Ughh... Not a joke, Broncos will interview Vance Joseph for their Vacant Head Coaching Position!

[Lancane]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/16/broncos-to-interview-vance-joseph/

I don't even have words to express my utter bafflement. :shocked:

[Lancane]

For those who are scratching their heads, here is his Bio from the Texans website.

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coaches/vance-joseph/041ef750-2333-40c4-8f9d-4fb268e61815

[Davii]

Interesting.

[Lancane]

The NFLN confirms that Denver will indeed interview Vance Joseph according to their Coach Tracker, saying he could be interviewed as soon as Friday. :tsk:

[pulse]

I would like to think the guy has a shot or Denver wouldn't be interviewing him but, unfortunately, this straight up stinks of appeasement for the Rooney Rule. Granted, they do HAVE to interview a minority candidate. My problem is that I don't see Vance Joseph as a legitimate candidate of being hired as the head coach and it has nothing to do with ethnicity or race. It has everything to do with the fact he has zero experience beyond being a positions coach. Now he may very well make a potentially excellent defensive coordinator prospect. He might very well get a shot at coordinator. But if you get my point here..... :tsk:

Here's another confirmation from the Denver Post:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/01/15/broncos-interview-nfl-secondary-coach-former-cu-buffs-quarterback-vance-joseph-head-coaching-position/32180/


Joseph, 42, has also coached defensive backs for the Houston Texans and Bengals. While most head coaching candidates make the step from the coordinator position, it is not unprecedented for position coaches to be hired as head coaches. Pittsburgh’s Mike Tomlin, Baltimore’s John Harbaugh, Kansas City’s Andy Reid and San Francisco’s Jim Tomsula all got their first head coaching gigs directly from position coach.

I trust Elway knows what he's doing but, to my bewilderment, this guy must be the best kept secret in Texas.

[TimHippo]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/16/broncos-to-interview-vance-joseph/

I don't even have words to express my utter bafflement. :shocked:

I misread it as broncos to interview Vance Johnson, lol. Not that that would have been any better.

[Pudge]

I misread it as broncos to interview Vance Johnson, lol. Not that that would have been any better.

I got an autographed shot glass from Vance Johnson once. I was so,proud of it, I put it on display. One night my roommate that I had bitched at for months for being a slob decided to wash dishes. He put my shot glass in the dishwasher and ruined the autograph. To be honest it was scurrilous

[pulse]

I got an autographed shot glass from Vance Johnson once. I was so,proud of it, I put it on display. One night my roommate that I had bitched at for months for being a slob decided to wash dishes. He put my shot glass in the dishwasher and ruined the autograph. To be honest it was scurrilous

You only shared that story so you could use the word "scurrilous," didn't you? Don't lie!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This guy has done an impressive job in Texas. He sounds like a fast track guy.

[Pudge]

You only shared that story so you could use the word "scurrilous," didn't you? Don't lie!

Well timhippo uses a single big word repeatedly, so I figured I could use various big words out of context and be cool with it

[Simple Jaded]

Well timhippo uses a single big word repeatedly, so I figured I could use various big words out of context and be cool with it

Vance Young is milquetoast. Amirite?

[Lancane]

This guy has done an impressive job in Texas. He sounds like a fast track guy.

So was McDaniels as we all remember and I am sure we all remember how that turned out. The screwed up thing is that there is not a shred of proof that Joseph has the tools to be a head coach, hell...he's never even been a coordinator at any level. I'm sorry, but this has truly and utterly shaken my faith in the Broncos Brass, including Elway.

Of course Klis is spinning this as an up and coming young coach, but in all I've read no one believes it. Every year there are those who are rising and falling, like Austin and Hamilton or McDermott and Schwartz. But this is about as out of left field as a front office can get. I laughed at Les Shapiro and Woody Paige earlier when they were expressing and comparing John Elway to Trent Baalke and how they are too controlling in as much as internally sabotaging the franchises by acting like General Managers of bottom tier organization that struggle. But I am not so sure they were wrong now, it would explain why Fox was willing to get the hell out of dodge, the same for Del Rio. Did Elway force the divorce? Originally I put it all on Fox - right now I would swear Elway is possessed by Al Davis.

As I read what Klis wrote in that column, what caught my eye is that he said Elway has made numerous calls - that suggests to me that coaches are leery of the opening. After all, there has been no answer from Kubiak noted anywhere, not even in Baltimore where the fans are waiting on pins and needles for the answer because they've come to love him and want him to return. Nor have they made a move to re-interview Rick Dennison who was the front runner for the job last time before they hired Fox. Why have they only scheduled three interviews when so many better candidates are out there? It makes me wonder if Elway between his action and statements hasn't shot himself and the team in the foot for the sake of loyalty to Manning and his own stubbornness - no matter the love I have for John, it seems believable to me at this moment. And maybe, just maybe I am venting my emotional disbelief over the lack of progress. But I find it funny that Ian Rappaport reported that Elway and Gase had talks but nothing much else and that the team wanted to go in a different direction then a day later the team reports they will interview him? Austin is all but begging Atlanta to hire him and he'd even bring Gase as the Offensive Coordinator? And according to Seattle media that Quinn wants the Falcons vacancy or he'll return to Seattle?

My only hope is if John Elway is shell shocked from the whole Fox incident or too emblazoned with his own importance in the scheme of things that Bowlen goes to him and slaps some sense into him. Because right now, where it looks like this organization is headed may be worse then what McDaniels did and that is disturbing to me.

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe they're interviewing Joseph as as DC for Kubiak, HC is too big of a leap.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Dude, speculation on that level can't be healthy. Drink a cup of tea and smell the flowers bro.

[Lancane]

Maybe they're interviewing Joseph as as DC for Kubiak, HC is too big of a leap.

