Good and Bad: Week 4

[CrazyHorse]

Good:

We finally have a running game.


Bad:

Manning making bad decisions and worse throws.

[wayninja]

6 TD's to 5 INTs. That's a problem.

[BroncoWave]

Hey, you stole my thread dik! :lol:

Anyway,

Good:

Pass rush: Everyone showed up in that area today. They were harassing Bridgewater all day. And speaking of Bridgewater, you have to give him credit for how well he played in spite of that. He's is gonna be a good one IMO.

Hillman: Made some big runs today, I think he is clearly our better back now and should be the starter.

DT: Was a beast today. Catching everything thrown his way.

McManus: Clutch again today, he might be a top 5 kicker in the NFL at this point.

Ward: Was making plays all over the field today, fun to watch.

Bad:

Manning: I think it's official now. We are winning in spite of Manning, not because of him. This kinda feels like a house of cards about to tumble down, but I guess we will see.

Talib: Bad day at the office for him today. Was getting burnt left and right. He's been great all season though, so I will give him a pass today.

Anderson: Last year must have been a fluke or something. The guy is not good. Just can't find the holes at all.

Latimer: This is probably petty of me since he only had one play, but I'm putting him here anyway with the one play being a hold lol.


That's about all I have for this one. This was a very shaky game for us and I have no idea how we are going to keep winning playing this way, but I will take it while it lasts.

[Joel]

Good:

We finally have a running game.

Bad:

Manning making bad decisions and worse throws.

That's about it, and the good underscores the bad: Manning finally has decent protection AND run support, but is still making bad throws, and it nearly cost us a home game against an average (at best) team despite everyone else playing well. I'm hoping it's either 1) he doesn't trust his protection yet because it was so consistently awful so long and/or 2) he just had an off day. He was awful the first month-and-a-half of 2012 also, and @NE in 2013, but lights out before and after those aberrations. If next week's no better though, that will start looking less like an anomaly and more like a trend.

[Joel]

Anderson: Last year must have been a fluke or something. The guy is not good. Just can't find the holes at all.

Go back to John Lynch speculating Anderson's gotten spooked because of all the defenders piling on him at the handoff for so long: That's been SOP in Denver since not long after Lynch retired. Anderson's probably just the latest victim of being forced to just put his head down and dive for as small a loss as possible far too long. I still think it's what eventualy turned Moreno from the "fragile tentative" RB everyone derided his first few seasons to the downright MEAN runner he was in 2013: He was mad as Hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.

Now that the line's finally opened holes with at least SOME consistency, that depressing injury-riddled pattern may change for SOMEONE.

[ShaneFalco]

- the bad

- Andrew caldwell returning kickoffs to the 18 constantly.

[TXBRONC]

Hey, you stole my thread dik! :lol:

Anyway,

Good:

Pass rush: Everyone showed up in that area today. They were harassing Bridgewater all day. And speaking of Bridgewater, you have to give him credit for how well he played in spite of that. He's is gonna be a good one IMO.

Hillman: Made some big runs today, I think he is clearly our better back now and should be the starter.

DT: Was a beast today. Catching everything thrown his way.

McManus: Clutch again today, he might be a top 5 kicker in the NFL at this point.

Ward: Was making plays all over the field today, fun to watch.

Bad:

Manning: I think it's official now. We are winning in spite of Manning, not because of him. This kinda feels like a house of cards about to tumble down, but I guess we will see.

Talib: Bad day at the office for him today. Was getting burnt left and right. He's been great all season though, so I will give him a pass today.

Anderson: Last year must have been a fluke or something. The guy is not good. Just can't find the holes at all.

Latimer: This is probably petty of me since he only had one play, but I'm putting him here anyway with the one play being a hold lol.


That's about all I have for this one. This was a very shaky game for us and I have no idea how we are going to keep winning playing this way, but I will take it while it lasts.

I don't think Denver is winning in spite of Manning but he isn't playing lights out that's for sure.

Other than that I agree with you. I think Latimer did have a nice tackle on a kickoff that pinned the Vikings deep in their own territory fwiw.

I think the running game is starting to show some signs of life.

[SR]

- the bad - Andrew caldwell returning kickoffs to the 18 constantly.

He did it twice...

[SR]

I don't think Denver is winning in spite of Manning but he's playing lights out that's for sure. Other than that I agree with you. I think Latimer did have a nice tackle on a kickoff that pinned the Vikings deep in their own territory fwiw. I think the running game is starting to show some signs of life.

Manning is not playing lights out.

[Joel]

- the bad

- Andrew caldwell returning kickoffs to the 18 constantly.
Yeah, dunno what's up with that; he did a lot of work and risked a lot of injuries to/penalties by teammates for -1 yd. It's a pretty simple rule: If you catch the ball closer to the end line than the goal line, KNEEL! Easily my favorite is when a guy runs it out to the 17 and a spot holding call pushes it back to the 5: Congratulations, you just killed your teams whole drive trying for a 109½ yd TD return.

[I Eat Staples]

Anderson had a good stretch of games last year because he was the starting RB on our team when defenses still feared Manning. He's just replacement level, he's not going to create much of anything on his own and there aren't many holes for him to run through.

[ShaneFalco]

Yeah, dunno what's up with that; he did a lot of work and risked a lot of injuries to/penalties by teammates for -1 yd. It's a pretty simple rule: If you catch the ball closer to the end line than the goal line, KNEEL! Easily my favorite is when a guy runs it out to the 17 and a spot holding call pushes it back to the 5: Congratulations, you just killed your teams whole drive trying for a 109½ yd TD return.
im just wondering. has caldwell ever returned a punt for a td in his career?

[CrazyHorse]

Good:

We sacked Bridgewater 7 times.

Bad:

Had Bridgewater not been as mobile it would have been more.

[CrazyHorse]

im just wondering. has caldwell ever returned a punt for a td in his career?

No. We should trade for fast Eddie back from Chi-town. Forte while we're at it too.

[ShaneFalco]

i miss eddie.

[Slick]

Anderson had a good stretch of games last year because he was the starting RB on our team when defenses still feared Manning. He's just replacement level, he's not going to create much of anything on his own and there aren't many holes for him to run through.

Not only that but he was fresh and the rest of the league had already played half a season. He's looking average to poor at this point. If his toe is bothering him he should get it healthy. Hillman won't be able to shoulder a heavy load week after week.

[DenBronx]

Uhhh this is BroncoWaves thread each week.

Over.

[CrazyHorse]

Uhhh this is BroncoWaves thread each week.

Over.

Does it matter who starts it? Really?

[tripp]

The bad: Peyton wasn't wearing his glove.

[TXBRONC]

Manning is not playing lights out.


Urrrr.

I corrected it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Good grief you guys, get off cj's back. He didn't have a bad game. It wasn't great like we were accustomed to seeing at the end of last year, but it wasn't bad.

He finished with 3.9 ypc, and one catch for 27 yards where he looked great on a wheel route. He did not look "bad".

[BroncoWave]

Does it matter who starts it? Really?

LOL we're just messing with you dude.

[DenBronx]

Uhhh this is BroncoWaves thread each week.

Over.

Does it matter who starts it? Really?


Yes, don't jinx the momentum.

[I Eat Staples]

Good grief you guys, get off cj's back. He didn't have a bad game. It wasn't great like we were accustomed to seeing at the end of last year, but it wasn't bad.

He finished with 3.9 ypc, and one catch for 27 yards where he looked great on a wheel route. He did not look "bad".

He hasn't looked good all year. He hasn't done anything in his football career outside of ~6-8 games last season to indicate he's anything more than a replacement level back.

[DenBronx]

Good grief you guys, get off cj's back. He didn't have a bad game. It wasn't great like we were accustomed to seeing at the end of last year, but it wasn't bad.

He finished with 3.9 ypc, and one catch for 27 yards where he looked great on a wheel route. He did not look "bad".

Both Hillman and CJ showed signs of life today. I like the smash and dash combo.

[DenBronx]

Does it matter who starts it? Really?

LOL we're just messing with you dude.

Lol...just giving you crap CrazyHorse.

[CrazyHorse]

LOL we're just messing with you dude.

LOL okay. Now if I start the weekly game thread against Raiders instead of Sneakers and we lose I'll really be feeling the heat.

[DenBronx]

LOL we're just messing with you dude.

LOL okay. Now if I start the weekly game thread against Raiders instead of Sneakers and we lose I'll really be feeling the heat.

Yeah that would raise some hell. Hahaha

[TXBRONC]

He hasn't looked good all year. He hasn't done anything in his football career outside of ~6-8 games last season to indicate he's anything more than a replacement level back.

I'm pretty sure Al didn't say that C.J. has been good all year all he said was that he looked better in this game. I happen to agree with him on that point.

[BroncoWave]

I'm pretty sure Al didn't say that C.J. has been good all year all he said was that he looked better in this game. I happen to agree with him on that point.

Eh, he had the one good run when he had the hole so big he could drive a truck through it, but other than that he was not all that impressive today IMO.

[I Eat Staples]

I'm pretty sure Al didn't say that C.J. has been good all year all he said was that he looked better in this game. I happen to agree with him on that point.

I mean technically yeah, if he averaged more than 2 YPC he looked better today.

[Joel]

Good grief you guys, get off cj's back. He didn't have a bad game. It wasn't great like we were accustomed to seeing at the end of last year, but it wasn't bad.

He finished with 3.9 ypc, and one catch for 27 yards where he looked great on a wheel route. He did not look "bad".
3.9 yds/att is below average, by definition: The perennial NFL average hasn't been more than a smidge more/less than 4.2 in DECADES. I still think it's more of the same gun-shyness years of awful Broncos lines have instilled in countless RBs, but Andersons best game of the season still being below average is statistical fact. More significantly, he's not breaking tackles like last year, and today he was a beat too slow to the hole several times when that turned big first downs into 3-4 yd carries.


Both Hillman and CJ showed signs of life today. I like the smash and dash combo.

I like a line that protects their QB and opens huge running holes OUT of our backfield rather than INTO it. Makes me a lot less concerned about whom our RB is on any given Sunday.

[Slick]

Good grief you guys, get off cj's back. He didn't have a bad game. It wasn't great like we were accustomed to seeing at the end of last year, but it wasn't bad.

He finished with 3.9 ypc, and one catch for 27 yards where he looked great on a wheel route. He did not look "bad".

He was average at best. He didn't do anything in that game that any other second or third stringer in the league couldn't do. I think his toe is really bothering him. He should take a couple of games off.

[TXBRONC]

Eh, he had the one good run when he had the hole so big he could drive a truck through it, but other than that he was not all that impressive today IMO.

I just said he looked better in this game.

[Joel]

I'm pretty sure Al didn't say that C.J. has been good all year all he said was that he looked better in this game. I happen to agree with him on that point.
True as far as it goes, but if we played every SB against ourselves we'd never lose: Outperforming his OWN awful season stats is improvement, but the whole offense (with one glaring and critical exception) was better today; CJ was still below the LEAGUE average as well as below Hillmans. We can say, "yeah, but most of Hillmans yards were on a single 70+ yd TD," but those definitely count.

[BroncoWave]

I just said he looked better in this game.

Fair enough, but I think that speaks more to how poor his first 3 weeks were. Hillman runs behind the same line and he always seems to make more of an impact than CJ when he is in the game.

[TXBRONC]

Fair enough, but I think that speaks more to how poor his first 3 weeks were. Hillman runs behind the same line and he always seems to make more of an impact than CJ when he is in the game.

I agree Hillman has had a bigger impact on the offense and may be time to consider giving him the majority of carries.

[Joel]

I agree Hillman has had a bigger impact on the offense and may be time to consider giving him the majority of carries.
Well, as long we're playing our age-old game of Musical RBs, I still wanna see more Thompson (assuming he's healthy.) He can do the one-cut-and-go thing as well as Hillman, and breaks tackles and moves piles like Anderson did last year. And if Anderson's no longer getting it done anyway, well, we still need the other half of Hillmans one-two punch.

[NightTerror218]

I agree Hillman has had a bigger impact on the offense and may be time to consider giving him the majority of carries.

Hillman has looked mad running this season, chip on shoulder

[TXBRONC]

Hillman has looked mad running this season, chip on shoulder

He certainly has. I don't how many more carries per game he could handle but I think it's something worth considering.

[Joel]

Hillman has looked mad running game this season, chip on shoulder
Worked for Moreno, whose style is similar in many ways. But Hillman's also 25 lbs. lighter, despite only being an inch shorter; won't see many commando crawls from him. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Hillman was the one I saw pickup an otherwise unblocked A Gap blitzer on a play where Manning rushed an incomplete over the middle because he saw the blitzer and didn't EXPECT him to get picked up. If Hillman keeps doing stuff like while maintaining his performance so far, he'll be starting again, and Manning will stop rushing those throws.

[OrangeHoof]

Good: We're 4-0

Bad: We needed a defensive stop at the very end of three of those wins.

The Detroit game was the only one where we truly looked in control. The others we could have just as easily lost.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Good: We're 4-0

Bad: We needed a defensive stop at the very end of three of those wins.

The Detroit game was the only one where we truly looked in control. The others we could have just as easily lost.

I felt like we outplayed Minnesota all day, but Manning was determined to keep it close. His 2 picks turned into 10 points.

[CrazyHorse]

I felt like we outplayed Minnesota all day, but Manning was determined to keep it close. His 2 picks turned into 10 points.

I agree. Turnovers almost costs us this game.

[TXBRONC]

Good: We're 4-0

Bad: We needed a defensive stop at the very end of three of those wins.

The Detroit game was the only one where we truly looked in control. The others we could have just as easily lost.

I disagree Hoof. Denver outplayed the Vikings all day long but the two picks kept the Vikings in the game. The game against the Chiefs was headed to overtime so that one was up in the air. The Ravens had to score a touchdown to win Denver didn't have to have the turnover to win the game.

[Traveler]

The Good: The defense keeping us in the game and winning it for us in spite of Manning.

The Bad: Chris Harris Jr. getting burned by Mike Wallace all day. Guess everyone has a bad day, but Mike Wallace?

[SR]

im just wondering. has caldwell ever returned a punt for a td in his career?

No, but he didn't return any punts yesterday.

[SR]

Does it matter who starts it? Really?

Yes.

It's like sneakers starting the game day thread.

[SR]

The Good: The defense keeping us in the game and winning it for us in spite of Manning. The Bad: Chris Harris Jr. getting burned by Mike Wallace all day. Guess everyone has a bad day, but Mike Wallace?

Chris Harris doesn't have the speed for Mike Wallace. Talib does. All the corners got beat handily.

[Northman]

The Good: The defense keeping us in the game and winning it for us in spite of Manning.

The Bad: Chris Harris Jr. getting burned by Mike Wallace all day. Guess everyone has a bad day, but Mike Wallace?

Yea, figures the one game Wallace breaks out this year is against us.

[BroncoWave]

To be fair, Wallace is still one of the fastest receivers in football. I also think our secondary was starting to get a little full of themselves after 3 games. It's probably a good thing that they've been brought back down to earth a bit now.

[Northman]

All i know is that guy Diggs was abusing our DB's.

[EastCoastBronco]

I felt like we outplayed Minnesota all day, but Manning was determined to keep it close. His 2 picks turned into 10 points.

That second pick was on DT.
He slowed down considerably when he saw that safety coming in.
If he had continued at the same speed as he came out of the break that would have been a completion.

[EastCoastBronco]

All i know is that guy Diggs was abusing our DB's.

That game was his first start...I think I heard them say that.

[Northman]

Fair enough, but I think that speaks more to how poor his first 3 weeks were. Hillman runs behind the same line and he always seems to make more of an impact than CJ when he is in the game.

Yea, there was a moment in the second half when CJ had a huge hole to run through and would of had a nice gain but got tripped up by one defender's hand. That didnt happen last year as CJ ran harder and with more determination. You can just tell he isnt the same this year for whatever reason and now Hillman is the one running with more motivation and quicker decisive moves while running.

[EastCoastBronco]

The Good: The defense keeping us in the game and winning it for us in spite of Manning.

The Bad: Chris Harris Jr. getting burned by Mike Wallace all day. Guess everyone has a bad day, but Mike Wallace?

Both Talib and Harris looked average today.
It was a good thing that the front seven were playing "Lights Out" today.

[Northman]

I felt like we outplayed Minnesota all day, but Manning was determined to keep it close. His 2 picks turned into 10 points.

Exactly.

In the first half we could of at the very least gone up 16-3 but instead had to settle for 13-10. And then in the second have we could of expanded on the 20-10 lead but then turned it over again. It would be nice to take better advantage of the defensive stops and start taking the will out of the opposing teams instead of allowing them to hang around all the time. :tsk:

[CoachChaz]

Way too much is being made of the CJ/Hillman thing. Just like last year. Hillman had 2 good games and people were singing his praises. Then he slowed and CJ stepped up and Hillman was the red-haired ******* again. Now CJ is having a tough time with the line transition and suddenly he's dead weight...until he has a big game. Then we'll love him again.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I have been thinking that Hillman has looked better since training camp. More speed. When our line is struggling we need a guy to get to the hole (or whatever we actually have) quickly. It just seems that Hillman is doing that and CJ is not.

[EastCoastBronco]

Way too much is being made of the CJ/Hillman thing. Just like last year. Hillman had 2 good games and people were singing his praises. Then he slowed and CJ stepped up and Hillman was the red-haired ******* again. Now CJ is having a tough time with the line transition and suddenly he's dead weight...until he has a big game. Then we'll love him again.

I'm not sure it's that...
Last year (and especially in that playoff game against Indy) he was the textbook picture on heart and tackle breaking ability.
He was playing inspired ball when everyone else around him was giving up.
So far this year he's looked unsure hitting the holes and he's going down as soon as anyone lays a hand on him.
I think he showed everybody what he's capable of and I don't think it's too much to expect him to display that ability again.
If he's hurt then he needs to rest up until he can play like we know he can.

[chazoe60]

The good:
The Defense. QBs do not want to play against this team.

Running game showed some signs of life.

Special Teams has been so much better than I feared they'd be. McManus is money and colquit had a couple of punts from deep in our territory that at least made the Vikings have to start from their side of the 50.




The bad:

Manning. He was not good at all. I'm getting really sick of the fainting goat sacks. Ugh. The 2 picks were both awful.

The OL is getting better but still too much pressure considering we have a QB who simply can't move.

As good as the D was there was a couple of breakdown. The AP run was ugly. Also, I was a little concerned how many open WRs there was. I think it was more a function of our priorities being stop AP first and everything else is second. Not terribly concerned about it but it is something to watch.

[Northman]

Way too much is being made of the CJ/Hillman thing. Just like last year. Hillman had 2 good games and people were singing his praises. Then he slowed and CJ stepped up and Hillman was the red-haired ******* again. Now CJ is having a tough time with the line transition and suddenly he's dead weight...until he has a big game. Then we'll love him again.

Well, we dont really know that. I know you love CJ and all but he's had about as many good games as Hillman at this point. CJ may get it together but its hard to argue that Hillman isnt outplaying him right now. If CJ gets it together than its only going to be a good thing but right now he is stinking it up.

[Foochacho]

Hillman = 11 for 103 long of 72 take away the long and 10 for 31
Anderson = 11 for 43 long of 13 take it away and he is 10 for 30

One run doesn't change the performance we are hardly improved and neither back looks better at this point.
Hillman had a good run but everybody gets one eventually. 3 yards or less a carry is not going to move the chains or scare the opposing defense.

Adrian Peterson= 16 for 81 long of 48 take the long away and he is 15 for 33 we shut his ass down this game. He got lucky on one run that we sold out to stop a 3rd and short. He got a good block and was gone. On paper his game looks decent but he did not help move the chains. Same applies to Ronnie. Let's not act like one play cures the running game.

[Northman]

Hillman = 11 for 103 long of 72 take away the long and 10 for 31
Anderson = 11 for 43 long of 13 take it away and he is 10 for 30

One run doesn't change the performance we are hardly improved and neither back looks better at this point.
Hillman had a good run but everybody gets one eventually. 3 yards or less a carry is not going to love the chains or scare the opposing defense.

Adrian Peterson= 16 for 81 long of 48 take the long away and he is 15 for 33 we shut his ass down this game. He got lucky on one run that we sold out to stop a 3rd and short. He got a good block and was gone. On paper his game looks decent but he did not help move the chains. Same applies to Ronnie. Let's not act like one play cures the running game.

Doesnt really matter how you get those yds or scores. Luck or not both Peterson and Hillman made plays yesterday and that is what you want out of a RB.

[Foochacho]

Im ready for Osweiler for sure. A mobile qb with a good arm could help tremendously. I don't see us winning it all with this offense no matter how well the defense is playing. I hate to root for it but Manning needs a mild injury to put him out a few weeks. Otherwise they probably won't bench him. We need to see what we have in Osweiler before playoff time and before he is a free agent. If he doesn't have what it takes we can go back to manning and hope he can get it together for the playoffs.

[SR]

Im ready for Osweiler for sure. A mobile qb with a good arm could help tremendously. I don't see us winning it all with this offense no matter how well the defense is playing. I hate to root for it but Manning needs a mild injury to put him out a few weeks. Otherwise they probably won't bench him. We need to see what we have in Osweiler before playoff time and before he is a free agent. If he doesn't have what it takes we can go back to manning and hope he can get it together for the playoffs.

That's a real shit thing to say.

[Foochacho]

Doesnt really matter how you get those yds or scores. Luck or not both Peterson and Hillman made plays yesterday and that is what you want out of a RB.

Never said it didn't matter just that one play doesn't make the whole game. We need to move the chains consistently and neither one is capable right now.

[Foochacho]

That's a real shit thing to say.

Hate to say it. But I doubt he gets benched, how else do we know what we have in Osweiler? We have a great defense and have to capitalize while we can. Manning doesn't seem to improve as the year goes on. If this is all he has to offer we most likely won't make it out of the first round of playoffs.

[EastCoastBronco]

The Good:
-The Defence... obviously.
-Ronnie Hillman's big run. The blocking on that play gives me hope that the O-Line is starting to gel.
-McManus is money.

The bad:
-Those damn bubble screens to Demarius Thomas. I'm sure he's sick of them by this point as well. Every D in the league sees them coming a mile away.
-I was talking with my dad and we both noted that Manning just doesn't look the same this year. More frail or something. Like every throw is a struggle. I hope he's not
hiding something.
-CJ Anderson - Ice up, son...and hit the hole like you did last year. Break a tackle or 2.

[NightTerror218]

That's a real shit thing to say.

That is the only way Manning will ever be on bench, you can't bench him. And at this point with all games this close, he will need get a break. I am worried about his arm at end of season.

[BroncoJoe]

That is the only way Manning will ever be on bench, you can't bench him. And at this point with all games this close, he will need get a break. I am worried about his arm at end of season.

Yep - I'd rather play Brock before we "have to". Especially if it's at the end of the season or playoff time. Dude needs snaps.

[CoachChaz]

Well, we dont really know that. I know you love CJ and all but he's had about as many good games as Hillman at this point. CJ may get it together but its hard to argue that Hillman isnt outplaying him right now. If CJ gets it together than its only going to be a good thing but right now he is stinking it up.

I dont know that a personal liking for CJ has anything to do with it, but...ok. Hillman was all the rage last year as well...for 2 games. Then when Manning couldnt do anything and defenses were doing what they are doing now...CJ lit it up. Minus a long breakaway, Hillman's numbers are about the same as CJ's this year. At the end of the day, it really comes down to a combination of defenses no longer respecting Manning and the OL still trying to get it together. Hitting the hole a split second faster or breaking tackles is meaningless when there are constantly 2,3,4 defenders involved in the tackle almost immediately after the handoff. At least that's what I see.

Personally, I couldnt care less who was getting the rushing yards. I just find it interesting how quickly a player is "turned on" for ridiculous reasons.

[NightTrainLayne]

The Good: We won.

The Bad: After our 1st Quarter FG drive, Cox cable decided that I had seen enough, and promptly shit the bed ending all television and internet service in my area. After spending about 15 minutes trouble shooting and calling Cox, I was left trying to follow the game via the radio call in SiriusXM, and Twitter etc., through my phone.

Altogether a miserable way to try and follow the game, especially one like this one that was in doubt right up to the end.

[SR]

That is the only way Manning will ever be on bench, you can't bench him. And at this point with all games this close, he will need get a break. I am worried about his arm at end of season.

Good lord you guys. Would you want Von Miller to get hurt too so we know what we have in Shane Ray? What a ****** up thing to say.

[tomjonesrocks]

That second pick was on DT. He slowed down considerably when he saw that safety coming in. If he had continued at the same speed as he came out of the break that would have been a completion.

Hmm. When I rewatch this I'll take a close look at that. Didn't look like the pass had a prayer in real time in a sports bar.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Hmm. When I rewatch this I'll take a close look at that. Didn't look like the pass had a prayer in real time in a sports bar.

It looked iffy to me. He would have had to elevate about 3 feet to even have a chance, but likely would have been split in half if he did. Considering the hit he took earlier I can see why he didint.

[Northman]

I dont know that a personal liking for CJ has anything to do with it, but...ok. Hillman was all the rage last year as well...for 2 games. Then when Manning couldnt do anything and defenses were doing what they are doing now...CJ lit it up. Minus a long breakaway, Hillman's numbers are about the same as CJ's this year. At the end of the day, it really comes down to a combination of defenses no longer respecting Manning and the OL still trying to get it together. Hitting the hole a split second faster or breaking tackles is meaningless when there are constantly 2,3,4 defenders involved in the tackle almost immediately after the handoff. At least that's what I see.

Personally, I couldnt care less who was getting the rushing yards. I just find it interesting how quickly a player is "turned on" for ridiculous reasons.

I just think you are overreacting to what is being said, thats why i question your motivation. Its just a fact that CJ is not playing very well and Hillman looks to be the better back. Maybe that changes as the season goes along but for now it would be wise to ride the horse that is actually performing just like it was wise to ride CJ last year. I havent seen anyone saying we need to cut CJ or anything of that nature.

[Northman]

Im ready for Osweiler for sure. A mobile qb with a good arm could help tremendously. I don't see us winning it all with this offense no matter how well the defense is playing. I hate to root for it but Manning needs a mild injury to put him out a few weeks. Otherwise they probably won't bench him. We need to see what we have in Osweiler before playoff time and before he is a free agent. If he doesn't have what it takes we can go back to manning and hope he can get it together for the playoffs.

I wouldnt wish an injury on a player (unless i really hated them) but chances are Manning may get injured in some anyway. But, even if he doesnt i dont think Denver lets Oz walk next year as they just have to much invested in him at this point with the time put in to prepare him. They may bring some competition in next year but i would guess Oz would be the projected starter for 2016. I dont think Manning will be here anymore after this year unless he all of a sudden lights it up which i seriously doubt happens.

[Valar Morghulis]

The good - I was there.

The bad - for me, this category was nullified, for justification on my reasoning. See my answer to the good.

[Davii]

The Good:

Like the other three weeks this year, the Defense. They're phenomenal so far. The line did better than I expected with the shuffle and the different personnel, they seemed to be getting a little push at times. Something that has lacked the other games to date.

The Bad:

Manning did not play well at all. I remain confident he'll figure it out along with Dennison and Kubes learning how they can all help each other.

The Ugly:

Fans wishing Manning would get hurt. That's ridiculous. Here's a thought: Manning winning by less than ten points every week and the defense carrying him makes him terrible, old, needing an injury, etc. Tebow did it and was looked at like a hero. Give it time. If Manning keeps sucking it up you guys will probably get your wish as defenses will come at him even harder.

[NightTerror218]

Good lord you guys. Would you want Von Miller to get hurt too so we know what we have in Shane Ray? What a ****** up thing to say.

I was only stating, you can't bench Manning.

[DenBronx]

This was Chris Harris worst game of his career. Talib didnt have a stellar performance either. Clearly Wallace was too fast for Harris. If there is one knock on Chris it's his speed. I doubt he even runs a 4.7. Had he had any speed at all he would have taken that blocked field goal to the house last week. But his coverage skills are on point.

[SR]

I just think you are overreacting to what is being said, thats why i question your motivation. Its just a fact that CJ is not playing very well and Hillman looks to be the better back. Maybe that changes as the season goes along but for now it would be wise to ride the horse that is actually performing just like it was wise to ride CJ last year. I havent seen anyone saying we need to cut CJ or anything of that nature.

I don't think he has any "motivation" and his observation of how fickle people are is spot on.

[DenBronx]

Also, I would never wish an injury on Manning so we can see what we have in our backup. That's just pure stupidity. Right now, Manning still gives us the best chance to win. Yeah he has looked awful this year at times but he's also showing flashes of brilliance. Those 2 INTs yesterday were unexplainable but I think Manning will find a way to get better over these next few games. Maybe it's the glove. Dont think he wore it yesterday.

[BroncoWave]

I don't think he has any "motivation" and his observation of how fickle people are is spot on.

FWIW, I've always been high on Hillman and have pretty much always preferred him to CJ. I think people root harder for CJ to succeed with him being undrafted, but I've always seen Hillman as the more talented back since they have both been here.

[Joel]

I dont know that a personal liking for CJ has anything to do with it, but...ok. Hillman was all the rage last year as well...for 2 games. Then when Manning couldnt do anything and defenses were doing what they are doing now...CJ lit it up. Minus a long breakaway, Hillman's numbers are about the same as CJ's this year. At the end of the day, it really comes down to a combination of defenses no longer respecting Manning and the OL still trying to get it together. Hitting the hole a split second faster or breaking tackles is meaningless when there are constantly 2,3,4 defenders involved in the tackle almost immediately after the handoff. At least that's what I see.

Personally, I couldnt care less who was getting the rushing yards. I just find it interesting how quickly a player is "turned on" for ridiculous reasons.
It was mildly interesting 2-3 years ago; now it's just sad: The line's sucked FOREVER, but it's ALWAYS the "fragile" "hesitant" starting RBs fault, so all our problems will be over if we just bench the bum and start the current flavor of the week—next season, HE'S the bum. Work yourself into a lather, rinse, repeat. We've been doing it so long Moreno and Hillman BOTH went through the whole cycle until they became saviors again by virtue of little more than attrition. Frankly, it's a little embarrassing at this point; Broncos fans are supposed to be smarter (or at least more observant) than that.

At some point one would expect people to suspect there MAY be a connection between constant injuries to the starting RB—WHOEVER that is this week—and all of them going from cut-and-go tackle-smashers to backfield Fred Astaires who go nowhere fast. When there are 2-3 tacklers on a guy at the snap on MOST snaps, he tends to get a little jumpy, whether he's a journeyman RB or first ballot HoF QB. People need to stop analysing real football as if it were fantasy football; linemen actually MATTER (a lot) in the real thing.

[TXBRONC]

Way too much is being made of the CJ/Hillman thing. Just like last year. Hillman had 2 good games and people were singing his praises. Then he slowed and CJ stepped up and Hillman was the red-haired ******* again. Now CJ is having a tough time with the line transition and suddenly he's dead weight...until he has a big game. Then we'll love him again.

No CJ isn't dead weight but Hillman has played better than him. It's up to the coaching staff what to do with C.J. He sprained his toe in week one and maybe that's part of the reason he's struggling.

[Northman]

I don't think he has any "motivation" and his observation of how fickle people are is spot on.

Well apparently he is right there with the rest of us i guess because before CJ took over he was doing the same thing regarding Hillman. lol

[Ravage!!!]

The entire offense is bad. Period.

THE ONLY good thing about the offense, is the talent we have at WR. Other than that, there isn't a single thing that is good. THe complete lack of a decent slot and decent TE, kills the offense to the point of being putrid.

The Good.

The Defense. All of it.

Magnus. I can't believe people were crying for whomever it was that we dropped to keep him.

[TXBRONC]

Something that I have yet to see mentioned is Shane Ray getting his first sack. Hopefully there are more to come.

[BroncoWave]

Something that I have yet to see mentioned is Shane Ray getting his first sack. Hopefully there are a lot more to come.

You know your defense is stacked when your stud first round LB gets a sack and hardly anyone even notices. And on top of that we get Wolfe back this week? Talk about an embarrassment of riches.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The good :

Blocking Tight Ends
Virgil and Owen created the opening on the edge for Hillman to run through on his 75 yard TD. This shocked me because I was told it didn't matter if they could do that.

Flame away gentlemen! ! :laugh:

[BroncoWave]

The entire offense is bad. Period.

THE ONLY good thing about the offense, is the talent we have at WR. Other than that, there isn't a single thing that is good. THe complete lack of a decent slot and decent TE, kills the offense to the point of being putrid.

The Good.

The Defense. All of it.

Magnus. I can't believe people were crying for whomever it was that we dropped to keep him.

And even at WR it falls off a cliff after the first two guys. Fowler has been promising, but for the most part the WR corps past DT/Sanders has been a dumpster fire.

[Ravage!!!]

And even at WR it falls off a cliff after the first two guys. Fowler has been promising, but for the most part the WR corps past DT/Sanders has been a dumpster fire.

Exactly. The only good thing about the offense is DT and Sanders. It stops right with those two names.

[TXBRONC]

You know your defense is stacked when your stud first round LB gets a sack and hardly anyone even notices. And on top of that we get Wolfe back this week? Talk about an embarrassment of riches.

No doubt it's an embarrassment of riches.

[SR]

Well apparently he is right there with the rest of us i guess because before CJ took over he was doing the same thing regarding Hillman. lol

Fans are so unwilling to just wait and see. Everyone is so quick to jump ship on someone "just because". It's almost like it's completely irrational for some people to have patience with anything. Denver is 4-0 despite the lack of a consistent run game and/or consistent play from any of the backs. But god forbid someone doesn't abandon all hope that CJ can get with the program. Or, god forbid someone doesn't start drooling over Hillman.

And you're the voice of reason? C'mon.

[Joel]

Well apparently he is right there with the rest of us i guess because before CJ took over he was doing the same thing regarding Hillman. lol
For the record, I wanted Thompson then and still do; 5'11" RBs have a good track record in Kubiaks offense (see: Davis, Terrell; Portis, Clinton; Gary, Olandis.) :tongue: In all seriousness, he's got about 20 lbs. on Davis and Portis, but is built a lot like Gary (who was 7 lbs. lighter) and Arian Foster (who's only an inch taller and 7 lbs. heavier) More relevantly, Thompson had the teams highest rushing average last year (i.e. 5.0, better than Anderson AND Hillman) and picked up 3 TDs behind that abysmal line. I still like how he echoed Jim Browns quote about wanting to make OTHER people fear contact.

That said, I don't know if he's fully healthy after last weeks injury, nor how well he knows the complex new playbook, and Hillman's been great at picking up blitzes. Plus, again, until the line consistently gets push and prevents penetration at the handoff (both of which were much improved Sunday) it doesn't MATTER who has the misfortune of being our beat up hesitant starter each week. Though it doesn't sound like Thompson's the type to get skittish when he sees a wave of tacklers heading for him in his own backfield; he'll pop someone in the mouth.

[NightTerror218]

Fans are so unwilling to just wait and see. Everyone is so quick to jump ship on someone "just because". It's almost like it's completely irrational for some people to have patience with anything. Denver is 4-0 despite the lack of a consistent run game and/or consistent play from any of the backs. But god forbid someone doesn't abandon all hope that CJ can get with the program. Or, god forbid someone doesn't start drooling over Hillman.

And you're the voice of reason? C'mon.

I will wait and see until after game 6, like I said many moons ago before OL gets it together, before I put up and billboards

[TXBRONC]

For the record, I wanted Thompson then and still do; 5'11" RBs have a good track record in Kubiaks offense (see: Davis, Terrell; Portis, Clinton; Gary, Olandis.) :tongue: In all seriousness, he's got about 20 lbs. on Davis and Portis, but is built a lot like Gary (who was 7 lbs. lighter) and Arian Foster (who's only an inch taller and 7 lbs. heavier) More relevantly, Thompson had the teams highest rushing average last year (i.e. 5.0, better than Anderson AND Hillman) and picked up 3 TDs behind that abysmal line. I still like how he echoed Jim Browns quote about wanting to make OTHER people fear contact.

That said, I don't know if he's fully healthy after last weeks injury, nor how well he knows the complex new playbook, and Hillman's been great at picking up blitzes. Plus, again, until the line consistently gets push and prevents penetration at the handoff (both of which were much improved Sunday) it doesn't MATTER who has the misfortune of being our beat up hesitant starter each week. Though it doesn't sound like Thompson's the type to get skittish when he sees a wave of tacklers heading for him in his own backfield; he'll pop someone in the mouth.

First of all Davis, Portis, Gary and Anderson didn't run the ball in Kubiak's offense it was Mike Shanahan's offense. One last thing Mike Anderson was 6'0" tall.

[DenBronx]

Something that I have yet to see mentioned is Shane Ray getting his first sack. Hopefully there are a lot more to come.

He did it with limited playing time too. Our backups are pretty solid on defense.

[DenBronx]

The good :

Blocking Tight Ends
Virgil and Owen created the opening on the edge for Hillman to run through on his 75 yard TD. This shocked me because I was told it didn't matter if they could do that.

Flame away gentlemen! ! :laugh:

I believe that was Daniels. He ended up having a decent game I guess.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I believe that was Daniels. He ended up having a decent game I guess.

I watched it several times. Daniels sealed the outside DB and Green was on the outside shoulder of Harris and blocked some else. They created a lane for him to run through.

[Joel]

First of all Davis, Portis, Gary and Anderson didn't run the ball in Kubiak's offense it was Mike Shanahan's offense. Being 5'11" has nothing to do with be successful in this style of offense. One last thing Mike Anderson was 6'0" tall.
Right, I keep forgetting offensive COORDINATORS are spectators in offensive gameplans and playcalling; explains why Kubiaks Texans, Ravens and new Broncos offenses are so radically different from the ones he auditted in the mid-nineties. ;) And yes, I realize the fact he had lots of great RBs above the average RB height has far more to do with their ability and his system than their height, hence the smiley and the next sentence beginning with the contrasting "in all seriousness."

It DOES seem like the CURRENT BRONCOS offense (if that's more palatable) prefers taller RBs: Even the mediocre Bells were 6' (Mike) and 5'11" (Tater, and maybe that WAS too tall for a mere 190 lbs; no wonder he got thrown around like a rag doll.) That's probably more an artifact than anything else though. All that said, Mike Anderson was solid and reliable, though I wouldn't put him in the same class as the others (maybe Gary.) We don't need Terrell Davis performance; Andersons unspectacular but consistent adequacy would be fine, especially with equally reliable receiving and pass blocking.

[BroncoJoe]

I watched it several times. Daniels sealed the outside DB and Green was on the outside shoulder of Harris and blocked some else. They created a lane for him to run through.

Anyone think JT would have sustained that block? Anyone? Bueller?

