 3rd. If we DIDN'T win a SB with Thomas and Oz bombed, people would call Elway an idiot for giving up a high 1st rounder in 2017 when we desperately needed a QB.

MOST of this roster should be around for a while; it'd be nice to have a shot at winning a SB in the foreseeable future if we DON'T do it this year.

[TimHippo]

It really doesn't. Certainly improves our chances (if he can be worked into the lineup in time, without disrupting the fragile chemistry that only began developing two games ago.) But there are no guarantees in life, certainly not that one, so let's not pretend Elway refused anything close to a sure thing just because he wanted a 5th back instead of a 3rd. If we DIDN'T win a SB with Thomas and Oz bombed, people would call Elway an idiot for giving up a high 1st rounder in 2017 when we desperately needed a QB.

MOST of this roster should be around for a while; it'd be nice to have a shot at winning a SB in the foreseeable future if we DON'T do it this year.

I just talked about this in the other thread. This indicates to me that Elway knows that Osweiler is not the answer and is saving up money to bring in Brees, Stafford etc next year.

[Simple Jaded]

I just talked about this in the other thread. This indicates to me that Elway knows that Osweiler is not the answer and is saving up money to bring in Brees, Stafford etc next year.

Ok, so, Elway went through all the brain damage involved in trading for an All Pro talent clear up to the deadline only to decide against finalizing the deal because. . .he knows Osweiler is not the answer and wants to save money for a QB that YOU deem worthy?

Is that basically what this indicates to you?

[chazoe60]

I just talked about this in the other thread. This indicates to me that Elway knows that Osweiler is not the answer and is saving up money to bring in Brees, Stafford etc next year.


:laugh::laugh: you ******* Tebowites and your half cocked ideas.

[Joel]

I just talked about this in the other thread. This indicates to me that Elway knows that Osweiler is not the answer and is saving up money to bring in Brees, Stafford etc next year.
As noted in the other thread, it could be (and, IMHO, probably is) more a matter of contingencies; not painting ourselves into a corner with or without Oz.

If Elway was sure (or reasonably so) Oz is a bust, I doubt he asks Manning to take a $4 million paycut, because that's just another of countless reasons to retire:

1) He's a Gulf Coast native playing in the frigid Rockies 1000 miles from a beach.

2) He's faced growing fan and media choruses calling him washed up since the middle of last year.

3) He actually IS old for a QB; Elway was retired by now, and there's a very short list of 40-year-old starting QBs (the list of GOOD ones is pretty much "Favre.")

4) He's had 4 spinal surgeries, one of which fused two vertebræ, limiting his range of neck motion, and may or may not ever regain feeling in his fingertips.

5) Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy; one article at the start of the year publicly urged him to retire before even seeing him play again.

6) He's played hurt the last half of the last two seasons because

7) Elway's NEVER upgraded ANY of his linemen till AFTER they left despite :censored:ING WELL KNOWING BETTER AFTER CRAP PROTECTION AND RUN SUPPORT EARNED HIM THREE SUPER BLOWOUTS BUT GOOD BLOCKING COMPLETELY INVERTED HIS LEGACY BY LETTING HIM RIDE OFF INTO THE SUNSET A REPEAT CHAMPION.

Seriously, he really sold Manning a pig in a poke here, and that's GOT to rankle a lot; I can't believe Elway would give him MORE reason to retire now without a decent Plan B. Yeah, I know what he said, but that was 4 years ago—when he spent a mid-2nd rounder on a QB ANYWAY, just in case.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect a draft pick and/or a decent FA (but probably just the FA, because the other doesn't just make Oz "compete" in camp, it tells him to put up or get out NOW; also, we need linemen, and picking the freaking 9th or 10th OT in a draft AGAIN won't find a starting LT.)

That's presuming we re-sign Oz, if not, all bets are off, but it's hard to imagine keeping him around 4 seasons only to let him walk sight unseen and take whatever we can find on the FA market. Again, divide eggs between baskets, even if it means yet another QB controversy and billboard talk the instant the new starter struggles.

