Earl Thomas III is no fan of the Broncos

[Denver Native (Carol)]

PHOENIX — It’s preposterous to think about.

In the 2009 draft, the Broncos and coach Josh McDaniels so badly wanted to select Wake Forest cornerback Alphonso Smith they paid a heavy price to get him. The Broncos made a deal with the Seattle Seahawks. The Broncos got the Seahawks’ No. 37 overall pick in the second round in exchange for one of the Broncos’ first-round picks in the following year’s draft.

That 2010 first-round pick turned out to be No. 14 overall. The Seahawks took Earl Thomas III, who is only the best safety in the NFL. Ouch!

Smith, meanwhile, played his last game two years ago. The Broncos traded him after his rookie season to Detroit, where he played 2 1/2 seasons. Double-ouch!

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/01/28/earl-thomas-fan-broncos/32370/

[BroncoWave]

I think playing the "they could have drafted x" game is kinda dumb, especially when it comes after the first round. Every team in the NFL passed on Earl Thomas before he was drafted, so clearly no one knew he would be the star that he has become. Just because he was taken with the pick Denver traded doesn't somehow make us more dumb for not taking him than the other 30 teams who passed on him.

[Northman]

Yep, way to go McDouchnozzel.

[Slick]

McDaniels made a lot of dumb moves, but the Alphonso Smith one might have been the worst.

[Slick]

I think playing the "they could have drafted x" game is kinda dumb, especially when it comes after the first round. Every team in the NFL passed on Earl Thomas before he was drafted, so clearly no one knew he would be the star that he has become. Just because he was taken with the pick Denver traded doesn't somehow make us more dumb for not taking him than the other 30 teams who passed on him.

What? Earl Thomas was drafted 14th overall.

[Buff]

Salt in the wound. Could have been the beginning of a rebuilt defense, but McD decided to overhaul the offense that was already good. Safety was a HUGE monster gigantic need at the time too.

[BroncoWave]

What? Earl Thomas was drafted 14th overall.

Oops, sorry, I see now. Even still, there was no way of knowing that we would have had the 14th pick the next year or who would have been there. I'm not saying the trade for smith was a good one, but I kinda see it as highly irrelevant that Earl Thomas wound up going in the spot we traded. I'm sure when McD traded that pick, he expected Denver to be picking much later than 14th the next year.

[BroncoWave]

Salt in the wound. Could have been the beginning of a rebuilt defense, but McD decided to overhaul the offense that was already good. Safety was a HUGE monster gigantic need at the time too.

That trade was for a defensive player though...so he was trying to rebuild the defense.

[Slick]

Oops, sorry, I see now. Even still, there was no way of knowing that we would have had the 14th pick the next year or who would have been there. I'm not saying the trade for smith was a good one, but I kinda see it as highly irrelevant that Earl Thomas wound up going in the spot we traded. I'm sure when McD traded that pick, he expected Denver to be picking much later than 14th the next year.

He traded a first round pick for a second. Completely idiotic move on his part. The fact that Smith sucked out loud only made it worse.

I agree with you in the fact that it's easy to criticize draft picks in hindsight, but the Smith pick and the move to make that pick are indefensible IMO.

[smith49]

McDaniels made a lot of dumb moves, but the Alphonso Smith one might have been the worst.




That he did. But he also made some good moves. I don't really understand this whole line of thinking. I mean, yeah, we traded a pick to get a player that was a bust. Sooo? It happens. How is it on Denver that Seattle ended up drafting a guy that blossomed. No one saw that coming, not even Seattle. I could probably point to many times Denver got it right, or rather, got lucky....TD, Rod Smith, and so on and so forth.

[BroncoWave]

He traded a first round pick for a second. Completely idiotic move on his part. The fact that Smith sucked out loud only made it worse.

I agree with you in the fact that it's easy to criticize draft picks in hindsight, but the Smith pick and the move to make that pick are indefensible IMO.

And I'm not defending the trade. I just don't think it's fair to use the fact that Earl Thomas was picked a year after he made that trade as some sort of ammo against it.