I had hoped as much Jaded, but every report is confirming it's for the Head Coach position. And if for the Rooney Rule, it would be one thing despite the lame duck candidacy, but with Austin scheduled to meet with the Broncos later today there was no real need to further fulfill that and if so, why not with a real possibility like Hue Jackson?

[Lancane]

Dude, speculation on that level can't be healthy. Drink a cup of tea and smell the flowers bro.

I said screw the tea and am drinking Bud Light, and I have no flowers to smell!!! :lol:

[SoCalImport]

Because right now, where it looks like this organization is headed may be worse then what McDaniels did and that is disturbing to me.

Honestly seems like you're refusing to see any possibility other than 'the sky is falling'.
We will soon have a shiny new coaching staff and although there's not much knowing what the end results may be, there's no chance of a catastrophe like the mcDepocolypse. Not with Elway. No way.

[Simple Jaded]

I had hoped as much Jaded, but every report is confirming it's for the Head Coach position. And if for the Rooney Rule, it would be one thing despite the lame duck candidacy, but with Austin scheduled to meet with the Broncos later today there was no real need to further fulfill that and if so, why not with a real possibility like Hue Jackson?

I think this is tied to Kubiak, worst case is Kubes recommended Joseph as he turned down Elway's offer for an interview.

Look at it this way, when/if Denver signs one of the usual suspects it's less of a letdown after they've interview someone you've never considered.

[Lancane]

Honestly seems like you're refusing to see any possibility other than 'the sky is falling'.
We will soon have a shiny new coaching staff and although there's not much knowing what the end results may be, there's no chance of a catastrophe like the mcDepocolypse. Not with Elway. No way.

And San Francisco fans thought Jim Harbaugh was untouchable and would never be fired. Look man, I am a realist and at times pessimistic - but right now I see no shiny new coaching staff, I see us interviewing one candidate that was overlooked by three teams he interviewed with and many believe is not ready to be a head coach in Gase, to Austin who has less experience then Gase and now this guy - who hasn't even been a coordinator or head coach at even the pee-wee level. I'm not trying to be a downer, I really am not - but my optimism at this point and faith in the organization is crumbling. I remember a time when we all thought that Shanahan would never leave or that Dan Reeves would never try to get rid of John Elway. Fact is that sometimes what we believe isn't reality and what is reality cheapens our expectations.

[Lancane]

I think this is tied to Kubiak, worst case is Kubes recommended Joseph as he turned down Elway's offer for an interview.

Look at it this way, when/if Denver signs one of the usual suspects it's less of a letdown after they've interview someone you've never considered.

Like I said before Jaded, initially I thought no way...he has to be a defensive coordinator candidate that either Kubiak or Dennison had told John they wanted if they do come on board. But not one report thus far is implying anything other then what I stated. I would have been okay with him getting his shot at defensive coordinator, but as a head coach? Oh well...nothing I can do but wait, watch and ***ch!!! LOL

[Simple Jaded]

Like I said before Jaded, initially I thought no way...he has to be a defensive coordinator candidate that either Kubiak or Dennison had told John they wanted if they do come on board. But not one report thus far is implying anything other then what I stated. I would have been okay with him getting his shot at defensive coordinator, but as a head coach? Oh well...nothing I can do but wait, watch and ***ch!!! LOL

i would have expected a lot more activity out of a team that had plans of moving on regardless of the outcome of Sunday's game.

[Lancane]

i would have expected a lot more activity out of a team that had plans of moving on regardless of the outcome of Sunday's game.

You and me both bro! :beer:

[Simple Jaded]

What's getting stressful is knowing this is time sensitive, not just the HC candidates but the staff they'll put together.

[Lancane]

What's getting stressful is knowing this is time sensitive, not just the HC candidates but the staff they'll put together.

Very true, right now those teams without Head Coach vacancies are rushing to fill other coaching vacancies, and those with new coaches are doing the same but on a much broader spectrum. The one nice thing is that there are a good number of positional coaches that are solid candidates to become coordinators, but not much in the way of positional coaches, that IMHO is where the real problem lies for these new head coaches.

[MOtorboat]

Not too concerned.

[Simple Jaded]

Very true, right now those teams without Head Coach vacancies are rushing to fill other coaching vacancies, and those with new coaches are doing the same but on a much broader spectrum. The one nice thing is that there are a good number of positional coaches that are solid candidates to become coordinators, but not much in the way of positional coaches, that IMHO is where the real problem lies for these new head coaches.

Coordinators would have their dark horse position coach candidates, all coaches do. They're there, watched NFLPA Bowl today and Jon Kitna is being interviewed and I'm thinking this dude sounds like a coach, moments later Polian is gushing over Kitna saying this guy should be coaching in the NFL. Frank Reich started somewhere.

Not sure this necessarily applies to SB contending teams.

[Ziggy]

Elway is just setting the table so that he can get Kubiak in and get him signed before he gets on the plane to go back home. I still see Austin as the darkhorse, but I'd love to see this combo:

Head Coach- Kubiak
OC- Dennison
DC- Fangio

[DenBronx]

And this is what I was afraid of. Getting rid of a very good coach, a coach players love and vets want to play for for bottom feeders and no names. We have over thought this one while our pants are on the ground. We're making dumb choices in the heat of the moment.

[DenBronx]

Elway is just setting the table so that he can get Kubiak in and get him signed before he gets on the plane to go back home. I still see Austin as the darkhorse, but I'd love to see this combo:

Head Coach- Kubiak
OC- Dennison
DC- Fangio


No thank you to Dennison. Give me Kyle Shanahan instead as the OC.

[Simple Jaded]

Mike Nolan as DC, anyone think Nolan can be DC for the guy he brought into the NFL, in Vance Joseph? Apparently Joseph came into the league under Nolan in SanFran.

[MOtorboat]

I kind of want to see this guy hired.

[Simple Jaded]

I kind of want to see this guy hired.

Looks like a 3-4 defense if he was hired, just speculating.

[Northman]

Its token.

[Simple Jaded]

Its token.

Racist.

[BroncoWave]

People are seriously freaking out because of a guy we decided to interview? Not hire, just interview. One of several people we are going to interview. Interview. Not hire. Come on. In the words of Aaron Rodgers... R-E-L-A-X. It'll be ok.

[silkamilkamonico]

The best candidate possible for the job is still out there in Quinn. I don't nderstand why nobody is talking about him. Who cares who they decide to interview along the way. Elway isn't going to hire Joe Average for the organization, he'll get someone who he sees fit.

[TXBRONC]

I don't have a problem with it.

[Dreadnought]

So was McDaniels as we all remember and I am sure we all remember how that turned out. The screwed up thing is that there is not a shred of proof that Joseph has the tools to be a head coach, hell...he's never even been a coordinator at any level. I'm sorry, but this has truly and utterly shaken my faith in the Broncos Brass, including Elway.

Of course Klis is spinning this as an up and coming young coach, but in all I've read no one believes it. Every year there are those who are rising and falling, like Austin and Hamilton or McDermott and Schwartz. But this is about as out of left field as a front office can get. I laughed at Les Shapiro and Woody Paige earlier when they were expressing and comparing John Elway to Trent Baalke and how they are too controlling in as much as internally sabotaging the franchises by acting like General Managers of bottom tier organization that struggle. But I am not so sure they were wrong now, it would explain why Fox was willing to get the hell out of dodge, the same for Del Rio. Did Elway force the divorce? Originally I put it all on Fox - right now I would swear Elway is possessed by Al Davis.

As I read what Klis wrote in that column, what caught my eye is that he said Elway has made numerous calls - that suggests to me that coaches are leery of the opening. After all, there has been no answer from Kubiak noted anywhere, not even in Baltimore where the fans are waiting on pins and needles for the answer because they've come to love him and want him to return. Nor have they made a move to re-interview Rick Dennison who was the front runner for the job last time before they hired Fox. Why have they only scheduled three interviews when so many better candidates are out there? It makes me wonder if Elway between his action and statements hasn't shot himself and the team in the foot for the sake of loyalty to Manning and his own stubbornness - no matter the love I have for John, it seems believable to me at this moment. And maybe, just maybe I am venting my emotional disbelief over the lack of progress. But I find it funny that Ian Rappaport reported that Elway and Gase had talks but nothing much else and that the team wanted to go in a different direction then a day later the team reports they will interview him? Austin is all but begging Atlanta to hire him and he'd even bring Gase as the Offensive Coordinator? And according to Seattle media that Quinn wants the Falcons vacancy or he'll return to Seattle?

My only hope is if John Elway is shell shocked from the whole Fox incident or too emblazoned with his own importance in the scheme of things that Bowlen goes to him and slaps some sense into him. Because right now, where it looks like this organization is headed may be worse then what McDaniels did and that is disturbing to me.

You kind of summed up where my thinking has been headed. I am not at all convinced that the Elway - Manning relationship is healthy for the organization

[BroncoWave]

Can we at least all agree to wait until someone is actually hired before we start freaking out that the organization is doomed?

[Buff]

Wild speculation itt.

[GEM]

This is appeasing the Rooney rule. The Tyrell dude from Detroit has put his interview on hold for the Atlanta job.

[Krugan]

Still a group of coaches that have a game to plan for this weekend, that have a good shot of being head coaches.

Sometimes hurry up is good, sometimes taking a deep breath after a big change is better....

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This is appeasing the Rooney rule. The Tyrell dude from Detroit has put his interview on hold for the Atlanta job.


Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 31m

Reported last night Teryl Austin interview with Broncos was in limbo. No longer in limbo. It's not happening.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I posted in the coaching rumors thread, that one of Austin's selling points to Atlanta was that he would bring Gase in to be the OC.

[Lancane]

Though Austin pulled his name from consideration, interviewing Joseph then possibly bringing him on as a coordinator candidate, isn't that a little close to violating the Rooney Rule? Not that I agree with the Rule, understand it. But I believe that it really doesn't change much in the way of who will be hired, if a team wants someone to be coach, they'll be the coach.

[Lancane]

People are seriously freaking out because of a guy we decided to interview? Not hire, just interview. One of several people we are going to interview. Interview. Not hire. Come on. In the words of Aaron Rodgers... R-E-L-A-X. It'll be ok.

Really? One of several? Please Wave tell me this great long list of candidates? Hell, even team sources are saying they don't plan to wait long to fill the position - including to interview Dan Quinn (who I think you'll agree is the board favorite) beside Kubiak for the job. Right now that list is Gase, Austin (pulled name), Kubiak and a positional coach that I guarantee only a small number on here could have said a damn thing about had they no internet.

I am relaxed now...but last night, eh...was simply blowing off steam because this whole damn thing made little sense.

[Ravage!!!]

I find it pretty amusing that some can get so uptight about the interviews and hires, as if they had been in the interviews and heard the discussions. Or, even been around...at all... to discuss why they would bring that particular guy into the fold.

[BroncoJoe]

Really? One of several? Please Wave tell me this great long list of candidates? Hell, even team sources are saying they don't plan to wait long to fill the position - including to interview Dan Quinn (who I think you'll agree is the board favorite) beside Kubiak for the job. Right now that list is Gase, Austin (pulled name), Kubiak and a positional coach that I guarantee only a small number on here could have said a damn thing about had they no internet.

I am relaxed now...but last night, eh...was simply blowing off steam because this whole damn thing made little sense.

In Elway we trust.

Well, I, at least. I don't see a reason to get all excited, upset or stressed about it. What happens, happens.

[Lancane]

I find it pretty amusing that some can get so uptight about the interviews and hires, as if they had been in the interviews and heard the discussions. Or, even been around...at all... to discuss why they would bring that particular guy into the fold.

Really, so you wouldn't care who they hired? Despite everything Rav, several of us remember the days when the boards were in heated debates over everything from Plummer, Cutler to Shanahan and McDaniels. Granted, your a bit more open minded at times but you were there right along with me, Cugel, AZ, Joe, Underrated, TX, Gem, Top, Al, Mo, etc. in the middle of those long drawn out debates and arguments. It's simply our love for the team, and while I am a realist at times - I did admit that I was being heavily pessimistic last night and could have been blowing it out of proportion - so I was honest in that I might not have been quite level headed. But can you honestly tell me that you think Joseph is Head Coach material? That he was the best the Broncos could do and was just due diligence?

[BroncoWave]

Really? One of several? Please Wave tell me this great long list of candidates? Hell, even team sources are saying they don't plan to wait long to fill the position - including to interview Dan Quinn (who I think you'll agree is the board favorite) beside Kubiak for the job. Right now that list is Gase, Austin (pulled name), Kubiak and a positional coach that I guarantee only a small number on here could have said a damn thing about had they no internet.

I am relaxed now...but last night, eh...was simply blowing off steam because this whole damn thing made little sense.

We also have an interview set with Doug Maronne, a guy who just did a pretty good job in Buffalo. Again, relax.

[Lancane]

In Elway we trust.

Well, I, at least. I don't see a reason to get all excited, upset or stressed about it. What happens, happens.

Joe, I have defended Elway for days saying that I didn't believe he instigated the split between Fox and the team but that Fox was at fault. But when it sounds like he is going to follow Trent Baalke's playbook, I began to question. But I at least admitted that it could me over reacting...so I accounted for that. I trust Elway, but as I told North the other day - I have been more cynical or fatalistic this year then ever before, which of course is on me and no one else.

:lol:

[Lancane]

We also have an interview set with Doug Maronne, a guy who just did a pretty good job in Buffalo. Again, relax.

I am relaxed Wave, seriously I am. Was just a late night rant brother, me blowing off steam. I haven't heard about Marrone, who confirmed that?

[BroncoWave]

I am relaxed Wave, seriously I am. Was just a late night rant brother, me blowing off steam. I haven't heard about Marrone, who confirmed that?

Schefter and Vic

[Ravage!!!]

Really, so you wouldn't care who they hired? Despite everything Rav, several of us remember the days when the boards were in heated debates over everything from Plummer, Cutler to Shanahan and McDaniels. Granted, your a bit more open minded at times but you were there right along with me, Cugel, AZ, Joe, Underrated, TX, Gem, Top, Al, Mo, etc. in the middle of those long drawn out debates and arguments. It's simply our love for the team, and while I am a realist at times - I did admit that I was being heavily pessimistic last night and could have been blowing it out of proportion - so I was honest in that I might not have been quite level headed. But can you honestly tell me that you think Joseph is Head Coach material? That he was the best the Broncos could do and was just due diligence?

Oh.. I admit that I was HEAVILY involved in those "debates" (arguments).... I certainly can't deny that. I also respect your knowledge of the game, VERY much so. SO please don't let my comments sway you to believe anything less.

But I'll say this... I pretty much defer the knowledge to the coaches and those involved. I KNOW that Elway knows much much much more about football than I do. So when I'm not in an interview room, nor hearing what is said, what is discussed, nor what is talked about, then I simply have NOTHING to say but to admit that there are people that know MUCH more than me, making the decisions based on MUCH MUCH MUCH more information than I'm privy to.

It's the same with the couch coaches. Coaches will spend 70 hours going over film, watching practices 5 days a week, and making game plans based on MUCH MUCH MUCH more knowledge than I have..... yet there are some here that think they can call the plays. It's almost laughable, and hard to bit the tongue (fingers) most of the time when you hear the complaints and bitching.

Then there are those that make the hypothetical scenarios in how THEY would have gone back and hired this guy, and drafted that guy, and EVERYTHING would have worked out great and THEY could have easily "fixed" the problems of this team. No problem. Easy peasy.

Others will tell you how having a winning NFL career over a decade of coaching, and having a winning playoff record, and taking two different teams to the SUper Bowl... is just an "mediocre" job of coaching in the NFL.

I know that there are a LOT of things to be considered when making a hire like this, and no matter who is hired, not everyone is going to like the pick. THose that didn't like it will be the ones to say "I told you so" if things go badly. Those that liked the pick will say "I told you so" if things go well.

All in all, I get that I don't know, and am more interested in finding out who is finally picked, than fretting over the process.

[BroncoJoe]

All in all, I get that I don't know, and am more interested in finding out who is finally picked, than fretting over the process.

This.

[NightTerror218]

I think this is to stay in compliance with Rooney rule since Austin withdrew himself.

[Lancane]

I think this is to stay in compliance with Rooney rule since Austin withdrew himself.

Yeah, but last night there was nothing about Austin pulling his name Terror, and suddenly this unknown which he pretty much is was a Head Coach candidate. After all, you'd think if they were doing it to fulfill the Rooney Rule and look legit they would interview someone like Hue Jackson or Mike Singletary, coaches with experience.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Yeah, but last night there was nothing about Austin pulling his name Terror, and suddenly this unknown which he pretty much is was a Head Coach candidate. After all, you'd think if they were doing it to fulfill the Rooney Rule and look legit they would interview someone like Hue Jackson or Mike Singletary, coaches with experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as the DC if not as HC.

[Lancane]

I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as the DC if not as HC.

You think he has a legit shot to be named the Head Coach or are you saying you believe he will end up the Defensive Coordinator and it was leaning that way to begin with?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You think he has a legit shot to be named the Head Coach or are you saying you believe he will end up the Defensive Coordinator and it was leaning that way to begin with?

I'm speculating there's a good chance a certain someone wants him as a DC. Kubes maybe? Kubiak has worked with him. .....

[chazoe60]

I'm speculating there's a good chance a certain someone wants him as a DC. Kubes maybe? Kubiak has worked with him. .....
This is my thoughts as well.

[jhildebrand]

I am glad to see Elway is turning over every proverbial stone in the search for a new coach. Teams hold on to their player and coach interviews forever and for good reason. They last hours upon hours and they can glean a ton of information from the candidate. It seems to me after losing to Cincinnati and with their DB's having a good night against us that interviewing Joseph is a good idea. Finally, when this is all said and done we know Elway will have done his due diligence. Isn't that what we want? :confused: I, for one, would be upset if Elway had named a coach within 48 hours of firing (er mutually parting ways) Fox.

[Joel]

I misread it as broncos to interview Vance Johnson, lol.
Same here. :D

For what it's worth, Houstons secondary was a perennial disaster before Phillips took over the D in 2011 and made it a feared force overnight. I still think that was mostly Wade, but the front seven wasn't nearly as bad as the awful secondary that kept Houstons versatile overpowering offense out of the playoffs, so Joseph definitely did excellent work there. I just don't know finding and training half a dozen guys to run a good secondary's enough reason to put someone in charge of a whole TEAM trying to return to the SB; it DOES reek of the Rooney Rule, sadly.

If we want someone from Kubiaks old Texans staff that badly, I still greatly prefer the man himself or Dennison, a former NFL LB who'ssuccessfully coached NFL STs, QBs and offensive lines as well as whole offenses. That's a lot broader resume than Josephs, which is the kind of experience a coach needs to run a whole team rather than just part of it. Now, Joseph as DC....

[G_Money]

I'd If we already know who we want (down to one or two candidates) I'd rather John interview a new minority candidate who is getting tons of love but needs the interview experience rather than recycling somebody else for the 8th time when the guy obviously has no hope of ever getting a head job.

The buzz on VJ is that he'll be a terrific head man someday. Who knows, maybe it'll even be for us down the line. Might as well do that interview now, especially if you're also considering him for a DC position. Kubiak is one heart attack away from retiring, after all - it's nice to have a Bruce Arians around if your Chuck Pagano gets laid low for a bit.

I have zero problems with looking for new, fresh faces to run a club and getting those new faces the needed interview experience. If you asked minority candidates who are trying to impress white owners, they'd probably tell you they would rather all of them get a couple shots than that one of them gets 6 token interviews for a job he'll never land.

And sometimes you find Mike Tomlin.

Of course, sometimes you also find Raheem Morris and promote him too early and out of his depth. Let's not do that...

[NightTerror218]

Yeah, but last night there was nothing about Austin pulling his name Terror, and suddenly this unknown which he pretty much is was a Head Coach candidate. After all, you'd think if they were doing it to fulfill the Rooney Rule and look legit they would interview someone like Hue Jackson or Mike Singletary, coaches with experience.

Need to comy some how. Since no more Austin. Better to have option with rooney rule then only 1 canidate. Austin might have been the only canidate for Rooney rule and this guy was a courtesy interview who knows but elway

[Joel]

I'd If we already know who we want (down to one or two candidates) I'd rather John interview a new minority candidate who is getting tons of love but needs the interview experience rather than recycling somebody else for the 8th time when the guy obviously has no hope of ever getting a head job.

The buzz on VJ is that he'll be a terrific head man someday. Who knows, maybe it'll even be for us down the line. Might as well do that interview now, especially if you're also considering him for a DC position. Kubiak is one heart attack away from retiring, after all - it's nice to have a Bruce Arians around if your Chuck Pagano gets laid low for a bit.

I have zero problems with looking for new, fresh faces to run a club and getting those new faces the needed interview experience. If you asked minority candidates who are trying to impress white owners, they'd probably tell you they would rather all of them get a couple shots than that one of them gets 6 token interviews for a job he'll never land.

And sometimes you find Mike Tomlin.

Of course, sometimes you also find Raheem Morris and promote him too early and out of his depth. Let's not do that...
If we can sweet talk Kubes into coming home, I expect Dennison will do the same, and might well be our "down the road" when Kubiak's gone, assuming they're as successful together here as they were before and on every team since. Again, Dennison's got tons of NFL experience playing or coaching FOUR different positions in addition to succeeding Kubiak as our OC before becoming his in Houston: Pretty soon, the only question will be whether he WANTS to be a head coach. All that said, Joseph as DC doesn't sound bad; our D (especially secondary) is way too good for the way it plays big games (or doesn't.)

[Lancane]

If we can sweet talk Kubes into coming home, I expect Dennison will do the same, and might well be our "down the road" when Kubiak's gone, assuming they're as successful together here as they were before and on every team since. Again, Dennison's got tons of NFL experience playing or coaching FOUR different positions in addition to succeeding Kubiak as our OC before becoming his in Houston: Pretty soon, the only question will be whether he WANTS to be a head coach. All that said, Joseph as DC doesn't sound bad; our D (especially secondary) is way too good for the way it plays big games (or doesn't.)

Dennison is the favorite to replace him in Baltimore, and according to one report it is Kyle Shanahan who will likely be targeted as Denver's OC.

[TXBRONC]

Dennison is the favorite to replace him in Baltimore, and according to one report it is Kyle Shanahan who will likely be targeted as Denver's OC.

I think Kyle Shanahan would be an excellent choice.

[Cugel]

Same here. :D

For what it's worth, Houstons secondary was a perennial disaster before Phillips took over the D in 2011 and made it a feared force overnight. I still think that was mostly Wade, but the front seven wasn't nearly as bad as the awful secondary that kept Houstons versatile overpowering offense out of the playoffs, so Joseph definitely did excellent work there. I just don't know finding and training half a dozen guys to run a good secondary's enough reason to put someone in charge of a whole TEAM trying to return to the SB; it DOES reek of the Rooney Rule, sadly.

If we want someone from Kubiaks old Texans staff that badly, I still greatly prefer the man himself or Dennison, a former NFL LB who'ssuccessfully coached NFL STs, QBs and offensive lines as well as whole offenses. That's a lot broader resume than Josephs, which is the kind of experience a coach needs to run a whole team rather than just part of it. Now, Joseph as DC....

Basically this.

Joseph's interview is a lot more like an interview for a DC.

Rick Dennison OC, and Kubiac HC and Joseph DC? Could happen. I have no idea how I feel about this yet.

At least they would finally go to the zone blocking system! That has got to happen because you can run that system without a bunch of elite OL and it takes too long to get that kind of OL together. They can get guys in the later rounds because few teams want those kind of smaller (285 lbs. or so) OL who are faster and more athletic.

This worked great in Denver with the altitude because by the 4th quarter those bigger DL are flat dead on their feet. They're gassed, so you can run up the score in the 4th.

That's the ONE thing that I think could totally turn this team around and help Peyton go out as a winner. And wouldn't that be a good shaft into that turncoat Fox?

Good luck to you Foxy dealing with your $57 million guaranteed contract with Jeff George Cutler! :wave:

[Joel]

Very true, right now those teams without Head Coach vacancies are rushing to fill other coaching vacancies, and those with new coaches are doing the same but on a much broader spectrum. The one nice thing is that there are a good number of positional coaches that are solid candidates to become coordinators, but not much in the way of positional coaches, that IMHO is where the real problem lies for these new head coaches.
The only remaining team with a HC vacancy is us, and even if someone hires one our choices as an assistant, getting permission to interview him for our HC spot is a mere formality to comply with league rules. Until/unless another team fires its head coach, this stopped being time sensitive the moment the Bears made it official with Fox; we can take the time to get it right. And I'd rather take the time to find just the right guy, knowing we might miss out if takes too long, than be so hasty to get ANYONE before other teams snatch up EVERYONE worth having that we end up with another McDumbass.

I get that people don't want to wait so long the field of viable candidates is picked clean, but rushing to hire whomever we can get immediately negates the benefit of many good options.

[Joel]

Looks like a 3-4 defense if he was hired, just speculating.
Fine by me; it's better suited to the pass-first spread offenses, and Miller and Ware aren't just All Pros and potential HoFers, but prototypical DEs. What's more, we finally have enough legit NTs to fill the 3-4s other key spot (though we might need to add a sub if Knighton follows Del Rio to Oakland, because the behemoths suited to 3-4 NT tire quickly enough it's necessary to have at least an adequate sub.) Trevathan and Marshall would ideal coverage 3-4 ILBs, Wolfe and Jackson ideal pass rushing/run stuffing 3-4 DEs. Other than a sub NT, the only question I'd have is whether Irving fits.

Many of us have been wanting to revert to the 3-4 for years BECAUSE it suits the modern game so well, but most realized we never had the personnel: Now we do, so why not?


I'm speculating there's a good chance a certain someone wants him as a DC. Kubes maybe? Kubiak has worked with him. .....
That really is a delicious thought, especially if Dennison follows Kubes as he always has so far. I don't know much was Wade and how much Joseph, but it was truly night and day with Houstons secondary when they joined the team in 2011. That team couldn't cover its own rear before that, and it almost singlehandedly kept them out of the playoffs two years running; then the new defensive staff comes in, gets some draft input, drills and schemes, and suddenly everyone from Jonathan Joseph to rookie DEs is getting pick-sixes.


Dennison is the favorite to replace him in Baltimore, and according to one report it is Kyle Shanahan who will likely be targeted as Denver's OC.
Plausible, because that's how it went down when Kubes got the Texans job; he might still be our OC if the Boy Genius hadn't come along and demoted him back to line coach so joining Kubiak as Texans OC became a promotion. It's really staggering how thoroughly that ONE guy demolished an offense nearly done with a strong rebuild in a lighting fast two seasons. Oh, well.

I'd hate to miss out on Dennison though, because he's a MUCH better choice than Kyle Shanahan, IMHO. He brings a lot more depth and breadth to the position and, whatever he did/n't with Manziel this season, he couldn't succeed in three years of trying even with his fathers offense on which he was LITERALLY raised. Maybe he's improved, but I'd rather he season a bit more before trusting him with Mannings final season, and would rather have Dennisons successful versatile experience for any rebuild.

[Simple Jaded]

You don't need those ridiculous 285lb FB's playing OL to run the ZBS, those days are gone, they fail miserably in goaline and short yardage. Been that way for a decade. Kubiak ran his ZBS to perfection last season with the Ravens maulers. Monroe 6-5/306, Osemele 6-6/330, Zuttah 6-4/304, Yanda 6-3/305, 6-6/310.

Forget those late round scrubs, there's a place for them in the NFL and it's called a "backup".

[Lancane]

The only remaining team with a HC vacancy is us, and even if someone hires one our choices as an assistant, getting permission to interview him for our HC spot is a mere formality to comply with league rules. Until/unless another team fires its head coach, this stopped being time sensitive the moment the Bears made it official with Fox; we can take the time to get it right. And I'd rather take the time to find just the right guy, knowing we might miss out if takes too long, than be so hasty to get ANYONE before other teams snatch up EVERYONE worth having that we end up with another McDumbass.

I get that people don't want to wait so long the field of viable candidates is picked clean, but rushing to hire whomever we can get immediately negates the benefit of many good options.

Joel, we are talking positional personnel, not Head Coach or Coordinators. The same rules apply to all coaches under contract, that they can only break their current contracts to take a higher position with another team. So we can not hire a positional coach to be a positional coach from another team and if all other NFL teams fill their coaching staff then Denver is left picking third or fourth options at those positions...unless we are making each of them Assistant Head Coaches as well? I am not worried about the Head Coach as long as Denver gets someone promising and has earned a shot. We can promote coordinators from any number of great positional coaches in the league, but position coaches are another story all together unless we are going to target Offensive and Defensive Assistants or going to reach out to the Collegiate ranks.

[Joel]

Joel, we are talking positional personnel, not Head Coach or Coordinators. The same rules apply to all coaches under contract, that they can only break their current contracts to take a higher position with another team. So we can not hire a positional coach to be a positional coach from another team and if all other NFL teams fill their coaching staff then Denver is left picking third or fourth options at those positions...unless we are making each of them Assistant Head Coaches as well? I am not worried about the Head Coach as long as Denver gets someone promising and has earned a shot. We can promote coordinators from any number of great positional coaches in the league, but position coaches are another story all together unless we are going to target Offensive and Defensive Assistants or going to reach out to the Collegiate ranks.
Ah, I see your point. Elway and his new head coach will probably want to keep a few of our current position coaches (e.g. Studesvilles name comes up a lot on here, though that's no guarantee Elway or TBA have equally high opinions of him.) If new head coach is willing and able to talk some of his key current staffers into taking promotions to follow him (I'm still holding out for a BOGO on Kubes and Denny), that mitigates the issue, too.) There's some big "if"s in there, but the farther down the food chain we go the less impact there is.

You make a good point, but if forced to choose, I'd rather take the time and secure the ideal commander-in-chief for the next four years to a decade—even if it lets opponents beat us to all the best quality battalion commanders—than quickly secure a quality general staff at the cost of having it run by whichever random idiot accepts the job first. If we don't take the time to get a good head coach, his choice of support staff probably won't be any more competent than his other decisions anyway, and a good head coach can compensate for bad staff a lot easier than the reverse.

[Lancane]

Ah, I see your point. Elway and his new head coach will probably want to keep a few of our current position coaches (e.g. Studesvilles name comes up a lot on here, though that's no guarantee Elway or TBA have equally high opinions of him.) If new head coach is willing and able to talk some of his key current staffers into taking promotions to follow him (I'm still holding out for a BOGO on Kubes and Denny), that mitigates the issue, too.) There's some big "if"s in there, but the farther down the food chain we go the less impact there is.

You make a good point, but if forced to choose, I'd rather take the time and secure the ideal commander-in-chief for the next four years to a decade—even if it lets opponents beat us to all the best quality battalion commanders—than quickly secure a quality general staff at the cost of having it run by whichever random idiot accepts the job first. If we don't take the time to get a good head coach, his choice of support staff probably won't be any more competent than his other decisions anyway, and a good head coach can compensate for bad staff a lot easier than the reverse.

Good point...the problem is that Coordinators are the one's with the individual philosophies who instill playbooks and game plans. Positional coaches however develop the athletes and get the most from the individuals that make up the team. I would say that both are pretty important to the success of a team - a good game plan can only do so much with crappy players and great players can only do so much with a crappy playbook or game plan, the best option is to have quality throughout the staff for overall success.

[7DnBrnc53]

You don't need those ridiculous 285lb FB's playing OL to run the ZBS, those days are gone, they fail miserably in goaline and short yardage. Been that way for a decade. Kubiak ran his ZBS to perfection last season with the Ravens maulers. Monroe 6-5/306, Osemele 6-6/330, Zuttah 6-4/304, Yanda 6-3/305, 6-6/310.

Forget those late round scrubs, there's a place for them in the NFL and it's called a "backup".

Good point. Although, when Denver won two SB's, people assume that's what they had, which is false. They had Nalen, Zimmerman (HOF and 2-time all-decade), Schlereth, Tony Jones, and Habib.

By 2002-03, though, that 285 pound FB stereotype fit more, with guys like Trey Teague, Matt Lepsis, Ben Hamilton, and Lennie Friedman.

[Joel]

Good point. Although, when Denver won two SB's, people assume that's what they had, which is false.
No, it's pretty accurate; our starting linemens average weight in '97 was 290.4 lbs. and none was >300 (Habib almost was at 299, but 299's not as dense for a guy who's 6'7".)


They had Nalen6'3" 286 lbs.


Zimmerman (HOF and 2-time all-decade)6'6" 294 lbs.


Schlereth6'3" 283 lbs.


Tony Jones
6'5" 290 lbs.


and Habib.
6'7" 299 lbs.


By 2002-03, though, that 285 pound FB stereotype fit more, with guys like Trey Teague, Matt Lepsis, Ben Hamilton, and Lennie Friedman.
Lepsis and Hamilton were also exceptional linemen, notwithstanding one posters habit of calling them "jumped up FBs" like Beadles. Just because a guy's (relatively) light doesn't make him a weakling nor pushover, but doing the same job as well as most bigger guys does require more strength and will from his (relatively) lesser muscle mass. We've got a bunch of really heavy weight room warriors now, but the holes they open tend to go the wrong way and line surge is still so hard to get CJ must break 3 tackles to avoid a 2 yd loss on 4th and 1.

I'm less interested in how big our linemen are/n't than whether they do their job; our current group's 316, 315, 300, 330 and 326, so averages EXACTLY 27 lbs. more than our repeat champions—and got manhandled from start to finish in THEIR only championship game. Remember George Foster? Remind you of any similarly lumbering penalty-prone guys who played the same spot before moving to LG? I'll take a 291.4 lb. championship lineman over a 317.4 lb. bum every day of the week and five times on Super Bowl Sunday. Even if some folks think Nalen and Schlereth were too small to play.

[7DnBrnc53]

No, it's pretty accurate; our starting linemens average weight in '97 was 290.4 lbs. and none was >300 (Habib almost was at 299, but 299's not as dense for a guy who's 6'7".)


What I meant was that the Broncos had four Pro Bowlers up front in 1997, not just some average guys like Lennie Friedman and Steve Herndon. I agree that the weight thing was played up too much before SB 32.


I'm less interested in how big our linemen are/n't than whether they do their job; our current group's 316, 315, 300, 330 and 326, so averages EXACTLY 27 lbs. more than our repeat champions—and got manhandled from start to finish in THEIR only championship game. Remember George Foster? Remind you of any similarly lumbering penalty-prone guys who played the same spot before moving to LG? I'll take a 291.4 lb. championship lineman over a 317.4 lb. bum every day of the week and five times on Super Bowl Sunday. Even if some folks think Nalen and Schlereth were too small to play.


Good points there, especially about George Foster. I am ashamed to admit that I wanted him or Kwame Harris 12 years ago. Both turned out to be busts.

[Simple Jaded]

Good point. Although, when Denver won two SB's, people assume that's what they had, which is false. They had Nalen, Zimmerman (HOF and 2-time all-decade), Schlereth, Tony Jones, and Habib.

By 2002-03, though, that 285 pound FB stereotype fit more, with guys like Trey Teague, Matt Lepsis, Ben Hamilton, and Lennie Friedman.

Habib was the weak link in that line and he was a solid player, the Broncos fell into the delusion that it's their athletic ability and quickness that made them click, it's also because they had good power for the era. Shit, these days the 320lb OL are freaky athletic, I remember Shaun Rogers beating Ben Hamilton like a lil bitch with speed, quickness and power, 350 pounds is a conservative guesstimate on his weight.

Times have changed, LB's are 285lbs, Mario Williams played OLB for Texans at 295lbs.

[Joel]

What I meant was that the Broncos had four Pro Bowlers up front in 1997, not just some average guys like Lennie Friedman and Steve Herndon. I agree that the weight thing was played up too much before SB 32.
Ah, fair enough then; no argument there, only emphatic frustrated agreement.


Good points there, especially about George Foster. I am ashamed to admit that I wanted him or Kwame Harris 12 years ago. Both turned out to be busts.
Franklin, Ramirez and Clark remind me far more of Foster than of Beadles (let alone Hamilton, much less our lightweight All Pro champions.) I left the last out before, but at 305 he's only "light" compared to the others, and has the same problem as Franklin and Ramirez: Powerful straight ahead blockers who can pancake anyone, but helpless against fast, quick and agile speed rushers and lacking the reflexes to stop even the most basic stunts. It's nigh impossible to pull or run traps with any kind of consistency with those guys, because they aren't quick or fast enough.

I concede Franklin's gotten a little better as primary pulling guard than he was at non-blindside tackle, but it's still hit and miss, feast or famine, and the rest... Vasquez is a stud, and maybe Clady just had a down year fresh off a season-ending injury (wouldn't be the first time, and I believe he hurt the same leg, just in a different place; a LT who can't pivot off his left foot's a disaster.) Of the rest, the only one who MIGHT be starting quality is Montgomery, who had many starts before Denver, yet somehow couldn't beat out Ramirez at center before halfway through the season.

[SoCalImport]

Some great players led those o-lines. No doubt. But some players IMHO were just made men and the God father that made them? Alex Gibbs.
After seeing Franklin pull effectively I see no reason why this group of guys couldn't manage a zone blocking system. Just takes coaching.

[Simple Jaded]

Franklin had the 14th best 40 among T's at the combine with a 5.05.
Was 5th in the 20 split with a 2.93
3rd in the 10 yard split with a 1.76
10th in the bench with 26
8th in the virt with a 28.5

Every test he did points to Joel being full of shit about him being a lumbering George Foster, Joel has been proven wrong numerous times about Franklin's supposed inability to pull and trap.

Joel is what I like to call. . . Wrong.

[Joel]

Franklin had the 14th best 40 among T's at the combine with a 5.05.
Was 5th in the 20 split with a 2.93
3rd in the 10 yard split with a 1.76
10th in the bench with 26
8th in the virt with a 28.5

Every test he did points to Joel being full of shit about him being a lumbering George Foster, Joel has been proven wrong numerous times about Franklin's supposed inability to pull and trap.

Joel is what I like to call. . . Wrong.
We're all aware you like calling me that whether it fits or not. 14th fastest slow dude's nothing to brag about, and his three cones, shuttles and the like are just as important: Lots of guys have blazing speed and NO agility, acceleration or reflexes. An OT can run a 4.0 flat 40, but if the DE gets out of his stance first with a lightning burst it's still a sack. Blazing speed in the WRONG DIRECTION just means it takes that much longer to recover and get back in position on a stunt.

Oh, and I doubt you'll find many 4-3 OLBs playing at 285 (e.g. Mario Williams was originally an elite DE in Dom Capers' Texans 4-3.) If anything, more passing has led to true LBs (i.e. not 4-3 RDEs playing in a 3-4) getting SMALLER to keep up with slot receivers and receiving TEs downfield. Wesley Woodyard's listed at 233, only a pound heavier than SAFETY Kam Chancellor, and IIRC he started out playing at a little over 220, which IS safety-sized. Mario Williams won't beat Franklin or Clark with power anymore than 250 lb. Von Miller (who caught Hell here for bulking and slowing to 260) but with quickness.

[sneakers]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/16/broncos-to-interview-vance-joseph/

I don't even have words to express my utter bafflement. :shocked:

I am sure someone has already pointed out that he is black and they are just trying satisfy their Rooney rule

[Lancane]

I am sure someone has already pointed out that he is black and they are just trying satisfy their Rooney rule

That's so racist...of course he's black, don't you know that Kubiak is our minority candidate...sheesh. I am waiting for the day the league has their first Oriental, Middle Eastern, Gypsy and Jewish Coach.

[Simple Jaded]

That's so racist...of course he's black, don't you know that Kubiak is our minority candidate...sheesh. I am waiting for the day the league has their first Oriental, Middle Eastern, Gypsy and Jewish Coach.

Wasn't Sid Gillman Jewish?

[Lancane]

Wasn't Sid Gillman Jewish?

Oooh, good call. I believe he is, but I don't believe he ever flaunted the fact.