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Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2009, 08:37 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13288566

Go ahead, call Kyle Orton a game manager. He relishes, even loves, the somewhat dubious title.

Tell him he doesn't have a strong arm. He'll laugh it off, and tell you he can make any throw that's needed.

Boo him when he throws an interception in a training camp scrimmage. Orton won't flinch, because he's heard worse — much worse — in Chicago, where he went from starter to third-string clipboard holder, and back again.

No matter how bad things may be, or how good they might get in this, Orton's first season as the Broncos quarterback, it's a safe bet the screams that came out of Orton's mouth on Aug. 30, as he waved a bloody, dislocated index finger, will be the only ones heard from him this season

Flash back and contrast that to the recent ghost of Broncos quarterbacks past. The high profile change at the team's most visible position is emblematic of transition throughout the Broncos organization.

The last time Jay Cutler wore a Broncos jersey — Dec. 28, 2008 — NBC cameras caught him screaming profanities at rookie receiver Eddie Royal in the Broncos' 52-21 season-ending loss at San Diego.

"I'm not a yeller, I'm not a screamer. I always try to use positive reinforcement when I can," Orton said. "I try to be a leader by example, make sure I'm doing all my things right, putting in all the work I need to do my job, because until you do that, it's hard to get people to follow you."

Orton is plenty of things that Cutler wasn't, yet because of the epic meltdown that occurred last March between Cutler and new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, Orton finds his career tied directly to Cutler.

Who will throw for more yards? More touchdowns? More interceptions? Who will win more games? Who takes his team to the playoffs first?

The answers to those questions ultimately will determine whether McDaniels was right in trading Cutler to the Bears.

Those questions and comparisons are all understandable for Cutler, because he was the one who asked to be traded in the first place; and for McDaniels, the rookie head coach who shook up the NFL by trading a young Pro Bowl quarterback.

Orton has tried to distance himself from the Cutler fallout as much as possible. While April 2 officially marked the end of the Cutler Era in Denver, it marked a new beginning for Orton, who admits he became disgruntled at times in Chicago.

"It's great to finally have the support of the organization," Orton said. "I feel like they want me here and that feels great."

McDaniels could have named Orton the team's starter as soon as Orton got off the plane at Denver International Airport on April 3. Instead, McDaniels said there would be open competition between Orton and Chris Simms, signed earlier in the offseason to be Cutler's backup. By mid-June, McDaniels had named Orton his starter.

For the first time in his career, Orton was heading to training camp knowing his role, with the confidence of his coach and the chance to win over his teammates.

Adversity nothing new

Orton and his wife of a year and a half, Bridgett, bought a house in Cherry Creek and spent their summer here. Orton spent most of his days at Dove Valley or on the golf course playing against current and former teammates such as Brandon Stokley and Brian Griese, the former Broncos quarterback who has made his permanent home here.

With the summer waning, Orton packed up his camping gear and headed to Rocky Mountain National Park. He hiked about 7 miles to set up camp at Pear Lake, and spent a couple days enjoying the quiet and clearing his head while fishing and hiking.

Things have hardly been serene since training camp started. First, he was booed, loudly, by Broncos fans when he threw two interceptions in a scrimmage at Invesco Field at Mile High less than a week into training camp. Eight days later he threw interceptions on three consecutive drives in the preseason opener at San Francisco.

"After San Francisco, I never saw him get down. He always had that confidence in himself and the offense," Stokley said.

Orton played well against Seattle — save for a head-scratching left-handed interception in the end zone, then sputtered early in the preseason showcase game against the Bears and Cutler. With just more than five minutes remaining in the first half, Orton slammed his right hand into the hand of a Chicago defender, and a joint on his index finger was dislocated so violently it broke the skin.

Whether his finger will recover in time for the season opener Sunday remains to be seen.

"I'm not worried about struggles in the preseason," Orton said. "I came into the preseason knowing there would be struggles."

Injuries and adversity are nothing new for Orton, who sprained an ankle midway through last season and was ineffective down the stretch as the Bears limped home 9-7, missing the playoffs.

