Stokley: At Season’s End, Manning’s ‘Bad Was Really Bad’

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER (CBS4) – Peyton Manning will make a guest appearance on “Saturday Night Live” in two weeks.

It could be a perfect opportunity for him to announce he’s returning to play another season for the Denver Broncos.

But what are the Broncos getting if he does come back?

According to former Broncos receiver Brandon Stokley, a close friend of Manning, the leg injury Manning suffered near season’s end was worse than it looked.

rest - plus videos - Brandon was on with Vic last night on XML
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/02/03/brandon-stokley-at-seasons-end-peyton-mannings-bad-was-really-bad/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Northman]

Which is why i question why he was even playing. Could of rested him the rest of the regular season and had him healthy for the playoffs at least.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Which is why i question why he was even playing. Could of rested him the rest of the regular season and had him healthy for the playoffs at least.

I don't remember, but if he would have sat out the last two games, did the Broncos have the division wrapped up at that time?

[Northman]

I don't remember, but if he would have sat out the last two games, did the Broncos have the division wrapped up at that time?

No. But there is only two ways you can go about that.

1) You sit Manning and hope the team can seal the division. But, you would get a healthy Manning for the playoffs and since we (as we are now) need him to be at his sharpest would of been the logical move.

or

2) Let Manning finish the regular season, wrap up the #2 seed and then let Oz play vs the Colts. I think scenario 1 would of been the best choice regardless if we had to go on the road.

[Valar Morghulis]

I don't remember, but if he would have sat out the last two games, did the Broncos have the division wrapped up at that time?

No. But brock could have beat the raiders

[Buff]

I don't remember, but if he would have sat out the last two games, did the Broncos have the division wrapped up at that time?

What difference does it make if we are the #1 or the #2 seed if our gimpy QB can't play effectively in the playoff game coming off a bye? We would have been better off as the #6 seed and a healthy QB in the playoffs.

Hindsight is 20/20, but Manning really hurt the team down the stretch. We cannot continue to live and die with him like that. He needs to be a cog in the wheel, not THE wheel.

[Lancane]

What difference does it make if we are the #1 or the #2 seed if our gimpy QB can't play effectively in the playoff game coming off a bye? We would have been better off as the #6 seed and a healthy QB in the playoffs.

Hindsight is 20/20, but Manning really hurt the team down the stretch. We cannot continue to live and die with him like that. He needs to be a cog in the wheel, not THE wheel.

An expensive wheel to boot.

[Joel]

I don't remember, but if he would have sat out the last two games, did the Broncos have the division wrapped up at that time?
Actually, yeah: We clinched the previous week when we beat the Chargers, because that made us 11-3 while they and KC were 8-6, and we had the first tiebreak over both because we swept them. I remember, because we were the late game and the announcers made a big deal of the fact Indy and NE had already clinched right before our kickoff, so it was a question of whether we'd do the same or choke.

I dunno though, it's really hard to argue we should've just given up on winning the #1 seed with 2 whole games left and only the tiebreak separating us and NE. That just feels really defeatist, and defeatism's not a good recipe for winning games, much less postseason elimination games. Also, as bad as Manning looked in the wildcard game, how much WORSE would he have looked if forced to play a week earlier? Because if Oz can't beat the Raiders, INDY'S #2 seed and we host the Bengals who beat us two weeks earlier.

The reality is we've got a 38-year-old Bionic QB; just because his quick reads and releases have kept his sack total <20 most seasons he's played doesn't mean we should RELY on that and blow off the line that both protects him and provides the run support to take literal and figurative pressure off him. The game's won and lost at and beside the center, NOT under him.

[Northman]

There is a reason why Denver sat John in 98' and let Brister fill in. You have to look at the bigger picture and the long term goal, Denver could not afford to risk losing Elway for the playoffs and instead rolled the dice on a couple of regular season games. Im not sure if it was Peyton's decision or the coaching staff (maybe both) but it was the wrong move in my opinion to allow Peyton to keep playing if the injury was more severe which is what it looked like. If Peyton was trying to keep his stats padded than i think that is a very selfish move on his part. If the coaching staff forced him out there than im more than glad they are gone.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

What difference does it make if we are the #1 or the #2 seed if our gimpy QB can't play effectively in the playoff game coming off a bye? We would have been better off as the #6 seed and a healthy QB in the playoffs.

Hindsight is 20/20, but Manning really hurt the team down the stretch. We cannot continue to live and die with him like that. He needs to be a cog in the wheel, not THE wheel.

All I did was ask a question - I was not promoting any opinion.

