Time to bench Peyton Manning

[Northman]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/10/11/9501267/bench-peyton-manning-broncos-raiders-instant-reactions

For the record, i wouldnt bench Manning right now. We are still winning in spite of his stupid decision making so we have that going for us at the moment. But, its easy to see why people would be concerned about his play and the effect it can have on the defense long term.


**Note: I refuse to qualify away Manning's INT in the endzone by saying Hillman should have caught a TD the play before. I will not qualify DT missing a hard catch in the endzone later in the game either. Human beings play the game, not cyborgs. Games are determined on the field, not on a piece of paper. If you qualify away those plays, then you qualify away Chris Harri's pick six because that was a bad WR route that never should have happened. You qualify away 2 missed FGs because one was low and the other, who knows, but I'm sure there was a reason. You also qualify away Von's strip sack because Carr was doing very good up until then. Losers qualify things. Winners build bridges and move on. I'm asking you all to be winners and not qualify things to try to make cheap excuses as to why Manning is washed up.
Let's start with this stat that says everything.

[dogfish]

a more pressing issue is whether we can continue to justify keeping an aging and mostly used-up second string punter around. . .



:defense:

[Northman]

a more pressing issue is whether we can continue to justify keeping an aging and mostly used-up second string punter around. . .



:defense:


I dont know, i think he still has way more value at this point. Great guy and so cheap i dont think he is even getting paid by the team.

[Dapper Dan]

We have a second string punter?

[Dapper Dan]

I agree with North.

Has any undefeated team decided to bench their starting quarterback?

[BroncoWave]

There is literally a zero percent chance we bench Manning unless this team just starts to come off the rails and lose a bunch of games. As long as we are winning, there is no way he gets benched. That could just have a catastrophic effect in the locker room, especially if Brock were to come in and do worse. For better or worse, you just have to ride it out with Manning this year and hope for the best. This absolutely has to be his last season though. I didn't love the idea of bringing him back this year but I understood it. I will be furious and really question Elway's decision making if we bring him back next year.

[Rick]

Thing that sucks now if we ride with Manning, and more so because we didn't make the switch early, is even though they have seen the progressions in practice and more reps in pre season, the coaching staff really still can't say 100% what they have in Brock.

At the latest, end of the season will be the end of the line for Manning and they need to make a decision long term on an unknown.

I still wish we had rolled with Brock from the start this year. He just fits this offense better. For better or worse, before making a long term decision, the coaches could have had a better idea about signing Brock or moving on.

[TXBRONC]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/10/11/9501267/bench-peyton-manning-broncos-raiders-instant-reactions

For the record, i wouldnt bench Manning right now. We are still winning in spite of his stupid decision making so we have that going for us at the moment. But, its easy to see why people would be concerned about his play and the effect it can have on the defense long term.

That's reality. As long as Denver is winning he won't be benched. Right now the bye-week can't come soon enough.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Manning can still do some things well, but push the ball down the field isn't one of them.

[Valar Morghulis]

Just like moving our O-line last off season, sticking with manning this off season was the right decision at the time with the information we had at the time.

Retrospectively, with hind sight, perhaps both decisions were errant.

But I thought manning played pretty good last night. The end zone interception was bad, the second was a great play by woodson IMO

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Just like moving our O-line last off season, sticking with manning this off season was the right decision at the time with the information we had at the time.

Retrospectively, with hind sight, perhaps both decisions were errant.

But I thought manning played pretty good last night. The end zone interception was bad, the second was a great play by woodson IMO

The second was a great play, but it was also a reflection of Manning's arm talent. The ball was a rainbow.

[gregbroncs]

The second was a great play, but it was also a reflection of Manning's arm talent. The ball was a rainbow.It was a great defensive play. But the pass was still terrible, it was behind the receiver and a high floating pass. This time the defense won the battle for the ball but Manning has thrown those jump balls all season.

[broncofaninfla]

If Hillman and Thomas catch the two TD's that were thrown this way I doubt we'd even have this discussion. While Manning isn't the QB he once was I do feel he can be as good as we need him to be.

[gregbroncs]

If Hillman and Thomas catch the two TD's that were thrown this way I doubt we'd even have this discussion. While Manning isn't the QB he once was I do feel he can be as good as we need him to be.If the receivers hadn't bailed Manning out all game this is a game the Broncos lose. That argument goes both ways. I no longer trust Manning to run this team, He's become Trent Dilfer. If we win it all it will be in spite of Manning, which is what we have done all season so far.

[Yashahla17]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/10/11/9501267/bench-peyton-manning-broncos-raiders-instant-reactions

For the record, i wouldnt bench Manning right now. We are still winning in spite of his stupid decision making so we have that going for us at the moment. But, its easy to see why people would be concerned about his play and the effect it can have on the defense long term.

I wish I could salute this post so many times so fast that the server crashed (joke) . But this is 100% facts. All I see around here is excuses excuses excuses. There's no fixing old and washed up. It's over.

[Yashahla17]

There is literally a zero percent chance we bench Manning unless this team just starts to come off the rails and lose a bunch of games. As long as we are winning, there is no way he gets benched. That could just have a catastrophic effect in the locker room, especially if Brock were to come in and do worse. For better or worse, you just have to ride it out with Manning this year and hope for the best. This absolutely has to be his last season though. I didn't love the idea of bringing him back this year but I understood it. I will be furious and really question Elway's decision making if we bring him back next year.

How can Brock be worse than 5tds and 7ints? People seem to forget the offense this entire offense has practiced rep after rep the entire season just got canned for ONE player and it's not even helping him.

[Dzone]

Benching the quarterback is not the answer when you have a starting running back getting 22 yards on 11 carries. Thats pathetic

[Yashahla17]

Just like moving our O-line last off season, sticking with manning this off season was the right decision at the time with the information we had at the time.

Retrospectively, with hind sight, perhaps both decisions were errant.

But I thought manning played pretty good last night. The end zone interception was bad, the second was a great play by woodson IMO

The second ing was a great play? a ball that hung in the air for literally 7 seconds and only traveled 25 yards? Lol. Wow. If he had a real arm that pass is a completion on a rope.

[Yashahla17]

The second was a great play, but it was also a reflection of Manning's arm talent. The ball was a rainbow.

Exactly a ball traveling 25 yards but yet floats in the air for 8 seconds is why it got picked.

[Yashahla17]

If Hillman and Thomas catch the two TD's that were thrown this way I doubt we'd even have this discussion. While Manning isn't the QB he once was I do feel he can be as good as we need him to be.

If if if if if. 5 weeks in a row of If. Smh come on man.

[Yashahla17]

Benching the quarterback is not the answer when you have a starting running back getting 22 yards on 11 carries. Thats pathetic
When the offensive line and backs train the entire off season and camp and pre season in one scheme and then it's swept away for some crappy pistol shotgun whatever kind of offense it'll cause the entire unit to suffer. That's what has happened.

[underrated29]

So you think Brock instantly fixes the online and run game?

[MOtorboat]

Couldn't disagree more. Last time the Broncos benched a quarterback after taking them to three straight playoffs and had a winning season at hand, the season was tanked and so were the next two. Maybe Manning is done, maybe he's not, but Denver should ride him until he doesn't get them to the playoffs or retires.

The odds of Osweiler being a hall of famer are really low. Of any franchise (although there are a number of them), Denver fans should know about what happens when the HOFer moves on.

[Slick]

So you think Brock instantly fixes the online and run game?

It's possible that he could complete some more passes down the field, or make some plays with his legs that might create a little more space at the line of scrimmage.

Who knows.

[Slick]

I liked the editor's note.

[Ravage!!!]

Thing that sucks now if we ride with Manning, and more so because we didn't make the switch early, is even though they have seen the progressions in practice and more reps in pre season, the coaching staff really still can't say 100% what they have in Brock.

At the latest, end of the season will be the end of the line for Manning and they need to make a decision long term on an unknown.

I still wish we had rolled with Brock from the start this year. He just fits this offense better. For better or worse, before making a long term decision, the coaches could have had a better idea about signing Brock or moving on.

but we don't know if it would have been better. We dont' really know if he would have been better for this offense, because we don't know if he's a starting QB or not. It's fun to speculate, and guess, and HOPE..but the reality is, that's all it is right now. It's very easy to say "we should have just blown off this season to test our young QB." But that's not what Elway ever wants to do. That's not what Kubiak wants to do...that's CERTAINLY not what the other players want to do. The only people that would be willing to do that, is the fans. Their Bronco careers are for life.

[Dapper Dan]

Who the ****?

[wayninja]

I like how a receiver catching a ball that comes to him is "bailing out" the quarterback. I need to remember that one.

[Yashahla17]

So you think Brock instantly fixes the online and run game?

Yes because the offense the entire unit practiced the entire off season would be ran. The pocket will move different places as the offense is designed to do. The qb launch points will move. The boots the play action all comes back. Putting Brock in helps the entire offense. Will he make it a 2 sacks the rest of the way o line no. But it would get drastically better due to the o line being comfortable in what they have worked at the entire off season doing.

[Yashahla17]

but we don't know if it would have been better. We dont' really know if he would have been better for this offense, because we don't know if he's a starting QB or not. It's fun to speculate, and guess, and HOPE..but the reality is, that's all it is right now. It's very easy to say "we should have just blown off this season to test our young QB." But that's not what Elway ever wants to do. That's not what Kubiak wants to do...that's CERTAINLY not what the other players want to do. The only people that would be willing to do that, is the fans. Their Bronco careers are for life.

THIS offense isn't what the entire unit has worked at the whole off season.... What part of that aren't many of you getting? Nubian scrapped everything this o line and running backs have worked at in week 2 for one guy who can't play in ANY offense.

[Yashahla17]

Holy smokes these manning lovers are worst than those Tebow lovers. Good grief.

[Ravage!!!]

Holy smokes these manning lovers are worst than those Tebow lovers. Good grief.

Don't be ridiculous. We have success with Manning for a long time. We are 5-0. No one has given any kind of reason as to where they think Brock would be better, other than speculation and guess. That's all it is. You just DON'T take your 5-0 team and hand it over to a guy that has NEVER started a single game in the NFL unless your starter is injured. It's just BAD coaching for many reasons. Fans complaining, isn't a good enough reason.

[wayninja]

What's to love about one of the greatest quarterbacks who has ever played the game?

[artie_dale]

I love Peyton as much as anybody (not even exaggerating), but the way this defense is playing, I'm sure Brock could put up similar numbers to what Peyton has put up and we'd still be in the same situation. Its crazy.

I only wonder if our offense would be better if Brock was the starter. I don't think it could be worse (its pretty bad right now).

Also, post game locker room speeches (Kubes & CHJ)... looking at the body language of the players, I instantly became a little worried. Though they are 5-0, seeing them after that win, I hope I'm wrong but the players seemed disheartened. Like they are tired of the offense sucking.

Anyone else get that vibe after seeing that?

[Yashahla17]

Unbelievable. If anyone thinks we're 5-0 because of manning there clearly worst than Tebow lovers. Colts fans who should really be acting this way has moved on for the unknown. Here we have desperate Broncos fans drooling over a couple division crowns and are attached to manning deeper than Colts fans lol. Sad story. I warned you all just remember. Manning is going to leave the game on a Damn cart. Book it.

[wayninja]

Unbelievable. If anyone thinks we're 5-0 because of manning there clearly worst than Tebow lovers. Colts fans who should really be acting this way has moved on for the unknown. Here we have desperate Broncos fans drooling over a couple division crowns and are attached to manning deeper than Colts fans lol. Sad story. I warned you all just remember. Manning is going to leave the game on a Damn cart. Book it.

Can I just ask a question though?

Why are you so angry?

[Yashahla17]

I love Peyton as much as anybody (not even exaggerating), but the way this defense is playing, I'm sure Brock could put up similar numbers to what Peyton has put up and we'd still be in the same situation. Its crazy.

