Ted Sundquist: Why I Drafted Jay Cutler

[VonDoom]

Interesting blast from the past first hand account of former GM Ted Sundquist drafting and developing Cutler. Worth a read on this bye week:


Blowing a home game against a No. 6 seed for the right to Super Bowl XL was never forgotten by the fans and media, and never forgiven by our head coach. There was a ripple effect.

After the season, the two men perhaps most responsible for Plummer's remarkable season left for Houston: Offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak was named head coach of the Texans and took with him little known but highly influential offensive assistant Troy Calhoun.

Enter Mike Heimerdinger. Dinger was a longtime friend and college roommate of Mike Shanahan's and had previously been in Denver as wide receivers coach from 1995 to 1999. We brought him back as assistant head coach in late January 2006, about three months before the draft.

It was no secret in Denver that Heimerdinger was coming to the Broncos to pad his resume for a shot at the top—and that he wasn't a big Plummer fan. A play-action, bootleg, rollout and at times improv quarterback wasn't going to help him catch the eye of an NFL owner looking for his next savior. Our backup QB, Bradlee Van Pelt, was a local hero out of Colorado State but wasn't the type of quarterback to help land anyone a future head coaching job in the NFL.

Heimerdinger had spent 2000 to 2004 in Nashville—in close proximity to Vanderbilt and Cutler—as the Titans' offensive coordinator under Jeff Fisher.

He immediately began lobbying for Cutler.

The rest: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2580349-why-i-drafted-jay-cutler-and-what-happened-from-there?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=web-des-art-top-16

[Buff]

I was ready to post "TL;DR - because Shanahan told him to draft him." But there is actually a lot of stuff here about Cutler that I haven't heard before... Most notably:



Shortly after Josh McDaniels moved into his office at Dove Valley, he called in Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, for a closed-door meeting. The story goes that McDaniels began with a 20-minute dissertation of his resume, how he'd worked his way up the ranks in New England to become Bill Belichick's right-hand man with the offense and how the team would have been nowhere the year before without his tutelage of backup Matt Cassel. He continued on with justification of his hiring by Bowlen.

After the perplexing recitation of accomplishments, McDaniels suddenly shifted gears.

He began to bash and berate Cutler and his game to the tune of a verbal flogging neither had ever witnessed. The expletive-laden diatribe went on for a few minutes, after which Cook stood up and told Cutler they were leaving. As they walked down the long hallway past Bowlen's office, Cutler turned to Bus and said, "Get me out of here. I don't care how you do it."

Also sounds like Sundquist doesn't think much of Mike Heimerdinger.

[VonDoom]

I was ready to post "TL;DR - because Shanahan told him to draft him." But there is actually a lot of stuff here about Cutler that I haven't heard before... Most notably:



Also sounds like Sundquist doesn't think much of Mike Heimerdinger.

Yeah, from this perspective, you can see him taking shots at Heimerdinger. I actually didn't know (or at least didn't remember) that Shanahan was so interested in Leinart during that draft.

[NightTrainLayne]

I was ready to post "TL;DR - because Shanahan told him to draft him." But there is actually a lot of stuff here about Cutler that I haven't heard before... Most notably:



Also sounds like Sundquist doesn't think much of Mike Heimerdinger.

He's taken shots at Shanny and Dinger before. Sundquist here, and in previous spots has really shined a lot of light on the disfunction at Dove Valley from about 2005 forward up until his dismissal.

[underrated29]

I dont really blame cutler so much now. I would likely do the same thing if I was a player.

[Buff]

He's taken shots at Shanny and Dinger before. Sundquist here, and in previous spots has really shined a lot of light on the disfunction at Dove Valley from about 2005 forward do his dismissal.

Yeah, I'd heard his shots at Shanny before, and a lot of the dysfunction... I'd never heard that version of McDaniels alienation of Cutler though - this seems to be the most detailed account I've ever seen.

[NightTrainLayne]

Yeah, I'd heard his shots at Shanny before, and a lot of the dysfunction... I'd never heard that version of McDaniels alienation of Cutler though - this seems to be the most detailed account I've ever seen.

