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MOtorboat
01-14-2015, 04:38 AM
The reason I want a new blood coach is simple. Expectations. My own, actually, and I'm guessing many might feel the same.

If Denver goes the nepotism route and hires Gase, it's championship or get out. If it's Kubiak, it better be championship or get out. I really don't want to see retread seasons over and over like Houston.

If it's someone new to Denver and the head coaching ranks I'm willing to bend.

Lancane
01-14-2015, 04:42 AM
I think that is sort of the problem Mo, right now the situation to most will look to be 'Win or Get Lost', or 'My way or the Highway' and that will make those without ties more leery then say Kubiak, Gase or Dennison, those with ties to the organization.

Lancane
01-14-2015, 04:46 AM
I believe that no matter what Head Coach they choose, that he will need the given the standard three or four years, no matter who they are. But then I am also not on the Super Bowl or bust wagon, I just want to see the Broncos become a continual contender without having to overpay in Free Agency every year to make it happen and be a threat to win it all at any given time.

Poet
01-14-2015, 05:47 AM
You guys really need new blood. Two coaches ago you had a longstanding coach. Then you went to another extreme with a young and brash coach. Then, back to that older and established coach who was helpful in building structure and accountability. What you haven't tried is a younger coach who has more seasons under his belt in the NFL than that other young coach.

The organization is structured now. It's not about coming in and starting from scratch, but there is enough flexibility and young talent that the coach will have some leeway in getting things done the way that he wants them. It really would be a boon to a strong and young coordinator to have this situation. He might have a great veteran QB, and if he doesn't then his team has a candidate on the roster with some decent veteran backup options available in the league. He also gets a talented defense and offense. Quarterback is of course a question that he would have to answer long term. Well, the thing about that is that most new coaches have to solve that question. Sure Atlanta doesn't have that question, but they also have an awful offensive line, a WR corps that needs replenishing, a new RB, a tight end, and of course, and most importantly, an entire defense to fix sans two positions.

The right coach can build something long term while continuing to compete now. I really think that Elway's mastery of the roster lines up with some of the utterly insane things that the Ravens' front office has been able to do for a very long time. That shit is impressive.

Dogfish is someone who supports Hamilton from Indy, which is a fine choice. I think Knowles was a guy that Denver should have targeted as well. Regardless of how you feel about him, Gase has to be looked at. Ultimately you need a guy with that energy about him that players can feed off of. That does not seem to describe many of the veteran head coaches out there.

CrazyHorse
01-14-2015, 06:48 AM
You guys really need new blood. Two coaches ago you had a longstanding coach. Then you went to another extreme with a young and brash coach. Then, back to that older and established coach who was helpful in building structure and accountability. What you haven't tried is a younger coach who has more seasons under his belt in the NFL than that other young coach.

The organization is structured now. It's not about coming in and starting from scratch, but there is enough flexibility and young talent that the coach will have some leeway in getting things done the way that he wants them. It really would be a boon to a strong and young coordinator to have this situation. He might have a great veteran QB, and if he doesn't then his team has a candidate on the roster with some decent veteran backup options available in the league. He also gets a talented defense and offense. Quarterback is of course a question that he would have to answer long term. Well, the thing about that is that most new coaches have to solve that question. Sure Atlanta doesn't have that question, but they also have an awful offensive line, a WR corps that needs replenishing, a new RB, a tight end, and of course, and most importantly, an entire defense to fix sans two positions.

The right coach can build something long term while continuing to compete now. I really think that Elway's mastery of the roster lines up with some of the utterly insane things that the Ravens' front office has been able to do for a very long time. That shit is impressive.

Dogfish is someone who supports Hamilton from Indy, which is a fine choice. I think Knowles was a guy that Denver should have targeted as well. Regardless of how you feel about him, Gase has to be looked at. Ultimately you need a guy with that energy about him that players can feed off of. That does not seem to describe many of the veteran head coaches out there.

Bellichick is just overflowing with energy. So is Mike McCarthy.

Poet
01-14-2015, 06:54 AM
Bellichick is just overflowing with energy. So is Mike McCarthy.

Do you think that my analysis of the situation would be the same if those guys were available? Do you think that a team who was lackluster the last portion of the season, including that loss to Indy, might need some different energy? I also don't think you follow the Packers much if you think McCarthy is lacking in energy.

Come on man.

spikerman
01-14-2015, 07:34 AM
The difference is that unlike the Broncos, the Pats and Pack don't play with a lack of energy so something is obviously different. CJ Anderson was about the only one who looked like he gave a damn on Sunday and that's inexcusable.

BroncoWave
01-14-2015, 08:23 AM
I'm totally with you Mo. I would really be disappointed if we went the "former Bronco" route with Kubiak, Gase, or Dennison. To me, that would lead us on a big road to nowhere. I'd really love to see us go in the direction of Quinn, Hamilton, or that Detroit DC. I definitely think this franchise needs an infusion of new blood, not the same old same old.