I only wonder if our offense would be better if Brock was the starter. I don't think it could be worse (its pretty bad right now).

Also, post game locker room speeches (Kubes & CHJ)... looking at the body language of the players, I instantly became a little worried. Though they are 5-0, seeing them after that win, I hope I'm wrong but the players seemed disheartened. Like they are tired of the offense sucking.

Anyone else get that vibe after seeing that?

It's almost like they know there 5-0 isn't sustainable. So it'll be all for nothing. People talk about losing the locker room. Nubian will lose the locker room if he shows he don't have the guts to make the right call.

[Yashahla17]

Can I just ask a question though?

Why are you so angry?

Because for once we have a legit shot at a super bowl with this defense and manning Is finished and the staff and elway don't have the guts to make the call.

[wayninja]

Because for once we have a legit shot at a super bowl with this defense and manning Is finished and the staff and elway don't have the guts to make the call.

And that makes you angry? Really?

You really think that Elway/Kubiak would not bench Manning if they felt they had a better alternative?

Maybe you should apply for the job?

[Yashahla17]

Maybe.

[gregbroncs]

I'm concerned because the way we are winning these games is not sustainable and the team has to know that.

[Ravage!!!]

Unbelievable. If anyone thinks we're 5-0 because of manning there clearly worst than Tebow lovers. Colts fans who should really be acting this way has moved on for the unknown. Here we have desperate Broncos fans drooling over a couple division crowns and are attached to manning deeper than Colts fans lol. Sad story. I warned you all just remember. Manning is going to leave the game on a Damn cart. Book it.

N ope... once again you are wrong.

I've stated many times that Manning is a detriment to this team. His play is poor, and weak, and his throws threaten no one downfield. But what you are saying that it's a "given" that Brock woudl be better simply... 'cause. You have nothing to offer other than "he probably would be able to offer mobility." Big deal. Mobility means nothing if you can't pass. Ask RG3. Ask Vick. We don't know what Brock offers to this team. What we DO know, is that Manning is one of the smartest QBs in the NFL, and THAT is extremely valuable. What we do know, is that even though Manning isn't as good as MANNING...he's still a much better QB than most of the QBs in the NFL.

So your speculation and GUESSES that Brock would be better.... is nothing more than that. It's hope. It's guess work.

In the meantime, we are 5-0 with a HoF QB who is OBVIOUSLY the leader of this team. Do you REALLY REALLY think the coach can simply 'bench' Manning without having the teammates guess the intelligence of that move at this point? DO you really think you keep a locker room when you do that? These aren't kids in the locker room. They don't simply run through a wall because you point at it and say "go." Coaching the NFL isn't the same as coaching NCAA or HS.... you have to keep the locker room believing in you. Making that kind of move, at THIS point...... would be premature and a bad move.

Also.. to think that we "we FINALLY have a chance at a Super Bowl" with Brock...is just absurd to the p oint of thinking you might be Brocks twin sister or something.

[Slick]

I love Peyton as much as anybody (not even exaggerating), but the way this defense is playing, I'm sure Brock could put up similar numbers to what Peyton has put up and we'd still be in the same situation. Its crazy.

I only wonder if our offense would be better if Brock was the starter. I don't think it could be worse (its pretty bad right now).

Also, post game locker room speeches (Kubes & CHJ)... looking at the body language of the players, I instantly became a little worried. Though they are 5-0, seeing them after that win, I hope I'm wrong but the players seemed disheartened. Like they are tired of the offense sucking.

Anyone else get that vibe after seeing that?

I didn't watch Kubiak's presser but I saw Manning's. He was out of it. He knows he's playing like shit. It's written all over his face.

[artie_dale]

Because for once we have a legit shot at a super bowl with this defense and manning Is finished and the staff and elway don't have the guts to make the call.

Hey, I understand the desire to both give Manning the shot to bounce back and the desire to make the change.

But, you have got to admit (or at least consider), that benching Manning is nothing remotely close to the same thing as benching Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown, or even Matthew Stafford. The unfortunate consequences that benching Peyton (a HOF and arguably the GOAT QB if MVPs mean more than SB rings) could produce would have to do with disrespect, ruining a reputation (both his, Elway's, and Kubiak's), a media criticism hail storm which would be a huge distraction to the entire team (especially Brock if he himself doesn't play at a high level), and lastly, it could also make future HOF free agents questions John Elway's commitment (which all is very complicated).

So, imo, it's not about having guts in this situation. It's basically being between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't be surprised if folks were secretly hoping Peyton gets dinged/hurt/injured, just so that decision is made for them.

I do think the best thing Peyton has going for him better than Brock is his pre-snap wisdom. As far as physical skills go, I have to give Brock the edge (from what Peyton has shown us this season).

[Yashahla17]

It's like people don't see where this is headed. Manning press conference week after week says he's finished and defeated mentally because he just can't do it anymore. And we have selfish people who want to trot him out there to fail. If anything I'm showing manning real love by demanding he's benched to save him from himself

[Ravage!!!]

I didn't watch Kubiak's presser but I saw Manning's. He was out of it. He knows he's playing like shit. It's written all over his face.

I think we see Brock this year. I think Manning "pulls" something. I bet we see a muscle pull, a leg injury.. something. SOMETHING will happen that will put Brock in the lineup. Another speculation could be, that an "injury" could be a way to put Brock in the lineup and save face for Manning.

[Yashahla17]

N ope... once again you are wrong.

I've stated many times that Manning is a detriment to this team. His play is poor, and weak, and his throws threaten no one downfield. But what you are saying that it's a "given" that Brock woudl be better simply... 'cause. You have nothing to offer other than "he probably would be able to offer mobility." Big deal. Mobility means nothing if you can't pass. Ask RG3. Ask Vick. We don't know what Brock offers to this team. What we DO know, is that Manning is one of the smartest QBs in the NFL, and THAT is extremely valuable. What we do know, is that even though Manning isn't as good as MANNING...he's still a much better QB than most of the QBs in the NFL.

So your speculation and GUESSES that Brock would be better.... is nothing more than that. It's hope. It's guess work.

In the meantime, we are 5-0 with a HoF QB who is OBVIOUSLY the leader of this team. Do you REALLY REALLY think the coach can simply 'bench' Manning without having the teammates guess the intelligence of that move at this point? DO you really think you keep a locker room when you do that? These aren't kids in the locker room. They don't simply run through a wall because you point at it and say "go." Coaching the NFL isn't the same as coaching NCAA or HS.... you have to keep the locker room believing in you. Making that kind of move, at THIS point...... would be premature and a bad move.

Also.. to think that we "we FINALLY have a chance at a Super Bowl" with Brock...is just absurd to the p oint of thinking you might be Brocks twin sister or something.

Brock can run the offense. Manning can't. Why should I have to go any further?

[Ravage!!!]

It's like people don't see where this is headed. Manning press conference week after week says he's finished and defeated mentally because he just can't do it anymore. And we have selfish people who want to trot him out there to fail. If anything I'm showing manning real love by demanding he's benched to save him from himself

Now you are just being ....assinine.

[Ravage!!!]

Brock can run the offense. Manning can't. Why should I have to go any further?

Speculation and guess. That's all you have to make that statement.

[Yashahla17]

Hey, I understand the desire to both give Manning the shot to bounce back and the desire to make the change.

But, you have got to admit (or at least consider), that benching Manning is nothing remotely close to the same thing as benching Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown, or even Matthew Stafford. The unfortunate consequences that benching Peyton (a HOF and arguably the GOAT QB if MVPs mean more than SB rings) could produce would have to do with disrespect, ruining a reputation (both his, Elway's, and Kubiak's), a media criticism hail storm which would be a huge distraction to the entire team (especially Brock if he himself doesn't play at a high level), and lastly, it could also make future HOF free agents questions John Elway's commitment (which all is very complicated).

So, imo, it's not about having guts in this situation. It's basically being between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't be surprised if folks were secretly hoping Peyton gets dinged/hurt/injured, just so that decision is made for them.

I do think the best thing Peyton has going for him better than Brock is his pre-snap wisdom. As far as physical skills go, I have to give Brock the edge (from what Peyton has shown us this season).

As hard as it might be the call has to be made. It wouldn't smear anybody's rep imo. It would show to me that the front office has the guts along with the coaches to make a correct call.

[gregbroncs]

N ope... once again you are wrong.

I've stated many times that Manning is a detriment to this team. His play is poor, and weak, and his throws threaten no one downfield. But what you are saying that it's a "given" that Brock woudl be better simply... 'cause. You have nothing to offer other than "he probably would be able to offer mobility." Big deal. Mobility means nothing if you can't pass. Ask RG3. Ask Vick. We don't know what Brock offers to this team. What we DO know, is that Manning is one of the smartest QBs in the NFL, and THAT is extremely valuable. What we do know, is that even though Manning isn't as good as MANNING...he's still a much better QB than most of the QBs in the NFL.

So your speculation and GUESSES that Brock would be better.... is nothing more than that. It's hope. It's guess work.

In the meantime, we are 5-0 with a HoF QB who is OBVIOUSLY the leader of this team. Do you REALLY REALLY think the coach can simply 'bench' Manning without having the teammates guess the intelligence of that move at this point? DO you really think you keep a locker room when you do that? These aren't kids in the locker room. They don't simply run through a wall because you point at it and say "go." Coaching the NFL isn't the same as coaching NCAA or HS.... you have to keep the locker room believing in you. Making that kind of move, at THIS point...... would be premature and a bad move.

Also.. to think that we "we FINALLY have a chance at a Super Bowl" with Brock...is just absurd to the p oint of thinking you might be Brocks twin sister or something.Pretty good post over all. But I really disagree with the statement he's still a much better QB than most of the QB's in the NFL. The way he is playing right now he may just be the worst starting QB in the NFL so far this season. If he's not the worst, then he's not far from it. And this season is all that matters right now. I think this team is undefeated with every starting QB in the league right now. Because we have the worst offense and we are undefeated.

[tripp]

Should we bench Hillman and CJ too? 9 carries for 20 yards by CJ.

[gregbroncs]

As hard as it might be the call has to be made. It wouldn't smear anybody's rep imo. It would show to me that the front office has the guts along with the coaches to make a correct call.
It's simply too early to make that call though. They are undefeated, that gives them time to play it out. No reason to potentially blow the season until forced to do so.

[wayninja]

it's like people don't see where this is headed. Manning press conference week after week says he's finished and defeated mentally because he just can't do it anymore. And we have selfish people who want to trot him out there to fail. If anything i'm showing manning real love by demanding he's benched to save him from himself

lmao.

[Ravage!!!]

Brock can run the offense. Manning can't. Why should I have to go any further?

N ow.. I'll also say this. I'm not saying that Brock can not run the offense. I'm saying that we just don't know. WE have zero idea. We dont' know. We DO know that Brock has never played a single game in the NFL. We know that Manning has the longest division ROAD Game win streak in NFL history. We DO know that Manning is smarter than anyone else on the field. We don't know what Brock's football intelligence is.

So although Brock MIGHT be able to do the job, we just dont know. Handing that job over to an unknown, at this point, is what people are hesitant about. It really just doesnt' make sense to make that move.....yet.

[wayninja]

Should we bench Hillman and CJ too? 9 carries for 20 yards by CJ.

No, because those numbers instantly go up when Brock comes in.

[Yashahla17]

Speculation and guess. That's all you have to make that statement.

Did Brock not look good running it all camp and pre season? Don't forget ge battled this #1 defense in camp and won. Manning looked horrible in otas. Horrible in camp ands horrible in pre season games. Horrible in the regular season. Go back and watch the 5th stringer camp bodies picking manning off daily in training camp.

[Ravage!!!]

