The Good and the Bad: Week 2

[BroncoWave]

What a crazy game. Here are my thoughts off the top of my head:

Good:

Manning. Pretty hard to imagine putting him in this column after the first quarter, but he showed up big tonight. Still missed more throws than I would like, but he was clutch when it mattered. I would be happy to be wrong about him being done.

Pass rush. Dirty again. Can't even name a single player here because they were all great.

Pass D. Ballhawking and making tackles all night. Was a beauty to see.

McManus. Another long bomb FG. Dude is money now.

DT/Sanders. DT made some clutch, beastly catches at the end, and Sanders was clutch as always on 3rd down.

Bad:

O-line. I have a feeling they will be a fixture in this column this year. Just a trainwreck.

Running game. This probably has to do with the o-line, but they did nothing tonight.

Run D. As awesome as the D was, they got a bit gashed in the running game. It is Jamal Charles though, so not the worse crime.

Bruton. Rough night for him, glad it didn't cost us.

Daniels. This guy is not good anymore. Ran bad routes, had the laughable stiffarm, etc

[wayninja]

I would say the defense maybe being TOO aggressive may be a bad thing. Being too aggressive cost us several big plays. Of problems you can have, though, this isn't really that bad of one.

[underrated29]

Despitemanningdrd I sm not sure I would put him in good column. He can only. Run his offense, but he can run it like a boss!



The online sucks gay sloth testicles. It's more than bad. I still am Adamant that the online will get it by game 4. Til then it's essay worse than ugly.

[BroncoWave]

I would say the defense maybe being TOO aggressive may be a bad thing. Being too aggressive cost us several big plays. Of problems you can have, though, this isn't really that bad of one.

When you're as hype as our D you just have to take the good with the bad!

[BroncoWave]

The online sucks gay sloth testicles.

You have a way with words.

[NightTerror218]

Run D will get so much better with wolfe.

[TXBRONC]

Jamal Charles has always made life difficult for the Broncos but while he did gash the Broncos for 125 yards rushing the defense still made him cough up the ball twice.

[Ravage!!!]

Despitemanningdrd I sm not sure I would put him in good column. He can only. Run his offense, but he can run it like a boss!



The online sucks gay sloth testicles. It's more than bad. I still am Adamant that the online will get it by game 4. Til then it's essay worse than ugly.

he can only r un the most prolific offense in NFL history, and that's it at 39?!?!?! N oooooo... say it aint so!!

[Ravage!!!]

The Good; The offense when not trying to run Kubiak's offense. McManus (funny people were bitching about him being the kicker), and of course...the defense, especially th epass rush. Being able to get pressure with just 4, is awesome.

The bad: The OL, the running game, CJ Anderson, Kubiak's offense, the penalties

[broncobryce]

This year is going to be interesting, because we will probably go back to last year's offense with this year's defense. And probably lose in the AFC championship game. Or less. But then the fun really begins.

[broncobryce]

The Good; The offense when not trying to run Kubiak's offense. McManus (funny people were bitching about him being the kicker), and of course...the defense, especially th epass rush. Being able to get pressure with just 4, is awesome.

The bad: The OL, the running game, CJ Anderson, Kubiak's offense, the penalties

Cuz Manning can't run it. But Brock would look great with this offense. We'll have to wait to find out for sure.

[Simple Jaded]

Bruton is ballin, you must be talking about Ward.

[Simple Jaded]

Cuz Manning can't run it. But Brock would look great with this offense. We'll have to wait to find out for sure.

Go away.

[CrazyHorse]

This year is going to be interesting, because we will probably go back to last year's offense with this year's defense. And probably lose in the AFC championship game. Or less. But then the fun really begins.

Who do you have us losing to in the AFC Championship game? I can't see it being the Colts or Patriots at this moment.

[broncobryce]

Go away.

I'm back. And you love it.

[wayninja]

Despitemanningdrd I sm not sure I would put him in good column. He can only. Run his offense, but he can run it like a boss!



The online sucks gay sloth testicles. It's more than bad. I still am Adamant that the online will get it by game 4. Til then it's essay worse than ugly.

Oh man, wait til you read this sober!

[Ravage!!!]

Cuz Manning can't run it. But Brock would look great with this offense. We'll have to wait to find out for sure.

thats just hyperbole and guesswork.

[G_Money]

This year is going to be interesting, because we will probably go back to last year's offense with this year's defense. And probably lose in the AFC championship game. Or less. But then the fun really begins.

We're gonna spend all year figuring out how to block well enough to convert 3rd and ones on the ground, while Manning airs it out the rest of the time and the D crushes skulls like an Uruk Hai army on a rampage through farming territory.

There are worse problems to have. We're 2-0 with 10 days to prepare for the Lions, with a couple cupcakes on the horizon.

Could definitely be worse. :cool:

[broncobryce]

Who do you have us losing to in the AFC Championship game? I can't see it being the Colts or Patriots at this moment.

I don't know yet, but this finesse offense can't go all the way, I don't think. (like the last few years)

[G_Money]

Who do you have us losing to in the AFC Championship game? I can't see it being the Colts or Patriots at this moment.

The Titans, obviously.

[TXBRONC]

The Titans, obviously.

Yep Titans all the way.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm back. And you love it.

Yeah, so sorry that Manning keeps ruining your Tim Tebow pity party.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't know yet, but this finesse offense can't go all the way, I don't think. (like the last few years)

They went to the Super Bowl just two years ago. DId you stop watching after Tebow left town?

[tomjonesrocks]

Certainly agree about Daniels.

This team needs a legit receiving TE now. Yesterday.

[broncobryce]

Yeah, so sorry that Manning keeps ruining your Tim Tebow pity party.

You keep talking about Tebow, I keep talking about Osweiler. I've moved on, brother, ask yourself if you have.

[Ravage!!!]

You keep talking about Tebow, I keep talking about Osweiler. I've moved on, brother, ask yourself if you have.

Why would anyone move on to a back-up that hasn't seen the field yet??? That doesn't make sense, and is pretty ignorant.... brother.

[Slick]

You keep talking about Tebow, I keep talking about Osweiler. I've moved on, brother, ask yourself if you have.

Jaded never misses a chance to shit on Tebow. That effing thread will never die.

Be back tomorrow. Have a good night guys and Carol.

[broncobryce]

They went to the Super Bowl just two years ago. DId you stop watching after Tebow left town?

And got destroyed. I'm convinced we will not win a superbowl with the finesse offense. Obviously so is Elway, which is why he brought in Kubiak.

[wayninja]

Osweiler? If it comes to it, I'm confident Elway will do the right thing and re-sign Tebow.

[broncobryce]

Why would anyone move on to a back-up that hasn't seen the field yet??? That doesn't make sense, and is pretty ignorant.... brother.

Because he can't run the offense we hired the head coach to run. But maybe Elway figured if he can't, we can go back to Manning's offense while getting Brock ready for next year. I don't know. I know this is Brock's last year under contract, though.

[broncobryce]

Osweiler? If it comes to it, I'm confident Elway will do the right thing and re-sign Tebow.

Never heard of him

[underrated29]

Oh man, wait til you read this sober!



I red-read it drunk and I'm not sure wtf I was saying but there is a good solid. Point in there somewhere! Like a magazine c eye. If you have the magic eye you will see the picture. If you don't you will see nothing.

#itsASchoonerNofASailboat

[wayninja]

I red-read it drunk and I'm not sure wtf I was saying but there is a good solid. Point in there somewhere! Like a magazine c eye. If you have the magic eye you will see the picture. If you don't you will see nothing.

#itsASchoonerNofASailboat

Good solid stuff. Like a magazine, c eye even. And don't worry, I have the magic eye.

[I Eat Staples]

I don't know why coaches are so stubborn and don't adapt their system to their personnel. Manning is clearly more comfortable in the shotgun and running the no huddle. Let Manning be Manning. The running game was much better from the shotgun too. Did we even gain more than 2 yards on any run from under center?

[I Eat Staples]

I don't know yet, but this finesse offense can't go all the way, I don't think. (like the last few years)

Why do you think an offense that scores very few points is better than an offense that scores a lot of points?

[Simple Jaded]

Jaded never misses a chance to shit on Tebow. That effing thread will never die.

Be back tomorrow. Have a good night guys and Carol.

Actually, shitting on his stupid ******* fans is what I'm addicted to, Slick, and if you go back and look you'll see that thread goes on without any help from me.

And you're not my brother Bryce.

[wayninja]

I would say the defense maybe being TOO aggressive may be a bad thing. Being too aggressive cost us several big plays. Of problems you can have, though, this isn't really that bad of one.

I don't want to brag or anything, but this post got me a coveted NTL high five. So. Pretty, pretty.... pretty good.

[MOtorboat]

That second half was really good on both sides of the ball, sans a few plays on defense. The first half looked a lot like last week.

I hate the wide receiver depth and the tight ends just aren't that good in the passing game. Green got involved and that's good, and they tried to get Norwood and Caldwell involved but no one is scared of them and Thomas got bracketed all game. He was in triple coverage on that last drive and just made a couple of good catches. The good news is that leaves Sanders one on one and it turned into the tying touchdown.

Somebody who is not Sanders has to step up and take that pressure off of Thomas. That's when the big pass plays will come. Manning looks OK. Not great, but OK. He did make some throws that assures me he isn't done. That third down pass to Sanders in the first quarter down near Denver's own endzone can only be made by a handful of guys. He's still one.

