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View Full Version : If Peyton Manning returns, Kubiak 'looking forward to learning that style'



Denver Native (Carol)
01-22-2015, 02:22 PM
Although the Broncos have their new head coach in place, status quo rules when it comes to their starting quarterback: Peyton Manning has a few weeks to decide whether to return for his 18th NFL season.

"I just think the more time he can get away, he'll be able to come away from a decision with the best decision," Executive Vice President/General Manager John Elway said.

But if Manning opts to return, he'll find a coach willing to modify his tactics to suit the record-breaking quarterback's skill set.

"Look what he continues to do," Gary Kubiak said. "You know, the offense Peyton runs, he's tremendous at it, back there in the gun controlling the game, controlling the line of scrimmage. Nobody has ever done it better and he's the master at it.

"Actually, I'm looking forward to learning that style and that system that he has."

rest, plus video - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/If-Peyton-Manning-returns-Kubiak-looking-forward-to-learning-that-style/f64b431b-5262-4afa-a93c-0463b6ada030

tripp
01-22-2015, 02:37 PM
It will be refreshing to see what kind of plays Kubiak and Manning can mesh together and create a play book out of. I think anything is better than the same plays we've beaten the living days lights out of for the past 2 years.

Joel
01-22-2015, 02:55 PM
I know what Kubiak meant, but—MAN, I wish he hadn't phrased it that way. It practically invites all the people dismissing him as an old boys club retread to claim our HC will run a remedial offense next year because his success depends on a mobile bootlegging QB and all he has is an aging immobile Bionic QB. On the other hand, when the bar's set low, rocketing over it is that much more impressive.

Ravage!!!
01-22-2015, 03:38 PM
I know what Kubiak meant, but—MAN, I wish he hadn't phrased it that way. It practically invites all the people dismissing him as an old boys club retread to claim our HC will run a remedial offense next year because his success depends on a mobile bootlegging QB and all he has is an aging immobile Bionic QB. On the other hand, when the bar's set low, rocketing over it is that much more impressive.

What "low" bar are you referring to?

Actually, I'm confused about most of this that you have typed. What "remedial" offense are you talking about? What mobile QBs did Kubiak have that showed so much success in Houston? Was Elway really that mobile during the Super Bowl years? Mobility is NOT a must i the system. It was an addition....a garnish if you will. Certainly not the main course.

WJK
01-22-2015, 04:59 PM
I would imagine that Kubiak will integrate the pistol back into the offense more than we saw last season. It's a good compromise between Peyton's preferred shotgun formations and the single back that Kubiak will eventually want to run.

Joel
01-22-2015, 05:44 PM
What "low" bar are you referring to?

Actually, I'm confused about most of this that you have typed. What "remedial" offense are you talking about? What mobile QBs did Kubiak have that showed so much success in Houston? Was Elway really that mobile during the Super Bowl years? Mobility is NOT a must i the system. It was an addition....a garnish if you will. Certainly not the main course.
Oh, I completely agree, but how many people here and in national media have been beating that drum: That Kubes (or maybe the whole ZBS?) is just a one-trick Bronco that can't succeed without a first ballot HoFer throwing and running the ball when a HoF-DESERVING RB's not doing the latter (which would actually make it a two-trick Bronco)? That our new HC simply doesn't know HOW to run an effective passing game with a traditional pocket passer (e.g. Griese, Schaub, Flacco) and Manning doesn't have the physical abilities without which Kubiaks system MUST fail?

The COACH saying he's looking forward to "learning" the PLAYERS style and system just feeds into that narrative. Again, I get what he means (what offensive guru and ex-QB wouldn't be drooling over the chance to coach Manning and find out up close and personal what his mind, mechanics and work ethic can achieve; for a guy who lost is last job because an awful QB was the sole flaw in his championship roster, this must've been irresistable.) But I'm not one of the many calling him a gimmicky, failed good ol' boy hire, nor certain he'll "fail again."

Wonder what they'll say if all this ends in a championship or few though? "ANYONE could win a SB with Elway or Manning" wouldn't work, because three others tried, but couldn't. I'm not gonna sit here and guarantee lots of championships, much less immediately, because of how hard it is to win ANY—but the last time I felt this confident was the last time Kubes was on our coaching staff. And this time he won't have to force-feed his QB a work ethic nor love of the game.

