A simple solution will fix the Denver Broncos offense

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


But the problem isn’t what most people think. It has nothing to do with Manning being uncomfortable with Kubiak’s offense. And it’s not a case of Father Time catching up with the future Hall of Fame quarterback. Instead, it’s simply a matter of the things being too crowded at the line of scrimmage.

Throughout the game, the Ravens took a page out of the Colts playbook from last year’s playoffs; they put 10 guys within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, brought pressure up the middle, and dared the Broncos to beat them downfield. And just like against Indianapolis, Manning couldn’t make Baltimore pay for covering everything over the top with just one safety positioned in the middle of the field.


And therein lies the problem. Without beating the tightly bunched defense over the top a time or two, there was no reason for the Ravens (or Colts or whoever is on the schedule next) to change tactics. As a result, they had too many men in the box for the Broncos to run the ball effectively and were able to blanket everything underneath in a way that prevented Denver from getting their short passing game going.


full article - http://milehighsports.com/a-simple-solution-will-fix-the-denver-broncos-offense/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from same article:


The good news is that it’s a relatively easy problem to fix. It’s not as though the Broncos have wideouts who can’t win one-on-one battles on the outside; Emmanuel Sanders and Demaryius Thomas should be licking their chops when they see that kind of coverage. And it’s not like Manning can’t make those throws; even those who think the quarterback’s arm is shot have to admit that he’s overshooting the deep ball of late.

It’s all just a matter of timing. Denver didn’t have it down when they played the Colts last year, as they were unable to adjust on the fly and make plays. And they didn’t have it yesterday, either, as a lack of work during the preseason made it tough for Manning, Sanders and DT to be on the same page.

Eventually, the quarterback and his receivers are going to click; sooner rather than later, they’re going to start connecting on those passes. And when they do, it’ll result in some easy touchdowns.

http://milehighsports.com/a-simple-solution-will-fix-the-denver-broncos-offense/

IMO - good article

[TXBRONC]

If Denver been able to connect on some of those longer passes their margin of victory is probably bigger.

[BroncoWave]

I don't think it's a slam dunk that Manning can still hit those throws consistently.

[G_Money]

Yep, I agree with that. Gonna have to throw middle and deep to open up the run and the short pass. This is where not having Julius hurts us. Of course, that Charmin soft dude wouldn't be in the field even if he were here, but that's the problem right now. Might have to run somebody like Latimer out of the slot to get some middle of the field receptions from bigger guys to help open the box up. We'll see. Manning also missed some guys being wide open that would have helped the scoring too. Hopefully Manning and his receivers will find there timing on throws over single-digit yards soon.

A couple of Hittable trick plays would be nice to when a defense is daring you to be bold, but those tend to require blocking than we're currently getting. Luckily we'll get 10 days to prepare after the Chiefs game and then face some easy competition for a couple of weeks after that. We have a minute before the meat of the schedule shows up.

[G_Money]

I don't think it's a slam dunk that Manning can still hit those throws consistently.

He might not hit them consistently, but more than zero percent makes the defense respect the possibility at least. And it ain't like DT can't go up and get it, either. If Dilfer and Johnson can win Super Bowls, I don't need Peyton Manning to be Peyton Of Old to get it done. I would settle for him being Eli.

[Buff]

Alternate take: what if what you see is what you get? What if Manning has been missing the same deep timing patterns for the better part of 2 years now? What if we've known all along that we have to throw it deep but are unable to do it effectively?

I think it's an illusion that we're on the cusp of putting it all together. I think this is par for the course with Manning against a good defense.

I think it's lazy football analysis to imply that "we'll start seeing some easy touchdowns when they start connecting on those passes" - yeah except we never will because that's why defenses are blitzing and manning up on the outside.

[Mike]

Alternate take: what if what you see is what you get? What if Manning has been missing the same deep timing patterns for the better part of 2 years now? What if we've known all along that we have to throw it deep but are unable to do it effectively?

I think it's an illusion that we're on the cusp of putting it all together. I think this is par for the course with Manning against a good defense.

I think it's lazy football analysis to imply that "we'll start seeing some easy touchdowns when they start connecting on those passes" - yeah except we never will because that's why defenses are blitzing and manning up on the outside.