[BroncoJoe]

Dude didn't want to leave Cleveland. Probably a blessing in disguise.


In what is either an admirable display of loyalty or a classic case of Stockholm syndrome, Browns left tackle Joe Thomas said he would have been “crushed” if he had been traded to the Broncos last week.

“Certainly I would have been really crushed being traded and leaving all these guys that you work so hard with and all these coaches and the people that are in this building and these fans,” Thomas said, via Tom Reed of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “It wasn’t until after the deadline that I realized that it was more serious than maybe just a rumor. At that point it was like, ‘Oh, interesting.'”

[VonDoom]

Dude didn't want to leave Cleveland. Probably a blessing in disguise.

I respect his loyalty. That said, he would have been plenty happy to come here and play for a 7-0 team

[Cugel]

NO, he was NOT: He gave up strip-sacks in THREE STRAIGHT GAMES by MIDSEASON; the first was our last trip to Indy, and our strip-sack-safety on Rodgers was eerily reminiscent of it, so I don't understand how any veteran line critic could have forgotten, let alone ignored those timely reminders. Each of those strip-sacks cost points, btw:

Indy got a safety and short field, quickly adding a TD: 9 pts in a game we lost by 6.

Washington got the ball at our 19, quickly adding a TD: 7 tie-breaking points that began a 14 pt run to lead 21-7, forcing us to convert TWO 4th downs to say in a game against A 3-13 TEAM IN OUR HOUSE!

San Diego got the ball at our 11, quickly adding a TD: 7 pts beginning a comeback from 28-6, nearly forcing OT before our D FINALLY made a stop to preserve 28-20.

Now, imagine ALL those games were on the road instead of just the lone loss. That was right about this time of year, too, a month after Clark took over (so no first-game jitters) but THREE months before the SB. And those are just the plays that stuck in my mind because they were SO bad and SO costly. Chris Clark didn't just suck in the SB: His consistently bad play just got a global spotlight there. I hoped the less demanding RT job might salvage him, but... no.... :(

All I meant by "fine" was that his play wasn't bad enough to prevent the Broncos from winning 13 games, the AFC Championship and getting to the SB with the highest scoring offense in NFL history.

Clark was not a stud by any means. He was a career backup LT who should never start for anybody. But, it wasn't until the SB that his deficiencies became fatal to the team's hopes (although in fairness nobody on the OL, particularly Orlando Franklin, covered themselves in glory).

That's my point about Tyler Polumbus and Ryan Harris. If the team keeps winning, the weakness at LT tends to get overlooked. Peyton has adapted to throwing quicker out of the pistol. The running game is working better.

They are compensating. Can you compensate for weaknesses on the OL in the playoffs or in the SB against a really good defense like the Seahawks?

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by BroncoJoe View Post
Dude didn't want to leave Cleveland. Probably a blessing in disguise.

What did you expect him to say BEFORE a trade was made? "Get me the F*** outta here! I hate Cleveland! Oops, I guess the trade is not going through, just kidding I really love Cleveland!"

[SR]

What did you expect him to say BEFORE a trade was made? "Get me the F*** outta here! I hate Cleveland! Oops, I guess the trade is not going through, just kidding I really love Cleveland!"

He's always maintained he doesn't ever want to leave Cleveland. Nothing new there.

[Joel]

All I meant by "fine" was that his play wasn't bad enough to prevent the Broncos from winning 13 games, the AFC Championship and getting to the SB with the highest scoring offense in NFL history.

Clark was not a stud by any means. He was a career backup LT who should never start for anybody. But, it wasn't until the SB that his deficiencies became fatal to the team's hopes (although in fairness nobody on the OL, particularly Orlando Franklin, covered themselves in glory).

