Ten Broncos nominated for Pro Football Hall of Fame

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. – Ten Broncos were named 2016 modern-era nominees for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, as announced Wednesday evening.

Terrell Davis (RB), Clinton Portis (RB), Rod Smith (WR), Mark Schlereth (G), Tom Nalen (C), John Lynch (S), Jason Elam (K), Dan Reeves (HC), Steve Atwater (S) and Karl Mecklenberg (LB) were all included in the list.

Simeon Rice (DE) and Ty Law (CB) were also named to the list and played for the Broncos for fewer than two seasons.

Davis and Lynch were finalists for the 2015 class Hall of Fame class for just one season apiece.

rest - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Ten-Broncos-nominated-for-Pro-Football-Hall-of-Fame/12a93629-12fd-455c-959a-c58527a4ecb1

Here we go again - It's almost to the point where none of the Broncos who deserve to be there will get in unless there is a year where ONLY Bronco players are nominated.

[Davii]

Portis? Really?

[tomjonesrocks]

Portis? Really?

Wow. I loved Portis. Loved him as a Bronco and hated the trade at the time.

HOF? Please.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here is the full list

http://www.nfl.com/halloffame/story/0ap3000000531439/article/favre-among-modern-era-nominees-for-hall-of-fame-class-of-16

[Timmy!]

Portis.

:pound:

[Davii]

Thank you for the list Carol.

[Dzone]

Until TD is in , the HOF is a sham.

[wayninja]

The fact that Mecklenburg and Atwater continue to languish in HOF limbo is one of the great travesties of the 21st century.

[chazoe60]

The fact that Mecklenburg and Atwater continue to languish in HOF limbo is one of the great travesties of the 21st century.
As much as I like Meck, Gradishar being snubbed for decades is a much bigger travesty. I honestly believe, and I don't even think I'm biased in saying this, Gradishar is the most deserving eligible player in the WORLD that is not in the HOF.

[wayninja]

As much as I like Meck, Gradishar being snubbed for decades is a much bigger travesty. I honestly believe, and I don't even think I'm biased in saying this, Gradishar is the most deserving eligible player in the WORLD that is not in the HOF.

I love Gradishar, and he absolutely deserves to be in the HOF. But I simply think that Mecklenburg was the most complete defensive player to ever wear Orange.

[Dapper Dan]

Portis averaged 1100 yards per season over 9 seasons.

[DenBronx]

I'm going on strike if Davis doesn't get in this time. Jerome Bettis got in before Davis? Really? Are you kidding me?

[Dapper Dan]

I'm going on strike if Davis doesn't get in this time. Jerome Bettis got in before Davis? Really? Are you kidding me?

What does going on strike include doing?

[TXBRONC]

Until TD is in , the HOF is a sham.

It would still be a sham because the HoF has snubbed Randy Gradishar for decades.

[TXBRONC]

What does going on strike include doing?

It includes setting up a picket line outside the HoF. Den is providing the beer and brats you'll have to provide your own transportation sun screen and umbrella and chair. You'll have to provide your own material for a sign.

[Northman]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Making-the-case-for-the-Broncos-2016-Hall-of-Fame-nominees/1486e7b5-f028-4399-83f3-80d2847dfb5e


RB TERRELL DAVIS (1995-2002)Worth noting: Eleven men have won Super Bowl and NFL MVP awards. Six of the eight who are eligible for the Hall of Fame are enshrined: Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Joe Montana and Steve Young. Davis and fellow nominee Kurt Warner are the notable exceptions to this. (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/peyton-manning/5e49338e-cd44-4226-9451-f111c0eb767d/) and Aaron Rodgers are also in the Super Bowl/NFL MVP club, but none are eligible for induction.) Davis is also the only non-quarterback on this list.

Davis' problem is a short career span, even though he had a stretch where he was clearly the best at what he did. It's why the process of Hall of Fame evaluation can't lean on fixed standards and milestones, but must be variable to account for factors beyond the player's control, like injuries. The fact that Davis has made it into the selection room as a finalist last year helps his cause.




S STEVE ATWATER (1989-98)
Worth noting: Atwater is one of the two first-team All-1990's safeties (along with Green Bay's LeRoy Butler) and made the Pro Bowl in eight of his 11 NFL seasons, including a final 1999 season with the New York Jets. Atwater, like Davis, has seen his case hurt by a relatively short career span, but played at a Pro Bowl level in 72.7 percent of his seasons and started in three Super Bowls.