EastCoastBronco
01-14-2015, 09:54 AM
I simply want a coach who is a motivator and will inspire the players to play hard every snap.
Flame me if you want but part of the reason I loved Timmy Touchdown when he was here was his ability to motivate the rest of the team to play at a higher level.
His enthusiasm rubbed off..it was evident, not so much in the final outcomes of games but in the enthusiasm and effort put forth by the team when he was here.

There is nothing more depressing than watching a team play that doesn't seem to give a damn.
I make fun of Brady for yelling and screaming all over the sidelines after he (or someone else) ***** up but you rarely see he or his team put forth a lazy effort.

Please just bring in someone who can light a fire under this team's ass.
It's been a long time since I've seen it.

Bronco9798
01-14-2015, 09:57 AM
Sign Kubiak and Let's go!!! Him and Elway are a great match!!!!!!

tomjonesrocks
01-14-2015, 10:01 AM
I'm totally with you Mo. I would really be disappointed if we went the "former Bronco" route with Kubiak, Gase, or Dennison. To me, that would lead us on a big road to nowhere. I'd really love to see us go in the direction of Quinn, Hamilton, or that Detroit DC. I definitely think this franchise needs an infusion of new blood, not the same old same old.

Start preparing for disappointment.

With Gase gone I think they're all in on Kubiak.

Quinn is going to the Falcons.

Buff
01-14-2015, 10:01 AM
I guess I don't understand why having Broncos ties or not having Broncos ties would change the expectations. Elway is Super Bowl or bust no matter who the coach is.

Florio was saying today that the expectations could be a deterrent for some coaches. Like, why would a veteran coach want to come here knowing that he could get fired after winning 4 straight divisional championships?

nevcraw
01-14-2015, 10:05 AM
I really want nothing to do with Kubes. He seems like and offensive version of Fox. Not enough fire or creativity IMO in his time with Houston. Those teams always under achieved. i could be wrong but he doesn't give me confidence like a young but proven coordinator.. If you are going to a Bronco retread it better be Dennison. He's got a ton of fire and and bleeds blue and orange and was part of the all of the losses and wins as player and coach during the 80/90's. He's coached on both sides of the ball and nailed it the first time he came to town when they decided on the more established fox.
But having said that I would prefer new blood from a different system. say DQ or even Austin.

Traveler
01-14-2015, 10:30 AM
I simply want a coach who is a motivator and will inspire the players to play hard every snap.
Flame me if you want but part of the reason I loved Timmy Touchdown when he was here was his ability to motivate the rest of the team to play at a higher level.
His enthusiasm rubbed off..it was evident, not so much in the final outcomes of games but in the enthusiasm and effort put forth by the team when he was here.

There is nothing more depressing than watching a team play that doesn't seem to give a damn.
I make fun of Brady for yelling and screaming all over the sidelines after he (or someone else) ***** up but you rarely see he or his team put forth a lazy effort.

Please just bring in someone who can light a fire under this team's ass.
It's been a long time since I've seen it.

I am so with you here! When players like Chris Harris somewhat echo these sentiments, you know there is more fire than smoke.

While listening to SiriusXM NFL radio this morning, Bob Papa & David Diehl were talking about Elway's press conference yesterday. Specifically, how Elway and Fox had diffences on team motivation & preparation. The hosts seemed to come from the standpoint that coaches aren't there to get players motivated to play the games. That if you are a player in the NFL, that should be motivation enough to be excited to play in any game. I kind of see his point, but what I feel he is fails to acknowledge is that not all indiviuals are self-motivators. As in any type of business, you get the best out of anyone by motivating and challenging them.

Starting with the SB last year, there were several supposed "statement" games this year when we expected this team to come out motivated and aggressive and it seemed like they were just going through the motions. As Elway stated, you want feel like you went out "kicking and screaming," when games matter most. We've seen the opposite far to many times.

Traveler
01-14-2015, 10:39 AM
I guess I don't understand why having Broncos ties or not having Broncos ties would change the expectations. Elway is Super Bowl or bust no matter who the coach is.

Florio was saying today that the expectations could be a deterrent for some coaches. Like, why would a veteran coach want to come here knowing that he could get fired after winning 4 straight divisional championships?

I fail to see why that would be a deterrent? You'd think any coach would love that challenge. If you come in thinking I could get fired because of those expectations, you shouldn't apply for the job in the first place. Realistic or not, that the Broncos' standard. You just have to accept the challenge and give it your best shot!

Northman
01-14-2015, 10:55 AM
I fail to see why that would be a deterrent? You'd think any coach would love that challenge. If you come in thinking I could get fired because of those expectations, you shouldn't apply for the job in the first place. Realistic or not, that the Broncos' standard. You just have to accept the challenge and give it your best shot!

Same here, i want a coach who has high expectations of himself and of his team. No matter what team you coach you should always be striving for a championship.

Buff
01-14-2015, 10:57 AM
I fail to see why that would be a deterrent? You'd think any coach would love that challenge. If you come in thinking I could get fired because of those expectations, you shouldn't apply for the job in the first place. Realistic or not, that the Broncos' standard. You just have to accept the challenge and give it your best shot!

I tend to agree - it shouldn't be a deterrent for the type of coach we are trying to attract... We want someone who accepts the challenge of setting the bar extremely high.