I agree. We have seen the same Manning late last year, in the preseason, and now the first regular season game. I want to be optimistic, but can't. I just don't believe in Manning anymore. He is clearly uncomfortable back there, he gets happy feet, and it looked like yesterday his fear of taking the big hit is prevented him from seeing open receivers and identifying defenses correctly.

The offense we are running looks like last years offense, which has no identity and no flow to it. Yet, during the preseason the offense gameplan looked different for Brock and Siemian. Clearly different. And it looked better. I think that is the offense Kubiak wants to run, but Manning can't run it. Manning is the best QB on the roster though so what do you do?

I think they have the easy answer in the article, but I don't think Manning can do it. Teams figured his offense out and are content to put pressure in his face and dare him to throw deep.

[tripp]

How is Brock supposed to do any better when an offensive lineman blows his blocking assignment and the defensive lineman has a free shot at the QB? I sorta wish Brock would play a few meaningful snaps in this O-line just for everyone to stop thinking the grass is greener on the other side. Let's say, against the Chiefs?

[BroncoJoe]

Baltimore's defense were running delayed stunts and blitzes, which did confuse the Broncos O-Line. I don't think they played as badly as most people posting here. Manning took at least two "sacks" by simply going to the ground before he could get hit. Because he simply can't move and avoid a sack.

[OrangeHoof]

The old Peyton would get with his receivers in the off-season and throw pass after pass after pass after pass until he and his receivers were perfectly adjusted to be exactly where Peyton threw the ball with little adjustment needed. Manning's promise was always "If you run exactly to this spot at this exact time, my pass is going to hit you." That's what made him so deadly effective. He'd read the formation, decide what play had the best chance to work, tell his receiver which route to run and if they ran it perfectly and the blocking held, Manning put the ball exactly there 95% of the time because he and his receiver had practiced it so much.

I don't think he's adept at adjusting to any other style of offense.

[Northman]

I don't think it's a slam dunk that Manning can still hit those throws consistently.

I dont think so either. In theory it should work but if you cant make the connections consistently enough than its going to be a rough road this year trying to play that dink and dunk game. Have to be able to exploit those secondaries and with a future HOF that really shouldnt be a problem in my opinion.

[Northman]

How is Brock supposed to do any better when an offensive lineman blows his blocking assignment and the defensive lineman has a free shot at the QB? I sorta wish Brock would play a few meaningful snaps in this O-line just for everyone to stop thinking the grass is greener on the other side. Let's say, against the Chiefs?

On the flipside, what if it is greener on the other side? I know you dont like Brock and all but he is more mobile so if the line breaks down he has better feet to get out of the way. He also has a younger, fresher, stronger arm than Manning at this point and he has proven he can sling it accurately down the field. So my question to you is, what if going with Brock is the better choice? Could you even be able to accept that maybe Manning really is done?

[Northman]

Baltimore's defense were running delayed stunts and blitzes, which did confuse the Broncos O-Line. I don't think they played as badly as most people posting here. Manning took at least two "sacks" by simply going to the ground before he could get hit. Because he simply can't move and avoid a sack.

Yea, i know of one i saw where the defender was a good 3-4 feet away and he just dropped to the ground.

[tripp]

On the flipside, what if it is greener on the other side? I know you dont like Brock and all but he is more mobile so if the line breaks down he has better feet to get out of the way. He also has a younger, fresher, stronger arm than Manning at this point and he has proven he can sling it accurately down the field. So my question to you is, what if going with Brock is the better choice? Could you even be able to accept that maybe Manning really is done?

Well, to be fair I don't mind Brock. I think he does provide attributes to the quarterback position that Peyton does not, including mobility, and a stronger arm. I think if we're half way through the season, and Peyton continues demonstrate that he can't play under this new system, and we're below .500, I think then and only then would I bench Manning in place for Brock. Only if I felt that Peyton was holding us back and we were in jeopardy of losing a spot in the playoffs.

[BroncoJoe]

Let's be honest - Elway hired Kubiak for the future. Not for Manning. I think Manning will do "OK" in this system, but we all have to realize a 39 year old QB isn't going to be anything near what he's been over the past three years. The final 3-4 games last year is what I'm expecting, and it's not good.