WR ROD SMITH (1994-2008)Worth noting: He's the most accomplished undrafted receiver of all time, but draft status really shouldn't matter when determining Hall of Famers; it's all about performance.
Smith's numbers compare favorably with those of other recent inductees at wide receiver, and he is perhaps the best undrafted wide receiver in league history.

[Dzone]

Why bother with the hof anymore, its a joke. chris carter is in the hof and TD and Gradiasr arent. Pathetic. The entire institution should be embarrassed

[DenBronx]

I'm going on strike if Davis doesn't get in this time. Jerome Bettis got in before Davis? Really? Are you kidding me?

What does going on strike include doing?

I haven't figured this out yet. But it might include streaking during a live game.

[TXBRONC]

Anyway you look at it there are several Broncos that are getting shafted be the buttheads who select the players for enshirenment.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Wow. I loved Portis. Loved him as a Bronco and hated the trade at the time.

HOF? Please.

My sentiments as well.

[chazoe60]

Wow. I loved Portis. Loved him as a Bronco and hated the trade at the time.

HOF? Please.

I friggin loved that trade.

[MOtorboat]

I friggin loved that trade.

Champ Bailey's 2005 season was the greatest year by a corner ever. That guy was amazing. Man, was that season fun.

[SR]

Champ Bailey's 2005 season was the greatest year by a corner ever. That guy was amazing. Man, was that season fun.

That was a great season...even including the left handed pick...

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Champ Bailey's 2005 season was the greatest year by a corner ever. That guy was amazing. Man, was that season fun.


That was a great season...even including the left handed pick...

Yeah, that was amazing. He had 18 balls thrown his way that year and he picked off ten of them.

[Joel]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Making-the-case-for-the-Broncos-2016-Hall-of-Fame-nominees/1486e7b5-f028-4399-83f3-80d2847dfb5e

Unfortunately (and with the exceptions of Gradishar and Mecklenburg) those are pretty much all the former Broncos players who belong in the Hall: It's not the Hall of Pretty Good (which is where too many players from more prominent teams belong.) If the Hall lived up to its name, even Rod would be shaky (and I love him to death for his work ethic, accomplishments and team commitment: How many All Pros RETURN money they JUST got, simply to improve the team? The same number who play on hips their doctors say they shouldn't be able to WALK on, yet STILL make the Pro Bowl.)

Since I pretty expect immolation after all that, I might as well add this: The real travesty is that REEVES isn't in the Hall. After all, rings are manifestly the single biggest factor in induction, and they used to call Reeves "Ring Man" because he has more rings than FINGERS. Even if we agree for arguments sake that he simply rode Elway to 3 SBs in 4 years in Denver, he turned disastrous Giants and Falcons teams into playoff teams (and one SB team) almost overnight, not to mention throwing a TD in the Ice Bowl and just missing a catch that would probably have won SB 5 (and arguably did anyway since intercepting it in good field position set up Baltimore for the game winner.)

Seriously, by the time Reeves reached Denver there were already half a dozen guys in the Hall for little more than just playing in the Ice Bowl, but Reeves had already played on two SB teams (winning one) and been an assitant on two more (winning another,) and all he did after that was coach 4 more SB teams, putting out dumpster fires on two more squads along the way. How much should he punished for always coming up just short against some of the best teams ever (and the '87 'Skins, but the whole '87 season deserves a giant asterisk)?

Meh; everything's a popularity contest (just ask the Cheatriots.)

[tubby]

Yeah, that was amazing. He had 18 balls thrown his way that year and he picked off ten of them.
Is that accurate? WOW

:salute::defense:

[Joel]

Is that accurate? WOW

:salute::defense:
I can't vouch for them, but his PFR stats say 21 passed defended and 10 Ints in '06, 23 and 8 in '05. Wikipedia says 28 and 26 defenses (I haven't checked NFL.com, 'cause I'm kinda laggy right now.) Then again, back then he liked to drop his man when the ball was thrown, cross the width of the field and STILL make the Int on the opposite side, so maybe 10 Ints in 18 TARGETS is accurate (just not for '05. :tongue:) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BailCh00.htm

Pretty amazing to pick off HALF of all passes thrown at him (while allowing NO TDs) a year after grabbing a THIRD, any way we slice it. He also has the CB record for Pro Bowls (12), was the youngest player to have 3 Ints in a game (21.) He also has the record for most consecutive games without allowing a TD (106; until the last game of 2013, November '05 was the last TD he allowed in his CAREER.) He was also a swift sure tackler and fearless run defender who shares the CB record for most tackles in a game (14, matched only by Charles Woodson, Rod Woodson, Ronde Barber, Mel Blount and Night Train Lane.)

