Peyton Manning meets with John Elway; no decision announced on coming back

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning met with general manager John Elway at the team's Dove Valley headquarters Thursday afternoon.

Manning left Thursday evening, but was not ready to make an announcement on whether he will play in 2015.

Broncos president Joe Ellis boarded owner Pat Bowlen's plane Thursday morning and flew to New Orleans to pick up Manning, who had been spending time in his hometown, visiting family and getting in a few workouts to help measure his physical condition.

The meetings Thursday were an encouraging sign Manning will return as he said Jan. 30 following the Bart Starr Award banquet that he wanted to meet personally with Elway and Ellis before making his decision. Manning, though, has always been the type who takes the necessary time to process all information before making any type of significant decision.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27517116/peyton-manning-meets-john-elway-no-decision-announced

[Bugs Baloney]

I'm expecting retirement, or restructure, but leaning towards retirement.

[Buff]

I'm expecting retirement, or restructure, but leaning towards retirement.

I expect neither of those things.

[MileHighCrew]

I'm not sure what to expect at this point.

[Buff]

I'm not sure what to expect at this point.

The timing seemed a little weird to me until I realized that the combine starts next week, and I think the plan was always to meet before the combine. Absent some kind of press conference announcement today, I'm thinking he's planning on coming back.

[MileHighCrew]

The timing seemed a little weird to me until I realized that the combine starts next week, and I think the plan was always to meet before the combine. Absent some kind of press conference announcement today, I'm thinking he's planning on coming back.

I always thought he was coming back and I never thought we'd wait this long to hear it. The longer it takes the more unsure I become about it.

[Krugan]

As much as I have enjoyed watching the last 3 years, my personal desire is to see them move on without Manning.

New coaching staff, new feel, and a young core that needs to stay here, for the most part, pushes me to the idea that change might as well be complete, now.

It will be tough to watch for awhile, but we have a solid core and hopefully a coaching staff that wont be shopping for new jobs each year.

Im not saying Manning cant play, he was having a great year last year until he got hurt, so there will be a drop off to whomever runs the show, but I just feel its time for this team to invest in other directions.

Just an opinion, nothing more.

[MileHighCrew]

As much as I have enjoyed watching the last 3 years, my personal desire is to see them move on without Manning.

New coaching staff, new feel, and a young core that needs to stay here, for the most part, pushes me to the idea that change might as well be complete, now.

It will be tough to watch for awhile, but we have a solid core and hopefully a coaching staff that wont be shopping for new jobs each year.

Im not saying Manning cant play, he was having a great year last year until he got hurt, so there will be a drop off to whomever runs the show, but I just feel its time for this team to invest in other directions.

Just an opinion, nothing more.

I am on the other side. I get what you are saying, but I don't know if Oz can be that guy and I don't want to go back to the Orton / Tebow years. I love the winning and feeling like they can win it all and I think Manning still can. I'd love to see what he can do under this new direction and I don't see anything lost for one more year with Manning.

[BroncoWave]

As much as I have enjoyed watching the last 3 years, my personal desire is to see them move on without Manning.

New coaching staff, new feel, and a young core that needs to stay here, for the most part, pushes me to the idea that change might as well be complete, now.

It will be tough to watch for awhile, but we have a solid core and hopefully a coaching staff that wont be shopping for new jobs each year.

Im not saying Manning cant play, he was having a great year last year until he got hurt, so there will be a drop off to whomever runs the show, but I just feel its time for this team to invest in other directions.

Just an opinion, nothing more.

OMG why do you hate Manning so much?!?! You must hate winning!

(/sarcasm)

[Buff]

OMG why do you hate Manning so much?!?! You must hate winning!

(/sarcasm)

Stand down, MO will be in to berate him shortly.

[VonDoom]

The timing seemed a little weird to me until I realized that the combine starts next week, and I think the plan was always to meet before the combine. Absent some kind of press conference announcement today, I'm thinking he's planning on coming back.

This. It was reported that they would meet before the combine and they did. Nothing has changed. Guys like Rapoport are trying to drum up clicks by suggesting that this means he isn't coming back.

[vettesplus]

I am just wondering after this meeting , if JE knows now what Manning is going to do?

[Davii]

I am just wondering after this meeting , if JE knows now what Manning is going to do?

I think he knows which direction Peyton is currently leaning.

[RebelRocker]

I think if they absolutely, 100% knew Peyton's decision, they would have set up a press conference and/or announced it already. I think yesterday was just a preliminary conversation with a final decision coming within the next week.

[MOtorboat]

I'll let my homeboy Dave and his buddy Nietzsche respond:


"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." Friedrich Nietzsche

[BroncoWave]

I'll let my homeboy Dave and his buddy Nietzsche respond:

Yep, I'd say this describes your current views on Manning pretty accurately!

[Poet]

It is ironic that Nietz was suspicious of groups to the point that neighbors interacting with one another was something he disapproved of.

#weonthismessageboard

#MOMONEY

#midgetwiththefidget

#philosopher

[slim]

I'll let my homeboy Dave and his buddy Nietzsche respond:

The truth is he can't play anymore.

[MOtorboat]

I was talking to some Chiefs fans yesterday. They want the Brock Osweiler era to start too.

[Timmy!]

MO has some of you guys totally whipped....like a bunch of circus seals.

[BroncoWave]

I was talking to some Chiefs fans yesterday. They want the Brock Osweiler era to start too.

Beating the Chiefs is not really how I'd measure our success as a franchise.

[NightTerror218]

I am on the other side. I get what you are saying, but I don't know if Oz can be that guy and I don't want to go back to the Orton / Tebow years. I love the winning and feeling like they can win it all and I think Manning still can. I'd love to see what he can do under this new direction and I don't see anything lost for one more year with Manning.

I feel better about Oz then starting all over again from scratch that we would next year and we lose mannings cap that could be used to deep some of the young talent.

