Broncos set to release TE/FB James Casey

[VonDoom]

Guess this will be the move to free up a spot for Wolfe:

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl 7m7 minutes ago

#Broncos are going to release FB James Casey, per league source.

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl 4m4 minutes ago

Kubiak used Casey as a FB, but other teams see him more as a TE.

[elsid13]

Can myth and legend Joe Don Duncan | be headed back to Denver?

[Timmy!]

Can myth and legend Joe Don Duncan | be headed back to Denver?

I doubt it. Pistol & Gun: no FB needed.

[VonDoom]

Can myth and legend Joe Don Duncan | be headed back to Denver?

While I would love this, I think Timmy's right - we're not running the traditional Kubiak offense and this clinches it. We'll pick up a FB next year when Os is back there.

[Joel]

Makes sense; better than releasing

1) Either the #3 OR #4 vet DE who's played solidly the whole last month,
2) A 2nd year #5 DE who's flashed in both camps but been kept off the field by injury,
3) The vet #4 OT familiar with the ZBS when only ONE other OT had played an NFL down before this season or
4) The #5 CB in a league where nickelbacks are practically starters now and even dimebacks see plenty of action.

Casey had snaps in several September games, but from my admittedly limited vantage, looked unremarkable. I don't recall whether he played last week (our run blocking's best so far) but saw him at least 2 of the first 3 games, when we averaged <3 yds/att (NFL average is perennially 4.2.) It's hard to believe we'd have done WORSE without him, and I still believe there's so little demand for FBs now that, if Kubiak really wants one, he can probably find a good one pretty cheaply without trying to convert a TE. That's the kind of attempt to make a silks purse from a sows ear that got him trouble with Griese and Schaub.

[elsid13]

I doubt it. Pistol & Gun: no FB needed.

Can you not let me have my dreams? Darn you!

[VonDoom]

Makes sense; better than releasing

1) Either the #3 OR #4 vet DE who's played solidly the whole last month,
2) A 2nd year #5 DE who's flashed in both camps but been kept off the field by injury,
3) The vet #4 OT familiar with the ZBS when only ONE other OT had played an NFL down before this season or
4) The #5 CB in a league where nickelbacks are practically starters now and even dimebacks see plenty of action.

Casey had snaps in several September games, but from my admittedly limited vantage, looked unremarkable. I don't recall whether he played last week (our run blocking's best so far) but saw him at least 2 of the first 3 games, when we averaged <3 yds/att (NFL average is perennially 4.2.) It's hard to believe we'd have done WORSE without him, and I still believe there's so little demand for FBs now that, if Kubiak really wants one, he can probably find a good one pretty cheaply without trying to convert a TE. That's the kind of attempt to make a silks purse from a sows ear that got him trouble with Griese and Schaub.

Casey was inactive in week three. The other three weeks, he played 21, 24 and 22 snaps, respectively, but only 7, 7 and 6 of those were on offense (others were ST). So he's played a grand total of 20 offensive snaps in the four games we've played. I can't remember anything about his ST work but if it was spectacular, I doubt they cut him.

[Joel]

Casey was inactive in week three. The other three weeks, he played 21, 24 and 22 snaps, respectively, but only 7, 7 and 6 of those were on offense (others were ST). So he's played a grand total of 20 offensive snaps in the four games we've played. I can't remember anything about his ST work but if it was spectacular, I doubt they cut him.
Well, we DO have a lot of guys who made the 53 in no small part due to excellent STs play. Your basic point's valid regardless though, and thanks for filling in the blanks for me.

[VonDoom]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2h2 hours ago

I have confirmed that #broncos will release FB James Casey to make room for DE Derek Wolfe

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h1 hour ago

Casey became expendable when #broncos moved to pistol formation using a lot of two tight end sets Wish well. Great guy. Total pro

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h1 hour ago

Correction #Broncos hadn't featured a true fullback on their 53-man roster since Chris Gronkowski in 2012. No room for one now in pistol

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h1 hour ago

Again, Casey is a total pro. I would expect him to catch on as a TE with another team. And he's also good on special teams. #Broncos

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 60m60 minutes ago

James Casey did not receive signing bonus when he signed a 1-year deal in offseason -- had a $750,000 base salary w/$500,000 roster bonus

[VonDoom]

Well, we DO have a lot of guys who made the 53 in no small part due to excellent STs play. Your basic point's valid regardless though, and thanks for filling in the blanks for me.

Anytime. Your question made me Google snap counts. Apparently Football Outsiders has a table that they take from the media only site NFLGSIS

[Joel]

Anytime. Your question made me Google snap counts. Apparently Football Outsiders has a table that they take from the media only site NFLGSIS
Nice; love me some FO. It's easily the best thing The Hidden Game of Football inspired.