[GEM]

Unfortunately (and with the exceptions of Gradishar and Mecklenburg) those are pretty much all the former Broncos players who belong in the Hall: It's not the Hall of Pretty Good (which is where too many players from more prominent teams belong.) If the Hall lived up to its name, even Rod would be shaky (and I love him to death for his work ethic, accomplishments and team commitment: How many All Pros RETURN money they JUST got, simply to improve the team? The same number who play on hips their doctors say they shouldn't be able to WALK on, yet STILL make the Pro Bowl.)

Since I pretty expect immolation after all that, I might as well add this: The real travesty is that REEVES isn't in the Hall. After all, rings are manifestly the single biggest factor in induction, and they used to call Reeves "Ring Man" because he has more rings than FINGERS. Even if we agree for arguments sake that he simply rode Elway to 3 SBs in 4 years in Denver, he turned disastrous Giants and Falcons teams into playoff teams (and one SB team) almost overnight, not to mention throwing a TD in the Ice Bowl and just missing a catch that would probably have won SB 5 (and arguably did anyway since intercepting it in good field position set up Baltimore for the game winner.)

Seriously, by the time Reeves reached Denver there were already half a dozen guys in the Hall for little more than just playing in the Ice Bowl, but Reeves had already played on two SB teams (winning one) and been an assitant on two more (winning another,) and all he did after that was coach 4 more SB teams, putting out dumpster fires on two more squads along the way. How much should he punished for always coming up just short against some of the best teams ever (and the '87 'Skins, but the whole '87 season deserves a giant asterisk)?

Meh; everything's a popularity contest (just ask the Cheatriots.)

So Atwater was just an ok player? :shocked:

[MOtorboat]

So Atwater was just an ok player? :shocked:

He's only a Top 5 safety of all time.

[GEM]

He's only a Top 5 safety of all time.

Yea...anyone who says he is just ok....didn't watch him play. Dude was magical on the field. Add him to Dennis Smith and we had the most formidable safety duo in the league. SICK! That one left me saying what? :tsk: Just because someone didn't see them play doesn't mean they weren't HOF worthy. Elam not HOF worthy? Really. :tsk: Baffling.

And Rod would be shaky had he not been undrafted. Doing what he did as an undrafted player is unheard of, the fact that he took himself from absolutely nothing and comes up with this:

1) Ranks second on the most receptions (849) by any undrafted player in NFL history, behind Wes Welker.
2) Holds Broncos franchise records in career receptions, receiving yards and touchdown catches.
3) Ranks first on Denver's all-time yards from scrimmage list.
4) Only the sixth player in NFL history to have 100 receptions against at least 3 teams (Kansas City Chiefs, San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders).
5) AFC Offensive Player of the Week (week 15; 12/17/05 against the Buffalo Bills at Buffalo).
6) Associated Press second-team All-Pro (2000, 2001).
7) Football Digest first-team All-Pro (2000, 2001).
8) USA Today first-team All-Pro (2000).
9) College and Pro Newsweekly first-team All-Pro (2000).
10) Pro Football Weekly All-AFC (2000, 2001).
11) Division II Hall of Fame (Inducted in 2008)
12) College Football Hall of Fame (Inducted in 2009)
13) Denver Broncos Ring of Fame (Inducted in 2012)


Come on, man!

[wayninja]

I don't mind some of these guys not being in the HoF, but when you compare to others that ARE in the hall of fame, it makes no sense. If Gradishar and Mecklenburg aren't in, Ray Lewis should not be considered. But you know he will. You know he will be a first ballot HoF. Makes no sense.

[Joel]

I don't mind some of these guys not being in the HoF, but when you compare to others that ARE in the hall of fame, it makes no sense. If Gradishar and Mecklenburg aren't in, Ray Lewis should not be considered. But you know he will. You know he will be a first ballot HoF. Makes no sense.
We all know what Ray Lewis should be in, and it ain't the Hall of Fame. OJ couldn't have gotten in after '94, and Lewis never should've either.

