Virgil Green

[VonDoom]

Looks pretty official, so I thought I'd start a new thread. See Legwold:

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 1m1 minute ago

Virgil Green has informed #Bears hes staying with #Broncos.

Welcome back, Virgil!

[VonDoom]

According to the official site, it's a three year deal:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Virgil-Green-agrees-to-terms-to-re-sign-with-Broncos/af59d530-06d5-47a6-a912-4e9d2ea4a749

[MileHighCrew]

this is awesome signing. Maybe more important that JT

[ShaneFalco]

awesome to have him back.

[Northman]

Great signing.

[tomjonesrocks]

Important.

[LTC Pain]

#Broncos and TE @VGreen85 have agreed to terms on new three-year deal.

Details: [http://t.co/wER0tnFW7t]

#BroncosFA http://t.co/rihhAGuWP0

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ALSO

LB Steven Johnson to return to Broncos

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/LB-Steven-Johnson-to-return-to-Broncos/da83e661-80ca-42e8-b881-7b67c4f8ab3e

[VonDoom]

Denver Post Broncos ‏@PostBroncos 1m1 minute ago

UDPATE: Virgil Green's 3-year deal with the #Broncos is worth $8.4 million.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 10m10 minutes ago

Julius and Virgil are good friends. Julius' departure made Virgil a few extra bucks. That's what friends do. #broncos.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 9m9 minutes ago

Guarantee Virgil Green will set a career-high in receptions next season, probably by week seven.

Cecil Lammey ‏@CecilLammey 16m16 minutes ago

Great move for #Broncos to wrap up Virgil Green. Seriously underrated receiver. I'll say 30-40 catches this year as TE2 in Kubiak's offense

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 23m

Broncos have their "blocking'' TE again. Virgil Green 3-year deal, agreed to terms. Now to team him with Owen Daniels.

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 52m

Hunch: TE Owen Daniels won't have to spend much time during visit getting to know Gary Kubiak. Or TE coach Brian Pariani or OC Rick Dennison

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 1h

LB Steven Johnson gets nice $100,000 sign bonus, plus $660K salary; $25K if he makes 53-man. Can earn another $150K in playtime incentives.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Not a piece we could afford to lose. Glad this got done.

[CoachChaz]

Well...depending on how it's structured, there's the majority of the money that Manning gave back

[DenBronx]

Whatever.

[silkamilkamonico]

Great move for #Broncos to wrap up Virgil Green. Seriously underrated receiver. I'll say 30-40 catches this year as TE2 in Kubiak's offense

TE2? Meh..... Should be our TE1. Dude is legit.

[VonDoom]

TE2? Meh..... Should be our TE1. Dude is legit.

It may work out that way, but he hasn't proven that yet as a pass catcher. Should have more opportunities this year.

[DenBronx]

Great move for #Broncos to wrap up Virgil Green. Seriously underrated receiver. I'll say 30-40 catches this year as TE2 in Kubiak's offense

TE2? Meh..... Should be our TE1. Dude is legit.


Lol! I don't even want to go there.


This is a joke. Now were looking at 32 year old Owen Daniels. If Green becomes the #1 it will be by default, not because he's a weapon. All I see from him is that he can block.

[GEM]

This one does make me happy. I think he will blossom into a great receiver in this system. A well rounded TE. Nice!

[GEM]

Lol! I don't even want to go there.


This is a joke. Now were looking at 32 year old Owen Daniels. If Green becomes the #1 it will be by default, not because he's a weapon. All I see from him is that he can block.

2 TE's for the price of 1 JT. I'll take it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi retweeted
Denver Broncos @Broncos · 12m

The #Broncos and two-time Pro Bowl TE @owendaniels have agreed to terms on a three-year deal.

[Rick]

2 TE's for the price of 1 JT. I'll take it.

I athletic TE who is one of the best blocking TEs and a well rounded vet, for the price of JT.

Hope Manning is paying attention, they don't care that you want to air it out every play...we are RUNNING the ball.

[Timmy!]

2 TE's for the price of 1 JT. I'll take it.

Several million cheaper actually.

[GEM]

Several million cheaper actually.

Even better!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 2m

Green said 2 years ago, he asked then-TE coach Clancy Barone to put together a tape of Owen Daniels to study his route-running.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 4m

Green said he watched video of Kubiak's offenses to learn about TE's role. "At the end of the day for me, it's tough, hard-nosed football."

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 6m

Virgil Green: "It's a real pleasure to be back, I'm happy." Said he talked w/ Joel Dreessen about Kubiak.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 6m

Elway: Green "has really, really earned" his three-year contract.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 7m

Elway: "We really think Virgil is going to flourish b/c of his strengths as a blocker, but also to be more involved in the passing game."

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 7m

Elway: "We're really thrilled that Virgil (Green) is going to be back."

[GEM]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 2m

Green said 2 years ago, he asked then-TE coach Clancy Barone to put together a tape of Owen Daniels to study his route-running.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 4m

Green said he watched video of Kubiak's offenses to learn about TE's role. "At the end of the day for me, it's tough, hard-nosed football."

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 6m

Virgil Green: "It's a real pleasure to be back, I'm happy." Said he talked w/ Joel Dreessen about Kubiak.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 6m

Elway: Green "has really, really earned" his three-year contract.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 7m

Elway: "We really think Virgil is going to flourish b/c of his strengths as a blocker, but also to be more involved in the passing game."

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 7m

Elway: "We're really thrilled that Virgil (Green) is going to be back."

Take that JT...like he gives a shit, him and daddy are countin dolla dolla bills y'all.

[pnbronco]

ALSO

LB Steven Johnson to return to Broncos

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/LB-Steven-Johnson-to-return-to-Broncos/da83e661-80ca-42e8-b881-7b67c4f8ab3e

I came to post yeah...but reading this....I's super happy....YEAH!!!!!!!

Thanks for the updates Von and Carol.....happy dance....:elefant:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 7m

Green: "I don't too much like fullback, but (if) it's something I've got to do, I don't mind it."

[silkamilkamonico]

Who has the better season statistically in 2015? Virgil Green or Julius Thomas?

[DenBronx]

Who has the better season statistically in 2015? Virgil Green or Julius Thomas?


Thomas allllllll day. What are you smoking Silk?

[silkamilkamonico]

Thomas allllllll day. What are you smoking Silk?

If someone tells me that Jacksonville will finish the season next year with a TE finishing with 50+ catches, 700+ yards, and 7+ TD's, in that offense, I just may have to stop smoking.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 1h

More Green: "I just go out and do. I feel like until I earn the right to say something, I just need to keep my mouth shut and do my job.’’

[Dapper Dan]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 1h

More Green: "I just go out and do. I feel like until I earn the right to say something, I just need to keep my mouth shut and do my job.’’

Daaaaaaaaayum.

[Lancane]

If someone tells me that Jacksonville will finish the season next year with a TE finishing with 50+ catches, 700+ yards, and 7+ TD's, in that offense, I just may have to stop smoking.

No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville, probably the best move for Bortles' development. Virgil Green will have a solid year, but he's nowhere near as physically talented or gifted as Julius Thomas.

[SR]

No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville, probably the best move for Bortles' development. Virgil Green will have a solid year, but he's nowhere near as physically talented or gifted as Julius Thomas.

He doesn't need to be. JT is a matchup problem but his success was a direct result of Peyton Manning.

[dogfish]

Thomas allllllll day. What are you smoking Silk?

well, this year JT had 43 catches for 489 yards-- if he doesn't set the bar much higher than that, i don't see why green can't be in that neighborhood in an offense that throws to the TE a lot. . . and with PFM as his QB, while JT has bortles. . . now granted, there's no way VG is hitting 12 TDs. . . then again, neither is thomas in jacksonville. . . in a vacuum (or on paper) you'd obviously take JT, but the games don't happen in a vacuum. . . would be an interesting question to come back to. . . but take a look at decker's stats from 2013 to 2014, and then make the same comparison for emmanuel sanders. . . i won't be surprised if JT misses pey pey a lot more than 18 misses him. . .



