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View Full Version : Demaryius Thomas 5 years, $70 million, $43.5 Guaranteed. Done.



UnderArmour
07-15-2015, 02:50 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/621402777525338112

Denver and Demaryius Thomas reach agreement on matching 5-year, $70 million deal that includes $43.5M GTD, per source.

Around $14 million annually.

Northman
07-15-2015, 02:51 PM
Sounds about right.

Timmy!
07-15-2015, 02:59 PM
Wow.....nobody saw that coming. *cough*

CoachChaz
07-15-2015, 03:05 PM
The bad news today...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13260695/kansas-city-chiefs-sign-justin-houston-landmark-deal

G_Money
07-15-2015, 03:15 PM
Finally. Annoying to fight about him getting basically what the deal was gonna be all the time.

Von's contract is gonna be a bitch and a half, like Coach says. But one deal at a time.

Dzone
07-15-2015, 03:22 PM
Who signed first, DT or Dez?

Northman
07-15-2015, 03:27 PM
Dez

DenBronx
07-15-2015, 03:31 PM
I remember a couple of you saying "it won't happen"

Northman
07-15-2015, 03:33 PM
I remember a couple of you saying "it won't happen"

I didnt think he was going to make deadline personally. Especially when it was reported they werent even talking.

Jsteve01
07-15-2015, 03:39 PM
Who signed first, DT or Dez? umm what collusion?

Dzone
07-15-2015, 03:41 PM
So is the contract the exact deal Dez got? Looks the same. Thats kinda weird

Shazam!
07-15-2015, 03:50 PM
Now hopefully, he doesn't get lazy... Or 'too hurt to play.'

Cugel
07-15-2015, 03:53 PM
The bad news today...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13260695/kansas-city-chiefs-sign-justin-houston-landmark-deal

The Kansas City Chiefs signed linebacker Justin Houston on Wednesday to what sources say is a six-year, $101 million deal that includes $52.5 million guaranteed.

This sets the bar for Von Miller. He will want similar money, $100+ million with $52 million guaranteed (about $8.75 million/ year guaranteed). Houston is now the highest paid LB in NFL history, and is the highest paid Chief ever. Unless Von sets the bar above 22 sacks this season, he's not going to get more than this, but he's considered a comparable player in terms of production (at least one hopes so).

sneakers
07-15-2015, 04:03 PM
pretty cool I guess

UnderArmour
07-15-2015, 04:12 PM
This sets the bar for Von Miller. He will want similar money, $100+ million with $52 million guaranteed (about $8.75 million/ year guaranteed). Houston is now the highest paid LB in NFL history, and is the highest paid Chief ever. Unless Von sets the bar above 22 sacks this season, he's not going to get more than this, but he's considered a comparable player in terms of production (at least one hopes so).
If Von plays like he did the first two years of his career and does it distraction free, he will get more than Houston and Watt. Otherwise, it's the tag. If he hadn't tried to cheat the NFL drug policy, he would probably have that deal this offseason.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-15-2015, 04:15 PM
Sweet

BroncoJoe
07-15-2015, 04:16 PM
Pretty cool birthday present.

I wonder what DT will get me?

Northman
07-15-2015, 04:24 PM
Pretty cool birthday present.

I wonder what DT will get me?

Hopefully a SB trophy.

Cugel
07-15-2015, 04:29 PM
If Von plays like he did the first two years of his career and does it distraction free, he will get more than Houston and Watt. Otherwise, it's the tag. If he hadn't tried to cheat the NFL drug policy, he would probably have that deal this offseason.

You think Von Miller is going to get MORE money than a guy who had 22 sacks last year? He had 14 last season, which is 8 less than Houston. He's got a ways to go to catch, let alone surpass Houston's production. There are reasons to hope he has a better year this year, but it hasn't happened yet and might not.

The drug policy doesn't matter at all since the team can put a conduct clause in his contract in which, if he's busted for weed again and gets a year suspension (which will probably be the penalty), then he forfeits his signing bonus.

How can he object to that? "No! I want to retain the right under the contract to smoke a big spleef if I want, get banned by the league for a year, yet still keep my signing bonus?" :laugh:

Not even Ricky Williams ever went that far!

tomjonesrocks
07-15-2015, 04:38 PM
I didnt think he was going to make deadline personally. Especially when it was reported they werent even talking.

I'm shocked but quite pleased with the news. Has been tough to watch all the departures and I really think a few will bite - namely Roast and JT.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-15-2015, 04:42 PM
umm what collusion?