[Joel]

So Atwater was just an ok player? :shocked:
Ending the Okoye Era should be enough for Atwater, but his was among the three profiles Northman listed. Pre-90s, I can't recall even lifelong Broncos fans recommending anyone but Mecklenburg and Gradishar for the Hall.

I agree Rods impressive accomplishments are even more so in an UDFA, but am unsure HoF electors do.

[Northman]

Lewis was beast as a player which is definitely HOF worthy.

[wayninja]

Lewis was beast as a player which is definitely HOF worthy.

Check this out, interesting:

www.milehighreport.com/2013/5/26/4366906/randy-gradishar-hof-credentials



I will take the argument one step further and state that if he isn't in the hall, Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis don't deserve to be enshrined either. We know that it is an idiotic statement though, both those players are deserving of the highest honor--and so is Randy Gradishar.

[Joel]

Lewis was beast as a player which is definitely HOF worthy.

OJ's the ONLY person to gain 2000 yds in a 14 game season (though Barry had EXACTLY 2000 the last 14 games of '97.) He still shouldn't be in the Hall, and if he'd committed his most infamous offfield act in the '70s, he wouldn't be. Lots of guys with half a dozen or more All Pro seasons have been (and remain) denied Hall induction for decades just for succumbing to drug addiction: Do murderers deserve better?

[Northman]

Check this out, interesting:

www.milehighreport.com/2013/5/26/4366906/randy-gradishar-hof-credentials (http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/5/26/4366906/randy-gradishar-hof-credentials)

Yea, but everyone knows Gradishar needs to be in but even if somehow he doesnt get in it wont stop Ray from getting there.

[Northman]

OJ's the ONLY person to gain 2000 yds in a 14 game season (though Barry had EXACTLY 2000 the last 14 games of '97.) He still shouldn't be in the Hall, and if he'd committed his most infamous offfield act in the '70s, he wouldn't be. Lots of guys with half a dozen or more All Pro seasons have been (and remain) denied Hall induction for decades just for succumbing to drug addiction: Do murderers deserve better?

You of all people should know how stupid your stance is. While the general consensus is that Ray was guilty he was never convicted legally so it wont matter what the general populace thinks, only what was done on the field. Im not sure who you are saying got left out due to off the field issues, off the top of my head it didnt take long for Lawrence Taylor or Michael Irvin to get in after they retired and both had off the field issues in their careers.

[wayninja]

I like to keep off the field stuff out of the conversation. I'm not condoning murder, but if we start including off the field stuff, then the opposite starts to become true, and it makes Mecks snubbing even more profound as the guy is an absolute community pillar.

[Joel]

You of all people should know how stupid your stance is. While the general consensus is that Ray was guilty he was never convicted legally so it wont matter what the general populace thinks, only what was done on the field. Im not sure who you are saying got left out due to off the field issues, off the top of my head it didnt take long for Lawrence Taylor or Michael Irvin to get in after they retired and both had off the field issues in their careers.
Carl Eller was the posterchild in the '80s and '90s, but finally got in about a decade ago thanks to nonstop lobbying by folks insisting addiction shouldn't be disqualifying. I'm not saying we should sentence Lewis without a conviction either, but we're not talking about imposing a legal penalty, only denying a professional honor. Just destroying evidence in a murder trial justifies that (after all, obstructing justice alone was enough to bring down the Nixon White House) whether or not he committed the murders themselves. Hiding a murder may be marginally better than committing it, but is a far worse crime than addiction.

Maybe we need a "Just Say No to Multiple Murders" campaign.


I like to keep off the field stuff out of the conversation. I'm not condoning murder, but if we start including off the field stuff, then the opposite starts to become true, and it makes Mecks snubbing even more profound as the guy is an absolute community pillar.

Well, SHOULDN'T that count in his favor? If it's truly a Hall of FAME, community activism maintains and increases fame.

[wayninja]

Well, SHOULDN'T that count in his favor? If it's truly a Hall of FAME, community activism maintains and increases fame.

It would be nice if it counted. But it's impossible to quantify. The fame is about on the field performance. Subjective stuff muddies the already murky waters here.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

KUSA - Everybody has pet peeves when it comes to players inducted or not elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

One of mine has a strong chance of getting corrected providing quarterback Kenny Stabler is rubber-stamped as a senior candidate for the class of 2016.

What's been annoying me lately is all this chatter about whether Terrell Owens, who is eligible on the current ballot, and Randy Moss, who is first-time eligible for nomination in 2017, are first-year Hall of Famers. Their election is certain. The question is whether they're first-ballot guys.

And yet the Denver Broncos' Rod Smith isn't even making it to the semifinalist round of 25. Smith has been among the 100-plus plus nominated for the Hall of Fame each year since he was eligible in 2012. Preposterously, he's never made it to the next cut.

rest - http://www.9news.com/story/sports/2015/09/21/rod-smith-denver-broncos-randy-moss-terrell-owens/72570300/

[GEM]

Carl Eller was the posterchild in the '80s and '90s, but finally got in about a decade ago thanks to nonstop lobbying by folks insisting addiction shouldn't be disqualifying. I'm not saying we should sentence Lewis without a conviction either, but we're not talking about imposing a legal penalty, only denying a professional honor. Just destroying evidence in a murder trial justifies that (after all, obstructing justice alone was enough to bring down the Nixon White House) whether or not he committed the murders themselves. Hiding a murder may be marginally better than committing it, but is a far worse crime than addiction.

Maybe we need a "Just Say No to Multiple Murders" campaign.



Well, SHOULDN'T that count in his favor? If it's truly a Hall of FAME, community activism maintains and increases fame.


You want to deny him a professional honor for something he plead out of and was never found guilty of?

[BroncoWave]

rest - http://www.9news.com/story/sports/2015/09/21/rod-smith-denver-broncos-randy-moss-terrell-owens/72570300/

I love Rod Smith but this is just silly talk. TO and Moss are #2 and #3 all time in receiving yards and Smith is #28. They are also #2 and #3 in receiving TD while Smith is #39. Again, I love Smith, but he is just not in their class.

The Super Bowl argument is just dumb. I can get using that as a tiebreaker if the stats were close, but the stats aren't close. And he actually used the fact that Smith has no catches in Denver's first Super Bowl win as a notch in Smith's favor because he was such a "team guy".

I admire this guy's effort who wrote this, but he's being a giant homer.

[aberdien]

Smith deserves the hall of fame maybe a few years down the line. Moss and TO were better.

[BroncoWave]

Smith deserves the hall of fame maybe a few years down the line. Moss and TO were better.

I would put Smith in the Hall of Very Good, but I don't see him as a hall of famer. His career stats were comparable to guys in his era such as Mushin Muhammad, Chad Johnson, Derrick Mason, and Keenan McCardell. Again, all very good players, but you can't just throw them all in the HOF.

It seems like the biggest argument people use for him is that he's one of the most accomplished undrafted players ever. It's admirable that he did what he did as an undrafted player, but I don't see how that puts his career above a guy who was drafted and had similar stats.

[GEM]

Yea, I wouldn't even bring them up in the same sentence. I do think Smith should get consideration, but not over those 2 guys.

[wayninja]

Yea, but everyone knows Gradishar needs to be in but even if somehow he doesnt get in it wont stop Ray from getting there.

That was my point, it doesn't make sense. If Ray belongs, so does Randy. So does Meck.

[Joel]

It would be nice if it counted. But it's impossible to quantify. The fame is about on the field performance. Subjective stuff muddies the already murky waters here.

Most HoF criteria are intangible and hard to quantify, which is probably why Rings and All Pro selections count far more than they should. But playing in media meccas counts about as much, is very intangible, and has nada to do with ability or performance. All kinds of unquantifiable things play a role; a CONSTRUCTIVE one should. You're right it largely doesn't though; just more "Rumbling in the Pantheon."

[Joel]

I would put Smith in the Hall of Very Good, but I don't see him as a hall of famer. His career stats were comparable to guys in his era such as Mushin Muhammad, Chad Johnson, Derrick Mason, and Keenan McCardell. Again, all very good players, but you can't just throw them all in the HOF.

It seems like the biggest argument people use for him is that he's one of the most accomplished undrafted players ever. It's admirable that he did what he did as an undrafted player, but I don't see how that puts his career above a guy who was drafted and had similar stats.

He did more (or at least as much) with less. Rod won SBs and made All Pro teams on Want To; he was never a burner nor bruiser, but ran PERFECT routes every time, somehow found a way to get open in even the best coverage and was clutch when the ball came his way: All because his commitment developed skills greater than his inborn physical talent (not that his talent was BAD, just not elite.) Same reason he gave back a chunk of a brand new contract to keep the other weapons we needed for a SB run, and played 2 seasons and made 2 Pro Bowls on a hip his doctor said to skip a season replacing.

He's a champion tribute to tenacity and integrity: That's why he has TWO SB Rings but Moss and Owens, despite setting records on several great teams, have NONE. And the Hall cares more about that than anything, so it's time to cast Rods bust. :)

[SR]

OJ's the ONLY person to gain 2000 yds in a 14 game season (though Barry had EXACTLY 2000 the last 14 games of '97.) He still shouldn't be in the Hall, and if he'd committed his most infamous offfield act in the '70s, he wouldn't be. Lots of guys with half a dozen or more All Pro seasons have been (and remain) denied Hall induction for decades just for succumbing to drug addiction: Do murderers deserve better?

Lewis wasn't convinced, so what's your point?

[Joel]

Lewis wasn't convinced, so what's your point?
That

1) Acquittal=/=innocence, and he actually WAS convicted, just not for the murder: He avoided murder prosecution by pleading to obstruction of justice and testifying against his entourage.
2) HoF induction is a privileged honor, not right, so denying its denial is no punishment, only denial of a privileged honor.

He didn't pay a settlement to BOTH victims' families because his hands are clean, and his praise as a "humanitarian" (note: NOT a person who eats humans) mixed with his utter lack of remorse is nauseating:


During a taped pre-game interview with Shannon Sharpe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Sharpe) that aired on CBS before Super Bowl XLVII, Sharpe told Lewis that the families of the slain men find it difficult to see Lewis be idolized by millions of fans, believing he knows more about the killings than he shared.[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Lewis#cite_note-52) “What would you like to say to the families?” Sharpe asked. Lewis said: "God has never made a mistake. That’s just who He is, you see.... To the family, if you knew, if you really knew the way God works, He don’t use people who commits anything like that for His glory.”

The NFL handing him another Ring (somehow) honors God, so is the same as the Almighty Himself declaring his innocence from on high. :rolleyes: Oh, and let's not forget his sage warning to Ray Rice, and aspiring athletes, that "there's things you can cover up, and there's things you can't cover up" (he would know.) Now let's send him to Canton; THAT'LL convince kids not to "Be Like Ray."

[SR]

That 1) Acquittal=/=innocence, and he actually WAS convicted, just not for the murder: He avoided murder prosecution by pleading to obstruction of justice and testifying against his entourage. 2) HoF induction is a privileged honor, not right, so denying its denial is no punishment, only denial of a privileged honor. He didn't pay a settlement to BOTH victims' families because his hands are clean, and his praise as a "humanitarian" (note: NOT a person who eats humans) mixed with his utter lack of remorse is nauseating: The NFL handing him another Ring (somehow) honors God, so is the same as the Almighty Himself declaring his innocence from on high. :rolleyes: Oh, and let's not forget his sage warning to Ray Rice, and aspiring athletes, that "there's things you can cover up, and there's things you can't cover up" (he would know.) Now let's send him to Canton; THAT'LL convince kids not to "Be Like Ray."

Lewis did so much during his career and was so active in his community that the only people that hold that shadow over his head still are clueless. So if you still hold that over his head, there's your sign.

[aberdien]

He did more (or at least as much) with less. Rod won SBs and made All Pro teams on Want To; he was never a burner nor bruiser, but ran PERFECT routes every time, somehow found a way to get open in even the best coverage and was clutch when the ball came his way: All because his commitment developed skills greater than his inborn physical talent (not that his talent was BAD, just not elite.) Same reason he gave back a chunk of a brand new contract to keep the other weapons we needed for a SB run, and played 2 seasons and made 2 Pro Bowls on a hip his doctor said to skip a season replacing.

He's a champion tribute to tenacity and integrity: That's why he has TWO SB Rings but Moss and Owens, despite setting records on several great teams, have NONE. And the Hall cares more about that than anything, so it's time to cast Rods bust. :)

Rod also had the GOAT quarterback while TO and Moss had a bunch of chumps for the most part.

[wayninja]

Most HoF criteria are intangible and hard to quantify, which is probably why Rings and All Pro selections count far more than they should. But playing in media meccas counts about as much, is very intangible, and has nada to do with ability or performance. All kinds of unquantifiable things play a role; a CONSTRUCTIVE one should. You're right it largely doesn't though; just more "Rumbling in the Pantheon."