No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville

he's gotta stay on the field first-- never has consistently before. . . there's no question he's a great fit for their offense, but he can't make plays from the training room. . .

[Fire Bronc]

No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville, probably the best move for Bortles' development. Virgil Green will have a solid year, but he's nowhere near as physical4ly talented or gifted as Julius Thomas.

Analysis

Strengths
Green has great speed for a tight end. Explodes off the line and out of his breaks to gain separation. Has excellent hands. Plucks and snatches away from his frame and secures the football without losing speed. Can get up the seam and make the over-the-shoulder grab. Flashes potential as a second-level blocker. Outstanding intangibles.

This is the combine strengths analysis on Green when he came out. He also ran a 4.64 40, and had a 42.5" vertical. The biggest knock on him coming out of college was his weakness as a blocker. He is and always has been very athletic, and he has dedicated himself to becoming a good blocking tight end since coming into the league, unlike Thomas, which tells me that Thomas is just lazy and has no heart. Green is a much better fit for a Kubiak system then Thomas, and I think he is poised for a breakout year. If I had to choose between Green and Thomas for a Kubiak coached team, I would choose Green in a heartbeat.

[Ziggy]

No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville, probably the best move for Bortles' development. Virgil Green will have a solid year, but he's nowhere near as physically talented or gifted as Julius Thomas.

Julius Thomas combine results:
40 Yard Dash- 4.68
20 Yard Dash- 2.74
10 Yard Dash- 1.64
Bench Press Reps- 16
Vertical Jump- 35 1/2"
Broad Jump- 9'3"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.31
3 Cone Drill- 6.96

Virgil Green Combine Results:
40 Yard Dash- 4.64
20 Yard Dash- 2.72
10 Yard Dash- 1.62
Bench Press Reps- 23
Vertical Jump- 42 1/2
Broad Jump- 10'10"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.4
3 Cone Drill- 6.90

Virgil is every bit as physically talented and gifted as JT. Those combine results were coming off of microfracture surgery as well. Is he as gifted catching the ball? No. In Kubiak's offense, his blocking is critically important. I can't wait to see the return of the running game to Denver.

[MOtorboat]

Combine numbers? Entering their third season when one is clearly the better player? I guess whatever makes you feel better about the downgrade at the position.

[CrazyHorse]

Combine numbers? Entering their third season when one is clearly the better player? I guess whatever makes you feel better about the downgrade at the position.

Green might be as physically gifted as Thomas but he lacks the ball skills.

[GEM]

We didn't use him as a receiving TE, we used him as a blocking TE to make up for JT's deficiencies at the position. Coaching had a lot to do with that too. Is he the pass catcher JT is right now? No. Could he be when utitilized correctly, who knows. He wasn't known as a blocking TE when he came into the league, he earned that because it's what the team he plays for needed at the time. That's a hell of a lot more valuable than a guy who only catches balls because that's all he wants to do.

[Rick]

Green doesn't have to be as good of a receiver as JT.

He just needs to be good enough of a receiver to create balance while he is out there.

Remember, this is not last years offense, Manning won't be throwing 50 times in a game.

That said, I don't think it is out of the realm of reason to think Green can turn into a 50 catch TE. People focus too much on what a player has done or hasn't done and just assume he can't put up numbers, despite the fact that the player was simply doing what was asked of him. He wasn't asked to be a receiver as they were using JT for that, he was asked to block.

Sly is in the same category. He wasn't very good according to people because they never noticed him. Well, did you notice the LBers? When asked to be a space eater and not a penetrator, a role that Sly was put in last year, it is the guys behind you that are free to run to the ball carrier that get noticed.

[VonDoom]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 31s31 seconds ago

#Broncos' Virgil Green loves moving linemen "against their will." Any questions on why Denver wanted him back

[VonDoom]

Green doesn't have to be as good of a receiver as JT.

He just needs to be good enough of a receiver to create balance while he is out there.

Remember, this is not last years offense, Manning won't be throwing 50 times in a game.

That said, I don't think it is out of the realm of reason to think Green can turn into a 50 catch TE. People focus too much on what a player has done or hasn't done and just assume he can't put up numbers, despite the fact that the player was simply doing what was asked of him. He wasn't asked to be a receiver as they were using JT for that, he was asked to block.

Sly is in the same category. He wasn't very good according to people because they never noticed him. Well, did you notice the LBers? When asked to be a space eater and not a penetrator, a role that Sly was put in last year, it is the guys behind you that are free to run to the ball carrier that get noticed.

Good post. People have to remember that this is an entirely new coaching staff, and they will use the players that they think fit their scheme. Is Sly the answer at NT? I have no idea, but I assume that Philips knows more than I do. Similarly, we weren't paying JT $9 million a year no matter how good he was. If we start designing some plays with Green in mind, I don't see why he couldn't at least be a pass catching threat. If he turns into more than that, and continues his great blocking, we will have a steal at $2.8 million a year.

[CoachChaz]

My prediction...

Assuming he is healthy...Owen Daniels will have more receptions and TD's than both JT and Virgil.

[Lancane]

Julius Thomas combine results:
40 Yard Dash- 4.68
20 Yard Dash- 2.74
10 Yard Dash- 1.64
Bench Press Reps- 16
Vertical Jump- 35 1/2"
Broad Jump- 9'3"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.31
3 Cone Drill- 6.96

Virgil Green Combine Results:
40 Yard Dash- 4.64
20 Yard Dash- 2.72
10 Yard Dash- 1.62
Bench Press Reps- 23
Vertical Jump- 42 1/2
Broad Jump- 10'10"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.4
3 Cone Drill- 6.90

Virgil is every bit as physically talented and gifted as JT. Those combine results were coming off of microfracture surgery as well. Is he as gifted catching the ball? No. In Kubiak's offense, his blocking is critically important. I can't wait to see the return of the running game to Denver.

Oakland used that same said formula and train of thought for years in regards to the draft, where did that get them? Look I am not upset over Thomas leaving and Green staying, with the regime change it makes sense because Green is a better fit, but let's not use B.S. stats to prop up Green, if Green was so physically gifted and talented (given his time in the system) why when Thomas went down was it not him in the lineup instead of Tamme?

[NightTerror218]

Julius Thomas combine results:
40 Yard Dash- 4.68
20 Yard Dash- 2.74
10 Yard Dash- 1.64
Bench Press Reps- 16
Vertical Jump- 35 1/2"
Broad Jump- 9'3"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.31
3 Cone Drill- 6.96

Virgil Green Combine Results:
40 Yard Dash- 4.64
20 Yard Dash- 2.72
10 Yard Dash- 1.62
Bench Press Reps- 23
Vertical Jump- 42 1/2
Broad Jump- 10'10"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.4
3 Cone Drill- 6.90

Virgil is every bit as physically talented and gifted as JT. Those combine results were coming off of microfracture surgery as well. Is he as gifted catching the ball? No. In Kubiak's offense, his blocking is critically important. I can't wait to see the return of the running game to Denver.

JT is bigger and better hands. His size for his athletics is the point.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

JT is bigger and better hands. His size for his athletics is the point.

I think Green is just as gifted athletically, but JT is longer with a bigger catching radius. He's not necessary bigger. Just my two cents...

I also wonder if Virgil has lost a little explosiveness because he's 15-20 pounds heavier than he was at the combine.

[Dapper Dan]

It will be interesting to see Green get the ball a little more. He was only targeted 6 times, but caught every pass.

[GEM]

Oakland used that same said formula and train of thought for years in regards to the draft, where did that get them? Look I am not upset over Thomas leaving and Green staying, with the regime change it makes sense because Green is a better fit, but let's not use B.S. stats to prop up Green, if Green was so physically gifted and talented (given his time in the system) why when Thomas went down was it not him in the lineup instead of Tamme?

Because they needed him to block to make up the deficiencies on the line. I think the answer you're looking for is multi-layered not a simple answer.

[Rick]

They will give Virgil every opportunity to shine as a receiver this year. If he fails to stand out we will still have the consoluation prize that he is one of the best blocking TEs in the league.