[Joel]

I watched it several times. Daniels sealed the outside DB and Green was on the outside shoulder of Harris and blocked some else. They created a lane for him to run through.
Yeah, but imagine how much better Julius Thomas would've made both blocks. It would have to be BOTH, because he's paid as much Green and Daniels COMBINED. And gets his first 2015 snap in 2-3 weeks.

[TXBRONC]

Right, I keep forgetting offensive COORDINATORS are spectators in offensive gameplans and playcalling; explains why Kubiaks Texans, Ravens and new Broncos offenses are so radically different from the ones he auditted in the mid-nineties. ;) And yes, I realize the fact he had lots of great RBs above the average RB height has far more to do with their ability and his system than their height, hence the smiley and the next sentence beginning with the contrasting "in all seriousness."

It DOES seem like the CURRENT BRONCOS offense (if that's more palatable) prefers taller RBs: Even the mediocre Bells were 6' (Mike) and 5'11" (Tater, and maybe that WAS too tall for a mere 190 lbs; no wonder he got thrown around like a rag doll.) That's probably more an artifact than anything else though. All that said, Mike Anderson was solid and reliable, though I wouldn't put him in the same class as the others (maybe Gary.) We don't need Terrell Davis performance; Andersons unspectacular but consistent adequacy would be fine, especially with equally reliable receiving and pass blocking.

There is a different between the types of systems you use on offense and defense and game planning. Maybe you should learn the difference between the two before you speak.

[Joel]

There is a different between the types of systems you use on offense and defense and game planning. Maybe you should learn the difference between the two before you speak.
Right, that's why I said, "and" and stated both, rather than using either related but distinct thing to mean BOTH.


Yep and you do it all the time.
On the contrary, my biggest flaw is obsessively overthinking and trying to type it all out in a way that's thorough and comprehensible for everyone, without them needing to be inside my head.

Doesn't work when people just skim for something to criticize though; ends up with people angrily denying even posts that agree with and corroborate theirs. Trying to "reason" with that is pointlessly futile.

[tomjonesrocks]

You'd be surprised. He has a cult following on here.

Hmm. I haven't seen evidence of that.

I do think the walls of text and unusual capitalizations are an inoffensive novelty/nuisance for some while making others want to start house fires and punch baby pandas.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Hmm. I haven't seen evidence of that.

I do think the walls of text and unusual capitalizations are an inoffensive novelty/nuisance for some while making others want to start house fires and punch baby pandas.

:laugh:

[Dzone]

Hmm. I haven't seen evidence of that.

I do think the walls of text and unusual capitalizations are an inoffensive novelty/nuisance for some while making others want to start house fires and punch baby pandas.

lol...I am assuming people read his posts because a lot of people reply to them. It seems to be harmless banter, but I dont partake, theres only so much time in a day if you know what I mean

[EastCoastBronco]

I like Joel's posts.
He likes to write, it's obvious.
There are so few people these days that actually take the time to think about what they want to say and then deliberately use more than 140 goddamn characters to express it.
Not saying that an opinion can't be expressed in 140 characters or less.
Just saying that I appreciate it when someone takes the time to descriptively express their thoughts.
Keep it up, Joel.

[BroncoWave]

I like Joel's posts.
He likes to write, it's obvious.
There are so few people these days that actually take the time to think about what they want to say and then deliberately use more than 140 goddamn characters to express it.
Not saying that an opinion can't be expressed in 140 characters or less.
Just saying that I appreciate when someone takes the time to descriptively express their thoughts.
Keep it up, Joel.

There is a fine line between descriptively expressing your thoughts and being verbose.

[Northman]

I like Joel's posts.
He likes to write, it's obvious.
There are so few people these days that actually take the time to think about what they want to say and then deliberately use more than 140 goddamn characters to express it.
Not saying that an opinion can't be expressed in 140 characters or less.
Just saying that I appreciate when someone takes the time to descriptively express their thoughts.
Keep it up, Joel.

Yea, dont really have to agree with his stance or read it all but cant really say he doesnt take the time to post out his thoughts. Nothing wrong with that.

[EastCoastBronco]

There is a fine line between descriptively expressing your thoughts and being verbose.

Like I said, he likes to write.
If you can't use a forum as an outlet for that then I'm not sure what the point is.

[Davii]

There is a fine line between descriptively expressing your thoughts and being verbose.

So what. I don't get all the Joel griping, or griping about anyone. It's like people have a hard time either spinning the scroll wheel or sliding their thumb down the screen. I mean, is Joel typing too much really the worst part of anyone's day? If it is, my God, you all live wonderful lives.

[GEM]

Joel isn't the topic here....until some make him the topic. Put the guy on ignore and move on. FFS....this is the BRONCOS Message Board....stop making it the Joel Message Board.

[EastCoastBronco]

Joel isn't the topic here....until some make him the topic. Put the guy on ignore and move on. FFS....this is the BRONCOS Message Board....stop making it the Joel Message Board.

What does FFS mean?
EFSSL...;-)

[Northman]

What does FFS mean?


Fantasy Football Slut.

[I Eat Staples]

Joel isn't the topic here....until some make him the topic. Put the guy on ignore and move on. FFS....this is the BRONCOS Message Board....stop making it the Joel Message Board.

Joel is like Tebow. The people who dislike him just can't stop talking about him, even when something has nothing to do with him.

[TXBRONC]

Fantasy Football Slut.

That's got to be it.

[DenBronx]

Joel isn't the topic here....until some make him the topic. Put the guy on ignore and move on. FFS....this is the BRONCOS Message Board....stop making it the Joel Message Board.

What does FFS mean?
EFSSL...;-)


Fish Fry Sundays???

I don't know....maybe GEM can help out with this one. I'm stumped.