[tomjonesrocks]

Mixed on this. Liked going back to a fullback thinking about Griffith days, and what if Manning gets hurt? Stay in the pistol? Wouldn't they want a FB is Oz is in there?

But I do like Kubiak isn't bullheaded. We know what he would prefer to do but is adapting. So many guys refuse to do that at the expense of wins and losses.

[Valar Morghulis]

Have we even used a full back this year?

[Joel]

Mixed on this. Liked going back to a fullback thinking about Griffith days, and what if Manning gets hurt? Stay in the pistol? Wouldn't they want a FB is Oz is in there?

But I do like Kubiak isn't bullheaded. We know what he would prefer to do but is adapting. So many guys refuse to do that at the expense of wins and losses.
If we wanted a FB, we should've drafted/signed one; it's not like we had many competing offers to beat for a good one, and converting a player from even a very similar DIFFERENT position's unlikely to yield a good ANYTHING. This is a rare case where I disagreed with Kubes (most of those case amount to, IMHO, Kubes outsmarting himself.)

On paper it looked savvy, because traditional FBs and TEs are so similar. Theoretically, it could even work the other way if we found a FB with really good speed and hands (for a FB) because the demand for FBs is so low and demand for TEs so high we have much more, better and affordable choices among FBs than TEs. But that's why anyone at the coveted (i.e. lucrative) TE position willing to convert to the undesirable (i.e. unlucrative) FB position is probably the dregs of the talent barrel, and we still have to make an offer good enough to beat what anyone else will pay for even a BAD TE.

[Dzone]

Well since virgil green has disappeared as a ball catching TE maybe he will resurface as a blocking fullback if oz takes over. ha

[UnderArmour]

Well since virgil green has disappeared as a ball catching TE maybe he will resurface as a blocking fullback if oz takes over. ha

When.

Manning is playing like ass again, so it's just a matter of time. I'm not buying Manning finishing the year because although he has flashes, his norm now is holding the team back... :behindsofa:

[Dzone]

Yes, It was disturbing to hear that Manning was throwing terrible in practice and was seen shaking his head in frustration. They were Saying he has lost control of his accuracy. Kind of scary if thats true. Like a pitcher who can no longer throw strikes. But damn, I hate to doubt the guy because everytime I doubt him he proves me wrong

[Yashahla17]

This guy could be a good leading blocker and check down option but we cant run kubiak system with manning so he's cut.

[Yashahla17]

Yes, It was disturbing to hear that Manning was throwing terrible in practice and was seen shaking his head in frustration. They were Saying he has lost control of his accuracy. Kind of scary if thats true. Like a pitcher who can no longer throw strikes. But damn, I hate to doubt the guy because everytime I doubt him he proves me wrong

Manning is capable of SOMETIMES making a good throw or two. But since when does a qb making 15 million and having a HC have to change his entire scheme be here to make a throw or two? Manning is a liability to this team. And it'll only get worse. His physical ability is just shot. Look at his facial expressions when he has to throw past 10 yards. He's putting his all into short 10 yard throws and his facial expressions says it's hurting.

[BroncoJoe]

Manning is capable of SOMETIMES making a good throw or two. But since when does a qb making 15 million and having a HC have to change his entire scheme be here to make a throw or two? Manning is a liability to this team. And it'll only get worse. His physical ability is just shot. Look at his facial expressions when he has to throw past 10 yards. He's putting his all into short 10 yard throws and his facial expressions says it's hurting.

I have noticed that this year - he is really grimacing when he throws. Not sure if it's new or not, but I'd think I would have noticed it before.

[Ravage!!!]

At the same time.. when has "kubiaks system" won anything after Elway wasn't the QB? Why does anyone think that "kubiak's system" is the answer? We brought Kubiak in to work with Manning and bring the running game....for Manning. Let's be real and realize that although Manning isn't 100% by any means, his head still is. Even if all he becomes is a game manager, that football smarts is still one of the greatest in the game. There is NOTHING that we've seen from Brock to suggests that he can be anything close to that, at all, yet. "Kubiak's system".... didn't exactly prove to be a success in Houston. It took him a long time, with a lot of talent, to finally show signs.

[Yashahla17]

I have noticed that this year - he is really grimacing when he throws. Not sure if it's new or not, but I'd think I would have noticed it before.

Oh its not brand new because he looked the same way vs indy last year. People just blamed the quad injury or whatever. Perfectly fine now and is grimacing after every throw 10 or more. It is hurting this dude to throw the ball with any kind of big league velocity. He has to try so hard just to get the ball downfield thats why his accuracy is gone. Cant be accurate when you know you cant get the ball there without loading up and giving every single throw all your body has which still isn't enough. Anybody whose ever thrown a football knows when you put everything you got,into a throw its not going to be accurate.

