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ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 08:10 AM
So i saw this posted on OM. Had to post here, was hilarious.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QV05mGQSVc
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/highlight/espn-ran-a-bizarre-segment-on-shane-ray?utm_source=vicesportsfb

Missouri defensive end Shane Ray was selected by the Broncos with the 23rd overall pick, much lower than he likely would have been selected had he not been pulled over three days prior for speeding and a search of his car revealed he had a small amount of marijuana in a compartment. He was cited for possession of under 35 grams of marijuana, driving in the right lane, and given a warning for the speeding. That's it. He was cooperative, he was not stoned, and he was not detained. Never let that stop the NFL media from putting on their concerned pants and saying a rosary for better decision making in the future.

Which brings us to this weird clip. Trey Wingo introduces this segment featuring Cris Carter as if Ray got a reprieve from death row and is lucky to be free, let alone a Denver Bronco, noting his terrible neighborhood and lack of father, while also dealing with "this"—which, again, is a marijuana citation for less than 35 grams and doesn't even exist in his new place of employment. Cris Carter says some nice things and offers valuable advice—a good rule of thumb in life is to never do anything to disappoint your mother—but do we need to further make an example of this kid to feel better about ourselves? The narrative we see all too often with creepy things where grown men talk about hand sizes for eight hours—that "he cost himself millions of dollars with poor judgment..but he's shown great accountability since"—is, at best, paternalistic grandstanding and, at worst, completely dehumanizing. Shane Ray had a little bit of weed in his car! That's it!

Chris carter has lost his damn mind.
Shane must have felt really awkward :lol:

Az Snake
05-04-2015, 08:30 AM
Chris Carter has done more to mentor and advise young players than you will ever know.
Carter is emotional, passionate and adamant in trying to give them a chance to avoid mistakes that Carter had to overcome.
You are crazy if you think Chris has lost his mind.
The NFL and all Pro sports need more guys like Chris Carter.

Poor Ray felt awkward ? He should be embarrassed !
He spiraled down in the draft and the Broncos gave him a chance.
You better believe that Ray is going to hear more of the same from the Bronco locker room leaders.

Anyone that thinks that was hilarious must have a twisted view on life.

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 08:37 AM
lol give me a break. Poor shane will never forgive himself! He has wronged the world! I just hope he can play football one day!

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 08:38 AM
Chris Carter has done more to mentor and advise young players than you will ever know.
Carter is emotional, passionate and adamant in trying to give them a chance to avoid mistakes that Carter had to overcome.
You are crazy if you think Chris has lost his mind.
The NFL and all Pro sports need more guys like Chris Carter.

Poor Ray felt awkward ? He should be embarrassed !
He spiraled down in the draft and the Broncos gave him a chance.
You better believe that Ray is going to hear more of the same from the Bronco locker room leaders.

Anyone that thinks that was hilarious must have a twisted view on life.

he was grandstanding, and has lost his damn mind if he thinks that was the right thing to do.

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 08:42 AM
For me Carter's message lost all effect because of how excitable he was.

It was the type of interaction Ray will be joking about with his buddies IMO

Just because Carter means well - does not mean he will be effective. In fact if those kind of messages are not delivered in a way that the person receiving then can relate to - they may well have the opposite effect

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 08:46 AM
the dude literally broke down crying like Ray had just turned into Aaron Hernandez.

Its absurd.

Az Snake
05-04-2015, 08:55 AM
he was grandstanding, and has lost his damn mind if he thinks that was the right thing to do.

Maybe marijuana is legal in Colorado but it's not legal in the NFL.
Ask Von Miller, suspended 6 games in 2013.
Von tested positive in his rookie season, then struck out again with the NFL and hurt his team.

The kid needs to get his priorities straightened out or he will ruin his career.
Ray needs some verbal beat downs and he'll get more for sure.
HOFer Chris Carter doesn't need to grandstand and probably didn't have a choice when ESPN aired that.

Shane Ray better not let down the Denver Broncos.

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 08:59 AM
Maybe marijuana is legal in Colorado but it's not legal in the NFL.
Ask Von Miller, suspended 6 games in 2013.
Von tested positive in his rookie season, then struck out again with the NFL and hurt his team.

The kid needs to get his priorities straightened out or he will ruin his career.
Ray needs some verbal beat downs and he'll get more for sure.
HOFer Chris Carter doesn't need to grandstand and probably didn't have a choice when ESPN aired that.

Shane Ray better not let down the Denver Broncos.

I absolutely agree with all of this, but I just think Carter likely achieved nothing with that approach.

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 09:00 AM
Not the type of conversation that needs to go on in front of the camera.

underrated29
05-04-2015, 10:01 AM
That was weird.


So carter pulls Shane aside for a few moments during the draft and then starts crying. Crying so hard he gets upset, forgets what he was doing, and walks out?.....leaving Shane there like wtf do I do now?....

Weird

Timmy!
05-04-2015, 11:55 AM
Somebody might want to drug test Carter......

Tned
05-04-2015, 12:04 PM
Shane, If you quote material from another site, post a link. It's both the correct thing to do and a forum rule. Please fix/edit your post.

As to the clip. I think some of you guys seem to miss the point, which probably isn't lost on Ray. That is that Ray's mother sacrificed a TREMENDOUS amount to try and get Ray out of the horrible circumstances he/they were in. He was getting into trouble, on a fast track to jail, like his father, when she started working an extra job to pay the tuition at a Catholic school, which is where he started playing football.

He has an opportunity to do something great, and that will let him take care of his mother, rewarding her for the sacrifices she made for him, and instead he's risking ******* it all up. Failing a drug test in college, getting pulled over the week of the draft with MJ in the car. What he did the week of the draft was about as idiotic as it gets. He's risking it all, and that's the message that Carter was trying to tell him.

Based on how remorseful Ray is claiming to be, if he's not just spewing BS for the cameras, then he probably fully understands and appreciates what Carter was saying.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 12:12 PM
Shane, If you quote material from another site, post a link. It's both the correct thing to do and a forum rule. Please fix/edit your post.

As to the clip. I think some of you guys seem to miss the point, which probably isn't lost on Ray. That is that Ray's mother sacrificed a TREMENDOUS amount to try and get Ray out of the horrible circumstances he/they were in. He was getting into trouble, on a fast track to jail, like his father, when she started working an extra job to pay the tuition at a Catholic school, which is where he started playing football.

He has an opportunity to do something great, and that will let him take care of his mother, rewarding her for the sacrifices she made for him, and instead he's risking ******* it all up. Failing a drug test in college, getting pulled over the week of the draft with MJ in the car. What he did the week of the draft was about as idiotic as it gets. He's risking it all, and that's the message that Carter was trying to tell him.

Based on how remorseful Ray is claiming to be, if he's not just spewing BS for the cameras, then he probably fully understands and appreciates what Carter was saying.

well said, well said...

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 12:17 PM
It was pretty obvious Ray didn't find it to be "stupid".

It may have not been something that should have been said in front of a camera, but I ask you, what other man has got in his face and said that with full conviction and experience? I for one have mentored a number of young men who have had struggled with addictions and legal issues. When I speak to them I do so from my personal failures and victories. I can assure you, there is passion involved.

Cris is right, he should be ashamed for risking everything his mother sacrificed. You're correct, it was all over a little weed, which leads to the statement, "you're a damn fool if you jeopardize all of that for a little weed.".

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 12:21 PM
It was pretty obvious Ray didn't find it to be "stupid".

It may have not been something that should have been said in front of a camera, but I ask you, what other man has got in his face and said that with full conviction and experience? I for one have mentored a number of young men who have had struggled with addictions and legal issues. When I speak to them I do so from my personal failures and victories. I can assure you, there is passion involved.

Cris is right, he should be ashamed for risking everything his mother sacrificed. You're correct, it was all over a little weed, which leads to the statement, "you're a damn fool if you jeopardize all of that for a little weed.".

He's probably heard it from several people, who thought it was none of our business to watch a private, personal conversation happen.

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 12:23 PM
Shane, If you quote material from another site, post a link. It's both the correct thing to do and a forum rule. Please fix/edit your post.

As to the clip. I think some of you guys seem to miss the point, which probably isn't lost on Ray. That is that Ray's mother sacrificed a TREMENDOUS amount to try and get Ray out of the horrible circumstances he/they were in. He was getting into trouble, on a fast track to jail, like his father, when she started working an extra job to pay the tuition at a Catholic school, which is where he started playing football.

He has an opportunity to do something great, and that will let him take care of his mother, rewarding her for the sacrifices she made for him, and instead he's risking ******* it all up. Failing a drug test in college, getting pulled over the week of the draft with MJ in the car. What he did the week of the draft was about as idiotic as it gets. He's risking it all, and that's the message that Carter was trying to tell him.

Based on how remorseful Ray is claiming to be, if he's not just spewing BS for the cameras, then he probably fully understands and appreciates what Carter was saying.

How else do you get your weed from one place to another? Mail it?

underrated29
05-04-2015, 12:27 PM
Shane, If you quote material from another site, post a link. It's both the correct thing to do and a forum rule. Please fix/edit your post.

As to the clip. I think some of you guys seem to miss the point, which probably isn't lost on Ray. That is that Ray's mother sacrificed a TREMENDOUS amount to try and get Ray out of the horrible circumstances he/they were in. He was getting into trouble, on a fast track to jail, like his father, when she started working an extra job to pay the tuition at a Catholic school, which is where he started playing football.

He has an opportunity to do something great, and that will let him take care of his mother, rewarding her for the sacrifices she made for him, and instead he's risking ******* it all up. Failing a drug test in college, getting pulled over the week of the draft with MJ in the car. What he did the week of the draft was about as idiotic as it gets. He's risking it all, and that's the message that Carter was trying to tell him.

Based on how remorseful Ray is claiming to be, if he's not just spewing BS for the cameras, then he probably fully understands and appreciates what Carter was saying.



I cant speak for everybody but I do not think the point of the "talk" was lost on anyone, at least not myself. That said, how bizarre was that?

When Deon does his thing with troubled guys like Dez, etc....He never breaks down crying, if he does I suspect he does not just walk off randomly in the middle of his conversation.


Everyone by now knows the back story to Ray, they know that his mom came with him to dove valley. Nothing is missed upon the incredible lady and job she did. Nothing is missed upon the big mess up Shane made last week. What is missed is what the hell happened here in this video. Chris Carter is missed. Literally. He literally went missing. Carter still has some severe regret about whatever he has done in his past and I don't know but am guessing that his mom may be dead now. Either way, it was a very very weird segment or clip or whatever you call it. To the highest degree.

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 12:54 PM
I cant speak for everybody but I do not think the point of the "talk" was lost on anyone, at least not myself. That said, how bizarre was that?

When Deon does his thing with troubled guys like Dez, etc....He never breaks down crying, if he does I suspect he does not just walk off randomly in the middle of his conversation.


Everyone by now knows the back story to Ray, they know that his mom came with him to dove valley. Nothing is missed upon the incredible lady and job she did. Nothing is missed upon the big mess up Shane made last week. What is missed is what the hell happened here in this video. Chris Carter is missed. Literally. He literally went missing. Carter still has some severe regret about whatever he has done in his past and I don't know but am guessing that his mom may be dead now. Either way, it was a very very weird segment or clip or whatever you call it. To the highest degree.

exactly - the message is sound - the context is weird - the delivery is totally bananas.

I know from Carters response to the Peterson Child Abuse thing - he has strong feelings about family and doing right by them - but if you cant deliver that message in a coherent way, it should not be shared.

We are all obviously different people on this board - with different experiences, values and beliefs - and that is cool. But if someone spoke to me like that when i was his age, regardless of who it was i would be thinking "awkward" - people can call that the petulance of youth or whatever.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 01:04 PM
He's probably heard it from several people, who thought it was none of our business to watch a private, personal conversation happen.

You may be right.

Personally, I don't believe it was Carter's intention to become overcome with emotion like that. I think it just happened. Does that mean it wasn't awkward for Ray? No, it doesn't....but he'll survive the moment.

I'm also not assuming that he's had a male role model speak to him like that since it's happened. Young men need male role models. His mother sounds like a fine woman, but sometimes a young bull needs a mature bull to drive the point home. Nevertheless, yes, it would have been better behind closed doors, even if the outburst of emotion was unscripted.

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 01:18 PM
You may be right.

Personally, I don't believe it was Carter's intention to become overcome with emotion like that. I think it just happened. Does that mean it wasn't awkward for Ray? No, it doesn't....but he'll survive the moment.

I'm also not assuming that he's had a male role model speak to him like that since it's happened. Young men need male role models. His mother sounds like a fine woman, but sometimes a young bull needs a mature bull to drive the point home. Nevertheless, yes, it would have been better behind closed doors, even if the outburst of emotion was unscripted.

I would think Demarcus Ware would be a good influence. He will probably be spending a lot more time with Ware than Carter. The intention was probably well, but I don't know if it was really Carters place to say much. And why was it on camera? Was it only for show?

tomjonesrocks
05-04-2015, 01:24 PM
Shane, If you quote material from another site, post a link. It's both the correct thing to do and a forum rule. Please fix/edit your post. As to the clip. I think some of you guys seem to miss the point, which probably isn't lost on Ray. That is that Ray's mother sacrificed a TREMENDOUS amount to try and get Ray out of the horrible circumstances he/they were in. He was getting into trouble, on a fast track to jail, like his father, when she started working an extra job to pay the tuition at a Catholic school, which is where he started playing football. He has an opportunity to do something great, and that will let him take care of his mother, rewarding her for the sacrifices she made for him, and instead he's risking ******* it all up. Failing a drug test in college, getting pulled over the week of the draft with MJ in the car. What he did the week of the draft was about as idiotic as it gets. He's risking it all, and that's the message that Carter was trying to tell him. Based on how remorseful Ray is claiming to be, if he's not just spewing BS for the cameras, then he probably fully understands and appreciates what Carter was saying.

Interesting and I didn't really think along these lines. At face value an old former player Ray presumably doesn't know at all becoming overwhelmed with emotion because he got nabbed with a roach in his pocket seems pretty ludicrous. It kind of reminded me of "That's my QB!" honestly - "Your Momma!....Your Momma!!"

I still think it's pretty bizarre but I suppose if you bend over backwards to view it strictly as him risking millions for his family with immature mistakes, I guess? Particularly if you've seen other guys throw it all away pointlessly.

Still seems like a hysterical, borderline display of mental instability, but your comment offers a somewhat sane view of it I hadn't considered.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 01:27 PM
exactly - the message is sound - the context is weird - the delivery is totally bananas.

I know from Carters response to the Peterson Child Abuse thing - he has strong feelings about family and doing right by them - but if you cant deliver that message in a coherent way, it should not be shared.

We are all obviously different people on this board - with different experiences, values and beliefs - and that is cool. But if someone spoke to me like that when i was his age, regardless of who it was i would be thinking "awkward" - people can call that the petulance of youth or whatever.

I'm sure it was awkward. It would awkward at my current age.

However, if I were to judge by his countenance when Cris walked away it had a positive impact on him.

Tned
05-04-2015, 01:31 PM
Interesting and I didn't really think along these lines. At face value an old former player Ray presumably doesn't know at all becoming overwhelmed with emotion because he got nabbed with a roach in his pocket seems pretty ludicrous. It kind of reminded me of "That's my QB!" honestly - "Your Momma!....Your Momma!!"

I still think it's pretty bizarre but I suppose if you bend over backwards to view it strictly as him risking millions for his family with immature mistakes, I guess? Particularly if you've seen other guys throw it all away pointlessly.

Still seems like a hysterical, borderline display of mental instability, but your comment offers a somewhat sane view of it I hadn't considered.

All you have to do is view it in the context of Ray's life. If you haven't seen the piece on ESPN's Draft Academy, you should try and find it.

Ray's immaturity or addiction may mean he winds up like his father, rather than like Carter or other successful NFL players.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 01:34 PM
I would think Demarcus Ware would be a good influence. He will probably be spending a lot more time with Ware than Carter. The intention was probably well, but I don't know if it was really Carters place to say much. And why was it on camera? Was it only for show?

Well, none of us know for sure. It just looked to me like he was overcome with emotion and didn't necessarily intend for the conversation to happen like that...but once again, none of us really know.

Timmy!
05-04-2015, 01:34 PM
#ratings

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 01:34 PM
i think we need to be careful when using words like addiction - totally happy with immaturity though, and although to some people i may be arguing semantics

but to me these things are very different and there is zero evidence at present to support any form of addiction (that i am aware of anyway)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 01:40 PM
i think we need to be careful when using words like addiction - totally happy with immaturity though, and although to some people i may be arguing semantics

but to me these things are very different and there is zero evidence at present to support any form of addiction (that i am aware of anyway)

There is evidence of a pattern, at least.

Timmy!
05-04-2015, 01:40 PM
i think we need to be careful when using words like addiction - totally happy with immaturity though, and although to some people i may be arguing semantics

but to me these things are very different and there is zero evidence at present to support any form of addiction (that i am aware of anyway)

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/07/070168ebc8f92189d7107140fc5150aec8533bc73ba07066c2 467f4ff45d3b43.jpg

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 01:45 PM
There is evidence of a pattern, at least.

I am aware that he has failed a test early on his career - and like everyone, i think he is a risk and his history presents a concern - i just feel that poor choices in a young man and addiction are two ends of the spectrum

MOtorboat
05-04-2015, 02:11 PM
The kid was a dumbass last week. Hopefully that sentence can remain the past tense. That said, I have no desire to watch Cris Carter say dumb things on live TV if I don't have to.

Can someone please fix the butchering of the language that is that thread title? Good grief.

Denver Native (Carol)
05-04-2015, 02:19 PM
Shane, If you quote material from another site, post a link. It's both the correct thing to do and a forum rule. Please fix/edit your post.

As to the clip. I think some of you guys seem to miss the point, which probably isn't lost on Ray. That is that Ray's mother sacrificed a TREMENDOUS amount to try and get Ray out of the horrible circumstances he/they were in. He was getting into trouble, on a fast track to jail, like his father, when she started working an extra job to pay the tuition at a Catholic school, which is where he started playing football.

He has an opportunity to do something great, and that will let him take care of his mother, rewarding her for the sacrifices she made for him, and instead he's risking ******* it all up. Failing a drug test in college, getting pulled over the week of the draft with MJ in the car. What he did the week of the draft was about as idiotic as it gets. He's risking it all, and that's the message that Carter was trying to tell him.

Based on how remorseful Ray is claiming to be, if he's not just spewing BS for the cameras, then he probably fully understands and appreciates what Carter was saying.

Great post, and I totally agree. What better way for someone to get the point across to Shane than Carter - "been there, done that". Stay straight from now on and work towards having a great HOF career.

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 02:30 PM
Was Carter ever addicted to the Marijuana?

Maybe Michael Irvin should talk to him. Cocaine and pot are basically the same thing.

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 02:38 PM
I cant speak for everybody but I do not think the point of the "talk" was lost on anyone, at least not myself. That said, how bizarre was that?

When Deon does his thing with troubled guys like Dez, etc....He never breaks down crying, if he does I suspect he does not just walk off randomly in the middle of his conversation.


Everyone by now knows the back story to Ray, they know that his mom came with him to dove valley. Nothing is missed upon the incredible lady and job she did. Nothing is missed upon the big mess up Shane made last week. What is missed is what the hell happened here in this video. Chris Carter is missed. Literally. He literally went missing. Carter still has some severe regret about whatever he has done in his past and I don't know but am guessing that his mom may be dead now. Either way, it was a very very weird segment or clip or whatever you call it. To the highest degree.

i fully understood what he was trying to do. Cause he does it all the time. And frankly sometimes, he should probably just shut up.

This being one of them.

Beyond that, it was incredibly bizarre. And question what kind of drugs Carter was on during that interview...

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 02:41 PM
Shane ray literally had this view on his face at the end of the interview.... like what just happened to me?

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 02:44 PM
I would think Demarcus Ware would be a good influence. He will probably be spending a lot more time with Ware than Carter. The intention was probably well, but I don't know if it was really Carters place to say much. And why was it on camera? Was it only for show?

which brings up the Vice article point about the whole thing being ridiculous.

Tned
05-04-2015, 02:44 PM
i think we need to be careful when using words like addiction - totally happy with immaturity though, and although to some people i may be arguing semantics

but to me these things are very different and there is zero evidence at present to support any form of addiction (that i am aware of anyway)

That's why I used the conjunction "or" in my sentence. Assuming he isn't immature or an addict, then I guess other possibilities are stupid or self destructive, words we should be just as careful about throwing around.

I could argue, Ray is the one that should have been "careful" as opposed to use forum guys spouting opinions.

That said, if you are pulled over with weed in your possession the week of the draft, where you could be a top 10-15 player, and have a history that includes failing a drug test, that indicates your are either an idiot, VERY immature or an addict.

So, I'm not sure why we need to be so careful about opining in this way.

tomjonesrocks
05-04-2015, 02:47 PM
Shane ray literally had this view on his face at the end of the interview.... like what just happened to me?

Meh, he was fine. I stood there looking sheepish/humbled to me as he did the whole draft. He's standing there in a suit in front of cameras -- I think he'd have looked a certain degree of awkward talking about anything.

Anyway I didn't see a "what the?" look despite that I can't imagine he expected to see Carter reduced to tears.

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 02:48 PM
I think the whole "If you did ____ then you are ____." way of judging a person is ridiculous. People read a few things about a person and classify them. That's part of what's wrong with the world today.

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 02:51 PM
http://m.quickmeme.com/img/07/070168ebc8f92189d7107140fc5150aec8533bc73ba07066c2 467f4ff45d3b43.jpglol


That's why I used the conjunction "or" in my sentence. Assuming he isn't immature or an addict, then I guess other possibilities are stupid or self destructive, words we should be just as careful about throwing around.

I could argue, Ray is the one that should have been "careful" as opposed to use forum guys spouting opinions.

That said, if you are pulled over with weed in your possession the week of the draft, where you could be a top 10-15 player, and have a history that includes failing a drug test, that indicates your are either an idiot, VERY immature or an addict.

So, I'm not sure why we need to be so careful about opining in this way.
maybe because weed is not physically addicting.

And with that said, he would not be a bronco if that did not happen, and he will not be in trouble for that in Colorado. Officer would have pulled him over, and said "move along". So.........

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 02:51 PM
fair enough.

Cannabis "addicts" in itself is not a common thing.

If someone is an addict they will literally do whatever they need to do to meet the needs of their addiction, once someone is addicted there is a physical and psychological component part and it is a medical condition.

Shane Ray was pulled over with a small amount of weed. That does not scream at me "addict"

The term addict is a big thing, that requires specialist intervention - i just think we are doing the kid a disservice to call him that with the evidence that we have (a failed drug test early in his Mizzou career and this recent incident involving a physiologically non addictive substance)

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 02:58 PM
fair enough.

Cannabis "addicts" in itself is not a common thing.

If someone is an addict they will literally do whatever they need to do to meet the needs of their addiction, once someone is addicted there is a physical and psychological component part and it is a medical condition.

Shane Ray was pulled over with a small amount of weed. That does not scream at me "addict"

The term addict is a big thing, that requires specialist intervention - i just think we are doing the kid a disservice to call him that with the evidence that we have (a failed drug test early in his Mizzou career and this recent incident involving a physiologically non addictive substance)

I'm addicted to caffeine, porn, and masturbating. I'm not sure how it's all related.

Denver Native (Carol)
05-04-2015, 02:59 PM
i think we need to be careful when using words like addiction - totally happy with immaturity though, and although to some people i may be arguing semantics

but to me these things are very different and there is zero evidence at present to support any form of addiction (that i am aware of anyway)


Yes. Over time, overstimulation of the endocannabinoid system by marijuana use can cause changes in the brain that lead to addiction, a condition in which a person cannot stop using a drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. It is estimated that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it.10,11 The number goes up to about 17 percent in those who start using young (in their teens) and to 25 to 50 percent among daily users.12,13 According to the 2013 NSDUH, marijuana accounted for 4.2 million of the estimated 6.9 million Americans dependent on or abusing illicit drugs.3

rest - http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 02:59 PM
I'm addicted to caffeine, porn, and masturbating. I'm not sure how it's all related.
i am addicted to super pretzels with cheese.

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:01 PM
rest - http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive

please find another link then people who get paid to publish negative studies about weed and keeping it illegal.

NIH are the same numbnuts who keep trying to claim it as a gateway drug.

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:04 PM
here is a good link :) That rips apart that study.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/what-marijuana-addiction



Volkow’s latest report claims, “Approximately nine percent of those who experiment with marijuana will become addicted. The number goes up to about one in six among those who start using marijuana as teenagers and to 25 to 50 percent among those who smoke marijuana daily.”

Whenever I read a statistic with such a range as “25 to 50 percent,” I am immediately doubtful of its veracity. Add to that my personal experiences of watching my dad try to kick booze, speed, and cigarettes, and I think I have a pretty good idea what “addicted” means. As one of the people who smoke marijuana daily, either I’m in that 50 to 75 percent who didn’t get addicted, or Dr. Volkow is stretching the meaning of “addiction” to “daily marijuana user,” which makes it a tautology.
These marijuana addiction statistics are based on the criteria psychologists use to categorize mental illness. These criteria are contained in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders, known as the DSM. The new fifth edition, the DSM-V, was just released in May of last year, but Dr. Volkow’s “nine percent” and “one in six teens” statistics have been bandied about far prior to 2013. I recall Kevin Sabet and Project SAM using those lines back in 2012 and I’ve seen the “nine percent” figure as early as 2008.

That means the “marijuana addiction” referred to by Dr. Volkow and others must be the form described in the previous manual, the DSM-IV. According to that version, a marijuana smoker who exhibits three or more of the following symptoms within a year suffers from “cannabis dependence” -- the scientific literature’s term for marijuana addiction:

Tolerance, as defined by: A need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect.
Tolerance, as defined by: Markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance.

So, the fact that you’ve been smoking pot long enough that a single puff off a joint doesn’t turn you into a giggling idiot means you may be a marijuana addict!

Denver Native (Carol)
05-04-2015, 03:05 PM
please find another link then people who get paid to publish negative studies about weed and keeping it illegal.

NIH are the same numbnuts who keep trying to claim it as a gateway drug.

http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/marijuana.htm

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:08 PM
http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/marijuana.htm
They still are using the same report.....

Poet
05-04-2015, 03:08 PM
Chris carter has lost his damn mind.
Shane must have felt really awkward :lol:

Cris Carter broke down in tears on camera when he was talking about Adrian Peterson's case. He's an emotional dude. When he left the Eagles he had drug issues and a lot of teams backed away from him even though his talent level was absurdly good. This is the same guy who tried his best to mentor Randy Moss and set him on the straight and narrow. The dude has fought his own inner demons, and I think that the guy cares about NFL players. I'm not saying that he's a saint, nor am I saying that he's perfect, but Carter is about as honest and forthright in those moments as you'll get on cable television.

I honestly think that you're taking issue with the post because Carter is trying to 'help' a guy whose in trouble for having weed, and you think that's dumb. Don't let that aspect of it cloud your thought process.

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:11 PM
Cris Carter broke down in tears on camera when he was talking about Adrian Peterson's case. He's an emotional dude. When he left the Eagles he had drug issues and a lot of teams backed away from him even though his talent level was absurdly good. This is the same guy who tried his best to mentor Randy Moss and set him on the straight and narrow. The dude has fought his own inner demons, and I think that the guy cares about NFL players. I'm not saying that he's a saint, nor am I saying that he's perfect, but Carter is about as honest and forthright in those moments as you'll get on cable television.

I honestly think that you're taking issue with the post because Carter is trying to 'help' a guy whose in trouble for having weed, and you think that's dumb. Don't let that aspect of it cloud your thought process.

fair enough, but i thought his AP thing was a bit "over the top" as well. I get sick of the preaching.

tomjonesrocks
05-04-2015, 03:11 PM
I think it could also be judged kinda dumb because Ray owned it about as well as you can. He did a hell of a lot better than Von Miller did. How much more contrition could he have showed?

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:13 PM
I think it could also be judged kinda dumb because Ray owned it about as well as you can. He did a hell of a lot better than Von Miller did. How much more contrition could he have showed?

Ray obviously knows he cant do it again, while he plays in the NFL. I dont think he needs a bunch of people preaching to him about it.

tomjonesrocks
05-04-2015, 03:14 PM
Ray obviously knows he cant do it again. I dont think he needs a bunch of people preaching to him about it.

He definitely has the "testify!" Thing going.

NEVER let down yo' momma!

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 03:18 PM
I honestly think that you're taking issue with the post because Carter is trying to 'help' a guy whose in trouble for having weed, and you think that's dumb. Don't let that aspect of it cloud your thought process.

Weird you mention this - i actually think so many people are taking exception to the post - because so many people hate shane and his politcal views

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:19 PM
fair enough.

Cannabis "addicts" in itself is not a common thing.

If someone is an addict they will literally do whatever they need to do to meet the needs of their addiction, once someone is addicted there is a physical and psychological component part and it is a medical condition.

Shane Ray was pulled over with a small amount of weed. That does not scream at me "addict"

The term addict is a big thing, that requires specialist intervention - i just think we are doing the kid a disservice to call him that with the evidence that we have (a failed drug test early in his Mizzou career and this recent incident involving a physiologically non addictive substance)

So, I guess you are saying that Shane Ray is a low IQ neanderthal who could not grasp that his actions could cost him millions or tens of millions of dollars.

Fair enough, we'll just go with that.

I'm not going to debate pot with you and Shane, because you guys are really pushing the limits of the rules (Shane, as always, is just ignoring them on his weed brain crusade) with your posts in here vs. being in politics. So, I'm not going to debate the addictive (or any other) properties of weed.

FanInAZ
05-04-2015, 03:20 PM
here is a good link :) That rips apart that study.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/what-marijuana-addiction

So you denounce an authoritative source due to bias that comes from them getting money to say bad things about MJ, then produce a source that makes money by selling ads for MJ paraphernalia? :confused:

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:21 PM
I'm not going to debate pot with you and Shane, because you guys are really pushing the limits of the rules (Shane, as always, is just ignoring them on his weed brain crusade) with your posts in here vs. being in politics. So, I'm not going to debate the addictive (or any other) properties of weed.
you know.... you brought up addiction. Not us.....


So you denounce an authoritative source due to bias that comes from them getting money to say bad things about MJ, then produce a source that makes money by selling ads for MJ paraphernalia? :confused:

which is why i put the smiley face. As a joke ;)

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:23 PM
you know.... you brought up addiction. Not us.....

Which was not a debate about weed. I said, "immature or addicted" and you being the weed troll that you are, continued your pro weed crusade.

You can control whether or not you're a troll. You choose "to be" rather than "not to be."

ShaneFalco
05-04-2015, 03:25 PM
whatever floats your boat TNED.

Guy is getting lectured about getting pulled over for weed, and we discuss it, and somehow im on a crusade....

for what ? Its already legal here. Nothing to crusade about.

I have a feeling ill be called stoner soon, so ill just jog on to a dif thread.

Poet
05-04-2015, 03:29 PM
fair enough, but i thought his AP thing was a bit "over the top" as well. I get sick of the preaching.

IIRC Carter's parents beat him like a rented mule. The problem with saying 'I get sick of the preaching' isn't that it's wrong, but the way that the conversation is going it feels like any statement that has emotion with it is going to be qualified as preaching. A.P. was a man who beat his child severely and bragged about it on text messages to his wife. His kid was three, and now that guy is probably going to be suiting up to play football somewhere this season. I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, but we're on different wavelengths here.

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:30 PM
whatever floats your boat TNED.

Guy is getting lectured about getting pulled over for weed, and we discuss it, and somehow im on a crusade....

for what ? Its already legal here. Nothing to crusade about.

Don't pretend your an idiot or stoned. You know VERY well, because you've been warned by the mods countless times, that politics is the place for your to post how pot cures everything from anorexia to Zellweger syndrome.

In Broncos Talk, you can discuss things like whether you think Carter was wrong for talking to him, or what type of suspension Ray could get if he ****s up again, etc., but can't go on your pro weed rants or engage people in debates about weed.

If you persist, I'll report it and the mods will likely have to delete your posts or move this thread to politics.

Remember, you have the power to not be a troll --- unless of course you are addicted to being a troll....

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 03:32 PM
So, I guess you are saying that Shane Ray is a low IQ neanderthal who could not grasp that his actions could cost him millions or tens of millions of dollars.

Fair enough, we'll just go with that.

This does me a huge disservice - we may disagree on things, but i always think through my arguments at least.

I am not saying that - he is a Neanderthal - but i do think he is of an age where his pre frontal cortex has not yet fully formed, therefore he still uses his amygdala to help him identify risk and make decisions based on emotions (often closely linked to peer perception) therefore he has made some bad choices.

I also know he had a rough childhood - i also know that outcomes for children who were neglected are worse than those who were physically abused as a result of the different impact on brain development

So if anything, i think his actions can be explained by his age and life experiences - hence why i agreed whole hearteefly with your "immaturity" comment.

Timmy!
05-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Dent is getting his ass handed to him in this thread.

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:41 PM
This does me a huge disservice - we may disagree on things, but i always think through my arguments at least.

I am not saying that - he is a Neanderthal - but i do think he is of an age where his pre frontal cortex has not yet fully formed, therefore he still uses his amygdala to help him identify risk and make decisions based on emotions (often closely linked to peer perception) therefore he has made some bad choices.

I also know he had a rough childhood - i also know that outcomes for children who were neglected are worse than those who were physically abused as a result of the different impact on brain development

So if anything, i think his actions can be explained by his age and life experiences - hence why i agreed whole hearteefly with your "immaturity" comment.

My over the top point was that we simply don't know why he has at least twice now gotten in trouble on drug related issues.

What is pretty clear is that you must either be addicted or immature/stupid to cost yourself millions or tens of millions of dollars by getting pulled over with drugs the week of the draft.

All he had to do was keep his nose clean until after the draft. Not doing so indicates a problem of some kind. I don't know exactly what that problem is, no more than you know exactly what that problem "isn't." Hence the reason that my statement that you and Shane took offense to had an "or" in it. I didn't call him an addict, I opined on what could make him do such a self destructive thing.

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:42 PM
Dent is getting his ass handed to him in this thread.

I'm at a disadvantage, I'm sober.

Poet
05-04-2015, 03:43 PM
Tned, maybe he's not stupid or immature, but really stressed, and made a poor choice. I don't think human emotions and human actions can be easily packaged into categories like that.

Timmy!
05-04-2015, 03:44 PM
I'm at a disadvantage, I'm sober.

Touché

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:44 PM
Tned, maybe he's not stupid or immature, but really stressed, and made a poor choice. I don't think human emotions and human actions can be easily packaged into categories like that.

Apparently to the thread starter, Cris Carter's can be.

Poet
05-04-2015, 03:45 PM
At least he's not Johnny Manziel.

I definitely think Carter is being demonized for trying to be a standup dude. Even if we are to agree that his actions are out of place -I wouldn't concede that myself- he has a long track record of giving a damn. That's not 'losing his mind'.

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 03:45 PM
Hence the reason that my statement that you and Shane took offense to had an "or" in it. I didn't call him an addict, I opined on what could make him do such a self destructive thing.

I took no offense.

I just thought it was an unnecessary use of a word that perhaps i apply more significance to that others - but that has ZERO to do with my views on MJ, it is about my understanding of the word "addict" - But like i said in that original post - some people will think i am debating semantics.

Tned
05-04-2015, 03:48 PM
I took no offense.

I just thought it was an unnecessary use of a word that perhaps i apply more significance to that others - but that has ZERO to do with my views on MJ, it is about my understanding of the word "addict" - But like i said in that original post - some people will think i am debating semantics.

And I think you hyper-focused on a word, rather than the point of my post.

Neither of us know whether or not he is addicted to weed or anything else. We don't know if he's immature. We don't know why he did what he did (he blamed someone else, but said he had to own it).

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 04:00 PM
i think we need to be careful when using words like addiction - totally happy with immaturity though, and although to some people i may be arguing semantics

but to me these things are very different and there is zero evidence at present to support any form of addiction (that i am aware of anyway)


And I think you hyper-focused on a word, rather than the point of my post.

Neither of us know whether or not he is addicted to weed or anything else. We don't know if he's immature. We don't know why he did what he did (he blamed someone else, but said he had to own it).

I dont think i hyper-focused on anything - i made a generalised statement that offered a warning about the use of a certain word, whilst acknowledging my potential over emphasis on the meaning of the word as i understand it - I also acknowledged the validity of your point regarding immaturity (which i then went on to further explain in a later post with a focus on brain development).

I also mentioned cannabis addiction is rare (which it is - backed up by Carol's study) and was accused of breaking the rules.

Then in a post to Timmy you implied i was drunk.

I feel like comments i have made have been over reacted to because partly because i agree with Shane, partly because i disagree with you.

GEM
05-04-2015, 04:07 PM
Interesting and I didn't really think along these lines. At face value an old former player Ray presumably doesn't know at all becoming overwhelmed with emotion because he got nabbed with a roach in his pocket seems pretty ludicrous. It kind of reminded me of "That's my QB!" honestly - "Your Momma!....Your Momma!!"

I still think it's pretty bizarre but I suppose if you bend over backwards to view it strictly as him risking millions for his family with immature mistakes, I guess? Particularly if you've seen other guys throw it all away pointlessly.

Still seems like a hysterical, borderline display of mental instability, but your comment offers a somewhat sane view of it I hadn't considered.

Especially when you consider what he was pulled over for to begin with...Driving in the left lane. Something every one of us does probably on the daily if we live in a large city. Sounds more like a bullshit excuse to pull over and search the car...

weazel
05-04-2015, 04:14 PM
this thread got ugly... I think I'm going to stay out of this one.

GEM
05-04-2015, 04:22 PM
Just got through the last couple pages. Geez, c'mon guys...really there is no reason to be talking to each other like that. Get to your points without getting personal. Yes, weed is a slippery slope on the board, but in relations to a player who was just picked up by the Broncos, it's pertinent.

Maybe ya'll can just talk to the point of breaking a rule if ya'll can't talk about the weed without it becoming a flame war with each other.

Tned
05-04-2015, 04:22 PM
I dont think i hyper-focused on anything - i made a generalised statement that offered a warning about the use of a certain word, whilst acknowledging my potential over emphasis on the meaning of the word as i understand it - I also acknowledged the validity of your point regarding immaturity (which i then went on to further explain in a later post with a focus on brain development).

I also mentioned cannabis addiction is rare (which it is - backed up by Carol's study) and was accused of breaking the rules.

Then in a post to Timmy you implied i was drunk.

I feel like comments i have made have been over reacted to because partly because i agree with Shane, partly because i disagree with you.

I didn't imply you were drunk. Stoned maybe, but not drunk. ;)

Because things were getting tense and due to the topic of the thread, that was a joke.

The fact you took it as anything more than a joke, shows the tension in the thread.

I'm not going to debate cannabis outside of politics, forum rules, so I won't address the cannabis addiction thing.

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Forum Runner

underrated29
05-04-2015, 04:36 PM
Cris Carter broke down in tears on camera when he was talking about Adrian Peterson's case. He's an emotional dude. When he left the Eagles he had drug issues and a lot of teams backed away from him even though his talent level was absurdly good. This is the same guy who tried his best to mentor Randy Moss and set him on the straight and narrow. The dude has fought his own inner demons, and I think that the guy cares about NFL players. I'm not saying that he's a saint, nor am I saying that he's perfect, but Carter is about as honest and forthright in those moments as you'll get on cable television.

I honestly think that you're taking issue with the post because Carter is trying to 'help' a guy whose in trouble for having weed, and you think that's dumb. Don't let that aspect of it cloud your thought process.


This thread has gotten just as weird as the video.

If I am not mistaken no one has taken up issue with what CC was doing. I think everyone appreciates it, simply as a human being, if not solely because of broncos fandom and our new player. The funny part about it was how he exited from his own.....lecture?......for lack of a better word atm. I think you know what I mean.


My over the top point was that we simply don't know why he has at least twice now gotten in trouble on drug related issues.

What is pretty clear is that you must either be addicted or immature/stupid to cost yourself millions or tens of millions of dollars by getting pulled over with drugs the week of the draft.

All he had to do was keep his nose clean until after the draft. Not doing so indicates a problem of some kind. I don't know exactly what that problem is, no more than you know exactly what that problem "isn't." Hence the reason that my statement that you and Shane took offense to had an "or" in it. I didn't call him an addict, I opined on what could make him do such a self destructive thing.



All well and good but I do not think that was the purpose of this thread. I think the purpose was how awkward and bizarre this taking to started and ended.

Now, there may be carry over from the other Shane Ray threads in which I am sure there is a ton of talk about pot and his actions a week prior to the draft that I am just not aware of. If so, this makes more sense. As an outsider, to me, who has only clicked on the thread and watched the weird video, I think this is all a sub topic that is not about the initial purpose of the thread (like I said, that I know of anyway)

underrated29
05-04-2015, 04:37 PM
PS- King, the Bengals had a really good draft and took a few players I wanted the broncos to get. So good on them and I hate you for their drafting!

BroncoJoe
05-04-2015, 04:54 PM
I try to avoid these threads like the plague. BUT...

It's not rocket science. If you are caught with any kind of controlled substance in your possession or system, IN ANY JOB, it is a problem. I don't care if MJ is legal or not. You can't show up to work drunk. You can't show up to work high. If I got a DUI on a Sunday, and the papers reported it, I'd be in trouble at work. Plain and simple. I don't think I'd be fired, but if it has happened more than once, they'd take their first opportunity to kick me to the curb. Missed quota this month? Bye bye.

I get that people should be able to do what they want in the privacy of their own home. That's just it - IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOME. If they either 1) can't limit their use to their home, there's most likely a problem and 2) if they can't limit their use right before a major life-altering event, it's a problem.

Call it addiction or whatever. To me, if someone can't stop doing something they know will have a negative effect on their life or livelihood, it's addiction.

Not the politics forum, I know, but I had to respond to some of the posts here.

PS - I'm glad he's a Bronco and wish him many, many years of success.

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 05:00 PM
I try to avoid these threads like the plague. BUT...

It's not rocket science. If you are caught with any kind of controlled substance in your possession or system, IN ANY JOB, it is a problem. I don't care if MJ is legal or not. You can't show up to work drunk. You can't show up to work high. If I got a DUI on a Sunday, and the papers reported it, I'd be in trouble at work. Plain and simple. I don't think I'd be fired, but if it has happened more than once, they'd take their first opportunity to kick me to the curb. Missed quota this month? Bye bye.

I get that people should be able to do what they want in the privacy of their own home. That's just it - IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOME. If they either 1) can't limit their use to their home, there's most likely a problem and 2) if they can't limit their use right before a major life-altering event, it's a problem.

Call it addiction or whatever. To me, if someone can't stop doing something they know will have a negative effect on their life or livelihood, it's addiction.

Not the politics forum, I know, but I had to respond to some of the posts here.

PS - I'm glad he's a Bronco and wish him many, many years of success.

No one had said what he did was ok. Not one. He is an athlete and will be held to a higher account - rightly so.

My initial contribution still stands - what Carter did was weird IMO and would have little effect at changing behavior (especially if there is an "addiction" to any substance)

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 05:00 PM
Ps - I am also glad he is a bronco

BroncoJoe
05-04-2015, 05:01 PM
No one had said what he did was ok. Not one. He is an athlete and will be held to a higher account - rightly so.

My initial contribution still stands - what Carter did was weird IMO and would have little effect at changing behavior (especially if there is an "addiction" to any substance)

No one cares what you think, Dave.

;)

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 05:03 PM
No one cares what you think, Dave.

;)

Lol gfy Joe

weazel
05-04-2015, 05:05 PM
I think it may have done Ray some good as he seemed to be paying attention and listening to what Carter had to say... right up until he sobs and races out of the room. Sorry, but that was absolutely embarrassing and Ray probably forgot everything that was just said to him. I have always like Cris Carter and thought he was a hell of a player so I'm not going to say anything bad about the guy but that wasn't handled well at all.

Bronco4ever
05-04-2015, 05:31 PM
Maybe the awkwardness of this talk will help Shane from making bad decisions so he won't have another talk like this with Cris Carter.

https://scientiasalon.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/philosoraptor-dinosaur-thinking.jpg?w=120&h=120&crop=1

Tned
05-04-2015, 05:48 PM
No one had said what he did was ok. Not one. He is an athlete and will be held to a higher account - rightly so.

My initial contribution still stands - what Carter did was weird IMO and would have little effect at changing behavior (especially if there is an "addiction" to any substance)

IMO, not so weird when you see that Shane Ray has done multiple interviews, including the ESPN Draft Academy piece, where he talks about the road to hell he was on until his mother put him in the new school. Combine that with the fact that a significant portion of NFL players either pray or thank God at the beginning of interviews and stuff like that, and older or retired players are often working with at risk younger players, and the ONLY thing weird about it was that I don't think it's something the cameras should have been rolling on.

Valar Morghulis
05-04-2015, 05:52 PM
IMO, not so weird when you see that Shane Ray has done multiple interviews, including the ESPN Draft Academy piece, where he talks about the road to hell he was on until his mother put him in the new school. Combine that with the fact that a significant portion of NFL players either pray or thank God at the beginning of interviews and stuff like that, and older or retired players are often working with at risk younger players, and the ONLY thing weird about it was that I don't think it's something the cameras should have been rolling on.

I agree with this, but I think his delivery was weird - not the content, the message or intent. Storming off crying after losing his words was weird to me as well.

Northman
05-04-2015, 05:55 PM
Guess i saw this entirely different than most. Seems like Cris is just disappointed that players are still coming into the league making some bad choices along the way and he cant understand why they dont use better judgement when the opportunities are there. Guess he feels like he is a broken record at this point by trying to help these guys understand how important it is to make better and sound decisions. At least that is what i took from it.

Tned
05-04-2015, 06:05 PM
I agree with this, but I think his delivery was weird - not the content, the message or intent. Storming off crying after losing his words was weird to me as well.

Like I said, the whole thing on camera was weird, but clearly he's an emotional guy and wasn't just giving lip service, but clearly meant what he was saying and was caught up in the emotions.

Once he gets that caught up in the emotions, was he supposed to stand their blubbering or exit stage right?

MOtorboat
05-04-2015, 06:10 PM
Like I said, the whole thing on camera was weird, but clearly he's an emotional guy and wasn't just giving lip service, but clearly meant what he was saying and was caught up in the emotions.

Once he gets that caught up in the emotions, was he supposed to stand their blubbering or exit stage right?

It was awkward on television. I don't know how either felt about it afterwards, but I would say there's a level of entertainment and timing to that, as well. ESPN has 2 minutes in that segment to talk about Shane Ray, and 30 seconds to show Cris Carter and Shane Ray talking (clearly not an interview, but one in which Ray and Carter agreed to be filmed). As a producer, do you air the 30 seconds that's most compelling, or do you air another 30 seconds of what was probably a 10-minute interaction (maybe more) that is less compelling?

Maybe some of that is unfair to Ray, but he clearly agreed to the talk being filmed, so I don't know.

His message, ultimately, is a good one. Ray already cost himself a couple of million bucks by the Monday incident. Randy Gregory cost himself an estimated 8 million in his slide.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 06:54 PM
Ray obviously knows he cant do it again, while he plays in the NFL. I dont think he needs a bunch of people preaching to him about it.

I don't know...he might actually view it as people expressing care....something he never got from his dad.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 07:02 PM
here is a good link :) That rips apart that study.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/what-marijuana-addiction

Holy crap, you just referenced high times as a credible source. :laugh:

thanks man, I needed that.

GEM
05-04-2015, 07:32 PM
Alrighty then....

Let's just stick to the topic from here on out and that is Cris Carter's emotional talk with Shane Guy.

No more High Time's Drugs are good, mmmmkay.

No more Drug Enforcement Agency's Drugs are bad, mmmmkay.

Just keep it at the basic level of the message of a kid making a mistake and then MAYBE we can stop with the personal attacks and all the other bullshit that stemmed from talking about something apparently we as adults can't handle talking about without it turning into personal attacks and all that other bullshit.

Personal feelings aside, he had some weed in his car, therefore weed is going to come up in the thread. Some think it's good, some think it's bad, but all that jazz goes in P&R. Keep this one on the topic of the video, not personal feelings on pot.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 07:35 PM
Gem-

Earlier you referenced him getting pulled over for being in the left lane. I think he was speeding too, wasn't he?

Tned
05-04-2015, 07:38 PM
Gem-

Earlier you referenced him getting pulled over for being in the left lane. I think he was speeding too, wasn't he?

Left lane, as in oncoming lane, or left lane as in left lane of an interstate (some states have laws saying you must be in right lane, some states don't).

GEM
05-04-2015, 07:39 PM
Left lane, as in oncoming lane, or left lane as in left lane of an interstate (some states have laws saying you must be in right lane, some states don't).

Riding the fast lane. I didn't see anything on speeding.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-04-2015, 07:49 PM
Riding the fast lane. I didn't see anything on speeding.

I might be thinking of someone else I know.

Correction...this article states he was pulled over for speeding. I am somewhat relieved he wasn't impaired. I suppose if he was he likely wouldn't have been drafted by us.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/story/_/id/12777400/shane-ray-former-missouri-tigers-linebacker-cited-marijuana-possession

Poet
05-04-2015, 07:51 PM
I want to say this because it is pretty pertinent - the weed 'problem' in the NFL is on it's last legs. Pretty soon the league will not be able to sustain fines and suspensions for the possession of this drug. The attitude towards the drug is changing, states are starting to experiment with its legalization and decriminalization. What this means is that while we surely cannot condone any issues with illegal driving in terms of the movement of the car, we can at least understand that the drug in which we are talking about is starting to be re-understood.

That context alone is sufficient to discuss the issue in this thread and under the rules of the message board. I can understand where Falco is coming from because in a sense Carter was reacting strongly to a young man with the possession of that newly contextualized drug. I can understand Carter's stance, because he has personal experience with drug abuse, the drug is still illegal federally, it is against the rules of the league, and having said drug during that time period was a mental lapse of a serious order.

Take it a step further: why he had the drug is a mystery. We don't have that context. We can, and in some instances have, speculated about why the drug was there. I think that matters a lot. Intent and reasons always matter. To give an extreme example, the law and society does not view every instance of taking a life the same way. A premeditated murder is not punished/thought of the same way as self-defense. I mean to convey that if we 'knew' that Ray had the weed on him because he didn't care about league rules we would think about it differently than if we 'knew' that he had it on him because he was stressed and scared.

Ultimately the context I write about above is irrelevant, and that is either incredible or awful. Ray could literally not care about the rules and stop smoking for whatever reason. He could really care about the rules, be sad that he messed up, and then go on and smoke. You can mix and match it any way that you want, really. He is now in a position where he gets to make and control the narrative about how we remember him.

The sad irony is that if we are to believe that this kind of drug use is bad -I said IF and I am NOT debating it either way- then in a very direct way the Broncos benefited from his misfortune. Sometimes it's pretty obvious that the professional football makes a bad habit out of that.

Tned
05-04-2015, 08:04 PM
King, some interesting points, but all irrelevent from the stand point that it's against college and NFL rules. Period. As it relates to BroncosTalk threads, the only issue is that Ray has made some real bad decisions and broken rules. Will it be against the rules next year or in five years?

Who knows. It doesn't really matter, because it's against the rules now, and he starts his NFL career in the drug program, getting randomly tested, rather than only being tested in a narrow window.

The logic of it might not be illegal (or against the rules) some day, is like trying to make the case to a cop that while you were doing 55 in a 35 zone, you could see the 55 MPH sign, and you would be doing the speed limit if he clocked you 300 yards later. Or, trying to make the case if you are arrested for MJ possession in Ohio that public sentiment is changing, so it's just a matter of time before it isn't illegal, so therefore you don't need to follow the law.

Rules are rules, and the only issue is that he both broke the law and NFL rules and as a result cost himself millions and gets to start his carreer in the drug program.

Now, as to the Broncos, I agree his stupidity helped the Broncos -- assuming this was a two time deal, and he won't get nailed the third, fourth, fifth time and start getting suspensions.

Dzone
05-04-2015, 08:13 PM
I really like Shane Ray. Such a likeable kid and a great American story.
Hopefully he accepts full responsibility for screwing up and not use that "I was influenced by someone" crap.

Poet
05-04-2015, 08:42 PM
King, some interesting points, but all irrelevent from the stand point that it's against college and NFL rules. Period. As it relates to BroncosTalk threads, the only issue is that Ray has made some real bad decisions and broken rules. Will it be against the rules next year or in five years?

Who knows. It doesn't really matter, because it's against the rules now, and he starts his NFL career in the drug program, getting randomly tested, rather than only being tested in a narrow window.

The logic of it might not be illegal (or against the rules) some day, is like trying to make the case to a cop that while you were doing 55 in a 35 zone, you could see the 55 MPH sign, and you would be doing the speed limit if he clocked you 300 yards later. Or, trying to make the case if you are arrested for MJ possession in Ohio that public sentiment is changing, so it's just a matter of time before it isn't illegal, so therefore you don't need to follow the law.

Rules are rules, and the only issue is that he both broke the law and NFL rules and as a result cost himself millions and gets to start his carreer in the drug program.

Now, as to the Broncos, I agree his stupidity helped the Broncos -- assuming this was a two time deal, and he won't get nailed the third, fourth, fifth time and start getting suspensions.

That was addressed. The topic is definitely more complex than that, but we can agree to disagree.

Dapper Dan
05-04-2015, 08:53 PM
I'm happy that he conducted himself well. Especially with all the stuff going on about cops. And he wasn't impaired. Being pulled over for using the fast lane of the interstate is a bit picky. But it was against the rules and he chose to do it. Hopefully he learned his lesson.

TXBRONC
05-04-2015, 09:08 PM
I really like Shane Ray. Such a likeable kid and a great American story.
Hopefully he accepts full responsibility for screwing up and not use that "I was influenced by someone" crap.

So far it sounds as if he's taking responsibility.

tomjonesrocks
05-04-2015, 09:10 PM
And he wasn't impaired.

Yeah, that's something. Cruising along with a joint but stone sober.

How much did that really cost him? He wasn't going top 10. Who takes him earlier?

Tned
05-04-2015, 09:33 PM
Yeah, that's something. Cruising along with a joint but stone sober.

How much did that really cost him? He wasn't going top 10. Who takes him earlier?

Assuming he would have gone in the 10-15 range, which seems to be what most people were projecting prior to the incident, it probably cost him $1-2 million over four years.

However, some mocks a week or two prior to him getting pulled over had him in the 6th or 8th spot, and that would have been $4-8 million more than the Broncos paid him over four years.

Simple Jaded
05-04-2015, 09:37 PM
I'm sorry but Ray had to be thinking Wtf-ing-F? watching Carter go all Real Housewives of Atlanta on him.

Denver Native (Carol)
05-04-2015, 10:19 PM
Craig Kuligowski, the defensive line coach at Missouri, hesitates, wracking his brain for pivotal moments in his four seasons with Shane Ray. There have been many for the Broncos' first-round draft pick, who has overcome years of feeling abandoned by his father, a string of deaths in his family and growing up in an 8-mile swath of Kansas City known as "The Murder Factory." But there's one that stands out to Kuligowski.

"Oh, here's a good moment," he begins.

It was the Tigers' fourth game last fall. Missouri was hosting Indiana, a team that lost to Bowling Green the week before.

The Tigers were heavy favorites, but they didn't have their star defensive end, Markus Golden, a senior and the team's vocal leader. Golden injured his hamstring in practice the week before.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28037783/shane-rays-rise-stardom-started-at-rock-bottom?source=infinite

long article - but worth reading. I hope Shane does great for the Broncos.

Valar Morghulis
05-05-2015, 12:04 AM
Like I said, the whole thing on camera was weird, but clearly he's an emotional guy and wasn't just giving lip service, but clearly meant what he was saying and was caught up in the emotions.

Once he gets that caught up in the emotions, was he supposed to stand their blubbering or exit stage right?

He should have left - like he did.

That does not mean Shane Ray benefited from this interaction nor does it mean it wasn't weird.

There send to be two stands to this thread:

People that think Carter looked stupid and

People who want to stick up for him as he was doing a good thing.

All the drugs chat is almost subtext.

Best intentions don't make something right, and if this was an intervention, designed to change behavior I don't it would be effective.

I don't think someone who is passionate or a hof wr or who had done good things in the past should be immune from criticism when they start projecting their own emotions and issues onto others on national tv.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-05-2015, 12:23 AM
He should have left - like he did.

That does not mean Shane Ray benefited from this interaction nor does it mean it wasn't weird.

There send to be two stands to this thread:

People that think Carter looked stupid and

People who want to stick up for him as he was doing a good thing.

All the drugs chat is almost subtext.

Best intentions don't make something right, and if this was an intervention, designed to change behavior I don't it would be effective.

I don't think someone who is passionate or a hof wr or who had done good things in the past should be immune from criticism when they start projecting their own emotions and issues onto others on national tv.

I think you make fair and valid points. I would also contend that Cris may not have wasted his time if he didn't think Shane Ray was a willing listener. I really am starting to think he's a good kid who really wants to do the right thing

Valar Morghulis
05-05-2015, 12:29 AM
I would also contend that Cris may not have wasted his time if he didn't think Shane Ray was a willing listener. I really am starting to think he's a good kid who really wants to do the right thing

I hope so.

FanInAZ
05-06-2015, 01:18 AM
Riding the fast lane. I didn't see anything on speeding.

According to the article in the OP, he was just given a warning for that.

weazel
05-11-2015, 12:17 PM
Guess i saw this entirely different than most. Seems like Cris is just disappointed that players are still coming into the league making some bad choices along the way and he cant understand why they dont use better judgement when the opportunities are there. Guess he feels like he is a broken record at this point by trying to help these guys understand how important it is to make better and sound decisions. At least that is what i took from it.

but you're a Pats fan and you hate the Broncos :coffee:

Northman
05-11-2015, 12:28 PM
but you're a Pats fan and you hate the Broncos :coffee:

Oh yea, sorry. lmao