BroncoWave
01-22-2015, 06:44 PM
I would imagine that Kubiak will integrate the pistol back into the offense more than we saw last season. It's a good compromise between Peyton's preferred shotgun formations and the single back that Kubiak will eventually want to run.

Welcome to the boards! Peyton has run a little pistol here so I would definitely expect to see some of that. Whatever Kubes puts in, our offense really needs a breath of fresh air. We just got way too damn predictable this year.

WJK
01-22-2015, 07:53 PM
Welcome to the boards! Peyton has run a little pistol here so I would definitely expect to see some of that. Whatever Kubes puts in, our offense really needs a breath of fresh air. We just got way too damn predictable this year.

Thanks a lot, good to be here! I agree that we were far too predictable not just last year but in 2013 as well. Only in 2013 defenses couldn't stop us even if they knew what was coming, save for Seattle... Hopefully we can put ourself in a good position where teams won't stack the box or play just the pass on a 3rd and 3 type scenario. I've also been disappointed in the lack of stretch runs, tosses, and misdirections over the last three years, but I expect Kubiak to change that.

Joel
01-22-2015, 08:34 PM
Thanks a lot, good to be here! I agree that we were far too predictable not just last year but in 2013 as well. Only in 2013 defenses couldn't stop us even if they knew what was coming, save for Seattle... Hopefully we can put ourself in a good position where teams won't stack the box or play just the pass on a 3rd and 3 type scenario. I've also been disappointed in the lack of stretch runs, tosses, and misdirections over the last three years, but I expect Kubiak to change that.
To be fair, we did try some stretches last year and early this year: We just executed them INCREDIBLY badly so the front seven usually tore through our line like it was rotted cheese cloth to make a tackle for loss. Often the second or third tackle; whatever his other flaws, Ball broke a lot of tackles this year, just as Moreno last year—but on the wrong side of the line. There's a reason 2013 was the only time since Fox got here that injuries didn't promote our 2nd or even 3rd string RB to starter by midseason: Same reason McGahee led the league in yards after contact in 2011.

Anderson led the league in yards after contact nearly every week he started this year, and that's fine as long as it happens at the second level (at which point there are few tacklers left and long TDs become very likely) but I'm REALLY looking forward to Kubes and Denny putting an end to this Swiss cheese line thing, and bet Mannings legs are, too.

Simple Jaded
01-23-2015, 01:29 AM
**** the ******* pistol, it's garbage. I was really hoping the Kubiak hire meant they would finally get Manning to take a snap from center more than just a handful of plays a game.

ShaneFalco
01-23-2015, 01:53 AM
The pistol isnt garbage if you run other formations with it. Instead of just a sole pistol formation.

Simple Jaded
01-23-2015, 03:01 AM
The pistol isnt garbage if you run other formations with it. Instead of just a sole pistol formation.

A few times a game, max, it's not a system worth building around. The problem with using it here and there is it makes the run more predictable, and that's been the biggest complaint about Denver's offense last year, too predictable.

It's pointless, put the QB under center.

TXBRONC
01-23-2015, 08:17 AM
**** the ******* pistol, it's garbage. I was really hoping the Kubiak hire meant they would finally get Manning to take a snap from center more than just a handful of plays a game.

It seemed to me Denver did pretty well running from the pistol.

Simple Jaded
01-23-2015, 01:33 PM
It seemed to me Denver did pretty well running from the pistol.

I don't remember that at all, but the point is the gimmick gets less effective the more you use it. It's a far less dynamic Wildcat, a gimmick for coaches that are too ******* in love with their Godawful zone-read/run-and-shooting abomination offenses, timing is everything. The worst part is it's utterly pointless, put the QB under center, this isn't a 3rd rate college program.

TXBRONC
01-23-2015, 01:35 PM
I don't remember that at all, but the point is the gimmick gets less effective the more you use it. It's a far less dynamic Wildcat, a gimmick for coaches that are too ******* in love with their Godawful zone-read/run-and-shooting abomination offenses, timing is everything. The worst part is it's utterly pointless, put the QB under center, this isn't a 3rd rate college program.