The offensive line is bad.

The defense is just plain nasty.

[wayninja]

That second half was really good on both sides of the ball, sans a few plays on defense. The first half looked a lot like last week.

I hate the wide receiver depth and the tight ends just aren't that good in the passing game. Green got involved and that's good, and they tried to get Norwood and Caldwell involved but no one is scared of them and Thomas got bracketed all game. He was in triple coverage on that last drive and just made a couple of good catches. The good news is that leaves Sanders one on one and it turned into the tying touchdown.

Somebody who is not Sanders has to step up and take that pressure off of Thomas. That's when the big pass plays will come. Manning looks OK. Not great, but OK. He did make some throws that assures me he isn't done. That third down pass to Sanders in the first quarter down near Denver's own endzone can only be made by a handful of guys. He's still one.

The offensive line is bad.

The defense is just plain nasty.

Pretty tight analysis Mo.

[Simple Jaded]

Latimer is flirting with Marcus Nash level bust if he can't beat out Caldwell and Norwood.

[MOtorboat]

Penalties. Too many penalties. That helped put Denver in a hole. And a really shitastic pass from Manning. I was this close [holds out hands] to going full Monty and start screaming for Osweiler after that pick-six.

[OrangeHoof]

I just loving pulling the rug out from under the Queefs and their fans. So delicious.

We're not only 2-0 but we have that #@%$ Thursday night $%#@ off our schedule the rest of the year. When you have some old dudes like Manning and Ware, those four-day weeks are killer. Now they can rest up knowing they won't have to do that &%$# again the rest of the year.

Okay, time to start making adjustments. Ten days to do it. The OL needs to figure out what they are doing. I was amazed that Manning made so many great plays under pressure but I hated to see him have to make so many throws under pressure.

The defense is fantastic but even they have room to improve. I think Ward had an off night and will get better.

[MOtorboat]

The pick-six was absolutely a product of Thomas being bracketed. Safety came down and jumped the route.

Plus it was a really shitty throw.

[MOtorboat]

Whoops. Saw the wrong thing. Peters stepped underneath for the pick. Still he could step underneath because the safety was right there.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

DT Ballin' like a boss~

[Valar Morghulis]

Ware looks 5 years younger than he did last year, not to mention straight up nasty.

[wayninja]

My biggest complaint about week 2 isn't the offense, surprisingly. It's the number of personal foul penalties. IMHO, those are worse than the yardage lost as they speak to the integrity and discipline of a team. Way too many.

[Northman]

I red-read it drunk and I'm not sure wtf I was saying but there is a good solid. Point in there somewhere! Like a magazine c eye. If you have the magic eye you will see the picture. If you don't you will see nothing.

#itsASchoonerNofASailboat

You are such a goober drunk or sober.... lmao

[Northman]

That second half was really good on both sides of the ball, sans a few plays on defense. The first half looked a lot like last week.

I hate the wide receiver depth and the tight ends just aren't that good in the passing game. Green got involved and that's good, and they tried to get Norwood and Caldwell involved but no one is scared of them and Thomas got bracketed all game. He was in triple coverage on that last drive and just made a couple of good catches. The good news is that leaves Sanders one on one and it turned into the tying touchdown.

Somebody who is not Sanders has to step up and take that pressure off of Thomas. That's when the big pass plays will come. Manning looks OK. Not great, but OK. He did make some throws that assures me he isn't done. That third down pass to Sanders in the first quarter down near Denver's own endzone can only be made by a handful of guys. He's still one.

The offensive line is bad.

The defense is just plain nasty.


Ironically i think that is why Manning started trying to target Norwood. I think he was trying to take advantage of their nickel DB but it just wasnt happening for various reasons. Eventually he had to rely on his two best guys in the end.

[BigDaddyBronco]

The Good:
Manning being Manning in the shotgun
Getting some turnovers!!!! How many years have we been bad at causing turnovers. The only reason we beat a better Chiefs team.
Great pass rush again. Great play by the CB's. Great movement by the ILB's.
DT and Sanders!!! They are flat ballin!
McManus's leg. Not just on the 50+ yard FG's, but the kickoffs as well. Plain old beast!

The Bad:
OLine is really struggling. I do believe it will get better.
The other WR's. Someone has to step up or we are in trouble if either Sanders or DT gets dinged up.
Safety coverage on the TE's. Both Ward and Bruton got burned several times last night.
The RB's, not just the OLine was bad, CJ's vision was bad last night as well.

The Ugly:
Manning running Kubiak's offense under center. Time to put it away this year unless Manning gets hurt and Oz starts. At this stage I don't think Manning has the mobility to play that style.
The dumb personal foul penalties. Von's was the worst. You just have to know that Smith is going to flop if you touch him. DLine being overly aggressive on pursuit.? I can live with 1 call, but after you see Kilgo do it, you have to lay off Malik.

[BroncoWave]

The Malik personal foul was just boneheaded. It's one thing to be aggressive, but that play was just stupid. I guess some personal fouls come with an aggressive style of defense, though.

[CoachChaz]

Malik is usually good for a few of those a year, so it's expected.

I wont comment on the OL as I think it's a work in progress and can only get better...and will.

But, when we face a team with a good TE...I dont want to see Bruton in man coverage against them. Please leave it to Ward or a LB. Bruton's coverage was abysmal and his angles after the catch were even worse. If he's in...let Marshall or Trvathan cover the TE, please.

[SR]

Malik is usually good for a few of those a year, so it's expected. I wont comment on the OL as I think it's a work in progress and can only get better...and will. But, when we face a team with a good TE...I dont want to see Bruton in man coverage against them. Please leave it to Ward or a LB. Bruton's coverage was abysmal and his angles after the catch were even worse. If he's in...let Marshall or Trvathan cover the TE, please.

Bruton may as well have lit himself on fire last night. He had an awful game.

Malik and Kilgo both had identical stupid personal foul penalties in the game. The first half was rough but they made good adjustments at half time. It'll be interesting to see how Denver comes out against Detroit next week.

[TXBRONC]

I red-read it drunk and I'm not sure wtf I was saying but there is a good solid. Point in there somewhere! Like a magazine c eye. If you have the magic eye you will see the picture. If you don't you will see nothing.

#itsASchoonerNofASailboat

You did shot game with your Russian girlfriend and she beat you didn't she?

[VonDoom]

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, so I apologize if these are repeats (I'm sure many of them are).

Before that last drive, I was actually more disappointed in Manning this week than I was last week. He was running the "Manning offense" for most of this game and was still way off on some throws. If he had been picked at 14-0, this game is over. The O-line (more on them in a minute) actually started picking up blitzes and giving him time, so I can't even blame them for pass protection after the first quarter. The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that THIS might be the Manning we get on a regular basis. Not last week's Manning, but this one - can still make huge, clutch throws to win a game but will also miss badly now and have some terrible drives. That might be the 39 year old version. We can live with that, if ...

The o-line needs to get it together in the run game. Part of the problem last night (and last week) was being in 2nd and 3rd and long constantly. This offense was supposed to be able to run the ball. Remember the patched together, mix and match line we had last year? CJ was still the most productive back in football down the stretch. I don't see any of that this year. I'm not going to say it's not fixable - it's only week two. But they have to seriously go over the film from these games and figure something out.

Do we run the Kubiak offense or the Manning offense from here on out? This new system was supposed to take the pressure off Manning and hopefully keep him fresh for later in the year. Instead, he had to put the offense on his shoulders and carry them last night. It will be interesting to see.

The defense ... what can you say? They are a terror collectively. I would worry about being TOO aggressive in some cases; the personal fouls were ridiculous. Malik often has those but I don't know what Von was doing on that one play. Both Ward and Bruton tried to jump routes that led to big gains. I'm not even upset about Ware over committing on Davis' run at the end, but I worry that teams will start to take advantage of us being too aggressive to try to burn us, because nothing else seems to be working.

This probably sounds too negative, but I'm actually feeling tremendous today. I knew going into this game that it would be a hard game to win and would still not show us a complete picture of this team. I'm ecstatic to be 2-0 at this point. Football Sunday is going to be so much better this weekend with no pressure! For a work in progress, we're still pretty good, eh?

[GEM]

My biggest complaint about week 2 isn't the offense, surprisingly. It's the number of personal foul penalties. IMHO, those are worse than the yardage lost as they speak to the integrity and discipline of a team. Way too many.

I agree completely, but I think they were amped up because of surroundings and feeling like they had to overcome the offense deficiencies. Week 2 in Arrowhead. If it continues, I'll be worried. Right now, I'll chop it up to being chippy. Though 3 15 yarders on one drive is pretty ridiculous.

[GEM]

Malik is usually good for a few of those a year, so it's expected.

I wont comment on the OL as I think it's a work in progress and can only get better...and will.

But, when we face a team with a good TE...I dont want to see Bruton in man coverage against them. Please leave it to Ward or a LB. Bruton's coverage was abysmal and his angles after the catch were even worse. If he's in...let Marshall or Trvathan cover the TE, please.

True on Malik, my dad and I were saying Malik, step back, step back, **** Malik! :laugh: He gets a little overkill.

[TXBRONC]

I agree completely, but I think they were amped up because of surroundings and feeling like they had to overcome the offense deficiencies. Week 2 in Arrowhead. If it continues, I'll be worried. Right now, I'll chop it up to being chippy. Though 3 15 yarders on one drive is pretty ridiculous.

Yeah they got to clean that up.