That's my point about Tyler Polumbus and Ryan Harris. If the team keeps winning, the weakness at LT tends to get overlooked. Peyton has adapted to throwing quicker out of the pistol. The running game is working better.
Harris isn't a career backup: In Denver, he started all but his rookie season, in Houston he was only a backup because Duane Brown's an All Pro and Derek Netwon's pretty good (but Harris STILL got 6 starts due to injury, and did alright) and he started all last season in KC; they just cut him because they still hope Fisher will earn his 1st round status and they their pair of recent 3rd rounders will do the same on the right (plus all three are far younger than Harris.)


They are compensating. Can you compensate for weaknesses on the OL in the playoffs or in the SB against a really good defense like the Seahawks?
No, but next years 2nd and an UNKNOWN 2017 1st were too much when we probably start a new untested QB next year. As noted in the other thread, I'd be happy giving up our NEXT 1st (a late one, hence Cleveland wouldn't take it) and an unknown 2017 2nd; that's how we got Zimmerman—but Thomas isn't worth more than Zimmerman, and, even WITH 1st round picks, Griese was the best successor we found for Elway. Our 1st rounder 2 years after the first SB win? Al Wilson. I wanted the trade, but not for THAT price.

[BroncoJoe]

What did you expect him to say BEFORE a trade was made? "Get me the F*** outta here! I hate Cleveland! Oops, I guess the trade is not going through, just kidding I really love Cleveland!"

Those comments were after the trade deadline.

[TimHippo]

Those comments were after the trade deadline.

Of course he would say he loves Cleveland. He can't say, I hate this dump of a city, and this dumpster organization and wish the trade had gone through and then show up to practice the next morning.

[SR]

Of course he would say he loves Cleveland. He can't say, I hate this dump of a city, and this dumpster organization and wish the trade had gone through and then show up to practice the next morning.

Again I say, he has always maintained he likes playing in Cleveland and has no desire to leave.

[TimHippo]

Again I say, he has always maintained he likes playing in Cleveland and has no desire to leave.

Of course he is going to say that while he is there. It's just not smart to publicly say that you don't like the city and team you are currently playing for.

[MOtorboat]

Of course he is going to say that while he is there. It's just not smart to publicly say that you don't like the city and team you are currently playing for.

As much as he's said it, I think it's much more likely that he's telling the truth.

[Ravage!!!]

As much as he's said it, I think it's much more likely that he's telling the truth.

Yeah. I'm sure he's telling the truth as he's made a lot of friends in Cleveland. That being said, he would probably say the same thing after living in Denver for a couple years, as well. But, no matter what, I wouldnt' expect him to say anything else. No matter what. He seems like a class guy, and dissing people before or after trade talks doesn't seem to be in his make-up.

[Poet]

Some players find a 'home' that fits their familial needs well. It's the stability and routine I suppose.

[Cugel]

Harris isn't a career backup: In Denver, he started all but his rookie season, in Houston he was only a backup because Duane Brown's an All Pro and Derek Netwon's pretty good (but Harris STILL got 6 starts due to injury, and did alright) and he started all last season in KC; they just cut him because they still hope Fisher will earn his 1st round status and they their pair of recent 3rd rounders will do the same on the right (plus all three are far younger than Harris.)

That's interesting. I didn't know why KC cut Harris. What I heard was that Eric Fisher didn't exactly light it up. Then they moved him to RT which is a huge demotion for the #1 overall pick, and a guy they gave nearly a $15 M signing bonus, but they had Branden Albert. Despite losing Albert in FA they still have Fisher at RT, and Donald Stevenson at LT. And last year, according to their depth chart, Harris was backing up Stevenson.


No, but next years 2nd and an UNKNOWN 2017 1st were too much when we probably start a new untested QB next year. As noted in the other thread, I'd be happy giving up our NEXT 1st (a late one, hence Cleveland wouldn't take it) and an unknown 2017 2nd; that's how we got Zimmerman—but Thomas isn't worth more than Zimmerman, and, even WITH 1st round picks, Griese was the best successor we found for Elway. Our 1st rounder 2 years after the first SB win? Al Wilson. I wanted the trade, but not for THAT price.

