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VonDoom
08-24-2015, 10:07 AM
Some interesting revelations in the new MMQB, about his 2011 injury and the end of last season. I don't remember him ever opening up about his injuries this way:


1. He still doesn’t have feeling in the fingertips on his right hand. “I can’t feel anything in my fingertips,” Manning said Thursday. “It’s crazy. I’ve talked to a doctor recently who said, Don’t count on the feeling coming back. It was hard for me for about two years, because one doctor told me I could wake up any morning and it might come back. So you wake up every day thinking, Today’s the day! Then it’s not.” I find his production all the more impressive since four neck procedures caused him to miss the 2011 season, and caused him to lose—maybe forever—the comfortable grip on the football. At 36, 37 and 38, his combined completion percentage is 2.8 percentage points higher than in his career before the neck problems; in Indy, he averaged 28.5 touchdown passes per season; in Denver, it’s 43.7. He may play games this year without wearing the glove he used last year, but anytime there’s weather or wind, expect the glove to be worn.


2. He traces the physically crummy end to last season not to age but to a vomitous December night in San Diego. Before the Broncos’ 14th game, in San Diego, Manning says a bug he caught from his sick daughter made him violently ill. “I threw up all night,” he said. “Then, in the game, I moved to the right on a simple scramble and my quad cramped on me. It lingered. I couldn’t shake it the rest of the year. I really studied it hard this off-season, whether it could linger into this year or whether it was isolated. I just think I got dehydrated, and that caused it. I don’t think you can blame it on my age. It was just an isolated thing. I’ve made it through every other season, and this off-season I went through a state of the union physically, if you will, and I started training earlier and made some dietary changes.” He’s confident about his health, to be sure. But he also knows there’s no insurance for 39-year-old quarterbacks.

Some more good stuff in there, including keeping Manning fresh, the pay cut and the OL, which includes this interesting quote from Elway:


“We’re still working on it,” Elway said. “We’re looking at all options. If we can find a player who can help us there as the season approaches, we’ll look at it.”

The rest: http://mmqb.si.com/monday-morning-qb-cris-carter-jordy-nelson-navorro-bowman-nfl

Denver Native (Carol)
08-24-2015, 10:19 AM
I just read that. Here are Vic's comments in regards to that -

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2h

...makes me wonder why or how that discussion even came up.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2h

Very rarely - like never - does Peyton Manning discuss his health. So for him to tell Peter King that he has no feeling in his fingertips...

Denver Native (Carol)
08-24-2015, 10:32 AM
Just did a google search - many websites have now picked up on Peyton has no feeling in his fingertips

VonDoom
08-24-2015, 10:36 AM
Just did a google search - many websites have now picked up on Peyton has no feeling in his fingertips

Yeah, the story is everywhere now. King is well respected as a journalist, so it's big news if he gets that kind of story. Manning must like him if he was that candid.

Valar Morghulis
08-24-2015, 10:36 AM
Dietary changes..... No more Papa John's?

Buff
08-24-2015, 10:48 AM
Most players would have divulged this in their first year back from injury as sort of an insurance policy if they struggle - "hey look, I'm doing pretty good for a guy who can't feel his fingers."

I think previously he felt like he had nothing to gain from divulging that information, but he feels like he has nothing to lose now that he's 39, on his last contract, and coming off of a pay cut. He's saving face a little bit.

It's no accident that it "leaked" that he had a quad tear after the season; nor is it an accident that he picked this particular moment on the verge of the season to give that scoop to the reporter with the largest national reach.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-24-2015, 11:17 AM
This might be a dumb question, but Peyton is right handed, and the article says he has no feelings in his fingertips on his right hand. With no feelings, would this not affect his grip on the football? Don't quarterbacks grip the football with their fingertips on their throwing hand? Or maybe not being able to feel the football with his fingertips would not matter - I don't know.

dogfish
08-24-2015, 11:24 AM
#BuffBreakdown

VonDoom
08-24-2015, 11:29 AM
This might be a dumb question, but Peyton is right handed, and the article says he has no feelings in his fingertips on his right hand. With no feelings, would this not affect his grip on the football? Don't quarterbacks grip the football with their fingertips on their throwing hand? Or maybe not being able to feel the football with his fingertips would not matter - I don't know.