[GEM]

Malik is usually good for a few of those a year, so it's expected.

I wont comment on the OL as I think it's a work in progress and can only get better...and will.

But, when we face a team with a good TE...I dont want to see Bruton in man coverage against them. Please leave it to Ward or a LB. Bruton's coverage was abysmal and his angles after the catch were even worse. If he's in...let Marshall or Trvathan cover the TE, please.

I wasn't sure why they continued to have the safety covering the TE. Agree on Travathan or Marshall should have been covering.

[GEM]

I watched Mathis quite a bit last night since he graded out so badly last week....he looked like a hot pile of shit last night. He was constantly getting turned sideways and a lot of the pressure came in his hole. Hope he gets better. He and Harris look to be the worst on this line. Paradis was handling double teams on many occasions last night, not too bad. Sambraillo held his own, missing a few times, but not too horrible for a rookie left tackle against a good rush from KC.

[CoachChaz]

I watched Mathis quite a bit last night since he graded out so badly last week....he looked like a hot pile of shit last night. He was constantly getting turned sideways and a lot of the pressure came in his hole. Hope he gets better. He and Harris look to be the worst on this line. Paradis was handling double teams on many occasions last night, not too bad. Sambraillo held his own, missing a few times, but not too horrible for a rookie left tackle against a good rush from KC.

Paradis seems to be the one consistent guy up front. Sambrailo needs to hold his blocks longer...he tends to get an initial shove and then quit. Mathis looks like he hasnt played in 2 years. Vasquez is up and down. Harris is a mess.

[G_Money]

Paradis was doing well, and moved well to the second level on occasion. I'm just annoyed that Paradis + 2 Pro Bowlers can't move a pencil across a table together, let alone the 300 pound men on the other side of the line to get so much as a crease.

Guess they'll be doing trust falls and drum circles this week to build comraderie or something.

[TXBRONC]

I wasn't sure why they continued to have the safety covering the TE. Agree on Travathan or Marshall should have been covering.

They're top two tight ends each four catches for 50 plus yard a piece but zero touchdowns. I was sure I was saw Trevathan and Marshall on a few occasion but maybe not.

[Ravage!!!]

Why wouldn't you have the safety on their TE?

[NightTrainLayne]

The Good:

We won at Arrowhead!!! This morning on Sirius/XM NFL, a Chiefs fan had called in. He sounded like Eeyore, totally down in the dumps. And he says, "Arrowhead is just jinxed." :D

Yes, fellow Bronco fans, our favorite team has now convinced Chiefs fans that they can't win in their own home against us, while we all know that's one of the best home-field advantages anywhere! :D :D :D :D

The Defense is so much fun to watch. Phillips looks like a 5 year-old in the toy store. Those guys are loving it.

The Bad:

If you find yourself tied with KC in Arrowhead, 0-0 in a defensive battle, on fourth and short, well within an awesome kicker's FG range. . .. You kick the freaking field goal! WTF? I appreciate that Fox never went for it, and I like taking a calculated risk here and there, but that wasn't the time or place. Take the points, ESPECIALLY AFTER A GIFT TURNOVER, and kick it back to them and make them start again at the 20 against our great defense. I really thought that call was going to come back to haunt us all game, and it nearly did.

Personal fouls. Come on guys, stay poised and in control. We gifted at least one drive to K.C. on dumb penalties.

The offensive line. I'm convinced it will get better. . .. because it can't help but get better.

[TXBRONC]

The Good:

We won at Arrowhead!!! This morning on Sirius/XM NFL, a Chiefs fan had called in. He sounded like Eeyore, totally down in the dumps. And he says, "Arrowhead is just jinxed." :D

Yes, fellow Bronco fans, our favorite team has now convinced Chiefs fans that they can't win in their own home against us, while we all know that's one of the best home-field advantages anywhere! :D :D :D :D

The Defense is so much fun to watch. Phillips looks like a 5 year-old in the toy store. Those guys are loving it.

The Bad:

If you find yourself tied with KC in Arrowhead, 0-0 in a defensive battle, on fourth and short, well within an awesome kicker's FG range. . .. You kick the freaking field goal! WTF? I appreciate that Fox never went for it, and I like taking a calculated risk here and there, but that wasn't the time or place. Take the points, ESPECIALLY AFTER A GIFT TURNOVER, and kick it back to them and make them start again at the 20 against our great defense. I really thought that call was going to come back to haunt us all game, and it nearly did.

Personal fouls. Come on guys, stay poised and in control. We gifted at least one drive to K.C. on dumb penalties.

The offensive line. I'm convinced it will get better. . .. because it can't help but get better.

Chiefs fans also think the League is rigged.

[GEM]

Why wouldn't you have the safety on their TE?

Because Bruton isn't very good at coverage? Travathon and Marshall are faster? Their passing game success was based on TE and coverage on them wasn't very good. Bruton is good at a lot of things, coverage isn't one of them. He's serviceable there. If the player is deficient, you find the players that can excel. It didn't cost us huge, but the only part of their passing offense that really worked was the TE on Bruton.

[Valar Morghulis]

i am loving Bruton, his contribution the first turnover, and similar plays more than justifies his emerging presence on the team

Also loving Juwan's contribution on ST

I tried explaining last nights game at work today - they really just dont get it!

[BigDaddyBronco]

i am loving Bruton, his contribution the first turnover, and similar plays more than justifies his emerging presence on the team

Also loving Juwan's contribution on ST

I tried explaining last nights game at work today - they really just dont get it!

That is like me trying to explain the Premier League over here. "Soccer is for pussies!"

[GEM]

i am loving Bruton, his contribution the first turnover, and similar plays more than justifies his emerging presence on the team

Also loving Juwan's contribution on ST

I tried explaining last nights game at work today - they really just dont get it!

Don't get me wrong, I love Bruton. He's just not good in coverage. He's very good at a lot of things, Stewart and Ward are just better. He can fill in for Stewart in a pinch, but you're definitely giving up on coverage with Bruton in there. He's a very opportunistic player who capitalizes on things, but one on one with a TE is not a strong suit. Love him though!

[G_Money]

Don't get me wrong, I love Bruton. He's just not good in coverage. He's very good at a lot of things, Stewart and Ward are just better. He can fill in for Stewart in a pinch, but you're definitely giving up on coverage with Bruton in there. He's a very opportunistic player who capitalizes on things, but one on one with a TE is not a strong suit. Love him though!

With Stewart's groin injury and Ward's cramping, we were kind of in a bind. Marshall has a broken screw in his foot, so having him run around after TEs all game might not be great either.

I agree, coverage isn't Bruton's strong suit, but our other options weren't great. For what we had to work with, it'll be fine. Hopefully we can keep our safeties healthy the rest of the season and Coverage Bruton won't be needed a ton.

[MOtorboat]

Malik Jackson was mid-dive when that whistle was blown. He can't levitate over the guy. I still think that was a bad call.

[Ravage!!!]

Malik Jackson was mid-dive when that whistle was blown. He can't levitate over the guy. I still think that was a bad call.

I guess that because it had been so stressed during camps and pre-season, that the players should know and be more aware. I thought it was a pretty bad call, myself.

[GEM]

With Stewart's groin injury and Ward's cramping, we were kind of in a bind. Marshall has a broken screw in his foot, so having him run around after TEs all game might not be great either.

I agree, coverage isn't Bruton's strong suit, but our other options weren't great. For what we had to work with, it'll be fine. Hopefully we can keep our safeties healthy the rest of the season and Coverage Bruton won't be needed a ton.

Explained by me saying it wasn't a huge deal, but there was issues. ;)

[GEM]

Malik Jackson was mid-dive when that whistle was blown. He can't levitate over the guy. I still think that was a bad call.

The one where they blew the whistle for false start, the defensive player couldn't pull up at that point. Not sure how differently that could have gone. Completely agree.

[G_Money]

Explained by me saying it wasn't a huge deal, but there was issues. ;)

Agreed - let's not go with Bruton on every pass-catching TE. I'd rather let Roby play the corner and Harris cover the TE if that's the case.

[GEM]

Agreed - let's not go with Bruton on every pass-catching TE. I'd rather let Roby play the corner and Harris cover the TE if that's the case.

I just love Roby! :D

[MOtorboat]

I forget who the DC was, but remember when Champ owned Gonzalez? Kelce is their best receiver. Put Talib on Kelce.

[arapaho2]

Cuz Manning can't run it. But Brock would look great with this offense. We'll have to wait to find out for sure.

brock wouldnt look better... he would have the same issues, take the snap drop back, turn around to see defender in his face

[Ravage!!!]

I agree completely, but I think they were amped up because of surroundings and feeling like they had to overcome the offense deficiencies. Week 2 in Arrowhead. If it continues, I'll be worried. Right now, I'll chop it up to being chippy. Though 3 15 yarders on one drive is pretty ridiculous.
This is how I feel. These guys were amped up in a very loud stadium. 3 in one drive was just bad, but the one onf#58 was just flat out ridiculous. It was obvious the play was over, don't hit the QB. That's a given that everyone knows. It was stupid.

[Ravage!!!]

brock wouldnt look better... he would have the same issues, take the snap drop back, turn around to see defender in his face

Don't listen to bryce, he's just a hater that comes to troll.

[Gimpygod]

We're gonna spend all year figuring out how to block well enough to convert 3rd and ones on the ground, while Manning airs it out the rest of the time and the D crushes skulls like an Uruk Hai army on a rampage through farming territory.

