Broncos 2015 Running Game

[Dapper Dan]

Where is it?




Through 2 games:

Hillman - 21 carries for 75 yards (3.6 ypc)
Anderson - 24 carries for 56 yards (2.3 ypc)

[wayninja]

Don't ignore the fact that we've played 2 very good defenses, probably top 10 or better. Sample size is important.

We have another decent defense in week 3, then...evaluate again.

[Dapper Dan]

Don't ignore the fact that we've played 2 very good defenses, probably top 10 or better. Sample size is important.

We have another decent defense in week 3, then...evaluate again.

Well we are 1/8th of the way into the season. We thought the running game would be our strongest part of the team. I understand if we were doing somewhat average or below average, but I'm a little surprised we haven't done much better. I thought the running game, or lack of, would be a little bigger story. Hillman and CJ have combined for about 125 yards in 2 games. I'd have thought one guy would have at least that.

I'm sure next we we will only be 3 weeks into the season and it won't matter.

[Dapper Dan]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/position/defense/year/2014

According to that, Detroit had the number 1 rush defense last season. We were 2nd, Baltimore 4th, and KC 28th. So next week may not go so well.

[wayninja]

Well we are 1/8th of the way into the season. We thought the running game would be our strongest part of the team. I understand if we were doing somewhat average or below average, but I'm a little surprised we haven't done much better. I thought the running game, or lack of, would be a little bigger story. Hillman and CJ have combined for about 125 yards in 2 games. I'd have thought one guy would have at least that.

I'm sure next we we will only be 3 weeks into the season and it won't matter.

Well, again. 2 games so far, 2 statistically/projected very good defenses. You have to temper your expectations with the situation. Once we've had a larger sample size, a conclusion may be easier to draw...

[Timmy!]

Its a big concern. This 2nd and 9 1/2 or worse shit ain't gonna fly. Frankly, its on the offensive line, and I figured it was gonna take time. That said, and wayninja said, those were two pretty good defenses......but its gotta get better..... and it will.

[Canmore]

Well, again. 2 games so far, 2 statistically/projected very good defenses. You have to temper your expectations with the situation. Once we've had a larger sample size, a conclusion may be easier to draw...

My conclusion at this point is we aren't getting the job done. That was easy.

[wayninja]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/position/defense/year/2014

According to that, Detroit had the number 1 rush defense last season. We were 2nd, Baltimore 4th, and KC 28th. So next week may not go so well.

Last season is a bit misleading, KC was ranked number 10 coming into this game against the rush. You could see in this game and the houston game that their Oline is good. Even taking numbers out of it, their Oline is good.

Same with Balitmore. Most likely, same with Detroit. After that, teams aren't NEARLY as solid. I want to see some games against those guys before I judge.

[wayninja]

My conclusion at this point is we aren't getting the job done. That was easy.

2-0. I disagree.

[Dapper Dan]

Last season is a bit misleading, KC was ranked number 10 coming into this game against the rush. You could see in this game and the houston game that their Oline is good. Even taking numbers out of it, their Oline is good.

Same with Balitmore. Most likely, same with Detroit. After that, teams aren't NEARLY as solid. I want to see some games against those guys before I judge.

That's fine if you want to wait and see. I guess there's not much for you to say then.

Anyone else want to talk?

[wayninja]

Its a big concern. This 2nd and 9 1/2 or worse shit ain't gonna fly. Frankly, its on the offensive line, and I figured it was gonna take time. That said, and wayninja said, those were two pretty good defenses......but its gotta get better..... and it will.

We don't need to be a top 5 rushing team. Just enough to keep defenses honest is fine. I admit we aren't there yet. But I would also argue that there's not only reasons for that, but also reasons to think that the numbers currently are skewed against us and that as the season goes on, a different story will emerge.

[wayninja]

That's fine if you want to wait and see. I guess there's not much for you to say then.

Lol. As opposed to snapping to a judgment in week 2? By all means, proceed!

[Timmy!]

We don't need to be a top 5 rushing team. Just enough to keep defenses honest is fine. I admit we aren't there yet. But I would also argue that there's not only reasons for that, but also reasons to think that the numbers currently are skewed against us and that as the season goes on, a different story will emerge.

I have broncos backs in a couple FF leagues. It HAS to get better.....and it will. The Oline has two rookies and an still out of football shape Mathis.

[Dapper Dan]

Lol. As opposed to snapping to a judgment in week 2? By all means, proceed!

You've already said you disagreed and we should wait and see. I'm not sure what else you have to add to the discussion.

[wayninja]

You've already said you disagreed and we should wait and see. I'm not sure what else you have to add to the discussion.

And you've already disagreed with and/or dismissed me. Apply your own ridiculous and arbitrary forum rules and ****.

[Dapper Dan]

And you've already disagreed with and/or dismissed me. Apply your own ridiculous and arbitrary forum rules and ****.

No rules. I didn't say you couldn't post. You're sounding like your signature guy looks. I was just hoping you'd add more to the conversation instead of saying over and over that it's only 2 games. Use some stats. Use something. I thought people were overreacting about Peyton Manning, so I stayed out of the discussion because I wanted to wait and see. You can do whatever you like. It's a free forum.

[wayninja]

No rules. I didn't say you couldn't post. You're sounding like your signature guy looks. I was just hoping you'd add more to the conversation instead of saying over and over that it's only 2 games. Use some stats. Use something. I thought people were overreacting about Peyton Manning, so I stayed out of the discussion because I wanted to wait and see. You can do whatever you like. It's a free forum.

Hey, thanks for letting me post instead of simply saying that I have nothing more to add, while adding nothing. I appreciate it!

At 2am on a weekday, I'm sure you'll get a lot of traffic soon!


That's fine if you want to wait and see. I guess there's not much for you to say then.

Anyone else want to talk?


You've already said you disagreed and we should wait and see. I'm not sure what else you have to add to the discussion.

It's a ******* forum Dan. People will talk when they want to. Just FYI.

[Dapper Dan]

I have broncos backs in a couple FF leagues. It HAS to get better.....and it will. The Oline has two rookies and an still out of football shape Mathis.

Good point. I remember when we signed Mathis I was worried that he wouldn't get time to gel with the rest of the guys. I guess they will have some growing pains for a bit. Luckily, they have time to improve because I really think we will need them in the last 8 games and the playoffs.

One of the things about the old Kubiak/Shanahan plug and play running games is that they plugged in any back and go production, but they kept the same OL guys for the longest time.

[CrazyHorse]

I wasn't paying close enough attention but did we ever utilize a full back? I think we could have success running with a full back in 2 TE sets if we have to.

[Rick]

I think it is as I have mentioned before, teams are crowding close to the line, cutting off short passing routes, and taking down RBs as they attack Manning, daring Manning to beat them long and for a young OL to block them.

Hence, 58% passing, 7 sacks, low YPC.

[Dapper Dan]

I think it is as I have mentioned before, teams are crowding close to the line, cutting off short passing routes, and taking down RBs as they attack Manning, daring Manning to beat them long and for a young OL to block them.

Hence, 58% passing, 7 sacks, low YPC.

I noticed the DBs get more physical and don't get flagged. Which they probably shouldn't be flagged anyway. Our pick plays and screens don't work as well as they used to.

[Dapper Dan]

I wasn't paying close enough attention but did we ever utilize a full back? I think we could have success running with a full back in 2 TE sets if we have to.

I missed nearly all of the first 3 quarters and the first game. Anyone know the answer to this?

[Northman]

Don't ignore the fact that we've played 2 very good defenses, probably top 10 or better. Sample size is important.

We have another decent defense in week 3, then...evaluate again.

Actually KC's defense was ranked 25th coming into last nights game.

[Dapper Dan]

Actually KC's defense was ranked 25th coming into last nights game.

Yeah, but I think he meant rush defense. They held some guy named Blue to low yardage. They must not have been worried about Mallet or the other guy beating them by throwing.

[CoachChaz]

Actually KC's defense was ranked 25th coming into last nights game.

But they finished top 10 last year and have Johnson and Berry back. They're a good defense...period.

The run game is a reflection of the OL. C.J. didnt suddenly forget how to run over the off-season. The OL just needs time to gel and adjust...as does Manning. I think the new offensive scheme is a change for a lot of players and it can only get better from here.

In two weeks we've faced 2 very good defenses and got through the pass rush combos of Suggs/Dumervil/Upshaw and Houston/Hali. 2 victories and Manning isnt dead. We wont face combos like that again all season until we play KC again.

I think we'll be just fine.

[Dapper Dan]

Detroit had the number one rush defense last year. I'm not sure how.

[Rick]

Detroit had the number one rush defense last year. I'm not sure how.

This guy.

7801

[CoachChaz]

Detroit had the number one rush defense last year. I'm not sure how.

They had the #2 overall defense last year...they were good. And will likely be good again this year.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Baltimore and Kansas City both sold out to stop the ZBS while daring Manning to beat them.

[SR]

Actually KC's defense was ranked 25th coming into last nights game.

Don't let that fool you. KC has a damn good defense.

[VonDoom]

Detroit had the number one rush defense last year. I'm not sure how.

Suh and Fairly. Those guys aren't there anymore. I imagine they will be easier to run against this year, but there's not a lot of statistical evidence yet. Just like KC's run defense was their weakest aspect last year. But it's a different year, so maybe they're better.

Regardless, the run game is an issue right now. I'm glad they have ten days to work on this. The short turnaround at KC didn't really allow them to explore and change anything. I'm sure they'll be studying film of both of these games and try to come up with something.

[Dapper Dan]

Suh and Fairly. Those guys aren't there anymore. I imagine they will be easier to run against this year, but there's not a lot of statistical evidence yet. Just like KC's run defense was their weakest aspect last year. But it's a different year, so maybe they're better.

Regardless, the run game is an issue right now. I'm glad they have ten days to work on this. The short turnaround at KC didn't really allow them to explore and change anything. I'm sure they'll be studying film of both of these games and try to come up with something.