I would think it HAS to have some effect on how he grips the ball. I think this was probably one of the many things he had to overcome in order to be able to throw passes at an NFL level again after 2011. It really makes these last three years even more incredible.

G_Money
08-24-2015, 11:43 AM
If you can't feel your grip with your fingertips, then you have to rely on the feeling of pressure that you get from clenching your forearm muscles to attain that grip. Basically you throw a ball until you can tell "my forearm should be THIS tense in order to get the proper ball grip." Which is why he needs the gloves in wind or rain, because his judge of grip is based simply on pressure - he needs the ball to never slip in order to keep throwing consistently.

Which means yeah, wobbly duck throws or not, it's basically amazing that he's still an elite QB without having any fingertip feeling. Doing it on muscle memory, palm contact and some guesstimation is pretty phenomenal.

Ravage!!!
08-24-2015, 11:45 AM
If you can't feel your grip with your fingertips, then you have to rely on the feeling of pressure that you get from clenching your forearm muscles to attain that grip. Basically you throw a ball until you can tell "my forearm should be THIS tense in order to get the proper ball grip." Which is why he needs the gloves in wind or rain, because his judge of grip is based simply on pressure - he needs the ball to never slip in order to keep throwing consistently.

Which means yeah, wobbly duck throws or not, it's basically amazing that he's still an elite QB without having any fingertip feeling. Doing it on muscle memory, palm contact and some guesstimation is pretty phenomenal.

It's muscle memory. With as much repetition as he's had throwing the ball since a kid, he could do it while sleep walking.

TXBRONC
08-24-2015, 11:59 AM
This might be a dumb question, but Peyton is right handed, and the article says he has no feelings in his fingertips on his right hand. With no feelings, would this not affect his grip on the football? Don't quarterbacks grip the football with their fingertips on their throwing hand? Or maybe not being able to feel the football with his fingertips would not matter - I don't know.

Yes. The article even mentions that he doesn't grip the ball the same as he did prior to the injury.

NightTrainLayne
08-24-2015, 12:10 PM
If you can't feel your grip with your fingertips, then you have to rely on the feeling of pressure that you get from clenching your forearm muscles to attain that grip. Basically you throw a ball until you can tell "my forearm should be THIS tense in order to get the proper ball grip." Which is why he needs the gloves in wind or rain, because his judge of grip is based simply on pressure - he needs the ball to never slip in order to keep throwing consistently.

Which means yeah, wobbly duck throws or not, it's basically amazing that he's still an elite QB without having any fingertip feeling. Doing it on muscle memory, palm contact and some guesstimation is pretty phenomenal.

It's outstandingly phenomenal if you ask me.

This answers so well my question for the past 3 years of why the glove sometimes and not others.

Just holding onto the ball while doing play fakes etc is taxing.

The seemingly higher prevalence of "ducks" also makes plenty of sense.

As to Buff's comments, I think it speaks rather highly to the character of Manning that this is just now coming out. Dude is not someone who makes any excuses for his play.

pnbronco
08-24-2015, 12:25 PM
It's outstandingly phenomenal if you ask me.

This answers so well my question for the past 3 years of why the glove sometimes and not others.

Just holding onto the ball while doing play fakes etc is taxing.

The seemingly higher prevalence of "ducks" also makes plenty of sense.

As to Buff's comments, I think it speaks rather highly to the character of Manning that this is just now coming out. Dude is not someone who makes any excuses for his play.

Me too NTL.....For him to learn to do something similar but in different manner for something he has done most of his life is amazing. Muscle memory is tough to change when you've done something the same way for 20 + years. The mental strength this man shows blows me away. It would have been so easy for him to tell himself. It was a good run and now time to retire instead of learning this new method.

Buff
08-24-2015, 12:44 PM
It's outstandingly phenomenal if you ask me.

This answers so well my question for the past 3 years of why the glove sometimes and not others.

Just holding onto the ball while doing play fakes etc is taxing.

The seemingly higher prevalence of "ducks" also makes plenty of sense.

As to Buff's comments, I think it speaks rather highly to the character of Manning that this is just now coming out. Dude is not someone who makes any excuses for his play.

I mostly agree - I would envision most players falling back on that excuse much sooner. Though I do think it's worth pointing out that when he actually did falter he made sure to divulge more details about the thigh and the nerve damage... So he is kind of making excuses for his play, even if they are totally valid.

The takeaway for me is that he remains a masterful PR genius. It didn't benefit him to divulge any of this previously, but it does now. He will be a great politician when his career is over.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-24-2015, 12:44 PM
Yes. The article even mentions that he doesn't grip the ball the same as he did prior to the injury.

Guess I missed that both times I read the article

NightTerror218
08-24-2015, 01:04 PM
Might be why he has an ugly ball in the air, no more tight spirals, but still accurate as hell.

G_Money
08-24-2015, 01:15 PM
It's muscle memory. With as much repetition as he's had throwing the ball since a kid, he could do it while sleep walking.

Except that because his arm strength and grip strength were both affected by the nerve damage, it's not the same arm he's been using since he was a kid.

G_Money
08-24-2015, 01:16 PM
I mostly agree - I would envision most players falling back on that excuse much sooner. Though I do think it's worth pointing out that when he actually did falter he made sure to divulge more details about the thigh and the nerve damage... So he is kind of making excuses for his play, even if they are totally valid.

The takeaway for me is that he remains a masterful PR genius. It didn't benefit him to divulge any of this previously, but it does now. He will be a great politician when his career is over.

When he and John co-own the team in 10 years, they can switch off media day quotes between them.

TXBRONC
08-24-2015, 01:18 PM
Guess I missed that both times I read the article

It's there.

Here's the line from the text:



Then it’s not.” I find his production all the more impressive since four neck procedures caused him to miss the 2011 season, and caused him to lose—maybe forever—the comfortable grip on the football.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-24-2015, 01:39 PM
It's there.

Here's the line from the text:

OK, I did see that, but you said that the article said that Peyton doesn't grip the ball the same as he did prior to the injury. so that was what I was looking for. I was confused - lol

TXBRONC
08-24-2015, 01:48 PM
OK, I did see that, but you said that the article said that Peyton doesn't grip the ball the same as he did prior to the injury. so that was what I was looking for. I was confused - lol

Nevertheless Manning not having feeling in his finger tips of his right hand does effect his grip iirc that's one of the reasons he went wearing a glove.

Northman
08-24-2015, 02:31 PM
Im still pissed about the Colts game....

Valar Morghulis
08-24-2015, 03:05 PM
Im still pissed about the Colts game....

yeah - just run goddammit

Cugel
08-24-2015, 04:26 PM
I know everybody will be obsessing about Peyton not having any feeling in his fingers. Here's the only important part of that quote "since 2011" Peyton hasn't had any feeling in his finger-tips.

And then he went out in 2013 and had a career best and NFL best All-Time season, throwing for 5,477 yards and 55 TDs and had only 10 INTs in 659 pass attempts.

If he lost the feeling in his finger-tips this off-season, then it would be a concern. But to learn that he's been this way since 2011?

As Abraham Lincoln said when people complained to him that Gen. Grant drank "let me know what kind of whiskey he drinks so I can send barrels of it to all my other generals." If losing feeling in his finger-tips means he can throw for nearly 5,000 yards per season, then more QBs should lose feeling in their fingers!

Cugel
08-24-2015, 04:38 PM
This article totally supports my contention that Peyton thinks he can still play as well as ever, and has no intention of retiring any time soon. Here's the important part of this interview, where he talks about last season and his poor performance down the stretch:


I don’t think you can blame it on my age. It was just an isolated thing. I’ve made it through every other season, and this off-season I went through a state of the union physically, if you will, and I started training earlier and made some dietary changes.” He’s confident about his health, to be sure. But he also knows there’s no insurance for 39-year-old quarterbacks.

Reality FM: All the idiots saying that Peyton is washed up are going to have to eat their words this year. He's going to be just fine. Whether he can stay healthy into January is another matter, but certainly he's starting this season in just as good shape as last year. And, unless he gets hurt or feels that he can't do it any more at the end of the season, he's coming back NEXT year too.

