Broncos don't expect Demaryius Thomas at minicamp

[Denver Native (Carol)]

KUSA—Some how, some way, the Broncos have to reach a long-term deal with receiver Demaryius Thomas.

If Thomas plays on the $12.823 million franchise tag this year, then next year the Broncos will have a decision to make. The decision: Demaryius Thomas or Von Miller?

Both would be free agents and the Broncos would only be able tag one.

Signing Thomas to a multi-year deal, though, won't easy. It will be expensive. The Broncos haven't signed Thomas yet and because there isn't an agreement, he won't be attending the team's three-day mandatory minicamp that runs Tuesday through Thursday.

rest - http://www.9news.com/story/sports/2015/06/08/demaryius-thomas-broncos-minicamp/28700851/

[weazel]

ya I wouldn't show up if I was only making 13 million a year as well.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think the 13 mil should be split over every day of mandatory activity - and every no show resulted in a deduction. The "business side" of NFL is still something i struggle with.

[BroncoWave]

ya I wouldn't show up if I was only making 13 million a year as well.

Yeah but on the flip side, if he blows his knee out this year on the franchise tag, there goes his next contract. That's why it makes sense for him to hold out for a new deal now if he can get it.

[Northman]

ya I wouldn't show up if I was only making 13 million a year as well.

:lol:

[weazel]

Yeah but on the flip side, if he blows his knee out this year on the franchise tag, there goes his next contract. That's why it makes sense for him to hold out for a new deal now if he can get it.

no I get it, it still just blows my mind.

[tomjonesrocks]

Based on the track record this offseason I expect DT plays on the franchise tag this year and is gone next.

[DenBronx]

Gary Kubiak confident Broncos will get deal done with Demaryius Thomas.

From NBC Sports Talk for Android:

Gary Kubiak says he’s “confident” Broncos get a Demaryius Thomas deal done
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/09/gary-kubiak-says-hes-confident-broncos-get-a-demaryius-thomas-deal-done/

[DenBronx]

If they get a deal done with DT this year then we can easily tag Miller next year. Then Manning probably wont be here making it easy to long term VM as well.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- In what has been the most pronounced showing of optimism in the negotiations between the Denver Broncos and Pro Bowl wide receiver Demaryius Thomas, Broncos coach Gary Kubiak said following Tuesday's minicamp practice he's "very confident" a deal will get done before the Broncos open training camp in late July.

Some of Thomas' more high-profile teammates, players like Emmanuel Sanders, Von Miller and Peyton Manning, have expressed their feelings in recent weeks that Thomas should get the contract he "deserves" and Broncos executive vice president of football operations/general manager John Elway has consistently said the two sides would work something out.

But Kubiak said Tuesday that Thomas has the team's playbook, has seen plenty of the practice video and will be as ready as he can be when the two sides come to an agreement. The Broncos opened their three-day mandatory minicamp Tuesday.

rest - plus video - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13045803/gary-kubiak-denver-broncos-coach-very-confident-wr-demaryius-thomas-re-sign

[Slick]

Yeah but on the flip side, if he blows his knee out this year on the franchise tag, there goes his next contract. That's why it makes sense for him to hold out for a new deal now if he can get it.

It would be pretty hard to live the rest of your life with only 13 million dollars.

[BroncoWave]

It would be pretty hard to live the rest of your life with only 13 million dollars.

For someone like you and me yeah we would take 13 million and be happy for the rest of our lives. But you and I aren't elite athletes with the chance to earn 5 or 10 times that over our careers.

What he is doing right now is absolutely the best business decision for him, and basically every player every year who is in his situation does the same thing. It's just smart business.

[Poet]

For someone like you and me yeah we would take 13 million and be happy for the rest of our lives. But you and I aren't elite athletes with the chance to earn 5 or 10 times that over our careers.

What he is doing right now is absolutely the best business decision for him, and basically every player every year who is in his situation does the same thing. It's just smart business.

yup. We also haven't worked our entire lives as an elite athlete and dedicated ourselves like he has. Easy to say what you would do with other people's money and chances.

[Slick]

For someone like you and me yeah we would take 13 million and be happy for the rest of our lives. But you and I aren't elite athletes with the chance to earn 5 or 10 times that over our careers.

What he is doing right now is absolutely the best business decision for him, and basically every player every year who is in his situation does the same thing. It's just smart business.

Oh, I agree, and I'd do the same thing if I were him.

When I read you post I interpreted it like "if he blows out his knee next year, his life is over." ... and after watching that 30 for 30 about athletes being broke, it's made me lose any sympathy for those guys and be much more cynical about pro athletes, even on my favorite teams.

I probably should have kept that last comment to myself.

[BroncoWave]

Oh, I agree, and I'd do the same thing if I were him.

When I read you post I interpreted it like "if he blows out his knee next year, his life is over." ... and after watching that 30 for 30 about athletes being broke, it's made me lose any sympathy for those guys and be much more cynical about pro athletes, even on my favorite teams.

I probably should have kept that last comment to myself.

Yeah, I'm not saying his life would be over, just that it's in his best interests to protect himself as much as possible against future injury.

[Poet]

Oh, I agree, and I'd do the same thing if I were him.

When I read you post I interpreted it like "if he blows out his knee next year, his life is over." ... and after watching that 30 for 30 about athletes being broke, it's made me lose any sympathy for those guys and be much more cynical about pro athletes, even on my favorite teams.

I probably should have kept that last comment to myself.

The fact that it happens so often indicates to me that the pitfalls are so common that it's not just about the individual athletes.

[BroncoWave]

The fact that it happens so often indicates to me that the pitfalls are so common that it's not just about the individual athletes.

It's the lottery winner syndrome. Many of these pro athletes come from poor upbringings where they never had a dime growing up, then are suddenly thrust into all of this money and fame. They just don't know how to manage money because they have never had to before.

[Poet]

It's the lottery winner syndrome. Many of these pro athletes come from poor upbringings where they never had a dime growing up, then are suddenly thrust into all of this money and fame. They just don't know how to manage money because they have never had to before.

They don't have any business sense in terms of what to do with that money when they don't want to waste it. Athletes often have their money embezzled (and to be fair, it's hard to catch it while it's happening) or just go bust in terms of doing other businesses.

Another issue that you hear about a lot is just having a big heart. Athletes often times super splurge on family and friends.

[Slick]

The fact that it happens so often indicates to me that the pitfalls are so common that it's not just about the individual athletes.

Yeah, it's common that they piss away their free college education that others would love to have, or the programs the NFL has for rookies.

[weazel]

For someone like you and me yeah we would take 13 million and be happy for the rest of our lives. But you and I aren't elite athletes with the chance to earn 5 or 10 times that over our careers.

What he is doing right now is absolutely the best business decision for him, and basically every player every year who is in his situation does the same thing. It's just smart business.

speak for yourself, I'm all-pro baby. I got me a scholarship!

[Northman]

speak for yourself, I'm all-pro baby. I got me a scholarship!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZjK6dnZcFk

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, it's common that they piss away their free college education that others would love to have, or the programs the NFL has for rookies.

The NFL hasn't had these rookie programs for forever. These stats about players going broke after retiring cover players that started long before those types of programs were in place.

I think it's pretty unfair to just lump them in a pile and call them all dumb for going broke. Like king said, a lot of times they go broke from trying to do the smart thing and investing and getting burned. Or by being too generous to their friends and family. I don't think either one of those should warrant the criticism you are giving them.

It's really easy to say what you would do differently when you had a very different upbringing and background and situations than many of these athletes do.

[weazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZjK6dnZcFk

lol that is exactly what I was referring to. That's my favorite quote in that movie

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

DT wants to set his mom up for life when she gets out of prison. I don't blame him for getting what he can.

[Slick]

I hope they get a long term deal done.

Sorry for sidetracking the thread.

[Poet]

Yeah, it's common that they piss away their free college education that others would love to have, or the programs the NFL has for rookies.

Schools use the kids for money. So when a kid is growing up and they have that kind of potential they typically aren't expected to have to do schoolwork. This is gets more and more common the higher the education goes and probably hits its highest point in high school and college. Is that the kid's fault? Is that the young adult's fault? One strong example of this is Antonio Cromartie admitting that not only did he not take his tests in college or high school but he could barely read when he was in college.