True. I hope we can take advantage of this extra time. So our OL really has not played 2 weeks together. It was more like 1.5

[VonDoom]

True. I hope we can take advantage of this extra time. So our OL really has not played 2 weeks together. It was more like 1.5

Right, I like the way you put that. Not having a full week to practice was a disadvantage when we had stuff we had to correct. The fact that we won that game was incredible. Now we can sit back and take a look at where we are while everyone else is beating each other up this weekend.

[CoachChaz]

Seeing how Detroit does this week will be a good indication as they face Minnesota and AP.

[Dapper Dan]

Seeing how Detroit does this week will be a good indication as they face Minnesota and AP.

AP seemed to suck it up last week but apparently he always does against the Niners

[blamkin86]

Houston (w/o Foster) rushing against KC Sunday:



Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
A. Blue 9 42 0 11
J. Grimes 6 28 0 21
C. Polk 5 22 0 13
R. Mallett 1 6 0 6


Denver vs KC last night:



Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
R. Hillman 9 34 0 16
C. Anderson 12 27 0 14
E. Sanders 1 0 0 0


From here:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015091700/2015/REG2/broncos@chiefs#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000 000533129&tab=analyze

and here:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015091700/2015/REG2/broncos@chiefs#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000 000533129&tab=analyze

[G_Money]

There are no holes, and we've only gone outside the tackles a couple of times (which also doesn't work especially well if the corners and LBs are playing up on the LOS because we're only throwing the ball three yards downfield).

If that last Manning drive had been in the third quarter instead of the last minutes of the game, we might have seen better running because guys would be backing off the line to get a bit of space and avoid getting burned.

The OL doesn't know what they're doing. Mathis never played a pre-season game with any of his teammates, and NONE of these lineman played together prior to OTAs. It's a new blocking scheme and offense to boot, so even Paradis getting some experience with what Peyton wants only helps him and Vasquez when Peyton is running the "old" offense out of the shotgun.

The rookies have to learn two offenses: Kubiak's zone blocking under-center one and Manning's shotgun ultra-pass Ferrari offense. They have to figure out where their teammates are gonna be, because the ZBS we run requires 5 and 6 guys to work like one. Under Shanahan the number of rookie starters along the line were rare, and we would sit guys for half a season (or a whole season) to let them get the hang of it.

I don't expect us to iron out the kinks along the line for a few more weeks yet. We get a break facing the Browns and Raiders shortly, so if we can get through the Lions and the Vikings we'll have a shot to find that gel and apply liberally.

Right now we're getting NO push up front, we can't pass block when Manning is under center instead of in the shotgun, and we're blowing every 2nd or 3rd assignment. We can't run the stretch when even man-blocking in the run game is a slaughter on our side. It's UGLY. But there was no real practice time with the short week to clean up the Week One issues. Now we have 10 days to watch film, figure out where to shore things up, and move forward. (Aside: where were our "blocking" TEs to help with this mess? Where was the heavy package? C'mon Kubes, get to work...)

I would like to see a couple more pitches to Hillman to get him in space, some swing passes and screens as we let players come to Manning with the idea that we've blown more assignments.

But I think perfecting our short-yardage blocking will be a season-long process. We need it right, but that won't happen immediately. Luckily we're 2-0 with two amazing defensive performances, when we could easily be 0-2. That gives us a little breathing room as we perfect what we're doing.

Or at least what we PLAN to do - what we ARE doing is pathetic. I look forward to crawling back up the hill to merely inconsistent and overmatched next week against Detroit.

[TXBRONC]

Don't ignore the fact that we've played 2 very good defenses, probably top 10 or better. Sample size is important.

We have another decent defense in week 3, then...evaluate again.

It shouldn't be surprise it's tough sledding these first couple of weeks.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Houston (w/o Foster) rushing against KC Sunday:



Denver vs KC last night:



From here:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015091700/2015/REG2/broncos@chiefs#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000 000533129&tab=analyze

and here:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015091700/2015/REG2/broncos@chiefs#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000 000533129&tab=analyze

No bueno

[NightTerror218]

I noticed that defenses have been stacking box a little in both games. They are bringing down the SD in the box. Berry was in there a lot and also taking out the crossing routes and short dump offs over the middle on play action fakes.

Also two amazing front 7 in last 2 games.

[I Eat Staples]

I don't know why people are surprised. The only reason to think we would have a good running game is that Kubiak is our coach.

Anderson is a cool story and all, but how many of us were genuinely convinced he was the real deal? Hillman has shown flashes, but that's it. Put those guys behind an O-Line that most people expected to be bad, and this is the result that should have been expected.

Hopefully it will improve if/when the O-line improves, but I'm not super optimistic about our running game.

[Dapper Dan]

I'm still hoping for improvement.

It's a good thing our run defense doesn't allow much more than than our offense puts out.

[Joel]

If found, please return to Dove Valley, CO, c/o Peyton Manning, who desperately needs it to distract defenders from bludgeoning him with his own "linemen."

[Dapper Dan]

Ronnie Hillman is pretty awesome.

[NightTerror218]

Ronnie Hillman is pretty awesome.

I think he is doing better because OL is not making huge holes and he is quick enough to get through to small ones