This also confirms what Broncos players have been telling everybody:


a typical offseason training regimen and a new head coach in Gary Kubiak, has the Broncos describing Manning’s throws with a word not often associated with a 39-year-old quarterback – zip. “He has a lot more zip,” said cornerback Aqib. “Chris Harris (Jr.) and I were just talking about that. He’s throwing that thing around this camp. He’s throwing comebacks from the opposite hash (http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/21/denver-broncos-nfl-training-camp-peyton-manning).”

“His balls are just so perfect right now,” Harris added. “When you got to take a pay cut, anything like that, that’s going to motivate you. You definitely know he’s motivated, and everybody is counting him out after what he’s done. Then he had the Tom Brady thing and what he said. So he has a chip on his shoulder, too.”

I think it's interesting that Manning has paid attention to the stuff Brady said about him this off-season (particularly that Peyton has 1 or 2 more years "at most", while Brady has 6 or 7 more years, "so bring it.)" It will be interesting if they meet this year in the playoffs.

As for the rest, I think Peter King's talk about the Broncos picking up additional OL is probably blown out of proportion.

What he said: “We’re looking at all options. If we can find a player who can help us there as the season approaches, we’ll look at it.” Well, no shit. That's what they ALWAYS say. They are always "looking for players who might be able to help us." And if someone gets cut who they like a lot then they might pick him up. And it would be nice if that player were an OL, preferably a LT, IMO. But, to say it's "likely" is probably an exaggeration. They aren't desperately looking for bodies at this point. Fans and sports writers may not have a lot of confidence in Ty Sambrailo, but Kubiak does. For now. We'll see what happens in a few weeks when he lines up against Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil.

TXBRONC
08-24-2015, 04:46 PM
I know everybody will be obsessing about Peyton not having any feeling in his fingers. Here's the only important part of that quote "since 2011" Peyton hasn't had any feeling in his finger-tips.

And then he went out in 2013 and had a career best and NFL best All-Time season, throwing for 5,477 yards and 55 TDs and had only 10 INTs in 659 pass attempts.

If he lost the feeling in his finger-tips this off-season, then it would be a concern. But to learn that he's been this way since 2011?

As Abraham Lincoln said when people complained to him that Gen. Grant drank "let me know what kind of whiskey he drinks so I can send barrels of it to all my other generals." If losing feeling in his finger-tips means he can throw for nearly 5,000 yards per season, then more QBs should lose feeling in their fingers!

No one seems to be obsessing and given what Manning has done with numb finger tips I don't see anyone being worried.

Cugel
08-24-2015, 04:55 PM
No one seems to be obsessing and given what Manning has done with numb finger tips I don't see anyone being worried.

Well, on 104.3 the Fan, one of their imbecile national sportscasters is arguing that Denver is one of the teams "that is on the decline." He's predicting that "Manning has declining skills" and will be worse than last year, and that they'll score fewer points, and be lucky to win 10 games. He doesn't think Denver will win the division, and will be a wild card! :rolleyes:

This imbecile even is arguing that Elway "tried to get rid of Peyton this off-season, and if he struggles at all this season, they will be eager to put in Brock Osweiler."

That's the national perception: Peyton is washed up. This is effectively Brock's team.

Of course, if that were true, it's incomprehensible why Elway didn't re-sign Brock to a long-term contract this off-season. Why let him enter FA next season?

Indeed, if Elway were "eager" to move on to Brock, why not just let Peyton retire, and go with Brock this year?

VonDoom
08-24-2015, 04:59 PM
No one seems to be obsessing and given what Manning has done with numb finger tips I don't see anyone being worried.

Right, I just thought it was an interesting piece of Manning's recovery that we hadn't heard about until now. Plus, this is a Bronco forum and it was a big article on our most famous current Bronco.



As for the rest, I think Peter King's talk about the Broncos picking up additional OL is probably blown out of proportion.

What he said: “We’re looking at all options. If we can find a player who can help us there as the season approaches, we’ll look at it.” Well, no shit. That's what they ALWAYS say. They are always "looking for players who might be able to help us." And if someone gets cut who they like a lot then they might pick him up. And it would be nice if that player were an OL, preferably a LT, IMO. But, to say it's "likely" is probably an exaggeration. They aren't desperately looking for bodies at this point. Fans and sports writers may not have a lot of confidence in Ty Sambrailo, but Kubiak does. For now. We'll see what happens in a few weeks when he lines up against Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil.

I think it's probably nothing, as you say. I just thought it was an interesting quote from him. It's a boilerplate answer, but "if we can find a player who can help us" is different than the usual Elway boilerplate answers, such as "we're happy with who we have" and "we want to let the young guys play."

Dapper Dan
08-25-2015, 12:06 AM
Sometimes I forget just how old Peyton Manning is in football years. I saw Matt Hasselbeck playing the other day and was surprised. Then I noticed Hasselbeck and Brian Griese were taken in the same draft as Manning. It's crazy how many quarterbacks have came and gone since then.

MOtorboat
08-25-2015, 12:08 AM
Peyton ******* Manning.

Dapper Dan
08-25-2015, 12:16 AM
At least he has feeling in his feet. Look at him turn on the jets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rm4W2KtE0M

Buff
08-25-2015, 12:53 AM
Sometimes I forget just how old Peyton Manning is in football years. I saw Matt Hasselbeck playing the other day and was surprised. Then I noticed Hasselbeck and Brian Griese were taken in the same draft as Manning. It's crazy how many quarterbacks have came and gone since then.


...Some in prison, some not.

http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/multimedia/photo_gallery/1203/peyton.manning.rare.photos/images/peyton-woodson-leaf.jpg

Dapper Dan
08-25-2015, 01:09 AM
...Some in prison, some not.

http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/multimedia/photo_gallery/1203/peyton.manning.rare.photos/images/peyton-woodson-leaf.jpg

If you looked at this and your first thought was the black guy is the one in prison, you might be racist.

Valar Morghulis
08-25-2015, 02:13 AM
If you looked at this and your first thought was the black guy is the one in prison, you might be racist.

Is that Kanye west

Dapper Dan
08-25-2015, 02:36 AM
Is that Kanye west

Nope. Just the guy that beat out the other 2 for the Heisman Trophy.

Valar Morghulis
08-25-2015, 03:02 AM
Nope. Just the guy that beat out the other 2 for the Heisman Trophy.

Wil.i.am?

Timmy!
08-25-2015, 03:05 AM
That's the national perception: Peyton is washed up. This is effectively Brock's team.


:pound:

TXBRONC
08-25-2015, 06:27 AM
Well, on 104.3 the Fan, one of their imbecile national sportscasters is arguing that Denver is one of the teams "that is on the decline." He's predicting that "Manning has declining skills" and will be worse than last year, and that they'll score fewer points, and be lucky to win 10 games. He doesn't think Denver will win the division, and will be a wild card! :rolleyes:

This imbecile even is arguing that Elway "tried to get rid of Peyton this off-season, and if he struggles at all this season, they will be eager to put in Brock Osweiler."

That's the national perception: Peyton is washed up. This is effectively Brock's team.

Of course, if that were true, it's incomprehensible why Elway didn't re-sign Brock to a long-term contract this off-season. Why let him enter FA next season?

Indeed, if Elway were "eager" to move on to Brock, why not just let Peyton retire, and go with Brock this year?

I thought you were talking about us fans. I would dare to say most of our fans don't see it that way. Idiots in the media are idiots in the media. When Manning got to Denver Jim Rome predicted that Denver would win just two games and then Manning would be done.

You're speculating about Osweiler's contract situation because he wasn't re-signed this past offseason. Miller is in the final year contract Elway hasn't re-signed him yet? Why did he wait with D. Thomas or for that matter Clady? I don't see how it's incomprehensible it looks more like his m.o.

Northman
08-25-2015, 06:37 AM
No one seems to be obsessing and given what Manning has done with numb finger tips I don't see anyone being worried.

Not only that but just because Manning wants to play doesnt necessarily mean Denver will retain him. Someone else mentioned it before but if Oz continues to play well and shows he is capable of running the team Denver could cut ties with Manning ala Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers scenario.