I admitted the waters were already murky, but trying to compare stats with off-field community service/felonies is simply not apples to apples. Stats, by their very nature are quantifiable. Do they tell the whole story? No. Do they tell that Mecklenburg, in a single game, played every defensive position except for Safety/Corner? Not really. But it's just not the same as trying to compare charity events and rape accusations.

[Slick]

Rod also had the GOAT quarterback while TO and Moss had a bunch of chumps for the most part.

What?

McNabb, Young, Cunningham, Moon, Brady were chumps?

[SR]

What? McNabb, Young, Cunningham, Moon, Brady were chumps?

Where does Moon fit though?

[Slick]

Where does Moon fit though?

Not inthe chump category. He could throw it.

[wayninja]

Not inthe chump category. He could throw it.

Compared to Elway, all those guys are chumps, with one exception. And he is a cheater.

[DenBronx]

Not inthe chump category. He could throw it.

Compared to Elway, all those guys are chumps, with one exception. And he is a cheater.


I approve this message.

[Slick]

See what you started Abe?

[aberdien]

What?

McNabb, Young, Cunningham, Moon, Brady were chumps?

Moss played with Cunningham and Brady for 1 year each. Other than that? Mediocrity. TO had Young for a couple years and McNabb, but only one was worth a damn and TO was in the early stages of his career still. Warren Moon did not play with either.

Nevertheless, Rod Smith played with the best while TO and Moss (Moss specifically at least) with a few exceptions, did not.

[BroncoJoe]

Moss played with Cunningham and Brady for 1 year each. Other than that? Mediocrity. TO had Young for a couple years and McNabb, but only one was worth a damn and TO was in the early stages of his career still. Warren Moon did not play with either.

Nevertheless, Rod Smith played with the best while TO and Moss (Moss specifically at least) with a few exceptions, did not.

Eh - Smith really only had two years with Elway. Then Griese for 4 years and Plummer for 3.

[Joel]

Lewis did so much during his career and was so active in his community that the only people that hold that shadow over his head still are clueless. So if you still hold that over his head, there's your sign.

Hall inductees should magnify its stature, not diminish it, so shameful acts should be disqualifying. Covering up a murder (which Lewis has publicly admitted and of which he's been convicted) "qualifies as disqualifying" whether or not he also committed the murder. I mean, Aaron Hernandez was an exceptional talent and champion; if he becomes a community pillar after released from prison, should he go to Canton? I'm not saying Lewis should be thrown in a dank hole somewhere, only that he shouldn't be permanently enshrined with honor.

We've got enough huge entertainment, political and financial stars teaching kids professional success immunizes them against accountability for doing whatever they please to anyone: We don't need to heap yet MORE honors on them, particularly not while excluding many people whose professional record is equally, and whose moral character far more, deserving.

[Northman]

Hernandez wont go to Canton. He not only does not have the qualifications on the field but he was actually found guilty in a court of law.

[MOtorboat]

Hall inductees should magnify its stature, not diminish it, so shameful acts should be disqualifying. Covering up a murder (which Lewis has publicly admitted and of which he's been convicted) "qualifies as disqualifying" whether or not he also committed the murder. I mean, Aaron Hernandez was an exceptional talent and champion; if he becomes a community pillar after released from prison, should he go to Canton? I'm not saying Lewis should be thrown in a dank hole somewhere, only that he shouldn't be permanently enshrined with honor.

We've got enough huge entertainment, political and financial stars teaching kids professional success immunizes them against accountability for doing whatever they please to anyone: We don't need to heap yet MORE honors on them, particularly not while excluding many people whose professional record is equally, and whose moral character far more, deserving.

Sports Hall of Fames shouldn't play moral police. Baseball's writers/voters do and it's ridiculous. Ray Lewis went to court, had his day and was punished. Move on. He's also a Hall of Fame football player.

[wayninja]

Sports Hall of Fames shouldn't play moral police. Baseball's writers/voters do and it's ridiculous. Ray Lewis went to court, had his day and was punished. Move on. He's also a Hall of Fame football player.

I do agree with this, but the NFL does have a code of conduct policy, so they already do play moral police. Whether or not they should is a different matter. But they do.

[MOtorboat]

I do agree with this, but the NFL does have a code of conduct policy, so they already do play moral police. Whether or not they should is a different matter. But they do.

I still think that's different. I know it's baseball, but it's just ridiculous that Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose aren't in the Hall of Fame. They are Hall of Fame baseball players. Everyone gets a write up, put on the write up that both were convicted by the sport of gambling. It's a museum for the sport, so the whole story needs to be told, good and bad.

[Northman]

I do agree with this, but the NFL does have a code of conduct policy, so they already do play moral police. Whether or not they should is a different matter. But they do.

But their policy only applies to those who are currently playing. Even for a player who has had off the field issues during his career it has never held them back from getting into Canton.

[wayninja]

But their policy only applies to those who are currently playing. Even for a player who has had off the field issues during his career it has never held them back from getting into Canton.

Again, I agree. I'm simply saying there is a precedent for the NFL to play moral police. So far, they haven't done so that I've seen for the HOF. That doesn't mean they never will.

I'm not sure the NFL's policy on this has truly been tested. OJ is probably the biggest one you could cite. But not only was he found not guilty in his criminal murder case (don't really care about the other vegas stuff), but he was enshrined in Canton long before these off the field issues occurred.

If there is a player who retires after a fantastic carreer, and then before 5 years gets convicted of something spectacular, it will be interesting to see what the NFL does. My guess is that they would do nothing (i.e. not consider the off field stuff). But if Goodell is still running the show, nothing would surprise me.

[Joel]

But their policy only applies to those who are currently playing. Even for a player who has had off the field issues during his career it has never held them back from getting into Canton.

Never? Carl Eller played 4 SBs but waited 30 years, and Mac Speedie's STILL waiting, just for being RECOVERING addicts, convicted of NOTHING. There are tons of NFL greats like that: Why's Lewis better?

[Northman]

Never? Carl Eller played 4 SBs but waited 30 years, and Mac Speedie's STILL waiting, just for being RECOVERING addicts, convicted of NOTHING. There are tons of NFL greats like that; why's Lewis more deserving?

Thats just your speculation Joel, please dont be a moron. Michael Irvin had drug issues and got in very quickly, LT had issues, got in quickly. The reality is every year there is a list of players who are being nominated and then that list is narrowed down. It could be that Elier and Speedie simply arent making the cuts for nominations. Its not about Lewis being more deserving, its about how dominate he was on the football field. If you simply cant see or understand that than i dont know what to tell you. But not every player that is HOF worthy will get in right away. Gradishar has been snubbed too, do you think its because secretly he's an axe murderer? I mean come dude.

[Joel]

Thats just your speculation Joel, please dont be a moron.

Hardly just mine: The only reason Eller finally made it was to silence a horde of Purple People Eater fans screaming for decades about how a history of addiction recovery was no reason to bar one of the best DEs EVER. Too bad for Speedie; most people who saw him play are dead, and his chances died with them.


Michael Irvin had drug issues and got in very quickly, LT had issues, got in quickly. The reality is every year there is a list of players who are being nominated and then that list is narrowed down. It could be that Elier and Speedie simply arent making the cuts for nominations. Its not about Lewis being more deserving, its about how dominate he was on the football field. If you simply cant see or understand that than i dont know what to tell you. But not every player that is HOF worthy will get in right away. Gradishar has been snubbed too, do you think its because secretly he's an axe murderer? I mean come dude.

Yeah, NFL standards have changed since the '50s, or even '80s, when unrepentant drug use was enough to get even phenomenal talents like Alzado and Hollywood Henderson thrown out of the league. The Johnson/Switzer Cowboys are a big reason why, bringing all Miami and OUs prima donna drug dealers to the pros and building a dynasty of them. I still don't have to like, much less agree with, it. I liked those TEAMS while Johnson was there to keep them in line and their noses clean, but once he was replaced by the OU coach who managed a "national" "championship" despite his team being on probation because half of them were indicted for drug dealing and murder, they reverted to a bunch of hotdogging thugs, and I lost all respect for them.

It should go without saying I'm no more favorably impressed the NFL decided such behavior was suddenly tolerable, so it's now the league norm. So guys like Ray Lewis and Aaron Hernandez are, too, and guys like Darrent Williams get murdered simply for being on the same team with them. After what that's taught a generation of kids, we can't reverse it fast enough.

Don't taint the Hall, nor honor proudly remorseless thugs.

[The Glue Factory]

The article is wrong (or the title of this thread is.) Broncos have 11 finalists. Lou Saban was HC startin in 67.