If Manning comes back oz is probably gone. Some team will thing highly of how he was brought along and here we are again looking for another Orton and drafting at the end of 1st or 2nd for a QB to hopefully be lucky. I would rather kick the wheels on Oz to see what he has and then see if we need to look at drafting on again or if we hit with him. I am just thinking long term, I think mannings 19mill may hurt us on the draft picks we have hit on becoming FA that are good but not great.

[NightTrainLayne]

Beating the Chiefs is not really how I'd measure our success as a franchise.

I can remember many a season that a win against the Chiefs (splitting the series) was about all I had to hang my hat on!

[Poet]

I taught Mo how to to style on'em.

[Buff]

MO has some of you guys totally whipped....like a bunch of circus seals.

I am obsessed with his posting like his is with Joel's.

[Davii]

Beating the Chiefs is not really how I'd measure our success as a franchise.

I'm confused. You high five a post saying he can't play anymore and in another thread you say we're a better team with him. Which is it?

[Valar Morghulis]

PFM for the win.

Good work in this thread Moseph

[Northman]

Beating the Chiefs is not really how I'd measure our success as a franchise.

:lol:

No Kidding. The Chiefs are terrible no matter who the Denver QB is.

[MOtorboat]

Some of you guys have some really short memories. The Broncos were 10-8 against the Chiefs in the previous 10 years before Manning arrived.

[BroncoWave]

Some of you guys have some really short memories. The Broncos were 10-8 against the Chiefs in the previous 10 years before Manning arrived.

I don't really see what the opinions of Chiefs fans you know has to do with anything. What makes them more qualified to say what the Broncos should do than Broncos fans?

[MOtorboat]

I don't really see what the opinions of Chiefs fans you know has to do with anything. What makes them more qualified to say what the Broncos should do than Broncos fans?

Nothing, and I didn't claim that they did. They would much rather face Osweiler than Manning. There's a very good reason for that too. That's the point. Not my fault if you don't want to see that, but that's the league-wide perception of the situation. It just so happens that the fans I know are Chiefs fans, probably the product of where I live.

[BroncoWave]

Nothing, and I didn't claim that they did. They would much rather face Osweiler than Manning. There's a very good reason for that too. That's the point. Not my fault if you don't want to see that, but that's the league-wide perception of the situation. It just so happens that the fans I know are Chiefs fans, probably the product of where I live.

Yep, I'd also be scared of facing Manning in the reugular season if I were an opposing fan.

[MOtorboat]

Yep, I'd also be scared of facing Manning in the reugular season if I were an opposing fan.

I think I get it now. People would rather not win in the regular season than lose in the playoffs. I mean, I don't get it, but I understand it.

[BroncoWave]

I think I get it now. People would rather not win in the regular season than lose in the playoffs. I mean, I don't get it, but I understand it.

No, you don't get it. I'd much rather make the playoffs and lose than not make it. But I don't want to pay a QB 20 million bucks to do that every season. If he does that restructure that is being rumored and we can afford to bolster the o-line, then I would love to have him back. But he is just not worth paying 20 million to anymore IMO. If he's set on that number, I'd rather go ahead and see what we have in Oz.

[MOtorboat]

No, you don't get it. I'd much rather make the playoffs and lose than not make it. But I don't want to pay a QB 20 million bucks to do that every season. If he does that restructure that is being rumored and we can afford to bolster the o-line, then I would love to have him back. But he is just not worth paying 20 million to anymore IMO. If he's set on that number, I'd rather go ahead and see what we have in Oz.

So it's not worth paying a quarterback the going rate? If Oz is good enough to do the same thing (as is apparently being suggested), we're going to have to pay him $20 million too.

[BroncoWave]

So it's not worth paying a quarterback the going rate? If Oz is good enough to do the same thing (as is apparently being suggested), we're going to have to pay him $20 million too.

I would much rather pay a guy in his mid-20s the going rate than a guy who is 39 and has had two serious injuries in the last 4 years.

[MOtorboat]

I would much rather pay a guy in his mid-20s the going rate than a guy who is 39 and has had two serious injuries in the last 4 years.

Regardless of if the guy in his mid-20s can deliver division championships and Super Bowl berths?

Keep in mind, we only have one year to see if Osweiler is as good as Manning before having to pay him. That's a real thin margin for error. I'd hate for Denver to be wrong.

[BroncoWave]

Regardless of if the guy in his mid-20s can deliver division championships and Super Bowl berths?

Keep in mind, we only have one year to see if Osweiler is as good as Manning before having to pay him. That's a real thin margin for error. I'd hate for Denver to be wrong.

And if Manning plays this year, we have to just totally guess on Oz. At least with a year of play it would be a more educated decision.

[BroncoWave]

This year would really be a perfect scenario to see what we have in Oz. We have a new coaching staff coming in whose system fits him perfectly, we have the most stacked team (pro-bowl player wise) in the NFL, and we'd have an extra 20 million bucks to completely shore up the o-line for him. He would be as set up to succeed as a young QB could possibly be. If he managed to screw that up, we'd know we have a dud and could get a jump start on trying to find the right guy. And If he succeeds, then his progression is now a year ahead of schedule and we can keep up the well-oiled machine we have had with Elway.

[MOtorboat]

And if Manning plays this year, we have to just totally guess on Oz. At least with a year of play it would be a more educated decision.

I'll take another year of competing for the division title and a first round bye. Thanks.

[Northman]

I was talking to some Chiefs fans yesterday. They want the Brock Osweiler era to start too.

They should be careful for what they wish for.

[BroncoWave]

I'll take another year of competing for the division title and a first round bye. Thanks.

You are acting like this is a 100% guarantee if Manning comes back. What if he gets hurt again? What if his arm strength continues to regress to the point that he can't be effective? What if he just can't physically play 16-20 games anymore? Manning coming back doesn't guarantee another division title and first round bye. Father Time defeats everyone in the end, even the greatest. Who is to say this year won't be the one for him?

[Northman]

Nothing, and I didn't claim that they did. They would much rather face Osweiler than Manning. There's a very good reason for that too. That's the point. Not my fault if you don't want to see that, but that's the league-wide perception of the situation. It just so happens that the fans I know are Chiefs fans, probably the product of where I live.