There are worse problems to have. We're 2-0 with 10 days to prepare for the Lions, with a couple cupcakes on the horizon.

Could definitely be worse. :cool:

The Uruk-hai are fictional characters in J. R. R. Tolkien's fictional universe of Middle-earth. They are introduced in The Lord of the Rings as an advanced breed of orcs that serve Sauron and Saruman. The first uruks appeared out of Mordor in attacks on Gondor in T.A. 2475.[wiki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD6qtc2_AQA

[NightTrainLayne]

The Uruk-hai are fictional characters in J. R. R. Tolkien's fictional universe of Middle-earth. They are introduced in The Lord of the Rings as an advanced breed of orcs that serve Sauron and Saruman. The first uruks appeared out of Mordor in attacks on Gondor in T.A. 2475.[wiki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD6qtc2_AQA

A GimpyGod sighting! Good to see you.

[BroncoJoe]

The Good:

We won at Arrowhead!!! This morning on Sirius/XM NFL, a Chiefs fan had called in. He sounded like Eeyore, totally down in the dumps. And he says, "Arrowhead is just jinxed." :D

Yes, fellow Bronco fans, our favorite team has now convinced Chiefs fans that they can't win in their own home against us, while we all know that's one of the best home-field advantages anywhere! :D :D :D :D

The Defense is so much fun to watch. Phillips looks like a 5 year-old in the toy store. Those guys are loving it.

The Bad:

If you find yourself tied with KC in Arrowhead, 0-0 in a defensive battle, on fourth and short, well within an awesome kicker's FG range. . .. You kick the freaking field goal! WTF? I appreciate that Fox never went for it, and I like taking a calculated risk here and there, but that wasn't the time or place. Take the points, ESPECIALLY AFTER A GIFT TURNOVER, and kick it back to them and make them start again at the 20 against our great defense. I really thought that call was going to come back to haunt us all game, and it nearly did.

Personal fouls. Come on guys, stay poised and in control. We gifted at least one drive to K.C. on dumb penalties.

The offensive line. I'm convinced it will get better. . .. because it can't help but get better.

We made the 1st down. Unfortunately, Manning called a timeout right before the snap. I thought it was a good call. Shows confidence in the offense.

[BroncoWave]

We made the 1st down. Unfortunately, Manning called a timeout right before the snap. I thought it was a good call. Shows confidence in the offense.

Agreed. I don't pin that on kubiak at all. He sent in a good play call and it worked. Manning flubbed it up by calling timeout.

[underrated29]

FUN FACTS:

the chefs did not convert a 3rd down all game
Peyton manning has thrown for as many tds as alex smith (23) in arrowhead stadium...LMMFAO!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Agreed. I don't pin that on kubiak at all. He sent in a good play call and it worked. Manning flubbed it up by calling timeout.

It would have been delay of game if Manning didn't call time out. The clock was at zero for over a second before the ball was snapped.

We should have kicked the fg after the timeout.

[Ravage!!!]

It would have been delay of game if Manning didn't call time out. The clock was at zero for over a second before the ball was snapped.

We should have kicked the fg after the timeout.

yeah... Not kicking the FG was a bad bad coaching decision that VERY well could have cost us the game. Bad timing on a call like that.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

yeah... Not kicking the FG was a bad bad coaching decision that VERY well could have cost us the game. Bad timing on a call like that.

I think my family got a little worried when I was yelling at the TV to kick the field goal

[tomjonesrocks]

Have there been any reports or articles that have said anything about what's going on or what the issue is with Cody Latimer?

Apparently he's dead weight after all that buildup? Confusing no reports at all seem to exist about it.

[G_Money]

Have there been any reports or articles that have said anything about what's going on or what the issue is with Cody Latimer?

Apparently he's dead weight after all that buildup? Confusing no reports at all seem to exist about it.

Why would anyone write articles about our fictitious 5th wideout? :huh: It's like writing an article about Steve, your imaginary friend from when you were 5. I'm sure Steve was a great guy/clown/purple elephant but not really print-worthy.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Have there been any reports or articles that have said anything about what's going on or what the issue is with Cody Latimer?

Apparently he's dead weight after all that buildup? Confusing no reports at all seem to exist about it.

I don't know, he was running with the ones and then he short armed that pass in the preseason that would have been a touchdown. Then he just sort of disappeared.

[BroncoNut]

Virgil Green. Julius who?

Peyton's footwork was phenomenol

[G_Money]

I don't know, he was running with the ones and then he short armed that pass in the preseason that would have been a touchdown. Then he just sort of disappeared.

Sanders came back, Norwood and Caldwell caught passes in the preseason, and Latimer got demoted to #5. Gotta run the right routes and catch the damn ball. It's annoying though: Latimer is built to be a big strong blocking WR, and would be a great bookend to DT (who is also all those things) - and it would allow Sanders to get time in the slot. I don't want him doing all his work over the middle and getting concussed again, but at least it would give us other options than our iffy TEs.

Latimer's slow development is putting a kink in that. Hopefully he can get it together as the year progresses. It would help.

[NightTerror218]

yeah... Not kicking the FG was a bad bad coaching decision that VERY well could have cost us the game. Bad timing on a call like that.

I think Kubiak was trying to get his offense going. Getting it n 4th would have been a nice pick me up.

[NightTerror218]

I don't know, he was running with the ones and then he short armed that pass in the preseason that would have been a touchdown. Then he just sort of disappeared.

We have seen players go to the dog house bedore, he may be in dog house and may come back to #3

[gregbroncs]

What a crazy game. Here are my thoughts off the top of my head:

Good:

Manning. Pretty hard to imagine putting him in this column after the first quarter, but he showed up big tonight. Still missed more throws than I would like, but he was clutch when it mattered. I would be happy to be wrong about him being done.

Pass rush. Dirty again. Can't even name a single player here because they were all great.

Pass D. Ballhawking and making tackles all night. Was a beauty to see.

McManus. Another long bomb FG. Dude is money now.

DT/Sanders. DT made some clutch, beastly catches at the end, and Sanders was clutch as always on 3rd down.

Bad:

O-line. I have a feeling they will be a fixture in this column this year. Just a trainwreck.

Running game. This probably has to do with the o-line, but they did nothing tonight.

Run D. As awesome as the D was, they got a bit gashed in the running game. It is Jamal Charles though, so not the worse crime.

Bruton. Rough night for him, glad it didn't cost us.

Daniels. This guy is not good anymore. Ran bad routes, had the laughable stiffarm, etcI can't put Manning in the good category. I won't say he deserves to be in the bad category either though. This game was a solid step towards being a decent offense but even the last drive he threw 3 balls up for grabs and Thomas made the play. He was better after half time but Manning was the same guy as last week in the 1st half.
.
This game was 100% won by the defense they turned KC over 4 times and yet we barely won the game. That doesn't happen with even a decent offense. I'm glad the offense settled in and played better in the 2nd half but it is still far from being a good offense. And Manning still looked like a below average QB in this game.

[DenBronx]

I am affraid Latimer may never be what many want him to be, a #1, #2 or even #3 WR.

Can he play TE? Lol

[underrated29]

A guy throws for 3 tds against one of the best defenses and he is still considered a below average QB.

[TXBRONC]

A guy throws for 3 tds against one of the best defenses and he is still considered a below average QB.

Btw didn't you say the Chiefs would only score 3 points in this game? :wave:

[gregbroncs]

A guy throws for 3 tds against one of the best defenses and he is still considered a below average QB.Maybe below average was a little harsh but did he look like a top 10 QB? And he threw 3 TD's But also threw a pick, and should have thrown 2 more if KC's defenders could catch at all. He also missed open receivers with no pressure on him. A team gets 5 TO's but barely won, that must mean the offense did not capitalize on those TO's and a lot of that falls deservedly on Manning, IMO. So Manning in this game was average at best.

[Cugel]

They went to the Super Bowl just two years ago. DId you stop watching after Tebow left town?

Are the Tebowites STILL jonesing for their failed loser? After he's sucked his way off 3 straight teams and washed out of the league completely twice, this season for the final time? His career is over. It's a wrap. Bust is now official.

[Cugel]

Maybe below average was a little harsh but did he look like a top 10 QB? And he threw 3 TD's But also threw a pick, and should have thrown 2 more if KC's defenders could catch at all. He also missed open receivers with no pressure on him. A team gets 5 TO's but barely won, that must mean the offense did not capitalize on those TO's and a lot of that falls deservedly on Manning, IMO. So Manning in this game was average at best.

Peyton was a tale of two QBs. When he was under center, the OL couldn't block a sunbeam and Peyton looked like he was 100.

When he was in the shot-gun, he looked like the 2012 Peyton.

He needs to be able to step into throws to get power into them. That means the OL MUST be able to block better, so Peyton will be able to make every throw. It won't take much, just a little adjustment for this OL to come together.

If they can do that, this season WILL be a Super Bowl season, because they have every element needed - ferocious defense plus powerful offense with play-makers on offense. People keep saying "Peyton's arm is a noodle."

Peyton's arm is no different than it was in 2012 or 2013. What's different is that the OL isn't pass blocking nearly as well. Peyton NEVER had a great arm and he doesn't now. He can't throw off his back foot and get any velocity on the ball like Andrew Luck or Aaron Rogers. And he has zero mobility. He needs the OL to block for him because he can't run around and get extra time to throw. He's not mobile.

