Bengals Mike Brown Blocking Vance Joseph Promotion

[Buff]

Mike Brown - always keepin it classy...



Source: Bengals won't let secondary coach Joseph go to Broncos as DC

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-cincinnati-bengals-vance-joseph-defensive-coordinator-012015

[TimHippo]

Mike Brown - always keepin it classy...



Source: Bengals won't let secondary coach Joseph go to Broncos as DC

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-cincinnati-bengals-vance-joseph-defensive-coordinator-012015

They probably want picks.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

That's against the league rules, isn't it?

[Buff]

That's against the league rules, isn't it?

No, it's an unwritten rule that teams release coaches from their contracts for promotions... But they technically don't have to.

[elsid13]

Why screw an employee?

[Buff]

Why screw an employee?

Because you are Mike Brown and have made a career out of making terrible decisions

Where is King? I demand answers!

[TimHippo]

Why screw an employee?

They gain draft picks from the Broncos. Obviously Joseph would be disgruntled if he stayed. They have every intention of letting him go but are greedy.

[TXBRONC]

They gain draft picks from the Broncos. Obviously Joseph would be disgruntled if he stayed. They have every intention of letting him go but are greedy.

I wouldn't think Elway would be willing to give up picks to bring in a coordinator.

[TimHippo]

I wouldn't think Elway would be willing to give up picks to bring in a coordinator.

But that's what the Bengals want. There's probably some verbal agreement between Elway and Joseph so Bengals are taking advantage of it.

I can't see the pick being top 3 since it's just for a D.C. It will probably end up being a 5th round or 6th round pick.

[Buff]

They gain draft picks from the Broncos. Obviously Joseph would be disgruntled if he stayed. They have every intention of letting him go but are greedy.

Ain't nobody trading draft picks for a first time coordinator. Even Mike Brown knows that and his brain is tiny.

[underrated29]

I read a thing from espn saying they have granted his release....but I'm not sure where or anything else on it. Satirical maybe? I thought it was legit.

[TimHippo]

Ain't nobody trading draft picks for a first time coordinator. Even Mike Brown knows that and his brain is tiny.

That would be the only reason why you would not release him in this situation.

[TXBRONC]

But that's what the Bengals want. There's probably some verbal agreement between Elway and Joseph so Bengals are taking advantage of it.

I can't see the pick being top 3 since it's just for a D.C. It will probably end up being a 5th round or 6th round pick.

Just because they want it doesn't mean they'll get it. I know teams have given up draft picks to sign away another team's head coach but have never seen this for a coordinator.

[NightTrainLayne]

This will play well for the Bengals. Millionaire, white owner, won't allow his black employee to get a huge promotion, keeping him in indentured servitude, in a job he no longer likes.

[DenBronx]

King....yeah your football team just pulled a scumbag move.

[VonDoom]

I hope we don't give up any draft picks for him, that's for sure.

I was coming around to the idea of him as DC, but if nothing else, hopefully this expands the search already. It sounds like we were set on him, and if he's not allowed to come, we should be putting out feelers elsewhere. At the very least, we can call Cincy's bluff.

[underrated29]

We won't. I'm telling you I read something from espn saying that they have granted his release. He is free to go and be our DC.

[TXBRONC]

I hope we don't give up any draft picks for him, that's for sure.

I was coming around to the idea of him as DC, but if nothing else, hopefully this expands the search already. It sounds like we were set on him, and if he's not allowed to come, we should be putting out feelers elsewhere. At the very least, we can call Cincy's bluff.

I just can see Elway giving up picks for a coordinator and as Buff pointe out one that will be a coordinator for the first time in career.

[TimHippo]

I hope we don't give up any draft picks for him, that's for sure.

I was coming around to the idea of him as DC, but if nothing else, hopefully this expands the search already. It sounds like we were set on him, and if he's not allowed to come, we should be putting out feelers elsewhere. At the very least, we can call Cincy's bluff.

Yeah, I don't mind going with someone else. Not like Cincy's D is all that anyway. Sucks for Joseph but I'm sure Kubiak can find someone else.

[Ziggy]

The Broncos did the same thing with Richard Smith when Dennis Allen went to the Raiders.

[TXBRONC]

We won't. I'm telling you I read something from espn saying that they have granted his release. He is free to go and be our DC.

Earlier you said you wasn't sure.