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 50m50 minutes ago

Broncos statement-"The suggestion our club may have colluded with another team about a negotiation is completely false and without merit."

TXBRONC
07-15-2015, 04:49 PM
I remember a couple of you saying "it won't happen"

Yep. :coffee:

Denver Native (Carol)
07-15-2015, 04:54 PM
Socially Speaking: Broncos react to Thomas deal

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Socially-Speaking-Broncos-react-to-Thomas-deal/c5f104c3-5611-4212-9a10-b38e4f6ff497

DenBronx
07-15-2015, 05:08 PM
Havent read through all the comments in all of the various threads but read that Denvers previous offer was 7 years at 100 mill. Not sure why that deal wasn't agreed on by DTs camp. Maybe guarantee was alot lower is the only thing I can think of. If guarantees were the same then I think DT should of took the other deal.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-15-2015, 05:35 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 29m

Vic Lombardi retweeted Liz Mullen

hahaha. it's either collusion or it's not. apparently, it never was.

Vic Lombardi added,
Liz Mullen @SBJLizMullen
Now that Dez Bryant & Demaryius Thomas deals are done, NFLPA is not expected to pursue collusion claims. a union source said.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 31m

Vic Lombardi retweeted chris balls

Around 18-million. And as expected, the final two years of deal are not guaranteed. Essentially a 3-yr, 43.5M deal.

Vic Lombardi added,
chris balls @freeshirtplease
@VicLombardi any word on a signing bonus for DT?

Denver Native (Carol)
07-15-2015, 05:37 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2m

Vic Lombardi retweeted ESPN Stats & Info

As I was saying....

Vic Lombardi added,
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo
Demaryius Thomas got a reported $43.5 million in guaranteed money

26 NBA players received more guaranteed money than Thomas this summer

MOtorboat
07-15-2015, 06:09 PM
I'm ecstatic that this happened. I really didn't think it would.

VonDoom
07-15-2015, 06:36 PM
You think Von Miller is going to get MORE money than a guy who had 22 sacks last year? He had 14 last season, which is 8 less than Houston. He's got a ways to go to catch, let alone surpass Houston's production. There are reasons to hope he has a better year this year, but it hasn't happened yet and might not.

The drug policy doesn't matter at all since the team can put a conduct clause in his contract in which, if he's busted for weed again and gets a year suspension (which will probably be the penalty), then he forfeits his signing bonus.

How can he object to that? "No! I want to retain the right under the contract to smoke a big spleef if I want, get banned by the league for a year, yet still keep my signing bonus?" :laugh:

Not even Ricky Williams ever went that far!

Houston got more guaranteed than Watt, right? Von will get more than Houston next year, hopefully from us.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-15-2015, 06:36 PM
I'm ecstatic that this happened. I really didn't think it would.
I'm ecstatic too. I thought there was a 50/50 chance the deal would still get done, but I assumed if it didn't this would be his last year in Denver

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-15-2015, 06:37 PM
Houston got more guaranteed than Watt, right? Von will get more than Houston next year, hopefully from us.

Houston and Watt dont have the off field issues and history of injuries.

VonDoom
07-15-2015, 06:40 PM
Klis posted the details of the contract, as we know them:

The details of Thomas' five-year contract:

2015: $22 million. He will receive an $11 million signing bonus, $6.5 million in roster bonus and a $4.5 million salary. All $22 million is fully guaranteed.

2016: $13 million salary, fully guaranteed.

2017: $8.5 million salary, guaranteed against injury. The full salary becomes fully guaranteed early in the league year.

2018: $12.5 million. It includes a $4 million option, plus an $8.5 million salary. None of this money is guaranteed.

2019: $14 million salary, not guaranteed.

There are no incentives, no escalators. It's a straight five-year, $70 million deal

Sportrac also posted on Twitter that DT's cap hit goes up to $13.2 million this year, so it remains to be seen how the signing bonus is spread out. In contrast, Bryant's deal lowered his cap hit this year but that means they "kicked the can" into other years. Better for us to have done it this way - good job by Elway.

Klis also mentions how the original offer to DT would have been 7 years, $100 million but less guaranteed. Interesting.

http://www.9news.com/story/sports/2015/07/15/broncos-demaryius-thomas/30205697/

VonDoom
07-15-2015, 06:58 PM
Houston and Watt dont have the off field issues and history of injuries.