[Slick]

Schools use the kids for money. So when a kid is growing up and they have that kind of potential they typically aren't expected to have to do schoolwork. This is gets more and more common the higher the education goes and probably hits its highest point in high school and college. Is that the kid's fault? Is that the young adult's fault? One strong example of this is Antonio Cromartie admitting that not only did he not take his tests in college or high school but he could barely read when he was in college.

Okay. I waited a couple of days to respond to this in case the thread got back on topic.

Let me answer your questions first. No, it's neither the kid's or the young adult's fault that they are coddled at that point in their lives.

Antonio Cromartie is an interesting case study to say the least. It sounds to me like he had low personal expectations about his education. Basically, he didn't give a damn. They don't force athletes to not take tests. If he wanted to he could have tried. The problem is he didn't.

Now, I'm going to assume (because he has 10 or 12 kids, depending on which source you use, with 8 different women) that his father was also nothing more than a sperm donor. So maybe he didn't have that important father figure in his life, telling him to also get an education, because he too is one injury away from never playing the game again in his life.

I just feel that even though the schools exploit the athletes to an extent, they're still in college and could very easily get a degree if they put forth the effort, and the NFL programs for rookies didn't start last year, they've been around for a while now.

Now if you want to talk about trying to do 15 hours in a semester while you're playing football on Saturday afternoons/nights, Thursday nights, travel times and all that, I would agree that it would be almost impossible to handle that type of workload and the demands of being a college football player.


They should probably start allowing those kids to take an extremely light class load in the fall semester and then hit it hard in spring and summer. We both know the schools don't really care as long as the team is making money for the school, but they should, and the kids should too.

[Poet]

Okay. I waited a couple of days to respond to this in case the thread got back on topic.

Let me answer your questions first. No, it's neither the kid's or the young adult's fault that they are coddled at that point in their lives.

Antonio Cromartie is an interesting case study to say the least. It sounds to me like he had low personal expectations about his education. Basically, he didn't give a damn. They don't force athletes to not take tests. If he wanted to he could have tried. The problem is he didn't.

Now, I'm going to assume (because he has 10 or 12 kids, depending on which source you use, with 8 different women) that his father was also nothing more than a sperm donor. So maybe he didn't have that important father figure in his life, telling him to also get an education, because he too is one injury away from never playing the game again in his life.

I just feel that even though the schools exploit the athletes to an extent, they're still in college and could very easily get a degree if they put forth the effort, and the NFL programs for rookies didn't start last year, they've been around for a while now.

Now if you want to talk about trying to do 15 hours in a semester while you're playing football on Saturday afternoons/nights, Thursday nights, travel times and all that, I would agree that it would be almost impossible to handle that type of workload and the demands of being a college football player.


They should probably start allowing those kids to take an extremely light class load in the fall semester and then hit it hard in spring and summer. We both know the schools don't really care as long as the team is making money for the school, but they should, and the kids should too.

I don't put the blame of 'low expectations' on someone when they're a kid. When the people who are in charge of your education tell you it's alright to essentially go to school and do nothing, what do you think most young people are going to do? Especially when they're a star athlete? We also don't know if he did or didn't try. I'll give you a personal example - when I was a child I had an issue with my eyes. The physical issue manifested itself in such a way that I had symptoms that were comparable to dyslexia. Now how I got past that was by reading for two hours a day every day AFTER school. I had the joy and privilege of having and English professor and librarian for a mother. That means that there were a ton of books in the house, I had a nice couch to read on, I had a loving parent who would read the words with me and listen to me vent because I would get so frustrated that I couldn't read. This also included special reading classes given to me in the first grade. At the time my school district was pretty solid. A few years later and some standardized test I took in the fifth grade put me up in 98th percentile for reading at my grade. I read at a high school level in the fifth grade. I had two good parents. I had books. I had real teachers. I had a system that was set up for me to succeed in.

You wanna bet that the majority of these athletes, which we know many of them come from poverty, had nothing like that? I'll make that bet any day of the week. A child's inclination is not often lined up with the big picture of what's good for them. So by the time that person makes their way to college, and their future is nothing but football or bust, well I'm fairly certain they're pretty hosed. I'll give you another example - I have a friend who is really smart. However, how he wrote was not commensurate his his arguments and thoughts. He was educated in a shitty public school in a shitty and poor little town. I edited his papers for him, heavily I might add, because of this and slowly taught him how to write better. He graduated last year. So this guy, far more intelligent than I, in his early thirties, had issues with writing.

The world that you live in when you are young carries with you. So when you say that the kids could get a degree if they tried really hard, well, maybe Except many of them end up with degrees without a hot job market. Many of them play just long enough to enter the draft at that. If you're used like that, and your career ends, do you think the school will be so helpful and just hand out a degree? Shit, the job market for having a degree in general isn't that hot.

In this argument it sounds like you see how more personal accountability would solve the problem. I see a situation that has a massive chance for the same consistent results. When the reality is such that many will fail into the same pitfalls then I stop worrying about personal accountability and start worrying about the actual reality.

[Northman]

I would say you both are right with some of your points.

[Poet]

I would say you both are right with some of your points.

Yeah, it's definitely not like a math equation where there is always a constant 'truth'. Honestly it just made for a good discussion.

[DenBronx]

Peyton reportedly not happy with the lack of deal for DT. Speaks volumes because we cant stand around finger poppin each other ********. I can't think of a Bronco as deserving as DT to get a new contract.



From NBC Sports Talk for Android:

Peyton reportedly not happy with lack of Demaryius deal
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/12/peyton-reportedly-not-happy-with-lack-of-demaryius-deal/

[Northman]

First, Peyton typically isn’t happy unless he’s upset, about something. Second, as the Broncos work in a new offense under new coach Gary Kubiak, the sooner Thomas gets up to speed, the better the offense will perform.

Makes sense that he's not happy, with a new offense in place its important for DT to be there but he's going to do what is best for DT so Manning should just worry about who is in camp and let the other things work themselves out for the time being.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, Manning should probably just worry about himself at this point. It's not the end of the world if a WR he's played with for 3 years misses minicamp. It won't take them long to get back on the same page. Kinda seems like a violation of the locker room code to call out a guy on his contract negotiations.

[Slick]

I would say you both are right with some of your points.

I can't argue his points there at all. Sometimes I get disillusioned with human beings in general but I am capable of empathy in those types of cases.

[tomjonesrocks]

Makes sense that he's not happy, with a new offense in place its important for DT to be there but he's going to do what is best for DT so Manning should just worry about who is in camp and let the other things work themselves out for the time being.

I'd say fine but he took a paycut and Denver has basically been stingy ****s this offseason.

[MOtorboat]

The draft, develop and sign process has pretty much been a failure at this point.

[Ziggy]

The draft, develop and sign process has pretty much been a failure at this point.

I think that has as much to do with Fox and the last coaching staff as anything. I think that there's a whole lot more young talent on this team than people realize. It just hasn't been developed or utilized yet.

[MOtorboat]

I think that has as much to do with Fox and the last coaching staff as anything. I think that there's a whole lot more young talent on this team than people realize. It just hasn't been developed or utilized yet.

How can you blame Fox for Denver not signing young players to second contracts? Harris and Green are really the only two who have been signed under Elway. Clady under McDaniels. Personally, I'd just like to see them sign some more of their young players. I don't hate free agent signings, but I think the team might be better off with a few more signed young players, i.e., Thomas, Franklin, Decker, than having Talib or Ware. It's just a personal feeling on team-building philosophy and Elway talked about it repeatedly in his first two years, but he just hasn't really come through on it. At the end of the day, though, Denver has won under Elway up to this point so you can't fault him too much, I'm just wondering if it can continue.

[Poet]

How can you blame Fox for Denver not signing young players to second contracts? Harris and Green are really the only two who have been signed under Elway. Clady under McDaniels. Personally, I'd just like to see them sign some more of their young players. I don't hate free agent signings, but I think the team might be better off with a few more signed young players, i.e., Thomas, Franklin, Decker, than having Talib or Ware. It's just a personal feeling on team-building philosophy and Elway talked about it repeatedly in his first two years, but he just hasn't really come through on it. At the end of the day, though, Denver has won under Elway up to this point so you can't fault him too much, I'm just wondering if it can continue.

I'm going to guess that the philosophy is different when you have an aging star player like Peyton Manning. It is possible that Elway believes that signing his own guys is the key, but is going against it because of the SB window.

[Northman]

I'd say fine but he took a paycut and Denver has basically been stingy ****s this offseason.

You mean Denver has had to watch their money this offseason and not overpay players? Yea, i would say you are right. I think people have a serious memory lapse when it comes to how much Denver can simply shovel out here and whether those players are worth breaking the bank for. The reality is Denver has a certain amount they are willing to give a player but if the player is being unreasonable than they simply cut their losses. I mean, if you are looking to blame someone maybe point the finger at Manning who signed that 100 million dollar contract to begin with.

[MOtorboat]

I'm going to guess that the philosophy is different when you have an aging star player like Peyton Manning. It is possible that Elway believes that signing his own guys is the key, but is going against it because of the SB window.

Yes.

[Poet]

Yes.

Good talk.

[Ziggy]

I'm going to guess that the philosophy is different when you have an aging star player like Peyton Manning. It is possible that Elway believes that signing his own guys is the key, but is going against it because of the SB window.

That's a possibility, but Elway has made some great moves. Decker at 7+ million/year or Sanders at 5 million/year? Decker wanted more than what he was worth. Period. Like the Ravens and Pats, Elway will keep the guys that he can for the value that they are worth. He won't overpay. Orlando Franklin got 7 million/year. That's too much. JT wanted 9 million/year. Too much. Chris Harris was re-signed. DT will be re-signed if he doesn't want to break the bank. Great GM's keep the talent that will sign for fair market value and they let the rest go. Ozzie has always done it. He's the best in the business and the reason why the Ravens are consistently in the playoffs.

As far as developing young talent, that's where I think Fox and his staff failed. They continually favored veterans and gave very little opportunities to the younger guys. CJ Anderson is the perfect example. He has great talent but if it weren't for injuries he would have never gotten a chance. How many other young guys were sitting on the bench with talent because a crappy coaching staff refused to give them a chance? I think we'll find out over the next couple of years.

[Poet]

That's a possibility, but Elway has made some great moves. Decker at 7+ million/year or Sanders at 5 million/year? Decker wanted more than what he was worth. Period. Like the Ravens and Pats, Elway will keep the guys that he can for the value that they are worth. He won't overpay. Orlando Franklin got 7 million/year. That's too much. JT wanted 9 million/year. Too much. Chris Harris was re-signed. DT will be re-signed if he doesn't want to break the bank. Great GM's keep the talent that will sign for fair market value and they let the rest go. Ozzie has always done it. He's the best in the business and the reason why the Ravens are consistently in the playoffs.

As far as developing young talent, that's where I think Fox and his staff failed. They continually favored veterans and gave very little opportunities to the younger guys. CJ Anderson is the perfect example. He has great talent but if it weren't for injuries he would have never gotten a chance. How many other young guys were sitting on the bench with talent because a crappy coaching staff refused to give them a chance? I think we'll find out over the next couple of years.

There is some of that, but by that same token you've had good talent walk out, and Decker had a nice season with a bad QB and a bad offense. Decker would have put up big numbers as well, and was a guy you drafted. It's a little too easy to say that he's doing what the Ravens are Patriots are doing - the patriots are typically not big movers and shakers in free agency with a few exceptions. The Ravens will always kick the tires, they're not inactive either, but they often do their biggest work via trades and resigns.



I said when you guys signed Fox as your head coach that he's overrated. He is not dynamic, he always plays the veterans, he is not an aggressive coach, he can make some very curious challenges at times, etc. I think all of those things panned out to be true. However, to use your Chris Harris example - Harris was on the bench and got his shot when Tracy Porter was hurt, correct? Who signed Porter? Was Porter not having a very nice season up to that point? I thought he was, but maybe his play trailed off after that Pittsburgh game. Was signing him at an affordable contract bad? I don't think so. You can slice it a couple ways.

The truth of the matter is that the Broncos have been, up until this season, building through free agency. It's because of the limited window. It's why Julius Thomas isn't on the team, and his contract in Jax wasn't out of whack. Decker's contract wasn't out of whack. You have x amount of dollars you can spend. It's the business with a cap for a reason. I think he's done a very fine job myself.