Well, there's about 15-20 QBs in the league you could say the same thing about. Only they don't have Peyton's intelligence or accuracy.

So, if Peyton has to throw in a hurry because he's afraid the OL protection will break down or because there's actually a defender right in his face, then he looks bad. REALLY bad. You watch him and think "OMG! He's totally washed up." Then two plays later, he throws an absolute strike to Emmanuel Sanders and you think "there the old Peyton."

What was the difference? The OL gave him time and space to step into his throws.

What then is the essential difference between Peyton now and Peyton in 2010 before his injury? His arm never recovered it's full strength and his mobility has decreased from limited to none. But, his arm was not any stronger in 2013 when he set the all time passing record. He was just healthy all that year, and the OL played a lot better.

The biggest problem is that he's not going to stay healthy until mid-season if they don't start blocking better! At the 10:30 mark of the 4th Quarter, Evan Mathis just absolutely Ole'd his man and Peyton has this look of pain on his face as he's savagely thrown to the ground. That can't continue to happen!

[underrated29]

Btw didn't you say the Chiefs would only score 3 points in this game? :wave:


I was completey and utterly shocked when they scored two Tds. I blame our offense for constantly putting the defense on the field.




Maybe below average was a little harsh but did he look like a top 10 QB? And he threw 3 TD's But also threw a pick, and should have thrown 2 more if KC's defenders could catch at all. He also missed open receivers with no pressure on him. A team gets 5 TO's but barely won, that must mean the offense did not capitalize on those TO's and a lot of that falls deservedly on Manning, IMO. So Manning in this game was average at best.



Cugel said it basically. When Peyton played Peyton ball he did awesome. When he did kubiak ball he sucked big balls. When the online blocked anyone he did well too

[chazoe60]

Re watched the game today because I didn't get to watch all of it yesterday (the boy child's football practice).

The good
Defense- I love the nastiness. I know we don't want a bunch of personal fouls but honestly the refs were a little whistle happy on two of those (more on that later) but I prefer a nasty defense with an edge to the soft dipshits we've seen in some iterations of our defense. I love our ball hawking attitude, finally a team that can force some turnovers.

Offense- Both of our WRs are badasses. DT was a man on that last drive. I also think, and some will call me crazy but Jordan Norwood is really close to being a good threat from the slot. I think by mid season he will be dangerous. Peyton looks good from shotgun but not great.

Special teams- McManus rocks! Turnovers are good.

The Bad
Defense- run defense scared me a little even though we won't see a lot of Jamal Charles' and especially not on the road on short weeks but it still needs to be tightened up. Couple of big plays to TEs. I'm nitpicking because really the D is amazing.

Offense- The OL is not good right now. There's hope that they gel but they have a lot of work to do. When Peyton looks bad in the last 7 or so games he looks worse than maybe he has ever looked. I'm not calling for Os or anything but Peyton needs to be better(not that everyone in the world doesn't already know this). One thing I've noticed from Peyton this season is that he absolutely loses all accuracy when he is moving. He's never been fleet of foot but for the first 16 years of his career he was deadly accurate even when he was moving or sliding in the pocket. This year? Not so much. Lastly, the running game sucks. It has way more to do with our OL than our RBs.

Special teams- No return game to speak of at all.

The Refs- These ******* guys were atrocious last night. 2 of the personal fouls were called because our D-linemen are apparently not good at changing direction while in mid air. They also gave Smith a first down on a feet first slide that he started about three yards behind the marker. Von hasn't been tackled that much since he was a RB in high school. I think we benefit less from opponent Offensive holding calls than any other team in the league. On one Charles run Kelce literally tackled Von at the point of attack and nothing. The ridiculously blown PI call was just a joke. I'm sure the Chiefs fan have similar complaints and they're probably justified because the refs just sucked I'm sure they sucked for both sides.

[Simple Jaded]

I think Latimer got sideways with Manning, just connecting dots but Clough has been telling a story about Manning trying to work with Latimer and Latimer simply ignoring him.

Clearly Manning holds significant sway over who plays, which is the only explanation for Caldwell and Norwood.

[GEM]

If true, Latimer really is a damn dummy. Why work so hard to get to the NFL and throw away the opportunity to catch from and learn from one of the games best players?

[wayninja]

Wow, Manning sounds like a total *******. It's colorado. Light-en up man.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

The Good:

We won at Arrowhead!!! This morning on Sirius/XM NFL, a Chiefs fan had called in. He sounded like Eeyore, totally down in the dumps. And he says, "Arrowhead is just jinxed." :D

Yes, fellow Bronco fans, our favorite team has now convinced Chiefs fans that they can't win in their own home against us, while we all know that's one of the best home-field advantages anywhere! :D :D :D :D

The Defense is so much fun to watch. Phillips looks like a 5 year-old in the toy store. Those guys are loving it.

The Bad:

If you find yourself tied with KC in Arrowhead, 0-0 in a defensive battle, on fourth and short, well within an awesome kicker's FG range. . .. You kick the freaking field goal! WTF? I appreciate that Fox never went for it, and I like taking a calculated risk here and there, but that wasn't the time or place. Take the points, ESPECIALLY AFTER A GIFT TURNOVER, and kick it back to them and make them start again at the 20 against our great defense. I really thought that call was going to come back to haunt us all game, and it nearly did.

Personal fouls. Come on guys, stay poised and in control. We gifted at least one drive to K.C. on dumb penalties.

The offensive line. I'm convinced it will get better. . .. because it can't help but get better.

Did we ever find out who called the f'n timeout on the 4th down run? It wasn't Kubes, it wasn't Manning or anyone on the offense. That was a first down run for CJ called back on a phantom timeout.

[chazoe60]

Did we ever find out who called the f'n timeout on the 4th down run? It wasn't Kubes, it wasn't Manning or anyone on the offense. That was a first down run for CJ called back on a phantom timeout.

It was Manning. They showed a replay of him calling it right before the snap.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Manning had to call timeout. The play clock was down to 2 seconds.

It would have been delay of game had he not called timeout. The snap came about 2 seconds after the clock hit zero. Maybe that's why we got decent yardage.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Manning had to call timeout. The play clock was down to 2 seconds.

It would have been delay of game had he not called timeout. The snap came about 2 seconds after the clock hit zero. Maybe that's why we got decent yardage.

Thanks. I just watched the replay of the game because I couldn't watch it last night. They didn't focus on who called it during the replay, just that it wasn't Kubiak and I assumed because the play went off well it wasn't Manning either.

[tomjonesrocks]

If true, Latimer really is a damn dummy. Why work so hard to get to the NFL and throw away the opportunity to catch from and learn from one of the games best players?

As recently as mid-August there were fluff stories about how Latimer was studious at Manning's Duke camp in April, how he was more comfortable with Manning, and Sanders going on abut how he'd break out this year.

But here we are a month later and a poor preseason he's nowhere to be found. If he can't play he can't play but seems to be no questions asked what's up with the guy.

Norwood doesn't do much for me and surprised the ball is going his way more than Caldwell from the preseason. He's small and not sure what he really offers us. Plus he had 4.6 speed -before- the ACL injury. Fowler I like better and he's almost as big as Latimer but he's not seeing the field either.

[Ravage!!!]

I t hink Latimer is just bad and the coaches don't have confidence in him going the right direction on reads. That is HUGE for a QB and WR, and if Latimer isn't consistant, then that leads to INTs as the QB is throwing one way while the WR is going another. He had that problem last year, and is probably still having the same problems.

He was a bad 2nd round pick. It sucks, but it happens.

[TXBRONC]

I was completey and utterly shocked when they scored two Tds. I blame our offense for constantly putting the defense on the field.







Cugel said it basically. When Peyton played Peyton ball he did awesome. When he did kubiak ball he sucked big balls. When the online blocked anyone he did well too

No you need hold yourself accountable. You said they would only score three points but they scored more. :D

[underrated29]

No you need hold yourself accountable. You said they would only score three points but they scored more. :D



Nevar!
The chefs do not deserve to score than 3 against us. Next game will be a goose for the defense

[gregbroncs]

Peyton was a tale of two QBs. When he was under center, the OL couldn't block a sunbeam and Peyton looked like he was 100.

When he was in the shot-gun, he looked like the 2012 Peyton.

He needs to be able to step into throws to get power into them. That means the OL MUST be able to block better, so Peyton will be able to make every throw. It won't take much, just a little adjustment for this OL to come together.

If they can do that, this season WILL be a Super Bowl season, because they have every element needed - ferocious defense plus powerful offense with play-makers on offense. People keep saying "Peyton's arm is a noodle."

Peyton's arm is no different than it was in 2012 or 2013. What's different is that the OL isn't pass blocking nearly as well. Peyton NEVER had a great arm and he doesn't now. He can't throw off his back foot and get any velocity on the ball like Andrew Luck or Aaron Rogers. And he has zero mobility. He needs the OL to block for him because he can't run around and get extra time to throw. He's not mobile.

Well, there's about 15-20 QBs in the league you could say the same thing about. Only they don't have Peyton's intelligence or accuracy.

So, if Peyton has to throw in a hurry because he's afraid the OL protection will break down or because there's actually a defender right in his face, then he looks bad. REALLY bad. You watch him and think "OMG! He's totally washed up." Then two plays later, he throws an absolute strike to Emmanuel Sanders and you think "there the old Peyton."

What was the difference? The OL gave him time and space to step into his throws.