[Lancane]

Because they needed him to block to make up the deficiencies on the line. I think the answer you're looking for is multi-layered not a simple answer.

I did say he was a better fit GEM, I'm just not allowing myself to be delusional that he is more athletically gifted. How many athletes have we seen with solid combine numbers be completely worthless? Thousands? I do believe Green fits Kubiak's system more, but he's no Thomas, Gronkowski, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Gates, Davis, Graham, Keller or Gresham, he might not even be a Witten, but he could well be a Daniels v.2.0. or he'd have done been in the mix - saying that he was used primarily for blocking is a disservice to the Broncos because he saw the practice field and caught passes and yet the Broncos used him in an entirely different manner, even though Julius struggled to stay healthy and that tells me enough to not go Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs rather to just shut up and enjoy the generic version.

:beer:

[CoachChaz]

I did say he was a better fit GEM, I'm just not allowing myself to be delusional that he is more athletically gifted. How many athletes have we seen with solid combine numbers be completely worthless? Thousands? I do believe Green fits Kubiak's system more, but he's no Thomas, Gronkowski, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Gates, Davis, Graham, Keller or Gresham, he might not even be a Witten, but he could well be a Daniels v.2.0. or he'd have done been in the mix - saying that he was used primarily for blocking is a disservice to the Broncos because he saw the practice field and caught passes and yet the Broncos used him in an entirely different manner, even though Julius struggled to stay healthy and that tells me enough to not go Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs rather to just shut up and enjoy the generic version.

:beer:

Agreed...and all the reasons why Daniels is going to be the primary TE...at least for now

[LTC Pain]

I like that Green burns on the inside. His humility and work ethic will always drive him. I'd take Green over JT any day of the week.

From a MHR story on Green today: "I am a big physical guy. When you move somebody against their will and they're stronger than you and you know that, but they still can't do anything about it, I get huge gratification out of that," Green said about blocking. "I go home, I watch that on film and tell myself that's what is acceptable from here on out. Anytime you get beat, it's not acceptable. I really feed off that physicality. You see me smiling talking about it because I really like to hit.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/3/11/8190769/the-skys-the-limit-for-virgil-green/in/7930326

[NightTerror218]

I think Green is just as gifted athletically, but JT is longer with a bigger catching radius. He's not necessary bigger. Just my two cents...

I also wonder if Virgil has lost a little explosiveness because he's 15-20 pounds heavier than he was at the combine.
Wow they are close in size.
Green 6-5 255 33 inch arm, 9.25 hands
Thomas 6-5 245 33 in arm, 10.25 hands

Guess it comes to how they create space and run routes and all that for why thomas is such an offensive weapon.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

They will give Virgil every opportunity to shine as a receiver this year. If he fails to stand out we will still have the consoluation prize that he is one of the best blocking TEs in the league.

And, the following is also a possibility - from Green's presser yesterday:

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 20h

Green: "I don't too much like fullback, but (if) it's something I've got to do, I don't mind it."

[GEM]

And, the following is also a possibility - from Green's presser yesterday:

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 20h

Green: "I don't too much like fullback, but (if) it's something I've got to do, I don't mind it."

And if they asked that of JT....oh sorry, my ankle is bothering me again... :aetsch:

[LawDog]

Oakland used that same said formula and train of thought for years in regards to the draft, where did that get them? Look I am not upset over Thomas leaving and Green staying, with the regime change it makes sense because Green is a better fit, but let's not use B.S. stats to prop up Green, if Green was so physically gifted and talented (given his time in the system) why when Thomas went down was it not him in the lineup instead of Tamme?

Because Tamme and Green played greatly different roles last year? Because Green started the last 6 games of the season, the first three of which Julius was out? Because the three games that Green was out (weeks 9-11) the team went 1-2, while they went 5-1 during the final stretch when Green started every game? Because Green was essential to the running game as a blocker, not as a route-running pass catcher?

Not sure what point you were trying to make. The combine stats have nothing to do with who played when and how last season.

[SR]

Because Tamme and Green played greatly different roles last year? Because Green started the last 6 games of the season, the first three of which Julius was out? Because the three games that Green was out (weeks 9-11) the team went 1-2, while they went 5-1 during the final stretch when Green started every game? Because Green was essential to the running game as a blocker, not as a route-running pass catcher? Not sure what point you were trying to make. The combine stats have nothing to do with who played when and how last season.

Green also missed a few games and by the time he came back there was such a heavy emphasis on running the ball his blocking skills became priceless.

[GEM]

I did say he was a better fit GEM, I'm just not allowing myself to be delusional that he is more athletically gifted. How many athletes have we seen with solid combine numbers be completely worthless? Thousands? I do believe Green fits Kubiak's system more, but he's no Thomas, Gronkowski, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Gates, Davis, Graham, Keller or Gresham, he might not even be a Witten, but he could well be a Daniels v.2.0. or he'd have done been in the mix - saying that he was used primarily for blocking is a disservice to the Broncos because he saw the practice field and caught passes and yet the Broncos used him in an entirely different manner, even though Julius struggled to stay healthy and that tells me enough to not go Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs rather to just shut up and enjoy the generic version.

:beer:

I don't think anyone is delusional to believe that Green is the pass catcher Thomas is....but he wasn't asked to do that. He was asked to block because our o-line sucked balls a lot of the time. Why is a better football player? Because he has heart and he does what is asked of him and he does it to the best of his ability. He has what no amount of money will ever get Thomas, heart. His heart is in the game. And that is why I can say goodbye to Thomas' play catching, because if he's not feeling it, he's not on the field. Hate to also say that Fox didn't always put his best players in the best positions. He did what he felt was necessary, but Green not getting a chance to show receiving skills wasn't all on Green. They saw that he could fill a void and they used him as such. He wasn't known as a blocking TE coming out of college. But his heart in the game told him that's what he needed to do to survive, so he learned it, he practiced it and he loved it. You wouldn't get that much out of Thomas because he doesn't have that same passion.

[DenBronx]

So the Broncos lose pro bowl TE that had the most TDs over the last two year and now everyone wants to jump the Virgil Green bandwagon.

That's comedy.

[Dapper Dan]

So the Broncos lose pro bowl TE that had the most TDs over the last two year and now everyone wants to jump the Virgil Green bandwagon.

That's comedy.

I could always bitch and moan about something I can't change. Would that be better?

[SR]

So the Broncos lose pro bowl TE that had the most TDs over the last two year and now everyone wants to jump the Virgil Green bandwagon. That's comedy.

He didn't have the most TDs the last two years...

[DenBronx]

So the Broncos lose pro bowl TE that had the most TDs over the last two year and now everyone wants to jump the Virgil Green bandwagon. That's comedy.

He didn't have the most TDs the last two years...

Recieving TDs I thought he did.


Ok so top 5. Still doesnt make him less of an impact.

[Fire Bronc]

So the Broncos lose pro bowl TE that had the most TDs over the last two year and now everyone wants to jump the Virgil Green bandwagon.

That's comedy.

Are you refering to the same guy who couldn't block his way out of a wet paper bag? especially when we are going to be utilizing a run heavy offense. I haven't heard anyone bash what JT did, he is a talented (though oft injured) receiving tight end, but he doesn't fit the new system as well as Virgil Green does, he also costs a heck of alot more, and Green still has a ton of upside as a receiving tight end. Smart managerial move by Elway and Kubiak in my opinion.

[DenBronx]

The only thing I hear fans whining about is block. But the other blocking TEs cant catch though. Whether you agree or not this is going to hurt our passing game and average points per game. This is also going to put ALL of the pressure on DT. Better pray him or Sanders dont get hirt bc we will be screwed!

Find something else besides the word block. JT produced on the field and that's what matters. He is a PASS CATCHING TE people. Not all TEs have the same job in todays football league.

[Timmy!]

:lol:

[SR]

The only thing I hear fans whining about is block. But the other blocking TEs cant catch though. Whether you agree or not this is going to hurt our passing game and average points per game. This is also going to put ALL of the pressure on DT. Better pray him or Sanders dont get hirt bc we will be screwed! Find something else besides the word block. JT produced on the field and that's what matters. He is a PASS CATCHING TE people. Not all TEs have the same job in todays football league.

