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View Full Version : The stretch run and the bootleg play action.



Broncoknight30
08-26-2015, 08:23 AM
First of all, I love a balanced offense. It is essential for a team if the goal is an actual championship. Let me put this way. Top 10 most prolific passing offenses in the history of the NFL, only ONE won the SB. Goes back to the day of air Coryel and Dan Marino offenses.

I have a concern about Peyton Manning's ability to run the bootleg. Which is actually pretty essential in Kubiak (west coast) stretch run offenses. It is necessary in order to cut off back side pursuit so multiple choices open up for the RB.

Here are the basics as shown by Alex Gibbs and the bread and butter for it to work optimally.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa3gZfQfH0

If you watch those plays, almost all of them Elway is representing bootleg. Watch how the back side needs to honor it. Gibbs makes comments about that, and how imperative it is.

I guess my concerns is Peyton Manning running that. Let us face it. Opposing defenses will be all that concerned. Then again you never know. Manning has certainly had a great play action game. Of course that is play action and dropping straight back. We will see.

SR
08-26-2015, 08:44 AM
Manning doesn't need to run fast or even run the ball. All he has to do is move with the line to create misdirection and open the field up. He's said he throws well on the move. I'm not worried about it at all.

Now do I think he's going to throw for 5K and 50 TDs in this offense? No. But the '98 Super Bowl team was the highest scoring offense in the league that year, went 14-2, and were damn near untouchable. I think that kind of production again this year can be a reasonable expectation.

Broncoknight30
08-26-2015, 09:41 AM
Manning doesn't need to run fast or even run the ball. All he has to do is move with the line to create misdirection and open the field up. He's said he throws well on the move. I'm not worried about it at all.

Now do I think he's going to throw for 5K and 50 TDs in this offense? No. But the '98 Super Bowl team was the highest scoring offense in the league that year, went 14-2, and were damn near untouchable. I think that kind of production again this year can be a reasonable expectation.

Pretty sure the Vikings in 98 scored the most points.

Anyway, I see what you are saying with Manning. I do not think opposing defenses will honor or respect Manning ever bootlegging. If you notice the QBs that operate that system the best are nimble with their feet.

From Montana, to Young, Elway, Favre, etc etc. All of them had that agility or ability if you will. Aaron Rodgers runs a variation of that system and so does Russell Wilson. Again, it is not the "stretch run" with those last two QBs. Heck, even Jake Plummer operated pretty effectively if you remember.

It is point of concern for me, cause like you said Manning is NOT exactly fleet of foot. At all. Then again you never know.

SR
08-26-2015, 09:56 AM
Pretty sure the Vikings in 98 scored the most points. Anyway, I see what you are saying with Manning. I do no think the defense will honor or respect Manning ever bootlegging. If you notice the QBs that operate that system the best are nimble with their feet. From Montana, to Young, Elway, Favre, etc etc. All of them had that agility or ability if you will. Aaron Rodgers runs a variation of that system and so does Russell Wilson. Again, it is not the "stretch run" with those last two QBs. Heck, even Jake Plummer operated pretty effectively if you remember. It is point of concern for me, cause like you said Manning is NOT exactly fleet of foot. At all. Then again you never know.

You're right; the 15-1 Vikes had the number one scoring offense that year.

I think you'll see Manning move out of the pocket a lot with play action passes. I doubt we'll see a lot of stretch plays because of Manning's lack of agility and speed. Maybe a couple plays per game just to keep defenses honest. I'm pretty curious to see how Kubiak blends his style with Peyton's strengths. I think it will be fun to watch. Regardless of what happens I think this team still finishes top five in scoring.

underrated29
08-26-2015, 10:18 AM
It has been pointed out that the Ravens last year who ran kubiaks system only ran the bootleg 17 times. That is 1 time a game. As long as manning makes the steps towards it the d will have to honor it even if he isnt doing a full on boot.


It wont be a very big issue at all. My main concern is just giving peyton time to throw. Mathis will help. If TY keeps playing the way he is and our RT doesnt suck- look out NFL!

MOtorboat
08-26-2015, 10:22 AM
Manning ran the zone stretch to perfection in Indy for something like 13 seasons. I don't think it's a concern at all.

Dapper Dan
08-27-2015, 01:42 AM
Manning fakes a handoff to the right and he steps back. He has Sanders and Daniels coming from the right, across the field, to the left. A safety bites on the run and either Daniels or Sanders is open. Manning doesn't have to run to his left to hit the open guy.

I still think I've seen him scramble out of the pocket a lot the past few years. I don't know that he can run and dive for a first down like Elway, but I think he will do just fine. When did Kubiak have a quick QB since he left Denver? He's had Shaub and Flacco. Shaub threw for a lot of yard and touchdowns while under Kubes.

ShaneFalco
08-27-2015, 02:08 AM
Pretty sure the Vikings in 98 scored the most points.

99 rams crush all your offenses and now they belong to me.

https://media.giphy.com/media/cwPcwzfZR9oJi/giphy.gif

Valar Morghulis
08-27-2015, 02:20 AM
99 rams crush all your offenses and now they belong to me.

Sometimes I think you might only be 14

Dapper Dan
08-27-2015, 02:29 AM
Sometimes I think you might only be 14

:rofl:

ShaneFalco
08-27-2015, 02:35 AM
ouch

Broncoknight30
08-27-2015, 06:23 PM
99 rams crush all your offenses and now they belong to me.

https://media.giphy.com/media/cwPcwzfZR9oJi/giphy.gif

Yes, they were the one team out of the top 10 most prolific passing offenses to win the SB. They of course were shut down by the Bucs in the NFCCG when they won 11 to 6. The greatest show on turf was shut down. They were also shut down by the Pats in the SB.

Just saying they were one exception in that they actually won it. However, every team in the top 10 were figured out and shut down at some point.

TY for playing though.

ShaneFalco
08-27-2015, 09:15 PM
to be fair. the patriots taped their practices :)

Dapper Dan
08-27-2015, 10:37 PM
Yes, they were the one team out of the top 10 most prolific passing offenses to win the SB. They of course were shut down by the Bucs in the NFCCG when they won 11 to 6. The greatest show on turf was shut down. They were also shut down by the Pats in the SB.

Just saying they were one exception in that they actually won it. However, every team in the top 10 were figured out and shut down at some point.

TY for playing though.

Just a note, he likes the Rams so I don't think he was trying to point out a flaw in your point. He was just looking for a reason to show his Blue and Gold colors.

ShaneFalco
08-27-2015, 10:44 PM
i need something to be proud off :( they getting moved to LA emo.

Jaded
08-27-2015, 11:07 PM
Manning isn't a threat to run but he's a threat to throw on the run, he doesn't have to be Andrew Luck to keep the DE honest.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-28-2015, 12:52 AM
'Somewhat' honest

Ravage!!!
08-28-2015, 10:08 AM
Confused by the OP....because the Dan Marino ran offense never won a Super Bowl.

Broncoknight30
08-28-2015, 11:07 AM
Confused by the OP....because the Dan Marino ran offense never won a Super Bowl.

Yeah, that is one of my points. He was a pass heavy offense with little to no balance. Marino may very well go down as the greatest POCKET PASSER ever. That, is not the same thing as being the best QB ever. Dan Marino did not exactly show an ability to run. He moved within the confines of the pocket really well. Quick release and all of that.

My point is if a team does not run a balanced offense (which means an EFFECTIVE running game) it usually gets figured out. Dan Marino had a losing play off record. Why? Cause play off teams are often there because they have a strong defense (the other common denominator that all championship teams have.)

Top 10 most prolific PASSING OFFENSES. Only one won a SB and that team (the 99 Rams) were figured out in the play offs. They had to win the NFCCG 11 to 6 against the Bucs. If the Bucs had any sort of offense at all, they would have went to the SB that year.

Not sure what the confusion is.