Kind of a weak and jaded argument though MO. Thats like who would Denver fans rather face? Trent Green or Alex Smith? Of course the Chiefs would rather face a younger player with no gametime experience, what opposing team wouldnt? I would rather face Rivers backup than Rivers himself but that really isnt news as far as im concerned. Just common sense.

[MOtorboat]

You are acting like this is a 100% guarantee if Manning comes back. What if he gets hurt again? What if his arm strength continues to regress to the point that he can't be effective? What if he just can't physically play 16-20 games anymore? Manning coming back doesn't guarantee another division title and first round bye. Father Time defeats everyone in the end, even the greatest. Who is to say this year won't be the one for him?

I'll take my chances with the HOFer who's teams haven't missed a playoff berth since 2001.

Just my preference.

[MOtorboat]

Kind of a weak and jaded argument though MO. Thats like who would Denver fans rather face? Trent Green or Alex Smith? Of course the Chiefs would rather face a younger player with no gametime experience, what opposing team wouldnt? I would rather face Rivers backup than Rivers himself but that really isnt news as far as im concerned. Just common sense.

There's nothing weak about that argument at all. Would you rather go with the HOF quarterback or the first-year QB? I'd rather go with the HOF QB.

It ought to be painfully obvious as to why, but apparently not.

[Northman]

There's nothing weak about that argument at all. Would you rather go with the HOF quarterback or the first-year QB? I'd rather go with the HOF QB.

It ought to be painfully obvious as to why, but apparently not.

Sure, i think the general argument is if Manning is playing his best than you go with him. If Manning is playing like he did at the tail end of last year than is he really playing at a top level? I would venture no. It really has nothing to do with whether Oz can do the same things (at this moment in terms of wins) as it is about if you have a young QB and an old QB playing at the same level than you go with the cheaper guy. Now, i think Manning's injury played a huge part of his play last year but im not entirely sure on that as im not his doctor. But i think that is what people are talking about, you are at the stance that Manning will play at a high level while other people think that may not be the case. No one knows for sure how Manning will play if he comes back, but as we saw last year if that is any indication than that isnt going to cut it for a guy getting that kind of money.

[TXBRONC]

Sure, i think the general argument is if Manning is playing his best than you go with him. If Manning is playing like he did at the tail end of last year than is he really playing at a top level? I would venture no. It really has nothing to do with whether Oz can do the same things (at this moment in terms of wins) as it is about if you have a young QB and an old QB playing at the same level than you go with the cheaper guy. Now, i think Manning's injury played a huge part of his play last year but im not entirely sure on that as im not his doctor. But i think that is what people are talking about, you are at the stance that Manning will play at a high level while other people think that may not be the case. No one knows for sure how Manning will play if he comes back, but as we saw last year if that is any indication than that isnt going to cut it for a guy getting that kind of money.

As sharp as Manning's decline was I would be surprised if it was age more than the injury that caused it. But with that said, I'm concerned he won't be able to stay healthy.

[BroncoWave]

I'll take my chances with the HOFer who's teams haven't missed a playoff berth since 2001.

Just my preference.

Woo-hoo! Making the playoffs every year! Go Nuggets!

[BroncoWave]

There's nothing weak about that argument at all. Would you rather go with the HOF quarterback or the first-year QB? I'd rather go with the HOF QB.

It ought to be painfully obvious as to why, but apparently not.

Just because he is a HOF QB does not mean he is still that level of player. Brett Favre is a HOF guy too, but he fell of a cliff there at the end. Happens to everyone.

[MOtorboat]

Just because he is a HOF QB does not mean he is still that level of player. Brett Favre is a HOF guy too, but he fell of a cliff there at the end. Happens to everyone.

The Brett Favre who was a year older than Manning and played in an NFC Championship game?

[BroncoWave]

The Brett Favre who was a year older than Manning and played in an NFC Championship game?

Oh so every QB hits their wall at the exact same age. Gotcha.

[MOtorboat]

Woo-hoo! Making the playoffs every year! Go Nuggets!

You realize by making this argument you are then guaranteeing that you know Denver wins a Super Bowl without Manning, right?

[MOtorboat]

Oh so every QB hits their wall at the exact same age. Gotcha.

You're the one that chose to compare Manning to Favre.

[BroncoWave]

You realize by making this argument you are then guaranteeing that you know Denver wins a Super Bowl without Manning, right?

And how exactly did you come to this ridiculous conclusion? There is never any guarantee of ever winning another title. But I think we have seen enough of the Manning experiment to see that we probably aren't winning one that way. Time to try the next way. Maybe that one won't work either, but that doesn't mean you don't try it.

[BroncoWave]

You're the one that chose to compare Manning to Favre.

My point being that once Favre hit his wall, it was over FAST. Same could be true for Manning, even if at a slightly younger age.

[MOtorboat]

And how exactly did you come to this ridiculous conclusion? There is never any guarantee of ever winning another title. But I think we have seen enough of the Manning experiment to see that we probably aren't winning one that way. Time to try the next way. Maybe that one won't work either, but that doesn't mean you don't try it.

I take the highest percentage route to the playoffs. Which is with Manning. Just a personal preference.

[MOtorboat]

My point being that once Favre hit his wall, it was over FAST. Same could be true for Manning, even if at a slightly younger age.

Could being the key word there.

[chazoe60]

Some of you guys have some really short memories. The Broncos were 10-8 against the Chiefs in the previous 10 years before Manning arrived.

Why did we only play the Chiefs 18 times in 10 years?

[BroncoJoe]

Why did we only play the Chiefs 18 times in 10 years?

Good question, Chaz!

MO?

[MOtorboat]

Why did we only play the Chiefs 18 times in 10 years?


Good question, Chaz!

MO?

Because I have a degree in English not math.

[Davii]

And how exactly did you come to this ridiculous conclusion? There is never any guarantee of ever winning another title. But I think we have seen enough of the Manning experiment to see that we probably aren't winning one that way. Time to try the next way. Maybe that one won't work either, but that doesn't mean you don't try it.

You're absolutely right. Playoffs every year he's been here, the 1 or 2 seed every year he's been here, a Super Bowl berth 1/3 of the time, a Super Bowl loss where our coach was heard to say "we didn't think it'd be this loud in here", a playoff loss where our coach decided to kneel on the ball when we needed a FG to win because we were "shocked", and another where our entire team was unprepared and quit due to shitty coaching and coaches looking for another job.

Yeah, I see how Manning has been a failure. I'm quite certain John Elway knows more about football, the individual players on the team, the coaches that were and are on the team, and certainly the behind the scenes things we don't get to see (how injured someone is, how bad the coaches are at getting a team ready, why the players quit or didn't try, etc) than anyone here or all of us collectively. If John wants him back why the hell wouldn't anyone else? Makes no sense to me. Do we REALLY think we know more than John Elway when it comes to getting this team where we want it?

[BroncoWave]

Where did I say the Manning era was a failure? Far from it. It was a great three years. I just don't think he quite has what it takes at this point in his career, though, to get us over the top. That doesn't mean I think the last 3 years were a failure though. They were certainly fun to watch. I, personally, though, think it might be time to move on to the next guy.

And please, spare me the "Well Elway wants him, so who are we to disagree" argument. That's basically saying no one is allowed to have an opinion on roster moves if it doesn't jive with what Elway wants. I certainly see Elway's logic in wanting Manning back and I will not be mad at him at all if he brings him back. I just happen to have a slightly different opinion on the matter. That doesn't mean I think Elway is a fool to bring him back though. Unlike some on this thread (not talking about you here) I can see the merit of both sides of the argument and don't think either direction would be a horrible idea. I'm just in the move on to the next guy camp. That's all.

[Slick]

I hope they don't restructure Manning's contract. Stay and play or retire. I don't want his dead money once he's gone.

Amazing how his quads have healed and he's all of the sudden good to go. I wonder why there hasn't been an announcement yet?

[Lancane]

Slick, if he is returning I think the smart move is to restructure, most of his guaranteed money has already been paid the little bit of dead money that Denver could accrue is not near the amount they've been carrying from other players' contracts before now. Plus, Denver in 2016 is expected to have a lot more cap available then anytime in recent memory, so I do not see how there is a downside to a restructure, not in this case.

[Slick]

Slick, if he is returning I think the smart move is to restructure, most of his guaranteed money has already been paid the little bit of dead money that Denver could accrue is not near the amount they've been carrying from other players' contracts before now. Plus, Denver in 2016 is expected to have a lot more cap available then anytime in recent memory, so I do not see how there is a downside to a restructure, not in this case.

If they don't pay him now, they'll be paying him later.

[Simple Jaded]

The Manning Experiment became worth every single penny on March 20, 2012, the last three years has just been pure, delicious glutton free gravy, with a large side of **** yeah!

[Lancane]

If they don't pay him now, they'll be paying him later.

So you'd rather pay him all now and then find the team steadily depleted instead of spreading the fiscal impact and allowing Denver to retain a more complete roster?

[Simple Jaded]

How many FA studs does Denver have to sign to debunk the "Manning is killing the cap" myth?

[Lancane]

How many FA studs does Denver have to sign to debunk the "Manning is killing the cap" myth?

Denver wants to keep Julius Thomas actually according to a couple radio reports the Broncos are trying to solidify a long-term deal with him and plan to tag Demaryius Thomas, though they do expect to eventually get a long term deal done with him as well. They also want to retain Knighton, Montgomery, Green, Johnson, Brewer and Marshall off the top of my head. So that is going to be shy of the 30 million mark, closer to about 27 and doesn't include Moore or Franklin which no one knows about, Denver has only about 19 to 20 million to work with between Manning and tagging Thomas. They can trim about 8 million from the roster, but they'll also want to use some to add free agents and to keep the depth stocked.

[Slick]

So you'd rather pay him all now and then find the team steadily depleted instead of spreading the fiscal impact and allowing Denver to retain a more complete roster?

Yes. I don't think it would be wise to restructure. There's been talk about him taking a pay cut, but I doubt the NFLPA would like that. I don't think it's a good idea to put off paying the man. Plus, like Jaded said, Elway's signing plenty of talent. Denver's roster is not the reason they haven't won a title.

[Lancane]

How many FA studs does Denver have to sign to debunk the "Manning is killing the cap" myth?

It's not really a myth Jaded, all quarterbacks getting paid with the same range are hurting their respective franchises.

[Valar Morghulis]

How many FA studs does Denver have to sign to debunk the "Manning is killing the cap" myth?

Agreed - i am a Manning sycophant, but also someone who feels that he should re-structure, 10 mil this year, add the other ten mil next year against the cap and he can retire next feb after the game in santa clara, with all the cap space we have next year, that will allow us to re-sign Von and will have already locked this years FAs up to long term deals and not miss the ten mil too much.

That ten mil this year coupled with our 20 mil cap space this year will allow us to fortify the O-Line, franchise DT, re-sign Pot Roast and still have enough to make a small splash in FA.

Yes - i play Madden and watched draft day - which is what i base all my off season activity on

[Lancane]

Yes. I don't think it would be wise to restructure. There's been talk about him taking a pay cut, but I doubt the NFLPA would like that. I don't think it's a good idea to put off paying the man. Plus, like Jaded said, Elway's signing plenty of talent. Denver's roster is not the reason they haven't won a title.

It will be if he can not sign talent and Denver is hurting cap wise despite the sentimentality that they're not between Manning who is making 19 mil base but will also make a 2.5 mil bonus, the tag on D.T. and J.T. if they work out a long-term deal is going to be around 35 million for those three just this season, so we let Knighton, Moore and Franklin walk, then have to try and replace them while already having other holes? There comes a time that you can shoot yourself in the *** and not know it, this may be one of those. If he restructures they could clear another 8 million, that could easily keep Knighton and others mentioned earlier outside Thomas and Thomas, Franklin and Moore. Trim some fat and there is an additional 8 mil to grab a couple free agents and then walk into the draft in okay shape.

[Simple Jaded]

It's not really a myth Jaded, all quarterbacks getting paid with the same range are hurting their respective franchises.

Cmon, Denver has never come close to being over the cap at this point in the year, NE with their cap friendly Brady contract is currently $3 MM or so over the cap. Point is, if Denver wasn't paying a QB they'd be paying someone who puts them in their current situation. Like the Cheatriots with Revis.

Why isn't there so much concern over Ware's cap number? Does anyone think he'll be costing Denver the same way after Manning is gone? I know I do.

Btw, if I'm getting into this so-called dilemma it's for a Peyton Manning.

[Lancane]

Cmon, Denver has never come close to being over the cap at this point in the year, NE with their cap friendly Brady contract is currently $3 MM or so over the cap. Point is, if Denver wasn't paying a QB they'd be paying someone who puts them in their current situation. Like the Cheatriots with Revis.

Why isn't there so much concern over Ware's cap number? Does anyone think he'll be costing Denver the same way after Manning is gone? I know I do.

Btw, if I'm getting into this so-called dilemma it's for a Peyton Manning.

No one said we were close to going over the cap, but they're standing on a tightrope that could break.

Problem is Jaded that Dilemma could ruin the future of this team for one last possible hoorah? That is the dumbest thing a G.M. could possibly do, because eventually you have to move on from players, going on without regards to the future is how Shanahan screwed the Broncos and the fans for half a decade.

[Simple Jaded]

Agreed - i am a Manning sycophant, but also someone who feels that he should re-structure, 10 mil this year, add the other ten mil next year against the cap and he can retire next feb after the game in santa clara, with all the cap space we have next year, that will allow us to re-sign Von and will have already locked this years FAs up to long term deals and not miss the ten mil too much.

That ten mil this year coupled with our 20 mil cap space this year will allow us to fortify the O-Line, franchise DT, re-sign Pot Roast and still have enough to make a small splash in FA.

Yes - i play Madden and watched draft day - which is what i base all my off season activity on
Would love it if Manning restructures too, I think he should if he wants his last/best shot. But, folks have been worried about Manning's contract for 3 years yet the Broncos FO has still been able to field a very talented team.

In 3 years when Manning's no longer playing and his $5 MM of restructured dead money hurts the Broncos chances in FA that's when his contract will be hurting Denver. That doesn't appear to be a possibility at the moment. So, careful what we wish for.

[Slick]

It will be if he can not sign talent and Denver is hurting cap wise despite the sentimentality that they're not between Manning who is making 19 mil base but will also make a 2.5 mil bonus, the tag on D.T. and J.T. if they work out a long-term deal is going to be around 35 million for those three just this season, so we let Knighton, Moore and Franklin walk, then have to try and replace them while already having other holes? There comes a time that you can shoot yourself in the *** and not know it, this may be one of those. If he restructures they could clear another 8 million, that could easily keep Knighton and others mentioned earlier outside Thomas and Thomas, Franklin and Moore. Trim some fat and there is an additional 8 mil to grab a couple free agents and then walk into the draft in okay shape.

I don't have the energy or the will to continue this discussion with you. No offense.

[DenBronx]

Leave Ware alone. He's worth every cent and is going to shine in Wades Defense.

[Lancane]

I don't have the energy or the will to continue this discussion with you. No offense.

None taken Slick, you just happen to believe differently that's all. :beer:

[Simple Jaded]

No one said we were close to going over the cap, but they're standing on a tightrope that could break.

Problem is Jaded that Dilemma could ruin the future of this team for one last possible hoorah? That is the dumbest thing a G.M. could possibly do, because eventually you have to move on from players, going on without regards to the future is how Shanahan screwed the Broncos and the fans for half a decade.


Yes, one last hurrah, thats not stupid that's the NFL. Joels been crying wolf for 3 years and is waiting til they lose someone better than Decker to say I told you so, sooner or later they're going to lose that player but that's true if Manning is there or not.

Fact is, Denver has to win a SB to justify Manning, now more than ever, THAT is what's stupid., he's infinitely better than any other option but they can't even try to win a SB with Manning because people think they can predict the future. And again, sooner or later he won't be worth it, but don't come back and say "I told you so" because I'd be saying "I told you so" when the Broncos couldn't justify letting Manning go. It literally goes both ways, there's risks no matter what direction they take.

Apparently the Broncos wanna win the SB this season, it's pointless to argue that Manning gives them their best chance whether he restructures or not, whether they keep Potroast or not. To me, fretting about 2017 is loser talk, this is the kind of talk that got me blasted for Suck-for-Luck but Denver doesn't have Tebow, they have PFM.

Besides, if the Broncos fail to win a SB with Manning it's not like they'll stop trying and if Manning is replaceable so is the players they'll lose "because of him".

[Lancane]

Yes, one last hurrah, thats not stupid that's the NFL. Joels been crying wolf for 3 years and is waiting til they lose someone better than Decker to say I told you so, sooner or later they're going to lose that player but that's true if Manning is there or not.

Fact is, Denver has to win a SB to justify Manning, now more than ever, THAT is what's stupid., he's infinitely better than any other option but they can't even try to win a SB with Manning because people think they can predict the future. And again, sooner or later he won't be worth it, but don't come back and say "I told you so" because I'd be saying "I told you so" when the Broncos couldn't justify letting Manning go. It literally goes both ways, there's risks no matter what direction they take.

Apparently the Broncos wanna win the SB this season, it's pointless to argue that Manning gives them their best chance whether he restructures or not, whether they keep Potroast or not. To me, fretting about 2017 is loser talk, this is the kind of talk that got me blasted for Suck-for-Luck but Denver doesn't have Tebow, they have PFM.

This was not even about Manning, seriously... Manning isn't the Broncos, they'll be here long after he's an afterthought to be quite F'n honest - he's a temporary quarterback, a mercenary hired to win a Super Bowl, sorry if that hurts some feelings but I am about tired of the 'Manning Love Fest' especially when it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the discussion at hand - only his contract and the fact that most believe he will restructure, for good reason, the same reason Brady did for New England to retain talent and remain competitive. Most quarterbacks making 20 plus million are not winning Lombardi trophies, they're the one and done crowed thus far and are seriously hurting their respective teams (fact). Nowhere did I even mention letting him go, it will play out as it needs to play out for good or for ill.

You and I have discussed the cap many time, so you know I am rather well versed about the fiscal gambit that is hampering the Broncos from just simply paying him and trying to retain a complete roster, it's not like I am farting and calling it wind. I seriously don't think the Broncos thought Manning would make it to year four, that is why his contract was unlike others under Elway and more back loaded. But from a simple stand point of Win v.s. Loss then yes, Manning gives Denver the better chance to win a title in 2015, I can even admit that, though I do not believe they will not from not wishing they would but because I think Denver's best chance was the previous two seasons and now with a new regime? I hope we win, but statistically speaking it's a long shot, so I've come to terms with Manning returning. As for the future, I think the Broncos do give a **** because if they didn't they wouldn't be worried about long-term deals with key players or extending Brock Osweiler...so it's not loser talk, it's simply the way it is.

That said, I believe Elway and Manning both know that it's not a one man show, I believe almost every team of the modern era has proved as much as well. So yeah, they're wondering how to cover the need of three starting offensive lineman, linebackers, safeties, tight ends, etc. with limited funds at their disposal and knowing that the draft will not cut it.

[Simple Jaded]

Manning love fest? I said he has yet to hurt the Broncos cap situation, they're $20-30 MM under the cap at the moment and somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-50 MM under 2016 cap, yet the much of the MB is buzzing with how bad Manning is killing the Broncos future.

It's a myth.

If they wanted to keep Knighton over Manning they could, if they wanna keep Osweiler over Manning next year they can. In the meantime, Irving, JT, Moore and Osweiler, just a few af the many injustices done at the hand of an elite QB and the going rate of his contract.

All this while Denver is currently under the salary cap and have every intention of winning in 2015 AND 2017-18-19- and beyond. I never said the Broncos don't care about their future, I firmly beileve they because they're just as healthy in the future as they are now.

The Broncos are gonna lose some good players, it happens, but if they were kept these are the same players that would keep the Broncos from keeping the next group of injustices. Such is the cycle of life in the NFL.

[Lancane]

Manning love fest? I said he has yet to hurt the Broncos cap situation, they're $20-30 MM under the cap at the moment and somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-50 MM under 2016 cap, yet the much of the MB is buzzing with how bad Manning is killing the Broncos future.

It's a myth.

Reread what you wrote. Not once did I mention cutting him or anything of the sort, this was about his contract and the cap, not about Manning (outside that)...hence the love fest statement.

As for the Broncos’ Cap situation, the Cap is set at 133 million, it’s expected to go up to 142 million for 2015, but as of this moment Denver has about 11 mil in available cap space, the Broncos can only rollover about 3 mil. So the Broncos have about 14 million on the books until the new cap is decided and that will only open up another 9 mil. So Denver will be at about 23 million before Demaryius Thomas is even tagged. Now subtract 12.7 million for the tag and the Broncos are only left with about 10.3 million, that is it. Even if they work out a long-term deal with Thomas look for them to only save about 2.7 million the first year, so then 13 million left to move, they can trim some fat and clear about another 7 to 8 million which would leave them about 20 million, they’re trying to re-sign Julius Thomas to a deal, so there goes about half, to keep Terrance Knighton there goes another 5 mil. Leaving Denver 5 million with little left to re-sign about six or seven additional players they wanted to keep or holes they needed to fill. Add another 9 million from a restructured contract or pay cut in terms of Manning’s contract and Denver will have about 14 million now after they pay the others and retain depth they are looking at having about 7 to 8 million, they could sign another key free agent and have enough cushion that they don’t have to worry about much of anything.

The only way I can see them pulling it off without changing his contract is letting Julius Thomas walk, which it doesn’t look like they plan to let happen. And as for Terrance Knighton, the Broncos would be idiots to let the best defensive tackle they’ve had in near twenty years walk. So where does the so-called myth leave them?


If they wanted to keep Knighton over Manning they could, if they wanna keep Osweiler over Manning next year they can. In the meantime, Irving, JT, Moore and Osweiler, just a few af the many injustices done at the hand of an elite QB and the going rate of his contract.

Injustices? Please, that’s a cheap excuse for allowing a franchise to lick **** off the public stall floor for the sake of a possible ‘maybe scenario’. Manning on the roster guarantees squat for the Broncos, to allow the future of the franchise go for a maybe would be utterly stupid and Elway in my opinion knows that all too well, he’s no dim-wit. And the going rate for elite quarterbacks? Funny, because the going rate for quarterbacks with multiple championships is near five million less, the elitist top five have three with rings and only one each.


All this while Denver is currently under the salary cap and have every intention of winning in 2015 AND 2017-18-19- and beyond. I never said the Broncos don't care about their future, I firmly beileve they because they're just as healthy in the future as they are now.

Currently under the cap, but Denver is walking a tightrope right now and depending on how they proceed could be looking at leaving them Jack and ****, and Jack could be playing in Oakland or elsewhere come OTA’s.


The Broncos are gonna lose some good players, it happens, but if they were kept these are the same players that would keep the Broncos from keeping the next group of injustices. Such is the cycle of life in the NFL.

True, that is the nature of the business, it’s also the nature of the business to build a competitive roster that can lead to winning championships not just teams with a great quarterback who might carry you to a championship which is hard to do when a single player takes up about 30% of your cap. Look at what New Orleans is facing because of Drew Brees this off-season. I can understand losing starters like Moore, Franklin, Irving and others, but some you do not allow to leave so easily and for the sake of one, cause last I checked this is still a team sport.

[Simple Jaded]

Ok, Lan, the Broncos are stupid shitty stall lickers and on an irreversible course to salary cap hell. That doesn't sound like a fan talking at all.

Btw, it makes far more sense to let the second best QB in franchise history walk over their DT?

[Lancane]

Ok, Lan, the Broncos are stupid shitty stall lickers and on an irreversible course to salary cap hell. That doesn't sound like a fan talking at all.

You need to learn to read better bro. What I was saying in a round about way is that Elway allowing that for the sake of a maybe or a one time championship would be foolhardy, so how is it that what I called them? I said that I don't believe he's dumb enough to allow it basically.


Injustices? Please, that’s a cheap excuse for allowing a franchise to lick **** off the public stall floor for the sake of a possible ‘maybe scenario’. Manning on the roster guarantees squat for the Broncos, to allow the future of the franchise go for a maybe would be utterly stupid and Elway in my opinion knows that all too well, he’s no dim-wit. And the going rate for elite quarterbacks? Funny, because the going rate for quarterbacks with multiple championships is near five million less, the elitist top five have three with rings and only one each.

[Simple Jaded]

Fair enough, here's how I took it, if I read it right you've convinced yourself that Denver only wants Manning back if he'll restructure. Denver apparenlty wants Manning to play, I feel you're currently speculating whether or not that has any stipulations. It's the notion that Denver is too smart to not put stipulations on his playing that makes me think you think the Broncos are otherwise stupid, bathroom stall lickers.

All this could be much ado about nothing, maybe Manning decides against playing, maybe the Broncos fail his physical, maybe you're right and the Broncos tell him he's playing only if they don't have to lick public bathrooms. I'm fine either way

[Timmy!]

:lol:

You guys are hilarious. Let's make this simple. Manning is coming back. DT will be a Bronco. So will Pot Roast. Julious, Moore (thank jeebus) and a few lesser FA's won't. They will fortify the OL and whatever else in fa/draft. There will be no current or future cap hell, and we can expect a 10-1 shot at winning it all. The end.

[Simple Jaded]

Timmy's right.

[Lancane]

Fair enough, here's how I took it, if I read it right you've convinced yourself that Denver only wants Manning back if he'll restructure. Denver apparenlty wants Manning to play, I feel you're currently speculating whether or not that has any stipulations. It's the notion that Denver is too smart to not put stipulations on his playing that makes me think you think the Broncos are otherwise stupid, bathroom stall lickers.

All this could be much ado about nothing, maybe Manning decides against playing, maybe the Broncos fail his physical, maybe you're right and the Broncos tell him he's playing only if they don't have to lick public bathrooms. I'm fine either way

No, I am not saying that they only want him back if he does restructure (though that is a possibility). I believe this is more of a mutual agreement for Elway and Manning, I think they both realize that depleting the roster too much and having glaring holes will hamper any chance to accomplish their goals. What I was trying to get at is that allowing a franchise to 'become' bathroom stall lickers as you put it for the sake of one player is moronically stupid and that I don't see Elway being inept enough or dim-witted enough to allow that to happen. So maybe it was my phrasing, but I sure the hell wasn't calling them that...not even when we had to live through Orton and Tebow would I have said that, but we were far closer to that then, then now.

As far as placing stipulations on him, who knows...but let's break it down, in a more simplified manner; according to Manning's camp he's ready to roll for 2015, but the Broncos? I mean we're hearing that it's possibly about them not being sure about Manning (though unlikely), wanting him to restructure or take a pay cut, but if both side were really sold then why no announcement and dragging this on? So best guess is that they are trying to free up some cap to retain at least a good portion of the roster.

I've sort of come to a sense of acceptance in regards to Manning, so either way I am fine but I just hope not at the cost of the Broncos a year or two from now.

[Lancane]

:lol:

You guys are hilarious. Let's make this simple. Manning is coming back. DT will be a Bronco. So will Pot Roast. Julious, Moore (thank jeebus) and a few lesser FA's won't. They will fortify the OL and whatever else in fa/draft. There will be no current or future cap hell, and we can expect a 10-1 shot at winning it all. The end.

So simple there Timmy?

[Timmy!]

So simple there Timmy?

Indeed. Nostratimmy is a student of KISS.....and I don't mean the band.

[Valar Morghulis]

Indeed. Nostratimmy is a student of KISS.....and I don't mean the band.

Kiss?
Keep it simple stupid?

[Davii]

Kiss?
Keep it simple stupid?

Keep it silly, shitface?

[Timmy!]

Keep it silly, shitface?

I like this one better.

[TXBRONC]

Indeed. Nostratimmy is a student of KISS.....and I don't mean the band.

That's fine but I'm not stupid. :tsk:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

INDIANAPOLIS — They filed in one by one through the front lobby, light luggage in hand.

The Broncos' coaching staff arrived Tuesday for the start of the NFL scouting combine. Offensive assistant Brian Callahan checked in first. Then new head coach Gary Kubiak. No one is more important than the other with this new Broncos' coaching staff.

New offensive line coach Clancy Barone, tight ends coach Brian Pariani and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison patiently waited their turn in the suddenly growing line leading to the front desk.

Peyton Manning wasn't here, not that he would be. Manning was ever present, though, in the minds of the Broncos' coaching staff.

"I'm expecting him to come back," Kubiak said. "We want to play with him. This organization has won a lot of games with him and we want to get back and do it again. Expecting him to come back."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27545289/broncos-coach-gary-kubiak-says-he-expects-peyton-manning-back

[Denver Native (Carol)]

INDIANAPOLIS — — He didn't shuffle hesitantly through the revolving door.

He pushed through the contraption like the baddest man in town. Top coat collar raised. Sporty sunglasses. Confident swagger.

John Elway had arrived.

The Broncos' general manager didn't have a chance to get into his room before he was asked about his quarterback Peyton Manning.

"He hasn't made a decision yet," Elway said as he embarks on his fifth NFL scouting combine as the Broncos' boss of football operations. "I know he feels better. We had a good talk."

AND


Besides personally scouting the group of draft prospects, the Broncos will meet this week with representatives of their free agent players. There is a meeting scheduled with agents for defensive tackle Terrance Knighton, receiver Demaryius Thomas, guard-tackle Orlando Franklin and safety Rahim Moore, among others.

"We'll see where everybody is," Elway said.


full article - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27552799/broncos-john-elway-says-peyton-manning-hasnt-made

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from same article:


There is no meeting scheduled, though, with Frank Bauer, agent for Julius Thomas, as it appears the talented, but ankle-troubled tight end wants to test free agency when the market opens March 10.

If a long-term deal with Demaryius Thomas can't be reached, it appears the Broncos will put an estimated $12.7 million franchise tage on him by the March 2 deadline.

His market value wasn't helped when Arizona re-signed receiver Larry Fitzgerald to essentially a new two-year contract worth $11 million a year. Fitzgerald had previously been the league's second-highest-paid receiver with an annual average of $16.15 million.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27552799/broncos-john-elway-says-peyton-manning-hasnt-made

[Lancane]

from same article:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27552799/broncos-john-elway-says-peyton-manning-hasnt-made

That's good news, Randall Cobb reportedly wants 9 mil. a year, between the two it will set up a much more cap friendly price tag for going receivers.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Some NFL players should get a pass.

Especially one who can pass like that.

Those suggesting Peyton Manning hang it up because he's getting old and fragile need to (a) look in the mirror and (b) study the facts.

Despite playing the last two months of the season with a significant leg injury, Manning threw for 295 yards per game and ranked fourth in the NFL in passer rating among starting quarterbacks. He was so old and so fragile that he quarterbacked the Broncos to their third straight division title since he arrived in Denver.

(A thought: What if Manning had signed with the Titans instead of the Broncos in 2012 and played like this? We'd be electing him mayor and naming the stadium after him instead of suggesting it is time for him to hang up his chinstrap.)

rest - http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/columnist/david-climer/2015/02/21/old-fragile-real-peyton-manning/23785035/

[TXBRONC]

rest - http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/columnist/david-climer/2015/02/21/old-fragile-real-peyton-manning/23785035/

The fact is Manning's window opportunity is getting smaller by the year and at 39 years of age he doesn't bounce as fast as he did when he was 25.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Tony Dungy isn't a betting man. If he was, he'd be certain to put his money on a Peyton Manning return next season.

At age 39, Manning likely will be on a mission, Dungy said. He's coming back to be the first 39-year-old quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl.

Dungy hung out recently with Manning at the Super Bowl, presenting his former Indianapolis Colts quarterback with the Bart Starr award.

"It's the first time I've ever heard him talk about life after football, but I didn't get the sense that that was right away," Dungy said. "I think he's thinking down the road a little bit. He was talking about his guys and how much he enjoys his team and teammates and I just think he's planning on being back."

This is all in the article on Peyton
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/02/21/tony-dungy-peyton-manning-colts-future-indy-food/23813855/

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is all in the article on Peyton
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/02/21/tony-dungy-peyton-manning-colts-future-indy-food/23813855/

I like to hear that.

[Simple Jaded]

Rumors are swirling that the delay is a staring contest over contract.

If Denver asked Manning to restructure there is no going back now, imo.

Don't blink John, make him play on your terms, he's the one working on his legacy.

[pulse]

Rumors are swirling that the delay is a staring contest over contract.

If Denver asked Manning to restructure there is no going back now, imo.

Don't blink John, make him play on your terms, he's the one working on his legacy.

Those rumors are hilarious. A staring contest? Really? I can imagine John personally handing Peyton a nicely done portfolio that includes some restructuring options with several choices for Manning to consider. Then Manning thanking John for all of his support. And that being that. Manning leaving to go home to consider things.

lol... staring contest. Elway wants Manning back first and foremost. There's no staring contest.

[Lancane]

Those rumors are hilarious. A staring contest? Really? I can imagine John personally handing Peyton a nicely done portfolio that includes some restructuring options with several choices for Manning to consider. Then Manning thanking John for all of his support. And that being that. Manning leaving to go home to consider things.

lol... staring contest. Elway wants Manning back first and foremost. There's no staring contest.

Elway is no *****, I could easily see him being relentless as a negotiator.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elway is no *****, I could easily see him being relentless as a negotiator.

Not sure relentless is the correct description. With #7 being a part of his own negotiations more than once, he first hand knows what it is like, and also knows how the end result helped the Broncos at that time.

[Rick]

6798

The stare down.

[tomjonesrocks]

Guess he's got to 3/9 to get something done, but if he's set on returning and this over money as reported as a fan it's annoying.

Stink on TV talking about this right now -- it's just old. I'm just tired of the topic.

Just take JFEs offer or don't. The delay here seems pointless. Elway's style has been to put an offer in and walk away.

If Manning has his eye on other teams a la Fox, I don't necessarily blame him but lets get on with it.

[Simple Jaded]

Those rumors are hilarious. A staring contest? Really? I can imagine John personally handing Peyton a nicely done portfolio that includes some restructuring options with several choices for Manning to consider. Then Manning thanking John for all of his support. And that being that. Manning leaving to go home to consider things.

lol... staring contest. Elway wants Manning back first and foremost. There's no staring contest.
Clough and Hastings were talking like the most likely endgame is Manning coming back at his current salary, is that in the portfolio?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

http://t.co/Gv9kmBw99V

[TXBRONC]

Those rumors are hilarious. A staring contest? Really? I can imagine John personally handing Peyton a nicely done portfolio that includes some restructuring options with several choices for Manning to consider. Then Manning thanking John for all of his support. And that being that. Manning leaving to go home to consider things.

lol... staring contest. Elway wants Manning back first and foremost. There's no staring contest.

A staring contest is better than a pissing contest. Those are messier and smellier. :nod: