Possible collusion between Broncos and Cowboys over WR contracts [Archive]

VonDoom

07-10-2015, 03:45 PM

This isn't good, if true.

Adam Schefter
2 mins ·

Story on possible collusion between Cowboys and Broncos:

NFLPA is reviewing information to determine whether there was collusion between the Denver Broncos and Dallas Cowboys on the unsettled contractual situations of franchise WRS Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant, per an NFLPA official. The NFLPA believes the Broncos and Cowboys had contact about each players’ contract when the collective bargaining agreement prohibits such contact. The NFLPA now is trying to determine if collusion did occur and when to possibly file a claim. The deadline for the WRs to sign long-term deals is Wednesday of next week.

https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/985421611510480

Poet

07-10-2015, 03:47 PM

I wonder how big the penalties could be?

I doubt that the Broncos did such a thing, though.

VonDoom

07-10-2015, 03:50 PM

I wonder how big the penalties could be? .

Knowing Goodell, probably totally arbitrary. That's what worries me the most, actually. You don't want to do anything to get on his radar.

UnderArmour

07-10-2015, 04:03 PM

VonDoom

07-10-2015, 04:09 PM

Good luck proving it.
NFLPA: "But, we have call logs!!!!"
Broncos: "Uh... We were just talking about swapping 7th round picks, veteran players, or something like that..."
Cowboys: "Yeah, something like that..."

That's kind of my thinking as well. They would need something definitive in order to punish them

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 04:43 PM

Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant and Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas are both free agents, but neither is really “free” because of the franchise tag. If one player signs a long-term contract, it could set the market and help the other in negotiations. And so it could be beneficial to both the Cowboys and the Broncos to make sure that neither team gives its franchise receiver a big-time deal.

But if the Cowboys and Broncos discussed such a deal, that would be collusion. And the NFL Players Association is investigating whether that happened: Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that the NFLPA believes the Broncos and Cowboys had discussions about Bryant’s and Thomas’s contracts, in violation of the collective bargaining agreement.

If there’s proof of collusion, Bryant and Thomas could sue for damages. But collusion can be hard to prove.

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/10/nflpa-concerned-about-cowboys-broncos-colluding-on-wr-contracts/

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 04:48 PM

Two of the five remaining unsigned franchise-tagged wide receivers, the Dallas Cowboys' Dez Bryant and the Denver Broncos' Demaryius Thomas, share a lot of similar traits and have figured to land similar long-term contracts at some point.

Now the connection between the two players has deepened, as ESPN's Adam Schefter is reporting that the NFLPA is investigating possible collusion between the Cowboys and Broncos over their unsettled contract situations.

The CBA prohibits teams from discussing these kinds of financial matters over unsigned players, and from the NFLPA perspective you can understand why. The last thing the union wants is two teams discussing financial parameters for long-term offers for their star players. The union wants its marquee players to sign bigger-money deals because what's good for the goose — even with a finite pool of money under the salary cap — is good for the gander.

AND

The Mike Wallace deal has thrown the receiver market out of whack, and really, this offseason the entire position has seen a reshaping among the top contracts with wideouts getting cut, traded or outright released.

full article - http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cowboys--broncos-might-have-colluded-over-dez-bryant--demaryius-thomas-deals-211302501.html

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

07-10-2015, 04:51 PM

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/10/nflpa-concerned-about-cowboys-broncos-colluding-on-wr-contracts/

How can they prove they had conversations? That would require someone going on record....."sources tell us" won't fly.

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 04:59 PM

How can they prove they had conversations? That would require someone going on record....."sources tell us" won't fly.

Good question.

BroncoJoe

07-10-2015, 05:01 PM

Good. It's ridiculous that one or two players get 20-30% of the cap money.

Valar Morghulis

07-10-2015, 05:01 PM

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 05:07 PM

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- At the moment, the deal everybody says they want to get done isn't done.

On the surface, the task of finding common ground between the Denver Broncos and wide receiver Demaryius Thomas for a long-term contract doesn’t seem all that complicated. The Broncos' top football decision-maker, John Elway, has said several times in recent months the team wants to sign Thomas to a long-term deal. Coach Gary Kubiak has said he believes a deal will get done, and wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders, who shares an agent with Thomas, said he believes a deal is "closer and closer."