But it's a fair point - there is the business side of things where coaches desire stability... I certainly don't think we are viewed as being an unstable franchise, but Elway's gotta choose wisely so that we don't fall into that pattern.

weazel
01-14-2015, 10:59 AM
my only problem with what I see as Elway's philosophy is he's going to go gangbusters trying to get a championship and at the end of the madness there will be nothing left on the roster but old used up players and nothing for the future.

chazoe60
01-14-2015, 11:32 AM
my only problem with what I see as Elway's philosophy is he's going to go gangbusters trying to get a championship and at the end of the madness there will be nothing left on the roster but old used up players and nothing for the future.

I don't see that at all. Look no further than the Oz pick for evidence that John cares about the future. Whether you believe Oz will be the guy or not he was brought here to have something for the future. Johns drafts have been good IMHO and he has talked many times about winning now and in the future.

Runamok
01-14-2015, 12:17 PM
Do you think that my analysis of the situation would be the same if those guys were available? Do you think that a team who was lackluster the last portion of the season, including that loss to Indy, might need some different energy? I also don't think you follow the Packers much if you think McCarthy is lacking in energy.

Come on man.

I don't think that is what he was saying. I think he was trying to point out that lack of energy isn't really the problem, so bringing in an energetic (young or old) coach won't result in squat.

Look at all the great coaches in history and ask yourself what were the common threads running through all their programs and philosophies.

I submit that all incorporate a couple of very basic standards regarding their team.
In a nutshell, it's "Players...since we pay you and reserve a valuable roster spot for you, we expect the following:
1. Do everything that we ask of you
2. Follow our rules.... no exceptions
3. We expect your best effort, everyday....not just game day
4. If you have a problem with any of this and feel like debating, please let the me(the HC) know so he can escort you to the door.

McCarthy and Belichick are two of the best examples among current HCs. But look at Lombardi, Noll, Shula and Parcells, just for example. These people absolutely would get rid of anybody who didn't toe their line and accept their rules.

Keeping your job is the only motivation you need, if you are the type of player these guys want on their roster.

Poet
01-14-2015, 03:03 PM
Players often take on the identity of their coaches. You see it in the Harbaughs, well Harbaugh now, Tomlin, Coughlin, etc. etc. etc.

I think that what you guys seem to think that I am saying is that if you get a young guy who literally runs around like a chicken with its head cut off the team will be fine. That is definitely not it.

In the NFL keeping your job isn't the only motivation you need because as long as you're not an awful player or injured you can usually get another job. Even then, that hard line approach that some coaches take to bouncing players only works with the best of them. Who here wants to defend the Eagles getting rid of DeSean Jackson right now? Anyone think that his presence on the field might have been worth another win to the Eagles? Anyone think that their franchise can follow the contemporary 'Patriot Way' as successfully as New England? Tom Coughlin, while being a hardass, had to mitigate some of his hardassitude to get his team back. I'm not saying that coaches can't be hardcore and all that, but the days of that old school ******y -which I dig- is dead.

And again, I'm really confused as how a person can cite to McCarthy as a coach lacking energy.

Joel
01-14-2015, 07:21 PM
Players often take on the identity of their coaches. You see it in the Harbaughs, well Harbaugh now, Tomlin, Coughlin, etc. etc. etc.

I think that what you guys seem to think that I am saying is that if you get a young guy who literally runs around like a chicken with its head cut off the team will be fine. That is definitely not it.

In the NFL keeping your job isn't the only motivation you need because as long as you're not an awful player or injured you can usually get another job. Even then, that hard line approach that some coaches take to bouncing players only works with the best of them. Who here wants to defend the Eagles getting rid of DeSean Jackson right now? Anyone think that his presence on the field might have been worth another win to the Eagles? Anyone think that their franchise can follow the contemporary 'Patriot Way' as successfully as New England? Tom Coughlin, while being a hardass, had to mitigate some of his hardassitude to get his team back. I'm not saying that coaches can't be hardcore and all that, but the days of that old school ******y -which I dig- is dead.

And again, I'm really confused as how a person can cite to McCarthy as a coach lacking energy.
You're not wrong, but I believe the difference is mainly that we have far more NFL divas now and (far more importantly) todays owners are more inclined to side with talented mercurial players earning and generating lots of revenue. It's hard for a coach OR GM to be disciplinarians when really popular and prominent but underperforming and unruly players can and do go over their heads to their bosses and/or the public. The first time a coach gives an order only to retract it when a disgruntled player gets the owner to FORCE him, all his credibility with the whole team is shot.

That's how a guy who pissed off a two-time SB-winning coach so badly he only referred to him in public as "The Player" all year managed to get Parcells fired in Dallas, but how much did The Player accomplish for them? For all the notorious politics that went down between Elway, Shanahan and Reeves for Mr. Bowlens benefit, I'm just not sure Elway's susceptible to that schtick, if only because he's a bigger and more popular part of the Broncos legacy than anyone else who is or probably ever will be any part of the organization. Anyone going over the coachs head to Elway probably gets nothing but a bored stare.

Poet
01-14-2015, 07:23 PM
I really like that post, Joel. Well said.