[BroncoJoe]

Carol just bitch-slapped Buff. That was glorious.

In regard to the story:

:shocked:

not really.

[Buff]

All I did was ask a question - I was not promoting any opinion.

I was merely posing another question in response to your question. Wasn't directing any disagreement your way. :)

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I was merely posing another question in response to your question. Wasn't directing any disagreement your way. :)

:throwrock::eviltongue::yell: :hug:

[Joel]

Tned should really invest in an octagon so we can all mainline bull hormones and hack each other to death with machetes. But some of us ain't got the brass for that. ;)

If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch, forsooth. :tongue:

[dogfish]

okay, settle down, carol!

[TXBRONC]

okay, settle down, carol!

Be careful Dog Carol might just all MMA on your ass. :shocked:

[Dreadnought]

There is a reason why Denver sat John in 98' and let Brister fill in. You have to look at the bigger picture and the long term goal, Denver could not afford to risk losing Elway for the playoffs and instead rolled the dice on a couple of regular season games. Im not sure if it was Peyton's decision or the coaching staff (maybe both) but it was the wrong move in my opinion to allow Peyton to keep playing if the injury was more severe which is what it looked like. If Peyton was trying to keep his stats padded than i think that is a very selfish move on his part. If the coaching staff forced him out there than im more than glad they are gone.

By week 15 everyone is hurt, more or less. The staff has to depend on Manning's self reporting (especially on a soft tissue injury), and Manning is a guy who won't even let his backup take 1st team reps in practice, much less replace him in a regular season game. That's not in his DNA

[BroncoWave]

By week 15 everyone is hurt, more or less. The staff has to depend on Manning's self reporting (especially on a soft tissue injury), and Manning is a guy who won't even let his backup take 1st team reps in practice, much less replace him in a regular season game. That's not in his DNA

If that's the case, then he's too stubborn for his own good when it comes to the ultimate goal of winning a title.

[underrated29]

I think you guys are looking waaaaaaay too far into things.

[TXBRONC]

I think you guys are looking waaaaaaay too far into things.

I don't think they are.

[underrated29]

I don't think they are.



Peyton is our best chance to win. Plain and simple. He is also not our only chance to win either.

[Simple Jaded]

Which is why i question why he was even playing. Could of rested him the rest of the regular season and had him healthy for the playoffs at least.

Folks are questioning his core values, toughness and intangibles, for not running for a 1st down I don't think we need hindsight to know the backlash he'd be getting for not playing.

[Simple Jaded]

An expensive wheel to boot.

It's the going rate.

[Northman]

Folks are questioning his core values, toughness and intangibles, for not running for a 1st down I don't think we need hindsight to know the backlash he'd be getting for not playing.

Disagree entirely.

When Elway was hurt and Brister came in no one ever questioned it as they understand that players get hurt. In fact, in Peyton's case him playing injured hurt the team more than helped and i came down on him very hard for not running for that first down. And of course we learn later he was still injured pretty badly so that explains that but i still question why he was still playing when he should of been resting. I seriously doubt that anyone on here would complain if they knew he was injured as no one came down on Elway for it.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't think Manning gets that same benefit of the doubt that Elway got back then, Broncos fans have changed since then. Manning played through the injury and we're still debating whether he's worth keeping around.

[Joel]

People are complaining about him playing hurt, but wouldn't complain if he sat hurt? I'd like to believe that, but it still seems like exactly what I feared 3 years ago: Everyone was so sure signing Manning guaranteed multiple championships that if we didn't win ANY it would be all his fault. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing him with both ankles tapes or limping downfield for the next play because his line can't pass block, or having to carry the team because "historys greatest offense" was 20th in rushing yds/att this year AND last. He's really NOT a one-man offense, and expecting him to be can only lead to heartbreak.

We've got a whole thread on whether to keep DT, and someone just opined that even Jerry Rice can't do jack without a QB to throw to him, which underscores the problem: Even with 3 Pro Bowl WRs and a (somehow) Pro Bowl TE, they EACH still need Manning to get them the ball, so the whole offense stands or falls on him. We can't win championships like that; sure, Fox and Co. made it harder (especially since they had a lot to do with the one-dimensional offense Gase told Simms cost us a SB) but even Lombardi couldn't have won games if Starr had been INCAPABLE of passing when the Sweep didn't work.

