The Good and the Bad: Week 5

[BroncoWave]

I'm going to keep this one really short and simple this week because this was a tale of two units today.

Good:

The defense. Accolades all around. They struggled a bit early, but after those first few drives Oakland could do nothing. Awesome pass rush on Carr and Chris Harris with the money pick-6 to seal the game.

Special teams. McManus was money again and the blocked FG early in the game wound up being huge.

As ugly as it might be, we are 5-0 and you can't beat that!

Bad:

The offense. The only person on offense who would go in the good category for this game is Sanders. Manning was awful again (sorry, it's true), and the running game was non-existent. DT was good but the dropped TD pass could have been a killer. I shudder to think of how our games against GB and NE are going to go with this offense.

[aberdien]

In other words, we better hope we've got a 2000 Ravens level defense.

[BroncoWave]

In other words, we better hope we've got a 2000 Ravens level defense.

More or less. That's going to have to be our path to a title IMO.

[Northman]

In other words, we better hope we've got a 2000 Ravens level defense.

Yeeeeep. It certainly wont be because of Scarecrow.

[BroncoWave]

I think our bye week couldn't be coming at a better time. The defense is starting to get banged up and we will have two weeks to get ready for GB. Just gotta get through next week without any major injuries.

[CrazyHorse]

Good:
Defense
We won
Bad:
Running game
Manning's decision making

[BroncoWave]

The more I think about it, we are really in a catch-22 with our offense. Teams are loading up to stop the run because they aren't scared of Manning, and Manning isn't able to take advantage of it. So until Manning can actually scare teams again, we will never get the running game going. So assuming Manning doesn't improve from the level he has currently at, I think this is just the offense we are stuck with from here on out.

[VonDoom]

I don't have much to say about this game. I feel like all of the good and bad have been the same pretty much every game this year. How many times can I say that the defense is incredible and that the offense is painful to watch? Manning was bad, the run game was once again completely useless, giving us and second and third and long all the time. Also, we must have the dumbest penalties in the league. Whatever the personal foul on offense was killed that drive, Malik throwing the ball at that dude's head. Oh man, that was rough.

[BroncoWave]

I don't have much to say about this game. I feel like all of the good and bad have been the same pretty much every game this year. How many times can I say that the defense is incredible and that the offense is painful to watch? Manning was bad, the run game was once again completely useless, giving us and second and third and long all the time. Also, we must have the dumbest penalties in the league. Whatever the personal foul on offense was killed that drive, Malik throwing the ball at that dude's head. Oh man, that was rough.

Malik Jackson must be the dumbest player in the league. I swear he commits at least one boneheaded personal foul every week. Good thing for him he's good at football.

[VonDoom]

Malik Jackson must be the dumbest player in the league. I swear he commits at least one boneheaded personal foul every week. Good thing for him he's good at football.

Yeah, I want to be pissed off at him, but then he makes a great play and I'm like, "Ah, that's just Malik being himself." He's maddening, though.

[broncohead]

Malik Jackson must be the dumbest player in the league. I swear he commits at least one boneheaded personal foul every week. Good thing for him he's good at football.

I have been thinking this since the end of last year. I like Jacksons play on the field but he needs to watch from the sideline for a game or two to get the point across.

[Cugel]

I'm going to keep this one really short and simple this week because this was a tale of two units today.

Good:

The defense. Accolades all around. They struggled a bit early, but after those first few drives Oakland could do nothing. Awesome pass rush on Carr and Chris Harris with the money pick-6 to seal the game.

Special teams. McManus was money again and the blocked FG early in the game wound up being huge.

As ugly as it might be, we are 5-0 and you can't beat that!

Bad:

The offense. The only person on offense who would go in the good category for this game is Sanders. Manning was awful again (sorry, it's true), and the running game was non-existent. DT was good but the dropped TD pass could have been a killer. I shudder to think of how our games against GB and NE are going to go with this offense.

I think they lose by 30 points.

But, the question you have to ask yourself is this: "will they ever get the OL fixed this season?"