Yes. Although, Sundquist here is not revealing a first-person account. It may very well be true, but this part is at best, second-hand.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, from this perspective, you can see him taking shots at Heimerdinger. I actually didn't know (or at least didn't remember) that Shanahan was so interested in Leinart during that draft.

I don't remember where it was but when it was thought Leinart might come out after his junior year Shanahan commented that like him as quarterback. If Leinart had come out after his junior season it would have been a pipe dream to get him because it was thought at worst he would end up in the top five and a lot people had him becoming the number one overall pick in the draft.

[TXBRONC]

I dont really blame cutler so much now. I would likely do the same thing if I was a player.

It always seemed that Plummer fans blamed Cutler for being drafted when he didn't have any control over that. Unless John Elway or a Manning a potential draft pick doesn't have the clout to tell a team perspective NFL team to go pound sand.

[Buff]

Yes. Although, Sundquist here is not revealing a first-person account. It may very well be true, but this part is at best, second-hand.

Right - but it stands to reason he has a personal relationship with Bus Cook - and it aligns with everything we know, especially about McDaniels being a petulant little twerp who was in way over his head and had no experience dealing with grown people.

[VonDoom]

Right - but it stands to reason he has a personal relationship with Bus Cook - and it aligns with everything we know, especially about McDaniels being a petulant little twerp who was in way over his head and had no experience dealing with grown people.

Yeah, I had an issue with him not being there for this supposed meeting, but it seems very believable, given what we know about McD.

[Buff]

Yeah, I had an issue with him not being there for this supposed meeting, but it seems very believable, given what we know about McD.

Of course he rattled off his resume for the first 20 minutes. I had a meeting with a business partner last year - older lady, first time we'd met - she wanted me to know about all of the power positions she's held over the years... Basically it just revealed to me that she is insecure and power hungry and had the opposite effect she desired.

[Northman]

I'd never heard that version of McDaniels alienation of Cutler though - this seems to be the most detailed account I've ever seen.

Me either but im not surprised. McD had a way of alienating a lot of the players when he was here.

[Northman]

It always seemed that Plummer fans blamed Cutler for being drafted when he didn't have any control over that. Unless John Elway or a Manning a potential draft pick doesn't have the clout to tell a team perspective NFL team to go pound sand.

Most of people ive seen speak on that didnt really blame Cutler for being drafted, only that the Broncos should of used the pick somewhere else (Ngata gets brought up a lot).

[TXBRONC]

Most of people ive seen speak on that didnt really blame Cutler for being drafted, only that the Broncos should of used the pick somewhere else (Ngata gets brought up a lot).

I wasn't meaning the majority of fans it was alway a small faction but a very vocal one. Most of the ones that did the complaining here are gone. Some of same fans that whined that Ngata should been the pick were also some of the most ardent Plummer fans.

[underrated29]

I liked the trade for cutler. Thought it was a good move for the future. I didnt like the trade for tebow even though I hated Orton. Hated! I did like tebow though. Just not trading for him. In fact, not that any of you care, but I have liked all of our QBs since Elway aside from Orton.

[Cugel]

I dont really blame cutler so much now. I would likely do the same thing if I was a player.

I said at the time in the face of vast amounts of abuse that none of it was really Cutler's fault. McMoron came in and deliberately tried to antagonize Cutler so he could blame Cutler for wanting out, and then the fans wouldn't hold him responsible for immediately wanting to get rid of their #1 pick, a QB who had just gone to the pro-bowl (although as an alternate).

But, in retrospect, it's a complete confederacy of dunces with no way out no matter what happened.

#1 - It was clear after the AFC Championship that Plummer was not going to be good enough to win a SB. Shanahan recognized that and wanted a young QB to develop. Cutler had all the athletic talent in the world to be another Aaron Rogers. He just never grew up, and always remained the same petulant teenager he is today.

#2 - The last 10 years of Cutler's career have proved that he was never good enough.