[Yashahla17]

We brung manning here to be a liability and manage games? He throws 1-2 ints per game and some pick sixes so he clearly can't manage a game. At what point does people just realize he is finished? He is finished. He had a great run in the league as the best regular season quarterback ever. But its over.

[Valar Morghulis]

We brung manning here to be a liability and manage games? He throws 1-2 ints per game and some pick sixes so he clearly can't manage a game. At what point does people just realize he is finished? He is finished. He had a great run in the league as the best regular season quarterback ever. But its over.

Hey Yash,

how do you feel about our defense, or options at WR, or our O-Line?

I get that you hate manning (or at least dont rate his ability any more) but i am wondering about your thoughts on the rest of our team.

[Ravage!!!]

We brung manning here to be a liability and manage games? He throws 1-2 ints per game and some pick sixes so he clearly can't manage a game. At what point does people just realize he is finished? He is finished. He had a great run in the league as the best regular season quarterback ever. But its over.

We brought Manning in to make us Super Bowl contenders. Has he not done that? Are we not 4-0?

There is no doubt that Manning isn't the Manning of old, but there is NO WAYYYYY you can say Brock is better than Manning. Not yet. He's not "finished"...as he's still the starting QB of an 4-0 team. Brock hasn't proved shit yet in the NFL, and considering we are 4-0, you can't hand him the reigns. Not yet, nooo way. You would be foolish to put this team in the hands of a COMPLETE unknown.

You obviously aren't a Manning fan, as you use the insult of "best regular season QB ever"..... I'm guessing a patriots fan of some kind.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

We brung manning here to be a liability and manage games? He throws 1-2 ints per game and some pick sixes so he clearly can't manage a game. At what point does people just realize he is finished? He is finished. He had a great run in the league as the best regular season quarterback ever. But its over.

I would like for you to try and convince me that at this point, how the Broncos would be better off with OZ at QB. With Manning, the Broncos have 4 WINS - 0 LOSSES - IMO, can't get any better than that.

[SR]

I would like for you to try and convince me that at this point, how the Broncos would be better off with OZ at QB. With Manning, the Broncos have 4 WINS - 0 LOSSES - IMO, can't get any better than that.

Oh I dunno. Brock is young, mobile, smart, huge arm and can make all the throws. Seems like there's no upside to him at all.

[Ravage!!!]

Oh I dunno. Brock is young, mobile, smart, huge arm and can make all the throws. Seems like there's no upside to him at all.

That sounds like a description of every young QB coming out of college into the NFL.

I mean, how many times have we heard that word.... potential... in regards to unknown QBs before? Sure, we like to th ink that Brock could be (will be?) the answer to the future of our Broncos....but it certainly doesn't make sense to hand over the reigns to him, right now.

[SR]

That sounds like a description of every young QB coming out of college into the NFL. I mean, how many times have we heard that word.... potential... in regards to unknown QBs before? Sure, we like to th ink that Brock could be (will be?) the answer to the future of our Broncos....but it certainly doesn't make sense to hand over the reigns to him, right now.
I'm not an advocate for benching Manning. I think Manning gives Denver the best chance at winning right now. I also think Brock will be awesome for the team when it's his time. The head-in-the-sand favoring of Peyton is a bit naive at this point though.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I would like for you to try and convince me that at this point, how the Broncos would be better off with OZ at QB. With Manning, the Broncos have 4 WINS - 0 LOSSES - IMO, can't get any better than that.

I a have been fairly critical of Manning this year, but it would be ignorant to overlook the 4th quarter scoring drives he's led.
He has also improved since the beginning of the season. He outplayed Bridgewater last week.
Osweiler had huge upside, but at this point that's all it is. We're not going to scrap a known commodity for upside while we're winning football games and scoring TD's late in the 4th quarter.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

My point was that the Broncos have 4 wins, 0 losses, with Peyton. That's the best it can get. I could see people being negative towards Peyton if that record was reversed - 0 wins, 4 losses, but that is not the case.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

My point was that the Broncos have 4 wins, 0 losses, with Peyton. That's the best it can get. I could see people being negative towards Peyton if that record was reversed - 0 wins, 4 losses, but that is not the case.

I understood that. I was agreeing with you.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I a have been fairly critical of Manning this year, but it would be ignorant to overlook the 4th quarter scoring drives he's led.
He has also improved since the beginning of the season. He outplayed Bridgewater last week.
Osweiler had huge upside, but at this point that's all it is. We're not going to scrap a known commodity for upside while we're winning football games and scoring TD's late in the 4th quarter.