They are going to give Brock Osweiler at least 2 years to develop as a starter, unless he's just putrid, which nobody expects, which means they are not going to invest a #1 pick in a QB in the 2017 draft. (If he struggled in 2016, but succeeded brilliantly in 2017 they're paying a lot of $ to a wasted pick).

This is strengthened by how difficult it is to draft a QB anyway. This year for instance, unless you wanted Garrett Grayson (no), there were NO QBs at all available! Mariota and Winston were gone with the first 2 picks, and neither the Bucs or Titans was willing at all to trade their pick. So, no QB for you! Come back next year!

That happens a lot of years.

2006: Do you want Vince Young, Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler? No.
2007: How about JaWalrus Russell, Brady Quinn or Kevin Kolb? No?
2008: Once past #18 (Joe Flacco) you got Brian Brohme or Chad Henne. Urg. So there were 2 QBs in 3 years of the draft, and only 1 of them was available because Atlanta wasn't trading Matt Ryan's pick for anything.
2009: How about Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman? <barf>
2010: How about Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow or Jimmy Clausen? <dry heaves>
2011: You're not getting Cam Newton without the #1 pick, so you're stuck with Andy Dalton as your best option over Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker or Christian Ponder. And we'd be crossing our fingers that he didn't choke horribly in the playoffs for the 5th time.
2012: You ain't getting Andrew Luck unless you're the Colts, so unless you had the brains to take Russell Wilson (hindsight) Brock Osweiler is the best of the rest.

Sight unseen he might be the best QB available in the draft since 2008 other than a #1 overall pick in Cam. Unless you believe in Andy Dalton's resurrection which I don't.

And Osweiler might not be particularly good either, but they're going cling to him and try like mad to develop him because what other good option do they have?

You can go year after year with ZERO good QBs available in the draft, and it seems to be getting WORSE rather than better. Unless the NFL figures out a way to start developing QBs better, or college starts turning out better NFL style QBs it's going to get more and more desperate.

[7DnBrnc53]

2007: How about JaWalrus Russell, Brady Quinn or Kevin Kolb? No?

Also from 07, don't forget the famous John Beck:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/did-kyle-shanahan-want-to-draft-john-beck-10th-in-2007/2011/08/09/gIQAD1xM4I_blog.html

Before the draft, Texans GM Rick Smith asked QB coach Kyle Shanahan who the best QB was that year, and Kyle said that John Beck was the best QB in that draft.



2010: How about Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow or Jimmy Clausen? <dry heaves>

I remember doing a mock draft on another site that year, and I said that the right pick for the Rams was Suh because Sam Bradford wasn't a #1 overall pick-type QB (like an Elway or Peyton).

The Rams could have had Suh, and then something interesting could have happened: Carolina wanted Jimmy Clausen, and they were thinking about trying to trade up to the top of Round 2 with the Rams to get him (they would have given up their 2011 #1 pick to St. Louis).

Imagine if that happens, leaving the Rams with the #1 overall pick in 2011. Maybe Andrew Luck comes out if they have that pick (I heard somewhere that he went back to Stanford because he didn't want to play for Carolina).

[VonDoom]

Ian Rapoport has been the only one saying that the Thomas deal fell through based on the Broncos not guaranteeing him money in the next couple of years. That would be an odd reason for it not happening, but he's sticking with it. There was also a new wrinkle to that story going around this morning:


So why didn’t the Browns trade left tackle Joe Thomas to the Broncos this week? Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that the trade didn’t happen because Thomas wanted guaranteed pay in 2016 and 2017, but the Broncos declined to make that commitment.

Signed through 2018, Thomas is due to make $8.3 million, $8.8 million, and $8.8 million over the next three seasons, respectively.

Rapoport also reports that Thomas specifically asked the Browns to explore trade possibilities. And that will raise eyebrows in Cleveland, given that this specific news makes Thomas look like a liar.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/08/report-joe-thomas-deal-broke-down-over-guaranteed-pay/

It ultimately doesn't matter now, but I wonder how much of this was true.