People are making too much of this. If anything, there would be some language in his contract if he gets popped again. But I'm not even sure that this will happen - we'll have to see. His off field issues will not cost him one dollar in salary. I could be wrong, but I think he will end up with more in guarantees than Houston, provided a long term deal is reached. That's just the way things are now. AJ Green and Julio Jones will get more in guarantees than Dez and DT next year. It's not about them being "better" - it's about the ever rising cost of doing business in the NFL.

Poet
07-15-2015, 07:01 PM
That's what a top five caliber guy goes for. Wideouts are at a premium now.

VonDoom
07-15-2015, 07:03 PM
Klis posted the details of the contract, as we know them:

The details of Thomas' five-year contract:

2015: $22 million. He will receive an $11 million signing bonus, $6.5 million in roster bonus and a $4.5 million salary. All $22 million is fully guaranteed.

2016: $13 million salary, fully guaranteed.

2017: $8.5 million salary, guaranteed against injury. The full salary becomes fully guaranteed early in the league year.

2018: $12.5 million. It includes a $4 million option, plus an $8.5 million salary. None of this money is guaranteed.

2019: $14 million salary, not guaranteed.

There are no incentives, no escalators. It's a straight five-year, $70 million deal

Sportrac also posted on Twitter that DT's cap hit goes up to $13.2 million this year, so it remains to be seen how the signing bonus is spread out. In contrast, Bryant's deal lowered his cap hit this year but that means they "kicked the can" into other years. Better for us to have done it this way - good job by Elway.

Klis also mentions how the original offer to DT would have been 7 years, $100 million but less guaranteed. Interesting.

http://www.9news.com/story/sports/2015/07/15/broncos-demaryius-thomas/30205697/

To follow up on this, Over the Cap confirms DT's 2015 cap number is $13.2 million. That's the $4.5 million salary and $6.5 roster bonus as Klis mentioned, plus 1/5 of his signing bonus ($2.2 million). So that money will be prorated over the rest of the five years. Which would mean his cap number in 2016 will be $15.2 and in 2017 it will be $10.7 (a steal, at that point). That uses up all the guaranteed money, so in the unlikely event that he is complete bust, he can be cut after 2017 and cost only $4.4 million in dead money (the remaining prorated bonus money). It's the best kind of deal, since it works for both sides - well structured by Elway, good deal for DT.

VonDoom
07-15-2015, 07:03 PM
That's what a top five caliber guy goes for. Wideouts are at a premium now.

That's what I've been saying for weeks.

VonDoom
07-15-2015, 07:08 PM
I didn't see anyone post them, but these were Elway's comments from his press conference:

Cecil Lammey ‏@CecilLammey 1h1 hour ago

Elway says Demaryius deal "really started going this morning" #Broncos

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h1 hour ago

Elway said wasn't any movement from first of June until this morning. That's when talks reignited

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

John Elway on missed OTAs by Demaryius Thomas: "We'll just have to be careful with DT when he comes into training camp."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

Elway on deal impacting future deal: "All of those go into consideration when we determine what we're going to pay someone."

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 1h1 hour ago

"We're well aware of the people that we have coming up. We have a lot of good football players coming up." -- Elway, on future contracts

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 1h1 hour ago

John Elway: today's contract "was a very fair deal for both sides."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

Elway on Dez getting done first: "We had our numbers set up ... it just took a while to get to that point."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

Elway on Von Miller coming up: "We're always planning for the future. Everyone talks about us winning now ... we want to win from now on."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

Elway: "DT was the first step. We'll have a plan for Von, as well as other players. ... We'll try to hold onto as many as we can."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

Elway on talks resuming today: "We wanted to get a deal done. They knew that. Demaryius wanted to stay in Denver ...

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h1 hour ago

Elway on DT's development: "He just continues to get better. He's a hard-worker, he's smart. He's a student of the game."

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h1 hour ago

Elway on DT: "As a QB, when you look oustide to a guy 6-3 225... you get the ball in his hands and he has ability to score. on any play"

Cecil Lammey ‏@CecilLammey 1h1 hour ago

Elway says he has not yet talked to Peyton after Demaryius Thomas deal was finalized. #Broncos

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 18m18 minutes ago

More Elway: "We have a 3-year plan & a 4-year plan & we try to look into the future & see where we are so we can budget everybody in there."

Poet
07-15-2015, 07:09 PM
That's what I've been saying for weeks.