#3 - Leinart, the guy Shanahan wanted turned out to be a complete bust with 4 different teams and wound up his career in 2013 after he failed to make the Buffalo Bills roster, being beaten out by QB legend, the undrafted QB Jeff Truel.

#4 - McMoron, the idiot who engineered all the drama out of his desire to trade for Hall of Famer Matt Cassel, and then failed to accomplish that feat when Hoodie traded Cassel to KC, crashed and burned in Denver in less than 2 seasons, taking the Broncos to their lowest point in the last 30 years - 4-12.

If he hadn't traded Cutler, he would have lasted longer and done more damage, although he did enough, throwing away all his draft picks, and weaving around the board like a drunken sailor to draft Tim Tebow.

#5 - Ted Sundquist, who tells this tale never got another job in the NFL although he interviewed for the GM spot in KC, the 49ers and the Giants between 2010 and 2013. So, I think we can safely conclude that he was not considered a great GM by anybody. In fact he was Shanahan's yes man until he fell out with Shanny after the 2007 season. Bowlen was not happy with getting rid of him, but Shanahan had total control over the team and so Bowlen let him have his way. However, the Sundquist firing set the stage for Shanny's own firing a year later. He ran out of excuses for the constant mediocrity and playoff failures after 2008.

In the end Denver got Peyton Manning through a fluke and it's all good. :beer:

[Cugel]

I liked the trade for cutler. Thought it was a good move for the future. I didnt like the trade for tebow even though I hated Orton. Hated! I did like tebow though. Just not trading for him. In fact, not that any of you care, but I have liked all of our QBs since Elway aside from Orton.

You mean the trade OF Cutler for Orton? And Tebow was drafted #15 in the first round, not traded for, so you mean all the trades that Denver did to move up in the draft and take him? :confused:

The trade of Cutler was a disaster in that Denver gave away much better draft picks than Chicago offered. In fact, the Jets and Redskins were angry that McMoron refused to allow them to out-bid the Bears. But, McMoron wanted Kyle Orton as his QB.

Still, it probably didn't matter. McMoron used the #12 pick of the draft on RB Knowshon Moreno and the #18 pick on Robert Ayers, bypassing LBs Brian Orakpo and Clay Matthews, so he would certainly have blown those picks, just as he did in trading a #1 pick for the 2nd round pick which he used to select that future Hall of Fame CB Alphonso Smith. :rolleyes: And just as he wasted draft stock in moving up the board to grab Tim Tebow in 2010.

In retrospect the only sensible move would have been sticking with Cutler for a few years because Kyle Orton was mostly useless, and the only QBs in the 2009 Draft were Matt Stafford #1, Mark Sanchez #5, Josh Freeman, #17, and Pat White #44 - (just to mention what QBs drafted in the 2nd round normally look like). And it didn't get any better in 2010 after Sam Bradford went #1, with Tim Tebow or Jimmy Clausen or Colt McCoy. Or 2011. In 2011 - after Cam Newton went #1, the next QBs taken were Jake Locker #8 and Blaine Gabbert #10, Christian Ponder #12 and ultimately Andy Dalton #35.

So, I suppose the Broncos could have waited till 2011 and drafted Andy Dalton, but that's the only QB drafted between 2008 and 2011 who was even worth a roster spot. 2009-2011 was just a vast waste land of the worthless QBs.

[DenBronx]

I dont really blame cutler so much now. I would likely do the same thing if I was a player.

It always seemed that Plummer fans blamed Cutler for being drafted when he didn't have any control over that. Unless John Elway or a Manning a potential draft pick doesn't have the clout to tell a team perspective NFL team to go pound sand.


I was a big fan of Plummer. Looking back we should of stuck with Plummer a little longer before making the switch to Cutler. I was also happy at the time that Jay got his shot.

But we all know Josh McDaniels was a **** sucker. I hated that guy when he first walked in the door and still do. So glad Bowlen gave that clown the boot.

[7DnBrnc53]

Cutler had all the athletic talent in the world to be another Aaron Rogers. He just never grew up, and always remained the same petulant teenager he is today.