Gronk steamrolls on the LOS and we all know about his catching.

Fact is after week nine JT didn't have a TD and the Broncos still went 12-4 and had a first round bye.

[MOtorboat]

The only thing I hear fans whining about is block. But the other blocking TEs cant catch though. Whether you agree or not this is going to hurt our passing game and average points per game. This is also going to put ALL of the pressure on DT. Better pray him or Sanders dont get hirt bc we will be screwed!

Find something else besides the word block. JT produced on the field and that's what matters. He is a PASS CATCHING TE people. Not all TEs have the same job in todays football league.

Touchdowns are overrated.

[Simple Jaded]

No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville, probably the best move for Bortles' development. Virgil Green will have a solid year, but he's nowhere near as physically talented or gifted as Julius Thomas.

By what measure? Green had him beat at the Combine in every category, iirc.

[MOtorboat]

By what measure? Green had him beat at the Combine in every category, iirc.

The last two years?

[Simple Jaded]

The last two years?

Last two years also showed how Green was superior to JT as a football player. But hey, when you need an usher for your wedding JT would be 1st Team All-Pro.

Green is just as athletic, that's the point, there's a lot of players in the NFL that are as athletic.

[DenBronx]

The comparisons of a mediocre TE to pro bowl TE are hilarious. A real LOLicopter if you will. Its one big LOLicaust.

[MOtorboat]

Last two years also showed how Green was superior to JT as a football player. But hey, when you need an usher for your wedding JT would be 1st Team All-Pro.

Green is just as athletic, that's the point, there's a lot of players in the NFL that are as athletic.

And there are all of three who had more touchdowns the last two years.

I wonder if Seahawks fans are bitching about Jimmy Graham's blocking?

[Simple Jaded]

The comparisons of a mediocre TE to pro bowl TE are hilarious. A real LOLicopter if you will. Its one big LOLicaust.

I'll do Ya one better, I bet we can find college TEs as athletic. How's that for LOLing? Not sure why you think JT cornered the market on athleticism.

[Simple Jaded]

And there are all of three who had more touchdowns the last two years.

I wonder if Seahawks fans are bitching about Jimmy Graham's blocking?

Well as bad as Graham is their fans can always say "at least he's not Julius Thomas".

Broncos will miss his redzone contributions, zero argument from me, great talent.

[MOtorboat]

Well as bad as Graham is their fans can always say "at least he's not Julius Thomas".

Broncos will miss his redzone contributions, zero argument from me, great talent.

Jimmy Graham isn't any good.

Yup. I've pretty much heard it all about tight ends now. Bronx is right. This shit is hilarious.

[Simple Jaded]

Jimmy Graham isn't any good.

Yup. I've pretty much heard it all about tight ends now. Bronx is right. This shit is hilarious.

You're the one brought him up, I guess I was supposed to ignore the fact that he isn't much of a blocker either. Seattle and Jax can do what they want but Denver is soft enough as it is, JT's not worth what he got. Not to Denver, anyway.

All he had to do was put in the effort and we wouldn't be having this discussion, this time last I was where you and DenB are, but he's above the dirty work. I love him as a receiver, who doesn't?

[MOtorboat]

You're the one brought him up, I guess I was supposed to ignore the fact that he isn't much of a blocker either. Seattle and Jax can do what they want but Denver is soft enough as it is, JT's not worth what he got. Not to Denver, anyway.

All he had to do was put in the effort and we wouldn't be having this discussion, this time last I was where you and DenB are, but he's above the dirty work. I love him as a receiver, who doesn't?

Points win games. Denver didn't upgrade by letting him go. No one outside of Denver gives a **** about Graham's blocking. Or Thomases'.

[DenBronx]

Which is why Seattle loved the Graham trade. They know he's going to make that offense even more lethal. Then pair that with the leagues best defense.

Pass catching TEs are a rare find. Blocking TEs are a dime a dozen. You can not teach the athleticism and the knack to get open like these guys. The reason why you can't cover the Gronks, Grahams, Julius and Gonzalez of the NFL is because these guys know how to run routes, how to get open, can out jump dbs and have good hands. JT may not have been the best BLOCKING TE but he did out physical DBs to get the ball, especially in the redzone. That's not being soft, he has his own skillset.

[DenBronx]

I blame the OL for our blocking issues.

With JT gone and Welker having concussion concerns, Manning isnt going to have these security blankets with a bum OL.

If Green can block then more power to him. But what does he do that Tamme doesnt do? I find nothing special about him and just don't see how this is a win for us. Not saying it's a loss either....it's just that I think we could have found a blocking TE late in FA period or drafted one. Spend the $$$ on something else...

[GEM]

:confused: So now we should have let Green go too?

[SR]

:confused: So now we should have let Green go too?

He doesn't know what he's talking about. His contradictions are Joel-esque.

[LawDog]

Which is why Seattle loved the Graham trade. They know he's going to make that offense even more lethal. Then pair that with the leagues best defense.

Pass catching TEs are a rare find. Blocking TEs are a dime a dozen. You can not teach the athleticism and the knack to get open like these guys. The reason why you can't cover the Gronks, Grahams, Julius and Gonzalez of the NFL is because these guys know how to run routes, how to get open, can out jump dbs and have good hands. JT may not have been the best BLOCKING TE but he did out physical DBs to get the ball, especially in the redzone. That's not being soft, he has his own skillset.

Except that Peyton Manning taught JT how to run routes and get open in Peyton's system. Remains to be seen if any of that teaching carries over to mediocre-ville.

[jlarsiii]

:confused: So now we should have let Green go too?

He is not. What is wrong is that you are saying we signed green to replace jt. We didn't. We simply resigned green. Great for our run game, and not so much for a redzone threat. I am glad we kept green cause he is a good blocking te and nothing more. I would have been happier if we kept jt too.

Instead, we replaced him with a 32 year old player who not only scored fewer touchdowns the last two years but also graded out as a much worse blocker. Let me repeat that for all those so interested in this fact: Much Worse Blocker.

I will never get why people on this board will celebrate letting a rare pass catching TE who produced TDs go without even trying to keep him, and then celebrate signing a run blocking TE who could be easily replaced. New Orleans just got a starter at center AND a first round pick for Graham, you know, because pass catching TEs are so common and all. Please note that Graham probably couldn't block his way out of a wet paper bag. Think we could get the same deal for Green? **** no...

[Simple Jaded]

Points win games. Denver didn't upgrade by letting him go. No one outside of Denver gives a **** about Graham's blocking. Or Thomases'.

Apparently the Broncos FO gives a ****, probably because they're sick of being soft. And JT was soft to the point of arrogance; as if to say "I'm here to score points, not block". Clough and Hastings are basically saying the FO thinks he's a pvssy.

Btw, Denver still managed to score points and win games without JTs points.

[MOtorboat]

Apparently the Broncos FO gives a ****, probably because they're sick of being soft. And JT was soft to the point of arrogance; as if to say "I'm here to score points, not block". Clough and Hastings are basically saying the FO thinks he's a pvssy.

Btw, Denver still managed to score points and win games without JTs points.

5 less per game, actually, when they abandoned the passing game.

And they scored 13 at home in the playoffs with that crap offense.

[Valar Morghulis]

5 less per game, actually, when they abandoned the passing game.

And they scored 13 at home in the playoffs with that crap offense.

Yeah but gase was milquetoast remember

[MOtorboat]

Yeah but gase was milquetoast remember

Well, the team clearly got better when it started scoring less points.

Said no one. Ever.

[dogfish]

And they scored 13 at home in the playoffs with that crap offense.

maybe they could've put up a few more points if JT had been able to fight through that ankle sprain and contribute something. . .



:heh:

[MOtorboat]

maybe they could've put up a few more points if JT had been able to fight through that ankle sprain and contribute something. . .



:heh:

But that run game...That's the ticket.

[DenBronx]

:confused: So now we should have let Green go too?

He is not. What is wrong is that you are saying we signed green to replace jt. We didn't. We simply resigned green. Great for our run game, and not so much for a redzone threat. I am glad we kept green cause he is a good blocking te and nothing more. I would have been happier if we kept jt too.

Instead, we replaced him with a 32 year old player who not only scored fewer touchdowns the last two years but also graded out as a much worse blocker. Let me repeat that for all those so interested in this fact: Much Worse Blocker.

I will never get why people on this board will celebrate letting a rare pass catching TE who produced TDs go without even trying to keep him, and then celebrate signing a run blocking TE who could be easily replaced. New Orleans just got a starter at center AND a first round pick for Graham, you know, because pass catching TEs are so common and all. Please note that Graham probably couldn't block his way out of a wet paper bag. Think we could get the same deal for Green? **** no...



Everything this guy said.

[GEM]

He is not. What is wrong is that you are saying we signed green to replace jt. We didn't. We simply resigned green. Great for our run game, and not so much for a redzone threat. I am glad we kept green cause he is a good blocking te and nothing more. I would have been happier if we kept jt too.

Instead, we replaced him with a 32 year old player who not only scored fewer touchdowns the last two years but also graded out as a much worse blocker. Let me repeat that for all those so interested in this fact: Much Worse Blocker.

I will never get why people on this board will celebrate letting a rare pass catching TE who produced TDs go without even trying to keep him, and then celebrate signing a run blocking TE who could be easily replaced. New Orleans just got a starter at center AND a first round pick for Graham, you know, because pass catching TEs are so common and all. Please note that Graham probably couldn't block his way out of a wet paper bag. Think we could get the same deal for Green? **** no...

They tried to keep him at the value they thought he was worth, he valued himself higher.

[turftoad]

They tried to keep him at the value they thought he was worth, he valued himself higher.

So did someone else!

[Ziggy]

So the Broncos lose pro bowl TE that had the most TDs over the last two year and now everyone wants to jump the Virgil Green bandwagon.

That's comedy.

No one is jumping on the Virgil Green bandwagon and no one is saying that Green is better than JT at catching balls. We've been fans of Virgil and his playing style for years. He's hard nosed, tough, son of a gun who happens to be an elite blocker. We're just not crying in our beers over losing a prima donna one dimensional tight end that would have cost us 9.2 million/year to keep. I'll take the 3rd round comp pick and use that 9.2 million to improve the team in other areas, same as Elway.

[Rick]

They tried to keep him at the value they thought he was worth, he valued himself higher.

It doesn't matter what Elway values him at, he needs to learn that the proper way to do business is to put a poll up on BroncosForums to see what the real value of said player is. If BroncosForums members say it is 10 mill then he needs to offer 10 mill. Plain and simple.

[GEM]

So did someone else!

Good for Jax. We didn't. Just because the price is there, doesn't mean he was of that monetary value here. It all depends on what the powers that be value. For a team that has crazy money to burn, he's worth, to a team who is cash strapped, he wasn't.

[GEM]

It doesn't matter what Elway values him at, he needs to learn that the proper way to do business is to put a poll up on BroncosForums to see what the real value of said player is. If BroncosForums members say it is 10 mill then he needs to offer 10 mill. Plain and simple.

Yea, I'm not exactly sure why some posters are getting up in arms, those of us who didn't value him at $9mil+ aren't the ones that let him walk.

[GEM]

Also not quite sure why Virgil Green needs to be denigrated because of Julius Thomas' departure. It's not his fault and it's posters own choice to compare the 2 when they are 2 completely different style players. Virgil Green isn't a horrible player, in the long run, and in this offense, I think he'll prove to be far more valuable. But keep hating on Green if that makes you feel better.


See what I did there...

[LawDog]

Also not quite sure why Virgil Green needs to be denigrated because of Julius Thomas' departure. It's not his fault and it's posters own choice to compare the 2 when they are 2 completely different style players. Virgil Green isn't a horrible player, in the long run, and in this offense, I think he'll prove to be far more valuable. But keep hating on Green if that makes you feel better.


See what I did there...

When defense attorneys want to continue a case because the client hasn't paid yet, we joke that the request is pursuant to People v. Green...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 13m

Virgil Green contract details: http://dpo.st/19hwrmX via @mikeklis

[Simple Jaded]

Well, the team clearly got better when it started scoring less points.

Said no one. Ever.
I never said that, I said they scored points and won games. Apparently Denver doesn't wanna throw the ball 50 times a game like some faggoty college offense anymore, so let's not attribute all that lack of scoring to losing the softest TE in football. Cowherd said the oddsmakers in Vegas say Gronkowski makes about 1-point difference in their estimation, most QB's don't make 5-points difference.

The Broncos will miss JT, nobody said they won't.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Also not quite sure why Virgil Green needs to be denigrated because of Julius Thomas' departure. It's not his fault and it's posters own choice to compare the 2 when they are 2 completely different style players. Virgil Green isn't a horrible player, in the long run, and in this offense, I think he'll prove to be far more valuable. But keep hating on Green if that makes you feel better.


See what I did there...

Get it girl

[Bosco]

I think Virgil Green is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people this year. Someone posted the combine results back on page 2, and as noted, Green outperformed Thomas in every measure (significantly, in a couple) except for the 20 yard shuttle. He is clearly an exceptional athlete in his own right with more than enough potential to reach the levels of production we received from Thomas.

I think too many people here have preconceived notions about Green from his time here. It's interesting to note that if you go back and read Green's scouting reports, most of them state he is a poor blocker. He developed into an elite blocker here, but that's not what he was drafted to be. I personally expect him to be our modern day Daniel Graham.

[Jsteve01]

I think Virgil Green is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people this year. Someone posted the combine results back on page 2, and as noted, Green outperformed Thomas in every measure (significantly, in a couple) except for the 20 yard shuttle. He is clearly an exceptional athlete in his own right with more than enough potential to reach the levels of production we received from Thomas.

I think too many people here have preconceived notions about Green from his time here. It's interesting to note that if you go back and read Green's scouting reports, most of them state he is a poor blocker. He developed into an elite blocker here, but that's not what he was drafted to be. I personally expect him to be our modern day Daniel Graham. Great post. He humbled himself and made himself a great blocker. His ceiling is still pretty high as a receiver_playmaker. Go back and watch his highlights from Nevada

[GEM]

Get it girl

Just not quite sure when this became Virgil Green sucks, Julius Thomas is great. They chose to keep the one whose value matched their value and shipped off another player whose value didn't match. Virgil isn't replacing Julius, no one ever said he was. Separate players, no good denigrating one to boost the other.

[dogfish]

Just not quite sure when this became Virgil Green sucks, Julius Thomas is great. They chose to keep the one whose value matched their value and shipped off another player whose value didn't match. Virgil isn't replacing Julius, no one ever said he was. Separate players, no good denigrating one to boost the other.

but 12 touchdowns, ZOMG!!

[MOtorboat]

but 12 touchdowns, ZOMG!!

Touchdowns = Not important.

Blocking. That's where it's at.

[Jsteve01]

If someone tells me that Jacksonville will finish the season next year with a TE finishing with 50+ catches, 700+ yards, and 7+ TD's, in that offense, I just may have to stop smoking.

No need to stop smoking, but Thomas is going to light it up in Jacksonville, probably the best move for Bortles' development. Virgil Green will have a solid year, but he's nowhere near as physically talented or gifted as Julius Thomas. that's just not an accurate assesment of his physical abilities. He was better than Thomas in every category but one shuttle at the combine. He is an athlete in the league of say a Benjamin Watson. Had he not had scary medical on his knee predraft he probably goes at about the same slot as Thomas.

[GEM]

Touchdowns = Not important.

Blocking. That's where it's at.

How about both? Guess that's asking too much.

[MOtorboat]

that's just not an accurate assesment of his physical abilities. He was better than Thomas in every category but one shuttle at the combine. He is an athlete in the league of say a Benjamin Watson. Had he not had scary medical on his knee predraft he probably goes at about the same slot as Thomas.

How many fifth-year players are we talking about combine results with?

I can think of one.


How about both? Guess that's asking too much.

Denver doesn't have both, because they threw away one.

[GEM]

Virgil has never scored a TD? Wow, I'm pretty sure he scored one in Dec. He can only make the plays the coaches call...We didn't keep Virgil at the expense of Julius. We weren't in the sweepstakes for Julius because the front office must have seen some of the same issues some of us saw.

Going a little bipolar...one minute this team can do no wrong and speak not of any wrong that actually did happen. 13-3, 12-4...record speaks for itself. Julius takes the money and runs and all the sudden he is the difference between a good franchise and omg!!11!!! they're so stupid.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Thomas turned down an $8 million-a-year offer last offseason from the Broncos and got an extra mil from the Jaguars.

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_27714583/paige-broncos-rely-many-players-instead-few

It's not like the Broncos did not try to keep Thomas. I think Virgil will be just fine.

[MOtorboat]

Virgil has never scored a TD? Wow, I'm pretty sure he scored one in Dec. He can only make the plays the coaches call...We didn't keep Virgil at the expense of Julius. We weren't in the sweepstakes for Julius because the front office must have seen some of the same issues some of us saw.

Going a little bipolar...one minute this team can do no wrong and speak not of any wrong that actually did happen. 13-3, 12-4...record speaks for itself. Julius takes the money and runs and all the sudden he is the difference between a good franchise and omg!!11!!! they're so stupid.

I didn't say any of that. But because Green scored one touchdown (that's his only one ever by the way) it doesn't automatically make him able to do what Thomas did. The sheer inference that that's probable is absurd. Could it happen, sure. But it sure the hell isn't probable.

I do question why they are abandoning coaches, players, schemes, you name it after doing something only seven teams have ever done. I'd say that's a fairly logical question.

Why make your quarterback take a paycut if you're not going to resign anyone and then not sign anyone? What is the point of that?

These are valid questions. I'm surprised so few are asking them.

Julius Thomas is not the difference between a good franchise and a bad franchise. That's a stupid statement and I didn't say it.

But losing Knowshon Moreno, Eric Decker, Julius Thomas, Orlando Franklin, Wesley Woodyard, Rahim Moore and others is baffling to me. Elway said he was going to build through the draft and try to sustain long term success. Why is he not signing the guys he drafted? That's a valid question.

[GEM]

I didn't say any of that. But because Green scored one touchdown (that's his only one ever by the way) it doesn't automatically make him able to do what Thomas did. The sheer inference that that's probable is absurd. Could it happen, sure. But it sure the hell isn't probable.

I do question why they are abandoning coaches, players, schemes, you name it after doing something only seven teams have ever done. I'd say that's a fairly logical question.

Why make your quarterback take a paycut if you're not going to resign anyone and then not sign anyone? What is the point of that?

These are valid questions. I'm surprised so few are asking them.

Julius Thomas is not the difference between a good franchise and a bad franchise. That's a stupid statement and I didn't say it.

But losing Knowshon Moreno, Eric Decker, Julius Thomas, Orlando Franklin, Wesley Woodyard, Rahim Moore and others is baffling to me. Elway said he was going to build through the draft and try to sustain long term success. Why is he not signing the guys he drafted? That's a valid question.

But no one has said he is supposed to replace him. That's what most of us have been saying. He isn't going to, but its not right to downplay Green in order to prop Thomas up. Everything asked of Green, he did! Everything asked of Thomas, he didn't do! That's all that's been pointed out.

None of us know the vision, hell all of us have questions...but your own words...let their record speak for them and what they're doing. That outlook didn't work then, doesn't work now. Just wondering when the about face happened. Julius seems like the one right choice. I question the franklin choice more with the crappy players behind him on depth chart.

I wonder more why we aren't signing DT long term with all the players being let go and Manning's pay cut, but I suspect he will probably be signed long term once a price range is set after free agency period. I think Elway is letting market set his price.

And building through the draft hasn't really happened under Elway, he has a few questionable picks and the hits he's let go. Unfortunately I think we are seeing some of the downside of having g an inexperienced GM who put too much faith in some of the wrong people.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It seems to me we wouldn't have had the money to tag DT if Manning didn't take a paycut.

[dogfish]

MOseph, is that a short round avatard?

[Jsteve01]

that's just not an accurate assesment of his physical abilities. He was better than Thomas in every category but one shuttle at the combine. He is an athlete in the league of say a Benjamin Watson. Had he not had scary medical on his knee predraft he probably goes at about the same slot as Thomas.

How many fifth-year players are we talking about combine results with?

I can think of one.


How about both? Guess that's asking too much.

Denver doesn't have both, because they threw away one. i was talking to Jaded mr grumpy pants. There was an assertion that hes not the athlete that Julius is and i just came back with some numbers to contradict said statement. I agree with you about not resigning his own players.

[MOtorboat]

MOseph, is that a short round avatard?

Yes it is. And this off season is not funny, Mr. Jones.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

When we win the SB you'll be able to say, "you cheat Dr. Jones! "

[MOtorboat]

But no one has said he is supposed to replace him. That's what most of us have been saying. He isn't going to, but its not right to downplay Green in order to prop Thomas up. Everything asked of Green, he did! Everything asked of Thomas, he didn't do! That's all that's been pointed out.

None of us know the vision, hell all of us have questions...but your own words...let their record speak for them and what they're doing. That outlook didn't work then, doesn't work now. Just wondering when the about face happened. Julius seems like the one right choice. I question the franklin choice more with the crappy players behind him on depth chart.

I wonder more why we aren't signing DT long term with all the players being let go and Manning's pay cut, but I suspect he will probably be signed long term once a price range is set after free agency period. I think Elway is letting market set his price.

And building through the draft hasn't really happened under Elway, he has a few questionable picks and the hits he's let go. Unfortunately I think we are seeing some of the downside of having g an inexperienced GM who put too much faith in some of the wrong people.

Green now HAS to replace Thomas. If not Green then it has to be Daniels, who has more injury questions than Thomas.

You're right. None of us know the vision, but that's exactly why I'm frustrated and asking questions because I don't understand what's happening. What I heard before and what I see happening aren't jiving. I don't have a problem with Elway's draft picks. I rather like most of them. I don't like not resigning any of them. Green is the only one in now four of seasons.

[MOtorboat]

When we win the SB you'll be able to say, "you cheat Dr. Jones! "

I'd prefer Denver not go the route of New England.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Lol, that's not what I meant.

[DenBronx]

Touchdowns = Not important.

Blocking. That's where it's at.

How about both? Guess that's asking too much.


That's very rare GEM. The good blocking TEs would be lucky to get 5-7 TDs.

12 is on another planet... that's much harder to find.

[MOtorboat]

That's very rare GEM. The good blocking TEs would be lucky to get 5-7 TDs.

12 is on another planet... that's much harder to find.

16 years. Manning has had 1. Only tight end to go for 12 in a season and the only one even close to 24 in 2. You don't just plug someone in to replace that.

[GEM]

We can't plug him. You guys are talking like the expectation is replacing Thomas with Green. You guys are the only ones making that statement. He will not replace Thomas. He will be an elite blocker who will probably be asked to catch more balls in this offense.He won't sniff 12 TD's, but nobody is expecting him to either. Unless of course you guys are, to which I say how foolish of an expectation.

[MOtorboat]

We can't plug him. You guys are talking like the expectation is replacing Thomas with Green. You guys are the only ones making that statement. He will not replace Thomas. He will be an elite blocker who will probably be asked to catch more balls in this offense.He won't sniff 12 TD's, but nobody is expecting him to either. Unless of course you guys are, to which I say how foolish of an expectation.

We are?


I think Virgil Green is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people this year. Someone posted the combine results back on page 2, and as noted, Green outperformed Thomas in every measure (significantly, in a couple) except for the 20 yard shuttle. He is clearly an exceptional athlete in his own right with more than enough potential to reach the levels of production we received from Thomas.