NightTrainLayne
08-25-2015, 09:33 AM
At least he has feeling in his feet. Look at him turn on the jets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rm4W2KtE0M

I was at that game. Definitely my favorite live Broncos game experience.

Cugel
08-25-2015, 06:34 PM
:pound:

I think its pretty hysterical too. But, idiots who pay only occasional and superficial attention to the Broncos are so out of touch with what's really going on around here, that they don't know any better. They saw Peyton struggle at the end of last season and are eastern media elites who know what they think - and don't want to be contradicted by the facts!

Cugel
08-25-2015, 07:11 PM
I thought you were talking about us fans. I would dare to say most of our fans don't see it that way. Idiots in the media are idiots in the media. When Manning got to Denver Jim Rome predicted that Denver would win just two games and then Manning would be done.

You're speculating about Osweiler's contract situation because he wasn't re-signed this past offseason. Miller is in the final year contract Elway hasn't re-signed him yet? Why did he wait with D. Thomas or for that matter Clady? I don't see how it's incomprehensible it looks more like his m.o.

Brock's situation is not remotely comparable to Von Miller's situation. The Broncos can and will franchise Von next season if they have to. That will give Von something like $14 million, which is a bit less than what he's going to make in a long term contract, lower than the $16.8 million the Chiefs gave Justin Houston (http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/7/18/8995153/signing-demaryius-thomas-gives-broncos-freedom-to-tag-von-miller-in). The important difference is that they will NEVER let Von Miller become an unrestricted FA.

But, the franchise tag figure for Quarterbacks is $18.5 million this season, and it will be around $19 million next year.

So, obviously they can't franchise Brock. Meanwhile, desperate teams will offer Brock $5 or $6 million a year, and that is just based on him playing well during the pre-season. For example the Buffalo Bills signed Matt Cassel and are paying him $10 million this year and last - yet they are saying publicly that the Bills are "in QB limbo". They are not good enough to beat Tom Brady in their division with the QBs they have, yet not bad enough to draft a QB like Mariota or Winston.

Some desperate team like this is going to want Brock, and will overpay for him.

Well, will the Broncos want to pay their backup QB $5 or $6 million next year to backup Peyton? No.

Yet, since this is absolutely foreseeable, why didn't they re-sign Brock this off-season when they could have signed him for maybe $3 million a year for this year and next - which is about the same as they will be paying to keep him next year (i.e. $1M this year plus $5M next = $6M).

If they are committed to him, why not lock him up now rather than get into a bidding war for his services next year?

They certainly didn't let Chris Harris or D.T. play out their contracts and become FAs. Certainly your starting QB is more important than CB or WR.

The only conclusion possible is that Elway views Brock as an insurance policy for Peyton Manning. IF Peyton retires at the end of this year, they can pay Brock $5 or $6 million a year.

If Peyton gets hurt sometime this season, and Brock starts a couple of games and wins, then his asking price will soar to around $10 million.

And if, God forbid!, Peyton gets hurt and Brock ends up playing the majority of the season, and does well, then his asking price is going to soar to around $15 million - which is what Matt Cassel got from the Chiefs, after he went 11-5 in relief of Tom Brady in 2009, with basically the same Patriots team that won 18 games the year before.

Elway refusing to re-sign Brock only makes sense if he couldn't convince Brock to sign a long term deal, because Elway couldn't promise Brock that he could compete for the starting job in 2016 - or 2017 or any time really. That will depend entirely on whether Peyton is still around.

As long as he's still here he's starting and Brock is sitting on the bench. And Brock wants to START somewhere.

So, they are letting Brock play out his contract this season, and then if Peyton retires then they negotiate a long-term deal and he gets the starting job.

On the other hand, if Peyton comes back again in 2016, then Brock is almost certainly gone, because Elway is NOT going to pay Brock $5 or $6 million a season to back up, and he can't match what some desperate team will offer. Plus, Brock will want to go somewhere he can start and won't want to stick around in Denver if Elway won't let him compete w/ Peyton for the starting job.

Dapper Dan
08-25-2015, 07:19 PM
Brock's situation is not remotely comparable to Von Miller's situation. The Broncos can and will franchise Von next season if they have to. That will give Von something like $14 million, which is a bit less than what he's going to make in a long term contract, lower than the $16.8 million the Chiefs gave Justin Houston (http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/7/18/8995153/signing-demaryius-thomas-gives-broncos-freedom-to-tag-von-miller-in). The important difference is that they will NEVER let Von Miller become an unrestricted FA.

But, the franchise tag figure for Quarterbacks is $18.5 million this season, and it will be around $19 million next year.

So, obviously they can't franchise Brock. Meanwhile, desperate teams will offer Brock $5 or $6 million a year, and that is just based on him playing well during the pre-season. For example the Buffalo Bills signed Matt Cassel and are paying him $10 million this year and last - yet they are saying publicly that the Bills are "in QB limbo". They are not good enough to beat Tom Brady in their division with the QBs they have, yet not bad enough to draft a QB like Mariota or Winston.

Some desperate team like this is going to want Brock, and will overpay for him.

Well, will the Broncos want to pay their backup QB $5 or $6 million next year to backup Peyton? No.

Yet, since this is absolutely foreseeable, why didn't they re-sign Brock this off-season when they could have signed him for maybe $3 million a year for this year and next - which is about the same as they will be paying to keep him next year (i.e. $1M this year plus $5M next = $6M).

If they are committed to him, why not lock him up now rather than get into a bidding war for his services next year?

They certainly didn't let Chris Harris or D.T. play out their contracts and become FAs. Certainly your starting QB is more important than CB or WR.

The only conclusion possible is that Elway views Brock as an insurance policy for Peyton Manning. IF Peyton retires at the end of this year, they can pay Brock $5 or $6 million a year.

If Peyton gets hurt sometime this season, and Brock starts a couple of games and wins, then his asking price will soar to around $10 million.

And if, God forbid!, Peyton gets hurt and Brock ends up playing the majority of the season, and does well, then his asking price is going to soar to around $15 million - which is what Matt Cassel got from the Chiefs, after he went 11-5 in relief of Tom Brady in 2009, with basically the same Patriots team that won 18 games the year before.

Elway refusing to re-sign Brock only makes sense if he couldn't convince Brock to sign a long term deal, because Elway couldn't promise Brock that he could compete for the starting job in 2016 - or 2017 or any time really. That will depend entirely on whether Peyton is still around.

As long as he's still here he's starting and Brock is sitting on the bench. And Brock wants to START somewhere.

So, they are letting Brock play out his contract this season, and then if Peyton retires then they negotiate a long-term deal and he gets the starting job.

On the other hand, if Peyton comes back again in 2016, then Brock is almost certainly gone, because Elway is NOT going to pay Brock $5 or $6 million a season to back up, and he can't match what some desperate team will offer. Plus, Brock will want to go somewhere he can start and won't want to stick around in Denver if Elway won't let him compete w/ Peyton for the starting job.

Elway will keep Brock.

SR
08-25-2015, 07:34 PM
I think its pretty hysterical too. But, idiots who pay only occasional and superficial attention to the Broncos are so out of touch with what's really going on around here, that they don't know any better. They saw Peyton struggle at the end of last season and are eastern media elites who know what they think - and don't want to be contradicted by the facts!

I love how you call people here idiots like you're the expert. Sick of your pompous, self-entitled shit.

TXBRONC
08-25-2015, 07:35 PM
Brock's situation is not remotely comparable to Von Miller's situation. The Broncos can and will franchise Von next season if they have to. That will give Von something like $14 million, which is a bit less than what he's going to make in a long term contract, lower than the $16.8 million the Chiefs gave Justin Houston (http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/7/18/8995153/signing-demaryius-thomas-gives-broncos-freedom-to-tag-von-miller-in). The important difference is that they will NEVER let Von Miller become an unrestricted FA.

But, the franchise tag figure for Quarterbacks is $18.5 million this season, and it will be around $19 million next year.

So, obviously they can't franchise Brock. Meanwhile, desperate teams will offer Brock $5 or $6 million a year, and that is just based on him playing well during the pre-season. For example the Buffalo Bills signed Matt Cassel and are paying him $10 million this year and last - yet they are saying publicly that the Bills are "in QB limbo". They are not good enough to beat Tom Brady in their division with the QBs they have, yet not bad enough to draft a QB like Mariota or Winston.

Some desperate team like this is going to want Brock, and will overpay for him.

Well, will the Broncos want to pay their backup QB $5 or $6 million next year to backup Peyton? No.

Yet, since this is absolutely foreseeable, why didn't they re-sign Brock this off-season when they could have signed him for maybe $3 million a year for this year and next - which is about the same as they will be paying to keep him next year (i.e. $1M this year plus $5M next = $6M).

If they are committed to him, why not lock him up now rather than get into a bidding war for his services next year?

They certainly didn't let Chris Harris or D.T. play out their contracts and become FAs. Certainly your starting QB is more important than CB or WR.

The only conclusion possible is that Elway views Brock as an insurance policy for Peyton Manning. IF Peyton retires at the end of this year, they can pay Brock $5 or $6 million a year.

If Peyton gets hurt sometime this season, and Brock starts a couple of games and wins, then his asking price will soar to around $10 million.

And if, God forbid!, Peyton gets hurt and Brock ends up playing the majority of the season, and does well, then his asking price is going to soar to around $15 million - which is what Matt Cassel got from the Chiefs, after he went 11-5 in relief of Tom Brady in 2009, with basically the same Patriots team that won 18 games the year before.

Elway refusing to re-sign Brock only makes sense if he couldn't convince Brock to sign a long term deal, because Elway couldn't promise Brock that he could compete for the starting job in 2016 - or 2017 or any time really. That will depend entirely on whether Peyton is still around.

As long as he's still here he's starting and Brock is sitting on the bench. And Brock wants to START somewhere.

So, they are letting Brock play out his contract this season, and then if Peyton retires then they negotiate a long-term deal and he gets the starting job.

On the other hand, if Peyton comes back again in 2016, then Brock is almost certainly gone, because Elway is NOT going to pay Brock $5 or $6 million a season to back up, and he can't match what some desperate team will offer. Plus, Brock will want to go somewhere he can start and won't want to stick around in Denver if Elway won't let him compete w/ Peyton for the starting job.

Dang Cugel this is overkill my friend.

Youu don't know anymore what Elway is thinking than what I do. No D.Thomas did playout his rookie contract just as Clady did a few years ago and iirc Harris was going into the last year of his contract and corners don't get paid like quarterbacks. You don't that Elway is refusing to sign him.

SR
08-25-2015, 08:52 PM
Dang Cugel this is overkill my friend. Youu don't know anymore what Elway is thinking than what I do. No D.Thomas did playout his rookie contract just as Clady did a few years ago and iirc Harris was going into the last year of his contract and corners don't get paid like quarterbacks. You don't that Elway is refusing to sign him.

We are all idiots in his eyes TX

Simple Jaded
08-25-2015, 09:34 PM
This just means that Manning doesn't need a roach clip, amirite, Shane?

TXBRONC
08-25-2015, 09:39 PM
This just means that Manning doesn't need a roach clip, amirite, Shane?

You might want to ask him later he's busy right now. :hat:

Simple Jaded
08-25-2015, 10:13 PM
You might want to ask him later he's busy right now. :hat:

He's just waking up I bet.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-26-2015, 05:27 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- In a few words Wednesday, Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning made his feelings known about the feeling in his fingertips.

Manning recently discussed -- with Sports Illustrated's Peter King -- the fact he doesn't have full feeling in his fingertips even now, more than four years after his fourth neck surgery, which caused him to miss the 2011 season.

"There's nothing really new from what I've kind of said all along," Manning said following Wednesday's practice. "I feel pretty good."

Manning has often discussed "the changes I've had to make" as he continues to play in the post-surgery portion of his career. And the main reason he has started to wear a glove at times in practices and games -- he has repeatedly said he never wore a glove before he missed the 2011 season -- is the changes in the feeling in the fingers on his right hand as he grips the football to throw.

rest - http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/14455/peyton-manning-says-numbness-not-a-new-feeling-just-football-business-as-usual