Interesting that you mentioned Rodgers. I have been thinking about something: In 2005, Shanahan said that he traded out of Round 1 with Washington because he felt that the players he wanted would be gone. I wonder if Rodgers was one of those guys. If he was, it's just another time where Mike's impatience may have caught up with him.

[BroncoJoe]

Hey Cugel - S.T.F.U. We're having actual conversations here.

[BroncoWave]

That was a pretty fascinating article to read. It's awesome to get all of that inside info on what really went down back in those days. You do have to wonder how Cutler's career would have been different and how Denver's success at that time would have been different had we properly developed Cutler and not given Plummer a "win or get benched" ultimatum. I remember at the time I was all about benching Plummer for Cutler, but it's pretty abundantly clear that that move was a colossal blunder.

And THANK GOD Shanny wasn't able to get Leinhart. As bad as Cutler wound up being, at least he was good enough to keep us relevant and get a good ransom in trade for him. Leinart could have torpedoed the franchise long before McD ever got his hands on it.

[Ravage!!!]

I personally think Cutler gets more shit than he deserves, but he is what he is, now. I absolutely feel he would have been soooo much better had he had a coaching staff that was worth a shit at the beginning of his career. He had that in Denver, and after that, it never did. I think he actually has a decent coaching staff, now. But as the article pointed out...he's no long are "developing" player. They aren't looking to develope, and expect him to be a refined vet by now..... I mean, he IS a vet.

It happens to a lot of talent in the NFL. COaching and "systems" will generally make or break a guy...especially at QB.

Also... .doesn't surprise me one bit that McDoosh was a complete a-hole from the start. This meeting was after he tried to trade for Cassle, and it was the "make-up" meeting.

[TXBRONC]

You mean the trade OF Cutler for Orton? And Tebow was drafted #15 in the first round, not traded for, so you mean all the trades that Denver did to move up in the draft and take him? :confused:

The trade of Cutler was a disaster in that Denver gave away much better draft picks than Chicago offered. In fact, the Jets and Redskins were angry that McMoron refused to allow them to out-bid the Bears. But, McMoron wanted Kyle Orton as his QB.

Still, it probably didn't matter. McMoron used the #12 pick of the draft on RB Knowshon Moreno and the #18 pick on Robert Ayers, bypassing LBs Brian Orakpo and Clay Matthews, so he would certainly have blown those picks, just as he did in trading a #1 pick for the 2nd round pick which he used to select that future Hall of Fame CB Alphonso Smith. And just as he wasted draft stock in moving up the board to grab Tim Tebow in 2010.

In retrospect the only sensible move would have been sticking with Cutler for a few years because Kyle Orton was mostly useless, and the only QBs in the 2009 Draft were Matt Stafford #1, Mark Sanchez #5, Josh Freeman, #17, and Pat White #44 - (just to mention what QBs drafted in the 2nd round normally look like). And it didn't get any better in 2010 after Sam Bradford went #1, with Tim Tebow or Jimmy Clausen or Colt McCoy. Or 2011. In 2011 - after Cam Newton went #1, the next QBs taken were Jake Locker #8 and Blaine Gabbert #10, Christian Ponder #12 and ultimately Andy Dalton #35.

So, I suppose the Broncos could have waited till 2011 and drafted Andy Dalton, but that's the only QB drafted between 2008 and 2011 who was even worth a roster spot. 2009-2011 was just a vast waste land of the worthless QBs.

Cugel, sometimes I just don't know where you come up with some of your numbers. While Tebow was bad pick period he wasn't taken with 15th pick he was taken with 25th.

Quarterback is the toughest position in football to play but I say that only quarterback worthy of roster spot over the last four or five years is not accurate. Bridgewater and Carr both would have been worth the pick and as far Osweiler is concerned I'll take Elway's evaluation over everyone else. You keep going on about the fail rate quarterbacks in the second round but reality taking a quarterback in first round doesn't mean they'll make it.

[Joel]

Cugel, sometimes I just don't know where you come up with some of your numbers. While Tebow was bad pick period he wasn't taken with 15th pick he was taken with 25th.

Quarterback is the toughest position in football to play but I say that only quarterback worthy of roster spot over the last four or five years is not accurate. Bridgewater and Carr both would have been worth the pick and as far Osweiler is concerned I'll take Elway's evaluation over everyone else. You keep going on about the fail rate quarterbacks in the second round but reality taking a quarterback in first round doesn't mean they'll make it.
Taking anyone ANYWHERE'S no guarantee; that's the draft: Sometimes you get '98s #1 overall pick, others, you get its #2 overall pick. Shouldn't be that much difference between #1 and #2, but one's a first ballot HoFer and the other's a prison inmate. That said, RATE of success DOES correlate strongly with where a pick's made. All THAT said, the past decades record says:

1)st round QBs fail/succeed about equally whether early or late 1sts, 2)nd rounders often do well, just less often than 1st rounders and 3)rd rounders and later almost NEVER succeed.

I think it was BR that did an overview on this 2-3 years ago, and found all of THREE starters drafted in the 3rd or later: Schaub (3rd,) Romo (UDFA) and Brady (6th.) Schaub managed to start most of his career (which technically isn't over; he's making $1 million to backup Flacco) but I doubt many would call him a success; swap him for Wilson and that's still a VERY short list. All other starters at the time were either 1st or 2nd round picks, but, while 1st outnumbered 2nds about 3:1, that still meant half a dozen 2nd round picks were starting QBs in... I wanna say 2012, but don't quote me.

As for Cutler, I think Cugel has the right of why we had to draft him after Plummers 4 turnover implosion in the AFCCG, and McDumbass was dead to me the moment I heard about that trade (one claim I heard at the time was that he tried a three-way trade to get, not just Cassel, but Cassel AND THE #1 OVERALL PICK for a mere Pro Bowl alternate.) Later finding out Cutler privately asked him about it and McDumbass lied to his face, only to have it come out in the paper, just clinched the deal; the next 1½ were just a slow repeated twisting of the knife.

I agree with Rav that decent coaching might've made Cutler a decent QB, but once he left Denver for Chicagos offensively challenged coaches he was doomed; I remember thinking at the time, Did Jay check Chicagos sack totals before he agreed to report to camp? Shanny needed Cutler, but Cutler needed him just as badly.

Still and so, I also agree with those pointing out the whole thing reads like a guy who's been unemployed since Denver fired him and is trying to explain why his Broncos failures are everyone ELSES fault.

[7DnBrnc53]

I think it was BR that did an overview on this 2-3 years ago, and found all of THREE starters drafted in the 3rd or later: Schaub (3rd,) Romo (UDFA) and Brady (6th.) Schaub managed to start most of his career (which technically isn't over; he's making $1 million to backup Flacco) but I doubt many would call him a success; swap him for Wilson and that's still a VERY short list. All other starters at the time were either 1st or 2nd round picks, but, while 1st outnumbered 2nds about 3:1, that still meant half a dozen 2nd round picks were starting QBs in... I wanna say 2012, but don't quote me.

As for Cutler, I think Cugel has the right of why we had to draft him after Plummers 4 turnover implosion in the AFCCG, and McDumbass was dead to me the moment I heard about that trade (one claim I heard at the time was that he tried a three-way trade to get, not just Cassel, but Cassel AND THE #1 OVERALL PICK for a mere Pro Bowl alternate.) Later finding out Cutler privately asked him about it and McDumbass lied to his face, only to have it come out in the paper, just clinched the deal; the next 1½ were just a slow repeated twisting of the knife.

I agree with Rav that decent coaching might've made Cutler a decent QB, but once he left Denver for Chicagos offensively challenged coaches he was doomed; I remember thinking at the time, Did Jay check Chicagos sack totals before he agreed to report to camp? Shanny needed Cutler, but Cutler needed him just as badly.

With Schaub and Romo, they had three years to develop before they became starters (in Romo's case about 3.5). With Brady, he was put in the perfect situation: A great coach and assistant (the shadowy Ernie Adams) that made the offense more conservative to disguise his weaknesses (more screen passes and underneath tosses and utilizing shorter, quicker receivers for the most part, along with a shorter RB that is always in the flat to catch passes).

As for 09, why didn't the Broncos bring in Elway two years earlier? Was he under contract with the Colorado Crush? Or did he not want to come on the heels of Shanny? I have always wondered that.

With Jeremy Bates, Denver should have tried harder to keep him, and they should have brought in someone like Steve Spagnuolo for HC. Spag wasn't great with the Rams, but with Denver, all they needed was defense. They didn't need an overhaul of the whole team. He may have done better with the Broncos.

[MOtorboat]

I'm glad both of the douchebags are gone.

[BeefStew25]

I forgot what a trainwreck McDaniels was.

[TXBRONC]

I was a big fan of Plummer. Looking back we should of stuck with Plummer a little longer before making the switch to Cutler. I was also happy at the time that Jay got his shot.

But we all know Josh McDaniels was a **** sucker. I hated that guy when he first walked in the door and still do. So glad Bowlen gave that clown the boot.

The switch was inevitable but insight Shanahan probably should have waited a little longer before making that change.

[TimHippo]

I used to always go to this website hoping they would get rid of that clown:
http://www.joshmcdanielssucks.com

[7DnBrnc53]

I used to always go to this website hoping they would get rid of that clown:
http://www.joshmcdanielssucks.com

I like the post where ex-Bronco punter Mitch "meat" Burger called him an equipment manager and a punk. So true. In 1975, when Belicheat was a slappy for the Colts, the players used to call him a punk as well. They also said that they wanted to clock him. I wonder if Bill hired him because he saw some of himself in Josh.

[Foochacho]

I just want to know if Peyton Hillis really screwed McDaniel's wife.

[artie_dale]

The switch was inevitable but insight Shanahan probably should have waited a little longer before making that change.

Makes me even more patient with Peyton Manning this season. I loved Jake Plummer too and always thought he got the raw end of the deal. I wonder now had the coaches just communicated to him that Jay Cutler needed to develop and Jake's job wasn't in jeopardy if that might have allowed Jake to play better that season he lost his job (we had a winning record). But, that would have only worked had Shanahan been patient and reasonable. Looks like that would have been asking too much.

[artie_dale]

Great article. I never disliked Jay Cutler and always credited him for seeing McDaniel's true colors first. Unfortunately, it took a few seasons for McDaniels to validate it.

Its a shame Cutler didn't get the chance to shore up his flaws. I remember feeling very confident in him and our offense after his last season as a Bronco.

But, of the QBs that were taken before him, he's the only one who kept his starting gig and is a starter today. To me, that's proof enough that he was worthy of the draft pick.

[TXBRONC]

Makes me even more patient with Peyton Manning this season. I loved Jake Plummer too and always thought he got the raw end of the deal. I wonder now had the coaches just communicated to him that Jay Cutler needed to develop and Jake's job wasn't in jeopardy if that might have allowed Jake to play better that season he lost his job (we had a winning record). But, that would have only worked had Shanahan been patient and reasonable. Looks like that would have been asking too much.

Denver would go into radio active meltdown mode before it would be even considered to bench Manning.

I don't think Plummer got a deal. Plummer was the starter it was his job to lose that should have made it clear enough. Play well and you won't lose your job.

[Joel]

Makes me even more patient with Peyton Manning this season. I loved Jake Plummer too and always thought he got the raw end of the deal. I wonder now had the coaches just communicated to him that Jay Cutler needed to develop and Jake's job wasn't in jeopardy if that might have allowed Jake to play better that season he lost his job (we had a winning record). But, that would have only worked had Shanahan been patient and reasonable. Looks like that would have been asking too much.
Yet Plummers job WAS in jeopardy, because he'd always been unreliably erratic. His career completion percentage is in the mid-fifties, and his TDs outnumbered Ints just 4 of his 10 seasons. The story of our '05 season was Shanny and Kubiaks constant combined effort finally settling him down into a QB who played well from the pocket, rather than running around like 4th graders playing football at recess: He completed >60% of passes and threw just 7 Ints, both of which he previously managed ONLY in 2003. But he disastrously reverted to form with 4 turnovers in the AFCCG, so we drafted Cutler as insurance.