[G_Money]

Alternate take: what if what you see is what you get? What if Manning has been missing the same deep timing patterns for the better part of 2 years now? What if we've known all along that we have to throw it deep but are unable to do it effectively?

I think it's an illusion that we're on the cusp of putting it all together. I think this is par for the course with Manning against a good defense.

I think it's lazy football analysis to imply that "we'll start seeing some easy touchdowns when they start connecting on those passes" - yeah except we never will because that's why defenses are blitzing and manning up on the outside.

Entirely possible. If he can't, though, then we're in trouble as a contender this year. I'd prefer not to go there until we have to. Manning can obviously still get the ball downfield or he wouldn't be overthrowing everyone. He apparently CANNOT throw on the move at all, so Kubes better knock off the rollouts ASAP. Keep those for Oz or Siemian.

But guys like Vasquez were blowing assignments in this game. Manning was right to be afraid of his pocket time and throw too soon, and the key to beating Manning has ALWAYS been to make him uncomfortable. If comfortable Manning still can't connect, then we have a problem. If he can't get comfortable in this offense then we also have a problem.

Doesn't mean I immediately jump to "Manning is useless and we're doomed" though. You could absolutely be right, but I'll wait a few more weeks before Hot Taking that position. Manning not practicing and playing enough in the new offense, especially with a young line and his best receiver holding out (while his other top target was injured) seems like a good enough reason to go with rust for week one.

Or maybe I'm just hoping that's the case. ;)

[G_Money]

Let's be honest - Elway hired Kubiak for the future. Not for Manning. I think Manning will do "OK" in this system, but we all have to realize a 39 year old QB isn't going to be anything near what he's been over the past three years. The final 3-4 games last year is what I'm expecting, and it's not good.

This is true - Kubes is here for longer than Manning. But I don't expect injured-Manning from last season to be pinnacle-Manning from this year. If he is, then I'll be annoyed at wasting this potential defense. :mad:

[BroncoJoe]

This is true - Kubes is here for longer than Manning. But I don't expect injured-Manning from last season to be pinnacle-Manning from this year. If he is, then I'll be annoyed at wasting this potential defense. :mad:

I really believe that if by week 3 or 4, if Manning hasn't improved he'll suffer an "injury" (they'll never admit to benching him) and Brock will start.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and this game was attributed to the Ravens' defense.

[Buff]

Entirely possible. If he can't, though, then we're in trouble as a contender this year. I'd prefer not to go there until we have to. Manning can obviously still get the ball downfield or he wouldn't be overthrowing everyone. He apparently CANNOT throw on the move at all, so Kubes better knock off the rollouts ASAP. Keep those for Oz or Siemian.

But guys like Vasquez were blowing assignments in this game. Manning was right to be afraid of his pocket time and throw too soon, and the key to beating Manning has ALWAYS been to make him uncomfortable. If comfortable Manning still can't connect, then we have a problem. If he can't get comfortable in this offense then we also have a problem.

Doesn't mean I immediately jump to "Manning is useless and we're doomed" though. You could absolutely be right, but I'll wait a few more weeks before Hot Taking that position. Manning not practicing and playing enough in the new offense, especially with a young line and his best receiver holding out (while his other top target was injured) seems like a good enough reason to go with rust for week one.

Or maybe I'm just hoping that's the case. ;)

Just for the sake of clarity, my hot take resides somewhere in the middle of "Manning is useless and we're doomed" AND "Manning is still good enough to beat 80% of the league consistently".

Most of the local sports radio hot takes want to focus on Manning's floor. "He's still our best chance of reaching the playoffs," they will say. Perhaps that is true. I still trust him to make fewer mistakes than Brock or any other random who we could have acquired this offseason. I still think he is the master of understanding how the defense is trying to defend him.

I just don't think he has requisite skills to sustain a 3-4 game run in the playoffs against the best defenses anymore. He doesn't have the improvisation skills that are required when the other team plays us to a stalemate. His limited skill set doesn't allow us to attack the entire field and put a defense on its heels and that's why people are consistently scheming against him more effectively.

I just think that in a league where the differences between winning and losing are so subtle - every little edge ends up making a difference and in the aggregate, his deficiencies are too great to overcome.