What then is the essential difference between Peyton now and Peyton in 2010 before his injury? His arm never recovered it's full strength and his mobility has decreased from limited to none. But, his arm was not any stronger in 2013 when he set the all time passing record. He was just healthy all that year, and the OL played a lot better.

The biggest problem is that he's not going to stay healthy until mid-season if they don't start blocking better! At the 10:30 mark of the 4th Quarter, Evan Mathis just absolutely Ole'd his man and Peyton has this look of pain on his face as he's savagely thrown to the ground. That can't continue to happen!Fair enough. I did not pay that close of attention to realize when he was or was not in the shotgun. If what you are saying is the truth then the coaching staff better adjust to it. And for god's sake stop rolling Manning out on a bootleg. He can't throw that pass he hasn't come close to his receiver when they did try it, and the whole world knows he isn't running it even if there is 50 Yards between him and the closest defender.

[Simple Jaded]

I t hink Latimer is just bad and the coaches don't have confidence in him going the right direction on reads. That is HUGE for a QB and WR, and if Latimer isn't consistant, then that leads to INTs as the QB is throwing one way while the WR is going another. He had that problem last year, and is probably still having the same problems.

He was a bad 2nd round pick. It sucks, but it happens.

Latimer looked fine with Osweiler.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Fair enough. I did not pay that close of attention to realize when he was or was not in the shotgun. If what you are saying is the truth then the coaching staff better adjust to it. And for god's sake stop rolling Manning out on a bootleg. He can't throw that pass he hasn't come close to his receiver when they did try it, and the whole world knows he isn't running it even if there is 50 Yards between him and the closest defender.

We operated out of the shotgun 65% of the time in week 1.

People need to stop blaming Kubiak. It's silly.

[TXBRONC]

Nevar!
The chefs do not deserve to score than 3 against us. Next game will be a goose for the defense

What they deserve and what they did are two totally different things. I how you're right that the defense goose eggs the Chiefs the second time around.

[Cugel]

The problem is that they can't play in the Shotgun the entire time either. That's going to get Peyton killed. So, the problem can be stated as follows:

1. With Peyton under center. Peyton can't execute the 3-step drop because the defense is right in the backfield before he can even set up and look for his WRs. They are not respecting the run, but teeing off on Peyton. That's when he's been taking HUGE hits and getting sacked is from under center.

They can't run the ball with Peyton under center because the OL isn't opening any holes. They've been utterly horrible the first 2 games. So, to sum up, with Peyton under center it's been a complete and total disaster that only served to convince everybody that Peyton is washed up - because everybody blames the QB for everything, even when it's not his fault.

2. With Peyton in the shot-gun. Advantage Peyton. He doesn't have to set up, he's ready to throw in an instant, he can survey the field, he's facing the defense the entire time so he can see the rush coming at him and they almost never get a sack - he can throw the ball away or go to a quick outlet.

However, the problem here is that the OL isn't pass-protecting any better with Peyton in the gun than they were with him under center. He's having to throw the ball in 2 seconds. This has been the consistent problem for this team since Seattle was hitting him in 2 seconds during the Super Bowl. Teams are cheating their safeties up towards the line and doubling down on receivers in the short passing zone.

He's been trying to throw down field to force defenses to back off, but he can't hit the deep ball. Generally, that's been because he's having to throw too soon. He can't wait for the play to develop, but has to throw in under 2 seconds. Well the WR isn't far enough into his route at that point. Hurried throw results in an incomplete. He clearly has the arm strength to throw it far enough, but he doesn't have the time to complete it.

Once again the problem is the horrible OL play.

The only reason the passing game was effective in Peyton's last drive is: a. when Peyton can step into his throws he tends to have tremendous accuracy, and b. Demaryius and Sanders can grab the ball in traffic. Both are top 10 WRs, so they win a lot of battles in tight coverage. Ex: Demaryius catching the ball over his shoulder between 2 defenders on the last drive. Perfect coverage, but they could do nothing against a perfect throw and perfect catch. Same thing on the Emanuel Sanders TD. The problem here is that the WR is not always going to win those battles.

But the biggest problem with running all the plays in the shot-gun is that you can't RUN the ball effectively. First you can't do play action at all because there's no fake to the RB running towards the line. Second, if you do hand off to the RB he gets the ball while essentially stationary, and then starts accelerating towards the line. But, every single defender sees him get the ball. He's standing in open space in the backfield. There's no hesitation because there's no doubt about whether it's a play fake and the QB still has the ball. So every defender immediately starts running full speed towards the ball carrier, and the safeties come up immediately to plug any gaps.

Usual result: Little or no gain.

That's why you saw Peyton throwing almost every play on that final drive. In fact he was in the shotgun almost every play since midway through the 2nd quarter. And the only times he wasn't they ran the ball, and gained virtually no yardage at all. In fact, exactly 2 running plays worked: one 14 yard run by C.J. and one 16 yard run by Hillman.

Subtract those two plays and CJ & Ronnie combined on 19 rushes for 31 yards, less than 2 yards per rush.

Conclusion: I'd say the entire problem with the offense is that they can't run the ball from under center because the OL can't block and Peyton can't get the time to throw from under center because the OL can't block. So the Kubiak offense can't work.

And they can't run effectively from the shotgun because the defense can see that coming and it would take perfect blocking for them to gain many yards in a shotgun running play. That leaves only Peyton sitting back there in the gun and throwing 45 times during the game versus 21 rushing attempts.

That's going to get Peyton killed by mid-season. Either they learn to block better or Peyton's going to end his career on the IR.

[gregbroncs]

The problem is that they can't play in the Shotgun the entire time either. That's going to get Peyton killed. So, the problem can be stated as follows:

1. With Peyton under center. Peyton can't execute the 3-step drop because the defense is right in the backfield before he can even set up and look for his WRs. They are not respecting the run, but teeing off on Peyton. That's when he's been taking HUGE hits and getting sacked is from under center.

They can't run the ball with Peyton under center because the OL isn't opening any holes. They've been utterly horrible the first 2 games. So, to sum up, with Peyton under center it's been a complete and total disaster that only served to convince everybody that Peyton is washed up - because everybody blames the QB for everything, even when it's not his fault.

2. With Peyton in the shot-gun. Advantage Peyton. He doesn't have to set up, he's ready to throw in an instant, he can survey the field, he's facing the defense the entire time so he can see the rush coming at him and they almost never get a sack - he can throw the ball away or go to a quick outlet.

However, the problem here is that the OL isn't pass-protecting any better with Peyton in the gun than they were with him under center. He's having to throw the ball in 2 seconds. This has been the consistent problem for this team since Seattle was hitting him in 2 seconds during the Super Bowl. Teams are cheating their safeties up towards the line and doubling down on receivers in the short passing zone.

He's been trying to throw down field to force defenses to back off, but he can't hit the deep ball. Generally, that's been because he's having to throw too soon. He can't wait for the play to develop, but has to throw in under 2 seconds. Well the WR isn't far enough into his route at that point. Hurried throw results in an incomplete. He clearly has the arm strength to throw it far enough, but he doesn't have the time to complete it.

Once again the problem is the horrible OL play.

The only reason the passing game was effective in Peyton's last drive is: a. when Peyton can step into his throws he tends to have tremendous accuracy, and b. Demaryius and Sanders can grab the ball in traffic. Both are top 10 WRs, so they win a lot of battles in tight coverage. Ex: Demaryius catching the ball over his shoulder between 2 defenders on the last drive. Perfect coverage, but they could do nothing against a perfect throw and perfect catch. Same thing on the Emanuel Sanders TD. The problem here is that the WR is not always going to win those battles.

But the biggest problem with running all the plays in the shot-gun is that you can't RUN the ball effectively. First you can't do play action at all because there's no fake to the RB running towards the line. Second, if you do hand off to the RB he gets the ball while essentially stationary, and then starts accelerating towards the line. But, every single defender sees him get the ball. He's standing in open space in the backfield. There's no hesitation because there's no doubt about whether it's a play fake and the QB still has the ball. So every defender immediately starts running full speed towards the ball carrier, and the safeties come up immediately to plug any gaps.

Usual result: Little or no gain.

That's why you saw Peyton throwing almost every play on that final drive. In fact he was in the shotgun almost every play since midway through the 2nd quarter. And the only times he wasn't they ran the ball, and gained virtually no yardage at all. In fact, exactly 2 running plays worked: one 14 yard run by C.J. and one 16 yard run by Hillman.

Subtract those two plays and CJ & Ronnie combined on 19 rushes for 31 yards, less than 2 yards per rush.

Conclusion: I'd say the entire problem with the offense is that they can't run the ball from under center because the OL can't block and Peyton can't get the time to throw from under center because the OL can't block. So the Kubiak offense can't work.

And they can't run effectively from the shotgun because the defense can see that coming and it would take perfect blocking for them to gain many yards in a shotgun running play. That leaves only Peyton sitting back there in the gun and throwing 45 times during the game versus 21 rushing attempts.

That's going to get Peyton killed by mid-season. Either they learn to block better or Peyton's going to end his career on the IR.While I agree that the OL has been bad. You are giving Peyton way to much of a pass. He is missing receivers while not being hurried.

[DenBronx]

The yellow sucks with a white background. Why do you always post with yellow Cugel?

[TXBRONC]

While I agree that the OL has been bad. You are giving Peyton way to much of a pass. He is missing receivers while not being hurried.

He missed several long passes to open recievers in the first two game it's not a criticism it's a fact.

[Joel]

While I agree that the OL has been bad. You are giving Peyton way to much of a pass. He is missing receivers while not being hurried.
Several people have noted this in several threads, but just to reiterate: When protection's awful QBs rush throws and jump to hot reads whether there's pressure OR NOT, because they can never know ahead of time whether this is one of the downs the line blows multiple blocks. All they can be sure of is that there will be MANY such downs, so they better get the ball out ASAP EVERY time. Ask David Carr.

Someone said something to the effect that "Manning's just got to trust his line," but that's easy to say sitting on our couches with non-surgically fused spines. Right now, he CAN'T trust his line, and neither can the RBs who are supposed to be taking some figurative and literal pressure off him: All they can do is compensate for their VERY untrustworthy line (or try.) It can hardly get worse, but needs to get much better very soon, or... what Cugel said. :(

[Cugel]

The yellow sucks with a white background. Why do you always post with yellow Cugel?

Holy crap! Do you have a white background? I have a dark blue background which offsets perfectly with yellow highlight. I had no idea that some people have a white background! How does that happen? I would never use yellow if I thought people had a white background.

[Cugel]

Several people have noted this in several threads, but just to reiterate: When protection's awful QBs rush throws and jump to hot reads whether there's pressure OR NOT, because they can never know ahead of time whether this is one of the downs the line blows multiple blocks. All they can be sure of is that there will be MANY such downs, so they better get the ball out ASAP EVERY time. Ask David Carr.

Someone said something to the effect that "Manning's just got to trust his line," but that's easy to say sitting on our couches with non-surgically fused spines. Right now, he CAN'T trust his line, and neither can the RBs who are supposed to be taking some figurative and literal pressure off him: All they can do is compensate for their VERY untrustworthy line (or try.) It can hardly get worse, but needs to get much better very soon, or... what Cugel said. :(

I still don't understand all the people ripping Peyton "he's washed up" "he has a noodle arm" etc. It's just insane or pure-blind ignorance.

I happened to hear the late night guy Ben Maller even AFTER the Thursday night game saying: "I touched off a Twitter bomb by insisting that Peyton is washed up. Well he's still pretty washed up. Not completely but pretty much. The noodle [arm] is still a noodle." Peyton just came out and threw for 3 TDs and led the team to victory in the final 2 minutes, and completely contradicted everything that he said in front of the entire country and he tried to pretend it didn't happen.

I insist after going back and looking at footage from 2012 and 2013 that there's no observable difference between his arm strength now and then. I imagine his legs are slower now than in 2012, which slows him dropping back from under center and is one reason he has sucked from under center.

And when he doesn't get time to plant his feet and room to step into a throw bad things happen. As in the pick-6 in both games.

But, way over 90% of the Broncos problems are total garbage play from the OL.

This is looking like a Super Bowl team in every respect EXCEPT the OL. If they don't win a SB it's not going to be Peyton's fault. It's going to be entirely because their OL just sucks - as it has since 2012 and Peyton can't cover up for every fault against a top defense in the playoffs like Seattle's.

[SR]

Holy crap! Do you have a white background? I have a dark blue background which offsets perfectly with yellow highlight. I had no idea that some people have a white background! How does that happen? I would never use yellow if I thought people had a white background.

Some mobile apps like Forum Runner have a white background. Makes reading yellow and orange text horrific.

[Shazam!]

I still don't understand all the people ripping Peyton "he's washed up" "he has a noodle arm" etc. It's just insane or pure-blind ignorance...

Those same people will one day regret that line on thinking. Broncos faithful have been fortunate to watch not one, but TWO Hall of Fame QBs in our lifetime. I used to hate Peyton for beating Denver's brains in on the reg, but he gave the Broncos legitimacy and won us a ton of games.

I just hope he can bring us a Championship, because like the Chiefs couldn't win it with Joe Montana, I don't want it to end the same way.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Holy crap! Do you have a white background? I have a dark blue background which offsets perfectly with yellow highlight. I had no idea that some people have a white background! How does that happen? I would never use yellow if I thought people had a white background.

If you're posting from your mobile device go to the tab on the bottom left and select default mobile.

[Northman]

Those same people will one day regret that line on thinking.

This is the most moronic thing you have ever posted. Players get old, it happens. Nothing will ever change the fact people get old so there is nothing to regret acknowledging when a player just isnt a young buck anymore.

[wayninja]

Calling out the fact that he's not currently playing very well is NOT the same thing as claiming his arm strength is gone or that he's washed up.

[Shazam!]

Those same people will one day regret that line on thinking.

This is the most moronic thing you have ever posted. Players get old, it happens. Nothing will ever change the fact people get old so there is nothing to regret acknowledging when a player just isnt a young buck anymore.

Sure he's old but clearly he can still get it done, even when he's playing behind an OLine that is like the worst in the League. I don't think Kubiak has actually done much to help him with his system and all and by resting him.

[Joel]

I still don't understand all the people ripping Peyton "he's washed up" "he has a noodle arm" etc. It's just insane or pure-blind ignorance.

I happened to hear the late night guy Ben Maller even AFTER the Thursday night game saying: "I touched off a Twitter bomb by insisting that Peyton is washed up. Well he's still pretty washed up. Not completely but pretty much. The noodle [arm] is still a noodle." Peyton just came out and threw for 3 TDs and led the team to victory in the final 2 minutes, and completely contradicted everything that he said in front of the entire country and he tried to pretend it didn't happen.

I insist after going back and looking at footage from 2012 and 2013 that there's no observable difference between his arm strength now and then. I imagine his legs are slower now than in 2012, which slows him dropping back from under center and is one reason he has sucked from under center.

In fairness, a lot of those people have forgotten or never knew his arm was about as noodly in 1998, and has ALWAYS made his living with accuracy and quick reads/releases. That compounds rather than mitigates their error, but also puts it in context. Most analysts (of ANYTHING) make THEIR living "explaining" nuts and bolts to people whose general ignorance prevents spotting the errors of "authorities." That's great for guys like Simms and Dilfert, who once made their living riding great Ds to championships and now by riding THAT to gigs explaining offense they barely grasped to begin, but can't help anyone who already knows the obvious things they get right and instead seeks someone with deep, insightful and ACCURATE analysis.

By analogy, every stock guru tells their audience it should buy low and sell high, but every serious investor already knows that: The devilish details separating billionaires from people jumping out windows largely reside with the former, so when anyone else claims to offer them we must ask why anyone so knowledgable would make their living explaining it rather than make a far better one DOING it. In this context, that means talking heads calling Manning noodle-armed are overstating what everyone's known since before he was drafted, while ignoring the skills that made him a HoFer.

Sadly, needing a hot read EVERY down invites Ints, especially for a QB shifting to a new offensive scheme with less offseason practice time than he's had at any point in career (except 2011, of course, and remember how awful he looked his first month with a new team in 2012?) Precision passing and recognizing when the D does something completely different than it showed pre-snap (and in the NFL, that's most of the time) demands more than a second or two to scan the field, go through progressions and set ones feet, none of which, as you say, our line allows now.

Manning's shown he can still get the ball well downfield. He doesn't have Elways "rocket," but NEVER DID; his strength's still at least average for a starting NFL QB, which is pretty strong. What he lacks is the "laser" precision that's always been his bread and butter, but that's not age, it's needing to rush throws in a new offense because he never knows ahead of time whether he'll have ANY protection, so must ALWAYS assume he won't (that's usually the safest assumption with our line; it hasn't run blocked worth a darn since Shanny left, but used to provide decent pass protection: Now it can't do ANYTHING.)

Not long ago (i.e. middle of last year) some posters here speculated Mannings hyper-cerebral style might extend his career, because losing some velocity with age won't hurt him as much as it did guys like Favre: That was never as central to his game as it was theirs. I frankly doubt that; his (relatively) weaker arm just set its ceiling far lower from the start, so when it drops as much his throws will be MUCH weaker than Favres were at 40. A split second's the difference between a "strike" and pick in the NFL, and Mannings error margin has always been even less. But we ain't there yet.

[gregbroncs]

Our line hasn't been good. But claiming all of Manning's problems are because of the line is not even close to the truth. He's been bad all on his own.

[Slick]

Our line hasn't been good. But claiming all of Manning's problems are because of the line is not even close to the truth. He's been bad all on his own.

He is the reason why teams are stacking the box against Denver. The o line is never going to get better trying to block 6 or 7 guys.

All I read is, the o line needs time to gel, Denver needs to run the ball better. They never will against those fronts.

Peyton's going to have to get more accurate on those go routes because teams aren't going to back off until he does. The o line has no chance right now.

[Cugel]

If you're posting from your mobile device go to the tab on the bottom left and select default mobile.

I never post from a mobile device, only my computer. I'll just use red instead of yellow.

[Cugel]

Calling out the fact that he's not currently playing very well is NOT the same thing as claiming his arm strength is gone or that he's washed up.

OK. I just think that sig with the Chiefs fans wearing #25 Jamal Charles shirts sitting there in shock after his game ending fumble is priceless! You really have to keep that all year. It's a classic. :beer:

[BroncoJoe]

This is the most moronic thing you have ever posted. Players get old, it happens. Nothing will ever change the fact people get old so there is nothing to regret acknowledging when a player just isnt a young buck anymore.

This. Manning is a sure-fire first ballot HOF'er. BUT, he's 39 freaking years old. Has never been mobile and teams are teeing off on him and our OL.

I have faith Kubiak and Co. will figure out better plays to help stop the stacking of the box, but good grief - he is not the Manning of old, unless you're just talking about "old".

[Northman]

He is the reason why teams are stacking the box against Denver. The o line is never going to get better trying to block 6 or 7 guys.

All I read is, the o line needs time to gel, Denver needs to run the ball better. They never will against those fronts.

Peyton's going to have to get more accurate on those go routes because teams aren't going to back off until he does. The o line has no chance right now.


When teams stack the box you have to make them pay down the field. Against the Ravens and earlier in the KC game Manning was unable to do that. But, if Kubes is going to allow Manning to run primarily out of the shotgun and with the no huddle then we may see an improvement there instead of waiting until the 4th quarter like Thursday. But yea i agree, teams know that Manning is not the guy he once was so they will continue to challenge him to beat them down the field. Until that happens consistently we will see this offense struggle.

[BroncoJoe]

Frankly, I'd rather struggle a bit during the first 1/2 of the season, as opposed to the last 1/2.

Where exactly has that gotten them? SB appearance and a blowout. Playoffs, but losses.

There is a reason we're trying to balance the offense and not let it just be the Manning show.

[TXBRONC]

This. Manning is a sure-fire first ballot HOF'er. BUT, he's 39 freaking years old. Has never been mobile and teams are teeing off on him and our OL.

I have faith Kubiak and Co. will figure out better plays to help stop the stacking of the box, but good grief - he is not the Manning of old, unless you're just talking about "old".

Just connecting a few more of the long passes would go a long ways in getting defenses out of the habit of stacking the box.

[TXBRONC]

When teams stack the box you have to make them pay down the field. Against the Ravens and earlier in the KC game Manning was unable to do that. But, if Kubes is going to allow Manning to run primarily out of the shotgun and with the no huddle then we may see an improvement there instead of waiting until the 4th quarter like Thursday. But yea i agree, teams know that Manning is not the guy he once was so they will continue to challenge him to beat them down the field. Until that happens consistently we will see this offense struggle.

It hasn't been for a complete lack of effort to make teams pay. Manning just flat out missed several receivers that were open down field.

[Joel]

It hasn't been for a complete lack of effort to make teams pay. Manning just flat out missed several receivers that were open down field.
Happens to guys running for their lives (and spines.) Well, trotting. :tongue: If anyone can tell him beforehand which rare downs he'll get protection, he'd surely be much obliged; I certainly would.

[DenBronx]

Holy crap! Do you have a white background? I have a dark blue background which offsets perfectly with yellow highlight. I had no idea that some people have a white background! How does that happen? I would never use yellow if I thought people had a white background.

If you're posting from your mobile device go to the tab on the bottom left and select default mobile.


I have no such tab from my mobile device for this app.

[DenBronx]

If you're posting from your mobile device go to the tab on the bottom left and select default mobile.

I never post from a mobile device, only my computer. I'll just use red instead of yellow.


Thank you. The red is way easier to see now on a white background.

If I could change it to blue I would.

[BroncoJoe]

I have no such tab from my mobile device for this app.

It's not a "tab", it is a drop down menu at the bottom of the page.

[NightTerror218]

IMO opinion the reason Kubiak's system is not work is because of manning. Teams are taking away the middle of field and stacking the box. The are making him throw deep which he has yet to hit on.

Go back to the no huddle and the shot gun, opens up the field more and spreads out defense. Helping him not be forced to throw deep but get some shorter routes like at end of KC game.

If Manning would hit Sanders on those deep passes the offense would have clicked more. At times I was counting 8 defenders in the box with FS at the top of it.

[BroncoNut]

That second half was really good on both sides of the ball, sans a few plays on defense. The first half looked a lot like last week.

I hate the wide receiver depth and the tight ends just aren't that good in the passing game. Green got involved and that's good, and they tried to get Norwood and Caldwell involved but no one is scared of them and Thomas got bracketed all game. He was in triple coverage on that last drive and just made a couple of good catches. The good news is that leaves Sanders one on one and it turned into the tying touchdown.

Somebody who is not Sanders has to step up and take that pressure off of Thomas. That's when the big pass plays will come. Manning looks OK. Not great, but OK. He did make some throws that assures me he isn't done. That third down pass to Sanders in the first quarter down near Denver's own endzone can only be made by a handful of guys. He's still one.

The offensive line is bad.

The defense is just plain nasty.

the first half was like a big bag of sand

[chazoe60]

It's not a "tab", it is a drop down menu at the bottom of the page.

How does it drop down if it's at the bottom of the page?

[DenBronx]

I have no such tab from my mobile device for this app.

It's not a "tab", it is a drop down menu at the bottom of the page.

Nope, dont have that either Ghost Rider.

Whats the menu say?

[Slick]

7817

[TXBRONC]

Happens to guys running for their lives (and spines.) Well, trotting. :tongue: If anyone can tell him beforehand which rare downs he'll get protection, he'd surely be much obliged; I certainly would.

That's asinine. He's had the protection the receiver have been open and he missed. It's a fact. It's happened two three each of the last two games.

[GEM]

That's asinine. He's had the protection the receiver has been open and missed. It's a fact. It's happened two three each of the last two games.

I guess you miss it if it doesn't fit your argument. I mean even a blind man could see the overthrows that have happened.

There is fault in both the line and Manning. But it keeps Joel's bitching about the oline going for another 50 paragraphs....or something.

Yea, we know, Capt. Obvious. Our oline sucks. Next you'll tell us that the sky is blue! :shocked:

[TXBRONC]

I guess you miss it if it doesn't fit your argument. I mean even a blind man could see the overthrows that have happened.

There is fault in both the line and Manning. But it keeps Joel's bitching about the oline going for another 50 paragraphs....or something.

Yea, we know, Capt. Obvious. Our oline sucks. Next you'll tell us that the sky is blue! :shocked:

I know the protection has been less than consistent but each of the first two there have been occasions where the protection was good and Manning missed open an receiver.

[Joel]

That's asinine. He's had the protection the receiver has been open and missed. It's a fact. It's happened two three each of the last two games.
Sure it's a fact, but he can't know beforehand if this downs a rare occasion where the protection's decent, or wait and see: He must HABITUALLY rush throws because it's USUALLY NECESSARY. That makes a lot of passes off target, because our line's so bad it encourages him to EXPECT bad protection even when it's good; I sure do.


I guess you miss it if it doesn't fit your argument. I mean even a blind man could see the overthrows that have happened.

There is fault in both the line and Manning. But it keeps Joel's bitching about the oline going for another 50 paragraphs....or something.

Yea, we know, Capt. Obvious. Our oline sucks. Next you'll tell us that the sky is blue! :shocked:
You high-fived me for making this EXACT POINT on page 9, but now you're calling me out for it? :confused: Misclick, or didn't you see WHOSE post it was? :tongue:http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/601118-The-Good-and-the-Bad-Week-2?p=2383873#post2383873

Our line's been garbage since Before Manning, but saying so ensured all but 2-3 people replied with variations on "You're crazy: We've got the NFLs lowest sack totals; our line rules" (never mind Mannings quick reads/releases ALWAYS giving Indy league-low sack totals, too) or "we led the NFL in rushing in 2011" (never mind McGahee leading the NFL in yds AFTER CONTACT and a QB scrambling for 600 yds.)

I didn't know what I was talking about predicting our non-existent run and pass blocking would get Manning killed in SB XLVII either--even after EXACTLY THAT HAPPENED. Even when Schlereth and every analyst in the country, along with most current Denver coaches and players, bashed our line last year it still took half a season before more than the same few posters who'd always seen it conceded the point. People finally started admitting the problem while still reflexively denying it every time I dared comment. Talk about missing anything that doesn't fit ones argument....

Evidently that still goes: The SAME arguments that made me "Capt. Clueless" for years now make me "Capt. Obvious;" everyone concedes all the points, but conceding it was wrong to deride them is a bridge too far. I've spent so long wishing Elway would do what he IS doing with coaches, players and philosophies that it feels like a dream, but I'm trying hard not to say, "I told you so" (really:) Is it too much to ask everyone else stop angrily insisting "no, you didn't!"?

It's like everyone who spent the '30s calling FDR a warmonger and denying imminent war for which they refused to prepare showed up Dec. 7 saying, "Of COURSE we're at war, President Genius; tell us something we don't know!" Telling some folks things they don't know and refuse to know is living dangerously. Truth is (as a few others like Cugel, UR29 and most especially G_Money have noted consistently) our line's been bad and getting worse a LONG time. It just had to GET glaringly obvious before most folks would take off their orange-colored glasses long enough to realize the sky IS a different color.

Not my fault, and shouldn't be my problem.

[Joel]

I know the protection has been less than consistent but each of the first two there have been occasions where the protection was good and Manning missed open an receiver.
He can't wait and see either: He MUST get the ball out before he finds out the hard way. That means many rushed throws even when it turns out they don't have to be, and rushed throws are inaccurate.

Kubes hasn't turned Manning into Matt Schaub, but the lines lack of protection and run support is starting to make him look like David Carr. We're on pace for a similar season sack total.

[wayninja]

Easy. CSS dynamic height using a javascript function to populate the menu options and size the footer appropriately on hover. There's a million ways to do it. Duh.

[wayninja]

Yea, we know, Capt. Obvious. Our oline sucks. Next you'll tell us that the sky is blue! :shocked:

Not to nitpick, but technically the sky isn't blue...