AND

Calvin Johnson has the largest contract for any wide receiver in the league -- a seven-year, $113.45 million deal he signed in 2012 that includes $48.8 million in guaranteed money. Mike Wallace is in the third-year of a five-year deal for $60 million that has $30 million guaranteed, and Jeremy Maclin signed a five-year deal for $55 million with the Kansas City Chiefs in March that includes $22.5 million guaranteed.

Thomas’ representatives are thinking about something on the order of Johnson’s deal rather than the other two. Johnson’s deal averages $16.21 million per year, compared to $12 million per year for Wallace and $11 million per year for Maclin, who had the biggest deal signed in free agency this year at the position.

full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/13712/deadline-for-broncos-to-get-a-deal-for-demaryius-thomas-is-closing-in

Poet

07-10-2015, 05:09 PM

I don't think the Broncos are going to give him Calvin Johnson money...

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 05:22 PM

Creative Artists Agency is finalizing a deal to acquire Todd France’s Five Star Athletes Management, according to Sports Business Daily’s Liz Mullen. France represents nearly 50 NFL players, including Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas and cornerback Aqib Talib.

Per Mullen’s sources, France, who re-acquired Five Star Athletes from Terry Pegula in September 2014 after selling it to him in 2011, has started to tell his clients that he will be joining CAA Sports as early as August.

CAA was ranked by Forbes as the most valuable sports agency in the world in 2014. Its football division, which is led by Jimmy Sexton and Tom Condon (the agent to Peyton and Eli Manning), is said to be more valuable than any other agency.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/07/10/demaryius-thomas-agent-finalizing-deal-to-sell-agency-to-caa-per-report/34481/

This article was just posted on the DP early this afternoon

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 05:53 PM

The Broncos have not been contacted by the NFL Players Association about allegedly colluding with the Dallas Cowboys regarding longterm contracts for receivers Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant.

ESPN reported Friday that the NFLPA is reviewing whether the teams engaged in prohibited contact about the contracts of Thomas and Bryant, who were franchise tagged in March and are seeking multi-year deals by July 15. The Broncos declined comment on the ESPN report.

Per the collective bargaining agreement that was ratified in 2011, an NFL team cannot communicate with another team "concerning the terms or conditions of employment offered to any player for inclusion, or included in a Player Contract."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28466475/broncos-not-contacted-regarding-alleged-collusion-cowboys

topscribe

07-10-2015, 06:03 PM

The NSA knows.
lol

tomjonesrocks

07-10-2015, 06:08 PM

Is there anyone here that thinks this deal gets done?

MOtorboat

07-10-2015, 06:09 PM

What if they were talking about trading Thomas for Bryant!

ZOMG!

Valar Morghulis

07-10-2015, 06:14 PM

Is there anyone here that thinks this deal gets done?

I kinda hope not.

WR production can be achieved for much less than 14/15/16 mil a year. Especially someone who has issues catching the ball.

If he won't take 12 - pay von, invest in the oline and let him walk.

:couch:

MOtorboat

07-10-2015, 06:17 PM

Is there anyone here that thinks this deal gets done?

Absolutely not me. I'm bracing for both Thomas and Miller to walk out the door soon.

Timmy!

07-10-2015, 06:20 PM

Is there anyone here that thinks this deal gets done?

Nostratimmy has forseen it.

Northman

07-10-2015, 09:08 PM

#Collusiongate

Denver Native (Carol)

07-10-2015, 09:52 PM

Yes, the NFLPA is investigating whether the Broncos and Cowboys have colluded in connection with their negotiations regarding long-term offers for receiver Demaryius Thomas and receiver Dez Bryant, respectively. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the suspicions flow from a mutual rejection by both teams of Calvin Johnson’s contract with the Lions.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, both teams have taken the position that proposals made on behalf of the players are too high, explaining that Johnson’s deal doesn’t reflect the receiver market because that contract was influenced by the salary-cap numbers generated by Johnson’s enormous rookie contract from 2007, four years before the launch of the current rookie wage scale.

That coincidence hardly would be enough to prove collusion standing alone. Any team trying to negotiate a fair deal for a receiver would resist paying Calvin Johnson money ($16 million per year) simply because Johnson’s deal was driven by other factors.

In this case, the source tells PFT that the NFLPA has credible information the Broncos and Cowboys have been communicating to set, control, or manipulate the relevant market — elite receivers who entered the league in 2010. Of course, nothing prevents the players and their agents from comparing notes and devising strategies; Thomas and Bryant soon will be represented by the same firm, given reports that Todd France (who represents Thomas) will be joining CAA (which represents Bryant).