Totally agree. I believe Peyton has improved, because the OL is improving.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I understood that. I was agreeing with you.

I know. That was not meant for you.

[Valar Morghulis]

Obviously i am a Peyton fan - but i dont buy 4-0 is as good as it gets.

The Chiefs were 10-0 and they were a bad team a few years ago.

We are nowhere near a bad team, but we are not currently a good team either. Our offense is pedestrian at best - Manning is a big part of that (but then again, so is the O-Line and a new scheme)

In summary, i am pleased with 4-0, i still take manning over Brock - but, we are a flawed team and if we dont sort it, i doubt we can beat the Pack or the Pats next month. If we cant beat them, i doubt we play more than one game in the post season.

So for me, we are playing the best hand we have (manning) and i think we just need to hope for the best, i think that is a better option than playing Brock....and then hoping for the best.

[ShaneFalco]

casey was never a true fb. more of a hybrid te. never understood the signing in the first place.

[SR]

My point was that the Broncos have 4 wins, 0 losses, with Peyton. That's the best it can get. I could see people being negative towards Peyton if that record was reversed - 0 wins, 4 losses, but that is not the case.

Unfortunately for all of us Manning fans, the team is winning despite his shortcomings so far this season. Manning has never been the issue until now and he is a liability whether people want to admit it or not. Do I think he'll settle in? Yes. Do I think he will stop turning the ball over? Maybe by half of what he's done so far. I'm not sure what the future holds for this team for the rest of the season but if the offense can't stay on the field the defense will wear out and be gassed when they're needed the most.

[SR]

Totally agree. I believe Peyton has improved, because the OL is improving.

I don't think he has really improved. I don't think the offensive line has really improved. He's clearly more comfortable in the shotgun and pistol but at this point in his career he can't be relied upon to shoulder the burden of a bad offensive line. Any suggestion that the offensive line is anything other than bad right now is a poor observation. They're bad. He needs a good line and an established run game; two things this team lacks.

[I Eat Staples]

I don't think he has really improved. I don't think the offensive line has really improved. He's clearly more comfortable in the shotgun and pistol but at this point in his career he can't be relied upon to shoulder the burden of a bad offensive line. Any suggestion that the offensive line is anything other than bad right now is a poor observation. They're bad. He needs a good line and an established run game; two things this team lacks.

I agree with you, but Osweiler (or any young QB except maybe Luck or Mariota) needs those things too. It would be counterproductive to throw Os out there with how bad the line is and our inability to run the ball.

Do we really think Osweiler would have lead that game-tying drive against KC? Or the go-ahead drive against Minnesota? Or the long drive to almost close out the game against Baltimore? Or the game-sealing drive against Detroit? I'm not saying he isn't capable of any of that, but even with Manning's limitations and struggles, I trust him a lot more in those situations than an unproven QB like Os, and he's come through almost every time so far.

[SR]

I agree with you, but Osweiler (or any young QB except maybe Luck or Mariota) needs those things too. It would be counterproductive to throw Os out there with how bad the line is and our inability to run the ball. Do we really think Osweiler would have lead that game-tying drive against KC? Or the go-ahead drive against Minnesota? Or the long drive to almost close out the game against Baltimore? Or the game-sealing drive against Detroit? I'm not saying he isn't capable of any of that, but even with Manning's limitations and struggles, I trust him a lot more in those situations than an unproven QB like Os, and he's come through almost every time so far.

Os has the youth and athletic ability to keep plays alive longer. He can scramble, he can run, and he can not do the fainting goat.

I can't answer those questions.

[Ravage!!!]

Obviously i am a Peyton fan - but i dont buy 4-0 is as good as it gets.

The Chiefs were 10-0 and they were a bad team a few years ago.

We are nowhere near a bad team, but we are not currently a good team either. Our offense is pedestrian at best - Manning is a big part of that (but then again, so is the O-Line and a new scheme)

In summary, i am pleased with 4-0, i still take manning over Brock - but, we are a flawed team and if we dont sort it, i doubt we can beat the Pack or the Pats next month. If we cant beat them, i doubt we play more than one game in the post season.

So for me, we are playing the best hand we have (manning) and i think we just need to hope for the best, i think that is a better option than playing Brock....and then hoping for the best.


I think this says it perfectly, great post Val.

Let me add: Manning isn't the Manning we know, and is only a detriment COMPARED to what Manning has done in the past. But, is he a detriment compared to MANY other QBs in the NFL? Hardly. Is he a detriment compared to Os? Most probably not, it's hard to say as Os hasn't had a single NFL start.

We watch the Broncos and Manning and expect "x" results and play from the QB. We are judging Manning based on Manning's past and not the Manning today. Peyton is going to have to learn to play a different role. He's going to have to be a much more of a game manager. With the defense we have, we CAN absolutely win that way. We've seen it happen many times in the NFL. Defenses keeping the offense in the game ENOUGH. The Seahawks haven't won a single game where the opposing team scores more than 26 points since Wilson has been the QB. Where have they been the last 2 years?

This BS junk of "we didn't bring Manning in to be a game manager"....is just terrible insight. Manning CAN win games when asked, but lets stop asking him to score 30 points a game to do it, and let him be the guy that puts this team in the best spot possible, and win in a different fashion than we have the last 2 years.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think this says it perfectly, great post Val.

Let me add: Manning isn't the Manning we know, and is only a detriment COMPARED to what Manning has done in the past. But, is he a detriment compared to MANY other QBs in the NFL? Hardly. Is he a detriment compared to Os? Most probably not, it's hard to say as Os hasn't had a single NFL start.

We watch the Broncos and Manning and expect "x" results and play from the QB. We are judging Manning based on Manning's past and not the Manning today. Peyton is going to have to learn to play a different role. He's going to have to be a much more of a game manager. With the defense we have, we CAN absolutely win that way. We've seen it happen many times in the NFL. Defenses keeping the offense in the game ENOUGH. The Seahawks haven't won a single game where the opposing team scores more than 26 points since Wilson has been the QB. Where have they been the last 2 years?

This BS junk of "we didn't bring Manning in to be a game manager"....is just terrible insight. Manning CAN win games when asked, but lets stop asking him to score 30 points a game to do it, and let him be the guy that puts this team in the best spot possible, and win in a different fashion than we have the last 2 years.

Totally agree - i think manning may need to change the expectations he places upon himself - that should also result in fewer pics as he will no longer be trying to be 2013 manning and will settle for superbowl winning 2015 manning lol

[Ravage!!!]

Totally agree - i think manning may need to change the expectations he places upon himself - that should also result in fewer pics as he will no longer be trying to be 2013 manning and will settle for superbowl winning 2015 manning lol

He'll have to be more willing to throw that ball away. Russell Wilson throws more balls away than anyone. Their offense is pretty bad, and has been pretty bad, over the last couple years. Peyton has to be wiling to throw it away, and when you watch Peyton, he's still that slinger that won't give up on a play or a WR able to break out. I think he'll have to change that mindset, and live with the "we'll get them on the next series" game plan. Let the defense step up, and give us that good field position. We will ahve to be the offense that simply takes what is given, and then play field position. I personally hate that its that way, but we have the talent to pull that off to great success considering who we have as our "game manager" at QB. There isn't a smarter one in the NFL.

[Simple Jaded]

Manning sucks, Kubiak's system is shit and now they've dumped the only "FB" on the roster? This is the worst 4-0 start evah!

[VonDoom]

I think this says it perfectly, great post Val.

Let me add: Manning isn't the Manning we know, and is only a detriment COMPARED to what Manning has done in the past. But, is he a detriment compared to MANY other QBs in the NFL? Hardly. Is he a detriment compared to Os? Most probably not, it's hard to say as Os hasn't had a single NFL start.

We watch the Broncos and Manning and expect "x" results and play from the QB. We are judging Manning based on Manning's past and not the Manning today. Peyton is going to have to learn to play a different role. He's going to have to be a much more of a game manager. With the defense we have, we CAN absolutely win that way. We've seen it happen many times in the NFL. Defenses keeping the offense in the game ENOUGH. The Seahawks haven't won a single game where the opposing team scores more than 26 points since Wilson has been the QB. Where have they been the last 2 years?

This BS junk of "we didn't bring Manning in to be a game manager"....is just terrible insight. Manning CAN win games when asked, but lets stop asking him to score 30 points a game to do it, and let him be the guy that puts this team in the best spot possible, and win in a different fashion than we have the last 2 years.

This probably says it better than I can. The only thing Manning has to do this year is understand his limitations at his age and adapt. He's shown the ability to adapt to changes in his physical condition before, like when he basically re-taught himself how to be a top QB again after the neck surgery.

Manning now is being compared to Manning of old, which is leading to the criticisms, as you said. Game manager should not be a negative - just look at how Brady won his early Super Bowls. Cut down on the mistakes and we wouldn't be having this conversation, even with a poor line and no running game.

[Yashahla17]

Hey Yash,

how do you feel about our defense, or options at WR, or our O-Line?

I get that you hate manning (or at least dont rate his ability any more) but i am wondering about your thoughts on the rest of our team.

Other than some early hickups on oline the rest of the team is stacked. Itll be a wasted year of having a stacked team aslong as manning is back there. Thats the truth. I believe ive stated this numerous time.

[Bosco]

While I would love this, I think Timmy's right - we're not running the traditional Kubiak offense and this clinches it. We'll pick up a FB next year when Os is back there.

I told people over the offseason that the idea we'd use a fullback outside of obvious short yardage situations was wrong. Clearly, that has turned out to be the case. I wouldn't exactly hold your breath for one returning in the post-Manning era either.

That said, I'm a little unhappy about losing Casey. He is a hell of an elite and I would have liked to seen him get snaps at TE. He could have turned into a very good receiving threat in that role.

[Yashahla17]

We brought Manning in to make us Super Bowl contenders. Has he not done that? Are we not 4-0?

There is no doubt that Manning isn't the Manning of old, but there is NO WAYYYYY you can say Brock is better than Manning. Not yet. He's not "finished"...as he's still the starting QB of an 4-0 team. Brock hasn't proved shit yet in the NFL, and considering we are 4-0, you can't hand him the reigns. Not yet, nooo way. You would be foolish to put this team in the hands of a COMPLETE unknown.

You obviously aren't a Manning fan, as you use the insult of "best regular season QB ever"..... I'm guessing a patriots fan of some kind.

What does the record have to do with anything when its clear as day this team is winning despite manning? Shall we bring back cant throw tebow because he just won? It was ugly as hell winning but yet winning. No. Tebow wasnt the real answer and niether is manning. Ive been a bronco fan since 88 and im being totally honest manning is the best regular season quarterback ever. 20 years 1 ring, poor playoff record, poor playoff stats, every record ever in the regular season and averages about 12 wins in the regilar season. Hes had a great regular season run. Its over.

[Yashahla17]

I a have been fairly critical of Manning this year, but it would be ignorant to overlook the 4th quarter scoring drives he's led.
He has also improved since the beginning of the season. He outplayed Bridgewater last week.
Osweiler had huge upside, but at this point that's all it is. We're not going to scrap a known commodity for upside while we're winning football games and scoring TD's late in the 4th quarter.

Led? You mean throwing wobbly floating jump balls for these elite wideouts to go up and bail him out? Wow its crazy it almost sounds as bad as tebow homers with the level of credit he got for everything everybody else did.

[aberdien]

We brung manning here to be a liability and manage games? He throws 1-2 ints per game and some pick sixes so he clearly can't manage a game. At what point does people just realize he is finished? He is finished. He had a great run in the league as the best regular season quarterback ever. But its over.

Is "brung" even a word

[Simple Jaded]

I told people over the offseason that the idea we'd use a fullback outside of obvious short yardage situations was wrong. Clearly, that has turned out to be the case. I wouldn't exactly hold your breath for one returning in the post-Manning era either.

That said, I'm a little unhappy about losing Casey. He is a hell of an elite and I would have liked to seen him get snaps at TE. He could have turned into a very good receiving threat in that role.

I was on the other end of those FB predictions you made and i don't remember you saying the Broncos wouldn't have a FB because Manning can no longer function from under C. None of this proves that what you said was right.

They brought in several players to play the FB position and I fully expect them to do so Post-Manning.

[Joel]

At the same time.. when has "kubiaks system" won anything after Elway wasn't the QB? Why does anyone think that "kubiak's system" is the answer? We brought Kubiak in to work with Manning and bring the running game....for Manning. Let's be real and realize that although Manning isn't 100% by any means, his head still is. Even if all he becomes is a game manager, that football smarts is still one of the greatest in the game. There is NOTHING that we've seen from Brock to suggests that he can be anything close to that, at all, yet. "Kubiak's system".... didn't exactly prove to be a success in Houston. It took him a long time, with a lot of talent, to finally show signs.
Houston was a 2-14 fledgling expansion team when Kubiak got there: He TRIPLED their wins in a single year, got them their first EVER non-losing season in just one more year, got them their first WINNING season EVER just two years later, then got them their first division title EVER and playoff win EVER just two years after that. With MATT SCHAUB at QB the whole time. What's he gotta do, make a last place team SB Champs by the end of his first draft? Here's an interesting bit of trivia:

EVERY starting QB Kubiaks ever had made at least one Pro Bowl; anyone think that's because Brian Griese and Matt Schaub were elite? He'll get the most out of his QBs and RBs, because that's what he does. But our massive problem's not at the so-called "skill" positions, and it's gonna take time to rebuild the dogs dinner of an offensive line we've had for at least 5 years: That's why all but two of those guys are GONE. It's still gonna take more time for the new ones to get into each others rhythm, and that of their brand new offense (though Harris has experience with the offense, which is why he's back.)


Oh I dunno. Brock is young, mobile, smart, huge arm and can make all the throws. Seems like there's no upside to him at all.
Just me, but I've yet to see Oz make all or even MOST "the throws." Maybe because I don't go to camp or watch much preseason, but that's because playing teammates and opponents scrubs is a poor indicator of how a guy will perform against REAL defenses in the regular and postseason. Granted, the few times Manning's allowed Oz to play in the regular season aren't the best scenarios to test a QB: Anyone can hand off on a couple line plunges, and few QBs do well with the ensuing 3rd and long pass to keep the drive alive against a defense that knows it's coming.

Oz is still a long way from a proven or even tested QB though, and with EVERYONE struggling to adapt to a complex first-year offense, it won't hurt to give him a full season of study before his first NFL start EVER, especially since our line can only improve in the interim. Nothing dooms a "promising" QB faster or more certainly than sticking him behind a Swiss cheese line. A first ballot HoFer like Manning is about the only guy who CAN succeed in that scenario, and if he's not, don't expect Oz would do any better after 4 years WATCHING the NFL from the front row while Manning got all the game and practice time.

[Joel]

Is "brung" even a word
'Course it is, especially in football, where the old adage is "dance with the one that brung ya." Just to be clear: That's NOT Brock Osweiler. Who's also not a TE/FB, btw. ;)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Led? You mean throwing wobbly floating jump balls for these elite wideouts to go up and bail him out? Wow its crazy it almost sounds as bad as tebow homers with the level of credit he got for everything everybody else did.

Go pound sand dude.

[Yashahla17]

Is "brung" even a word

From here on out yeah.

[TXBRONC]

Obviously i am a Peyton fan - but i dont buy 4-0 is as good as it gets.

The Chiefs were 10-0 and they were a bad team a few years ago.

We are nowhere near a bad team, but we are not currently a good team either. Our offense is pedestrian at best - Manning is a big part of that (but then again, so is the O-Line and a new scheme)

In summary, i am pleased with 4-0, i still take manning over Brock - but, we are a flawed team and if we dont sort it, i doubt we can beat the Pack or the Pats next month. If we cant beat them, i doubt we play more than one game in the post season.

So for me, we are playing the best hand we have (manning) and i think we just need to hope for the best, i think that is a better option than playing Brock....and then hoping for the best.

Opposing defenses are pressing our receivers at the line of scrimmage daring Manning to beat them over the top and he's missing on a lot of those passes.

[Yashahla17]

Go pound sand dude.

Relax dude. Manning has only been a broncos a few years and won nothing. Why are some of you so passionate anout him?

[Valar Morghulis]

Opposing defenses are pressing our receivers at the line of scrimmage daring Manning to beat them over the top and he's missing on a lot of those passes.

What does that mean in relation to the conversation?

Is that a pro Brock, or a pro manning contribution?

[Yashahla17]

Opposing defenses are pressing our receivers at the line of scrimmage daring Manning to beat them over the top and he's missing on a lot of those passes.

And the ones hes connected on were jump balls with thomas and sanders going up snatching the ball. The rest are dirt balls or sailing over heads.

[TXBRONC]

What does that mean in relation to the conversation?

Is that a pro Brock, or a pro manning contribution?

It means that while I like Manning he's struggling to help the team win games.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Relax dude. Manning has only been a broncos a few years and won nothing. Why are some of you so passionate anout him?

You are ascribing motive and intent I don't have, and it's annoying. I'm not partial to Manning. I have been very critical of him in this site. Its my opinion that right now he's our best chance go win because Osweiler is an unknown.

I've even said some of the jump balls were under thrown. I'm just not convinced Brock can handle the 4th quarter situations.

I don't think Manning is a top 5 qb anymore. I just think he needs to play like a top 10-13 qb for us to have a shot to win the SB. I don't know for sure if he can. It could go either way

[TXBRONC]

You are ascribing motive and intent I don't have, and it's annoying. I'm not partial to Manning. I have been very critical of him in this site. Its my opinion that right now he's our best chance go win because Osweiler is an unknown.

I've even said some of the jump balls were under thrown. I'm just not convinced Brock can handle the 4th quarter situations.

I don't think Manning is a top 5 qb anymore. I just think he needs to play like a top 10-13 qb for us to have a shot to win the SB. I don't know for sure if he can. It could go either way

I think this is spot on.

[Bosco]

I was on the other end of those FB predictions you made and i don't remember you saying the Broncos wouldn't have a FB because Manning can no longer function from under C. None of this proves that what you said was right. I said the Broncos wouldn't use a fullback with the frequency people were expecting. We're now about to be 5 weeks into the season and have only seen a handful of plays with a FB and we just released the only fullback on the roster. I couldn't have been more right on that.


They brought in several players to play the FB position and I fully expect them to do so Post-Manning. Oh don't get me wrong. I'm sure we'll carry a fullback on the roster, I just imagine he will be a minor role player as is the league wide norm.

[Simple Jaded]

I said the Broncos wouldn't use a fullback with the frequency people were expecting. We're now about to be 5 weeks into the season and have only seen a handful of plays with a FB and we just released the only fullback on the roster. I couldn't have been more right on that.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm sure we'll carry a fullback on the roster, I just imagine he will be a minor role player as is the league wide norm.

I don't get you wrong, you're doing that just fine on your own.

Your prediction amounts to little more than semantics.

[Bosco]

I don't get you wrong, you're doing that just fine on your own.

Your prediction amounts to little more than semantics.

I really have no idea what you're even arguing. I said we wouldn't use the fullback much and that has proven correct. It's not even disputable at this point.

Edit: I see you were acting like a bit of a ***** when that last discussion happened (didn't see it at the time since I wasn't posting much). Given your hubris, your current state of butthurt makes total sense.

Carry on.

[MOtorboat]

He's saluting himself. :pound:

:popcorn:

[Simple Jaded]

O
I really have no idea what you're even arguing. I said we wouldn't use the fullback much and that has proven correct. It's not even disputable at this point.

Edit: I see you were acting like a bit of a ***** when that last discussion happened (didn't see it at the time since I wasn't posting much). Given your hubris, your current state of butthurt makes total sense.

Carry on.

Iirc your stance was that we were stupid for hoping to see more FB because that's just not how the NFL works anymore, I also seem to remember you making semantics arguments about what actually constitutes a FB, nowhere did you predict that they couldn't use a FB because Manning would be a fish outta water under C.

You're basically claiming victory for a game that went into rain delay.

[Yashahla17]

He's saluting himself. :pound:

:popcorn:

They were good post.:confused:

[Yashahla17]

You are ascribing motive and intent I don't have, and it's annoying. I'm not partial to Manning. I have been very critical of him in this site. Its my opinion that right now he's our best chance go win because Osweiler is an unknown.

I've even said some of the jump balls were under thrown. I'm just not convinced Brock can handle the 4th quarter situations.

I don't think Manning is a top 5 qb anymore. I just think he needs to play like a top 10-13 qb for us to have a shot to win the SB. I don't know for sure if he can. It could go either way

Understandable. I don't see him as top 20 though. We haven't been able to win with him playing top 2 so I'm positive he won't do it at 20. But like a few said this is what we'll have to deal with unless he's injured.

[MOtorboat]

They were good post.:confused:

Spectacular, even.

[Bosco]

Iirc your stance was that we were stupid for hoping to see more FB because that's just not how the NFL works anymore That was part of the reasoning, but not all of it.


I also seem to remember you making semantics arguments about what actually constitutes a FB, You're probably referring to my point out that Baltimore used their FB more on the line or in a flood alignment rather than in the backfield like a traditional fullback. There wasn't any dispute about his position designation (and as the Jimmy Graham situation determined, you are what your position designation is regardless of use or alignment).


nowhere did you predict that they couldn't use a FB because Manning would be a fish outta water under C. There's a few problems here.

1) You can use a fullback in the shotgun (Green Bay does it with Kuhn, either in tandem with their running back or as the lone back) and the pistol (San Francisco does this often).

2) Manning spent most of the Baltimore game and a good chunk of the Chiefs game under center. We used the fullback only a handful of times in each game.

Clearly, that's not the reason for the fullback being jettisoned.


You're basically claiming victory for a game that went into rain delay. Actually, I probably wouldn't have bothered with this that much except for your pompus, douchebag attitude when the discussion came up before, so I'm enjoying pointing out me being right and you being wrong...again.

[TXBRONC]

I said the Broncos wouldn't use a fullback with the frequency people were expecting. We're now about to be 5 weeks into the season and have only seen a handful of plays with a FB and we just released the only fullback on the roster. I couldn't have been more right on that.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm sure we'll carry a fullback on the roster, I just imagine he will be a minor role player as is the league wide norm.


No one said we would be using a fullback with great frequency.

[Simple Jaded]

GB and SF don't run Kubiak's system any more than Denver is running his system, which is why they dumped their only FB.

So again, you're tooting your horn for no reason.

Which is a level of pompous and douchy all its own.

[TXBRONC]

GB and SF don't run Kubiak's system any more than Denver is running his system, which is why they dumped their only FB.

So again, you're tooting your horn for no reason.

Which is a level of pompous and douchy all its own.

Casey was released for more than one reason. Also no one that I know of thought that Denver would use a fullback anywhere near 50%. So anyone stating that Denver would use a fullback with great frequency was/is stating the obvious.