[BroncoJoe]

Just for the sake of clarity, my hot take resides somewhere in the middle of "Manning is useless and we're doomed" AND "Manning is still good enough to beat 80% of the league consistently".

Most of the local sports radio hot takes want to focus on Manning's floor. "He's still our best chance of reaching the playoffs," they will say. Perhaps that is true. I still trust him to make fewer mistakes than Brock or any other random who we could have acquired this offseason. I still think he is the master of understanding how the defense is trying to defend him.

I just don't think he has requisite skills to sustain a 3-4 game run in the playoffs against the best defenses anymore. He doesn't have the improvisation skills that are required when the other team plays us to a stalemate. His limited skill set doesn't allow us to attack the entire field and put a defense on its heels and that's why people are consistently scheming against him more effectively.

I just think that in a league where the differences between winning and losing are so subtle - every little edge ends up making a difference and in the aggregate, his deficiencies are too great to overcome.

In short, his brain still knows what he needs to do, but his body can't keep up anymore.

[Northman]

Buff is nailing all my sentiments today.

[G_Money]

The Ravens have a great defense, but I think it was more us than them. Which speaks to your point about Manning. I just don't think our offense can be properly judged with him at the helm after just 1 game and with no preseason to speak of. We took the time to get Oz ready in case of need, but did it at the expense of Manning's comfort and we're paying now.

Our next 5 games are the Chiefs in Arrowhead, the Lions in Detroit, then the Vikings, Raiders and Browns. If we can split the Chiefs and Lions games, then take care of business against the rest, we'll be okay. If we're not rolling by the time Green Bay comes around, then I'll sweat it more. Stealing this game with one of the worst offensive performances we could have imagined was big for us.

I choose to take it as the gift it was and not as a harbinger of doom. We're too early in the season for those kinds of harbingers, I hope.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I really believe that if by week 3 or 4, if Manning hasn't improved he'll suffer an "injury" (they'll never admit to benching him) and Brock will start.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and this game was attributed to the Ravens' defense.

IMO, absolutely it was attributed to the Ravens' defense, just like Flaco's performance, which stat wise was worse than Peyton's, was attributed to the Broncos' defense.

[G_Money]

To put it another way: based on Week One, the Patriots have a worthless defense unless their opponents shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly, the Colts have no offense at all and a defense that can't even keep the homeless version of RGIII at bay, the Bills and the Titans will be meeting in the AFC Championship game and the Raiders suck.

Well yeah... the Raiders suck. But still - let's not get carried away with the rest. One week is just one week. Let's at least get to October before we throw in the towel on our offensive potential.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER – Here’s a hypothetical situation you could have posed to any one of the defensive players for the Baltimore Ravens before kickoff of Sunday’s game against the Denver Broncos: If your defense keeps Peyton Manning or Joe Flacco from leading his offense to a touchdown, do you win the game?

The answer, likely unanimously, would be, “Absolutely.”

Yet Denver proved to be the epicenter of some sort of NFL Bizarro World in Week 1.


Growing pains were to be expected for both the Ravens and the Broncos, as both teams spent the offseason adjusting to new offensive coordinators. And opening against defenses stacked with pass rushers (though the Ravens became markedly less so after Terrell Suggs suffered a torn Achilles tendon in the fourth quarter) and stingy defensive backs perhaps contributed to the sluggish offenses.


“You know how it is, one day you’re getting booed, the next day you’re getting cheered. That’s the process of the NFL. We all understand that,” said Sanders, who blamed himself for not running fast enough for his missed end zone connections with Manning. “We just have to get back in the lab and create some touchdowns.”

full article - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2015/09/13/denver-baltimore-ravens-peyton-manning-joe-flacco/72227896/

[Northman]

I complain about everything. Im like Coach Boone, i demand perfection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f4pNwg_K9Q

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason retweeted Scotty Payne

Yes, and Elway said it two and a half weeks ago, & Kubiak has said it'll take time, so no one should be surprised.

Scotty Payne @Skotty_Payne
@MaseDenver Was a great defensive win, but the offense really is a work in progress.