It's just so much easier to blame the pricey merc who's only been here 3 years and will be gone next year (if not already:) If he's the whole problem, that problem leaves with him, so we never need face hard facts nor confront deeper problems that were here before Manning and will remain afterward unless addressed, nor ask whether the guy deciding which linemen make the roster may have goofed. That's easily the biggest reason I'm glad Kubes and Denny are here to fix our line; whether we've got Manning, Oz or TBA next year, I'll feel better about WHOEVER it is if he has solid protection and reliable run support.

[Northman]

I don't think Manning gets that same benefit of the doubt that Elway got back then, Broncos fans have changed since then. Manning played through the injury and we're still debating whether he's worth keeping around.

Of course he gets the same benefit, the problem is he and the coaching staff told everyone he was fine but then proceeded to play horribly down the stretch. Bronco fans havent changed at all in my opinion, the only issue at hand here is how his injury was handled. I have NEVER seen a Bronco fan either on this site or in my circle of friends say that they would rather see a player play seriously injured rather than get healthy. If you have any links to threads or posts on here that show that can you please post them? I seriously have never seen a fan say that.

[Northman]

People are complaining about him playing hurt, but wouldn't complain if he sat hurt?

Post proof that people would of wanted to see Manning play seriously hurt. Ill wait. Otherwise ****. That is such a BS statement by you and Jaded, its actually quite embarrassing that either you would even imply that.

[Jsteve01]

I don't think Manning gets that same benefit of the doubt that Elway got back then, Broncos fans have changed since then. Manning played through the injury and we're still debating whether he's worth keeping around. the really great decision was attempting to get out and block. Let's be real if his medical says he can play there is no way in hell "milqtoast" and fox get him to sit.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think Manning gets that same benefit of the doubt that Elway got back then, Broncos fans have changed since then. Manning played through the injury and we're still debating whether he's worth keeping around.

It's hindsight but Manning should have taken some time off after he got hurt. He's worth keeping around but I am concerned that he might not make though an entire season.

[Joel]

Post proof that people would of wanted to see Manning play seriously hurt. Ill wait. Otherwise ****. That is such a BS statement by you and Jaded, its actually quite embarrassing that either you would even imply that.

How's anyone supposed to PROVE how people would've reacted to what DIDN'T happen? Prove Rigelians wouldn't have invaded and eaten the human race if the Nazis had won WWII.

Yet the growing narrative all our woes and failures are the fault of decrepit choking Manning gives a pretty good idea what people would have said. Someone must shoulder the blame, and the smart money's on the guy we paid $20 million/yr to the gleeful cheers of a fanbase convinced that meant all our problems were quickly and simply solved with a couple pen strokes. If only 4-12 teams were so easily fixed....

[Northman]

How's anyone supposed to PROVE how people would've reacted to what DIDN'T happen? Prove Rigelians wouldn't have invaded and eaten the human race if the Nazis had won WWII.

Yet the growing narrative all our woes and failures are the fault of decrepit choking Manning gives a pretty good idea what people would have said. Someone must shoulder the blame, and the smart money's on the guy we paid $20 million/yr to the gleeful cheers of a fanbase convinced that meant all our problems were quickly and simply solved with a couple pen strokes. If only 4-12 teams were so easily fixed....

You should be ashamed of yourself. Sorry, no one on this board would endorse Manning to play through a serious injury so you can straight up F off. People came down on Peyton because the ONLY knowledge anyone had was that he was fine and ready to go. Its not the fanbases fault that coaching staff and Manning himself hid the severity of his injury. It was a poor decision on the staff and with Manning himself to play through that. Its gutsy no doubt about it, but stupid because it may have cost us postseason success because he wasnt as healthy as should or could of been. I took you knobs off ignore thinking you had actually turned the corner with decent debate and talking points. But alas, you prove me wrong yet again with this utter and silly nonsense. Back to ignore for you two dillweeds. Totally moronic statements. lmao

[Jsteve01]

People are complaining about him playing hurt, but wouldn't complain if he sat hurt?

Post proof that people would of wanted to see Manning play seriously hurt. Ill wait. Otherwise ****. That is such a BS statement by you and Jaded, its actually quite embarrassing that either you would even imply that.. You didn't hear all the talk about how overstated the quad injury was? I think for all the hate Phil Simms gets he did pretty good job defending how much the injury impacted Manning. I injured by my quads one year during baseball season and could hardly plant to hit or get out of the box let alone run the bases

[Northman]

. You didn't hear all the talk about how overstated the quad injury was? I think for all the hate Phil Simms gets he did pretty good job defending how much the injury impacted Manning. I injured by my quads one year during baseball season and could hardly plant to hit or get out of the box let alone run the bases

You mean the early reports before it was found out he had a tear? Yea, i read that and yet never saw anyone say that Manning should of played through a serious injury. Guess i will have add more to my ignore list, the idiots are out in force.