[BroncoJoe]

Same site:


“I wish that before people would put stories out they would try to confirm that there is some accuracy to it,” Schaffer said.

Schaffer added that there is no accuracy to the notion that Thomas wanted to leave Cleveland.

“Everything Joe said about wanting to be a Brown is 100 percent true,” Schaffer said. “It was when he said it and it still is today.”

All that matter is that Thomas is still is a Brown today. Whether the team keeps him for the next three years remains to be seen. For now, Schaffer insists that Thomas doesn’t want to leave, that Thomas didn’t want to leave, and that his potential departure didn’t hinge in any way on Thomas wanting guaranteed salary beyond the current season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/08/agent-trade-talks-never-addressed-joe-thomas-contract/

[Cugel]

“I wish that before people would put stories out they would try to confirm that there is some accuracy to it,” Schaffer said.

Schaffer added that there is no accuracy to the notion that Thomas wanted to leave Cleveland.

“Everything Joe said about wanting to be a Brown is 100 percent true,” Schaffer said. “It was when he said it and it still is today.”

All that matter is that Thomas is still is a Brown today. Whether the team keeps him for the next three years remains to be seen. For now, Schaffer insists that Thomas doesn’t want to leave, that Thomas didn’t want to leave, and that his potential departure didn’t hinge in any way on Thomas wanting guaranteed salary beyond the current season.

People put out stories because the Cleveland Browns are a crap organization that constantly loses and is in endless disarray, and he'd be a total fool to want to stay and "rebuild" with the Browns for the rest of his career instead of playing for a winning team that might win a SB championship - which need we remind everybody Cleveland has NEVER done, one of the only 2 original NFL franchises which has NEVER even gone to the SB, let alone won, and probably never will - at least not in Thomas' playing career.

So, that's why people assume he would want to leave. Apparently he didn't. Well, he's not getting his wish. Just because Denver didn't meet Cleveland's asking price in the middle of the season, doesn't mean no other team will make any offers for Joe Thomas - or any of the rest of the Browns players they were shopping (all of them in a fire sale), during the next off-season.

If they were peddling Thomas (and they were) you can bet they will try and move him next off-season. They will simply want a better set of draft picks than Denver offered. They might get them too.

But, it would take a miracle for Thomas to wind up his career in Cleveland - and frankly it doesn't matter what he wants. He'd be perfectly happy playing in Denver if he ever got here.

[Cugel]

As much as he's said it, I think it's much more likely that he's telling the truth.

Did you ever work for a company where if they asked you publicly, "what do you think about working here" you would say "you know what? I think this organization sucks, they're constantly changing management, and they always hire a bunch of clowns to run things and that never turns out well, my co-workers mostly aren't very good at their jobs and I'm tired of always having to pick up after their messes, and I'd really like to work somewhere else."

Because if you said that you would be fired immediately, yes?

So if you said instead, "no I really love working for Galactus Inc.! It's totally awesome" should people assume that was the truth?

8014

[Poet]

Cleveland players tend to love playing there. The fans love them, there's no expectations of doing anything in the playoffs, let alone getting there, they tend to overpay their handfull of good players, and it's overall very nice for them. Their players stay loyal, largely because of the fans.

Your analysis would normally be correct. It's not here.

[MOtorboat]

Normally, when I'm wrong I admit it, not keep digging the whole deeper.

[Poet]

I avoid being wrong.

[Cugel]

Cleveland players tend to love playing there. The fans love them, there's no expectations of doing anything in the playoffs, let alone getting there, they tend to overpay their handfull of good players, and it's overall very nice for them. Their players stay loyal, largely because of the fans.

Your analysis would normally be correct. It's not here.

I don't know what Joe Thomas really thinks. I assume he likes the town of Cleveland and living there. He might like his teammates and coaches.

But, he's probably about to get dealt in the off-season, so it's pretty much irrelevant what he wants is it not?

And he'd be totally insane to mope about being traded from a worthless organization like Cleveland that always loses every year.