When it became clear Cutler was available via trade, the Bears shipped Orton to Denver along with two first-round draft picks and one third-rounder.

Though Orton won 21 games as a starter in Chicago, his up-and-down tenure made his stay disappointing. Nationally, he became more well-known for growing a thick beard, or for pictures that showed up on the Internet of him partying, than for his play.

So, a few preseason interceptions? A bloody finger? That's nothing, Orton said.

"I learned early on in my career that you can't take anything for granted in this league," said Orton, a fourth-round draft pick out of Purdue in 2005. "I had gone from my true freshman year in college starting all four years to starting my first year in the league, and I thought, this was easy, this is how it's going to be for 15 years. You go from that to not even having the chance to compete for the job. It was a frustrating couple of years.

"It took me a while to get back to work and to really appreciate the game. I was disgruntled. I was very upset about it. But I worked my way back, I got the job again and tried to make the most of it."

Orton a "game-winner"

Orton knows that throughout his career in Chicago he earned the reputation of being a "game manager" — a guy who won't make many mistakes, but isn't going to make game-changing plays, either.

"He's a real solid quarterback," Chicago linebacker Brian Urlacher said. "He does what he needs to do to win the game. You look at his career record as a starter — he wins games. It doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you win."

Orton said he has no problem with the "manager" label, although McDaniels is quick to dismiss it.

McDaniels watched plenty of film from Orton's time in Chicago, and said he saw a cerebral quarterback whose skills translate well into his spread-style offense.

"The quarterbacks that I've had the privilege to coach have never been game managers, they've been game-winners. That's what we expect Kyle to be," McDaniels said. "I mean, people tag people as 'game manager' because, what, they complete a high percentage of passes? I don't even know how to define that. He does what we ask him to do, based on who we're playing each week, and that's what I want from our quarterbacks."

The other perception that has followed Orton to Denver is that he doesn't have the strength to throw deep. While no one is going to confuse Orton with Cutler when it comes to sheer power, Orton, McDaniels and several Broncos receivers insist there is not a throw that Orton isn't strong enough to make.

"Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," Orton said.

Still, the fact that Orton's longest completion of the preseason was 26 yards hasn't helped diminish the perception.

Orton's high school coach from Southeast Polk High in Runnels, Iowa, knows the deep-ball threat is there, and always has been. Kent Horstmann recalled taking Orton to a quarterback camp at Purdue in 2000, the summer before Orton's senior year of high school.

At age 17, Orton won the long-ball competition with a heave of 78 yards, beating all other high school boys — and one NFL quarterback, Jon Kitna, then with the Seahawks, who happened to be visiting camp.

"He could really throw the football," Horstmann said. "Certainly he had the best arm I've ever seen at this level."

Big arm or not, Orton doesn't lack for confidence heading into a season in which a rookie coach put himself on the hot seat for putting a new quarterback in control.

"I'm going to play great and we're going to win a lot of football games," Orton said.

Then and now

Jay Cutler: He is the stereotypical franchise quarterback: big arm, lots of swagger and the production to back it up. He threw for 4,526 yards, 25 touchdowns and 18 interceptions last season for the Broncos, but had a falling out with new coach Josh McDaniels before the first offseason workout.

Kyle Orton: He was traded after four years with Chicago in which he had a record of 21-12 as a starter. McDaniels praises Orton's command of the offense and knowledge of the new system. Orton is confident in his arm strength but he certainly won't be comparing himself to John Elway.

T.K.O.
09-17-2009, 08:52 PM
"Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," Orton said.


i love it ! nice little dig:D

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 09:32 PM
Talk is cheap, let's see some results.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2009, 09:35 PM
Talk is cheap, let's see some results.

And those would be??????

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 09:36 PM
And those would be??????

Touchdowns would be a nice start. I have only seen one of those out of him so far and that was preseason.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2009, 09:39 PM
Touchdowns would be a nice start. I have only seen one of those out of him so far and that was preseason.

And so would no more drive killing penalties be nice.

MOtorboat
09-17-2009, 09:40 PM
Touchdowns would be a nice start. I have only seen one of those out of him so far and that was preseason.

That's funny, because we had an 87-yard touchdown pass to win the game last week. You should pay better attention.

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 09:40 PM
And so would no more drive killing penalties be nice.

Sorry, but if you go through a whole game without scoring a single TD on offense (Minus a miracle) there is more wrong than just penalties.


That's funny, because we had an 87-yard touchdown pass to win the game last week. You should pay better attention.

Stokley had a 87 yard TD, Orton didn't.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2009, 09:42 PM
Sorry, but if you go through a whole game without scoring a single TD on offense (Minus a miracle) there is more wrong than just penalties.



Stokley had a 87 yard TD, Orton didn't.

Not really - tell me how many times a nice gain was called back because of a penalty. You need to consider the whole picture, just not one phase of it.

MOtorboat
09-17-2009, 09:44 PM
Stokley had a 87 yard TD, Orton didn't.

Wrong.

The Broncos had an 87-yard TD, and Orton threw it. Stokley caught it.

Shit happens.

I'm sorry this doesn't fit into your little "Orton sucks" box.

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 09:44 PM
Not really - tell me how many times a nice gain was called back because of a penalty. You need to consider the whole picture, just not one phase of it.

Strange I swear I was doing that when I said that if your team doesn't score a TD the whole game that there was more problems with it than just penalties. Isn't that taking the whole picture by saying the offense was absolutely terrible in just about every phase of the game from RB to QB to WR?

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2009, 09:48 PM
Strange I swear I was doing that when I said that if your team doesn't score a TD the whole game that there was more problems with it than just penalties. Isn't that taking the whole picture by saying the offense was absolutely terrible in just about every phase of the game from RB to QB to WR?

Totally agree with you there. However, the article is about Orton, and your first post was "talk is cheap - let's see some results". Now, you have expanded your comments, so that is good.

honz
09-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Orton 1-0
Cutler 0-1

/thread

//bitching

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 09:53 PM
Wrong.

The Broncos had an 87-yard TD, and Orton threw it. Stokley caught it.

Shit happens.

I'm sorry this doesn't fit into your little "Orton sucks" box.

I am just laughing that people are even trying to defend Orton with this. :lol:

It is basically the same as if I fumbled a football into the endzone and my team mate recovered which I have done before. I would still have been chewn out by my coach because I still did something that usually results in disaster. Likewise the pass Orton threw had disaster written all over it and by some miracle Stokey caught it and ran down the side lines.

As I said before, Stokey had a TD, Orton didn't. He just gets the credit by default.


Orton 1-0
Cutler 0-1

/thread

//bitching

If you think I hate Orton because of Cutler you are dead wrong. I hate him right now because he is playing like crap. If he plays better he will get praise from me, if he plays like crap he will get crap from me. Simple as that.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2009, 10:08 PM
I am just laughing that people are even trying to defend Orton with this. :lol:

It is basically the same as if I fumbled a football into the endzone and my team mate recovered which I have done before. I would still have been chewn out by my coach because I still did something that usually results in disaster. Likewise the pass Orton threw had disaster written all over it and by some miracle Stokey caught it and ran down the side lines.

As I said before, Stokey had a TD, Orton didn't. He just gets the credit by default.



If you think I hate Orton because of Cutler you are dead wrong. I hate him right now because he is playing like crap. If he plays better he will get praise from me, if he plays like crap he will get crap from me. Simple as that.

At least it is better than throwing 4 INTS - and I doubt that Orton has time to read the posts on here.

Shutdown
09-17-2009, 10:11 PM
I am just laughing that people are even trying to defend Orton with this. :lol:

It is basically the same as if I fumbled a football into the endzone and my team mate recovered which I have done before. I would still have been chewn out by my coach because I still did something that usually results in disaster. Likewise the pass Orton threw had disaster written all over it and by some miracle Stokey caught it and ran down the side lines.

As I said before, Stokey had a TD, Orton didn't. He just gets the credit by default.



If you think I hate Orton because of Cutler you are dead wrong. I hate him right now because he is playing like crap. If he plays better he will get praise from me, if he plays like crap he will get crap from me. Simple as that.

What makes you think he is playing, or played like shit? The guy is on a new team, with a new system, in his first game.

Cut him some slack. If anyone played like shit Sunday it was Cutler.

And just in case you missed it... Denver 1-0

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 10:15 PM
At least it is better than throwing 4 INTS - and I doubt that Orton has time to read the posts on here.

The purpose of this board is to discuss Broncos football no? Am I not giving my two cents on Orton? You guys are more than welcome to disagree with it.

So far we haven't seen any worth while results so I would like to see the offense do a little more next game. I am not asking for a blow out win, but at least a respectable performance would be nice.

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 10:16 PM
What makes you think he is playing, or played like shit? The guy is on a new team, with a new system, in his first game.

Cut him some slack. If anyone played like shit Sunday it was Cutler.

And just in case you missed it... Denver 1-0

Oh just the fact he threw behind the receiver all day long, under threw the deep ball, threw an absolute duck on the play the Stokely scored on, and the fact we scored a grand total of 6 points through 59 minutes.

Just in case you missed it if we play like that again we are going to be 1-15 in a hurry without our #1 pick to make a losing season tolerable. Even though I don't believe we are going to make the playoffs, I would like to see us send the lowest possible pick to Seattle.

And again I find it funny how the Cutler haters keep dragging Cutler into a thread.

MOtorboat
09-17-2009, 11:01 PM
I would rather have had four interceptions.

Damn that luck!

MOtorboat
09-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Oh just the fact he threw behind the receiver all day long, under threw the deep ball, threw an absolute duck on the play the Stokely scored on, and the fact we scored a grand total of 6 points through 59 minutes.

Since we all played excuses with Cutler, there are none for Orton...no...I get it...you know, like an injured hand...:noidea:

LOL.

Hey guys, it was the defense's fault we won.

honz
09-17-2009, 11:04 PM
If only Jay Cutler had Denver's defense he wouldn't have to take so many risks.

MOtorboat
09-17-2009, 11:06 PM
If only Jay Cutler had Denver's defense he wouldn't have to take so many risks.

That's a really good point, honz.

I mean, if Chicago had kept Green Bay to 7 points, the four interceptions wouldn't have meant shit...

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Since we all played excuses with Cutler, there are none for Orton...no...I get it...you know, like an injured hand...:noidea:

LOL.

Hey guys, it was the defense's fault we won.

Hey if you want to obsess about Culter go ahead. I mean it seems like you can't defend Orton without dragging Cutler in. Cutler is in Chicago and right now I hope he loses because our draft pick next year is riding on it.

The difference between Orton and Culter is Cutler produced while he was here even with the boneheaded mistakes. Thus far Orton has yet to produce anything. So until I see the production then I am not going to have excuses for him.

You got to build up some credit before you take a loan out. I defended Plummer till his play started to decline because he had a really good season the year before.

MOtorboat
09-17-2009, 11:10 PM
Hey if you want to obsess about Culter go ahead.

The difference between Orton and Culter is Cutler produced while he was here even with the boneheaded mistakes. Thus far Orton has yet to produce anything. So until I see the production then I am not going to have excuses for him.

He produced a win. I guess you forgot about that. :noidea:

Orton sucks! Cutler rules!

P.S. Cutler produced all the way to three straight seasons of no playoffs. Quarterback fail.

LoyalSoldier
09-17-2009, 11:18 PM
He produced a win. I guess you forgot about that. :noidea:

Orton sucks! Cutler rules!

P.S. Cutler produced all the way to three straight seasons of no playoffs. Quarterback fail.

Lol you are just sad. Keep riding the Cutler train it isn't getting you anywhere.

And no Orton didn't produce a win. He produced a loss that Stokely turned into a win. Unlike you I give credit where credit is deserved.

Chica_Ang
09-17-2009, 11:37 PM
-----I hearby ban any further mention of Mr. Cutler in these threads:

He is not a part of the Denver Broncos anymore.

Orton hasn't even played a full season in this system.

And frankly, the discussion bores me to tears. Hense the vodka. Thank you.

I know, I know, "just stay away from these threads" then, ang. :salute:

Dman444
09-18-2009, 12:27 AM
I am just laughing that people are even trying to defend Orton with this. :lol:

It is basically the same as if I fumbled a football into the endzone and my team mate recovered which I have done before. I would still have been chewn out by my coach because I still did something that usually results in disaster. Likewise the pass Orton threw had disaster written all over it and by some miracle Stokey caught it and ran down the side lines.

As I said before, Stokey had a TD, Orton didn't. He just gets the credit by default.



If you think I hate Orton because of Cutler you are dead wrong. I hate him right now because he is playing like crap. If he plays better he will get praise from me, if he plays like crap he will get crap from me. Simple as that.

I actually lol when I read that word. It sounds like an insult.

You chewn!

Dman444
09-18-2009, 12:33 AM
I am supporting Orton right now, but he did throw some questionable balls last Sunday.

Had he thrown a good ball to Scheff that would have been a touchdown for sure, unfortunately he had to turn and make a falling catch. There were a couple other throws that he missed, but overall I think he did alright.

It's going to take him some time to learn the system and get acclimated and let's just hope that it happens sooner rather than later because if our O keeps playing like this we're screwed.

shank
09-18-2009, 12:44 AM
Since we all played excuses with Cutler, there are none for Orton...no...I get it...you know, like an injured hand...:noidea:

LOL.

Hey guys, it was the defense's fault we won.

that's a compelling thought MO. and pretty bass-ackwards now that i think about it.

jay had all the talent in the world, so when he did stupid things, i gave him free passes, making excuses for bad reads, dumb throws...

kyle has a lot less talent-wise to work with than jay, so how does it make sense that he gets a shorter leash?

i realize he has less potential than jay, but it doesn't mean he can't become a very effective quarterback with more time in the system.

frenchfan
09-18-2009, 02:10 AM
that's a compelling thought MO. and pretty bass-ackwards now that i think about it.

jay had all the talent in the world, so when he did stupid things, i gave him free passes, making excuses for bad reads, dumb throws...

kyle has a lot less talent-wise to work with than jay, so how does it make sense that he gets a shorter leash?

i realize he has less potential than jay, but it doesn't mean he can't become a very effective quarterback with more time in the system.Amen...

It's true (and obvious) you can't compare Jay's skills to Orton's ones...

But I like Kyle's mentally... He is a tough QB that will give everything he has for his team and teamates. He accepts his own mistakes and can handle criticism (what a good way to improve from your mistakes BTW)... I think he can be good under pressure... There, he's way above the current Jay Cutler...

I don't care about his so called lack of arm strenght... What I expect from a QB is :
- leadership
- decision making (and how to read a D and a play)
- accuracy
- ability to play under pressure...

I think Orton has 2 points to work on (decision and accuracy) but I think he can succeed in this system. And I will give him a fair chance to show us.

He will never be John Elway and he knows that... Anyway, we don't want him to be #7, but to do all he can do to give us back a Lombardi... Sure, the 1st game wasn't great (give some credit to Bengals D too) but that was just the 1st game... I don't think we killed Jay after his 1st game... :confused:

Elevation inc
09-18-2009, 02:37 AM
He produced a win. I guess you forgot about that. :noidea:

Orton sucks! Cutler rules!

P.S. Cutler produced all the way to three straight seasons of no playoffs. Quarterback fail.

dude seriously you must have a man crush on cutler...the dude aint said crap about cutler, you are in fact dragging him constrantly into convo regarding orton.

orton has played ineffectively since he has been here, people tend to not praise and make excuses for someone when they play like crap consecutively over a 4-5 week period

if you battled with someone that made excuses for cutler at one time then fine, i am certainly not one of them and i agree kyle has played like crap since he got here, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CUTLER!!!!!!!! it has to do with orton playing like crap.

Im stoked we won, and i glad orton didnt turn the ball over like your lover boy jay did. but the end result is the guy that was suppose to thrive here and be our savior at QB according to the FO has played ineffectively for the last 4-5 weeks, that is a good reason for many people to be irritated.

if he was as good as you all state and those excuses you are coming up with werent a big deal, neither kyle nor MCd would have had problems with his play...yet there his coach was ripping his ass on numerous occasions the last few weeks for poor decision making, stupid turnovers, bad throws, and inexcusable sacks....and heck even kyle knows he hasnt played great.

cutler played like crap many games here, but he produced many times as well...i was quite upset with many things cutler did and quite frankly im indifferent to him being gone, but our new Qb has been inadequate so i have a issue with that as many guys do.

you are not god on the subject, and the fact someone doesnt like orton becasue of his recent play is not so hard to understand.

Please leave cutler out of your arguements as you seem to be the one that likes to drag him in the most to debates about kyle.

kyle hasnt played well.....doesnt matter what cutler did....lets not make excuses for either Qb and realize both played like crap last sunday and in the pre-season....

powderaddict
09-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Touchdowns would be a nice start. I have only seen one of those out of him so far and that was preseason.

Soooo...

Production > Wins?

Slick
09-18-2009, 12:00 PM
You guys are taking what Loyal says/has said and taking it way out of context. He never said a 300 yard 3 touchdown performance is better than a win. He never said 4 ints is better than a win. He just wants to see Orton play better.

I gave Loyal a little crap in the gameday thread for calling out Orton seconds after we won the damn game, but to make statements like the above is asinine.

Zweems56
09-18-2009, 12:17 PM
That's funny, because we had an 87-yard touchdown pass to win the game last week. You should pay better attention.

That didn't happen.

claymore
09-18-2009, 12:23 PM
http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/unicorn-rainbow.jpg

T.K.O.
09-18-2009, 01:20 PM
Lol you are just sad. Keep riding the Cutler train it isn't getting you anywhere.

And no Orton didn't produce a win. He produced a loss that Stokely turned into a win. Unlike you I give credit where credit is deserved.

he had us in scoring range for what would have been the game winning fg and he didnt get 20 yds of penalties then he threw what would have been a 1st dn if not for an amazing tip which then became a touchdown to win......he had a passer rating over 100 and didnt turn the ball over once.....how is it that he had no part in the win again?
i'm not saying he played awesome,but for a season opening early road game
back east and playing with stitches and a glove on his throwing hand.....i think he deserves a little slack.
you sound like he deserved to have the last throw go for a pick6 or something .
i'll take lucky wins anyday,over "gee we have the 2nd best offense in the league,why cant we beat the bills at home for a playoff spot?:confused:

LoyalSoldier
09-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Soooo...

Production > Wins?

No

Good Production of QB + Good production of RB + Good Production of Defense = wins.

You don't get wins without production and the more parts of the team that produces the more likely you are to win. Thus I would like to see Orton and our running backs produce more so that the winning formula isn't

Production of defense >> Production offense.

I would prefer the winning forumula to be

Production of offense + production of defense


People love to say that they would rather have an ugly win than a prety loss, but in reality anytime you lose it is because you didn't produce enough at the right time and if you win it is because you produced at the right time. Last weeks game our defense produced and our offense only produced on that last play.

Production is the means to get a win and without it your odds of winning are terribly low. The complete lack of production is a blow out.

claymore
09-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Since we all played excuses with Cutler, there are none for Orton...no...I get it...you know, like an injured hand...:noidea:

LOL.

Hey guys, it was the defense's fault we won.

I dont remember any excuses for Cutler. I remember our Defense being so terrible that Cutler didnt deserve any of the blame.

Cutler was 14-1 when we allowed 21 points or less right?