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Denver Native (Carol)
09-21-2015, 01:00 PM
After further evaluation, I'm convinced we grade the Broncos offense too harshly.

There were plenty of gripes from fans and media after a tough Week 1 victory over the Ravens.

Peyton Manning is struggling, maybe he's done. The offensive line can't protect a fly. The running backs can't gain a yard. Gary Kubiak's system just doesn't gel for anyone.

A wild comeback road victory over the Chiefs Thursday quieted some of the chatter, but concerns still lingered.

On a rare Sunday without Broncos football, I turned on the Cowboys-Eagles game to see what I thought would be a game full of fireworks and points from two of the league's better offenses.

Instead, both laid an egg. They combined for five turnovers and 26 penalties.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/knowthis/ci_28851442/tap-brakes-gripes-over-denver-broncos-ailing-offense

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 01:03 PM
From the article, and what I've been preaching:


The Broncos had one of the best offenses in the last three seasons, but it didn't get them a ring.

Exactly. Sorry MO.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-21-2015, 01:05 PM
From the article, and what I've been preaching:



Exactly. Sorry MO.

Also from article -


Denver did win Super Bowl XXXII in 1997 with quarterback John Elway throwing for only 123 yards.

CoachChaz
09-21-2015, 01:18 PM
Also from article -

With a world class line and a (should be) HoF running back.

Apples and Oranges

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 01:18 PM
Also from article -

Elway was good when the team needed him to be on the drive sealed Denver's victory. Davis did his thing but I remember very well a pass completion from Elway to Griffith that was key to that drive. Ed McCaffery laying out Bernardo Harris but without the initial completion McCaffery never gets the chance to knock Harris on his rear end.

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 01:35 PM
From the article, and what I've been preaching:



Exactly. Sorry MO.

I have a hard time understanding why people think a worse offense would have resulted in more wins.

I guess it's just me, though.

Northman
09-21-2015, 01:41 PM
Also from article -

Big difference in that game though was #30.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 01:45 PM
I have a hard time understanding why people think a worse offense would have resulted in more wins.

I guess it's just me, though.

No one has said that MO. No one is going to argue the offense needs to be better but it doesn't have to be like the offense Denver has had the last four years. Offense that can put up 30 to 35 points per game is going a lot of ball games especially if the defense can hold opposing offenses to 17 points per game.

Joel
09-21-2015, 02:06 PM
Elway was good when the team needed him to be on the drive sealed Denver's victory. Davis did his thing but I remember very well a pass completion from Elway to Griffith that was key to that drive. Ed McCaffery laying out Bernardo Harris but without the initial completion McCaffery never gets the chance to knock Harris on his rear end.

Remember the first TD? Elway faking a handoff so 8 Packers followed TD (because they were THAT scared of him, and didn't know he was literally blinded by a migraine at the time) and he jogged the other way into the end zone untouched (and could have hit an uncovered Griffith just as easily)? He brought back Kubes and Dennison so we could BECOME capable of that again, not because we already are.

Sadly, no one needs to tap this offenses brakes: Someone needs to remove its boot.

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 02:10 PM
No one has said that MO. No one is going to argue the offense needs to be better but it doesn't have to be like the offense Denver has had the last four years. Offense that can put up 30 to 35 points per game is going a lot of ball games especially if the defense can hold opposing offenses to 17 points per game.

It's exactly what's implied. They set records in the passing game in 2013 and got to the Super Bowl, but that's considered a shitty season around these parts because they lost the game.

2014, Manning starts off on fire and gets injured, so C.J. Anderson runs for the second most yards in the NFL in the last seven games of the season (the exact thing everyone seems to be opining for now), just like Moreno did in the second half of 2012, and Denver loses in the divisional round both times. They've tried both ways, and one got them to a Super Bowl. I elect for the option that got them to a Super Bowl. Having "balance" is fine and all, but when you're running it into the line for 1 yard a pop, you're not getting to January, let alone February.