[BroncoJoe]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 17h

Andrew Mason retweeted Scotty Payne

Yes, and Elway said it two and a half weeks ago, & Kubiak has said it'll take time, so no one should be surprised.

Scotty Payne @Skotty_Payne
@MaseDenver Was a great defensive win, but the offense really is a work in progress.

Well, they need to put in some overtime.

[tripp]

Well, they need to put in some overtime.

If I'm Peyton, and in my mind I know this is my last year, I'm doing everything I can to make every week count. That means extra reps to the receivers, going over plays until it's perfect.

[G_Money]

Well, they need to put in some overtime.

"It'll take time" should still start with us being adequate, not "Holy Carp this team couldn't score a TD on Tennessee Valley State." So I get the concern.

Hopefully the Carp hears our pleas and the offense reaches adequacy in the next two games. I can wait til the Vikings for greatness if I have to...

https://ircimg.net/holy-carp-final.jpg

[BigDaddyBronco]

I'm more worried that Manning can't make any of the medium distance throws with accuracy. Anything between 15 -30 yds seems to be out of the playbook. Part of that is the OLine not giving him the time, but his neck injury or age or something has really impacted his accuracy at that distance. A few deep throws will stretch the defence by keeping the safeties back, but those medium throws keep the CB's and LB's on their toes and they start giving up the underneath stuff.

Good thing is that our defense is bad ass! So we can stay in games while we are working out the issues on the offense.

[G_Money]

I'm more worried that Manning can't make any of the medium distance throws with accuracy. Anything between 15 -30 yds seems to be out of the playbook. Part of that is the OLine not giving him the time, but his neck injury or age or something has really impacted his accuracy at that distance. A few deep throws will stretch the defence by keeping the safeties back, but those medium throws keep the CB's and LB's on their toes and they start giving up the underneath stuff.

Good thing is that our defense is bad ass! So we can stay in games while we are working out the issues on the offense.

I agree, it's the medium throws I wanna see more of. This offense has post routes - where were they? It can't all be 3 yard crossing routes and bubble screens. If that's what we're gonna do, let Peyton do it from the shotgun.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I agree, it's the medium throws I wanna see more of. This offense has post routes - where were they? It can't all be 3 yard crossing routes and bubble screens. If that's what we're gonna do, let Peyton do it from the shotgun.

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 17h

Number to note after #Broncos win (will review game video), but #Broncos in shotgun 48 times (penalty plays inc) in game.

[BroncoWave]

Entirely possible. If he can't, though, then we're in trouble as a contender this year. I'd prefer not to go there until we have to. Manning can obviously still get the ball downfield or he wouldn't be overthrowing everyone. He apparently CANNOT throw on the move at all, so Kubes better knock off the rollouts ASAP. Keep those for Oz or Siemian.

But guys like Vasquez were blowing assignments in this game. Manning was right to be afraid of his pocket time and throw too soon, and the key to beating Manning has ALWAYS been to make him uncomfortable. If comfortable Manning still can't connect, then we have a problem. If he can't get comfortable in this offense then we also have a problem.

Doesn't mean I immediately jump to "Manning is useless and we're doomed" though. You could absolutely be right, but I'll wait a few more weeks before Hot Taking that position. Manning not practicing and playing enough in the new offense, especially with a young line and his best receiver holding out (while his other top target was injured) seems like a good enough reason to go with rust for week one.

Or maybe I'm just hoping that's the case. ;)

This seems like a pretty strong exaggerating. I don't think really anyone is saying this.

[NightTerror218]

"It'll take time" should still start with us being adequate, not "Holy Carp this team couldn't score a TD on Tennessee Valley State." So I get the concern.

Hopefully the Carp hears our pleas and the offense reaches adequacy in the next two games. I can wait til the Vikings for greatness if I have to...



Don't sit back on the vikings, I think they could make playoffs a wild card.....may have to wait until raiders.

[TXBRONC]

I complain about everything. Im like Coach Boone, i demand perfection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f4pNwg_K9Q

So are you saying you identify yourself as a black man in a white man's body and does Missy know about this?

[Northman]

I complain about everything. Im like Coach Boone, i demand perfection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f4pNwg_K9Q

So are saying you identify yourself as a black man in white man's body and does Missy know about this?

Yea