They have made the playoffs exactly one time since they got their team back in 1999 and immediately lost, and this year nothing is different. They are about to blow up the team again and start over - which is why they were shopping everybody on the roster for draft picks.

•
Left without a team for the three seasons between 1996-98 (after the old Browns became the Baltimore Ravens) -- in retrospect, the Browns' salad days -- Cleveland began anew with its '99 expansion team. In the 15 seasons of the "new'' Browns, Cleveland has lost in double digits 12 times, endured 13 losing seasons, finished last in the division 11 times and made the playoffs once, a one-and-done appearance as an unlikely 9-7 wild-card team in 2002. That year, even team president Carmen Policy essentially gave up on his club's playoff hopes after it lost in Week 15 to fall to 7-7.

Why do fans assume that "if he doesn't want to come here I don't want him" as though every player is supposed to love the Denver Broncos before they come here?

That's just not the real world.

[Cugel]

Normally, when I'm wrong I admit it, not keep digging the whole deeper.

The "whole" what??? Is that a pun? If so it's not bad. :laugh:

[Timmy!]

I avoid being wrong.

It really is the best strategy.

[Joel]

Normally, when I'm wrong I admit it, not keep digging the whole deeper.
Or lash out with expletives and rants that whoever noted the error was "wrong" to do so; pretty much the same, really. ;)

[Simple Jaded]

Ian Rapoport has been the only one saying that the Thomas deal fell through based on the Broncos not guaranteeing him money in the next couple of years. That would be an odd reason for it not happening, but he's sticking with it. There was also a new wrinkle to that story going around this morning:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/08/report-joe-thomas-deal-broke-down-over-guaranteed-pay/

It ultimately doesn't matter now, but I wonder how much of this was true.

The Broncos could have lowered his cap number by accommodating his wish, I don't see this being the hang up.

[TimHippo]

Normally, when I'm wrong I admit it, not keep digging the whole deeper.

Yeah, keep digging that whole :)

[TimHippo]

Ian Rapoport has been the only one saying that the Thomas deal fell through based on the Broncos not guaranteeing him money in the next couple of years. That would be an odd reason for it not happening, but he's sticking with it. There was also a new wrinkle to that story going around this morning:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/08/report-joe-thomas-deal-broke-down-over-guaranteed-pay/

It ultimately doesn't matter now, but I wonder how much of this was true.

"Rapoport also reports that Thomas specifically asked the Browns to explore trade possibilities. And that will raise eyebrows in Cleveland, given that this specific news makes Thomas look like a liar."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/08/report-joe-thomas-deal-broke-down-over-guaranteed-pay/

Sounds like Joe Thomas is talking out of the side of his mouth when he says he loves Cleveland.

[Cugel]

OK. I think we can officially call "Bull-shit" on Elway and Kubiak and that "the OL will be fine" with Ryan Harris and Tyler Polumbus and Michael Schofield playing T by calling off the Joe Thomas trade.

They officially can't run the ball on the road. They did OK in the Green Bay game, but that was at home where there's zero crowd noise so the defense doesn't get a jump on the offense. On the road with the crowd screaming on every play, it's a different story.

Ronnie Hillman carried 7 times for 1 yard!
CJ carried 7 times for 35 yards.

This offense depends entirely on being able to run the ball to enable all the other parts of their game plan. And they couldn't run at all on the 29th ranked rush defense (now they're 23rd after stuffing the Broncos).

Unless something radically changes they are going to be done in the playoffs, because if you can't run the ball on the road, you can't win on the road.

I think the trade deadline cutoff came a few weeks too early. I bet anything that Elway wishes he'd made that trade this morning when looking at those rushing statistics!

[BroncoJoe]

Maybe if we ran more than 14 times, the output would be different.

Congrats to those that said "let Peyton play his game!". 36 passes vs. 14 running plays? CJ Anderson averaged 4.9 ypc.

IT'S NOT JUST THE OFFENSIVE LINE!

I mean, playing Peyton ball has won us a bunch of championships, right! Oh, wait...