The real moral of that story is the difference coaching makes in developing most QBs, and how hard it is for veterans to un-learn bad habits and reflexes. Who knows what might've been had Shanahan drafted Plummer in '97 instead of Griese in '98? What we DO know is that the late nineties Cardinals were one of the NFLs perpetual Springfield tire fires, and forced Plummer to heavily improvise just to make them competitive; by the time he escaped to Denver six seasons later, the damage was done. All that also applies to Cutler going from Shanahan to Lovie Smith just two years into HIS career.

[I Eat Staples]

McDouche was a douche. Not surprising.

I don't know how anyone ever blamed Cutler. Even if all McDouche did was attempt to trade him for Matt Cassell, that should be all you need to know. I don't know how any self-respecting person could work for someone like McDouche.

Boy am I glad those dark, dark times are a thing of the past. That was not a fun time to be a Broncos fan.

[BroncoJoe]

I hate them both.

[Ravage!!!]

Yet Plummers job WAS in jeopardy, because he'd always been unreliably erratic. His career completion percentage is in the mid-fifties, and his TDs outnumbered Ints just 4 of his 10 seasons. The story of our '05 season was Shanny and Kubiaks constant combined effort finally settling him down into a QB who played well from the pocket, rather than running around like 4th graders playing football at recess: He completed >60% of passes and threw just 7 Ints, both of which he previously managed ONLY in 2003. But he disastrously reverted to form with 4 turnovers in the AFCCG, so we drafted Cutler as insurance.

The real moral of that story is the difference coaching makes in developing most QBs, and how hard it is for veterans to un-learn bad habits and reflexes. Who knows what might've been had Shanahan drafted Plummer in '97 instead of Griese in '98? What we DO know is that the late nineties Cardinals were one of the NFLs perpetual Springfield tire fires, and forced Plummer to heavily improvise just to make them competitive; by the time he escaped to Denver six seasons later, the damage was done. All that also applies to Cutler going from Shanahan to Lovie Smith just two years into HIS career.

Lovie Smith is just horrendous for QBs. That's pretty well established as well.

[Valar Morghulis]

I was never a great fan of plummer, but I missed a lot of games in his early days, but I do remember being super excited for Cutler taking over.

Even in 2011 I was quite a believer in cutlers ability, had he not injured his finger that year, the bears were marching, had he not injured his finger that year, the bears likely beat us.

So in actual fact, we need to blame Cutler for Tebow time! And the years of crazy that followed it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I was never a great fan of plummer, but I missed a lot of games in his early days, but I do remember being super excited for Cutler taking over.

Even in 2011 I was quite a believer in cutlers ability, had he not injured his finger that year, the bears were marching, had he not injured his finger that year, the bears likely beat us.

So in actual fact, we need to blame Cutler for Tebow time! And the years of crazy that followed it.

Without Cutler and McDaniels having been here we have no Manning. Sometimes the storms are followed by the brightest days.

[Cugel]

Interesting that you mentioned Rodgers. I have been thinking about something: In 2005, Shanahan said that he traded out of Round 1 with Washington because he felt that the players he wanted would be gone. I wonder if Rodgers was one of those guys. If he was, it's just another time where Mike's impatience may have caught up with him.

Well, in 2005 Shanny wasn't thinking about drafting a QB in the first round. He was all-in on the Jake Plummer experiment - until the AFC Championship loss proved that Plummer's limitations would always prevent him from winning a SB. So, Shanny went looking for a QB in 2006, not knowing that they were all busts, and that he would have to wait until the 2008 draft and then draft Joe Flacco at #17 to get a QB worth having.

The article is interesting from Ted Sundquist's opinion that if Shanny and Cutler had stayed in Denver somehow Cutler would have developed into a consistent QB. About the best that can be said in favor of this theory is "maybe, but maybe not too."