ShaneFalco
08-28-2015, 05:30 PM
Sometimes I think you might only be 14

well it didnt take you too long to join the hi five circle jerk of trashing me.

:welcome:

SR
08-28-2015, 05:54 PM
well it didnt take you too long to join the hi five circle jerk of trashing me. :welcome:

You make it so easy

BroncoJoe
08-28-2015, 06:01 PM
you make it so easy

lol

Valar Morghulis
08-29-2015, 03:11 AM
well it didnt take you too long to join the hi five circle jerk of trashing me. :welcome:

Seriously? I have argued your corner on multiple occasions. If you think I am somehow part of the anti-Shane shit, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am not going to placate your ego by begging you to stay or further elaborate my stance on you and your posts. All I will say, your needy self indulgent post has angered me. If you do decide to stay, you will be on my ignore list until you apologise.

For the record, your post about the Rams was stupid, my comment was in jest. Perhaps I touched a nerve about your age or mentality maybe you need to spend some time making peace with yourself, your insecurities and your own shit in general before you come on here accusing me of a gang mentality against you. I have spent my whole adult life trying to do what's right, so **** you.
What the **** have you done

FanInAZ
08-29-2015, 03:38 AM
Seriously? I have argued your corner on multiple occasions. If you think I am somehow part of the anti-Shane shit, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am not going to placate your ego by begging you to stay or further elaborate my stance on you and your posts. All I will say, your needy self indulgent post has angered me. If you do decide to stay, you will be on my ignore list until you apologise.

For the record, your post about the Rams was stupid, my comment was in jest. Perhaps I touched a nerve about your age or mentality maybe you need to spend some time making peace with yourself, your insecurities and your own shit in general before you come on here accusing me of a gang mentality against you. I have spent my whole adult life trying to do what's right, so **** you.
What the **** have you done

Not only did you agree with him on many occasions, but you presented better arguments then him when you did.

Valar Morghulis
08-29-2015, 03:42 AM
Not only did you agree with him on many occasions, but you presented better arguments then him when you did.

Yeah i know - maybe i need to take some time to work on my own shit lol, but his post really annoyed me, then when i read he has decided to leave the forums it made me rage that he is choosing to make me his scape goat for doing so.

Valar Morghulis
08-29-2015, 04:27 AM
pm received from Shane - it would appear i misunderstood the point in his post.

Apologies Shane, safe travels dude.

Dapper Dan
08-29-2015, 07:36 AM
I think Elway said on several occasions that it takes a balanced offense to win the Super Bowl.

MOtorboat
08-29-2015, 10:42 AM
I think Elway said on several occasions that it takes a balanced offense to win the Super Bowl.

I'm relatively sure that you just have to score more points than your opponents.

SR
08-29-2015, 11:30 AM
I'm relatively sure that you just have to score more points than your opponents.

I would also agree that the winner of the game is the team that scores the most points.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-29-2015, 04:16 PM
Yeah i know - maybe i need to take some time to work on my own shit lol, but his post really annoyed me, then when i read he has decided to leave the forums it made me rage that he is choosing to make me his scape goat for doing so.

I enjoyed your rage. It made me feel better about myself. Thank you for that moment of human weakness.

Valar Morghulis
08-29-2015, 04:19 PM
I enjoyed your rage. It made me feel better about myself. Thank you for that moment of human weakness.

hahaha, well, i am pleased that you took some pleasure from my child-like rant!

CrazyHorse
10-05-2015, 12:06 AM
The sweep from Hillman was a thing of beauty. More please!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-05-2015, 12:25 AM
The sweep from Hillman was a thing of beauty. More please!

Yes it was, and if you look closely you'll see our 2 TE's had 2 key blocks on that edge to spring him. That TD run doesn't happen if those guys don't make those blocks.

SR
10-05-2015, 05:02 AM
Yes it was, and if you look closely you'll see our 2 TE's had 2 key blocks on that edge to spring him. That TD run doesn't happen if those guys don't make those blocks.

I thought you were gonna say it was a bootleg ;)