Pretty good post over all. But I really disagree with the statement he's still a much better QB than most of the QB's in the NFL. The way he is playing right now he may just be the worst starting QB in the NFL so far this season. If he's not the worst, then he's not far from it. And this season is all that matters right now. I think this team is undefeated with every starting QB in the league right now. Because we have the worst offense and we are undefeated.

I'll disagree with this because we just don't know how much Manning is bringing to the offense with his reads and audibles. We are actually judging Manning against himself. We know what we expect from Manning, and when he doesn't play like himself, we see it. How many times does manning move the protection, or make the adjustments that many/most other QBs wouldn't? I dont think Manning is near the bottom of the NFL as far as QBs go. I'm not blind, and can certainly see he's playing terribly, but I dont think some are giving enough credit to what he DOES bring to the table.

[Ravage!!!]

Did Brock not look good running it all camp and pre season? Don't forget ge battled this #1 defense in camp and won. Manning looked horrible in otas. Horrible in camp ands horrible in pre season games. Horrible in the regular season. Go back and watch the 5th stringer camp bodies picking manning off daily in training camp.

Dude.. don't use pre-season as an example of how good he is. Come on, that just diminishes your agument rather than strengthens it. You are better off just saying that you dont know but are wiling to take a chance over telling 'preseason' success.

[gregbroncs]

Did Brock not look good running it all camp and pre season? Don't forget ge battled this #1 defense in camp and won. Manning looked horrible in otas. Horrible in camp ands horrible in pre season games. Horrible in the regular season. Go back and watch the 5th stringer camp bodies picking manning off daily in training camp.Camp and preseason are worthless for that sort of information, especially with new coaches and a new system.

[Ravage!!!]

Did Brock not look good running it all camp and pre season? Don't forget ge battled this #1 defense in camp and won. Manning looked horrible in otas. Horrible in camp ands horrible in pre season games. Horrible in the regular season. Go back and watch the 5th stringer camp bodies picking manning off daily in training camp.

Again.. Brock might be AWESOME. I know I HOPE he is, so that when the time is right to bring him in, he rocks it! But its the timing that doesn't make sense. NOT Brock himself. I have nothing against Brock, I have a problem with the timing of making a switch at this point. That's really what it comes down to.

[wayninja]

Brock was given the opportunity and just couldn't win the starting Job... I can't even finish this line of thinking through giggling...

[Dapper Dan]

Brock was given the opportunity and just couldn't win the starting Job... I can't even finish this line of thinking through giggling...

Semen looked good too. Maybe he's better than barock osweiler

[Yashahla17]

Smh @ Brock was giving a fair shake to start. If the Jersey was Mccown instead of manning he's benched for Brock due to poor play day in day out.

[Yashahla17]

Semen looked good too. Maybe he's better than barock osweiler

Your just making stuff up now. Sad story

[wayninja]

Semen looked good too. Maybe he's better than barock osweiler

I don't think I've wanted to look at semen long enough to determine that. We have a lounge for that sort of thing.

[Ravage!!!]

Smh @ Brock was giving a fair shake to start. If the Jersey was Mccown instead of manning he's benched for Brock due to poor play day in day out.

Of course Brock didn't have a fair shot at winning the job. It's Peyton Manning.

[artie_dale]

Should we bench Hillman and CJ too? 9 carries for 20 yards by CJ.

That 2nd Rod Woodson INT is a result of Peyton's in ability to get deep balls to rcvrs quickly. That being said, I'm not entirely sure whether our lack of running the ball is due to a poor running game or the defense's decision to focus on stopping our run because they can easily react to Peyton's floaters.

[Slick]

I think we see Brock this year. I think Manning "pulls" something. I bet we see a muscle pull, a leg injury.. something. SOMETHING will happen that will put Brock in the lineup. Another speculation could be, that an "injury" could be a way to put Brock in the lineup and save face for Manning.

I'd like to see it just to satisfy my own personal curiosity.

[underrated29]

Yes because the offense the entire unit practiced the entire off season would be ran. The pocket will move different places as the offense is designed to do. The qb launch points will move. The boots the play action all comes back. Putting Brock in helps the entire offense. Will he make it a 2 sacks the rest of the way o line no. But it would get drastically better due to the o line being comfortable in what they have worked at the entire off season doing.



Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you say that the oline will block better because brock is standing behind them instead of manning standing behind them?

[Yashahla17]

I don't want to go back to hoping manning gets hurt like I did in training camp. But it's inevitable. If it's the only way manning gets benched then it is what it is.

[Yashahla17]

Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you say that the oline will block better because brock is standing behind them instead of manning standing behind them?

If that's what you read then you must get back to the basics of reading brother.

[NightTerror218]

That 2nd Rod Woodson INT is a result of Peyton's in ability to get deep balls to rcvrs quickly. That being said, I'm not entirely sure whether our lack of running the ball is due to a poor running game or the defense's decision to focus on stopping our run because they can easily react to Peyton's floaters.

It's the same defensive play Seattle implemented in SB and Colts implmented in playoffs. Cut off all the medium route passes. Corners press WR or ay closer to LOS. Bring safeties down, give lots of 1 on 1 with WR. RB are running against stacked boxes with a bad run blocking line.

[Shazam!]

It is the fault of Denver Brass, Elway included, to field one of, or THE, worst Olines in the League and expect our 39 year old QB to play at a high-level. It's ludicrous.

Bad move getting rid of Clark, Martinez, and even Franklin at this point.

I know hindsight and all that, but this is the bottom line in my opinion. Peyton isn't Peyton because he's getting scared and has no confidence in any kind of protection.

[artie_dale]

It is the fault of Denver Brass, Elway included, to field one of, or THE, worst Olines in the League and expect our 39 year old QB to play at a high-level. It's ludicrous.

Bad move getting rid of Clark, Martinez, and even Franklin at this point.

I know hindsight and all that, but this is the bottom line in my opinion. Peyton isn't Peyton because he's getting scared and has no confidence in any kind of protection.

Well, maybe that was the idea... in order to fix other areas, they incorporated Peyton's ability to make his Oline better than it actually is (I think he did that his first year with Clady on IR) and invested in the defense (which seems to have worked on the defensive side). So, had the Brass not done that, would we be 5-0? Would having the same oline as last season be the difference maker this season? All speculation still.

[Slick]

It is the fault of Denver Brass, Elway included, to field one of, or THE, worst Olines in the League and expect our 39 year old QB to play at a high-level. It's ludicrous.

Bad move getting rid of Clark, Martinez, and even Franklin at this point.

I know hindsight and all that, but this is the bottom line in my opinion. Peyton isn't Peyton because he's getting scared and has no confidence in any kind of protection.

Agreed. If they were sure Manning was coming back before the draft and free-agency, the O line should have been a higher priority. If signing Mathis was all they could afford, fine, but get him signed and in camp so he's at 100% for the start of the season. Selling Clark off for peanuts doesn't seem like a good move at all, and didn't they do that after Clady was injured?

[underrated29]

If that's what you read then you must get back to the basics of reading brother.




Quote Originally Posted by Yashahla17 View Post
Yes because the offense the entire unit practiced the entire off season would be ran. The pocket will move different places as the offense is designed to do. The qb launch points will move. The boots the play action all comes back. Putting Brock in helps the entire offense. Will he make it a 2 sacks the rest of the way o line no. But it would get drastically better due to the o line being comfortable in what they have worked at the entire off season doing.


This is what you said.
How am I not to determine that you think the Oline will suddenly start blocking better because brock is back there?

In case you dont know, we are still running and blocking the zbs. The online is running and blocking the zbs. Same thing they have been running since OTS and TC. The oline is literally doing nothing new or different then they have been since we got Kubiak. Be it Brock standing behind them, peyton, or even Pat bowlen, they will still run the same thing they have been doing.

[gregbroncs]

Everybody blaming the O-line do you realize they played better the last 2 games? And that the offense did not improve because we still can't pass downfield, or run. The only time the Raiders got pressure was with blitzes. If Manning could make teams pay for Blitzing (like he used to) then the Raiders would not have been successful getting to him. If he could pass downfield then they couldn't put 8 guys on the line of scrimmage and 8 in the box at the same time. Corners don't play off of our receivers anymore because they don't have to. The speed of our receiver is irrelevant because the QB can't hit them without it floating downfield and nobody is afraid of covering that.

[NightTerror218]

Quote Originally Posted by Yashahla17 View Post
Yes because the offense the entire unit practiced the entire off season would be ran. The pocket will move different places as the offense is designed to do. The qb launch points will move. The boots the play action all comes back. Putting Brock in helps the entire offense. Will he make it a 2 sacks the rest of the way o line no. But it would get drastically better due to the o line being comfortable in what they have worked at the entire off season doing.

This is what you said.
How am I not to determine that you think the Oline will suddenly start blocking better because brock is back there?

In case you dont know, we are still running and blocking the zbs. The online is running and blocking the zbs. Same thing they have been running since OTS and TC. The oline is literally doing nothing new or different then they have been since we got Kubiak. Be it Brock standing behind them, peyton, or even Pat bowlen, they will still run the same thing they have been doing.

But for the RB it's difference. Because in shotgun RB has to be patient for homes to develop and then hit them hard. And in Kubiak's system RB comes in and almost full speed to the list and cuts and bursts through a hole. Which typically momentum will carry them 2 yards and break arm tackles. Add in pistol, they do not have full speed, and holes may be too small and not able to break arm tackles with speed.

This hybrid system is killing the running game IMO. The system worked better with Oz. It was plain vanilla ZBS but it was working.

[slim]

I think we see Brock this year. I think Manning "pulls" something. I bet we see a muscle pull, a leg injury.. something. SOMETHING will happen that will put Brock in the lineup. Another speculation could be, that an "injury" could be a way to put Brock in the lineup and save face for Manning.

I agree. They won't bench him, but he will end up on IR.

I suspect they will wait until he breaks the yardage record.

[Slick]

Re-reading your post Shazam. I think you meant Ramirez? I wasn't really sad to see him go.

[Yashahla17]

I agree. They won't bench him, but he will end up on IR.

I suspect they will wait until he breaks the yardage record.

He just passed Favre yesterday.

[Yashahla17]

Quote Originally Posted by Yashahla17 View Post
Yes because the offense the entire unit practiced the entire off season would be ran. The pocket will move different places as the offense is designed to do. The qb launch points will move. The boots the play action all comes back. Putting Brock in helps the entire offense. Will he make it a 2 sacks the rest of the way o line no. But it would get drastically better due to the o line being comfortable in what they have worked at the entire off season doing.


This is what you said.
How am I not to determine that you think the Oline will suddenly start blocking better because brock is back there?

In case you dont know, we are still running and blocking the zbs. The online is running and blocking the zbs. Same thing they have been running since OTS and TC. The oline is literally doing nothing new or different then they have been since we got Kubiak. Be it Brock standing behind them, peyton, or even Pat bowlen, they will still run the same thing they have been doing.

Okay

[Ravage!!!]

I agree. They won't bench him, but he will end up on IR.

I suspect they will wait until he breaks the yardage record.

Thats a good point. They might come out and say that Manning has been playing through a "severed nerve" that happened the week before the bye....(or whenever)..and thus give him an out.

[Slick]

He just passed Favre yesterday.

No. He needed more than 2100 yards before the regular season started.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/21/manning-may-break-favres-record-vs-packers-or-colts/

[Yashahla17]

Manning admitted in the summer he couldn't feel his finger tips anymore. So I doubt that's the plan. But it would be nice.verse going out on a cart.

[Yashahla17]

No. He needed more than 2100 yards before the regular season started.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/21/manning-may-break-favres-record-vs-packers-or-colts/

Oh your right. Well it'll be awhile before he gets 2100 yards.

[Ravage!!!]