A lot of Cutler's failure is on Cutler. He never won over his teammates either here or in Chicago, he failed to improve, etc. True, he faced some hostility from Bears players who wanted to keep Kyle Orton, but he's had plenty of time to convince them. To all appearances he hasn't done it.

[TXBRONC]

Without Cutler and McDaniels having been here we have no Manning. Sometimes the storms are followed by the brightest days.

Just for you Al.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOrSdcArDI

[BroncoJoe]

Well, in 2005 Shanny wasn't thinking about drafting a QB in the first round. He was all-in on the Jake Plummer experiment - until the AFC Championship loss proved that Plummer's limitations would always prevent him from winning a SB. So, Shanny went looking for a QB in 2006, not knowing that they were all busts, and that he would have to wait until the 2008 draft and then draft Joe Flacco at #17 to get a QB worth having.

The article is interesting from Ted Sundquist's opinion that if Shanny and Cutler had stayed in Denver somehow Cutler would have developed into a consistent QB. About the best that can be said in favor of this theory is "maybe, but maybe not too."

A lot of Cutler's failure is on Cutler. He never won over his teammates either here or in Chicago, he failed to improve, etc. True, he faced some hostility from Bears players who wanted to keep Kyle Orton, but he's had plenty of time to convince them. To all appearances he hasn't done it.

This has absolutely zero value. You should have hit the Cancel button instead of the Post Quick Reply.

[BroncoJoe]

Cutler would have been a far different (i.e. better) QB if Shanahan had not been fired.

And I'm not a fan of Cutler.

[BroncoWave]

This has absolutely zero value. You should have hit the Cancel button instead of the Post Quick Reply.

He actually should have hit the "delete account" button.

[7DnBrnc53]

Well, in 2005 Shanny wasn't thinking about drafting a QB in the first round. He was all-in on the Jake Plummer experiment - until the AFC Championship loss proved that Plummer's limitations would always prevent him from winning a SB. So, Shanny went looking for a QB in 2006, not knowing that they were all busts, and that he would have to wait until the 2008 draft and then draft Joe Flacco at #17 to get a QB worth having.


We don't know if Shanny wasn't looking for a QB in 05. Plummer had a solid season in 2004, but he still had some bad moments, like the 4 INT game at SD (although a lot of those weren't his fault), and the time against Miami where he flipped off the fans. It's possible that Mike was thinking about moving on from Jake going into that draft, but he traded down because he felt that A-Rod or Smith wouldn't be there late in Round 1.

[Joel]

We don't know if Shanny wasn't looking for a QB in 05. Plummer had a solid season in 2004, but he still had some bad moments, like the 4 INT game at SD (although a lot of those weren't his fault), and the time against Miami where he flipped off the fans. It's possible that Mike was thinking about moving on from Jake going into that draft, but he traded down because he felt that A-Rod or Smith wouldn't be there late in Round 1.
I wouldn't even say Plummers '04 season was solid: He led the league in Ints and posted a pretty pedestrian 84.5 PR; it was a definite regression from his career-best in '03. 2005 looked like '03—right up till the whole thing unraveled for good in the '05 AFCCG. So you're right, there's good reason to think Shanny was already browsing QBs in the '05 preseason. Whether he was, much less whom he considered, is probably known only to him and God; the way Shanny did things then, I'm unsure he'd have said a word to Sundquist until/unless about to pull the trigger.

[Simple Jaded]

This time next year we'll all be arguing about Cutlers body language and and who's to blame for his ints.

Can't wait.

[TXBRONC]

We don't know if Shanny wasn't looking for a QB in 05. Plummer had a solid season in 2004, but he still had some bad moments, like the 4 INT game at SD (although a lot of those weren't his fault), and the time against Miami where he flipped off the fans. It's possible that Mike was thinking about moving on from Jake going into that draft, but he traded down because he felt that A-Rod or Smith wouldn't be there late in Round 1.

IIRC Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and he tied Elway for what was at the time singal season record of 27 tds but that was offset by the 20 interceptions. It was 04 season Shanahan scaled back the offense. That did not set well with Shanahan.