I think too many people here have preconceived notions about Green from his time here. It's interesting to note that if you go back and read Green's scouting reports, most of them state he is a poor blocker. He developed into an elite blocker here, but that's not what he was drafted to be. I personally expect him to be our modern day Daniel Graham.

That's not the only post. And putting his combine numbers out there saying they compare suggest he's every bit the receiver Thomas is. All sorts of people are saying he can replace Thomas in receiving prowess.

[GEM]

Who has said he will replace Thomas's receiving stats? I've seen it said that he has more receiving skills than many give him credit for, but haven't seen anyone say he'll match or beat Thomas's numbers.

[MOtorboat]

Who has said he will replace Thomas's receiving stats? I've seen it said that he has more receiving skills than many give him credit for, but haven't seen anyone say he'll match or beat Thomas's numbers.

It's implied all over this thread. I supplied one example, and I'm done.

[DenBronx]

That's very rare GEM. The good blocking TEs would be lucky to get 5-7 TDs.

12 is on another planet... that's much harder to find.

16 years. Manning has had 1. Only tight end to go for 12 in a season and the only one even close to 24 in 2. You don't just plug someone in to replace that.


Exactly! And that's my point, Manning set records with him. Our offense was lethal.

Hopefully Tamme comes back bc I actually think he will be a better RZ option then Green or Owen.

[DenBronx]

I think Virgil Green is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people this year. Someone posted the combine results back on page 2, and as noted, Green outperformed Thomas in every measure (significantly, in a couple) except for the 20 yard shuttle. He is clearly an exceptional athlete in his own right with more than enough potential to reach the levels of production we received from Thomas.

I think too many people here have preconceived notions about Green from his time here. It's interesting to note that if you go back and read Green's scouting reports, most of them state he is a poor blocker. He developed into an elite blocker here, but that's not what he was drafted to be. I personally expect him to be our modern day Daniel Graham.



The NFL would look a hellllll of alot different if teams picked players based on combine stats. Tebow killed the combine! Dudes on the Today Show or some shit like that now. Lol!

I think Terrell Davis ran like a 4.6? Measurables only tell you so much. When players actually PROVE and PRODUCE on the field then that can't be argued with.

So far, Green looks average at best. But hey...he blocks so that makes him a top 10 TE right?

[dogfish]

Yes it is. And this off season is not funny, Mr. Jones.

it may not be, but you certainly are, you hilarious little midget. . . much props for shorty. . .





I didn't say any of that. But because Green scored one touchdown (that's his only one ever by the way) it doesn't automatically make him able to do what Thomas did. The sheer inference that that's probable is absurd. Could it happen, sure. But it sure the hell isn't probable.

I do question why they are abandoning coaches, players, schemes, you name it after doing something only seven teams have ever done. I'd say that's a fairly logical question.

Why make your quarterback take a paycut if you're not going to resign anyone and then not sign anyone? What is the point of that?

These are valid questions. I'm surprised so few are asking them.

But losing Knowshon Moreno, Eric Decker, Julius Thomas, Orlando Franklin, Wesley Woodyard, Rahim Moore and others is baffling to me. Elway said he was going to build through the draft and try to sustain long term success. Why is he not signing the guys he drafted? That's a valid question.

i wish we'd done more/better in FA also, no lie. . . but. . . truth is, we really don't have a lot of cash/cap space left. . . granted, i don't know why they didn't free up some more by cutting dead weight like caldwell and coquitt. . .

the reasons why we changed coaches have been discussed and reported pretty thoroughly, though. . .

as for draft picks. . . well, you can't have it both ways. . .

can't complain about "abandoning players" and "not signing anyone" when those moves are freeing up PT for draft picks likes schofield/paradis, sly williams, virgil green, and possibly kayvon webster. . . can't keep all of 'em withe the cap, but we did just re-sign harris. . . signed trevathan to an extension last year. . . retained marshall via tender. . . you can bet they'll retain von miller. . .

should JFE have cut clady to keep big O just to prove a point? let demaryious go so he could overpay for julius, just because JT was a draft pick of the current regime?

you know as well as anyone that our time frame accelerated once we signed manning. . . surrounding him with "ready to win now" vets was the right thing to do, even if it cost us a younger player or two. . .


also, knowshon and decker weren't elway picks. . . he replaced decker for less money with a better/better fit vet (sanders) AND a potentially more talented rookie (latimer). . . was woodyard? either way, danny T and marshall ARE elway picks, and they're still here. . . rahim has always dragged baltimore around with him, but even if he hadn't, he was just a guy-- stewart can be a guy for half what rahim got. . . green and JT were taken the same year-- we had to pick one, it was probably an easy choice to take the healthier, cheaper, more versatile guy given our cap situation. . .

our backfield says hi. . . why didn't we keep knowshon? too old, too expensive, too hurt, and we didn't have space because elway pickups ball, hillman, anderson and thompson didn't leave room for him. . .


also, bradley roby is a stud. . .


next year, we're potentially looking at a front seven of;

de - d wolfe
nt - sly williams
de - malik jackson
olb - von miller
ilb - trevathan
ilb - b marshall
olb - d ware

six out of seven are elway draft picks. . .

secondary;

cb - talib
cb - harris
nb - roby
ss - ward
fs - stewart / webster

three out of five are elway picks. . . unless webster or a draft pick happens to overtake stewart. . . but even if not, 7/11 or 8/12 starters on D looks like building through the draft to me. . .

not saying they can't do better, though. . .

[TXBRONC]

Green now HAS to replace Thomas. If not Green then it has to be Daniels, who has more injury questions than Thomas.

You're right. None of us know the vision, but that's exactly why I'm frustrated and asking questions because I don't understand what's happening. What I heard before and what I see happening aren't jiving. I don't have a problem with Elway's draft picks. I rather like most of them. I don't like not resigning any of them. Green is the only one in now four of seasons.

If you're looking for Green's production to replace J. Thomas' production exactly then you'll be sorely disappointed. You know as well anyone the offense is going be different for most of the last three seasons. Even if Denver had re-signed J. Thomas it is highly unlikely he will be quite as prolific in Kubiak's offense because Denver will run the ball more.

[MOtorboat]

If you're looking for Green's production to replace J. Thomas' production exactly then you'll be sorely disappointed. You know as well anyone the offense is going be different for most of the last three seasons. Even if Denver had re-signed J. Thomas it is highly unlikely he will be quite as prolific in Kubiak's offense because Denver will run the ball more.

Kubiak/Baltimore ran the ball 44 percent of the time. Denver ran it 42 percent. The difference is very negligible.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Thomas turned down an $8 million-a-year offer last offseason from the Broncos and got an extra mil from the Jaguars.

The above was in the Woody Paige article I posted yesterday. And then there is the following from Jeff Legwold:


Tight end Julius Thomas and guard Orlando Franklin were fairly public in their surprise they did not receiver an offer from the Broncos as free agency approached – Thomas also said he had sold his house in Denver in September. This, too, has been the Broncos' way. When the team knows it’s not going to be in the negotiating neighborhood the player wants to be in, it takes a pass. There’s no low-ball, here’s-what-we’ve-got offer, the kind that also raise the ire of a player. There is simply a thanks and a wave. The Broncos were never, at any point, willing to put Thomas at the top of the pay-scale at the position. The team felt Franklin was going to get far more somewhere else and he did. It was the same sort of departure Zane Beadles and Decker had a year ago.

Thomas was offered 8 mil in August, which he turned down, and he sold his house in Denver in September.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/12432/a-second-look-at-some-of-broncos-first-free-agency-moves

[SR]

I feel like the same things are being said about JT over and over and over and over.

[GEM]

I feel like the same things are being said about JT over and over and over and over.

Yep, not quite sure how many times it can be said that the only ones saying Green is replacing Thomas are the ones angry about Thomas leaving. He left, we didn't trade him. We made an offer, he left it on the table. How is that the Broncos fault? Now it's come out that we put $8Mil on the table and he took $9Mil, then sold his house here last year...He planned on moving on awhile ago, but somehow that's the Broncos fault. :laugh:

[DenBronx]

When you're chasing a Lombardi and have a limited window with Manning then I could give two shits about 9 mill. What's more important, money that isn't yours or bragging rights that your team is the best in the world?