[Jsteve01]

. You didn't hear all the talk about how overstated the quad injury was? I think for all the hate Phil Simms gets he did pretty good job defending how much the injury impacted Manning. I injured by my quads one year during baseball season and could hardly plant to hit or get out of the box let alone run the bases

You mean the early reports before it was found out he had a tear? Yea, i read that and yet never saw anyone say that Manning should of played through a serious injury. Guess i will have add more to my ignore list, the idiots are out in force. I thought the training staff came back out and said that it wasn't a tear after Schefter tweeted tear. Regardless. Its the same crap I've heard from arm chair quarterbacks about deep thigh bruises and ankle sprains. Douches who've never endured them need to keep quiet on playing through injuries

[Joel]

You should be ashamed of yourself. Sorry, no one on this board would endorse Manning to play through a serious injury so you can straight up F off. People came down on Peyton because the ONLY knowledge anyone had was that he was fine and ready to go. Its not the fanbases fault that coaching staff and Manning himself hid the severity of his injury. It was a poor decision on the staff and with Manning himself to play through that. Its gutsy no doubt about it, but stupid because it may have cost us postseason success because he wasnt as healthy as should or could of been. I took you knobs off ignore thinking you had actually turned the corner with decent debate and talking points. But alas, you prove me wrong yet again with this utter and silly nonsense. Back to ignore for you two dillweeds. Totally moronic statements. lmao
I don't remember who said what in the thread, but WELL after his quad tear was announced there were plenty of people giving him crap for not running for that first down; I remember that, because when I brought it up I was informed something to the effect of "he didn't HAVE to run, he could've HOPPED for it!" And I'M supposed to be ashamed? Sorry, guess I'm just shameless.

[Simple Jaded]

Post proof that people would of wanted to see Manning play seriously hurt. Ill wait. Otherwise ****. That is such a BS statement by you and Jaded, its actually quite embarrassing that either you would even imply that.

Wait, what? I said he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, that's pretty much true for any athlete. Chill out, North.

[underrated29]

Whose to say that manning would have healed by then? Whose to say that we would have won those critical games to get home Field? To get a bye?


Furthermore, injured or not, Brock or manning, no one. Nobody was going to take our team anywhere this year. NOT with what we had.


You guys talk about stubborn. Look no further then the coaches. We have one coach who is so stubborn we call at least 7 bubble screens a game. None of them work. DT stopped even catching the passes on them because they were getting blown up. That's stubborn! We have a DC who refused to blitz, who refused to take talib off of TY...did you guys see what belicheck did with browner in the suoerbowl?...yeah we didn't do that. Why? Stubborn. Then we have, had- a coach who put no fire into the team. Clapped after the 3rd consecutive three and out. Go team! Nah. Hell no! Hurt manning, healthy Brock, Tom Brady were not going to do shit with this team. Not with the coaches being complete penis heads.


Once again I will say to anyone and all- Our ENTIRE offense went to the Probowl. Do you honestly think belicheck, shanny, Pete carol, Rex Ryan, even gay Josh mcdouchecano could not gain 10 yards in 9 tries?!?!!!

9 tries- that's 1.1 yard per play. Injured or not our offense is way to damn good for 1.1ypp.


Do you think with hurt manning belicheck could have scored more than 13 points against the colts? He sure as hell did with a severely less talented roster..........there is a lot of blame. Peyton gets his share for playing poorly, but you all are looking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far into this.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh well. Broncos fans booed Manning off the field in what might've been the final game of his career, if you're offended by the notion that Broncos fans might actually use sitting out due to injury as a reason to move on I think you're more than a little thin-skinned.

[Lancane]

Oh well. Broncos fans booed Manning off the field in what might've been the final game of his career, if you're offended by the notion that Broncos fans might actually use sitting out due to injury as a reason to move on I think you're more than a little thin-skinned.

Fans are fickle, but the whole squad deserved to be booed, they quit on all fronts which was more then obvious. But the fan base is split, some are ready to move on and some are not. But you'll always hear more regarding those disenchanted compared to those who are satisfied.

[DenBronx]

Id rather go into the wild card with a healthy Manning then 2nd seed and two bum quads.

Mentally we weren't in it and scared of both Seattle and NE anyway.

[Shazam!]

As for the booing, It wasn't even all about just Manning's ineffectiveness, half the team failed to show up in the biggest game of the year. No fire.

Hi Coach Kubiak!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm really hoping Kubiak will remove the go route from the play book on 3rd and short.