But while it’s fair for players and agents to work together to push the market higher, teams can’t work together to keep the market lower.

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/10/calvin-johnsons-deal-at-the-heart-of-nflpas-collusion-concerns/

GEM

07-10-2015, 10:39 PM

Knowing Goodell, probably totally arbitrary. That's what worries me the most, actually. You don't want to do anything to get on his radar.

Right? Just ask Kraft, Billy Boy, and Tommy what being on the radar feels like. We should be shaking in our boots. :laugh:

Pudge

07-10-2015, 10:46 PM

Right? Just ask Kraft, Billy Boy, and Tommy what being on the radar feels like. We should be shaking in our boots. :laugh:

Well it might help if we had an owner that was buddy ol pals with the comish

07-11-2015, 07:11 AM

I see the word collusion and stuff in all of these articles then nothing relevant to it after. Seems like a non story to me

GEM

07-11-2015, 09:29 AM

Well it might help if we had an owner that was buddy ol pals with the comish

Kraft makes ol' Rogy a big bowl of Mac n cheese and Rogy does whatever he wants. Then Kraft rubs his hands together, laughs an evil laugh and says like taking candy from a baby.

NightTrainLayne

07-11-2015, 10:43 AM

This is the NFLPA trying to help a couple of its members negotiate.

It can't hurt to have both teams looking over their shoulder worried that if they don't get a deal done that they'll be penalized for "collusion".

The NFLPA is angle-shooting.

TXBRONC

07-11-2015, 10:58 AM

Kraft makes ol' Rogy a big bowl of Mac n cheese and Rogy does whatever he wants. Then Kraft rubs his hands together, laughs an evil laugh and says like taking candy from a baby.

That isn't same Kraft. The owner of the Pasties built his fortune in plastics (I think).

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

07-11-2015, 11:00 AM

That isn't same Kraft. The owner of the Pasties built his fortune in plastics (I think).

I'm pretty sure it is the same Kraft. The dude is pretty wealthy.

TXBRONC

07-11-2015, 11:08 AM

I'm pretty sure it is the same Kraft. The dude is pretty wealthy.

I'm afraid not.

Robert Kraft got his start working at his father-in-law’s packaging material company. He eventually bought the business and merged it with International Forest Products, a separate packaging and recycling company he started. All his ventures are currently under the umbrella of The Kraft Group, a holding company that also controls various real estate and entertainment ventures. His estimated net worth is $2.3 billion.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52598/how-owners-all-32-nfl-teams-made-their-money

BroncoJoe

07-11-2015, 11:09 AM

I'm pretty sure it is the same Kraft. The dude is pretty wealthy.

I always thought that too, but he is Chairman and CFO of The Kraft Group. Not affiliated with Kraft Foods.

Simple Jaded

07-11-2015, 06:53 PM

Trade him.

Apparently he wants Megatron money, gfy DT, Megatron isn't worth Megatron money.

Poet

07-11-2015, 06:58 PM

Megatron wasn't worth that money. They gave him that contract based off of his rookie contract, and that logic, which they also used with Suh, was why Suh ended up being able to get waaaaaay more money from Miami than Detroit.

Their front office was only pretending to be competent for a few years. :lol:

OrangeHoof

07-11-2015, 08:00 PM

Well, you know the Cowboys heard that we might be shopping Peyton Manning and wanted to know if he was available, that's all. You know Jerry.

VonDoom

07-13-2015, 07:02 PM

Alleged collusion stems from a conversation between Dez Bryant and Cowboys' COO Stephen Jones:

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Jones explained to Bryant that the Calvin Johnson contract, which represents the current peak of the receiver market, has no relevance to other receivers because it was driven by the pre-rookie wage scale deal that Johnson signed when he was drafted by the Lions in 2007. And then Jones told Dez, per the source, that Jones talked to Broncos G.M. John Elway about the situation.

Because the Broncos also have a franchise-tagged receiver in Demaryius Thomas, the admission that Jones and Elway communicated about the situation constitutes evidence of collusion.

The Cowboys could not immediately be reached for comment. Given that Jones denied the report that Dez provided an ultimatum during the conversation, it’s safe to assume Jones will strongly deny that he admitted talking to Elway about the receiver market.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/13/source-collusion-evidence-comes-from-conversation-between-dez-bryant-and-stephen-jones/

This "source" sounds like Dez Bryant trying to paint himself as a victim here.