Post Manning that looks like chump change anyway. Plus I'd actually like a respectable offense for Brock.

Or are we going to have Brock AND Green? Looks very average doesn't it...

[Fire Bronc]

Thomas had 43 receptions for 489 yards last year with twelve touchdowns. Nine of those twelve touchdowns came in the first five games of the season, then he virtually dissapeared down the stretch. Those aren't exactly stellar stats. Denver has gotten no where with their pass happy offense the past few years. Was it fun to watch? sure, but there is a legitimate reason for the change. Virgil Green is a better all around tight end, and a better fit for the new scheme. The emphasis will be on running the ball, controlling the clock and protecting Manning. This isn't about replacing Julius Thomas, this is about fitting the players to the scheme, and Thomas doesn't fit, especially to the tune of 9 million.

[MOtorboat]

Thomas had 43 receptions for 489 yards last year with twelve touchdowns. Nine of those twelve touchdowns came in the first five games of the season, then he virtually dissapeared down the stretch. Those aren't exactly stellar stats. Denver has gotten no where with their pass happy offense the past few years. Was it fun to watch? sure, but there is a legitimate reason for the change. Virgil Green is a better all around tight end, and a better fit for the new scheme. The emphasis will be on running the ball, controlling the clock and protecting Manning. This isn't about replacing Julius Thomas, this is about fitting the players to the scheme, and Thomas doesn't fit, especially to the tune of 9 million.

So, three division titles and an AFC Championship is nothing.

Well, at least I know what "nothing" is now. I hope Kubiak does something, because if he does anything by this logic it's going to be a championship.

[TXBRONC]

Kubiak/Baltimore ran the ball 44 percent of the time. Denver ran it 42 percent. The difference is very negligible.

No that is not negligible and he still can't run block.

[SR]

No that is not negligible and he still can't run block.

Two percent over the course of a season is pretty negligible

[Simple Jaded]

When you're chasing a Lombardi and have a limited window with Manning then I could give two shits about 9 mill. What's more important, money that isn't yours or bragging rights that your team is the best in the world?

Post Manning that looks like chump change anyway. Plus I'd actually like a respectable offense for Brock.

Or are we going to have Brock AND Green? Looks very average doesn't it...

So now the Broncos offense wont even be respectable for the next QB without JT?

[Simple Jaded]

The above was in the Woody Paige article I posted yesterday. And then there is the following from Jeff Legwold:



Thomas was offered 8 mil in August, which he turned down, and he sold his house in Denver in September.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/12432/a-second-look-at-some-of-broncos-first-free-agency-moves
$8 MM/per is too much as it is, and the reasons are obvious. The Saints were so happy about their one-dimensional TE that they traded him a year later, they know it's a shit deal and dumped it in less than a calendar year.

And I think it's something we can all agree on that Graham is far better than JT, at EVERYTHING.

[MOtorboat]

Two percent over the course of a season is pretty negligible

Less than 20 plays.

[Fire Bronc]

So, three division titles and an AFC Championship is nothing.

Well, at least I know what "nothing" is now. I hope Kubiak does something, because if he does anything by this logic it's going to be a championship.





It is not about the three division titles and AFC championship, it is about the two one and dones in the playoffs, and the no show by the offense in the Super Bowl. Expectations for this team wasn't division titles, this team drastically underachieved. Based on the coaching overhaul and scheme change, I am going to guess that Elway felt the same way about things.

[MOtorboat]

It is not about the three division titles and AFC championship, it is about the two one and dones in the playoffs, and the no show by the offense in the Super Bowl. Expectations for this team wasn't division titles, this team drastically underachieved. Based on the coaching overhaul and scheme change, I am going to guess that Elway felt the same way about things.

Like I said. I know what nothing is now. I hope four your sake, and everyone else's, Kubiak achieves something.

[Jsteve01]

It is not about the three division titles and AFC championship, it is about the two one and dones in the playoffs, and the no show by the offense in the Super Bowl. Expectations for this team wasn't division titles, this team drastically underachieved. Based on the coaching overhaul and scheme change, I am going to guess that Elway felt the same way about things.

Like I said. I know what nothing is now. I hope four your sake, and everyone else's, Kubiak achieves something. were you a fan of George Karl?his fast paced record breaking offenses were sure swell to watch during the regular season. But that one dimensional style of ball didnt work in the playoffs. Ditto with our finesse offense. When the games got cold and it slowed down we couldnt assert our will. I remember being a mediocre team with Fassel's high powered offense and then virtually over night becoming dominant because of the commitment to a more physical and efficient offense. You are acting like Jt was the best skill player on the offense. When in fact id rate him around 5th after manning,Sanders, the real thomas and anderson. Was he a matchup nightmare? Sure when he was actually healthy and that my friend was rare

[MOtorboat]

were you a fan of George Karl?his fast paced record breaking offenses were sure swell to watch during the regular season. But that one dimensional style of ball didnt work in the playoffs. Ditto with our finesse offense. When the games got cold and it slowed down we couldnt assert our will. I remember being a mediocre team with Fassel's high powered offense and then virtually over night becoming dominant because of the commitment to a more physical and efficient offense. You are acting like Jt was the best skill player on the offense. When in fact id rate him around 5th after manning,Sanders, the real thomas and anderson. Was he a matchup nightmare? Sure when he was actually healthy and that my friend was rare

Top 12 percent > Top 52 percent.

These endless Karl comparisons are ******* stupid. Stop it.

[SR]

It is not about the three division titles and AFC championship, it is about the two one and dones in the playoffs, and the no show by the offense in the Super Bowl. Expectations for this team wasn't division titles, this team drastically underachieved. Based on the coaching overhaul and scheme change, I am going to guess that Elway felt the same way about things.

The Avs won nine straight division titles and two Stanley Cups. Just for some perspective.

[TXBRONC]

Two percent over the course of a season is pretty negligible

Two or three extra running plays per game isn't insignificant.

[SR]

Two or three extra running plays per game isn't insignificant.

It's just over one running play per game average in a 16 game season if it's the difference of 20 plays over a season...

[Fire Bronc]

The Avs won nine straight division titles and two Stanley Cups. Just for some perspective.





I am a diehard Avs fan, and I watched them all. The Avs were under achievers as well with the talent they fielded on some of those teams. Success is based on expectations. If you are expected to go 8-8 and you go 11-5 and win a division title, you are successful and over achieving. If you field a team with Superbowl or bust aspirations and bust in the first round, twice, then you have underachieved and need to change your methods. The method has been changed, now we wait and see if it brings about the results everyone is hoping for.

[Ziggy]

The Av's forum is that way=======>>>>>>>>

[Simple Jaded]

The Av's forum is that way=======>>>>>>>>

<<<<<<<=======That way?

[DenBronx]

This way...to the basement.

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[Hawgdriver]

This way...to the basement.

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Why do you want us in your basement, DenBronx?

:ballchain: :whip: :spider: :afraid:

[Jsteve01]

Dont start. FIRE was a very good poster over on the freak. Very good dude. A

[BroncoJoe]

A.... what?

[Jsteve01]

A.... what? a mobile phone. If i remember correctly Fire is also Holy Diver's brother. Anyone heard how his health is?

[Fire Bronc]

a mobile phone. If i remember correctly Fire is also Holy Diver's brother. Anyone heard how his health is?

He is struggling some still, but getting by. Thanks for the concern Jsteve.

[turftoad]

He is struggling some still, but getting by. Thanks for the concern Jsteve.

Tell him we said hey!!

[Fire Bronc]

Tell him we said hey!!

Will do.

[dogfish]

Why do you want us in your basement, DenBronx?

:ballchain: :whip: :spider: :afraid:

it puts the lotion on it's skin, or. . .


YOU know ther rest. . . .

[BroncoJoe]

He is struggling some still, but getting by. Thanks for the concern Jsteve.

Wait - you're HD's brother? Tell him hello!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/JoeArthur/hd-1.jpg