No. He needed more than 2100 yards before the regular season started.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/21/manning-may-break-favres-record-vs-packers-or-colts/

heh.. after you mentioned that record, I was hoping it was sooner in the season.

[slim]

He only needs 913 more yards. So maybe 4 or 5 more games.

[Slick]

heh.. after you mentioned that record, I was hoping it was sooner in the season.

If this was last year or the year before, he'd be knocking on the door. Week 10 or 11 maybe.

[Valar Morghulis]

Semen looked good too. Maybe he's better than barock osweiler

i wish you would stop pushing your homosexual agenda on us all - stop talking about semen.

Because Barrack Ozweiler.

[Valar Morghulis]

He just passed Favre yesterday.

not in the regular season he didn't.

how you enjoying the forum Yash?

[Yashahla17]

not in the regular season he didn't.

how you enjoying the forum Yash?

Pretty entertaining.

[underrated29]

But for the RB it's difference. Because in shotgun RB has to be patient for homes to develop and then hit them hard. And in Kubiak's system RB comes in and almost full speed to the list and cuts and bursts through a hole. Which typically momentum will carry them 2 yards and break arm tackles. Add in pistol, they do not have full speed, and holes may be too small and not able to break arm tackles with speed.

This hybrid system is killing the running game IMO. The system worked better with Oz. It was plain vanilla ZBS but it was working.


i do not disagree



He only needs 913 more yards. So maybe 4 or 5 more games.

probably 6 or 7 at this point

[Timmy!]

:lol:

[cmc0605]

Peyton Manning is being asked to carry this whole offense every single play. It doesn't matter if he makes a bad decision.

Until someone else steps up, until we actually have confidence to run on 3rd and 1, blaming everything on Peyton is silly. Translating bad decisions into an arm that doesn't work is even sillier. There's inconsistent play and lack of chemistry all around. It's the coaches job to fix, not Peytons or Brocks. Thinking someone who is experience-wise almost a rookie is going to come in and fix the run game, fix the o-line, upgrade the TEs, get some depth at WR, and make everything gel and call the right pre-snap reads just because he can run a bootleg is absurd.

[Shazam!]

This is just absurd.

This is KUBIAKS problem to fix.

If they didn't field an incredible defense, they'd be 0-5 just as easily.

[Cugel]

Peyton Manning is being asked to carry this whole offense every single play. It doesn't matter if he makes a bad decision.

Until someone else steps up, until we actually have confidence to run on 3rd and 1, blaming everything on Peyton is silly. Translating bad decisions into an arm that doesn't work is even sillier. There's inconsistent play and lack of chemistry all around. It's the coaches job to fix, not Peytons or Brocks. Thinking someone who is experience-wise almost a rookie is going to come in and fix the run game, fix the o-line, upgrade the TEs, get some depth at WR, and make everything gel and call the right pre-snap reads just because he can run a bootleg is absurd.

Here's someone who understands and is sensible.

The reality is that things are not going to be better unless the OL plays better and they can run the ball better. Pretending that Osweiler would do better because he looked good in meaningless preseason games is just absurd. Not one NFL defense has ever tried to figure out "how do we stop Osweiler? What weaknesses does he have?"

Well, it's obvious that one weakness he has is inexperience. He has a slow release compared with Manning, so he holds the ball longer. With this feeble OL that would mean a lot more sacks, probably some strip sacks and fumbles, plus some INTs from Brock trying to throw under pressure.

There is no cavalry waiting over the hill to rescue this team. They are going to have to win with the talent they have on the roster right now, and even with the starters they have right now. Brock is just not a better alternative.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Ben Roethlisberger rides a cart into the locker room, his face contorted in pain. Tony Romo supports his crumpled shoulder with a sling. Drew Brees misses his second start in 11 years. Matthew Stafford's ribs and arms are battered. Andrew Luck is taking practice days off to nurse his ravaged body.

NFL quarterbacks took a beating in the first three weeks of the season, so much so that a long-simmering issue has been elevated into mainstream discussion. Offensive line play has deteriorated in a way that's apparent to both to the expert and novice eye, endangering the league's quarterback star system and threatening the aesthetic appeal of the game.

The situation has descended into an "epidemic," Hall of Fame executive Bill Polian said recently on ESPN, and there are no easy solutions.

"It's a sad state of affairs," Polian said. "And if it keeps up, we're going to be talking about backup quarterbacks playing a lot. Because when you've got problems with the offensive line, you get the quarterback on his back."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/181904/nfls-o-line-epidemic-threatens-its-qb-star-system

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from same article:


Along with allowing added pressure, offensive lines so far this season are providing less running room and taking more penalties than they did in the same stretch of time last season.

Average rushing yards before contact has dropped eight percent, from 2.35 yards per rush during the first three weeks of 2014 to 2.19 yards now. Accepted penalties for either holding or false starts, meanwhile, have risen 20 percent from a total of 219 during the first three weeks of last season to 275.

Those numbers are no surprise to offensive line coaches and longtime observers of the position who noted the trend long before this season's run of quarterback injuries.

full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/181904/nfls-o-line-epidemic-threatens-its-qb-star-system

[Joel]

Not everyone at MHR agrees with Pete's #HotTake, but that's the beauty of sports blogging, isn't it?
Yeah... remember when we thought ubiquitous internet access would mean countless intelligent, articulate and diverse people from cultures and disciplines all over the world sharing ideas? Turns out it just means digging for that stuff through a mountain of rants from the loud guy at the end of the bar and grammas cat pictures. We didn't connect the thoughtful and insightful: We just dumbed down computers.

[NightTerror218]

Here's someone who understands and is sensible.

The reality is that things are not going to be better unless the OL plays better and they can run the ball better. Pretending that Osweiler would do better because he looked good in meaningless preseason games is just absurd. Not one NFL defense has ever tried to figure out "how do we stop Osweiler? What weaknesses does he have?"

Well, it's obvious that one weakness he has is inexperience. He has a slow release compared with Manning, so he holds the ball longer. With this feeble OL that would mean a lot more sacks, probably some strip sacks and fumbles, plus some INTs from Brock trying to throw under pressure.

There is no cavalry waiting over the hill to rescue this team. They are going to have to win with the talent they have on the roster right now, and even with the starters they have right now. Brock is just not a better alternative.

But the biggest difference will be where the safeties line up against brock, how close the CB will play to line of scrimmage. Manning is blitzed 50% more this season then he ever has been in the past because he does not take advantage of the 1 on 1 match up he gets most of the time.

I blame how defenses play against Manning for 75% of this teams problems. Seattle wrote the book in the SB how to beat Manning and we face that style of defense every week now. Loaded boxes and CB pressuring WR off the line. Manning is the most blitzed QB right now because he can't make teams pay for it. The OL has been doing much better in pass protection the last two games which means that it is on Manning to make teams pay for blitzing.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 29m

Four of the last 15 world champs ('00 & '12 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '03 Pats) won multiple games without scoring an offensive TD, as Denver has.

[BroncoJoe]

I was encouraged by the early deep throw to Sanders. Don't remember the yardage, but I think it was around 30 yards.

It's OK to hammer on Manning when he isn't preforming to expectation, and he isn't. It's also OK to wonder if Brock - in this system - could run it better.

Think about it: He's mobile. Has a stronger arm. Knows the system (as well as Manning, anyway).

Wasn't thrilled when we signed Manning, but grew to love the dude. He is just simply past his prime. He is probably the most intelligent QB to ever play the game, and had above average physical skills to go with that. His mind is still one of the greatest, his body simply can't keep up.

Clearly, JMO.

[cmc0605]

But the biggest difference will be where the safeties line up against brock, how close the CB will play to line of scrimmage. Manning is blitzed 50% more this season then he ever has been in the past because he does not take advantage of the 1 on 1 match up he gets most of the time.

I blame how defenses play against Manning for 75% of this teams problems. Seattle wrote the book in the SB how to beat Manning and we face that style of defense every week now. Loaded boxes and CB pressuring WR off the line. Manning is the most blitzed QB right now because he can't make teams pay for it. The OL has been doing much better in pass protection the last two games which means that it is on Manning to make teams pay for blitzing.

I keep seeing this, and I think it's just another talking point that has been circulated too much as to become gospel.

First, Peyton has thrown a lot of deep balls this season, some of which have been perfect (Sanders caught a 50ish yard one in stride vs. Minnesota, Sanders dropped one a couple weeks ago, and plenty have been just 1-2 yards off the mark...that's how low percentage throws work). There's been a bunch of jump balls down the field.

Second, defenses have played Denver lots of ways and Peyton has made them pay for blitzes on multiple occasions. We did it on a perfect TD pass to Owen Daniels a few weeks ago to put the game away. He threw for 266 yards in this most recent "awful" performance, and moved the ball down field several times, which is just fine by league standards, but we're not finding the end zone because of a weird mix of miscues, penalties, and bad luck. Yes, he threw two pre-half picks in a row, but neither of them were arm strength issues. Last week vs. Minnesota he got fooled when another guy came off his man and jumped the route, and this week it was just crummy anticipation with a blitzer right in his face.

Third, you don't make the defense back off just by having a strong arm. Young QBs, including Brock have to earn that right, and the deep ball is mostly irrelevant to that because of its low-percentage nature. What you really need to be able to do is pick up those 7,10,15 yard passes and read the blitz and exploit aggressiveness consistently. As another poster said, Brock may be amazing but he hasn't yet earned the right for teams to gameplan "for him."

So this popular notion that if Brock was in, suddenly 11 guys would back off and everything short (including the run) would open up, and teams wouldn't attack all out like they do any other young QB, is just based in fantasy.

[tubby]

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/9e/44/9e44c1387a7bd83acd71dda21222aeed.jpg?itok=SlNciqZY

[Cugel]

But the biggest difference will be where the safeties line up against brock, how close the CB will play to line of scrimmage. Manning is blitzed 50% more this season then he ever has been in the past because he does not take advantage of the 1 on 1 match up he gets most of the time.

I blame how defenses play against Manning for 75% of this teams problems. Seattle wrote the book in the SB how to beat Manning and we face that style of defense every week now. Loaded boxes and CB pressuring WR off the line. Manning is the most blitzed QB right now because he can't make teams pay for it. The OL has been doing much better in pass protection the last two games which means that it is on Manning to make teams pay for blitzing.

This is flat wrong. As Pro-Football Focus proves, the OL has NOT "been doing much better in pass-protection" at all. Peyton Manning and the receivers have been making adjustments. He's throwing the ball even earlier and that's resulting in picks and guys not be being open. The idea that it's "75%" the fault of Manning is absurd.

Manning is the most blitzed QB because his OL can't pass-block. Can Brock release the ball quicker? No. Did you not see the pre-season? He was a lot SLOWER at getting rid of the ball than Peyton.

Defenses are NOT going to play differently against Brock Osweiler because it all comes down to pass-protection from the OL. Osweiler will have no more time to throw downfield than Peyton does because the OL can't protect him.

Osweiler has a slower release than Manning. He may move better but overall he's not going to make quicker reads or release the ball quicker. Quite the reverse. So, it would be worse. Far worse in fact.

PFF has it down to a science:


Denver Broncos:

Pass blocking rank: 22nd

Run blocking rank: 20th

Penalties ranks: 16th

Can't run and can't pass-protect. That's the problem. And nothing will change for the better until they perform better.

[BroncoJoe]

This is flat wrong. As Pro-Football Focus proves, the OL has NOT "been doing much better in pass-protection" at all. Peyton Manning and the receivers have been making adjustments. He's throwing the ball even earlier and that's resulting in picks and guys not be being open. The idea that it's "75%" the fault of Manning is absurd.

Manning is the most blitzed QB because his OL can't pass-block. Can Brock release the ball quicker? No. Did you not see the pre-season? He was a lot SLOWER at getting rid of the ball than Peyton.