Denver would use it to run the ball they seemed to make positive yards rushing from that alignment.

BroncoJoe
01-23-2015, 01:51 PM
I don't remember that at all, but the point is the gimmick gets less effective the more you use it. It's a far less dynamic Wildcat, a gimmick for coaches that are too ******* in love with their Godawful zone-read/run-and-shooting abomination offenses, timing is everything. The worst part is it's utterly pointless, put the QB under center, this isn't a 3rd rate college program.

lol.

NightTrainLayne
01-23-2015, 01:58 PM
Regarding the pistol, I have no idea if Kubiak will incorporate that aspect, buy Manning said on several occasions that he really liked it because he could check to a run either direction without making the exchange with the running back difficult if the RB was lined up opposite of the direction he wanted to check to. Along, with being in a preferred position for himself for a pass play. It had nothing to do with any zone/read principles. At least as far as zone/read would involve Manning running.

Joel
01-23-2015, 04:23 PM
I don't remember that at all, but the point is the gimmick gets less effective the more you use it. It's a far less dynamic Wildcat, a gimmick for coaches that are too ******* in love with their Godawful zone-read/run-and-shooting abomination offenses, timing is everything. The worst part is it's utterly pointless, put the QB under center, this isn't a 3rd rate college program.
The Run 'n Shoot and zone read offenses have almost NOTHING in common. I mean, they're both offenses, but the first is predicated primarily on deep passes and the second merely on an updated version of QB option runs. There's a superficial resemblance in that the Run 'n Shoots reliance on deep passes spreads out the D enough to open things up for a backup runnng game while the zone read tries to spread the D by forcing a LB to spy the QB, but the focus, design, execution and play calls are almost entirely unrelated.

That's why zone reads are great in the red zone but have trouble reaching it, while the Run 'n Shoot races to the red zone but has trouble going further. Hating two completely different offenses doesn't make them identical, and treating them as identical BECAUSE one hates both suggests biased rather than reasoned analysis.

TXBRONC
01-23-2015, 05:28 PM
Regarding the pistol, I have no idea if Kubiak will incorporate that aspect, buy Manning said on several occasions that he really liked it because he could check to a run either direction without making the exchange with the running back difficult if the RB was lined up opposite of the direction he wanted to check to. Along, with being in a preferred position for himself for a pass play. It had nothing to do with any zone/read principles. At least as far as zone/read would involve Manning running.

I'm not sure it could be a staple of the ground attack but it sure seems like Denver used with fair amount of success from a rushing standpoint.

Joel
01-23-2015, 07:53 PM
It's an interesting debate, because I contend a big part of our offensive problem since last years SB was having many FORMATIONS but only a handful of staple PLAYS, each run exclusively out its own formation. If one formation is ALWAYS the same 2-3 run plays, NEVER a pass (and vice versa) defenses can just key on formations, however many used; all having lots of formations does then is create a lot of complexity (and thus risks of screwing up execution) for the linemen forced to set up the play. Running many kinds of plays out of a few formations is both simpler for us and less obvious for opponents.

I expect, and certainly hope, Kubiak and Dennisons offense will be more like that, in which case I won't worry much about which particular formations we use, because I'll be pretty confident most of them will be well suited to both passes AND runs rather than sending out 3 OTs and a pair of TEs out of necessity on runs, then trotting out an empty backfield set to "catch the D expecting a run" on 3rd and 1. I'm also fairly certain our new coaches realize better than Gase that calling 50 straight runs, then 50 straight passes, is technically "balanced" but NOT "mixing it up" or "keeping the D guessing."

Simple Jaded
01-23-2015, 08:44 PM
Regarding the pistol, I have no idea if Kubiak will incorporate that aspect, buy Manning said on several occasions that he really liked it because he could check to a run either direction without making the exchange with the running back difficult if the RB was lined up opposite of the direction he wanted to check to. Along, with being in a preferred position for himself for a pass play. It had nothing to do with any zone/read principles. At least as far as zone/read would involve Manning running.

Serenity Now!

dogfish
01-24-2015, 06:22 PM
Serenity Now!

:lol: :lol: