With Bears trading players away....

[Ravage!!!]

We might as well be the ones that make the trade for Matt Forte while they are trying to acquire picks for the draft. The Bears aren't going anywhere, and with a Forte in the lineup, I would say our Running game improved by about 200%....no matter the OL problems.

Let me have the wish and want...damnit. :elefant:

[CrazyHorse]

Forte turns 30 this year and would cost too much. I'd rather pick up Ray Rice for dirt cheap.

[MOtorboat]

Forte is the better receiving option.

[dogfish]

more realistic scenario, IMO; prying vernon davis out of san francisco. . .

[MOtorboat]

more realistic scenario, IMO; prying vernon davis out of san francisco. . .

Make it happen.

[CrazyHorse]

Make it happen.

Why? We have Virgil Green.

[MOtorboat]

Why? We have Virgil Green.

I prefer difference makers at skill positions.

[Joel]

We might as well be the ones that make the trade for Matt Forte while they are trying to acquire picks for the draft. The Bears aren't going anywhere, and with a Forte in the lineup, I would say our Running game improved by about 200%....no matter the OL problems.
Let me have the wish and want...damnit. :elefant:
Even foregoing the literal interpretation Forte would average 6.6 yds/att (since we averaged <2.2 against a below average run D Sunday, our worst showing yet, against the weakest run D we've faced) NOTHING can or will significantly improve our run game except BLOCKING, and nothing can or will improve that but TIME. We've got a freakin' ALL PRO and BROUGHT IN ANOTHER and even THEY look like crap: How's Forte gonna change that, or singlehandedly compensate for it? Same way Manning's singlehandedly won us SBs compensating for our awful lines passing failures?

I don't know who's out there or what his value is, but would much rather deal Latimers huge talent and high draft position to an unsuspecting sucker for a solid OT. And probably STILL sit him so the ones we've got have time to gel, but at least there'd be more than JUST Schofield if anything happens to Sambrailo or Ryan Harris (who has an injury history; that's part of why he left Denver in the first place.)

[ShaneFalco]

why trade for forte when steven jackson is still looking for a team?

[Dapper Dan]

What's wrong with Knowshon?

[Joel]

What's wrong with Knowshon?
According to him (via his agent via Rotoworld) the knee he tore an ACL in last year "isn't right" so he's not playing this year. Whether that's by choice or because no one's returning his calls I don't know.

[Dapper Dan]

According to him (via his agent via Rotoworld) the knee he tore an ACL in last year "isn't right" so he's not playing this year. Whether that's by choice or because no one's returning his calls I don't know.

Can we just stick a needle in it like Coach Kilmer did with Lance Harbor and that runningback?

[TXBRONC]

I prefer difference makers at skill positions.

Good point but I think it would take to long for Davis to get up to speed.

[OrangeHoof]

I doubt we have the cap room to go after Forte but the whole conversation smacks of the hockey team that tries to upgrade the goalie because the defensemen can't stop anyone.

[Davii]

why trade for forte when steven jackson is still looking for a team?

For the same reason Steven Jackson is still looking for a team. This is not a bid for Forte as I don't think the RBs are our main issue with the run game, rather, I don't think Jackson brings much to the table anymore.

[SR]

Forte is the better receiving option.

Forte has a lot of miles on him. He caught over 100 balls last year. He's been a total workhorse for that team since he's been with the team. I'm not so sure I would want that at this point. Having said that, IF it did happen, I would not be upset.

[TXBRONC]

For the same reason Steven Jackson is still looking for a team. This is not a bid for Forte as I don't think the RBs are our main issue with the run game, rather, I don't think Jackson brings much to the table anymore.

Agreed, Jackson is used up.

[pulse]

Forte isn't going to solve our problems running the ball. He's not Barry Sanders. CJ Anderson will have success when we stop sucking at run blocking. When that happens, everyone will forget we were only averaging 2.6 yards per carry the first three games.

[TXBRONC]

Well since were talking about trading with Chicago why not Martellus Bennett? He's still young and last season he had 90 catches for 916 yards and six touchdowns.

[SR]

Forte isn't going to solve our problems running the ball. He's not Barry Sanders. CJ Anderson will have success when we stop sucking at run blocking. When that happens, everyone will forget we were only averaging 2.6 yards per carry the first three games.

I also think they need to start doing some more off-tackle running and some more stretch plays to get the run game going. They're mostly just running up the gut and not going anywhere. Stretch plays and off tackle runs with a pulling guard opens more holes.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'd like to have Bennett.

[BroncoJoe]

Let's get Cutler back!!!!

:couch:

[chazoe60]

Let's get Cutler back!!!!

:couch:

That idea is maybe a 6 out of 10 whereas not doing that is a 10 out of 10.

[DenBronx]

Make it happen.

Why? We have Virgil Green.


Because it's Virgil Green is why.

[DenBronx]

more realistic scenario, IMO; prying vernon davis out of san francisco. . .


I was thinking about that yesterday. Green or Daniels would probably have to be in on the trade.

But yeah, Davis is a playmaker and I think he is rotting away in SF.

[DenBronx]

Isnt Eddie Royal on the Bears? Slot guy for us? I always liked Royal.

[Ravage!!!]

Isnt Eddie Royal on the Bears? Slot guy for us? I always liked Royal.

Great suggestion.

Yes.. and would fit fantastic here as a slot guy. That would be a HUGE upgrade to this offense, as well as Bennett. I dont care if Forte is turning 30,he's 10 times the RB than our roster has right now, so it would definitely be giant. Won't happen, but I would jump up and down.

[pulse]

I don't think Chicago is going to let any of their receivers go. Though they may shed more players to gain more picks for the 2016 draft, I fully expect they're drafting a top QB with their first pick and they're going to want receivers and offensive lineman to support that QB. That's also why I don't see them shedding Forte. He's a good receiving RB.

[VonDoom]

I don't think Chicago is going to let any of their receivers go. Though they may shed more players to gain more picks for the 2016 draft, I fully expect they're drafting a top QB with their first pick and they're going to want receivers and offensive lineman to support that QB. That's also why I don't see them shedding Forte. He's a good receiving RB.

The Bears beat reported for ESPN throws out the idea that they might be open to trading Alshon Jeffrey, since he, like Forte, is a FA after this year.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4700153/with-jared-allen-trade-complete-bears-should-listen-to-offers-for-matt-forte-and-alshon-jeffery

I doubt it will happen, but I've seen stranger things.

As for Forte, I'm beginning to think he'd be an upgrade, though it seems like a knee jerk reaction to replace the RB when the line is the bigger issue. It's fun to speculate on Bennett, but we spent on Daniels already and we have Green. I really don't see why Green can't be more integrated into this offense, but he's been used nearly as sparingly this year so far as he was last year, and this is supposedly a TE favorable offense.

[Traveler]

As for Forte, I'm beginning to think he'd be an upgrade, though it seems like a knee jerk reaction to replace the RB when the line is the bigger issue. It's fun to speculate on Bennett, but we spent on Daniels already and we have Green. I really don't see why Green can't be more integrated into this offense, but he's been used nearly as sparingly this year so far as he was last year, and this is supposedly a TE favorable offense.

Add the fact that we also have TE Jeff Heuerman, currently on IR. Don't see a move being made for a TE.

As to the Bears supposed "fire sale," speculation on Forte is just that. Would I like to see it happen? Definitely! Having said that, I'm guessing there might still be lingering animosity between Elway and Fox to even believe in any trade talks between the two franchises.

[Davii]

Add the fact that we also have TE Jeff Heuerman, currently on IR. Don't see a move being made for a TE.

As to the Bears supposed "fire sale," speculation on Forte is just that. Would I like to see it happen? Definitely! Having said that, I'm guessing there might still be lingering animosity between Elway and Fox to even believe in any trade talks between the two franchises.

Bears GM is Ryan Pace, I don't believe Fox has control over personnel matters beyond the field.

[Joel]

Isnt Eddie Royal on the Bears? Slot guy for us? I always liked Royal.
Pfft, dude was a 2nd round Broncos pick: BUST! :tongue:

[VonDoom]

Pfft, dude was a 2nd round Broncos pick: BUST! :tongue:

Nah, that's only since Elway got here ;)

[TXBRONC]

I'd like to have Bennett.

To me it seems like a better option since talking about positions that are struggling.

[Joel]

Nah, that's only since Elway got here ;)
Would that were so; have to go back to the millennium to find even 2 straight Broncos 2nd rounders who weren't busts. Warning: The following list of 2nd round picks is not for the weak of heart.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/draft.htm

[FanInAZ]

Let's get Cutler back!!!!

:couch:

You're the guy that yells, "fire," in a crowded theater.

[Dapper Dan]

You're the guy that yells, "fire," in a crowded theater.

I'd rather be in a fire in a crowded theater than have Jay Cutler in Denver.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'd rather be in a fire in a crowded theater than have Jay Cutler in Denver.

Many Chicago fans have similar sentiments.

[Ravage!!!]

Many Chicago fans have similar sentiments.

Not if they watched that game against Seattle, they don't.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Not if they watched that game against Seattle, they don't.

Hard to say.....I know half the fans in Chicago are tired of his inconsistency and crappy mechanics.

[FanInAZ]

Hard to say.....I know half the fans in Chicago are tired of his inconsistency and crappy mechanics.

Nevertheless, its obvious that they can do a lot worse than Cutler.

[Northman]

Indeed. No matter what Culter's faults are he is clearly better than the guys behind him.

[Dapper Dan]

Indeed. No matter what Culter's faults are he is clearly better than the guys behind him.

You're right. It could always be worse. I'm single, but it would be a hell of a lot worse if I lost my right arm.

[Northman]

You're right. It could always be worse. I'm single, but it would be a hell of a lot worse if I lost my right arm.

I fear for any pets you may have. lol

[FanInAZ]

Cutler is probably still a top 10 QB, all be it at the bottom.

[Dapper Dan]

I fear for any pets you may have. lol

My Palmeranian is doing just fine.

[Dapper Dan]

Cutler is probably still a top 10 QB, all be it at the bottom.

Idk bruh.

Eli
Peyton
Brees
Flacco
Dalton
Brady
Luck
Wilson
Roethlisberger
Stafford
Rodgers

Possibly Newton, Carr, Romo, Bradford, Foles, Rivers, Palmer, Mariota

[Northman]

My Palmeranian is doing just fine.

Bwhwhahahahaaa

[Northman]

Idk bruh.

Eli
Peyton
Brees
Flacco
Dalton
Brady
Luck
Wilson
Roethlisberger
Stafford
Rodgers

Possibly Newton, Carr, Romo, Bradford, Foles, Rivers, Palmer, Mariota


Yea, he's not top 10. Out of that list i would take him over Newton, Bradford, Foles, and Mariota (only because he is a rookie).

[FanInAZ]

Idk bruh.

Eli
Peyton
Brees
Flacco
Dalton
Brady
Luck
Wilson
Roethlisberger
Stafford
Rodgers

Possibly Newton, Carr, Romo, Bradford, Foles, Rivers, Palmer, Mariota

Red = Worse then Cutler
Yellow = About equal to Cutler
Blue = Give them at least 3 years before making a definitive assessment.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Nevertheless, its obvious that they can do a lot worse than Cutler.

I agree, what I said was a tongue in cheek comment.

Cutler is probably still a top 10 QB, all be it at the bottom.
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say top 16

[Joel]

The difference between fire in a theater and Cutler in a stadium? Cutler goes out sooner. ;)

[Ravage!!!]

Red = Worse then Cutler
Yellow = About equal to Cutler
Blue = Give them at least 3 years before making a definitive assessment.

Seriously... you thnk Roth is down at the level of Cutler? Roth is golden, and a stud at the QB position. I don't know what kind of beef you have with the dude other than the accusations off-field (and that's your perogative), but as an NFL QB... Roth is a top QB in the NFL.

[Ravage!!!]

Hard to say.....I know half the fans in Chicago are tired of his inconsistency and crappy mechanics.

Not as tired they would be if they had to deal with what they had to watch last Sunday.

[FanInAZ]

Seriously... you thnk Roth is down at the level of Cutler? Roth is golden, and a stud at the QB position. I don't know what kind of beef you have with the dude other than the accusations off-field (and that's your perogative), but as an NFL QB... Roth is a top QB in the NFL.

Roth won SB with elite RBs & Ds.

[Ravage!!!]

Roth won SB with elite RBs & Ds.

I'm talking about his play. Brady won early Super Bowls due to great defense and coaching (not to mention those coaches taping the other teams)..but that doesn't mean he's not an elite QB now. Roth is an elite QB, and all you have to do is watch him play to see it. It's pretty obvious.

[Northman]

Roth won SB with elite RBs & Ds.

Technically so did Elway.

[FanInAZ]

Seriously... you thnk Roth is down at the level of Cutler? Roth is golden, and a stud at the QB position. I don't know what kind of beef you have with the dude other than the accusations off-field (and that's your perogative), but as an NFL QB... Roth is a top QB in the NFL.

By the way, I know that Roth was a victim of a pair of gold diggers.

[Ravage!!!]

By the way, I know that Roth was a victim of a pair of gold diggers.

Possibly. I'm certainly not one to acknowledge the addage that where there is smoke, there is fire. So I'm not giving him a 'bye' on that, but his play on the field is top notch.

[FanInAZ]

Technically so did Elway.

True, but compare what Elway & Roth did/has done without a supporting cast.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Not as tired they would be if they had to deal with what they had to watch last Sunday.

Well, there is that.

:laugh:

But no one has suggested Clausen is starting material.

[Ravage!!!]

True, but compare what Elway & Roth did/has done without a supporting cast.

You are changing the discussion. North didn't say that Roth was better than Elway.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Big Ben is an elite qb.

[Northman]

True, but compare what Elway & Roth did/has done without a supporting cast.

Elway was one of a kind, i think he did more than most current QB's ever did when it came to making a SB with subpar talent behind him. But i think Big Ben is a very very good QB and is highly underrated. Maybe its because i see so many Ravens/Steelers games but if you would of asked me to rewind back to 2004 and had Denver had a chance to take him i would be all over it. Dude is a beast and has made many plays when his surrounding cast hasnt been as top notch as other times. Honestly i dont think Cutler is in the same hemisphere as Ben. Not even close for me.

[Ravage!!!]

Elway was one of a kind, i think he did more than most current QB's ever did when it came to making a SB with subpar talent behind him. But i think Big Ben is a very very good QB and is highly underrated. Maybe its because i see so many Ravens/Steelers games but if you would of asked me to rewind back to 2004 and had Denver had a chance to take him i would be all over it. Dude is a beast and has made many plays when his surrounding cast hasnt been as top notch as other times. Honestly i dont think Cutler is in the same hemisphere as Ben. Not even close for me.

I completely agree.

Man.. if we could go back to 2011 I'd LOOOOOVE to have Denver take Roth (although would have to move up to do it). That would have been awesome.

[FanInAZ]

You are changing the discussion. North didn't say that Roth was better than Elway.

I know, he was just point out that if I'm going to dismiss Roths SB wins for those reasons, then I have to dismiss Elway's as well.

[Northman]

I completely agree.

Man.. if we could go back to 2011 I'd LOOOOOVE to have Denver take Roth (although would have to move up to do it). That would have been awesome.

Yea, i actually meant 2004 when he was drafted but even after McD if Ben had been on the market i would of been all over it.

[BroncoJoe]

Comparing Cutler to Big Ben is like comparing the clock on my wall to London's Big Ben.

Cutler sucks, and any apologist for him simply doesn't know football very well.

[Ravage!!!]

I know, he was just point out that if I'm going to dismiss Roths SB wins for those reasons, then I have to dismiss Elway's as well.

No. He's saying that even great QBs have to have supporting casts. You want to take away from Roth for having those on his team, but EVEN Elway coudln't win it without that kind of help.

[Ravage!!!]

Comparing Cutler to Big Ben is like comparing the clock on my wall to London's Big Ben.

Cutler sucks, and any apologist for him simply doesn't know football very well.

Careful, Joe. You are showing your own ignorance.

Cutler doesn't suck nearly as bad as some of you would like to suggest, and anyone that says that he does, just doesn't know football very well.

[BroncoJoe]

Careful, Joe. You are showing your own ignorance.

Cutler doesn't suck nearly as bad as some of you would like to suggest, and anyone that says that he does, just doesn't know football very well.

BS. He has world class talent, and a Ryan Leaf brain. He sucks, and those that think otherwise simply ignore the play on the field.

[Northman]

Jay has talent, more than most QB's. But it has gone to waste for a variance of reasons which include some of his own faults. Jay's greatest mistake in my opinion was allowing McD to get under his skin to the point where he bailed on everyone from Bowlen on down to the fans. Prior to that fiasco Bowlen had said that the Broncos were Jay's team. But Jay didnt take that in consideration when he pouted and stormed his way out of Denver. Had he been able to ride the hurricane through the McD period and let it settle when Elway and Fox came to town i think he would be a much better QB today both mentally and mechanically. Just goes to show how one decision can send you on a entirely different path in your career. A part of me wishes i could of seen what Elway and Fox could of done for a talented player like that but that was never my decision to make and i do blame Jay for losing faith in the teammates who supported and fans who wanted him here. In the end it was his choice to go and now he is paying the price for that decision.

[FanInAZ]

No. He's saying that even great QBs have to have supporting casts. You want to take away from Roth for having those on his team, but EVEN Elway coudln't win it without that kind of help.

Yes, I've always said every QB needs a supporting casts to be successful. You say I'm taking away from Roth for being on those teams with supporting cast, I say you're taking away from Cutler for being on teams without them.

[Ravage!!!]

BS. He has world class talent, and a Ryan Leaf brain. He sucks, and those that think otherwise simply ignore the play on the field.

BS. Some want to hate him for more reasons than just his play, thus making broad statements that don't hold true. "Those that think otherwise simply ignore everything put out in front of him." I can't stop from laughing at the mere fact that youthink your opinion is soooo factual that it can't be disputed, its pretty funny.

[Ravage!!!]

Yes, I've always said every QB needs a supporting casts to be successful. You say I'm taking away from Roth for being on those teams with supporting cast, I say you're taking away from Cutler for being on teams without them.

I'm taking away from Cutler? No no. I've been a Cutler "defender" on these boards from the beginning. I don't think he's nearly as bad as some of the"haters" will claim....but in reality, he just never reached his potential. Leadership comes from within, and he just never has had that.

Many hate on him because of his face expressions alone. But lets be real when it comes to his play over the last decade. It's fallen short.

[Dapper Dan]

Give me Eli Manning over Jay Cutler any day.

[Ravage!!!]

Jay has talent, more than most QB's. But it has gone to waste for a variance of reasons which include some of his own faults. Jay's greatest mistake in my opinion was allowing McD to get under his skin to the point where he bailed on everyone from Bowlen on down to the fans. Prior to that fiasco Bowlen had said that the Broncos were Jay's team. But Jay didnt take that in consideration when he pouted and stormed his way out of Denver. Had he been able to ride the hurricane through the McD period and let it settle when Elway and Fox came to town i think he would be a much better QB today both mentally and mechanically. Just goes to show how one decision can send you on a entirely different path in your career. A part of me wishes i could of seen what Elway and Fox could of done for a talented player like that but that was never my decision to make and i do blame Jay for losing faith in the teammates who supported and fans who wanted him here. In the end it was his choice to go and now he is paying the price for that decision.

I agree with everything...but I don't think it was Jay's decision to go. THat was McD's...as well as the reports that "he only picked up the phone." The media spin to make it sound like Jay was all pissy seems to me that it was more of McD doing what he could to keep the fans on his side, more than anything else. Jay DID come to Denver to meet with the coach to get things patched up, but it didn't work out. It very well could have been that because of the circumstances, Jay saw the douche that McD was before anyone else did. It didn't take long for many of the other players to see it. Didn't take long for assistant coaches to see it. DIdn't take long for the fans to see it.

Like you said, I think things would/could have been different had we never hired McD, but Jay hasn't gone on to fulfill what he has the ability to do. As a player, as a QB, you have to be a leader. Unfortunately (as well) Jay's facial expressions don't sit well with fans and they are the first to make judgements. That's not his ONLY fault, but far. He has too many, to be honest. But that's one that gets the fans on his back more than not. If he had a "likeable" demeanor, guys like Joe wouldn't be so adament.

[Valar Morghulis]

Give me Eli Manning over Jay Cutler any day.

I would like Eli in Denver, as long as he wrote #18.

#frugality

[FanInAZ]

Give me Eli Manning over Jay Cutler any day.

Cutler's biggest rap is him being an INT machine, compare his to Eli's

Cutler: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm
Eli: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm

The biggest for reason people to not like Cutler, Eli's worst.

[Ravage!!!]

Cutler's biggest rap is him being an INT machine, compare his to Eli's

Cutler: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm
Eli: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm

The biggest for reason people to not like Cutler, Eli's worst.

But Eli is a nicer guy. He has the friendly demeanor, and has the last name Manning.

[Dapper Dan]

Cutler's biggest rap is him being an INT machine, compare his to Eli's

Cutler: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm
Eli: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm

The biggest for reason people to not like Cutler, Eli's worst.

I thought people hated Cutler because he's a douche. Has Eli ever pushed one of his own linemen? There's also durability. Hasn't Eli started pretty much every game since he was drafted? There are lots of reasons not to like Cutler. INTs would be one of many.

[BroncoWave]

Not as tired they would be if they had to deal with what they had to watch last Sunday.

Again, this is just speaking to my friend who is a bears fan, but he would WAY rather see what he saw last Sunday and just have them bottom out and get a good pick instead of constantly being mediocre with Cutler.

[Dapper Dan]

People act like Cutler never had a good RB or a great defense. Haha.

[Ravage!!!]

Again, this is just speaking to my friend who is a bears fan, but he would WAY rather see what he saw last Sunday and just have them bottom out and get a good pick instead of constantly being mediocre with Cutler.

Yeah.. but that's just WANTING to lose. That's different.

[BroncoJoe]

BS. Some want to hate him for more reasons than just his play, thus making broad statements that don't hold true. "Those that think otherwise simply ignore everything put out in front of him." I can't stop from laughing at the mere fact that youthink your opinion is soooo factual that it can't be disputed, its pretty funny.

Ditto.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah.. but that's just WANTING to lose. That's different.

Then as to your point, almost every team is going to look way worse with their backup QB in than their starter. But that doesn't make the starter good. Obviously Cutler is better than any backup QB in the NFL, but that doesn't mean the Bears can't or shouldn't try to upgrade.

[DenBronx]

Give me Eli Manning over Jay Cutler any day.


Agreed. Eli is still a good QB.

[FanInAZ]

Has Eli ever pushed one of his own linemen?

I saw Aikman grab a FB after he miss a block that resulted in Aikman getting sacked. Not making excuses for Cutler, but just pointing out that what he did isn't unprecedented.

[BroncoJoe]

To clarify:

I didn't want Cutler here and thought it was a dumb draft choice by Shanahan. That said, when I saw his talent, I thought it was a good if not great choice. Then we got to know him as a person. Douche. Definitely NOT a leader of men.

And, he's proved nothing in this league, other than a good bet he'll throw a game ending INT. Jeff George reincarnated. All the talent in the world, shit for brains and an entitlement attitude.

[Ravage!!!]

Then as to your point, almost every team is going to look way worse with their backup QB in than their starter. But that doesn't make the starter good. Obviously Cutler is better than any backup QB in the NFL, but that doesn't mean the Bears can't or shouldn't try to upgrade.

Frak.. I swear... you want to make everything into an argument. The point was, the Bears were looking pretty good and pretty competive against GB before Jay was injured.

I just said they wouldn't be as tired of Jay if they had to watch the HORRIBLE play that was going on the field without him for very long. Does that say ANYTHING about not being able to do better?

[Ravage!!!]

EVEN looking back at what we know now..... it was STILL an absolutely stupid and horrendous decision on McD's part to attempt to trade him away from Matt Cassle.

[Dapper Dan]

I saw Aikman grab a FB after he miss a block that resulted in Aikman getting sacked. Not making excuses for Cutler, but just pointing out that what he did isn't unprecedented.

That FB caused one of Aikman's 2947482727384* concussions.

*estimated

[BroncoJoe]

Frak.. I swear... you want to make everything into an argument. The point was, the Bears were looking pretty good and pretty competive against GB before Jay was injured.

I just said they wouldn't be as tired of Jay if they had to watch the HORRIBLE play that was going on the field without him for very long. Does that say ANYTHING about not being able to do better?

Because he's brought them SO much previously? You're living in a fantasy world. Get a grip. They "tired of Jay" long before the Packers game.

[BroncoWave]

Frak.. I swear... you want to make everything into an argument. The point was, the Bears were looking pretty good and pretty competive against GB before Jay was injured.

I just said they wouldn't be as tired of Jay if they had to watch the HORRIBLE play that was going on the field without him for very long. Does that say ANYTHING about not being able to do better?

Again, just because their backups suck doesn't mean Cutler is good. He just sucks a little less and is good enough to keep them mediocre instead of horrible. Hell just two years ago the Bears got BETTER when their backup QB had to play extended time.

[Ravage!!!]

I saw Aikman grab a FB after he miss a block that resulted in Aikman getting sacked. Not making excuses for Cutler, but just pointing out that what he did isn't unprecedented.

I've seen many QBs get into their lineman's face and similar things. Marino did as well. But people don't like Jay's personality (from what they see on the field) thus they don't like to see it. A lot of being a fan favorite is perception. His TV presence is terrible. I mean... its' terrible.

[Ravage!!!]

Again, just because their backups suck doesn't mean Cutler is good. He just sucks a little less and is good enough to keep them mediocre instead of horrible. Hell just two years ago the Bears got BETTER when their backup QB had to play extended time.

Again.. point out to me where I'm saying Cutler is good, then we'll move on from there. Also, you are completely wrong in saying that the Bears got better when their back-up was in the line-up. That's just flat out wrong in every way.

[Dapper Dan]

Jeff George reincarnated.
That's exactly what Shannon Sharpe called him.

[BroncoJoe]

I've seen many QBs get into their lineman's face and similar things. Marino did as well. But people don't like Jay's personality (from what they see on the field) thus they don't like to see it. A lot of being a fan favorite is perception. His TV presence is terrible. I mean... its' terrible.

Dude. He's not a very good QB. He just isn't, and a lot of it has to do with attitude - which includes off field stuff.

[Ravage!!!]

Because he's brought them SO much previously? You're living in a fantasy world. Get a grip. They "tired of Jay" long before the Packers game.

ok. What does that have to do with my point?

[Ravage!!!]

That's exactly what Shannon Sharpe called him.

Yeah.. that doesn't make it accurate. Jay's playing record is a lot better than George's. So its not an original comment at all.

[BroncoWave]

Again.. Po int out to me where I'm saying Cutler is good, then we'll move on from there.

I don't understand your argument I guess? What is the point of saying the Bears would rather see Cutler than the horrible product they have on the field now? Yeah, they obviously would, but that's more of a product of them failing to adequately fill the backup QB role than of Cutler being good or even average.

[BroncoJoe]

ok. What does that have to do with my point?

Maybe if you clearly defined your point, we'd understand? You're all over the board with your last few posts.

[BroncoWave]

ok. What does that have to do with my point?

It's hard to say. You aren't really making a clear point. You are bashing anyone who says Cutler sucks, but then want to deny it when your position is classified as him being good. Forgive us all for not understanding what the hell you are talking about.

[Ravage!!!]

Maybe if you clearly defined your point, we'd understand? You're all over the board with your last few posts.

No I'm not. I've been very clear as to where I stand. Simply look back at what I've posted to FanInAz about Cutler's play/abilities/leadership. I was quite frank and very clear as to what I see as to where he stands and his failings. There really isn't any cloudiness to it. You and wave just want to argue about everything.

[BroncoWave]

You and wave just want to argue about everything.

Yeah, it's our fault you can't make a coherent argument. :lol:

[weazel]

I say we trade Ware and Von for Alshon Jefferies and the kicker!

[BroncoJoe]

No I'm not. I've been very clear as to where I stand. Simply look back at what I've posted to FanInAz about Cutler's play/abilities/leadership. I was quite frank and very clear as to what I see as to where he stands and his failings. There really isn't any cloudiness to it. You and wave just want to argue about everything.

BS. You're the one arguing at this point. Cutler has great skills and ability, but zero leadership. IMO, that's nearly as important as ability in this league. Note the emphasis on NEARLY.

[Ravage!!!]

It's hard to say. You aren't really making a clear point. You are bashing anyone who says Cutler sucks, but then want to deny it when your position is classified as him being good. Forgive us all for not understanding what the hell you are talking about.

Wave, I haven't "bashed" anyone. I've been very clear as to saying that I don't think he's a very good QB, but I certainly don't think he's nearly as bad as Joe is making it out to be. Period. JOe has made 2 posts that said that if we didn't agree with his assessment, then we dont' know anything about football. That's absurd on so many levels that I addressed that by using his own words in response to his post.

I've been very clear but you guys just want to think that my posts are all about defending Jay, when I've just said several times that I know he's not a very good QB...but that doesn't mean I think he's as bad as Joe tries to protest.

[Ravage!!!]

BS. You're the one arguing at this point. Cutler has great skills and ability, but zero leadership. IMO, that's nearly as important as ability in this league. Note the emphasis on NEARLY.

Ok. Have I disagreed with that?

[BroncoWave]

Wave, I haven't "bashed" anyone. I've been very clear as to saying that I don't think he's a very good QB, but I certainly don't think he's nearly as bad as Joe is making it out to be. Period. JOe has made 2 posts that said that if we didn't agree with his assessment, then we dont' know anything about football. That's absurd on so many levels that I addressed that by using his own words in response to his post.

I've been very clear but you guys just want to think that my posts are all about defending Jay, when I've just said several times that I know he's not a very good QB...but that doesn't mean I think he's as bad as Joe tries to protest.

For someone who doesn't think Cutler is good, you sure do get mad and argumentative when other people say the exact same thing.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah, it's our fault you can't make a coherent argument. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

you and joe (especially joe) aren't exactly known for having good reading retention. So you'll excuse me for not being too disturbed that the two of you are running a bit late.

[Ravage!!!]

For someone who doesn't think Cutler is good, you sure do get mad and argumentative when other people say the exact same thing.

Who's mad? I haven't been argumentative :lol: I SAID FLAT OUT that Jay isn't good. The only time I deviated from that was when Joe said that if we didn't agree with his opinion, that we didn't know football. :lol:

[BroncoJoe]

Wave, I haven't "bashed" anyone. I've been very clear as to saying that I don't think he's a very good QB, but I certainly don't think he's nearly as bad as Joe is making it out to be. Period. JOe has made 2 posts that said that if we didn't agree with his assessment, then we dont' know anything about football. That's absurd on so many levels that I addressed that by using his own words in response to his post.

I've been very clear but you guys just want to think that my posts are all about defending Jay, when I've just said several times that I know he's not a very good QB...but that doesn't mean I think he's as bad as Joe tries to protest.

Would you take Cutler as your starting QB if you were a GM of an NFL team?

I wouldn't. Frankly, I'd take Tebow before Cutler, and move on from there. TO CLARIFY: I AM NOT A TEBOWITE.

[BroncoWave]

Who's mad? I haven't been argumentative :lol: I SAID FLAT OUT that Jay isn't good. The only time I deviated from that was when Joe said that if we didn't agree with his opinion, that we didn't know football. :lol:

I don't have the time to dig up old threads, but I can think of countless ones where people have said Cutler sucks and you argued with them about it for pages and pages.

[Ravage!!!]

Would you take Cutler as your starting QB if you were a GM of an NFL team?

I wouldn't. Frankly, I'd take Tebow before Cutler, and move on from there. TO CLARIFY: I AM NOT A TEBOWITE.

To answer your first question, that would ENTIRELY depend on what my other choices are.

As to your second point.... THen I think you have answered the question as to who doesn't know football.

[chazoe60]

Back to the point of this thread: I doubt the Bears would be willing to do much business with us without overcharging us, since Fox is in charge.

[BroncoJoe]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

you and joe (especially joe) aren't exactly known for having good reading retention. So you'll excuse me for not being too disturbed that the two of you are running a bit late.

Right. Reading comprehension coincides with someone actually articulating their position accurately - and being consistent in their stance.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't have the time to dig up old threads, but I can think of countless ones where people have said Cutler sucks and you argued with them about it for pages and pages.

Again...wave.. TRY to read these words...for the love of god.. PLEASE read these words. There is a difference between saying that he's not good, and sucks. I'll defend when some posters will try to say that he's worse than what he is. SOme people post hate like we see chaz posts in regards to Moore. It's not completely logical, and is only based on the dislike.

So I'm not saying Jay is good. I'm saying he's not nearly as bad as what Joe is saying. Just like here. I've said over and over again that he's nver lived up to his potential/skills...and doesn't have good leadership...but he's certainly not at the level that Joe tries to portray.

[Ravage!!!]

Right. Reading comprehension coincides with someone actually articulating their position accurately - and being consistent in their stance.

Thank you Joe for clarifying that. I've been quite clear in my stance. However, it's your distaste for Jay that has clouded your comprehension of the discussion. I've been very consistant on my stance. Haven't you learned what an opinion is, yet?

[BroncoJoe]

To answer your first question, that would ENTIRELY depend on what my other choices are.

As to your second point.... THen I think you have answered the question as to who doesn't know football.

I knew as soon as I hit "Post Quick Reply" that would be your answer.

Cool. Go with Cutler. I'll take a team guy and a leader (nearly) regardless of talent any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Remind me again on Cutler's winning percentage or playoff appearances?

Awesome talent.

[Ravage!!!]

I knew as soon as I hit "Post Quick Reply" that would be your answer.

Cool. Go with Cutler. I'll take a team guy and a leader (nearly) regardless of talent any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Remind me again on Cutler's winning percentage or playoff appearances?

Awesome talent.

Good. THen if you knew my answer then I must have been very clear on my opinion of his talent.

you can "rah rah" yourself all the way to those jersey sales. You obviously know the NFL much better than the rest of us.

Speaking of that "potential talent." How is Tebow's NFL career going?

[Dapper Dan]

I say we trade Ware and Von for Alshon Jefferies and the kicker!

I hope the kicker's name is Matt Forte.

[Dapper Dan]

Yeah.. that doesn't make it accurate. Jay's playing record is a lot better than George's. So its not an original comment at all.

:lol: And you said Wave was trying to make everything into an argument.

[BroncoJoe]

Thank you Joe for clarifying that. I've been quite clear in my stance. However, it's your distaste for Jay that has clouded your comprehension of the discussion. I've been very consistant on my stance. Haven't you learned what an opinion is, yet?

You could be right - I do dislike Cutler. He was a trader to the team I love, and perhaps that has clouded my perception (not comprehension) of the discussion.

Doesn't take away from how you are his personal bodyguard.

[BroncoJoe]

Good. THen if you knew my answer then I must have been very clear on my opinion of his talent.

you can "rah rah" yourself all the way to those jersey sales. You obviously know the NFL much better than the rest of us.

Speaking of that "potential talent." How is Tebow's NFL career going?

How's Jay's?

[Ravage!!!]

:lol: And you said Wave was trying to make everything into an argument.

Meh. Maybe. It's just an old statement that kinda gets old. :shrug:

[Dapper Dan]

You could be right - I do dislike Cutler. He was a trader to the team I love, and perhaps that has clouded my perception (not comprehension) of the discussion.

Doesn't take away from how you are his personal bodyguard.

I like to picture Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston here.

[Dapper Dan]

Meh. Maybe. It's just an old statement that kinda gets old. :shrug:

I'd never heard it until about 2 days ago when Sharpe said it.

[Ravage!!!]

How's Jay's?
Still going.

[BroncoJoe]

Still going nowhere.

fify.

[Ravage!!!]

I'd never heard it until about 2 days ago when Sharpe said it.

Really? .. well, I'll inform you that its been around the boards for years. It's and old, old cliche' now.

[Dapper Dan]

Really? .. well, I'll inform you that its been around the boards for years. It's and old, old cliche' now.

Yea . Well. As they say, if you can't stand the heat dont cross the road.

[Ravage!!!]

Yea . Well. As they say, if you can't stand the heat dont cross the road.

They do? What's that mean?

[BroncoJoe]

Just imagine for a moment - Jay Cutler's skills with the mindset of Tebow.

Man - that dude would have been special.

[chazoe60]

Just imagine for a moment - Jay Cutler's skills with the mindset of Tebow.

Man - that dude would have been special.

Now imagine a QB with Tebow's skills and Jay Cutler's mindset. :laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

Now imagine a QB with Tebow's skills and Jay Cutler's mindset. :laugh:

:lol: :lol: OHHHH the Humanity!!!!!!

[BroncoJoe]

Now imagine a QB with Tebow's skills and Jay Cutler's mindset. :laugh:

Dear God - that'd be horrific!

[ShaneFalco]

id take most backups over jay cutler. Guy does not care if he wins or loses.

Bradford is a better qb, with his finger lickin self.

[MOtorboat]

Cutler blows. Brilliant move by McDaniels.

[TXBRONC]

Now imagine a QB with Tebow's skills and Jay Cutler's mindset. :laugh:

And his name shall be chazoe60. :wave:

[Dapper Dan]

They do? What's that mean?

It's just one of those old sayings. Like, people in glass houses sink ships.

[TXBRONC]

Cutler blows. Brilliant move by McDaniels.

Nah McDaniels blows and the most brilliant move was Bowlen firing his goofy cheating ass.

[Simple Jaded]

I'll take Kyle Long, that's about it.

[Simple Jaded]

Now imagine a QB with Tebow's skills and Jay Cutler's mindset. :laugh:

At least there'd be no Tebowmania.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

They're probably not going to be willing to trade young talent, but guys like Royal or Forte might be on the block. How old is Bennett?

[Simple Jaded]

They're probably not going to be willing to trade young talent, but guys like Royal or Forte might be on the block. How old is Bennett?

That'd be a nice get.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4639/martellus-bennett

He's 28.

[CrazyHorse]

EVEN looking back at what we know now..... it was STILL an absolutely stupid and horrendous decision on McD's part to attempt to trade him away from Matt Cassle.

Patriots trying to sabotage us. Can we trade Cody Latimer for Eddie Royal straight up?

[Northman]

Now imagine a QB with Tebow's skills and Jay Cutler's mindset. :laugh:

They had one, his name was Akili Smith.

[Cugel]

Even foregoing the literal interpretation Forte would average 6.6 yds/att (since we averaged <2.2 against a below average run D Sunday, our worst showing yet, against the weakest run D we've faced) NOTHING can or will significantly improve our run game except BLOCKING, and nothing can or will improve that but TIME. We've got a freakin' ALL PRO and BROUGHT IN ANOTHER and even THEY look like crap: How's Forte gonna change that, or singlehandedly compensate for it? Same way Manning's singlehandedly won us SBs compensating for our awful lines passing failures?

I don't know who's out there or what his value is, but would much rather deal Latimers huge talent and high draft position to an unsuspecting sucker for a solid OT. And probably STILL sit him so the ones we've got have time to gel, but at least there'd be more than JUST Schofield if anything happens to Sambrailo or Ryan Harris (who has an injury history; that's part of why he left Denver in the first place.)

I agree with everything you said here Joel. Except that I doubt it's possible to find a trade for a RT at this point. Having Matt Forte (who the Bears might well trade if someone offered them a 5th round pick) would be nice, but he would do no better than CJ Anderson behind this atrocious OL. And he's an UFA next off-season, so they might not even keep him.

We all saw what happened when a determined Jawan Thompson tried to just lower his head and run through the "hole". He got savagely met and his spine compressed. I'll be amazed if he doesn't suffer a lingering injury from that hit.

There just wasn't a hole. There was nowhere to run. If there was one guy on the Bears I'd want it would be their TE Martellus Bennett. That guy would be a beast blocker, and he's a good pass-catcher.

You would think he's a guy they would never want to trade. But, if they're going to rebuild, and you need as much draft ammo as possible because you need to possibly move up in the draft and get a top QB prospect, then it might be possible. They are certainly at the end of the Jay Cutler era and Jimmy Clausen is taking them nowhere except a top 5 pick in the draft.

So, if I were talking to the Bears, I'd be trying to deal for Martellus Bennett, not Matt Forte.

[Ravage!!!]

It's just one of those old sayings. Like, people in glass houses sink ships.

Huh. All these years I've been saying these sayings all wrong.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
EVEN looking back at what we know now..... it was STILL an absolutely stupid and horrendous decision on McD's part to attempt to trade him away from Matt Cassel.


Yes, but on the good side, it did dramatically shorten his tenure in Denver. Just think how much damage he could have inflicted on this franchise if he'd had 1 more year - which he probably would have if he'd kept Jay Cutler instead of trying to trade for Cassel and winding up with Kyle Orton.

Because the worst damage he did wasn't even getting rid of Cutler, it was (in order):

1. Blowing the trade for Cutler - not maximizing trade value because he wanted the Bears' Kyle Orton, so he had to turn down better offers.

2. Throwing away all the draft picks he got for that trade on idiotic picks like Alphonso Smith.

3. Trading a bunch of picks to move up and get Tim Tebow.

On and on. There's no point talking about the damage that Moron did. It was potent and long-lasting.

[Cugel]

That'd be a nice get.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4639/martellus-bennett

He's 28.

I totally missed this post. You had the same idea. Martellus Bennett would be a real beast on this team and he can block a LOT better than Virgil Greene.

[tomjonesrocks]

I doubt relations between the Bears and Broncos organizations is friendly enough for a deal to transpire.

Seems pretty wishful thinking they're going to hand their stars over. Fire sale or not.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I doubt relations between the Bears and Broncos organizations is friendly enough for a deal to transpire.

Seems pretty wishful thinking they're going to hand their stars over. Fire sale or not.

That's a good point, but it might not be that tense because John Fox isn't the GM.

[TXBRONC]

I totally missed this post. You had the same idea. Martellus Bennett would be a real beast on this team and he can block a LOT better than Virgil Greene.

I was the first one to mention Martellus Bennett councilor. :D

He might be better than Green at blocking but Green isn't bad and that's one reason he's still here.

[NightTerror218]

Saw a rumor that Forte could be shipped out as well and Denver could be landing spot.

Yay for rumors.

[TXBRONC]

Saw a rumor that Forte could be shipped out as well and Denver could be landing spot.

Yay for rumors.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Forte has been a great back but he's 30 something I could see him being kind of expensive.

[tomjonesrocks]

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Forte has been a great back but he's 30 something I could see him being kind of expensive.

Roundly reported Denver and Dallas have no interest. Zero possibility this would happen.

[silkamilkamonico]

He's probably praying he doesn't land in Denver. That would kill his career.