Defenses are NOT going to play differently against Brock Osweiler because it all comes down to pass-protection from the OL. Osweiler will have no more time to throw downfield than Peyton does because the OL can't protect him.

Osweiler has a slower release than Manning. He may move better but overall he's not going to make quicker reads or release the ball quicker. Quite the reverse. So, it would be worse. Far worse in fact.

PFF has it down to a science:


Can't run and can't pass-protect. That's the problem. And nothing will change for the better until they perform better.

Statistics are only 100% reliable for mathematics.

I swear - it's almost like some of you don't actually watch the game and only rely on statistics to form an opinion.

[Valar Morghulis]

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/9e/44/9e44c1387a7bd83acd71dda21222aeed.jpg?itok=SlNciqZY

shaking like a shitting dog lol - Manning behind his line

[Cugel]

Pro-Football Focus: Worst players at every position for Week 5 (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/12/worst-players-at-every-position-for-week-5/)

Kam Chancellor and Nick Foles make our list of the worst players at every position for Week 5.

Everyone highlights the best players every week (including us). It’s far less common to celebrate those who played poorly, however. Luckily, the PFF Worst Team of the Week is here once again, highlighting the players who didn’t put up numbers to be proud of on Sunday.
. . . .

Running back: C.J. Anderson, Broncos (-1.8)

The season of disappointment continues for Anderson, with another clunker on Sunday. After all the hype from last season, Anderson has now run for 139 yards total in five games. Yesterday, he had 11 carries and gained 22 yards. He did force one missed tackle, but the 2.0 yards per carry is really all that needs to be said for him making it onto this team.

When your RB is rated as the worst in the NFL, that's a problem.

[Cugel]

Statistics are only 100% reliable for mathematics.

I swear - it's almost like some of you don't actually watch the game and only rely on statistics to form an opinion.

I've seen every play multiple times in replays. But, don't let FACTS get in the way of your fan worship of Osweiler. "I don't like it with Manning, so it has to be better with Brock!"

Wrong. Just wrong. :coffee:

[BroncoJoe]

When your RB is rated as the worst in the NFL, that's a problem.

Especially since defenses sell out getting to the QB or stopping the run because they know the QB can't throw accurately past 20 yards.

:smh:

[BroncoJoe]

I've seen every play multiple times in replays. But, don't let FACTS get in the way of your fan worship of Osweiler. "I don't like it with Manning, so it has to be better with Brock!"

Wrong. Just wrong. :coffee:

Tell me where I said that, and then I'll take the time to respond to your idiotic post. Or, maybe you're legally blind?

:coffee:

[cmc0605]

Especially since defenses sell out getting to the QB or stopping the run because they know the QB can't throw accurately past 20 yards.

:smh:

Except when he has many times this year...

[BroncoJoe]

Except when he has many times this year...

Again - define "many". And, I'm talking completions, not just throwing it 20+ yards.

He's lead the league many times in 20+ yard completions. Guys, he is 39 years old. Has no feeling in his fingers and has never been mobile, but is even less at this point.

It's OK to acknowledge he is past his prime and should have retired last year.

[cmc0605]

Again - define "many". And, I'm talking completions, not just throwing it 20+ yards.

He's lead the league many times in 20+ year completions. Guys, he is 39 years old. Has no feeling in his fingers and has never been mobile, but is even less at this point.

It's OK to acknowledge he is past his prime and should have retired last year.

Like here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101110/2015/REG5/broncos@raiders?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#contentId =0ap3000000554444&menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000554822&tab=recap) and here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015100411/2015/REG4/vikings@broncos?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=game info|contentId%3A0ap3000000549845&tab=videos&recap=fullstory&analyze=playbyplay) (1:10 mark) and here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092713/2015/REG3/broncos@lions?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gamein fo|contentId%3A0ap3000000540928&tab=videos&recap=fullstory&analyze=playbyplay) or here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101110/2015/REG5/broncos@raiders?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=game info|contentId%3A0ap3000000554554&tab=analyze&recap=fullstory) (finally got some help w/ yards after catch), some good ones in here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015091700/2015/REG2/broncos@chiefs?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#contentId= 0ap3000000533095&menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000533144&tab=videos) (lots of quicker strikes, you know...). Had a big one to Emanuel in stride that he dropped a couple weeks ago.

The incompletions that are 1-2 yards off the mark do count in this context. The argument is he can't make the throws. That's wrong, end of story.

[wayninja]

Again - define "many". And, I'm talking completions, not just throwing it 20+ yards.

He's lead the league many times in 20+ year completions. Guys, he is 39 years old. Has no feeling in his fingers and has never been mobile, but is even less at this point.

It's OK to acknowledge he is past his prime and should have retired last year.

Yeah, it's totally fine to acknowledge that. But we aren't treating this as though there is a gradual drop off, people are acting like his arm suddenly fell off a cliff. That's just not true. He definitely doesn't have the same arm as he did 5 years ago. But that's not to say it isn't serviceable and the offense unfixable.

I'll let the guy who's brain is attached to the limb decide when it's done.

[BroncoJoe]

Like here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101110/2015/REG5/broncos@raiders?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#contentId =0ap3000000554444&menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000554822&tab=recap) and here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015100411/2015/REG4/vikings@broncos?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=game info|contentId%3A0ap3000000549845&tab=videos&recap=fullstory&analyze=playbyplay) (1:10 mark) and here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092713/2015/REG3/broncos@lions?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gamein fo|contentId%3A0ap3000000540928&tab=videos&recap=fullstory&analyze=playbyplay) or here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101110/2015/REG5/broncos@raiders?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=game info|contentId%3A0ap3000000554554&tab=analyze&recap=fullstory) (finally got some help w/ yards after catch), some good ones in here (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015091700/2015/REG2/broncos@chiefs?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#contentId= 0ap3000000533095&menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000533144&tab=videos) (lots of quicker strikes, you know...). Had a big one to Emanuel in stride that he dropped a couple weeks ago.

The incompletions that are 1-2 yards off the mark do count in this context. The argument is he can't make the throws. That's wrong, end of story.

First link is Chris Harris' 70 yard INT for TD.
Second link - good pass at distance. Pass on the money.
Third link - pass underthrown. DT made a great catch after having to stop and over-leap the CB. Props to Manning, though.
Fourth link - great throw and catch. Unfortunately, it was Carr to Walford.
Fifth link - several good throws, but didn't see anything deep (20+ yards)

Nice try.

[BroncoJoe]

Yeah, it's totally fine to acknowledge that. But we aren't treating this as though there is a gradual drop off, people are acting like his arm suddenly fell off a cliff. That's just not true. He definitely doesn't have the same arm as he did 5 years ago. But that's not to say it isn't serviceable and the offense unfixable.

I'll let the guy who's brain is attached to the limb decide when it's done.

The drop off has been dramatic. Started at the half-way point last year.

[wayninja]

The drop off has been dramatic. Started at the half-way point last year.

Meh, we'll just disagree. He's regressed. It hasn't been a drop-off. You don't complete 60% of your throws with a dramatic drop-off...

2 TD passes instead of a TD drop and an extremely good defensive play on another TD pass and we probably aren't having this conversation.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm concerned because the way we are winning these games is not sustainable and the team has to know that.

I don't know how you can think it's "not sustainable". The 2000 Ravens won like 5 games that year without scoring an offensive TD.

We had the most potent, high scoring offense in history 2 years ago and they got embarrassed by a tough physical defense in the Super Bowl.

Does the offense need to improve? Absolutely, but even if they don't get much better, we have a defense that is championship caliber. Our #1 problem is the offensive line, not Manning, not CJ, and not the WRs. If the Oline can give Manning more than 1.5 seconds and open some holes for the running game, we'll get better, in a hurry.

[Joel]

I don't know how you can think it's "not sustainable". The 2000 Ravens won like 5 games that year without scoring an offensive TD.

We had the most potent, high scoring offense in history 2 years ago and they got embarrassed by a tough physical defense in the Super Bowl.

Does the offense need to improve? Absolutely, but even if they don't get much better, we have a defense that is championship caliber. Our #1 problem is the offensive line, not Manning, not CJ, and not the WRs. If the Oline can give Manning more than 1.5 seconds and open some holes for the running game, we'll get better, in a hurry.
Really is this simple: Great passing can make up for bad running or vice versa, but NOTHING works without blocking. So until/unless our line gets MUCH better, throwing Oz and Thompson/Bibbs or anyone else out there would be throwing them to the wolves. If an aging first ballot HoFer is garbage behind that line, I don't even want to imagine how a guy who's never had a real NFL snap would do.

[BroncoJoe]

Meh, we'll just disagree. He's regressed. It hasn't been a drop-off. You don't complete 60% of your throws with a dramatic drop-off...

2 TD passes instead of a TD drop and an extremely good defensive play on another TD pass and we probably aren't having this conversation.

I actually agree with you, and was being a bit over-the-top in my statement. But, I'd be lying if I said I was happy he came back this year.

[MasterShake]

It's almost like they know there 5-0 isn't sustainable. So it'll be all for nothing. People talk about losing the locker room. Nubian will lose the locker room if he shows he don't have the guts to make the right call.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/tumblr_ln2aj5IQP41qglymfo1_500_zps0utclwbx.jpg
"What's a Nubian?"

[Joel]

Evidently he thinks we're being coached by the Queen of Sheba; weirdest autocorrect I've seen for a while.

[wayninja]

Apparently you guys missed the semen discussion.

[NightTerror218]

Really is this simple: Great passing can make up for bad running or vice versa, but NOTHING works without blocking. So until/unless our line gets MUCH better, throwing Oz and Thompson/Bibbs or anyone else out there would be throwing them to the wolves. If an aging first ballot HoFer is garbage behind that line, I don't even want to imagine how a guy who's never had a real NFL snap would do.

Well until Manning can figure out to how prevent blitzs and a stacked box, there will be no running game. Blame 100% of that on the OL all you want but it is not a winning formula for a RB.

[Joel]

Apparently you guys missed the semen discussion.
Obviously the internets standard of articulate coherence remains abysmal.

[Joel]

Well until Manning can figure out to how prevent blitzs and a stacked box, there will be no running game. Blame 100% of that on the OL all you want but it is not a winning formula for a RB.
Those things are prevented with screens, counters and stretches to make pass rushers look over their shoulders, and hesitate when they see a play fake. So: Exactly which of Mannings deficiencies is causing our screen passes to get bottled up, stretch plays run all the way to the sideline for negligible yardage, and counters tackled for a loss at the handoff? Is Manning supposed to pull and lead block on a screen, counter or sweep, or is that a guards job? Come to that, didn't all this "Manning's washed up" crap start when he hurt himself TRYING to throw a goal line block for CJ when his guards COULDN'T?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 29m

Four of the last 15 world champs ('00 & '12 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '03 Pats) won multiple games without scoring an offensive TD, as Denver has.

Bump

[arapaho2]

The second was a great play, but it was also a reflection of Manning's arm talent. The ball was a rainbow.

a slow, slow rainbow

[UnderArmour]

It's obvious that Brock is the better option at this point, because it's obvious that Manning no longer has control of all of his throws. I just don't see his body holding up into January. Guy has committed costly turnovers in every game, and forced the defense to bail this team out for 5 weeks now. Even the Detroit game, if that extra point doesn't get blocked it's possible momentum shifts back to Detroit. Even if Brock came in and threw the same amount of turnovers Manning did, at least Brock has the arm to produce some momentum-shifting big plays on offense. Manning clearly does not.

I know some fans think it is complete taboo to criticize Manning, but he's not our GOAT. He's a fantastic QB, fantastic leader on and off the field, but it's obvious he can't play anymore. It's past "well it's too early in the season" point. This dates back to last year, it dates back to preseason(And stop saying OH WELL THAT IS JUST PRESEASON DOESNT MATTER LULZ), and Manning is not getting any younger. He's done. Brock is definitely the better option.