[Slick]

That he did. But he also made some good moves. I don't really understand this whole line of thinking. I mean, yeah, we traded a pick to get a player that was a bust. Sooo? It happens. How is it on Denver that Seattle ended up drafting a guy that blossomed. No one saw that coming, not even Seattle. I could probably point to many times Denver got it right, or rather, got lucky....TD, Rod Smith, and so on and so forth.

I understand the draft is a crapshot. See my second post. I'm going to vacate this thread. I don't want to rehash this crap again.

[BroncoWave]

And on the other hand, had Alphonso Smith wound up being a star, not a single person would have had an issue with giving up a future first rounder to get him. It's just so easy to criticize draft trades and picks in hindsight. Clearly McD thought he was going to be a star with the hefty ransom he gave up to get him. It didn't work out, but those are the breaks sometimes.

[Northman]

Salt in the wound. Could have been the beginning of a rebuilt defense, but McD decided to overhaul the offense that was already good. Safety was a HUGE monster gigantic need at the time too.

Yep. ******* Capt Clueless right there.

[Northman]

He traded a first round pick for a second. Completely idiotic move on his part. The fact that Smith sucked out loud only made it worse.

I agree with you in the fact that it's easy to criticize draft picks in hindsight, but the Smith pick and the move to make that pick are indefensible IMO.

Not too mention taking Dick Quinn in the 3rd to which i believe he moved up to get there too. :lol:

[Buff]

And on the other hand, had Alphonso Smith wound up being a star, not a single person would have had an issue with giving up a future first rounder to get him. It's just so easy to criticize draft trades and picks in hindsight. Clearly McD thought he was going to be a star with the hefty ransom he gave up to get him. It didn't work out, but those are the breaks sometimes.

Actually, the Alphonso Smith deal was indefensible even at the time because you can never trade a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick straight up. Package some picks to move up, maybe, but a 1st for a 2nd straight up? You'll lose that trade 90% of the time.

[BroncoWave]

Actually, the Alphonso Smith deal was indefensible even at the time because you can never trade a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick straight up. Package some picks to move up, maybe, but a 1st for a 2nd straight up? You'll lose that trade 90% of the time.

The value of a future first round pick is less than that of a current one though. If there is a guy who you really think is just a future star who slipped to the early second round, I can see pulling the trigger on that move. It was the # 5 pick in the second round, so it was pretty much the same as a late first rounder. Let's say denver had wound up being a playoff team and picked like 25th. Then the trade would have been a future 25th pick for a current 37th pick. That's not bad value.

[BroncoWave]

I would imagine this was McD's mindset before making that trade. He's probably thinking you know what, I am taking over a team that just barely missed the playoffs the last few years, we have some good pieces, and I think I will be able to push them into the playoffs this year. (any coach worth a crap would think this). So he's probably expecting to be picking in the 20s next year. He sees a chance to move up to 37 (which is just barely outside of the first round) and just has to give up what he thinks will be a late first rounder next year.

I'm not saying it's the best logic ever, but I just don't think it's the abortion people make it out to be. With the information an thought process he probably had at the time, I can see the logic in the move.

[chazoe60]

Ever look at Earl Thomas close? He looks like he has fetal alcohol syndrome.

[Hawgdriver]

Salt in the wound. Could have been the beginning of a rebuilt defense, but McD decided to overhaul the offense that was already good. Safety was a HUGE monster gigantic need at the time too.

Well, at least now we are living the Dream.

[tripp]

Sad that a Broncos scout has left Earl Thomas with a poor impression of our franchise. But this is a business, and Earl Thomas needs to realize as a future NFL player, you are an investment, and it's strictly business. But with that being said, I'd have a bad impression on the Broncos after that if I was Earl.

[Simple Jaded]

Devils advocate is pointless in McDaniels case, you didn't need hindsight to see his mistakes, dude was just a phenomenal failure. His coaching wasn't any better.

[dogfish]

Actually, the Alphonso Smith deal was indefensible even at the time because you can never trade a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick straight up. Package some picks to move up, maybe, but a 1st for a 2nd straight up? You'll lose that trade 90% of the time.

dude. . . forget the value aspect of it. . . that heinous bullshit was primarily indefensible because the moron gave up a first rounder for a short, slow corner. . . the guy had a nickelback skill set. . . total fiasco from the get-go. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Salt in the wound. Could have been the beginning of a rebuilt defense, but McD decided to overhaul the offense that was already good. Safety was a HUGE monster gigantic need at the time too.

Come now Buff McD had that all figured out. He drafted McBath!

[Jsteve01]

So funny, I remember debating the smith pick with zam at the freak. There are certain numbers that really matter for corners. His shuttle and cone numbers were not just bad. They were horrid. He had great ball skills but none of the fast twitch he needed to make it work at the next level. And yes the earl Thomas pick is a valid convo because everyone had him as the top selection at a position we were desperate for. Don't even get me started on passing on orakpo, and Matthews

[EastCoastBronco]

Does anyone actually think that if Earl the Pearl had been drafted by Jacksonville or Oakland that he would have blossomed into the player he is today?
Coaching and scheme is at least 75% of how great a defensive player can be.
Talent and luck will only get you so far in a $hitty scheme.
I don't think he would have gotten that in Denver.
He needs to just shut the **** up and be glad he was drafted where he was.
To quote Loren Adams ... "What is understood, need not be discussed."

[7DnBrnc53]

Not too mention taking Dick Quinn in the 3rd to which i believe he moved up to get there too. :lol:

Actually, Quinn came at the end of Round 2, which makes the pick all the more worse.

[BroncoWave]

So funny, I remember debating the smith pick with zam at the freak. There are certain numbers that really matter for corners. His shuttle and cone numbers were not just bad. They were horrid. He had great ball skills but none of the fast twitch he needed to make it work at the next level. And yes the earl Thomas pick is a valid convo because everyone had him as the top selection at a position we were desperate for. Don't even get me started on passing on orakpo, and Matthews

Thomas was drafted a year after that trade was made. No one had any way of knowing that a top safety would be available with their first pick the next year. The fact that Earl Thomas was taken with the pick we traded is completely irrelevant as far I'm concerned.

[TXBRONC]

The value of a future first round pick is less than that of a current one though. If there is a guy who you really think is just a future star who slipped to the early second round, I can see pulling the trigger on that move. It was the # 5 pick in the second round, so it was pretty much the same as a late first rounder. Let's say denver had wound up being a playoff team and picked like 25th. Then the trade would have been a future 25th pick for a current 37th pick. That's not bad value.

Before his second draft he made the statement to that he didn't have enough time to prepare for his first draft. So what you're saying isn't in line with what McDaniels said.

[Ravage!!!]

I believe the GM he (McDork) was trading with at the time has since stated that they were willing to throw in a 6th or 7th in and McDaniels was like "No, don't worry aboutit"... and didn't take the additional picks. I don't know in which move that was, because he moved up a lot to pick bad players, but the GM McDick was dealing with was just shaking his head like he was confused and dumbstruck with such an idiotic response.

[TXBRONC]

dude. . . forget the value aspect of it. . . that heinous bullshit was primarily indefensible because the moron gave up a first rounder for a short, slow corner. . . the guy had a nickelback skill set. . . total fiasco from the get-go. . .

Dog it was not a fiasco is was a two year cluster _________!

[Simple Jaded]

Thomas was drafted a year after that trade was made. No one had any way of knowing that a top safety would be available with their first pick the next year. The fact that Earl Thomas was taken with the pick we traded is completely irrelevant as far I'm concerned.

It's irrelevant, but only because McDaniels had his sights set on drafting Tebow, God only knows how he would have screwed up the 14th had he not screwed it up the year before. And I think it's fairly obvious that he would have ****** up that pick.

[TXBRONC]

It's irrelevant, but only because McDaniels had his sights set on drafting Tebow, God only knows how he would have screwed up the 14th had he not screwed it up the year before. And I think it's fairly obvious that he would have ****** up that pick.

Out of all the drafts picks that McDaniels made only two remain on the team.

[Simple Jaded]

Out of all the drafts picks that McDaniels made only two remain on the team.

I hope Bruton starts next season, btw, I thought he was dead weight but he played pretty well when given time on defense. I just think it's too hard to find an impact S to be using cap space and premium draft picks on them.

[dogfish]

Dog it was not a fiasco is was a two year cluster _________!

clusterfiasco. . .

[Cugel]

McDaniels made a lot of dumb moves, but the Alphonso Smith one might have been the worst.

It's important to remember that he didn't just draft Alphonso Smith, he traded a first round pick to move up and get him, then discarded him after his first season because he was a total bust. It's beyond horrible drafting. Competent GMs just don't do that.

You might whiff on a guy you thought would be good, but normally you don't trade a first round pick to get a 2nd round position player. That's just insane.

Then all the draft picks he wasted maneuvering around to get Tim Tebow. :sigh:

The Jay Cutler trade should have been a blockbuster Hershel Walker type trade, because teams desperately wanted a young potential Pro Bowl QB (which Cutler was the year he was traded). Denver should have come away with at least 3 #1 picks or a top ten pick in the draft plus another couple of picks. It should have been the building blocks to jump start the franchise for years!

Instead it was a total disaster. McMoron first refused to bother to even negotiate with teams like the Dolphins or Jets who moved up to #5 to get Mark Sanchez, both of whom might have offered more than 2 #1 picks, or higher picks (Dolphins had a top 5 pick), because they didn't have an established QB to throw in for trade.

Instead it all came down to whether McMoron preferred Kyle Orton or Jason Campbell of Washington, neither of whom were any good. McMoron chose Orton, closed the deal with Chicago and then threw away the #1 pick he got selecting Robert Ayers instead of Clay Matthews, etc., etc.

[LTC Pain]

Screw Earl Thomas and the horse he rode in on :salute:

[Cugel]

I believe the GM he (McDork) was trading with at the time has since stated that they were willing to throw in a 6th or 7th in and McDaniels was like "No, don't worry aboutit"... and didn't take the additional picks. I don't know in which move that was, because he moved up a lot to pick bad players, but the GM McDick was dealing with was just shaking his head like he was confused and dumbstruck with such an idiotic response.

You didn't remember the true horror correctly. What happened was the the Broncos were all set to draft Knowshon Moreno with the #12 pick of the draft, but everybody with a brain thought they were going to take the obvious choice - LB Brian Orakpo. The Redskins called up and offered Denver a 3rd round pick to swap places with them - #13 + a 3rd rounder in exchange for #12. McMoron told them "Don't worry, you're going to get your guy."

There was a article in the Washington Post years later about this in which the Redskins GM was laughing at how stupid McMoron was. They simply couldn't believe it in the Redskins war room that anybody could be that clueless.

Of course, ultimately it wouldn't have mattered at all. McMoron would simply have wasted that pick anyway. He probably would have used it to trade up to get Tim Tebow even earlier or something.

[TXBRONC]

You didn't remember the true horror correctly. What happened was the the Broncos were all set to draft Knowshon Moreno with the #12 pick of the draft, but everybody with a brain thought they were going to take the obvious choice - LB Brian Orakpo. The Redskins called up and offered Denver a 3rd round pick to swap places with them - #13 + a 3rd rounder in exchange for #12. McMoron told them "Don't worry, you're going to get your guy."

There was a article in the Washington Post years later about this in which the Redskins GM was laughing at how stupid McMoron was. They simply couldn't believe it in the Redskins war room that anybody could be that clueless.

Of course, ultimately it wouldn't have mattered at all. McMoron would simply have wasted that pick anyway. He probably would have used it to trade up to get Tim Tebow even earlier or something.

Thanks for the reminder. IIRC the Redskins were worried that Denver would ask for more. It was still astronomically stupid that he would take the initial offer. So much for him being the smartest man in the room.