[MOtorboat]

Post proof that people would of wanted to see Manning play seriously hurt. Ill wait. Otherwise ****. That is such a BS statement by you and Jaded, its actually quite embarrassing that either you would even imply that.

I know for a fact that Joel would complain about $20 million on the bench.

Can you imagine how many words he'd waste on it? Fact.

[Joel]

I know for a fact that Joel would complain about $20 million on the bench.

Can you imagine how many words he'd waste on it? Fact.
Did you just pop in to snipe at me (again) without bothering to read ANYTHING I said (again)? Because I've consistently made my position clear since page one, and that ain't it.

Why not try talking about the thread instead of talking about me? Just for noveltys sake?

[dogfish]

I'm really hoping Kubiak will remove the go route from the play book on 3rd and short.

i'll see your go route, and raise you the bubble screen. . . on any down and distance!

[MOtorboat]

Did you just pop in to snipe at me (again) without bothering to read ANYTHING I said (again)? Because I've consistently made my position clear since page one, and that ain't it.

Why not try talking about the thread instead of talking about me? Just for noveltys sake?

You made the assertion that people would complain if he did sit. North countered that. I was simply pointing out that you are arguing that position, because you yourself would be complaining. Just like you've complained, moaned, bitched, trolled and generally made anything about Manning miserable for three ******* years.

Don't like it? Quit spamming.

[TXBRONC]

I don't remember who said what in the thread, but WELL after his quad tear was announced there were plenty of people giving him crap for not running for that first down; I remember that, because when I brought it up I was informed something to the effect of "he didn't HAVE to run, he could've HOPPED for it!" And I'M supposed to be ashamed? Sorry, guess I'm just shameless.

That is inaccurate. Manning was catching crap for not running for the first down before it was public how bad his injury was. As it relates to the injury after it was made public the criticism has been in the form a two question primarily: 1.) Why didn't he sit out a few weeks and try to heal up instead playing? 2.) Why was he playing in a playoff game when he couldn't even run for a first down when even Kyle Orton could have made it?

[Mike]

By week 15 everyone is hurt, more or less. The staff has to depend on Manning's self reporting (especially on a soft tissue injury), and Manning is a guy who won't even let his backup take 1st team reps in practice, much less replace him in a regular season game. That's not in his DNA

Yeah, but who is the coach? You can't tell me that the staff couldn't look at what was going on and know that something wasn't right. It was their job to tell Manning to sit, not just for Manning but for the Broncos.

[Dreadnought]

Yeah, but who is the coach? You can't tell me that the staff couldn't look at what was going on and know that something wasn't right. It was their job to tell Manning to sit, not just for Manning but for the Broncos.

Arguably true as far as it goes. Hell, i could see he wasn't right, too, and so could you. I think its why we went increasingly run heavy as the season progressed. I'm not sure though that the coaching staff felt that the GM had their back on the issue, and believed they were hamstrung. Just a hunch, but it would explain a lot.

Dangerous heresy here, I know

[TXBRONC]

Arguably true as far as it goes. Hell, i could see he wasn't right, too, and so could you. I think its why we went increasingly run heavy as the season progressed. I'm not sure though that the coaching staff felt that the GM had their back on the issue, and believed they were hamstrung. Just a hunch, but it would explain a lot.

Dangerous heresy here, I know

It is possible that the coaching staff felt that the GM didn't have their back. It also possible that they gave Manning way to much latitude.

[Northman]

That is inaccurate. Manning was catching crap for not running for the first down before it was public how bad his injury was. As it relates to the injury after it was made public the criticism has been in the form a two question primarily: 1.) Why didn't he sit out a few weeks and try to heal up instead playing? 2.) Why was he playing in a playoff game when he couldn't even run for a first down when even Kyle Orton could made it?

Not only that but as previously mentioned the booing that took place in that game wasnt just about Manning. The fans were pissed off at the entire (aside from CJ who seemed to be the only one who wanted it the most) team and they let them know about it. Yea, i was pissed that Manning didnt run for the first down but that was before i or anyone else knew the severity of his injury.

[Northman]

Yeah, but who is the coach? You can't tell me that the staff couldn't look at what was going on and know that something wasn't right. It was their job to tell Manning to sit, not just for Manning but for the Broncos.


Arguably true as far as it goes. Hell, i could see he wasn't right, too, and so could you. I think its why we went increasingly run heavy as the season progressed. I'm not sure though that the coaching staff felt that the GM had their back on the issue, and believed they were hamstrung. Just a hunch, but it would explain a lot.