[VonDoom]

We won't. I'm telling you I read something from espn saying that they have granted his release. He is free to go and be our DC.

Haven't seen that report. Everyone on Twitter is saying that he's not allowed to leave.

Also:



ESPN Denver @ESPN_Denver · 59m 59 minutes ago

Per our own @CecilLammey- w/Vance Joseph unable to get out of his contract, #Broncos LB Coach Richard Smith is favorite to become new DC.

Nothing wrong with promoting from within, but come on, at least look at the other guys out there.

[Jsteve01]

Shit. Richard Smith bombed as a DC previously he's another guy like Slowick and Donatell whos a fantastic position coach and chitty coordinator

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 43m

So @NFL demands teams interview African-American candidates for HC jobs, yet gives teams right to deny advancement of minority candidates?

[TimHippo]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 43m

So @NFL demands teams interview African-American candidates for HC jobs, yet gives teams right to deny advancement of minority candidates?

Has nothing to do with that Klis. Stop playing the racecard and making a mountain out of a molehill.

[underrated29]

Earlier you said you're wasn't sure.



I wasn't sure where I saw it but thinking hard on it it was not from a satirical site like the onion or what have you. Seems like there are conflicting reports and that the bengals are Not going to release him. I just saw a tweeter post about us considering some other guy for DC.

Ugh.

No Schwartz or wade? I don't get it

[underrated29]

Haven't seen that report. Everyone on Twitter is saying that he's not allowed to leave.

Also:



Nothing wrong with promoting from within, but come on, at least look at the other guys out there.



This is what I just saw. Not good. Hopefully what I saw is correct

[Rick]

I really want Kubes as HC but a guy like Smith as DC just has Shanny part 2.

[Buff]

The Broncos did the same thing with Richard Smith when Dennis Allen went to the Raiders.

In fairness, I don't think it's exactly the same when you're talking about hiring multiple members of the staff in the same offseason. But it's a fair point - not totally unprecedented. The Bengals did it fairly recently too.



This isn't the first time that Cincinnati has denied permission for an assistant coach to leave for a promotion elsewhere (that's not a head coach position). Cincinnati denied the Eagles an opportunity to interview former defensive backs coach Kevin Coyle in 2011, before he was allowed to take the defensive coordinator spot in Miami in 2012.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/1/20/7863941/cincinnati-bengals-not-allowing-vance-joseph-to-leave-for-the-denver

[G_Money]

It better not be Smith.

[G_Money]

I still have time to tie my optimism up in a burlap sack with some kittens and toss it in the river. NO SMITH. :tsk: It's a premier job. We can (and should) do much much better.

[chazoe60]

What a bunch of horseshit. The Bengals organization is stupid and short sighted, no wonder they haven't won a playoff since Grunge was popular.

[I Eat Staples]

Ugh, Richard Smith as DC? Reminds me of Don Martindale...

[Poet]

Mike Brown - always keepin it classy...



Source: Bengals won't let secondary coach Joseph go to Broncos as DC

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-cincinnati-bengals-vance-joseph-defensive-coordinator-012015

I'm sorry. He's a ******* dick and I hate him.

[CoachChaz]

I believe this is the second time Brown has pulled this stunt. Didn't he do the same with Coyle?

[Ziggy]

The only one that I've seen report Smith as the favorite is Cecil Lammey. I'll worry about it when a credible source reports it.

[Joel]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 43m

So @NFL demands teams interview African-American candidates for HC jobs, yet gives teams right to deny advancement of minority candidates?
Great point; where do HCs usually come from? Coordinators, but if assistants aren't allowed to take coordinator jobs because they'd leave the team, how's that going to happen?

What if Kubes had turned us down and Joseph was the only HC candidate left we'd interviewed? We'd have to interview and hire someone else anyway, and to Hell with the Rooney Rule?

For that matter, why bother granting permission to interview a guy they won't let leave anyway?

[TimHippo]

Great point; where do HCs usually come from? Coordinators, but if assistants aren't allowed to take coordinator jobs because they'd leave the team, how's that going to happen?

What if Kubes had turned us down and Joseph was the only HC candidate left we'd interviewed? We'd have to interview and hire someone else anyway, and to Hell with the Rooney Rule?

For that matter, why bother granting permission to interview a guy they won't let leave anyway?

Sounds like they never really had any intention of hiring Joseph as the head coach. They already had Kubiak lined up for HC and really were only using the interview to fulfill the Rooney Rule and as a DC interview for Jospeh since Kubiak and Joseph worked together for a year in Houston.

Even if Kubiak had turned us down I seriously doubt that Elway would have hired such a low profile inexperienced guy for head coach if the goal was to have an upgrade on John Fox so that the Broncos could win the Super Bowl.

[Timmy!]

**** that, we must do better.

[VonDoom]

The only one that I've seen report Smith as the favorite is Cecil Lammey. I'll worry about it when a credible source reports it.

Yeah, this is a good point. Might be much ado about nothing as far as Smith is concerned

[MileHighCrew]

What a bunch of horseshit. The Bengals organization is stupid and short sighted, no wonder they haven't won a playoff since Grunge was popular.

Please don't tell my ipod grunge isn't popular anymore. It wont feel like one of the cool ipod then.......

Hire Schwartz

[Jsteve01]

The only one that I've seen report Smith as the favorite is Cecil Lammey. I'll worry about it when a credible source reports it.

Yeah, this is a good point. Might be much ado about nothing as far as Smith is concerned. I can't see it, and Kubes already fired him once

[TXBRONC]

The Broncos did the same thing with Richard Smith when Dennis Allen went to the Raiders.

Was Smith the only staff member that Allen tried to take with him?

[CoachChaz]

Please don't tell my ipod grunge isn't popular anymore. It wont feel like one of the cool ipod then.......

Hire Schwartz

Yeah...I want to see the reaction on the faces of guys like Ware, Ward and Talib when Schwartz tells then to carry him off the field.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah...I want to see the reaction on the faces of guys like Ware, Ward and Talib when Schwartz tells then to carry him off the field.

That would be funny and since we play the NFC North this year it could very well happen if Schwartz becomes our defensive coordinator.

[Joel]

Sounds like they never really had any intention of hiring Joseph as the head coach. They already had Kubiak lined up for HC and really were only using the interview to fulfill the Rooney Rule and as a DC interview for Jospeh since Kubiak and Joseph worked together for a year in Houston.

Even if Kubiak had turned us down I seriously doubt that Elway would have hired such a low profile inexperienced guy for head coach if the goal was to have an upgrade on John Fox so that the Broncos could win the Super Bowl.
You're probably right on all points, it's just the principle of the thing: What if we HAD offered him the HC job instead of just DC? Still a promotion; would Cincy have refused that, too, and to Hell with the Rooney Rule? I dunno, refusing to free a black guy on the grounds he's too valuable a property is a weird way to celebrate MLK Day.

[Lancane]

Someone needs to take to Twitter and tell John (Elway) how porous a decision hiring Smith would be and would literally undermine this new regime with the fans. Elway is a good G.M., but his ear is not always to the ground. I can name ten available candidates off the top of my head that are better choices both proven and/or deserving of a shot. Hiring Smith to me is like the hiring of DeCamillis, simply picking someone familiar without doing the leg work.

This move would literally be the one that makes me question Elway once more.

[MileHighCrew]

Yeah...I want to see the reaction on the faces of guys like Ware, Ward and Talib when Schwartz tells then to carry him off the field.

If any Broncos coaches are being carried off the field, chance are I'll be screaming my face off, super happy and wont care what face they make :)

[Buff]

If any Broncos coaches are being carried off the field, chance are I'll be screaming my face off, super happy and wont care what face they make :)

Even if it's a regular season victory over Buffalo?

[NightTrainLayne]

You're probably right on all points, it's just the principle of the thing: What if we HAD offered him the HC job instead of just DC? Still a promotion; would Cincy have refused that, too, and to Hell with the Rooney Rule? I dunno, refusing to free a black guy on the grounds he's too valuable a property is a weird way to celebrate MLK Day.

I don't think that they can deny it if it's for a Head Coaching job. I seem to remember that being the only promotion that couldn't be denied.

[silkamilkamonico]

Is he still being blocked? That's a good thing, it will force Kubiak to look for someone new and hopefully experienced. I am hearing so much about offense from this staff that it reminds me of years past when we kept taking defense for granted every single year.

[Buff]

I don't think that they can deny it if it's for a Head Coaching job. I seem to remember that being the only promotion that couldn't be denied.

That's what they said on Mike & Mike this morning, teams can't block promotions to head coach, which I was unaware of previously.

[Lancane]

I don't think that they can deny it if it's for a Head Coaching job. I seem to remember that being the only promotion that couldn't be denied.

I think it has something to do with remaining time on a contract and a few other variables as well. There was some talk about this when Detroit denied allowing teams to interview Bob Cooter.

[Lancane]

Is he still being blocked? That's a good thing, it will force Kubiak to look for someone new and hopefully experienced. I am hearing so much about offense from this staff that it reminds me of years past when we kept taking defense for granted every single year.

Except that now there is a rumor that Rick Smith who Kubiak fired in Houston and was pathetic as a Defensive Coordinator and is on Denver's staff will be promoted to the position. So while you think it's a good thing, it might make Denver take a lesser ideal candidate for the job and then you'll be pissed off.

[Joel]

I don't think that they can deny it if it's for a Head Coaching job. I seem to remember that being the only promotion that couldn't be denied.
News to me, but OK. So Joseph as HC and Kubes as "executive consultant" or whatever the Hell the Jets branded Parcells? :tongue:

[silkamilkamonico]

Except that now there is a rumor that Rick Smith who Kubiak fired in Houston and was pathetic as a Defensive Coordinator and is on Denver's staff will be promoted to the position. So while you think it's a good thing, it might make Denver take a lesser ideal candidate for the job and then you'll be pissed off.


Then to me this is turning into a Shanahan situation until I see otherwise on the field - it already was with VC. Our defense struggled in big games with a very solid defensive minded HC in Fox and a proven DC in Del Rio - I can't imagine a guy that's all about offense is leaving the defensive success up to some defensive backs position. ELway needs to step in here and do something.

[Lancane]

Then to me this is turning into a Shanahan situation until I see otherwise on the field - it already was with VC. Our defense struggled in big games with a very solid defensive minded HC in Fox and a proven DC in Del Rio - I can't imagine a guy that's all about offense is leaving the defensive success up to some defensive backs position. ELway needs to step in here and do something.

Elway is the architect, this isn't all on Kubiak. But he'll be the fall guy when it fails, we both know that is how it works.

I agree with much of what you've stated, but I already stated that Elway learned from Reeves and Shanahan, two coaches known for hiring friends, family and familiar coaches.

[ShaneFalco]

Rams are being blocked from interviewing Chud from the Colts as well.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Then to me this is turning into a Shanahan situation until I see otherwise on the field - it already was with VC. Our defense struggled in big games with a very solid defensive minded HC in Fox and a proven DC in Del Rio - I can't imagine a guy that's all about offense is leaving the defensive success up to some defensive backs position. ELway needs to step in here and do something.

We had a defensive backs coach come in here 4 years ago and do a great job as a DC. I think he did just as well as Del Rio did, maybe more considering the talent he had to work with.

[Rick]

We had one called Slowic awhile ago as well. Not so sure he did ok lol.

[Lancane]

We had a defensive backs coach come in here 4 years ago and do a great job as a DC. I think he did just as well as Del Rio did, maybe more considering the talent he had to work with.

Well this is sort of scratch now Al, Joseph has been blocked and I doubt Denver will part with picks for a coordinator.

[NightTerror218]

Just makes it harder for the to get quality coaches I'd they pull this crap. Who would want to assistant coach there now?

[GEM]

The only one that I've seen report Smith as the favorite is Cecil Lammey. I'll worry about it when a credible source reports it.

Lammey is easily one of my favorite guys to listen to.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 5h

#Broncos still hoping for change of heart from #Bengals on Vance Joseph, but they are moving forward w/ work on other candidates for DC. job

[tomjonesrocks]

Well this is sort of scratch now Al, Joseph has been blocked and I doubt Denver will part with picks for a coordinator.

I seriously hope they don't. Joseph is at this point is unproven. If they see a guy that can grow into the role great, but that would be crazy. Denver needs their picks.

[Lancane]

I seriously hope they don't. Joseph is at this point is unproven. If they see a guy that can grow into the role great, but that would be crazy. Denver needs their picks.

Problem is that the only other candidate mentioned by anyone would be a horrible, questionable choice.

[Ravage!!!]

EVERY draft pick is an un-proven. What are the odds that a 7th round pick makes the team?

[Lancane]

EVERY draft pick is an un-proven. What are the odds that a 7th round pick makes the team?

You really think Brown would take a 7th Round Pick, he's too stupid - let alone pulling this **** will cause coaches to shy from wanting to work for you.

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe Pepper Johnson, what so you?

[Lancane]

Maybe Pepper Johnson, what so you?

Pepper Johnson is a pretty popular candidate as well.

[VonDoom]

Maybe Pepper Johnson, what so you?

I'd be down with bringing him in for a look

[Lancane]

Problem with Pepper Johnson is that he just agreed to be the Dallas Cowboys D-Line Coach, not sure about the rules regarding those under new contracts - and I could see Jones pulling a Brown move and not allowing us to talk to him.

[Simple Jaded]

Problem with Pepper Johnson is that he just agreed to be the Dallas Cowboys D-Line Coach, not sure about the rules regarding those under new contracts - and I could see Jones pulling a Brown move and not allowing us to talk to him.

Shit. That is a problem.

[Joel]

You really think Brown would take a 7th Round Pick, he's too stupid - let alone pulling this **** will cause coaches to shy from wanting to work for you.
I doubt he'd take a FUTURE 7th rounder for a guy we clearly want badly, and we don't have many spare 2015 picks. According to Ziggys thread we've got a 7th and 28th in the 5th, but nothing in the 4th, and we traded our 7th for McManus. All I've heard and seen about Joseph makes me really enthusiastic about him, but not enthusiastic enough to give up a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick we need to shore up our awful line so our first-year coach can get our banged up 39-year-old QB back to the SB and win it.

Just wish I knew a good alternative at DC since Cincy's screwing us (and Joseph) around and I don't want the guy Houston fired under Kubes.

[Lancane]

I doubt he'd take a FUTURE 7th rounder for a guy we clearly want badly, and we don't have many spare 2015 picks. According to Ziggys thread we've got a 7th and 28th in the 5th, but nothing in the 4th, and we traded our 7th for McManus. All I've heard and seen about Joseph makes me really enthusiastic about him, but not enthusiastic enough to give up a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick we need to shore up our awful line so our first-year coach can get our banged up 39-year-old QB back to the SB and win it.

Just wish I knew a good alternative at DC since Cincy's screwing us (and Joseph) around and I don't want the guy Houston fired under Kubes.

There are several candidates available, I created a thread listing the top candidates mentioned thus far this season and the only one not available to interview is Rocky Seto of the Seahawks. But you have Mike Smith, Jim Schwartz, Eric Mangini, Mike Nolan, Wade Phillips, Mike Singletary and more.

[Jsteve01]

Problem with Pepper Johnson is that he just agreed to be the Dallas Cowboys D-Line Coach, not sure about the rules regarding those under new contracts - and I could see Jones pulling a Brown move and not allowing us to talk to him.. Man I used to kill it with Pepper Johnson on Tecmo Bowl

[Simple Jaded]

Johnson would have checked with teams like Denver before taking another position coaching job, must not have been a possibility.

[Lancane]

. Man I used to kill it with Pepper Johnson on Tecmo Bowl

Tecmo Bowl... I loved freaking Tecmo Bowl.

How many remember this game:
6469

[Joel]

There are several candidates available, I created a thread listing the top candidates mentioned thus far this season and the only one not available to interview is Rocky Seto of the Seahawks. But you have Mike Smith, Jim Schwartz, Eric Mangini, Mike Nolan, Wade Phillips, Mike Singletary and more.
Yeah, hadn't seen that yet when I replied. I'm not a defense guy, but remain unsure of Singletary and Nolan, because I don't know many great Ds they coached, and fewer they built.

Most notably, SF was always .500 with an average D under Nolan with Singletary as DC, and then under Singletary, but IMMEDIATELY went to 3 straight NFCCGs once Harbaugh took their place. The only really great D I know of them coaching was Baltimores, but Baltimore had arguably the NFLs best D the previous year and the year before had the best scoring D EVER, so I can't give Nolan and Singletary much credit for that regressing only slightly rather than collapsing. Like SF, Washingtons D went from awful to great the first season after Nolan.

Again, not a defense guy, so you and everyone else are welcome and encouraged to tell me all I'm missing.

[spikerman]

I have to admit that I don't get the Wade Phillips love. I think he was a good coach and a good person, but I want someone who's got a little nasty in them.

[TXBRONC]

I have to admit that I don't get the Wade Phillips love. I think he was a good coach and a good person, but I want someone who's got a little nasty in them.

His defenses are consistently good.