With that said, the team is winning. Manning has earned the right to play until his mistakes turn into losses, because that's just the way the QB position works. The coaching staff cannot and should not bench a team captain QB when the team is winning. Manning would have to make that decision himself, but it seems like at this rate his body is going to make the decision for him. Brock will be starting by week 17.

And for people saying "Well we don't know if Brock is a better option"... I'm sorry. I've watched this team play for the last 5 weeks, and so have you. Let's not insult anyone else's intelligence. Whether you admit it or not, Manning is not what he was 2 years ago, or even a year ago.

[dogfish]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/tumblr_ln2aj5IQP41qglymfo1_500_zps0utclwbx.jpg
"What's a Nubian?"

"Shut the f*** up!"

[Northman]

Lmao

[NightTerror218]

Those things are prevented with screens, counters and stretches to make pass rushers look over their shoulders, and hesitate when they see a play fake. So: Exactly which of Mannings deficiencies is causing our screen passes to get bottled up, stretch plays run all the way to the sideline for negligible yardage, and counters tackled for a loss at the handoff? Is Manning supposed to pull and lead block on a screen, counter or sweep, or is that a guards job? Come to that, didn't all this "Manning's washed up" crap start when he hurt himself TRYING to throw a goal line block for CJ when his guards COULDN'T?

And how many of those have you seen from Manning? Nobody bites on Manning play fakes. As for stretch plays you mean when the CB is 5 yards away?

I rarely see a screen to RB. For as much as Manning is blitzed it should happen more. I think maybe check downs are the only passes they catch.

[arapaho2]

I don't know how you can think it's "not sustainable". The 2000 Ravens won like 5 games that year without scoring an offensive TD.

We had the most potent, high scoring offense in history 2 years ago and they got embarrassed by a tough physical defense in the Super Bowl.

Does the offense need to improve? Absolutely, but even if they don't get much better, we have a defense that is championship caliber. Our #1 problem is the offensive line, not Manning, not CJ, and not the WRs. If the Oline can give Manning more than 1.5 seconds and open some holes for the running game, we'll get better, in a hurry.


they also averaged 137 rush yards per game

[Joel]

a slow, slow rainbow
How's Manning supposed to get him a ball 40 yds downfield if it's NOT a "slow, slow rainbow"? Throw a bullet 2 seconds after the snap and hope Sanders can teleport the last 20 yds?

[Slick]

Those things are prevented with screens, counters and stretches to make pass rushers look over their shoulders, and hesitate when they see a play fake. So: Exactly which of Mannings deficiencies is causing our screen passes to get bottled up, stretch plays run all the way to the sideline for negligible yardage, and counters tackled for a loss at the handoff? Is Manning supposed to pull and lead block on a screen, counter or sweep, or is that a guards job? Come to that, didn't all this "Manning's washed up" crap start when he hurt himself TRYING to throw a goal line block for CJ when his guards COULDN'T?
I guess the only play call left is a RB screen. You shot down your own suggestions and the WR bubble screen hasn't worked all year. My favorite play yesterday was the screen pass to Thompson.

[Joel]

I guess the only play call left is a RB screen. You shot down your own suggestions and the WR bubble screen hasn't worked all year. My favorite play yesterday was the screen pass to Thompson.
A nice play; Thompson broke at least three tackles (including one from behind at the start, which would've killed the play on the spot.) In terms of this discussion, there's no significant difference between a WR, RB and any other screen: The TE and other WRs are our best blockers on the play either way, which is just embarrassingly sad. I didn't shoot down the ideas, our line did, as they do our whole offense.

Yet we have forty-leven-dozen threads on our QB being "washed up" because he's playing as he did in the SB (which capped the GREATEST SEASON ANY QB'S EVER HAD; washed up?) and how many on our line?

[Northman]

I guess the only play call left is a RB screen. You shot down your own suggestions and the WR bubble screen hasn't worked all year. My favorite play yesterday was the screen pass to Thompson.

Yea, i dont think they run that very often either but it worked pretty well.

[Dapper Dan]

Your just making stuff up now. Sad story

Your posts are a sad story.

[wayninja]

How's Manning supposed to get him a ball 40 yds downfield if it's NOT a "slow, slow rainbow"? Throw a bullet 2 seconds after the snap and hope Sanders can teleport the last 20 yds?

I LOL'd

[Joel]

And how many of those have you seen from Manning? Nobody bites on Manning play fakes. As for stretch plays you mean when the CB is 5 yards away?

I rarely see a screen to RB. For as much as Manning is blitzed it should happen more. I think maybe check downs are the only passes they catch.
We call screens so often people routinely complain about predictability every time they see one, forgetting that screens were INVENTED to deter blitzes, not rack up yards. Yes, they're usually WR screens to capitalize on DTs big body and speed, but what makes anyone think Hillman or another RB wouldn't be gang-tackled just as quickly? Thompsons was nice, but he had to break a tackle from BEHIND just to get past the line, then broke 2-3 more on his way downfield. Sure, he (but not Hillman, nor Anderson this year) can do that easier than a running back, but the blocking was so awful it was practically a toss.

"Nobody bites on Mannings play fakes:" No kidding; why is that? Because his "noodle arm" tackles our RBs in the backfield? As for stretch plays, if TEs and Gs can't pancake a CB at ANY distance, they should hang up their cleats; sometimes I think DT may be the best blocker on the team.

Bottom line: Stacked boxes or not, when the D can camp out in your backfield, you won't do squat all day.

[Cugel]

Really is this simple: Great passing can make up for bad running or vice versa, but NOTHING works without blocking. So until/unless our line gets MUCH better, throwing Oz and Thompson/Bibbs or anyone else out there would be throwing them to the wolves. If an aging first ballot HoFer is garbage behind that line, I don't even want to imagine how a guy who's never had a real NFL snap would do.

Do you ever feel Joel like you're trying to tell people who are hyperventilating to "calm down" and they just stare at you as if you're the one who's hysterical?

Frankly, the only hope for this OL I can see is that they keep working on it. No matter how ugly it gets Kubiak is not panicking and is trying a rotation of players. Most recently, Tyler Polumbus at LT. They even tried using Max Garcia as an extra blocker on the left side. That was not a raging success, but it indicates they are going to keep working on coaching up this OL.

If the team can beat Cleveland, and let's face it, it's Cleveland, they will be 6-0. There are only 2 teams in NFL history that started 6-0 and didn't make the playoffs - the 2009 McMoron led Broncos were one of them.

But the 2009 team won by smoke & mirrors and miracle plays like the "Immaculate Deflection" to Stokley. This team is winning by great defensive players causing turnovers. The 2000 Ravens did that - they got intense pressure on QBs and then Ray Lewis would intercept a pass.

Right now, the Broncos defense has given up 65 points in 5 games (6 + 17+ 12 + 20 + 10) - an average of 13 points a game. Over a 16 game season, that equals 208 points. The 2013 Seahawks gave up 241 points or 14.4 points/game.

Now the Broncos play the Packers, Colts, Patriots, and Bengals, all teams that can score a lot of points, so that average is going to come up some. But, to be in the vicinity of the 2013 Seahawks means having one of the top 5 defenses since the 1985 Bears.

1985-'86 Bears - 198 & 187 points.
2000 Ravens - 165 points - 10.3 ppg, which is the modern record.
2002 Bucs - 196 points.
2013 Seahawks - 241 points.

After the Bucs SB win, they changed the rules so no defense will probably ever hold opponents to fewer than 200 points again.

That 2013 Seahawks defense thus might be the best of all time. They shut down the best scoring offense of all time.

So, yes, the Broncos can win a SB with an aging Peyton and a great defense, but it depends entirely on this OL getting better at blocking and pass-protection and the Defense staying healthy.

After all the Giants did it twice with defense beating the 2nd best scoring offense of all time - the 18-0 Patriots team that was supposed to be the "Greatest of All-Time" and a 16-2 Patriots team as well.

And what matters is how we are playing in January, not in October and November. They are going to win a minimum of 11 games. That will be enough to get into the playoffs. The question is "what are they going to do when they get there?"

[BroncoJoe]

Cudgel and Joel. A match made in heaven.

Can I be the best man at the wedding?

[DenBronx]

There needs to be a Cugel vs Joel megathread were they can talk to each other all day long.

[Yashahla17]

Your posts are a sad story.

Sorry you feel that way diaper dan.

[Yashahla17]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/tumblr_ln2aj5IQP41qglymfo1_500_zps0utclwbx.jpg
"What's a Nubian?"

Lol auto correct goes places sometimes.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Brock Osweiler’s time will come.

But it hasn’t arrived yet.

And nor should it. Despite a lackluster season from future Hall-of-Fame quarterback Peyton Manning, the Denver Broncos are sitting pretty at 5-0. Both Gary Kubiak and history will tell you the same thing: Brock can wait.

On Monday, following a Sunday win in Oakland that won’t ever be compared to any of Manning’s many fine performances, the coach was asked if he would begin to consider the idea of rotating Manning and Osweiler. His response was short and sweet.

“No. Peyton’s doing just fine,” he said.

http://milehighsports.com/brock-osweiler-will-get-his-shot-but-it-shouldnt-be-now/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from same article:


It was Thursday, Nov. 23, 2006. The 7-3 Denver Broncos were in Kansas City, taking on a 6-4 Chiefs team. The season before, the Broncos made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game, riding the play of an excellent defense and a gunslinging quarterback named Jake Plummer. Up until that night in K.C., Plummer had amassed a record of 39-14 as the Broncos starter.

But somehow – before the Chiefs game – word got out that Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan was planning on making a change at quarterback. The Sunday before, the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers. In that game, Plummer wasn’t great, going 13-of-28 for 183 passing yards, one interception and zero touchdowns. Still, the Chargers put up 35 points on a Broncos defense that had only surrendered more than 20 once that season (ironically, that game was against Manning’s Colts, who pasted 34 points on Denver in Week 8). Shanahan had a rookie, franchise quarterback named Jay Cutler waiting in the wings, but still, considering the Broncos record, a change seemed premature, and perhaps unnecessary all together.

Oddly, and despite the secret getting out, Plummer still started against the Chiefs. He proceeded to throw for 216 yards, completing 25 of his 39 attempts. That Broncos – a team that ranked second in the NFL in rushing yards the season before, and ultimately eighth when the 2006 season was in the books – only rushed for 63 yards that night at Arrowhead.

To the surprise of no one, Plummer was benched the next week. The job of starting quarterback went to Cutler. And the Broncos finished the season at 9-7. With a playoff spot on the line against the 7-8 49ers, a home game on the last day of the season, Cutler failed to lead his team to a win. The Broncos lost in overtime and missed out on the playoffs.

http://milehighsports.com/brock-osweiler-will-get-his-shot-but-it-shouldnt-be-now/

[MOtorboat]

It's time to bench Owen Daniels. And probably C.J. Anderson. Schofield. Colquitt. The starting offensive line.

[NightTerror218]

We call screens so often people routinely complain about predictability every time they see one, forgetting that screens were INVENTED to deter blitzes, not rack up yards. Yes, they're usually WR screens to capitalize on DTs big body and speed, but what makes anyone think Hillman or another RB wouldn't be gang-tackled just as quickly? Thompsons was nice, but he had to break a tackle from BEHIND just to get past the line, then broke 2-3 more on his way downfield. Sure, he (but not Hillman, nor Anderson this year) can do that easier than a running back, but the blocking was so awful it was practically a toss.

"Nobody bites on Mannings play fakes:" No kidding; why is that? Because his "noodle arm" tackles our RBs in the backfield? As for stretch plays, if TEs and Gs can't pancake a CB at ANY distance, they should hang up their cleats; sometimes I think DT may be the best blocker on the team.

