Tanier: Manning doesn't need to be Manning to win

[VonDoom]

Another in a series of articles about our QB and defense. Nicely done, as usual by Tanier:



Before Unitas left the Colts, he led them to Super Bowl V. Sort of. Unitas threw 14 touchdowns and 18 interceptions in 1970. The Colts offense that year was nothing to write home about, even by 1970s standards. But a defense led by Bubba Smith, Mike Curtis, Jerry Logan and Ted Hendricks produced 25 interceptions in 14 games and seven more in the playoffs. Those Colts won a lot of 14-6 and 13-10 games, culminating in a 16-13 Super Bowl win. Old Unitas still had value as a game manager.

OK, Old Manning is now two years older than Old Unitas. But you get the picture. Maybe Manning doesn't have many 34-point games left in him. But the Broncos defense has many 13-point games left in it. Do you think Manning still has enough of an arm to manage a game and protect a lead? Few quarterbacks in history have a better brain for the task.

Manning carried a lot of teams during his career. He can ease up a little this year. Phillips and the defense are ready to pick up the slack.


Here's what's certain: Del Rio had to hammer some square pegs into round holes last year. Listing Ware as a defensive end was the most obvious example, though the least egregious. Ware lined up roughly where he usually lined up and did what he usually does last season, registering 10 sacks in the process.

But consider the case of Malik Jackson. At 6'5" and 293 pounds, Jackson is too lanky to play defensive tackle in a 4-3 but a little too big and slow for defensive end. Del Rio used Jackson mostly as a rotation defender, often platooning on early downs with Ware. Jackson responded with 30 stops (think "important tackles or sacks") by Pro Football Focus' count, 38 by Football Outsiders' count: very good—a little too good—for a part-time player.

Jackson is the perfect size and shape to play defensive end in a 3-4. He started at end against the Ravens, though a mid-game injury limited his availability. Jackson recorded three tackles (all of them "stops," according to Pro Football Focus) in just 27 snaps. Phillips' scheme makes it easier for the Broncos to get Ware, Miller and Jackson on the field at the same time, making it hard for opponents to protect the flanks of the offensive line.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2567745-peyton-manning-may-no-longer-be-able-to-lead-a-playoff-run-but-broncos-d-can

[Northman]

Meh, i think Manning does need to be Manning. At least a better version of the Manning we saw last Sunday. Sure, we pulled out the win but had we not i have a feeling the media would be sprouting a whole different story about Manning and how well he played Sunday. The defense this year will be a big help so as long as it stays healthy and can continue to pressure the opposing QB, stop the running game, etc. But i really dont think we can afford to have Manning play as badly as he did throughout the year. There will probably be times when the defense will look less than stellar and they will need Manning to be Manning. Just like in the past few years we couldnt rely solely on Manning we wont be able to solely rely on the defense this year. It all needs to come together and every facet of the team needs to play their best if we want to win a championship.

[CrazyHorse]

If we can't expect Manning to be Manning then we definitely can't expect Brock Osweiler to be Manning.

[Northman]

If we can't expect Manning to be Manning then we definitely can't expect Brock Osweiler to be Manning.

Of course not, we expect Brock to be Brock. More mobility and stronger arm, just lack of experience.

[VonDoom]

Meh, i think Manning does need to be Manning. At least a better version of the Manning we saw last Sunday. Sure, we pulled out the win but had we not i have a feeling the media would be sprouting a whole different story about Manning and how well he played Sunday. The defense this year will be a big help so as long as it stays healthy and can continue to pressure the opposing QB, stop the running game, etc. But i really dont think we can afford to have Manning play as badly as he did throughout the year. There will probably be times when the defense will look less than stellar and they will need Manning to be Manning. Just like in the past few years we couldnt rely solely on Manning we wont be able to solely rely on the defense this year. It all needs to come together and every facet of the team needs to play their best if we want to win a championship.

I think he can't continue to be as bad as he was on Sunday, that's for sure. But he could be a step up from that, which would be far away from his peak, and still be perfectly fine the way the rest of this team is built.

[blamkin86]

Personally I'm a lot more positive on the offense than I think a lot of others are - If is a big word, but if manning hooks up with sanders in the end zone in the Baltimore game, I think most people are more positive.

That said, with the short week, how much improvement can we expect to see? Are KC's pass rushers better than Baltimore's?

Denver 24, KC 13. You heard it here first.

[Ravage!!!]

Personally I'm a lot more positive on the offense than I think a lot of others are - If is a big word, but if manning hooks up with sanders in the end zone in the Baltimore game, I think most people are more positive.

That said, with the short week, how much improvement can we expect to see? Are KC's pass rushers better than Baltimore's?