I don't understand what your third sentence is trying to get at.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 02:32 PM
It's exactly what's implied. They set records in the passing game in 2013 and got to the Super Bowl, but that's considered a shitty season around these parts because they lost the game.

2014, Manning starts off on fire and gets injured, so C.J. Anderson runs for the second most yards in the NFL in the last seven games of the season (the exact thing everyone seems to be opining for now), just like Moreno did in the second half of 2012, and Denver loses in the divisional round both times. They've tried both ways, and one got them to a Super Bowl. I elect for the option that got them to a Super Bowl. Having "balance" is fine and all, but when you're running it into the line for 1 yard a pop, you're not getting to January, let alone February.

I don't understand what your third sentence is trying to get at.

This is what I was trying to say earlier: An offense that can put up 30 to 35 points per game is going to wina lot of ball games especially if the defense can hold opposing offenses to 17 points per game.

I still don't see anyone saying that 2013 was a shitty season because the Broncos didn't win Super Bowl. What people are saying is that formula didn't finish the job when it counted the most. Being a finesse team obviously isn't going to get the job done. You want Kubiak to scrap his offensive philosophy just because things have been tough the first two game? I can't think of any coaches that have scrapped what they believe after just two games. How do you know that struggles that the offense is having now are going carry on for the rest of season?

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 02:35 PM
This is what I was trying to say earlier: An offense that can put up 30 to 35 points per game is going to wina lot of ball games especially if the defense can hold opposing offenses to 17 points per game.

I still don't see anyone saying that 2013 was a shitty season because the Broncos didn't win Super Bowl. What people are saying is that formula didn't finish the job when it counted the most. Being a finesse team obviously isn't going to get the job done. You want Kubiak to scrap his offensive philosophy just because things have been tough the first two game? I can't think of any coaches that have scrapped what they believe after just two games. How do you know that struggles that the offense is having now are going carry on for the rest of season?

Denver wasn't a finesse team coming down the stretch last year. Still lost. What now?

I'd like to go back to trying to score 35 and unleashing the passing offense instead of plowing it into the line and hoping it gets better by week 9.

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 02:48 PM
I have a hard time understanding why people think a worse offense would have resulted in more wins.

I guess it's just me, though.

Yeah, it pretty much is just you.

13-3, 13-3, 12-4. We've had plenty of wins. We've also had a SB loss (of nearly epic proportions), and two divisional playoff losses.

Yep - I'm stoked to stay the same.

Maybe we should bring back George Karl. After all, he did get us to the playoffs.

Buff
09-21-2015, 02:49 PM
I guess the Denver Post is letting interns write articles now. Statistically we have the worst offense, but it's cool because we're 2-0. Got it. Thanks.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 02:51 PM
Remember the first TD? Elway faking a handoff so 8 Packers followed TD (because they were THAT scared of him, and didn't know he was literally blinded by a migraine at the time) and he jogged the other way into the end zone untouched (and could have hit an uncovered Griffith just as easily)? He brought back Kubes and Dennison so we could BECOME capable of that again, not because we already are.

Sadly, no one needs to tap this offenses brakes: Someone needs to remove its boot.

Yes Elway jogged into end zone because he had a clear path but it was intended to be a pass. If Elway had thrown it instead of running it would have still netted the same result.

Joel you and I are on different wave lengths. Denver wasn't afraid to throw the ball in Super Bowl XXII. The game plan was to neutralize Leroy Butler and run the Packers defensive line into the ground. Super Bowl XXXIII was a completely different game plan. Elway threw the ball 29 times.

Northman
09-21-2015, 02:51 PM
It's exactly what's implied. They set records in the passing game in 2013 and got to the Super Bowl, but that's considered a shitty season around these parts because they lost the game.

2014, Manning starts off on fire and gets injured, so C.J. Anderson runs for the second most yards in the NFL in the last seven games of the season (the exact thing everyone seems to be opining for now), just like Moreno did in the second half of 2012, and Denver loses in the divisional round both times. They've tried both ways, and one got them to a Super Bowl. I elect for the option that got them to a Super Bowl. Having "balance" is fine and all, but when you're running it into the line for 1 yard a pop, you're not getting to January, let alone February.

I don't understand what your third sentence is trying to get at.


Unfortunately you have to pick your poison, you cant really have both and i cant remember ever seeing a team that had both a world class offense and a 1st class defense at the same time. I mean, Seattle didnt break any scoring records the year they smashed us 43-8 in the SB. I mean, what good is a high scoring offense if you cant bring home the lombardi? I just never understood that about your stance on this.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 02:57 PM
Denver wasn't a finesse team coming down the stretch last year. Still lost. What now?

I'd like to go back to trying to score 35 and unleashing the passing offense instead of plowing it into the line and hoping it gets better by week 9.

So Kubiak should give up because it's difficult. The only way to get better at running the ball is keep working at it. MO how many head coaches give philosophy after just two game because I can't think of even one.

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 03:00 PM
So Kubiak should give up because it's difficult. The only way to get better at running the ball is keep working at it. MO how many head coaches give philosophy after just two game because I can't think of even one.

No, Kubiak should do what this team is good at.

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 03:01 PM
No, Kubiak should do what this team is good at.

Losing playoff games and the Superbowl?

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 03:08 PM
Losing playoff games and the Superbowl?

Sigh.

OK, let's go back to the McDaniels era where we didn't have to put up with those embarrassing scenarios then.

NightTerror218
09-21-2015, 03:14 PM
Manning is no Elway. You will never see Manning run and dive (helicopter) for first down. He had a chance in SB to run for a first and threw incompletion instead on 3rd down.

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 03:17 PM
Sigh.

OK, let's go back to the McDaniels era where we didn't have to put up with those embarrassing scenarios then.

Nah. I just think your position on this is silly. GREAT!! We have an awesome offense!! We make the playoffs every year and put up fantastic statistics!!!

That's got us exactly what? Great regular season team but can't win a Superbowl? Sweet.

Still trying to figure out why you're so against changing something that hasn't worked. Answer me this MO: What is the primary goal of any NFL team?

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 03:19 PM
Nah. I just think your position on this is silly. GREAT!! We have an awesome offense!! We make the playoffs every year and put up fantastic statistics!!!

That's got us exactly what? Great regular season team? Sweet.

Still trying to figure out why you're so against changing something that hasn't worked. Answer me this MO: What is the primary goal of any NFL team?

To score more points than the opponent in front of you on the schedule.

Northman
09-21-2015, 03:19 PM
Manning is no Elway. You will never see Manning run and dive (helicopter) for first down. He had a chance in SB to run for a first and threw incompletion instead on 3rd down.

You mean the playoff game with the Colts right? I dont remember Manning doing anything like that vs the Hawks.

NightTerror218
09-21-2015, 03:23 PM
You mean the playoff game with the Colts right? I dont remember Manning doing anything like that vs the Hawks.

It might have been. I know it was playoffs.

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 03:30 PM
To score more points than the opponent in front of you on the schedule.

Well, at least now I now understand where you're coming from. It's laughable, but at least I get your POV now. And, if that's the ultimate goal of a franchise, you're right.

At least until the playoffs begin, but since that's not technically "on the schedule", I guess we've been the best team in the entire league for the past three seasons. Yay!!! Lombardi trophies are over-rated anyway.

Joel
09-21-2015, 03:38 PM
Yes Elway jogged into end zone because he had a clear path but it was intended to be a pass. If Elway had thrown it instead of running it would have still netted the same result.

Sure: Classic PA boot, and, as noted, Griffith was uncovered, just as there was no one near Elway. But--WHY didn't an elite D have a spy on John Freakin ELWAY at its goal line, and why did it leave one of the better receiving FBs UNCOVERED IN ITS END ZONE IN THE SB?! Because, as also noted, THEY were too justifiably scared of TD (who ran for more SB TDs than anyone, despite missing the 2nd qtr) so when he went left, the whole D went with him as Elway and Griffith went right into an empty end zone. Because we were BALANCED: They couldn't cover everything, forcing them to choose the marginally lesser evil.


Joel you and I are on different wave lengths. Denver wasn't afraid to throw the ball in Super Bowl XXII. The game plan was to neutralize Leroy Butler and run the Packers defensive line into the ground. Super Bowl XXXIII was a completely different game plan. Elway threw the ball 29 times.

Who said we were afraid to throw then? Fear of passing didn't stop Elway lobbing an end zone Int the very first play after we strip-sacked Favre. The game plan was just as you described, and worked to perfection, and we could also note TD probably wouldn't be the only guy to EVER run for 3 TDs in a SB had GB been able to stack the box because we had someone like Dilfer under center. We didn't: When the Falcons sold out on stopping TD the next year, his numbers dropped (they could hardly go UP from SB XXXII) but Elway lit them up through the air.

How I miss having an offense with that kind of elite versatilty to keep Ds guessing. "Let" us score, indeed: If the Pack COULD'VE stopped the championship-winning score, it would've.

Joel
09-21-2015, 03:43 PM
Manning is no Elway. You will never see Manning run and dive (helicopter) for first down. He had a chance in SB to run for a first and threw incompletion instead on 3rd down.
That was AFTER he hurt his leg though; early in the year (vs. Arizona, I think) he made a nice 3rd and 10 sideline run for a conversion. Too bad Man Ram got called for holding and we wound up punting.

Too bad Kubiak and Dennison didn't get here to fix the line a year sooner, because it was already bad enough to be an all-year job then. There's a reason all but TWO of last years starters are gone, but it's gonna take time to get all the new ones on the same page, especially with a whole new offense as complex as the ZBS.


No, Kubiak should do what this team is good at.

Blocking so poorly it can't run, pass or even PUNT reliably? He's doing that now because he has no choice, but was brought here to STOP that, as I'm confident he will.

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 03:50 PM
Well, at least now I now understand where you're coming from. It's laughable, but at least I get your POV now. And, if that's the ultimate goal of a franchise, you're right.

At least until the playoffs begin, but since that's not technically "on the schedule", I guess we've been the best team in the entire league for the past three seasons. Yay!!! Lombardi trophies are over-rated anyway.

Scoring more points than your opponent in every game is laughable?

And just a reminder because you've lost your mind. The playoffs aren't on the schedule until you've qualified. And even in the playoffs, the requirement for a victory is to have more ******* points on the scoreboard than the other team. It's not laughable at all. It's how the ******* game works.

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 03:57 PM
Scoring more points than your opponent in every game is laughable?

And just a reminder because you've lost your mind. The playoffs aren't on the schedule until you've qualified. And even in the playoffs, the requirement for a victory is to have more ******* points on the scoreboard than the other team. It's not laughable at all. It's how the ******* game works.

Dude. The ultimate goal for ANY NFL franchise is to win the Superbowl. I guess the 9-7 Giants of 2011 should be embarrassed.

It's about winning the Superbowl, MO. And no. I haven't lost my mind.

Remind me again of how successful the Broncos have been over the last three years? I guess you're satisfied with a bunch of offense and points scored, but not too concerned about actually winning the NFL Championship. Are you related to John Fox?

BroncoNut
09-21-2015, 03:59 PM
It's exactly what's implied. They set records in the passing game in 2013 and got to the Super Bowl, but that's considered a shitty season around these parts because they lost the game.

2014, Manning starts off on fire and gets injured, so C.J. Anderson runs for the second most yards in the NFL in the last seven games of the season (the exact thing everyone seems to be opining for now), just like Moreno did in the second half of 2012, and Denver loses in the divisional round both times. They've tried both ways, and one got them to a Super Bowl. I elect for the option that got them to a Super Bowl. Having "balance" is fine and all, but when you're running it into the line for 1 yard a pop, you're not getting to January, let alone February.

I don't understand what your third sentence is trying to get at.

you need to pipe down

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 04:02 PM
Dude. The ultimate goal for ANY NFL franchise is to win the Superbowl. I guess the 9-7 Giants of 2011 should be embarrassed.

It's about winning the Superbowl, MO. And no. I haven't lost my mind.

Remind me again of how successful the Broncos have been over the last three years? I guess you're satisfied with a bunch of offense and points scored, but not too concerned about actually winning the NFL Championship. Are you related to John Fox?

Well, thus far, changing the offense has resulted in 16 points in two games. 8 points a game from your offense isn't going to win ball games and it's not going to get you to the playoffs.

When they opened up the offense at the end of the first half, they went on to score 21 points. You have to open up the offense.

You don't want that to happen, fine. Be careful what you wish for.

But don't listen to me, I'm just the crazy guy who likes my team to score more points than its opponents.

Joel
09-21-2015, 04:06 PM
Well, thus far, changing the offense has resulted in 16 points in two games. 8 points a game from your offense isn't going to win ball games....

Oh, so you DID see SB XLVIII; sometimes it's hard to tell.

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 04:08 PM
Oh, so you DID see SB XLVIII; sometimes it's hard to tell.

Oh good grief. Nothing the Broncos do this year will win that game two years ago.

NightTerror218
09-21-2015, 04:10 PM
Well, thus far, changing the offense has resulted in 16 points in two games. 8 points a game from your offense isn't going to win ball games and it's not going to get you to the playoffs.

When they opened up the offense at the end of the first half, they went on to score 21 points. You have to open up the offense.

You don't want that to happen, fine. Be careful what you wish for.

But don't listen to me, I'm just the crazy guy who likes my team to score more points than its opponents.

You do realize it was game 2 and a new coach and system takes time to implement. Not to mention a very young line.

The offense would have opened up if Manning hit the deep ball. He had shots.

MOtorboat
09-21-2015, 04:11 PM
You do realize it was game 2 and a new coach and system takes time to implement. Not to mention a very young line.

The offense would have opened up if Manning hit the deep ball. He had shots.

The window is now, though.

NightTerror218
09-21-2015, 04:14 PM
The window is now, though.

I rather be mediocre early in season then at the end. Gets the kinks out now. Let the young OL learn. As the season goes on the offense may evolve more. As long as this team is on a roll at end of season, that is all that matters. But I do not think Manning arm will survive 45+ passes a game, he is not young anymore.

BroncoJoe
09-21-2015, 05:16 PM
I rather be mediocre early in season then at the end. Gets the kinks out now. Let the young OL learn. As the season goes on the offense may evolve more. As long as this team is on a roll at end of season, that is all that matters. But I do not think Manning arm will survive 45+ passes a game, he is not young anymore.

NO NT!!!

WE NEED MANNING TO PASS 50+ TIMES A GAME AND SCORE 5 GAZILLION POINTS!!!!

Because, you know, it's won us championships the past three years.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 05:23 PM
No, Kubiak should do what this team is good at.

How is that not the same thing as saying he should change his philosophy? You want him run the offense in manner that isn't consistent with his what he wants to do because of couple of rough games. No head coach is going to do that.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 05:27 PM
I rather be mediocre early in season then at the end. Gets the kinks out now. Let the young OL learn. As the season goes on the offense may evolve more. As long as this team is on a roll at end of season, that is all that matters. But I do not think Manning arm will survive 45+ passes a game, he is not young anymore.

Elway in an interview at the start of the preseason basically the same thing. It's about being your best late in season.

Slick
09-21-2015, 05:31 PM
It's going to boil down to not getting physically dominated in Jan/Feb. Right now the team is doing it's part minus the offensive line. Manning looks like he means business too. A game like Thursday was exactly the type of game where he'd pout and have shitty body language that affected the whole team. He's taken shots and stood right in there and tied up the game.

That Thursday nighter was more impressive than any one of the Star Wars blowouts of the last 3 years. I'm encouraged about the direction this team is going.

Joel
09-21-2015, 07:31 PM
How is that not the same thing as saying he should change his philosophy? You want him run the offense in manner that isn't consistent with his what he wants to do because of couple of rough games. No head coach is going to do that.

He wants Kubiak to run the team HIS way, but used to accuse me of the same thing and claim it proved me a traitorous idiot. So this is kind of a natural response to Elway doing everything I've begged for for so long (I wish he'd drafed linemen earlier, but whoever he got would still be rookies.) The Program is rock solid, MO; accept it or turn in your fan card. :tongue:

SR
09-21-2015, 07:33 PM
Big difference in that game though was #30.

AKA Frank Gore. Amirite?

SR
09-21-2015, 07:35 PM
Manning is no Elway. You will never see Manning run and dive (helicopter) for first down. He had a chance in SB to run for a first and threw incompletion instead on 3rd down.

I think you're referring to the game against the Colts in the playoffs on fourth down when he could've ran for a first down but threw it away instead. I get your point though.

SR
09-21-2015, 07:36 PM
you need to pipe down

Hey buddy

OrangeHoof
09-21-2015, 08:31 PM
You guys realize you were just two Jamaal Charles' fumbles away from a loss on Thursday. The bitching would have been a lot more intense then.

TXBRONC
09-21-2015, 09:09 PM
You guys realize you were just two Jamaal Charles' fumbles away from a loss on Thursday. The bitching would have been a lot more intense then.

What do you mean Hoof? There are some who seem to be near meltdown mode after the victory.

BroncoNut
09-22-2015, 09:27 AM
Hey buddy

Hey Red

GEM
09-22-2015, 09:47 AM
What do you mean Hoof? There are some who seem to be near meltdown mode after the victory.

As Manning put it, I'd hate to see what would happen if we lost. :laugh:

Northman
09-22-2015, 10:03 AM
I rather be mediocre early in season then at the end. Gets the kinks out now. Let the young OL learn. As the season goes on the offense may evolve more. As long as this team is on a roll at end of season, that is all that matters. But I do not think Manning arm will survive 45+ passes a game, he is not young anymore.

Well, lets not jump the gun here. There is no guarantee that we will be better later in the year, i think we need to wait and see before proclaiming anything at this point.

Northman
09-22-2015, 10:04 AM
AKA Frank Gore. Amirite?

Did you see Gore's numbers last night? :laugh:

EastCoastBronco
09-22-2015, 10:32 AM
As always, the true litmus test is against Tom Lady and the Pats.
They look like they're in mid season form already by the way they dismantled Rex's D on Sunday.
If the O is still struggling when Nov 29 rolls around home field ain't gonna matter.

NightTerror218
09-22-2015, 11:00 AM
Well, lets not jump the gun here. There is no guarantee that we will be better later in the year, i think we need to wait and see before proclaiming anything at this point.

And there is nothing that says the new Oline won't get ahold on playing together by then either. Offense is hinging on that now.

Our new LT has face Suggs week 1 and KC Hali or whatever his name is. That is a rough stretch for a rookie.

Northman
09-22-2015, 11:21 AM
And there is nothing that says the new Oline won't get ahold on playing together by then either.

Which is why i said its a wait and see.

TXBRONC
09-22-2015, 12:41 PM
As Manning put it, I'd hate to see what would happen if we lost. :laugh:

It could be pretty entertaining for outsiders.

Joel
09-22-2015, 02:09 PM
Well, lets not jump the gun here. There is no guarantee that we will be better later in the year, i think we need to wait and see before proclaiming anything at this point.

Fair point as far as it goes, but at THIS point there's only direction the line can go. Mathis and Vasquez weren't voted All Pro because they're chumps; their currently awful performance is the exception, not the rule, and probably mostly due to undeveloped chemistry (especially for Mathis.) Kubiak and Dennison don't drag Harris along whereever they go (despite his injury history) because they're sentimental, but because they know linemen. Smart money says if Clady were healthy people would be saying he's washed up now, too, but the real question in my mind is what Paradis and Sambrailo will be.