[Cugel]

Maybe if we ran more than 14 times, the output would be different.

Congrats to those that said "let Peyton play his game!". 36 passes vs. 14 running plays? CJ Anderson averaged 4.9 ypc.

IT'S NOT JUST THE OFFENSIVE LINE!

I mean, playing Peyton ball has won us a bunch of championships, right! Oh, wait...

As Joel Dreesen pointed out this AM on 104.3 The Fan, they TRIED to run the ball on 1st and 2nd down in the first half, but CJ and Ronnie were repeatedly stuffed in the backfield when the OL failed to make any kind of block or open any kind of hole at all.



They tried - and then went 3 and out when Emmanuel Sanders dropped the ball that hit him on the hands for a key 3rd down.

But, when they fell behind by 17 points, the run game kind of went out the window in the second half, as they needed to play catch up, with Peyton in hurry up mode.

You don't really think that Kubiak wanted to abandon the run? He was forced to because they couldn't get anything going on the ground and were behind by 3 scores.

The key, if the defense is struggling to contain the opposition, is to run the ball. If they could have run in the 1st half, the Colts would have had at least 1 fewer possessions and the score at half-time would have been 14-7 or 10-7. Delete even 1 FG from the Colts total and the Broncos wouldn't have lost (at least in regulation) and they might have won in regulation!

That's how key the lack of run game Was to the outcome. And that TOTALLY IS ON THE OL, not on Peyton or anybody else.

Sure, the defense was bad, and Peyton threw 2 picks. But, the key to the game was the inability to run. Because as we saw the defense is not going to win every game for you. And on a day when the receivers are dropping passes and the defense is giving up huge 3rd downs, you need to be able to run.

[Cugel]

We wouldn't be having this conversation "why the Broncos can't run the ball" if Elway had just made the Joe Thomas trade. Instead we'd be talking about "how soon can they get Joe Thomas up to speed on the OL communications so that the Broncos will have one of the best running games in the NFL."

That's the difference between getting crushed in the playoffs, and having a chance to win a SB.

[BroncoJoe]

BS. Hillman wasn't right, but CJ was gaining yards. We started playing Peyton ball and ran only 14 times.

[MOtorboat]

BS. Hillman wasn't right, but CJ was gaining yards. We started playing Peyton ball and ran only 14 times.

They were down 17-0. They had to throw.

[VonDoom]

They were down 17-0. They had to throw.

Correct. Manning ball? Here's what we did on first and second down on the first four drives of the game:

Drive 1 - 2 pass, 0 run
Drive 2 - 1 pass, 1 run (2 yards)
Drive 3 - 3 pass, 3 run (0 yards total on the runs)

So on 1st and 2nd down, we passed six times, ran four for 2 total yards.

Drive 4 - 2 pass, 2 run (CJ had a nice 10 yard run here, the other was for one yard).

Then the INT, then down 17-0. By then we had run six times for 13 yards, 10 of which came on one run. What exactly were we clinging to there?

[BroncoJoe]

They were down 17-0. They had to throw.

BS. We didn't even try to run.

1st Q: 12 passes, 4 rushes / score at the end of the 1st: 7-0
2nd Q: 10 passes, 3 rushes / score at the end of the 2nd: 17-7 - Peyton's first interception led to a TD for the Colts

[MOtorboat]

2.1 YPC on the first three drives.

That's a giant shit sandwich by the offensive line.

[BroncoJoe]

2.1 YPC on the first three drives.

That's a giant shit sandwich by the offensive line.

Of course that's how you'll look at it.

14 incomplete passes, 8 completions. 22 attempts, 75 yards. 3.4 whopping yards/attempt.

We gave up on the run WAY too soon.

Like it or not, Anderson averaged 4.8 ypc. Unfortunately, he only got 7 carries.

[silkamilkamonico]

Why is ll this in the Joe Thomas to Denver thread?

[BroncoJoe]

Why is ll this in the Joe Thomas to Denver thread?

Because we felt like putting it here.