You've been right for weeks. We could honestly say 'pass catchers' are at a premium. The Patriots rarely give out big deals, but they shoved money down Gronk's throat. The Seahawks went out and traded a very fine interior offensive lineman while picking up all of Jimmy Graham's monster contract. Furthermore, Dez Bryant, for all of his transgressions, is still a coveted player and would have made big bucks had he hit the market. The Bengals are gearing up to pay Green a contract that is commensurate with his play (especially with that quarterback).

I wouldn't be shocked to see Antonio Brown, if he has another megalith year, hold out for a better deal, even though he took the deal from Pittsburgh that they offered Mike Wallace. That's the thing, really, if you are an explosive player who can take the top off of a defense, or dominate the middle of the field to the extent of the big play TE's, you're going to get paid.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-15-2015, 07:16 PM
You've been right for weeks.

Will I ever have those delicious words directed my way?

Poet
07-15-2015, 07:20 PM
Will I ever have those delicious words directed my way?

It's possible.

ShaneFalco
07-15-2015, 07:30 PM
Need to up the NFL salary cap because of dumb teams like the lions and dolphins.

UnderArmour
07-15-2015, 07:38 PM
You think Von Miller is going to get MORE money than a guy who had 22 sacks last year? He had 14 last season, which is 8 less than Houston. He's got a ways to go to catch, let alone surpass Houston's production. There are reasons to hope he has a better year this year, but it hasn't happened yet and might not.

The drug policy doesn't matter at all since the team can put a conduct clause in his contract in which, if he's busted for weed again and gets a year suspension (which will probably be the penalty), then he forfeits his signing bonus.

How can he object to that? "No! I want to retain the right under the contract to smoke a big spleef if I want, get banned by the league for a year, yet still keep my signing bonus?" :laugh:

Not even Ricky Williams ever went that far!

Houston plays in a 3-4. Von has played strictly in a 4-3. When it comes to the two of them, using sacks as a sole comparison is a major disservice to what Von has done for our defense since coming here. 4-3 linebackers schematically are at a major disadvantage when it comes to stats. Let's not sell the man short: Miller is definitely in the same class as Watt, Suh, and Houston as gamebreaking pass rushing talents in this league.

The drug policy absolutely matters because it affects hard guarantees. "We can just insert this!" and Von's agent can be like "Well, we're just not going to sign." It was rumored that Dez's deal would have clauses to protect the Cowboys in the event of something similar, but I doubt it made it to the final deal. If anything, it's a negotiating chip and nothing more.

Poet
07-15-2015, 07:40 PM
Von Miller also can get pass rush production out of lining up as a 4-3 end. In terms of being a front seven guy, he feels almost like he's ubiquitous.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-15-2015, 07:43 PM
from transcript:


On the signing affecting the salary cap in the future:

"We prepare for all those (scenarios). We look at what the value is to the Broncos, what we can afford, how that fits into the structure and how that fits into our football team. All of those things are going into consideration when we determine what we're going to pay somebody. We're well aware of the people that we have coming up. We have a lot of good football players coming up. But with Demaryius — he's obviously a big part of that and he's the first part of trying to keep this football team together. I think it was a very fair deal for both sides."

On if Von Miller's expiring contract affected talks:

"We're always planning for the future. Everyone talks about us winning now. My point is, we want to win from now on. So when we go through our budget meetings year in and year out, that's what we look at. We have a three-year plan and a four-year plan and we try to look into the future and see where we are so we can budget everybody in there to where we can keep all our great football players. That's what we want to do. We want to draft well and keep our own and fill in with free agency where we can. D.T. was the first step. We'll have a plan for Von for next year, as well as other players. We have several other really good football players that are also coming into their last year, and we'll try to hold onto as many as we can. Obviously, it's impossible to hold onto everybody in the salary cap era, but we're going to do the best we can to keep them all."

full transcript, plus video - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28489548/john-elway-demaryius-thomas-transcript

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-15-2015, 07:48 PM
It's possible.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z377/aggie2210/dumbtheresachance.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/aggie2210/media/dumbtheresachance.gif.html)

Denver Native (Carol)
07-15-2015, 08:02 PM
Additional details have trickled in to PFT regarding the contract signed by Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas.

As PFT previously has reported, Thomas gets $35 million fully guaranteed over the next two years, roughly $7 million more than the $28 million he would have earned over the next two years under the franchise tag, if the Broncos had used the tag again in 2016.

Per a league source with knowledge of the deal, $22 million will be earned by Thomas in 2015, with the other $13 million earned in 2016. By the start of the waiver period in February 2017, another $8.5 million becomes fully guaranteed. For now, that amount is guaranteed for injury only.

Also, and as first reported by Mike Klis of 9News in Denver, Thomas rejected a seven-year, $100 million offer, which would have tied Thomas up for another two years with another $30 million in non-guaranteed money.

Here’s another kicker: The guaranteed money in the Thomas deal has no offset language, which means he’ll keep the money if the Broncos move on — and likewise pocket any money any other team pays him. The Bryant deal, in contrast, has offset language.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/15/no-offsets-on-demaryius-thomas-guarantees/

Dapper Dan
07-15-2015, 08:38 PM
Damn it. KC probably got Von Miller a lot of money. We collusioned with the wrong team!

TXBRONC
07-15-2015, 08:40 PM
That's what I've been saying for weeks.

I was pretty confident from the very beginning that a deal was going to get done. When people pointed him being franchised as proof that he would gone after this year I thought the opposite because of Clady's case.

Simple Jaded
07-15-2015, 08:47 PM
Does this mean they're not trading him to Cleveland for a 1st and Alex Mack?

Btw, monster shout out to Carol and VonDoom for their huge contributions.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-15-2015, 08:51 PM
Does this mean they're not trading him to Cleveland for a 1st and Alex Mack?

Btw, monster shout out to Carol and VonDoom for their huge contributions.

What about my insightful and entertaining posts?

Simple Jaded
07-15-2015, 08:54 PM
What about my insightful and entertaining posts?

Whoot, whoot!

gregbroncs
07-15-2015, 10:23 PM
The bad news today...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13260695/kansas-city-chiefs-sign-justin-houston-landmark-dealThat is bad news. Is Von going to want more than that now?

Dapper Dan
07-15-2015, 10:29 PM
Maybe Ware will retired and we'll give his money to Von

TXBRONC
07-16-2015, 06:06 AM
What about my insightful and entertaining posts?

Insightful? :D

EastCoastBronco
07-16-2015, 06:59 AM
I wish I had 70 million dollars...

BigDaddyBronco
07-16-2015, 08:32 AM
Well DT nor Dez got Megatron money. That is fair, neither are Megatron. Good deal for both parties.

Northman
07-16-2015, 09:06 AM
Well DT nor Dez got Megatron money. That is fair, neither are Megatron. Good deal for both parties.

Exactly.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-16-2015, 10:05 AM
Insightful? :D

Lol

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-16-2015, 10:06 AM
I wish I had 70 million dollars...
I'd be pretty happy with 10 million.

Northman
07-16-2015, 10:24 AM
I'd be pretty happy with 10 million.

I would be happy with 50 grand right now. lol

Denver Native (Carol)
07-16-2015, 11:21 AM
On the signing impacting the salary cap in the future

“We prepare for all of those [scenarios]. We look at what the value is to the Broncos, what we can afford, how that fits into the structure and how that fits into our football team. All of those things are going into consideration when we determine what we’re going to pay somebody. We’re well aware of the people that we have coming up. We have a lot of good football players coming up. But with Demaryius—he’s obviously a big part of that and he’s the first part of trying to keep this football team together. I think it was a very fair deal for both sides.”

On whether OLB Von Miller’s contract situation influenced making a deal with Thomas

“We are always planning for the future. Everyone talks about us winning now, and my point is that we want to win from now on. When we go through our budget meetings year in and year out, that is what we look at. We have a three-year plan and a four-year plan, and we try to look into the future to see where we are in order to budget everybody to keep all of our great football players. That is what we want to do—draft well, keep our own and fill in with free agency where we can. D.T. was the first step. We will have a plan for Von next year as well as with other players. We have several other really good football players coming into their last year. We’ll monitor as many as we can. It’s impossible to hold on to everybody in the salary cap era, but we’re going to do the very best we can to keep them all.”

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/John-Elway-transcript-after-signing-Demaryius-Thomas/30c6340a-4f73-455d-a345-82a03ec92558

Ziggy
07-16-2015, 12:02 PM
I like how it's frontloaded. The Broncos are paying him superstar money for the next 3 years. After that, the price goes down significantly right about the time he passes the age of 30. I think it's a nice deal for both sides.

TXBRONC
07-16-2015, 02:45 PM
I like how it's frontloaded. The Broncos are paying him superstar money for the next 3 years. After that, the price goes down significantly right about the time he passes the age of 30. I think it's a nice deal for both sides.

That's typical of Elway.

Simple Jaded
07-16-2015, 03:55 PM
That's typical of Elway.

I think that former agent/cap guru has a great deal to do with this too.

EastCoastBronco
07-16-2015, 04:37 PM
I'd be pretty happy with 10 million.

I was just keeping in context...
I'm happy with a box of beer...;-)

NightTerror218
07-16-2015, 06:12 PM
I think this is Wares last yr of contract. His money will go to Von with a nice front loaded contract like DTs. With Peyton on the books it will be a tight cap yr next season.

SR
07-16-2015, 07:31 PM
I think this is Wares last yr of contract. His money will go to Von with a nice front loaded contract like DTs. With Peyton on the books it will be a tight cap yr next season.

He has two years left. He signed a three year/$30M deal. Fully guaranteed too I think.

Simple Jaded
07-16-2015, 08:41 PM
I was just keeping in context...
I'm happy with a box of beer...;-)

Ya know they put beer in cans and bottles now, it's much better that way.

VonDoom
07-16-2015, 09:15 PM
He has two years left. He signed a three year/$30M deal. Fully guaranteed too I think.

No, only $20 million was guaranteed. They spread the signing bonus out, so there would be a $1.6 million dead money hit next year but a $10 million savings if we cut him.

TXBRONC
07-16-2015, 09:55 PM
No, only $20 million was guaranteed. They spread the signing bonus out, so there would be a $1.6 million dead money hit next year but a $10 million savings if we cut him.

Just more evidence that Elway has good business sense.

VonDoom
07-16-2015, 09:57 PM
Just more evidence that Elway has good business sense.

Yeah, that deal was always a glorified 2 year, 20 million deal. I could see him staying next year but I think two years was always Elway's plan

TXBRONC
07-16-2015, 10:12 PM
Yeah, that deal was always a glorified 2 year, 20 million deal. I could see him staying next year but I think two years was always Elway's plan

If Ray can develop quickly I could see letting Ware go after this season.

Cugel
07-17-2015, 11:31 AM
Sportrac also posted on Twitter that DT's cap hit goes up to $13.2 million this year, so it remains to be seen how the signing bonus is spread out. In contrast, Bryant's deal lowered his cap hit this year but that means they "kicked the can" into other years. Better for us to have done it this way - good job by Elway.

Klis also mentions how the original offer to DT would have been 7 years, $100 million but less guaranteed. Interesting.

http://www.9news.com/story/sports/2015/07/15/broncos-demaryius-thomas/30205697/

It's not "better" to have a higher cap hit. What it means is that Jerry Jones put more money up front so their cap hit was lower. That's good for them. "Kicking the can into later years" is only bad if you're talking about an older player who can't be expected to be productive or perhaps even play for the full life of the contract. E.G. if they gave a 5 year contract to DeMarcus Ware at 32 years old. He might have 2 or 3 at most good years left, so it would be a likely dead cap-space hit in years 4 or 5 when they released him or traded him.

D.T. is 27 years old. Baring injury he's going to play out the 5 year contract and be productive until he's 32, so it's not like it would be a problem to back weight it to later years when the salary cap will be bigger.

Of course in this case years 4 and 5 are not guaranteed at all, so this is essentially a 3 year contract. It might be that D.T. wouldn't sign a longer deal or more likely Elway didn't want to extend the guarantees into year 5. But, it means a much tighter cap in 2014 and 2015, which will limit their ability to sign new FAs the next 2 years. Unless Manning retires it's going to take some creative cap accounting to get Von Miller's new 2016 contract under the cap.

Simple Jaded
07-17-2015, 03:44 PM
Seasons 6 and 7 are when WR's careers start to take a dump, according to statistics that I heard or imagined.

Valar Morghulis
07-17-2015, 03:51 PM
Seasons 6 and 7 are when WR's careers start to take a dump, according to statistics that I heard or imagined.

never let the truth get in the way of a good story

Simple Jaded
07-17-2015, 03:56 PM
never let the truth get in the way of a good story

Wouldnt dream of it, and if all else fails i can just talk out of my ass and present everything as fact.

Ravage!!!
07-17-2015, 03:58 PM
Speaking of WRs..... we have a #3 yet?

Valar Morghulis
07-17-2015, 04:00 PM
Speaking of WRs..... we have a #3 yet?

latimer?

Ravage!!!
07-17-2015, 04:25 PM
latimer?

yeah.... hopefully he's ready to step up much more than he did last season. But that seems to be the only name we have. Although, I'm assuming he'll be playing the Y while Sanders is in the slot.

TXBRONC
07-17-2015, 04:48 PM
Seasons 6 and 7 are when WR's careers start to take a dump, according to statistics that I heard or imagined.

More than likely imagined. :D

TXBRONC
07-17-2015, 04:55 PM
yeah.... hopefully he's ready to step up much more than he did last season. But that seems to be the only name we have. Although, I'm assuming he'll be playing the Y while Sanders is in the slot.

I think John Fox is a good coach but I think one of his biggest weaknesses is that he doesn't always do a good job of using young players.

Simple Jaded
07-17-2015, 05:42 PM
I'm not counting on seeing a lot of 3-wide formations, unless it's to placate Manning, looking for more 21 and 12 formations.

And if Latimer doesn't pan out that makes 3-wide even less likely, imo.

TXBRONC
07-17-2015, 06:07 PM
I'm not counting on seeing a lot of 3-wide formations, unless it's to placate Manning, looking for more 21 and 12 formations.

And if Latimer doesn't pan out that makes 3-wide even less likely, imo.

It seems likely to me that Denver will use a lot of two tight end and three wide formations pretty evenly.

Simple Jaded
07-17-2015, 10:29 PM
It seems likely to me that Denver will use a lot of two tight end and three wide formations pretty evenly.

Probably, that would be to placate Manning mostly, imo, nothing wrong with that. Shanatan's/Kubiak's offense hasn't been much of a 3-wide traditionally.

Jsteve01
07-17-2015, 10:33 PM
I'm not counting on seeing a lot of 3-wide formations, unless it's to placate Manning, looking for more 21 and 12 formations.

And if Latimer doesn't pan out that makes 3-wide even less likely, imo. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Homer, and an optimist when it comes to young locally grown talent. that said everyone had Lattimore ranked highly going to last year's draft. from all accounts you look good in camp you just couldn't grasp the entire playbook which is extremely complicated and then you factor in Mannings tendency to audible consistently it makes it a tough transition for young receiver. everyone said he was the best blocking wide receiver in last year's draft then factor in legitimate 43 speed big hands good athletic ability and I think he should be a keeper

Simple Jaded
07-17-2015, 11:33 PM
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Homer, and an optimist when it comes to young locally grown talent. that said everyone had Lattimore ranked highly going to last year's draft. from all accounts you look good in camp you just couldn't grasp the entire playbook which is extremely complicated and then you factor in Mannings tendency to audible consistently it makes it a tough transition for young receiver. everyone said he was the best blocking wide receiver in last year's draft then factor in legitimate 43 speed big hands good athletic ability and I think he should be a keeper

I like the Latimer pick, I think he'll be a player, I was just responding to the notion that he isn't the obvious #3 WR (for what ever that's worth in this offense). I think he is.

Jsteve01
07-18-2015, 12:12 AM
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Homer, and an optimist when it comes to young locally grown talent. that said everyone had Lattimore ranked highly going to last year's draft. from all accounts you look good in camp you just couldn't grasp the entire playbook which is extremely complicated and then you factor in Mannings tendency to audible consistently it makes it a tough transition for young receiver. everyone said he was the best blocking wide receiver in last year's draft then factor in legitimate 43 speed big hands good athletic ability and I think he should be a keeper

I like the Latimer pick, I think he'll be a player, I was just responding to the notion that he isn't the obvious #3 WR (for what ever that's worth in this offense). I think he is. and I apologize for obvious grammatical and spelling errors I'm using voice to text because I hate my fat fingers on mobile

Ravage!!!
07-18-2015, 09:52 AM
Probably, that would be to placate Manning mostly, imo, nothing wrong with that. Shanatan's/Kubiak's offense hasn't been much of a 3-wide traditionally.

Manning was setting NFL records for passing TDs and the NFL MVP just 2 seasons ago, its not like the guy is decrepit. So I don't think you would use 3 WR sets to "placate" Manning.... but to play to your QBs absolute strengths... passing. You have one of the greastest passers in NFL history, and still one of the best passers in the league. To NOT use that skill set in the NFL (a passing league)...when the QB is by far the most important player on the field.... would not only be a HUGE HUGE mistake, but completely irresponsible.

Simple Jaded
07-18-2015, 01:49 PM
I don't think placate is an objectionable word, Kubiak has molded his offense to the absolute strengths of a lot of different QB's and whether that's placating them or not none of those offense featured lot of 3-wide. For that reason I'm inclined to believe that Kubiak would rather not run it as much as he has to with Manning.