Denver 24, KC 13. You heard it here first.

They ABSOLUTELY can rush the passer. Houston is tops in the NFL last year, and Hali is probably just as good. But they aren't nearly as good at stopping the run as Baltimore is. That was 27 games in a row that Baltimore hasn't allowed a 100yrd rusher. So we'll use the run, more, to help give Manning time on his passes. Baltimore wasn't worried about our run game, but KC will be.

[blamkin86]

They ABSOLUTELY can rush the passer. Houston is tops in the NFL last year, and Hali is probably just as good. But they aren't nearly as good at stopping the run as Baltimore is. That was 27 games in a row that Baltimore hasn't allowed a 100yrd rusher. So we'll use the run, more, to help give Manning time on his passes. Baltimore wasn't worried about our run game, but KC will be.

Thanks for the insight!!!

[TXBRONC]

I think he can't continue to be as bad as he was on Sunday, that's for sure. But he could be a step up from that, which would be far away from his peak, and still be perfectly fine the way the rest of this team is built.

I was getting ready to say something similar. Manning is 39, he's not the same quarterback he was in his prime nor even just few short years ago but he's going have to play better than he did on Sunday.

I wonder if we would be as concerned if Manning had connected on even just one of those long passes that would have resulted in a touchdown? This no criticism of those raising red flags but maybe people would be a little less on edge had Manning tossed a touchdown pass.

[Buff]

I think there is validity to the narrative that Elway has remade the team more in the model of our Super Bowl teams. So Manning shouldn't have to do as much.

It's our potential inability to pick up hidden yardage, which is historically something that game manager types thrive on, that worries me. It's the inability to scramble and pick up the 3rd and 2, or the ability to QB sneak for the yard when needed. When you get into dog fights with good defenses it often comes down to whoever is able to improvise best when the play breaks down.

[LawDog]

I think there is validity to the narrative that Elway has remade the team more in the model of our Super Bowl teams. So Manning shouldn't have to do as much.

It's our potential inability to pick up hidden yardage, which is historically something that game manager types thrive on, that worries me. It's the inability to scramble and pick up the 3rd and 2, or the ability to QB sneak for the yard when needed. When you get into dog fights with good defenses it often comes down to whoever is able to improvise best when the play breaks down.

If they're getting into 3rd and 2 or less I feel pretty good about how the offense is working in general. 3rd and long is where we need Manning to be Manning and find ways to convert. Just my humble opinion.

[tripp]

If Manning is even remotely as good as Alex Smith, we can get to the Super bowl, and that means you can be very average. Be a game manager, don't have to be a game changer. We have a lot of guys on this roster who can provide that role. Be the guy that can give Demaryius and Emmanuel the opportunity to change the game with their FEET. Don't care for Madden 16 type numbers, throw for 200 yards and 2 TD's and I'll be happy. Hell, throw for 1 TD, and let CJ Anderson do most of the work. Just limit turn overs and eat the clock.

[CrazyHorse]

Of course not, we expect Brock to be Brock. More mobility and stronger arm, just lack of experience.

JaMarcus Russell?

[Ravage!!!]

JaMarcus Russell?

I'm confused with this question of yours. North didn't suggest that every qb that has a stronger arm and more mobility is better than Manning. He's saying that Brock will be Brock.

[pulse]

Apparently he does...

[Northman]

I'm confused with this question of yours. North didn't suggest that every qb that has a stronger arm and more mobility is better than Manning. He's saying that Brock will be Brock.

Exactly. No one will ever be Manning just like no one will ever be Elway. Brock will carve his own legacy when the time is right.

[Ravage!!!]

After tonights game, I would say that "Tanier".... is dead wrong.

[VonDoom]

Similar article by Barnwell, so I'm just tacking it onto this thread. Not much we haven't been talking about ourselves, but I always like his stuff:



I would be lying if I suggested that Manning’s arm seems fine. There have been throws to the outside in each of his first two games that have been weaker than not only the NFL standard but even what Manning has exhibited since returning from his neck surgery and joining the Broncos. There’s been talk about Manning throwing ducks over that entire time frame, and yet he hasn’t been as bad as he’s been these past two weeks.

Instead, the disconcerting thing with Manning is less his arm strength than his accuracy, which has been incredibly erratic. That’s not a reference to those interceptions or to the multiple dropped interceptions he has generated against the Ravens and Chiefs. Really, more than anything, it’s to the big plays he missed. And in many cases, he’s not underthrowing those passes. He’s overthrowing them.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/sing-of-arms-and-the-man-why-the-broncos-cant-keep-leaning-on-peyton-manning/