Bottom line: Stacked boxes or not, when the D can camp out in your backfield, you won't do squat all day.

That screen to DT does not work, ball does not get there fast enough and CB is on him. That particular play DOES NOT WORK anymore. It did with Decker because he was a great blocker and we used a bunch formation there.

Hitting a RB is different because he will have more space and will need to avoid a LB. Moreno lived off these passes and tore teams up.

[weazel]

Sorry you feel that way diaper dan.

Heyohhhhhhhhhhh!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Good place to also put the following

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 11h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Good place to also put the following

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 11h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

I attribute that more to receivers making great plays on the ball.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying I know we should bench him. I'm just saying it's time we stop pretending he's still the same guy he was 2 years ago. I honestly don't know if Osweiler would be an improvement.

[Poet]

When Manning shows up big in the playoffs you ungrateful ****s are going to feel silly.

#Kinghasspoken

#notimeforpeasants

[weazel]

Good place to also put the following

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 11h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

I think it should be added to every thread... not just the two you've already put this. Maybe you could make it your signature!

[silkamilkamonico]

I attribute that more to receivers making great plays on the ball.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying I know we should bench him. I'm just saying it's time we stop pretending he's still the same guy he was 2 years ago. I honestly don't know if Osweiler would be an improvement.

For all the shit people have been giving Manning, and he has been bad this year, Manning has made some really good timing throws down field this year. The issue is when he throws those and he is off it has either lead to a bad result or almost a bad result.

Manning just isn't there physically, when he mis-throws it's really bad. I think you're also seeing what can happen to a great QB when his confidence gets shaken.

Manning's been bad. But for as bad as he's been the oline has been worse. Before you bench Manning, you need to bench the entire oline. And wtf is Evan Mathis doing still playing? Dude has been the worst olinemen in the NFL this year. Pretty sure you could play Max Garcia, get that dude some experience moving forward, and get equally garbage, if not less garbage, play.

[Slick]

When Manning shows up big in the playoffs you ungrateful ****s are going to feel silly.

#Kinghasspoken

#notimeforpeasants

Not really. If he plays well I will love every minute of it.

[Northman]

Manning just isn't there physically,

No offense, but this has been said every single year he's been here.


Manning's been bad. But for as bad as he's been the oline has been worse.

The Oline is also very young so they actually have an excuse with their struggles. But signing Manning when we did was supposed to help issues like that because "you know" Manning is super smart and can read defenses faster, and can audible, and can this and that. Manning isnt going to be benched while the team is winning but it certainly does not mean he isnt making it harder for the defense with his bad turnovers.

[underrated29]

When Manning shows up big in the playoffs you ungrateful ****s are going to feel silly.

#Kinghasspoken

#notimeforpeasants




When i first saw this I thought it said

#notimeforpants

i made me laugh, until I realized I read it wrong.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I think it should be added to every thread... not just the two you've already put this. Maybe you could make it your signature!

Maybe you should put me on ignore

[weazel]

I love you Carol

[Dapper Dan]

Sorry you feel that way diaper dan.

It sucks how some posters don't stick around but I bet we'll get stuck with a worthless **** like you.

[Northman]

I love you Carol

Lies!

[Northman]

It sucks how some posters don't stick around but I bet we'll get stuck with a worthless **** like you.

Man dude, why do you hate this guy so much?

[weazel]

he's a communist

[dogfish]

I think it should be added to every thread... not just the two you've already put this. Maybe you could make it your signature!


Maybe you should put me on ignore

oh, slap! don't sass carol, weaz, she's been doing this longer than you have. . . :heh:

[BroncoJoe]

When Manning shows up big in the playoffs you ungrateful ****s are going to feel silly.

#Kinghasspoken

#notimeforpeasants

Welp - that'd be a first! Well, 2nd actually.

:couch:

[underrated29]

It sucks how some posters don't stick around but I bet we'll get stuck with a worthless **** like you.



To be fair Dano, I once called you diaper dan, but it was an auto correct fail. Maybe Yashashashashalalala7 made the same type and changed it to diaper.

[MOtorboat]

I'm sad that Yashashashashalalala7 won't introduce himself to the board after I politely welcomed here.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

Assumes QB is the primary root cause. What if it's the OL & Manning's step-ups are actually preventing worse damage?

[Northman]

Well, we know it isnt that because even with time he is making mistakes. Guess that guy is not actually watching the football games.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Well, we know it isnt that because even with time he is making mistakes. Guess that guy is not actually watching the football games.

Andrew Mason is at every Broncos game - home and away

[Northman]

Andrew Mason is at every Broncos game - home and away

Guess i will need to buy him some glasses then.

[NightTerror218]

Andrew Mason is at every Broncos game - home and away

Someone was saying his stats he posted about Manning have the most passes over 15 yards did not count the week 1 stats. Picking and choosing he stats.

[BroncoWave]

Andrew Mason is at every Broncos game - home and away

Doesn't make him the expert nor does it make him more correct than anyone on this message board. Keep in mind that he writes for the Broncos website and that most if not all of his posts have a pro-Broncos slant.

[Northman]

Doesn't make him the expert nor does it make him more correct than anyone on this message board. Keep in mind that he writes for the Broncos website and that most if not all of his posts have a pro-Broncos slant.

He's a pretty big homer so you do have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Someone was saying his stats he posted about Manning have the most passes over 15 yards did not count the week 1 stats. Picking and choosing he stats.

This is what was posted

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

[BroncoWave]

This is what was posted

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

Yeah Carol we know.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

He's a pretty big homer so you do have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Trying to take my own biases out of it, too. INTs were horrible throws, no doubt, but must look at bigger picture.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yeah Carol we know.

I posted that to in response to a post.

[BroncoWave]

I posted that to in response to a post.

Oh ok thanks for clearing that up! :lol:

[NightTerror218]

This is what was posted

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

I know, saw you post it. Does not mean he is accurate or not being biased.

[Northman]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Trying to take my own biases out of it, too. INTs were horrible throws, no doubt, but must look at bigger picture.

There are other issues but i just hate it when people make comments like he did because it implies that Manning shares no blame for the way he is playing.

On a side note, ive seen some people (not you Carol but someone else specifically) say that Manning doesnt trust his Oline. I got news for you, Manning has NEVER been able to trust an oline he played for. THe guy has been playing football since he was in diapers and if he really is "afraid" while playing right now he does not belong under center. Personally, i dont think he is afraid and i dont think it is a trust issue. I really dont think that Manning is that weak minded or weak willed when it comes to trusting his teammates. The guy has been doing this forever and it think it just has a lot more to do with his body not doing the things his mind is telling him can do.

[Ravage!!!]

There are other issues but i just hate it when people make comments like he did because it implies that Manning shares no blame for the way he is playing.

On a side note, ive seen some people (not you Carol but someone else specifically) say that Manning doesnt trust his Oline. I got news for you, Manning has NEVER been able to trust an oline he played for. THe guy has been playing football since he was in diapers and if he really is "afraid" while playing right now he does not belong under center. Personally, i dont think he is afraid and i dont think it is a trust issue. I really dont think that Manning is that weak minded or weak willed when it comes to trusting his teammates. The guy has been doing this forever and it think it just has a lot more to do with his body not doing the things his mind is telling him can do.

Great points.

[TXBRONC]

Your posts are a sad story.

Hate to see you so sad Dapper. :tsk:

[BroncoJoe]

Andrew Mason is at every Broncos game - home and away

He also works for the Broncos.

[TXBRONC]

Maybe you should put me on ignore


I love you Carol

He doesn't love you like I do Carol.

[weazel]

This is what was posted

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

And yet only three teams have completed more passes of 15 or more yards in the last four weeks than the Broncos.

signature?

[weazel]

There are other issues but i just hate it when people make comments like he did because it implies that Manning shares no blame for the way he is playing.

On a side note, ive seen some people (not you Carol but someone else specifically) say that Manning doesnt trust his Oline. I got news for you, Manning has NEVER been able to trust an oline he played for. THe guy has been playing football since he was in diapers and if he really is "afraid" while playing right now he does not belong under center. Personally, i dont think he is afraid and i dont think it is a trust issue. I really dont think that Manning is that weak minded or weak willed when it comes to trusting his teammates. The guy has been doing this forever and it think it just has a lot more to do with his body not doing the things his mind is telling him can do.

okay how many times does someone have to bring up diapers in this thread? Dan is getting pissed!

[TXBRONC]

okay how many times does someone have to bring up diapers in this thread? Dan is getting pissed!

Dan is just going to have to deal with it.

[Poet]

okay how many times does someone have to bring up diapers in this thread? Dan is getting pissed!

There's a joke here.

[Cugel]

There are other issues but i just hate it when people make comments like he did because it implies that Manning shares no blame for the way he is playing.

On a side note, ive seen some people (not you Carol but someone else specifically) say that Manning doesnt trust his Oline. I got news for you, Manning has NEVER been able to trust an oline he played for. THe guy has been playing football since he was in diapers and if he really is "afraid" while playing right now he does not belong under center. Personally, i dont think he is afraid and i dont think it is a trust issue. I really dont think that Manning is that weak minded or weak willed when it comes to trusting his teammates. The guy has been doing this forever and it think it just has a lot more to do with his body not doing the things his mind is telling him can do.

This is just wrong. His OL is demonstrably worse. A LOT worse than in the previous 3 years. And it's not a real surprise they are the the 2nd worst run-blocking OL in football. For 3 years lots of fans and NFL insiders were saying that Denver's OL was it's weakest link.

It's as if Elway thought "Peyton can make up for a weak OL because he gets rid of the ball so quickly, so I don't have to go out in FA and sign an elite veteran RT. We can get by with rookies and re-treads on the OL!"

What did they do after the obvious failures at RT last year? NOTHING! They went out and got a career backup re-tread in RT Ryan Harris, and re-signed marginal T Tyler Polombus, who's bounced around the league for 8 years and 5 teams, and hasn't started a game since 2013. Their big signing was 34 year old Evan Mathis, coming off serious knee surgery, who didn't even practice during the entire pre-season, and who has not played up to the hype at all.

Everybody said in the pre-season that this OL looked like hot-garbage and Peyton was under siege within 2 seconds on every throw. He's still getting rid of the ball in a hurry, but when you have less than 2 seconds to throw and no clear pocket in which to step up and throw Peyton is not going to perform well. Almost every interception he's thrown the last 4 seasons has been the result of defenders getting in his face and he doesn't have room to step up and throw. Exhibit "A" - the Super Bowl.

Obviously he doesn't trust his OL. They are not blocking even mediocre. They are 30th in the league according to Pro-Football Focus at pass-protection, and worse than that at running the ball. For a 5-0 team that's just flat horrible OL play. It's nothing less than amazing that Denver is undefeated given that their OL has been just putrid.

Russell Wilson is the best running QB in football, but his OL is terrible at pass-blocking, so he's 24th in the league - worse than Peyton Manning in passer yards. Not even Russell could play well behind this OL.

Fortunately they have 11 more games before the post-season to try and get it fixed so that they can run the ball some, and pass-protect and give Peyton more than 1.75 seconds to throw every down.

[Northman]

This is just wrong. His OL is demonstrably worse. A LOT worse than in the previous 3 years. And it's not a real surprise they are the the 2nd worst run-blocking OL in football. For 3 years lots of fans and NFL insiders were saying that Denver's OL was it's weakest link.

It's as if Elway thought "Peyton can make up for a weak OL because he gets rid of the ball so quickly, so I don't have to go out in FA and sign an elite veteran RT. We can get by with rookies and re-treads on the OL!"

Everybody said in the pre-season that this OL looked like hot-garbage and Peyton was under siege within 2 seconds on every throw. He's still getting rid of the ball in a hurry, but when you have less than 2 seconds to throw and no clear pocket in which to step up and throw Peyton is not going to perform well. Almost every interception he's thrown the last 4 seasons has been the result of defenders getting in his face and he doesn't have room to step up and throw. Exhibit "A" - the Super Bowl.

Obviously he doesn't trust his OL. They are not blocking even mediocre. They are 30th in the league according to Pro-Football Focus at pass-protection, and worse than that at running the ball. For a 5-0 team that's just flat horrible OL play. It's nothing less than amazing that Denver is undefeated given that their OL has been just putrid.

Russell Wilson is the best running QB in football, but his OL is terrible at pass-blocking, so he's 24th in the league - worse than Peyton Manning in passer yards. Not even Russell could play well behind this OL.

Fortunately they have 11 more games before the post-season to try and get it fixed so that they can run the ball some, and pass-protect and give Peyton more than 1.75 seconds to throw every down.

No, you are wrong. You are always wrong.

[Cugel]

No, you are wrong. You are always wrong.

No, you are wrong. You are obviously wrong, and you can't even bother to present any argument in your defense! Pathetic!

[Northman]

No, you are wrong. You are obviously wrong, and you can't even bother to present any argument in your defense! Pathetic!

When it comes to you i dont need to present anything. You are simply just wrong. Nothing else to be said.

[weazel]

No, you are wrong. You are obviously wrong, and you can't even bother to present any argument in your defense! Pathetic!

this is just wrong

[Northman]

this is just wrong

You would think that he would get tired after a while of always being wrong.

[BroncoJoe]

Don't know why you all argue with the all knowing Cugel.

[Northman]

Don't know why you all argue with the all knowing Cugel.

No arguing, just tell him he's wrong and move on. lol

[NightTerror218]

No, you are wrong. You are always wrong.

So glad we have been drafting OL to a dress this issue.....not immediate impact but still addressed.

[BroncoJoe]

No arguing, just tell him he's wrong and move on. lol

Replace argue with interact. Same diff. Dude is in outer space.

[Slick]

Did you guys know that the offensive line is playing poorly?

[BroncoJoe]

Did you guys know that the offensive line is playing poorly?

Do you know that Manning is playing poorly?

[Slick]

Do you know that Manning is playing poorly?

My stance on that has been crystal clear.

[Northman]

Did you guys know that the offensive line is playing poorly?

Of course, they are young and struggling at times which was expected. Did you know that the Pats Oline has been playing almost as poorly as ours yet they are averaging 30 pts a game and their QB has yet to throw a INT while being sacked 11 times this year, one less than our QB?

[Buff]

North and Joe's sarcasm detectors are broken today.

[Northman]

North and Joe's sarcasm detectors are broken today.

Must be. Sorry Slick. lmao

[BroncoJoe]

North and Joe's sarcasm detectors are broken today.

Damnit! I wonder if I have a warranty, because I just got it fixed not too long ago.

[SR]

Damnit! I wonder if I have a warranty, because I just got it fixed not too long ago.

You may want to consult the jeep dealership. They should be accustomed to warranty repairs by now.

[BroncoJoe]

You may want to consult the jeep dealership. They should be accustomed to warranty repairs by now.

Right. Because they're the only car maker that sells cars needing recalls or repairs.

:rolleyes:

[weazel]

car makers are now worse than software companies. meh just release it, we'll fix it later.

[Joel]

Of course, they are young and struggling at times which was expected. Did you know that the Pats Oline has been playing almost as poorly as ours yet they are averaging 30 pts a game and their QB has yet to throw a INT while being sacked 11 times this year, one less than our QB?
1) *E hasn't replaced all but ONE starter with a rookie, a PS guy and a guy signed a WEEK before Opening Day.
2) Even if they had, why do you continually insist on comparing the Broncos to them when that's obviously apples to oranges (or cheater to non-cheaters)?
3) A year ago, everyone said all the same crap about Tom (Chea)terrific that they're saying about Manning now; I can only HOPE the rest of our season maintains that pattern.

[Yashahla17]

1) *E hasn't replaced all but ONE starter with a rookie, a PS guy and a guy signed a WEEK before Opening Day.
2) Even if they had, why do you continually insist on comparing the Broncos to them when that's obviously apples to oranges (or cheater to non-cheaters)?
3) A year ago, everyone said all the same crap about Tom (Chea)terrific that they're saying about Manning now; I can only HOPE the rest of our season maintains that pattern.

Your a absolute manning apologist. You make my fuel burn for manning to just get hurt and leave already with your blaming everyone for manning poor play. Not even Colts fans kiss as much bottom about manning as you and cugel. Very sad

[Joel]

Your a absolute manning apologist.
Anyone wanna clue this guy in on why this literally made me LOL? :rolleyes: Jaded? MO?

[SR]

Right. Because they're the only car maker that sells cars needing recalls or repairs. :rolleyes:

Jesus Joe. You're a grumpy ass anymore.

[Dzone]

Your a absolute manning apologist. You make my fuel burn for manning to just get hurt and leave already with your blaming everyone for manning poor play. Not even Colts fans kiss as much bottom about manning as you and cugel. Very sad

lmao

[dogfish]

Jesus Joe. You're a grumpy ass anymore.

just wait 'til you get that old. . . :heh:

[MOtorboat]

Your a absolute manning apologist. You make my fuel burn for manning to just get hurt and leave already with your blaming everyone for manning poor play. Not even Colts fans kiss as much bottom about manning as you and cugel. Very sad

This dumb **** is so anti-Manning he's actually chiding Joel for being pro-Manning.

This is ******* comical.

[Ravage!!!]

Your a absolute manning apologist. You make my fuel burn for manning to just get hurt and leave already with your blaming everyone for manning poor play. Not even Colts fans kiss as much bottom about manning as you and cugel. Very sad

You have no idea just how ridiculously and comically wrong you are this statement. You want to blah blah blah about how others lose credibility, well, you just COMPLETELY lost alllllllllll of yours in one single statement of ignorance.

[Ravage!!!]

This dumb **** is so anti-Manning he's actually chiding Joel for being pro-Manning.

This is ******* comical.

I guess even when you are where Joel is, there is someone even lower looking up.

[Yashahla17]

The difference is I'm anti manning now that he's finished. If manning was still good only a moron could be anti manning. Manning apologist are just like noo it's everyone else fault even though manning clearly has no physical ability left.

[Timmy!]

Has the new guy set his computer on fire and gone to play in traffic yet?

[Poet]

The difference is I'm anti manning now that he's finished. If manning was still good only a moron could be anti manning. Manning apologist are just like noo it's everyone else fault even though manning clearly has no physical ability left.

Fantastic. Now that your one point on the board has been proven, I'm sure you'll proffer insight on other areas of debate.

[Yashahla17]

I talk about other things. They just get overlooked

[MOtorboat]

Hey Yashahahalalahahalalala, boxers or briefs?

[Poet]

I talk about other things. They just get overlooked

Tell me more!

[Yashahla17]

Hey Yashahahalalahahalalala, boxers or briefs?

That's personal

[MOtorboat]

That's personal

You're so disappointing.

[dogfish]

yash, what do you drive. . . F150, silverado?

[SR]

yash, what do you drive. . . F150, silverado?

I take him for a Nissan Leaf kind of fella. Not a manly pickup type.

[SR]

That's personal

Not really

[tomjonesrocks]

That's personal

Why 17? Was Yashahla not available?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Why 17? Was Yashahla not available?

Could it be he's legally required to identify himself as a minor?

[Ravage!!!]

I think he drives the best kind of car to drive in Boston, because I believe that is where he's from.

[wayninja]

Could it be he's legally required to identify himself as a minor?

I think the only legal requirement is the 1000 yards from school zones...

[Yashahla17]

I drive a 13 verano turbo. Sweet ride. Manning sold me.

[Yashahla17]

Why 17? Was Yashahla not available?

Brock.

[Poet]

Brock.

:lol:

[chazoe60]

yash, what do you drive. . . F150, silverado?

I bet he drives a Buick.

[chazoe60]

I drive a 13 verano turbo. Sweet ride. Manning sold me.

:laugh::laugh: didn't see this before I posted.

[Rick]

It needs to happen, and Monday.

We are winning in spite of Manning, not because of him.

Put Brock in, let's see what we have.

What it's the worst that can happen, Brock throws like 10 ints? Seems familiar.

It is a bye, it needs to happen now.

[pulse]

It needs to happen, and Monday.

We are winning in spite of Manning, not because of him.

Put Brock in, let's see what we have.

What it's the worst that can happen, Brock throws like 10 ints? Seems familiar.

It is a bye, it needs to happen now.

Hell no!!!!!!!!!!! You DO NOT pull your starting QB on a team that is 6-0 going into a BYE to replace him with a QB that has never started a regular season NFL game in his career. The next game you play is against a 6-0 Green Bay Packers. If Osweiler gets blown up and we get our ass handed to us in the first half of that game, it will look dumb as hell. Then you risk having to put Manning back in... oh just, NO! Screw that.

Take the two weeks to see if you can fix the problems. When we start losing a bunch of games and Manning is still playing like crap, then you might have to do something, but not right now. Give it a rest.

This crap is going to be endless until Manning starts playing better. I know that. But if anybody really thinks Denver is going to bench Peyton Manning, you're just crazy. We will ride that horse into a great season or a bad season.

http://new1.fjcdn.com/gifs/Deal_368aed_1390499.gif

[Rick]

I won't give it a rest, no matter how many exclamation points are used.

I'm sorry, I absolutely don't believe there is a single reason to leave Manning in.

It isn't that I think Brock is better, though I think he may be a better fit, it is that I don't think he can be any worse and if you are going to make that change, now is the time while they have 2 weeks to get Brock ready.

If not for this defense we may be 0-6, sorry I'm not giving a bit of credit to the 6-0 to Manning and I'm not seeing how replacing him changes the defense being the reason we are winning.

[Poet]

You know how hard it is to replace a legend when he leaves? Imagine doing that during the legend's last season. I think it would doom Brock to failure.

[Ravage!!!]

It needs to happen, and Monday.

We are winning in spite of Manning, not because of him.

Put Brock in, let's see what we have.

What it's the worst that can happen, Brock throws like 10 ints? Seems familiar.

It is a bye, it needs to happen now.

Lets look at this statement and consider how absurd. You bench a HoF QB, and LEADER of this team while 6-0..... and you wonder "what is the worse that can happen?" Really? I mean, is this a serious question?

[Rick]

In response to Pulse,

As to your edit, though I think they should make a change, I 100% agree with you that they will not, good or bad, we are riding it out with Manning.

[pulse]

You know how hard it is to replace a legend when he leaves? Imagine doing that during the legend's last season. I think it would doom Brock to failure.

Even worse, you'd be expecting Brock Osweiler to face Aaron Rodgers and the Packers as his first start? If he got clobbered, it would look horrible. Green Bay's defense is stout this year. We need Manning to just fix/limit the mental errors. We need him to be mentally sharp and read that defense to have a chance. We have no chance with Brock. I'm sorry, but this is getting pretty ridiculous. I don't care if Manning has 15 INTs, he's undefeated. He has the entire damn season to fix his problems as long as we keep winning. Clearly, he's got to play better. But you have to let him work through it while you have that luxury. I believe he will. Perhaps a lot of you don't, but in principle alone, you're making a huge change on an undefeated team nearing the midpoint of the season. It's just crazy. Now if Denver loses the next 4 or 5 games and Manning is still stinking it up, then clearly, that's a much harder argument and you're probably facing a survival decision. I don't expect that at all.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You know how hard it is to replace a legend when he leaves? Imagine doing that during the legend's last season. I think it would doom Brock to failure.

There's some truth to this, but he's only been in Denver for 4 years.

I wonder if GB fans were saying the same stuff about Rogers. "He can't be any good. The coaches watch him every day in practice. If he was better than Favre he'd be playing."