Fwiw, I think Manning is also giving in to what Kubiak wants to do, though I wouldn't call that placating because he really doesn't have much choice.

silkamilkamonico
07-18-2015, 04:56 PM
I don't foresee many 3 WR sets at all, considering the new offensive system and especially our questionable oline.

TXBRONC
07-20-2015, 05:34 PM
I don't foresee many 3 WR sets at all, considering the new offensive system and especially our questionable oline.

It certainly won't be as much as it has been in the past but it will still be used quite a bit.

Cugel
07-21-2015, 11:14 AM
I think John Fox is a good coach but I think one of his biggest weaknesses is that he doesn't always do a good job of using young players.

That was why Elway fired him. They had a serious difference of opinion about how good the Broncos young drafted players were. Elway drafted Sylvester Williams, Paradis, Michael Schofield and others. None of them saw any playing time.

Fox & Del Rio's position was "these guys suck. There's nothing we can do with them."

Elway's position was "we scouted these guys extensively, and we liked what we saw from them in limited pre-season action, so we want to play them and give them a chance to develop."

Fox, Del Rio and Adam Gase's position was "I'm outta here!"

Elway's position was "Good! Don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. Now I can bring in my guy, Kubiak who will agree with me about these young players."

Now this season those guys will be given a chance to play some and we'll see who was right.

BroncoJoe
07-21-2015, 11:28 AM
Hey Cugel. Were you in those meetings? You sure post like you're a part of the organization, or at least that your opinions are fact.

UnderArmour
07-21-2015, 11:35 AM
That was why Elway fired him. They had a serious difference of opinion about how good the Broncos young drafted players were. Elway drafted Sylvester Williams, Paradis, Michael Schofield and others. None of them saw any playing time.

Fox & Del Rio's position was "these guys suck. There's nothing we can do with them."

Elway's position was "we scouted these guys extensively, and we liked what we saw from them in limited pre-season action, so we want to play them and give them a chance to develop."

Fox, Del Rio and Adam Gase's position was "I'm outta here!"

Elway's position was "Good! Don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. Now I can bring in my guy, Kubiak who will agree with me about these young players."

Now this season those guys will be given a chance to play some and we'll see who was right.

The reason Fox isn't Head Coach anymore:

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ngnAQLLqCq0_pKiRiBXNsuTqeco=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2926236/shot_1_standing.0.png

It was a touchdown if the team had played with any heart in that playoff game. It was depressing to watch a team come out with 0 heart and 0 intensity. I'm not going to fault Emmanuel because he kept an angle on his guy, but DT really screwed us by not playing disciplined ball. Letting up on a 4th and 1 like that, especially in a playoff game is not something that should happen on any football team at any level. That falls on coaching.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-21-2015, 11:35 AM
Cugel may be speculating a bit, but there is a lot of historical evidence that Fox sticks with aging veterans to a fault. One Panthers fan warned us of this when Fox was hired.

However lumping Sly in with that group isn't accurate. He's received a lot of playing time the last two years.

Buff
07-21-2015, 11:58 AM
Fox's coaching philosophies are dated across the board. He's a run-first and stop-the-run defensive coach in a pass-first league. He is overly conservative on 4th down when innovative teams are trending in the other direction. He is overly committed to veterans when the best teams are consistently getting younger.

He was a good stopgap for us after the McDaniels disaster when we really needed an adult with some consistency. I suspect he'll be an improvement in Chicago as well. But he has a low ceiling in terms of the value he can bring.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
07-21-2015, 12:00 PM
Fox's coaching philosophies are dated across the board. He's a run-first and stop-the-run defensive coach in a pass-first league. He is overly conservative on 4th down when innovative teams are trending in the other direction. He is overly committed to veterans when the best teams are consistently getting younger.

He was a good stopgap for us after the McDaniels disaster when we really needed an adult with some consistency. I suspect he'll be an improvement in Chicago as well. But he has a low ceiling in terms of the value he can bring.

Well stated-

TXBRONC
07-21-2015, 12:52 PM
Cugel may be speculating a bit, but there is a lot of historical evidence that Fox sticks with aging veterans to a fault. One Panthers fan warned us of this when Fox was hired.

However lumping Sly in with that group isn't accurate. He's received a lot of playing time the last two years.

I remember that Panthers fan saying telling us when Fox was hired.

JPPT1974
07-21-2015, 04:55 PM
Glad that DT got it done. Now onto football!