That, and how long it'll take our coaches to get our line in shape. The good news is they were smart enough not to try turning Foxs rejects into starters, but draft picks and FA money are finite, so they can only do so much so fast. Cross your fingers it's fast enough for Manning, because Os is about as much an unknown as Paradis, and if he's not the answer, it's REALLY unknown who is.

SR
09-23-2015, 06:14 AM
Did you see Gore's numbers last night? :laugh:

Yeah. He was terrible. So was the rest of the team. If the '97 and '98 Broncos were as bad as the 2015 Colts, TD would be a nobody.

Northman
09-23-2015, 07:10 AM
Yeah. He was terrible. So was the rest of the team. If the '97 and '98 Broncos were as bad as the 2015 Colts, TD would be a nobody.

So then we are in total agreement about my original post that Gore has been less than impressive and it wouldnt hurt for them to try to bring in Ball right?

SR
09-23-2015, 07:59 AM
So then we are in total agreement about my original post that Gore has been less than impressive and it wouldnt hurt for them to try to bring in Ball right?

Not at all. You can't ignore Frank Gore's entire body of work and just assume that he's washed up and should be replaced. Gore is a stud. Aside from his weird goal line fumble the other night he didn't have a terrible game considering the struggles of the entire team. And again, Indy was completely unable to establish any kind of offensive rhythm. Gore isn't the problem, just like CJ isn't the problem.

Northman
09-23-2015, 09:00 AM
Not at all. You can't ignore Frank Gore's entire body of work and just assume that he's washed up and should be replaced. Gore is a stud. Aside from his weird goal line fumble the other night he didn't have a terrible game considering the struggles of the entire team. And again, Indy was completely unable to establish any kind of offensive rhythm. Gore isn't the problem, just like CJ isn't the problem.

Well, i think you read my initial statement incorrectly then. I never said Gore was done as a player, only that he was unimpressive thus far. Whether or not Ball could actually help the Colts is anyone's guess but i wasnt calling for Gore to be cut, only that he has struggled thus far. I know this because he is on my fantasy team. lmao

SR
09-23-2015, 09:50 AM
Well, i think you read my initial statement incorrectly then. I never said Gore was done as a player, only that he was unimpressive thus far. Whether or not Ball could actually help the Colts is anyone's guess but i wasnt calling for Gore to be cut, only that he has struggled thus far. I know this because he is on my fantasy team. lmao

He's on my team in my money league too. :(

Your initial comment about TD having a good game against GB in the super bowl after Gore struggling against Buffalo was what threw me.

Ravage!!!
09-23-2015, 10:37 AM
Well, i think you read my initial statement incorrectly then. I never said Gore was done as a player, only that he was unimpressive thus far. Whether or not Ball could actually help the Colts is anyone's guess but i wasnt calling for Gore to be cut, only that he has struggled thus far. I know this because he is on my fantasy team. lmao

But is it Gore struggling, or the entire offense..thus Gore is along for that ride. I don't think Ball helps that run game at all.

Northman
09-23-2015, 11:16 AM
But is it Gore struggling, or the entire offense..thus Gore is along for that ride. I don't think Ball helps that run game at all.

Probably a little of both.

Its obvious the Colts offense is struggling (especially with Luck having 4 TO's to his name last week) but i think Gore is also losing a step which makes sense, he has been a battering ram for a while when he was in SF. Again, Ball may not help but sometimes a change of scenery does a player good. I think people really took my "unimpressive" comment a little to seriously. That comment was never meant to kickstart a huge debate about Gore's talents as its still early in the season.

TXBRONC
09-23-2015, 11:28 AM
Not at all. You can't ignore Frank Gore's entire body of work and just assume that he's washed up and should be replaced. Gore is a stud. Aside from his weird goal line fumble the other night he didn't have a terrible game considering the struggles of the entire team. And again, Indy was completely unable to establish any kind of offensive rhythm. Gore isn't the problem, just like CJ isn't the problem.

Granted he may not be washed up but I would be leery of him being on the Broncos because of how much mileage he has on his body.