Dangerous heresy here, I know

I think you are both right, i have a feeling it was a combination of both. Maybe Manning thought he was more superhuman than he really was and maybe the coaching staff trusted his judgement a little too much.

[Ravage!!!]

If that's the case, then he's too stubborn for his own good when it comes to the ultimate goal of winning a title.

That's not true. You don't have the competative make-up of these guys. THere is NO WAY they believe they aren't the man to get THEIR job done. Period. This "he's not thinking about the team" is complete bunk, he's thinking that HE's better for the team. It's a strong STRONG feeling that they know to be fact.

[Simple Jaded]

That is inaccurate. Manning was catching crap for not running for the first down before it was public how bad his injury was. As it relates to the injury after it was made public the criticism has been in the form a two question primarily: 1.) Why didn't he sit out a few weeks and try to heal up instead playing? 2.) Why was he playing in a playoff game when he couldn't even run for a first down when even Kyle Orton could made it?

He's still getting killed about not running for that 1st down, according to Mike Evans, Vic Lombardi and Nate Lundy, fans are condemning his character to its core. According to this morning show it's not just a few people, it's about half the comments they're getting, they actually seemed shocked at the vitriol.

[Northman]

That's not true. You don't have the competative make-up of these guys. THere is NO WAY they believe they aren't the man to get THEIR job done. Period. This "he's not thinking about the team" is complete bunk, he's thinking that HE's better for the team. It's a strong STRONG feeling that they know to be fact.

While on the surface i would agree with you but lets not pretend that players dont go out there and think of themselves Rav. Terrell Owens ring a bell? Im not saying that Manning is or isnt of the mindset but its really not that uncommon for players to behave or act only in their own self interest. I believe towards the end of his career Brett Favre did exactly that.

[Ravage!!!]

While on the surface i would agree with you but lets not pretend that players dont go out there and think of themselves Rav. Terrell Owens ring a bell? Im not saying that Manning is or isnt of the mindset but its really not that uncommon for players to behave or act only in their own self interest. I believe towards the end of his career Brett Favre did exactly that.

I guess I wasn't thinking of Manning and Terrell Owens in the same thought process in this discussion. But how many times do we see TOP players push themselves to be on the field because they TRULY believe they are the best option for the TEAM? These guys are leaders, and KNOW they are good, but playing on the field isn't some kind of "arrogant" thought process. It's not because they aren't thinking whats the best for the team, rather they believe they ARE thinking what's best for the team. Manning wouldn't push himself to be on the field to "boost" his stats or playing time minutes. He wants to play, and its not because he feels he needs more face time on television.

Of course there are guys like Owens. But lets not make him out to be the "normal" in the NFL when talking about leaders and wanting to help their team.

[Simple Jaded]

As for the booing, It wasn't even all about just Manning's ineffectiveness, half the team failed to show up in the biggest game of the year. No fire.

Hi Coach Kubiak!

True enough but fans didn't boo DT and JT after Manning just over-threw a wide open Emmanual Sanders.

[pedrohmlima]

I think the booing was for Manning, more than to the team. He's PFM, the HoF who came back from the dead to take us to heaven.And when he makes an awful game like these people don't forgive. But for me that's inevitable. Vs the Ravens in THAT game wasn't his fault, was mistakes of Rahim Moore and Fox, but who was the choker after the loss? And in the good times for the Colts people forget the rest of the team either. Very few people who like Manning remember that game in Baltimore that the Colts won only with Vinatieri's FG, giving them a ride to AFCCG

This is a league of QBs

[Slick]

He's still getting killed about not running for that 1st down, according to Mike Evans, Vic Lombardi and Nate Lundy, fans are condemning his character to its core. According to this morning show it's not just a few people, it's about half the comments they're getting, they actually seemed shocked at the vitriol.

I ripped him for that exact play too. Obviously that was before his injury was "leaked."

I stand by it though. If he was too injured, or too stubborn or simply doesn't have the athletic ability to run for 5 yards instead of throwing it into double coverage when there was 20 yards of green grass in front of him, he shouldn't have been out there.

That was a critical moment in the game.

[Buff]

He's still getting killed about not running for that 1st down, according to Mike Evans, Vic Lombardi and Nate Lundy, fans are condemning his character to its core. According to this morning show it's not just a few people, it's about half the comments they're getting, they actually seemed shocked at the vitriol.

The part that bugs me about Evans and Lundy is that they want to characterize this as an overly emotional reaction from fans. Like we're reading way too much into that one play. Much like the position Cugel has been trying to advance - they believe we should be grateful if Manning wants to return because he's consistently good enough to win division championships, keep us relevant and winning, etc.

I'd argue this is the culmination of watching 3 years worth of Manning-style football. There are legitimate questions as to whether his brand of football in 2015 can win a championship. What if we've seen his ceiling? I'm on the other end of the spectrum and believe that that play was symbolic of all of Manning's shortcomings - he is stubbornly over-reliant on the pass, he isn't as accurate as he once was, his arm strength and mobility are lacking.

Now, whether you want to take it a step further and question his competitive drive and toughness is another story - but I don't think it's just fans overreacting like Lundy and Evans wanted to imply.

[BroncoWave]

I guess I wasn't thinking of Manning and Terrell Owens in the same thought process in this discussion. But how many times do we see TOP players push themselves to be on the field because they TRULY believe they are the best option for the TEAM? These guys are leaders, and KNOW they are good, but playing on the field isn't some kind of "arrogant" thought process. It's not because they aren't thinking whats the best for the team, rather they believe they ARE thinking what's best for the team. Manning wouldn't push himself to be on the field to "boost" his stats or playing time minutes. He wants to play, and its not because he feels he needs more face time on television.

Of course there are guys like Owens. But lets not make him out to be the "normal" in the NFL when talking about leaders and wanting to help their team.

If Manning thought his level of play is what was best for the team given his injury, then I'd have to question his intelligence. He had to know in the Colts game that his utter inability to make any sort of big play was hurting the team.

[mouthofsouth]

I don't remember, but if he would have sat out the last two games, did the Broncos have the division wrapped up at that time?

They were playing for a first round bye. That was important to them because they felt a week's rest would help the entire team, including Manning. In hindsight, now, they would probably have settled for the division champsionship, but it would have meant three playoff games instead of two. I think it was Indy that was fighting them for the first round bye. (second seed)

[Hawgdriver]

This falls on Fox. Manning is not going to punk out, and I wouldn't ask him to. But a good coach would know when to draw the line. The tape is there--outside experts could have advised Fox if Manning was being stoic about it. Fox set up the team to fail by working Manning like riding a horse to death.

[Hawgdriver]

This is all easy to say after we forget the "Championship or bust" mentality, but it seems now like a plodding, inert coaching style, and I'm glad he's gone.

[Ravage!!!]

If Manning thought his level of play is what was best for the team given his injury, then I'd have to question his intelligence. He had to know in the Colts game that his utter inability to make any sort of big play was hurting the team.

That's your right to think that. In the meantime, come up with a reasonable answer as to why he wanted to play instead of sitting, that makes sense.

[Simple Jaded]

The part that bugs me about Evans and Lundy is that they want to characterize this as an overly emotional reaction from fans. Like we're reading way too much into that one play. Much like the position Cugel has been trying to advance - they believe we should be grateful if Manning wants to return because he's consistently good enough to win division championships, keep us relevant and winning, etc.

I'd argue this is the culmination of watching 3 years worth of Manning-style football. There are legitimate questions as to whether his brand of football in 2015 can win a championship. What if we've seen his ceiling? I'm on the other end of the spectrum and believe that that play was symbolic of all of Manning's shortcomings - he is stubbornly over-reliant on the pass, he isn't as accurate as he once was, his arm strength and mobility are lacking.

Now, whether you want to take it a step further and question his competitive drive and toughness is another story - but I don't think it's just fans overreacting like Lundy and Evans wanted to imply.

I don't think it's just fans overreacting.

I think it's a mixture of a lot of things, the fans you're describing, fans overreacting like they're describing and there's also a lot of butthurt Orangefanatics who are still bitter about the Broncos signing Manning in the first place.

I'm just saying there is backlash, and my original point that sent North off the deep end, there would be backlash if he missed multiple games to injury. He's screwed if he played and screwed if he didn't, instead of debating whether or not he hurt the team by playing folks would be talking about how he's a broken down 38-year-old who can't be counted on for 16+ games.

I can't imagine why that offends people, oh well.

[BroncoWave]

That's your right to think that. In the meantime, come up with a reasonable answer as to why he wanted to play instead of sitting, that makes sense.

He's stubborn and/or arrogant? Maybe he was in denial? Who knows. But clearly he shouldn't have been out there.

[Ravage!!!]

He's stubborn and/or arrogant? Maybe he was in denial? Who knows. But clearly he shouldn't have been out there.

Right.. nothing to do with competitivness or truly believing he was best for the team. It's all has to do with arrogance and un-intelligence. Gotcha.

[BroncoWave]

Right.. nothing to do with competitivness or truly believing he was best for the team. It's all has to do with arrogance and un-intelligence. Gotcha.

If he really believed that him playing was the best thing for the team, he clearly wasn't being objective.

[TXBRONC]

Not only that but as previously mentioned the booing that took place in that game wasnt just about Manning. The fans were pissed off at the entire (aside from CJ who seemed to be the only one who wanted it the most) team and they let them know about it. Yea, i was pissed that Manning didnt run for the first down but that was before i or anyone else knew the severity of his injury.

I don't how anyone could think the frustration was all directed at Manning when it pretty clear that other than couple of players the team was flat.

[BroncoNut]

Carol just bitch-slapped Buff. That was glorious.

In regard to the story:

:shocked:

not really.


I was merely posing another question in response to your question. Wasn't directing any disagreement your way. :)

check this out Joe, smiley face and all at the end of it. what a dufus.

[GEM]

Folks are questioning his core values, toughness and intangibles, for not running for a 1st down I don't think we need hindsight to know the backlash he'd be getting for not playing.

You mean ala Jay Cutler a few years ago in that NFC Championship game?

[underrated29]

If he really believed that him playing was the best thing for the team, he clearly wasn't being objective.



I dont see how you can say you are being objective with your opinion. Manning missed....6? throws? and didnt run for the 1 first down. Everything else he completed or the defense made a play of our guys dropped the ball. What exactly did he do that lost us that game? Cant blame the 11 Bubble Screens on manning. And NOBODY can tell me that is all he can throw when he Overthrew Manny Sanders on 2 deep sideline routes. We did not work the middle of the field. We LITERALLY called a play on 4th down where the route was SHORT OF THE STICKS!!!

How is this mannings fault? or him being objective to hurting the team? or arrogant or anything else?


It was the coaches. I still dont know why people refuse to see it and blame it on gimpy manning. Healthy Brock wouldnt have done better. Tom Brady wouldnt have done better. We know this because the pats destroyed the colts with a Majorly Inferior Offensively talented team. Of course the TY hilton Fiasco did not help either. Neither did the fact that Manning, CJ and like 2 other players seemed to be the only ones actually caring or trying to win the game.

Its not mannings fault that only 5 guys showed up to play and the rest wanted to just quit then play NE.

[Hawgdriver]

If he really believed that him playing was the best thing for the team, he clearly wasn't being objective.

I'm sure he knew it was sketchy. Why do you think the team lacked fire? They knew the ship was capsized.

But if he's going to go to Fox and say, "Coach I'm no good, pull me" he might as well retire on the spot. That's not arrogance, it's grit. It's not realistic to expect gritty players to pull themselves. Fox just didn't have the stones or vision to face down Manning. Either that, or the rift that unraveled at season's end has a more complicated story than we know.

On the other hand, I think most of us would have understood if Fox decided himself that Manning wasn't right and needed to get right, and regardless of how stubborn or "arrogant" Manning might be, he's not going to be a puss and tap out during this supposedly storied season. Give him a month off, and roll the bones with Oz and CJ. I think a bold and intelligent coach would have done this.

[BroncoWave]

I guess you guys are right that no player would take themselves out voluntarily, but if Manning were being objective on how to best help the team win a title, he at the VERY LEAST could have taken some practice off and let Brock handle some of those duties. I know it's not in Manning's DNA never to miss practice though, and while that trait has served him well throughout his career, I think it's a negative in this case.

I will agree though that we needed a coaching staff with some balls who would have taken that decision out of his hands completely. Hopefully we have that now.

[TXBRONC]

He's still getting killed about not running for that 1st down, according to Mike Evans, Vic Lombardi and Nate Lundy, fans are condemning his character to its core. According to this morning show it's not just a few people, it's about half the comments they're getting, they actually seemed shocked at the vitriol.

I'm not sure this Lundy guy is right at least not on a large scale. People wondered why he didn't run for the first down but I don't recall anyone questioning his character.

[Simple Jaded]

You mean ala Jay Cutler a few years ago in that NFC Championship game?

From the sounds of it, yeah.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm not sure this Lundy guy is right at least not on a large scale. People wondered why he didn't run for the first down but I recall anyone question character.

They're referring to the text line, where there's even less sugar-coating, and they mentioned several times about how they feel the text line has been pretty representative of the people as a whole.

Take it for what it's worth, people, and try not get get your feelings hurt (not at you TX).

[Northman]

I'm not sure this Lundy guy is right at least not on a large scale. People wondered why he didn't run for the first down but I recall anyone question character.

Indeed.