If they can do so by January, all these struggles and the upcoming losses to the Pats, Packers and probably the Bengals won't matter. They will still make the playoffs. And they will still be able to make a playoff run.

The only question is whether they CAN get it straightened out.

On the plus side: this is a ZBS. You don't need great OL, you just need them to play solid fundamental football and coordinate better together. That might come with more playing time together. Right now it's a struggle.

On the minus side: There's no proof they will ever get better this season. It might take an off-season and some new OL. We just can't know.

[Ravage!!!]

It's hard to find any good on the offense.

So its the same thing, once again, as its been all year.

Good: Defense. It's the only thing that has been good. It's solid all the way through, and tough on 3rd and long.

Bad: EVERYTHING offense (I'll agree with Wave in that Sanders is the only thing good on offense). Manning just looks sooooo pedestrian, that it's irritating becuase we are used to better.

I've come to accept that we aren't going anywhere this year, and to just enjoy the games for what they are. I LOVE watching the defense, and hate hate hate our offense. CJ isn't good, and is now looking like a bad RB.

Its four weeks, and this is where we are supposed to be able to "judge" our players and offense, right? Isn't that whta we said...give it four weeks? Well..... its not better. It's aweful. Our offense is truly, aweful.

[Ravage!!!]

Malik Jackson must be the dumbest player in the league. I swear he commits at least one boneheaded personal foul every week. Good thing for him he's good at football.

Seems that we have a #58 that does that, as well. It's one of those things, that you like aggressive play and with that comes some of those penalties. But, damn.

[BroncoWave]

It's hard to find any good on the offense.

So its the same thing, once again, as its been all year.

Good: Defense. It's the only thing that has been good. It's solid all the way through, and tough on 3rd and long.

Bad: EVERYTHING offense (I'll agree with Wave in that Sanders is the only thing good on offense). Manning just looks sooooo pedestrian, that it's irritating becuase we are used to better.

I've come to accept that we aren't going anywhere this year, and to just enjoy the games for what they are. I LOVE watching the defense, and hate hate hate our offense. CJ isn't good, and is now looking like a bad RB.

Its four weeks, and this is where we are supposed to be able to "judge" our players and offense, right? Isn't that whta we said...give it four weeks? Well..... its not better. It's aweful. Our offense is truly, aweful.

Five weeks, actually. And yeah it's not getting any better. If anything it's getting worse. Oakland had the #31 pass defense and we still could do nothing against them offensively. And we haven't even gotten to the hard part of our schedule yet. I do not see things getting better.

[Ravage!!!]

Five weeks, actually. And yeah it's not getting any better. If anything it's getting worse. Oakland had the #31 pass defense and we still could do nothing against them offensively. And we haven't even gotten to the hard part of our schedule yet. I do not see things getting better.

see.. I'm so bored with the offense that I'm a week behind.

[BroncoWave]

Seems that we have a #58 that does that, as well. It's one of those things, that you like aggressive play and with that comes some of those penalties. But, damn.

I feel like Von's stem more from aggressiveness while Malik's stem more from being a bonehead. Like today, I didn't see it but I heard Malik threw a football at someone's head? That's not being overly aggressive, that's just being stupid. A lot of his stuff seems to be post whistle. A lot of Von's seem to be late hits on QBs when the play is at least still going on. I don't mind those as much because at least you are roughing the QB up and making him fear the pass rush.

[Traveler]

The Good: The Defense

The Bad: The offense. I haven't seen the offense play this bad since Tebow was here. Very hard and frustrating to watch. Until this OL gets the players they need, the defense will have to keep playing lights out. I've said that Peyton is ill equipt torn this offense and wanted Elway and company to move on once Fox got fired. My hope this is the last season with Manning.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Our running game might not look so bad if teams didn't load the box. Teams are just daring Manning to try and take the top off.

[underrated29]

The OL just blows!

I was hoping it would be coming into shape by now but then we get guys hurt and have to start Harris at LT and schoolfield at RT, for two games in a row. This should not be happening. These guys are garbage. The OL is oping to take even longer to get cohesive and we are going to run out of time.


Either Peyton needs to figure his shit out or the OL needs to figure it's shit out. Both are dragging us down. All w need is one to get it going. Just one. And right now they can't. Health hasn't helped but dayum.

[BroncoWave]

Our running game might not look so bad if teams didn't load the box. Teams are just daring Manning to try and take the top off.

Exactly. Until Manning can make teams pay for loading up to stop the run, the run game isn't going to get much better. Teams are not scared of him at all anymore, nor should they be.

[TXBRONC]

I'm going to keep this one really short and simple this week because this was a tale of two units today.

Good:

The defense. Accolades all around. They struggled a bit early, but after those first few drives Oakland could do nothing. Awesome pass rush on Carr and Chris Harris with the money pick-6 to seal the game.

Special teams. McManus was money again and the blocked FG early in the game wound up being huge.

As ugly as it might be, we are 5-0 and you can't beat that!

Bad:

The offense. The only person on offense who would go in the good category for this game is Sanders. Manning was awful again (sorry, it's true), and the running game was non-existent. DT was good but the dropped TD pass could have been a killer. I shudder to think of how our games against GB and NE are going to go with this offense.

The offensive line really misses Clady.

[Ravage!!!]

I actually think the OL is doing a much much better job. They always seem to lose a play or so Early in the game, but other than that... they did a pretty good job. Running the ball is going to be VERY hard when they know the QB can't beat you deep. Blitzing Manning is no longer a death sentence, so it's what teams are just gonna do. Stack the box, and that makes it sooohard for any OL.

[ShaneFalco]

broncos running game didnt even avg 2 yard per carry.

[Ravage!!!]

I also think the COMPLETE lack of a TE that can catch and/or a slot WR is killing this offense. Nothing pressures the middle of the field. Fowler made a great play, so its nice to see something from someone from time to time...but its pretty far in btween.

[underrated29]

I also think the COMPLETE lack of a TE that can catch and/or a slot WR is killing this offense. Nothing pressures the middle of the field. Fowler made a great play, so its nice to see something from someone from time to time...but its pretty far in btween.



Fowler needs to be in the slot. Not norwood. We need size in the slot. I think itll also help with blocking.



The game is changing in that area. Teams LBs are getting faster not bigger, to defend the pass. I think the days of the little man in the slot are dwindling down. Put the big guy in there and let him out out muscle the LBs for the catch. Look at Gronk. He does it all the time.


Dogfish and I had this conversation, only a couple smaller guys are really well in the slot right now. Edelman (who has Brady) and he said Tayvon Awesome....Other than that its just so so. The bigger guys, Stevie Johnson, the guy in seattle, fowler, they are doing really well. I would like to see cody or fowler in the slot. Less norwood. Not because I dont like Norwood, but I like the matchup of the bigger guys in the slot.

[NightTerror218]

The OL is have it rough. Go from a typical ZBS of Kubiaks to this new hybrid system. Running back coming from the pistol rather than full spead. Less likely to break arm tackles but means RB has to hit small holes and burst.

Running out of shot gun means RB needs to let blocking develop hole and be passient then hit hole and run.

It's like the OL is stuck I 2 different systems and at I do not think that will be fixed as long as Manning is QB.

Positive note, OL is much improved on pass blocking.

[NightTrainLayne]

The Good: We won an ugly one.

The Bad: We won't continue to win games against great teams.

I am reminded of a team, oh about 7 years ago. Started off 6-0 with some clutch wins behind a defense that would stiffen just enough, and an inept offense that made just enough plays.

This team is much better than that one. This one will likely make the playoffs whereas that one completely imploded. However, I don't see this team making much noise in the playoffs. As great as this defense is, the offense will have to score more than 3 FG's against elite teams. That's asking too much of any defense.

[gregbroncs]

I feel like Von's stem more from aggressiveness while Malik's stem more from being a bonehead. Like today, I didn't see it but I heard Malik threw a football at someone's head? That's not being overly aggressive, that's just being stupid. A lot of his stuff seems to be post whistle. A lot of Von's seem to be late hits on QBs when the play is at least still going on. I don't mind those as much because at least you are roughing the QB up and making him fear the pass rush.I saw it. A Raider threw the ball to Malik and he threw it at the receiver's head. It was stupid, he deserved the penalty, you have to keep your cool in that situation.

[NightTerror218]

The Good: We won an ugly one.

The Bad: We won't continue to win games against great teams.

I am reminded of a team, oh about 7 years ago. Started off 6-0 with some clutch wins behind a defense that would stiffen just enough, and an inept offense that made just enough plays.

This team is much better than that one. This one will likely make the playoffs whereas that one completely imploded. However, I don't see this team making much noise in the playoffs. As great as this defense is, the offense will have to score more than 3 FG's against elite teams. That's asking too much of any defense.

Are you referring to a certain McDaniels team with Orton?

[VonDoom]

I also think the COMPLETE lack of a TE that can catch and/or a slot WR is killing this offense. Nothing pressures the middle of the field. Fowler made a great play, so its nice to see something from someone from time to time...but its pretty far in btween.

It's still early, but I'm going to say Daniels was a bad pick up so far. He's done very little offensively and they seem intent on trying force the ball to him in the red zone, which has generally not worked out (not sure if there was miscommunication on Manning's first INT yesterday, but it was ugly regardless). I keep bringing up the idea of using Green to actually, you know, catch passes, but they don't seem to want to use him that way.

Also, I agree with more Fowler. Every catch that guy makes is a first down. I like Norwood fine, but Fowler seems like he could be more of a difference maker. Manning basically throws only to DT and Sanders now. It's one of many problems with this offense.

[NightTrainLayne]

Are you referring to a certain McDaniels team with Orton?

You're very perceptive! :salute: :D

[Slick]

It's still early, but I'm going to say Daniels was a bad pick up so far. He's done very little offensively and they seem intent on trying force the ball to him in the red zone, which has generally not worked out (not sure if there was miscommunication on Manning's first INT yesterday, but it was ugly regardless). I keep bringing up the idea of using Green to actually, you know, catch passes, but they don't seem to want to use him that way.

Also, I agree with more Fowler. Every catch that guy makes is a first down. I like Norwood fine, but Fowler seems like he could be more of a difference maker. Manning basically throws only to DT and Sanders now. It's one of many problems with this offense.

I'd like to see them use Green like they did JT. Maybe they did in camp and it didn't work out. Anyway, I thought we'd see Green get some more looks, and for some reason he's not.

[Valar Morghulis]

I'd like to see them use Green like they did JT. Maybe they did in camp and it didn't work out. Anyway, I thought we'd see Green get some more looks, and for some reason he's not.

Yeah me too, but also last season when we brought green in to block he really factored on improving our run game. Now he just seems like he is there to make up the numbers.

And Owen Daniels flat out sucks ass.

[Cugel]

It's still early, but I'm going to say Daniels was a bad pick up so far. He's done very little offensively and they seem intent on trying force the ball to him in the red zone, which has generally not worked out (not sure if there was miscommunication on Manning's first INT yesterday, but it was ugly regardless). I keep bringing up the idea of using Green to actually, you know, catch passes, but they don't seem to want to use him that way.

Also, I agree with more Fowler. Every catch that guy makes is a first down. I like Norwood fine, but Fowler seems like he could be more of a difference maker. Manning basically throws only to DT and Sanders now. It's one of many problems with this offense.

On the INT, Peyton was being blitzed and had to hurry his throw. He threw to a spot where Owen Daniels was supposed to be, but wasn't because he got held up at the LOS by another defender and was nowhere near the throw.

It was so bad that I couldn't understand till I went back and studied the replay why Peyton threw the ball there.

So, it came down to the OL not picking up the blitz, Peyton throwing early to a spot and Daniels not being there. If Peyton had longer to wait, perhaps he can wait for Daniels to come free, but in the face of the blitz he can't wait.

[Cugel]

The Good: The Defense

The Bad: The offense. I haven't seen the offense play this bad since Tebow was here. Very hard and frustrating to watch. Until this OL gets the players they need, the defense will have to keep playing lights out. I've said that Peyton is ill equipt torn this offense and wanted Elway and company to move on once Fox got fired. My hope this is the last season with Manning.

Be careful what you wish for! All those fans who think things are going to be better with Brock Osweiler next year if Peyton retires will be crying in their beer when they see how Osweiler struggles.

Unless this OL is worlds better than they are now, Osweiler would be sacked a LOT and intercepted a LOT because he doesn't have as quick a release as Peyton. He holds the ball a lot longer, and longer with this OL means SACK!

[VonDoom]

On the INT, Peyton was being blitzed and had to hurry his throw. He threw to a spot where Owen Daniels was supposed to be, but wasn't because he got held up at the LOS by another defender and was nowhere near the throw.

It was so bad that I couldn't understand till I went back and studied the replay why Peyton threw the ball there.

So, it came down to the OL not picking up the blitz, Peyton throwing early to a spot and Daniels not being there. If Peyton had longer to wait, perhaps he can wait for Daniels to come free, but in the face of the blitz he can't wait.

They have a couple of gifs of this up at the OM and I watched this play a bunch of times now. CJ flares out into the flat right away instead of picking up the blitzer. Not sure if he was supposed to pick him up or what, but Manning could have used him as a hot read where there were literally no defenders and CJ would have waltzed into the end zone. DT also got open on the left side, but Manning didn't have enough time to wait for that. He made an ill advised throw into double coverage which still might have worked if Daniels had cut in instead of being held and getting pushed around.

[Valar Morghulis]

When is Sanders due a contract, because most other teams, he is a number one receiver

Use peytons money to pay von

Who else do we need to lock up before investing in our offensive line?

Is it possible that we could have brocks line sorted or will it take a few years?

[NightTerror218]

You're very perceptive! :salute: :D

That was less than 7 yrs ago, maybe 5.

[NightTerror218]

When is Sanders due a contract, because most other teams, he is a number one receiver

Use peytons money to pay von

Who else do we need to lock up before investing in our offensive line?

Is it possible that we could have brocks line sorted or will it take a few years?

We have a lot of FA coming up. Von, Travathen, Bruton, Malik, Wolfe, Oz, hillman, Bolden

RFA
Marshall, Anderson, folwer, paradis

Ware and Talib get significant salary increases, Ware at $11.3 mill and Talib at $10 mill.chris Harris as well at $9mill.

Projected cuts: Owen $4.5 mill, Manning $21.5 mill, shelly smith $2.75 mill.

[Valar Morghulis]

We have a lot of FA coming up. Von, Travathen, Bruton, Malik, Wolfe, Oz, hillman, Bolden

RFA
Marshall, Anderson, folwer, paradis

Ware and Talib get significant salary increases, Ware at $11.3 mill and Talib at $10 mill.chris Harris as well at $9mill.

Projected cuts: Owen $4.5 mill, Manning $21.5 mill, shelly smith $2.75 mill.

how can Fowler be a RFA?

Ware is playing his way INTO that deal, as is Talib!

Von, Malik, Bruton, Oz and Marshall would be my priorities, after this seasons poor efforts, we could pick up Hillman or Anderson and relatively good deal

[Cugel]

They have a couple of gifs of this up at the OM and I watched this play a bunch of times now. CJ flares out into the flat right away instead of picking up the blitzer. Not sure if he was supposed to pick him up or what, but Manning could have used him as a hot read where there were literally no defenders and CJ would have waltzed into the end zone. DT also got open on the left side, but Manning didn't have enough time to wait for that. He made an ill advised throw into double coverage which still might have worked if Daniels had cut in instead of being held and getting pushed around.

Shorter version: He made a bad decision. He couldn't wait for the play to develop and he didn't have time to survey the field for other options. He threw to a spot and his TE wasn't there.

That's making a mistake because of pressure in his face due to a blitz and his OL not picking it up and giving him an chance to throw.

He's standing in the shot-gun and sees the blitz coming and goes to the hot read, his TE in the endzone, and he's not open.

That throw is totally due to not having time to wait.

[BroncoJoe]

Shorter version: He made a bad decision. He couldn't wait for the play to develop and he didn't have time to survey the field for other options. He threw to a spot and his TE wasn't there.

That's making a mistake because of pressure in his face due to a blitz and his OL not picking it up and giving him an chance to throw.

He's standing in the shot-gun and sees the blitz coming and goes to the hot read, his TE in the endzone, and he's not open.

That throw is totally due to not having time to wait.

There isn't a QB in the league with time to wait on every play. I really don't think you watch any games.

[NightTrainLayne]

That was less than 7 yrs ago, maybe 5.

It was the 2009 Team. That was 6 years ago.

[Cugel]

We have a lot of FA coming up. Von, Travathen, Bruton, Malik, Wolfe, Oz, hillman, Bolden

RFA
Marshall, Anderson, folwer, paradis

Ware and Talib get significant salary increases, Ware at $11.3 mill and Talib at $10 mill.chris Harris as well at $9mill.

Projected cuts: Owen $4.5 mill, Manning $21.5 mill, shelly smith $2.75 mill.

The Broncos will cut Ryan Clady who is scheduled to earn $9.5 million. If Ty Sambrailo continues to suck all season they could conceivably try and re-sign Clady to a lower deal, but I imagine they will cut ties with him and save the $9 million.

Talib is earning:


3/11/2014: Signed a six-year, $57 million contract. The deal contains $26 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus. Another $1.5 million is available through playing-time incentives. 2015: $5.5 million (+ $500,000 in per-game roster bonuses) (http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/den/), 2016: $8.5 million (+ $500,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2017-2018: $11 million, 2019: $8 million, 2020: Free Agent

So, Talib is earning $13.5 M not $10 M this season, and will earn $16.5 M next season (an increase of $3 M). He's certainly worth it so I imagine they keep him and pay him.

As for Ware:


3/12/2014: Signed a three-year, $30 million contract. The deal contains $20 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus. 2015: $7 million, 2016: $7 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2017: Free Agent

So in 2016 he's due $10 M, instead of the $7 M he's getting this season (not counting the pro-rated portion of his $5 M signing bonus from 2014).

The problem is that Peyton Manning's $19 M is guaranteed if he's on the roster at the end of the season:


3/20/2012: Signed a five-year, $96 million contract. The deal contains $18 million guaranteed. The guarantees rise to $60 million if Peyton passes a physical on March 13 of 2013 (He did). Manning also has a no-trade clause. Another $4 million is available through incentives in 2015. Manning's fourth-year salary becomes guaranteed if on roster at end of year three, and his fifth-year salary becomes guaranteed if on roster at end of year four. 2015: $15 million, 2016: $19 million, 2017: Free Agent


Since they are not going to release him this season, unless he retires he's going to put $19 M on the cap next year. If he wants to come back, they're going to have to pay him.

Of course, if he struggles all year, he may want to retire. But they can't just cut him because his contract is GUARANTEED!

[VonDoom]

Cap number is more relevant than "earnings". Talib's cap number is about $7 million this year, will be $10 million next year.

http://overthecap.com/player/aqib-talib/1624/

Ware's cap number is $8.66 million this year, $11.66 million next year:

http://overthecap.com/player/demarcus-ware/622/

[underrated29]

There isn't a QB in the league with time to wait on every play. I really don't think you watch any games.



Cugel is right. I went to the OM to check it out.

Manning got hit at 1.69 seconds. He got the ball out in 1.68 seconds.


Sure, no QB has time to sit and wait all day, but people talk about Tom brady being so hard to sack because he throws the ball in 2-2.5 seconds. Manning got a full second less! That guy came untouched, clean through the Agap. I dont know if CJ was the issue or not. The OL held their guys fine. Paradis held his man, vasquez his, schofield did alright on his. Evan got slightly beat but he held up and harris had a little help. The guy had a clean run. Not sure who was supposed to block that guy.

[wayninja]

Ware has a back strain, out 2 weeks. Good bye week timing.

[Northman]

Cugel is right. I went to the OM to check it out.

Manning got hit at 1.69 seconds. He got the ball out in 1.68 seconds.


Sure, no QB has time to sit and wait all day, but people talk about Tom brady being so hard to sack because he throws the ball in 2-2.5 seconds. Manning got a full second less! That guy came untouched, clean through the Agap. I dont know if CJ was the issue or not. The OL held their guys fine. Paradis held his man, vasquez his, schofield did alright on his. Evan got slightly beat but he held up and harris had a little help. The guy had a clean run. Not sure who was supposed to block that guy.

The Patriots Oline is not any better than ours this year yet they can still put points up on the board. I think last i heard Brady hasnt even thrown a pick this year yet even after being sacked 5 times yesterday.

[underrated29]

The Patriots Oline is not any better than ours this year yet they can still put points up on the board. I think last i heard Brady hasnt even thrown a pick this year yet even after being sacked 5 times yesterday.



Could be. I cannot comment as I have not watched them play at all.

[Northman]

Could be. I cannot comment as I have not watched them play at all.

I should add that there are still some other circumstances that separates them from our situation but i kind of take issue with people trying to pretend that Manning simply cant do anything behind our line (not you specifically) when other teams in the NFL have similar line issues of their own.

[Traveler]

Be careful what you wish for! All those fans who think things are going to be better with Brock Osweiler next year if Peyton retires will be crying in their beer when they see how Osweiler struggles.

Unless this OL is worlds better than they are now, Osweiler would be sacked a LOT and intercepted a LOT because he doesn't have as quick a release as Peyton. He holds the ball a lot longer, and longer with this OL means SACK!

No wishing is required. Denver had the chance to move on this past off-season but chose not to. Don't get me wrong, Osweiler is unproven and there is the chance he won't be much better than Manning. On this we agree.

My point is Manning isn't fit athletically to run this offense the way it should be and Elway should have moved on after last season ended. The offensive line is in shambles and won't be fixed for quite some time. Should have just taken their lumps this season under Osweiler so they would know if he is the QBOTF or if they should begin the search.

[Joel]

Cugel is right. I went to the OM to check it out.

Manning got hit at 1.69 seconds. He got the ball out in 1.68 seconds.

Sure, no QB has time to sit and wait all day, but people talk about Tom brady being so hard to sack because he throws the ball in 2-2.5 seconds. Manning got a full second less! That guy came untouched, clean through the Agap. I dont know if CJ was the issue or not. The OL held their guys fine. Paradis held his man, vasquez his, schofield did alright on his. Evan got slightly beat but he held up and harris had a little help. The guy had a clean run. Not sure who was supposed to block that guy.
When I saw the replay during the game I couldn't believe my eyes; guy lines up right over the center, then Paradis goes right and Mathis left at the snap: Free shot from spitting distance.


The Patriots Oline is not any better than ours this year yet they can still put points up on the board. I think last i heard Brady hasnt even thrown a pick this year yet even after being sacked 5 times yesterday.
Pretty much EVERY line is better than ours now; some COLLEGE lines are better. And no one here wants to hear yet again how well *E cheats.


I should add that there are still some other circumstances that separates them from our situation but i kind of take issue with people trying to pretend that Manning simply cant do anything behind our line (not you specifically) when other teams in the NFL have similar line issues of their own.
We have a new coach, complex new system, ONE returning starter and TWO starters getting the first NFL snaps of their CAREERS: Name three other teams with "similar" issues.

[DenBronx]

The sad part is we gave raider fans a glimmer of hope. I love seeing the streak continue and them full of nothing but sorrow and sadness, 9-0 now.

Well, except DevilSpawn, he's ok with me.

We are not abusing them like we have in the past. Games against the raiders should not be that close.

[Northman]

The sad part is we gave raider fans a glimmer of hope. I love seeing the streak continue and them full of nothing but sorrow and sadness, 9-0 now.

Well, except DevilSpawn, he's ok with me.

We are not abusing them like we have in the past. Games against the raiders should not be that close.

I would just be happy if Manning didnt keep throwing Int's every game. If he wants to throw 5 yds every play and just play field position lets do so, but quit turning the ******* thing over. Ive never been his biggest fan to begin with and this season is not doing anything to help that unfortunately.