Cugel

07-13-2015, 11:27 PM

Absolutely not me. I'm bracing for both Thomas and Miller to walk out the door soon.

Neither will go, and it's absurd to wish that the Broncos best players would leave because you're pouting and butt-hurt that they want to get paid. :coffee:

D.T. is franchised this year. He either signs a new contract or plays for the franchise tag amount this year and is an UFA next year.

Von Miller will be franchised next year and they will try and negotiate a new contract with him. If they were unsuccessful, they would probably make him play under the franchise tag and try again to negotiate a new contract in 2017. But, they could always franchise him for a 2nd season if they absolutely had to.

That would poison relations with him, so they won't want to do that. NO WAY they are letting Von Miller go. He's a once in a generation talent. There hasn't been a LB in the NFL with his blend of speed and agility since Derrick Thomas. Other than J.J. Watt there's not another defensive player in the NFL who's as good or better.

FanInAZ

07-14-2015, 12:53 AM

Alleged collusion stems from a conversation between Dez Bryant and Cowboys' COO Stephen Jones:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/13/source-collusion-evidence-comes-from-conversation-between-dez-bryant-and-stephen-jones/

This "source" sounds like Dez Bryant trying to paint himself as a victim here.

The “source” obviously thinks that JJ is as stupid as a Bond villain.

“Bond, I’ve captured you & I’m about to kill you, but before I do, I’m going to tell you everything you need to know to stop my plan. Then I’m going to leave you alone with my incompetent henchman, who’s supposed to kill you, but you will easily pull a fast one on & kill him first. The 2 guards outside the door are not only so severely hearing impaired that they won’t hear the commotion inside, but will also have severely delayed cognitive processing that you’ll be able to kill them both before they have a chance to respond. Once you complete your escape, you’ll be able to stop my plan.”

I don’t know how JJ gained his fortune so he could buy the Cowboys, but I guarantee that he didn’t do it be being stupid. That includes not being stupid enough to reveal information to someone that he’s negotiating with that could be used against him. JJ knows the rules. If he knows that he is, or is going be breaking the rules, he’s not going to disclose it to his "victim."

DenBronx

07-14-2015, 01:02 AM

Cugel

07-14-2015, 07:11 AM

We can tag DT again next year.

Instead of Von Miller? No. Just no. :coffee:

07-14-2015, 07:15 AM

Neither will go, and it's absurd to wish that the Broncos best players would leave because you're pouting and butt-hurt that they want to get paid. :coffee: D.T. is franchised this year. He either signs a new contract or plays for the franchise tag amount this year and is an UFA next year. Von Miller will be franchised next year and they will try and negotiate a new contract with him. If they were unsuccessful, they would probably make him play under the franchise tag and try again to negotiate a new contract in 2017. But, they could always franchise him for a 2nd season if they absolutely had to. That would poison relations with him, so they won't want to do that. NO WAY they are letting Von Miller go. He's a once in a generation talent. There hasn't been a LB in the NFL with his blend of speed and agility since Derrick Thomas. Other than J.J. Watt there's not another defensive player in the NFL who's as good or better.

Or he doesn't sign the franchise tag and sits the year out.

And I would argue your point about Miller as well. Like Kuechley, the dude that had 20 sacks for KC last year, Patrick Peterson, and a couple other players are right up there in terms of defensive players who are as good or better/as important to their team or more.

Cugel

07-14-2015, 07:18 AM

As for Jerry Jones, like virtually everybody else in the top 1% he was born rich and then used his inside connections to make a lot more money. His father owned an insurance company, and he had so much money than in 1967 he had the opportunity to buy the San Diego Chargers, but declined. He went from being the Executive Vice President of his dad's company to a prominent position in the oil industry and then made billions and bought the Cowboys.

Nothing in any of that means he knows anything about how to be a Football GM. He's famous for doing stupid things because he assumes he's smarter than everybody else just because he has more money. It's actually a typical rich man's disease. They think that their success (which most of the time is either entirely or partly due to inherited millions), proves they are smarter than other people.

Then they go out and prove the opposite. His meddling insistence on running the team his way is exactly like that other interfering idiot owner, Dan Snyder. Thank God the Broncos Pat Bowlen was smart enough not to try and run the team.

Of course, Jerry Jones is dumb enough to do something like collude. Doesn't mean he 100% did it, but he's certainly capable of it.

Cugel

07-14-2015, 07:27 AM

Or he doesn't sign the franchise tag and sits the year out.

And I would argue your point about Miller as well. Like Kuechley, the dude that had 20 sacks for KC last year, Patrick Peterson, and a couple other players are right up there in terms of defensive players who are as good or better/as important to their team or more.

Of course Miller could sit out, but the Broncos could simply franchise him AGAIN and he'd have to sit out for 2 years and lose something close to $30 million. D.T. would lose a guaranteed $25 million if he sat out that long.

As for other players, you are going by simple athletic ability. CB is not as important as pass-rusher or OLT.

Among pass-rushers, the Chiefs have Justin Houston who had 22 sacks last year. Great year, but he's not considered as good a player as Miller, at least for now. His best previous year was 11 sacks. We'll see if he continues at the same pace as before or falls off as teams focus on blocking him this season.

But, it doesn't really matter. Miller's price will be set by what other FAs get, and Justin Houston isn't in his contract year.

07-14-2015, 08:45 AM

It's a matter of opinion but I think your notion that a corner isn't as important as a pass rusher is silly at best.

DenBronx

07-14-2015, 09:03 AM

It's a matter of opinion but I think your notion that a corner isn't as important as a pass rusher is silly at best.

Especially in a pass happy league. Both important positions and different animals on the field.

DenBronx

07-14-2015, 09:04 AM

We can tag DT again next year.

Instead of Von Miller? No. Just no. :coffee:

Who said anything about instead?

VonDoom

07-14-2015, 09:38 AM

Who said anything about instead?

Because you can only tag one of them.

VonDoom

07-14-2015, 10:22 AM

If Dez Bryant and Demaryius Thomas don't sign long-term contracts with their respective teams by Wednesday's deadline for franchise players to do so, the NFL players' union plans to move ahead with collusion charges against those teams, a source close to the situation told ESPN.

The NFLPA informed the Dallas Cowboys and the Denver Broncos on Monday that they need to preserve any e-mails, phone records, texts and records of other communication between the two teams, according to the source.

The union says it has credible information that the Cowboys and Broncos have had conversations about the negotiations of long-term deals for franchise wide receivers Bryant and Thomas, and the CBA grants the union the right to discovery in the case of a credible collusion claim.

The rest: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13253696/nfl-players-union-pursue-collusion-charges-dez-bryant-dallas-cowboys-demaryius-thomas-denver-broncos-sign-long-term-deals

BroncoJoe

07-14-2015, 10:25 AM

Unions suck.

weazel

07-14-2015, 10:28 AM

Good teams are built from the lines out... paying a receiver that much money is a waste, let him sign with the Bengals or the Raiders. Use that money on the bid dudes.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

07-14-2015, 10:44 AM

So, the NFLPA is going to put the credibility of Dez up against Elway and Jones? Good luck with that.

Yeah, I'm sure the word of a guy who has a hired baby sister will hold up in a court of law.

Buff

07-14-2015, 10:57 AM

If we lose a draft pick because of Dallas' incompetence I will be seriously annoyed.

chazoe60

07-14-2015, 11:01 AM

WRs are ****-gobbling little ****tards, I hate almost all of them. I wish they all had the attitude of Rod Smith instead being little Deion clones.

tomjonesrocks

07-14-2015, 11:46 AM

If we lose a draft pick because of Dallas' incompetence I will be seriously annoyed.

Yeah would be awesome to lose DT AND a draft pick.

Just a shit offseason from a personnel perspective really.

VonDoom

07-14-2015, 12:40 PM

FWIW, Troy Renck tweeted that the Broncos have "zero concern" about this.

VonDoom

07-15-2015, 02:59 PM

The rest: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13253696/nfl-players-union-pursue-collusion-charges-dez-bryant-dallas-cowboys-demaryius-thomas-denver-broncos-sign-long-term-deals

Okay, so they both signed long term deals. Will the NFLPA go ahead with collusion charges or let it go now that everyone is making big bucks?

Northman

07-15-2015, 03:01 PM

Okay, so they both signed long term deals. Will the NFLPA go ahead with collusion charges or let it go now that everyone is making big bucks?

Chances are they let it go because the players finally got signed.

Buff

07-15-2015, 03:11 PM

Okay, so they both signed long term deals. Will the NFLPA go ahead with collusion charges or let it go now that everyone is making big bucks?

They will most certainly let it go because it would be moronic to bite the hand that feeds. Besides - it was just posturing by Dez trying to use any leverage he had, and the NFLPA will always go along for the ride if it benefits a player at the expense of the owners.