Elway's end-of-season press conference - 1-13-15

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Watch live as President of Football Operations/General Manager John Elway meets the media at approximately 12 p.m. MST.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Elways-end-of-season-press-conference/fbf8e38e-307e-4f5b-a1e9-22011997a491

NFL network also stated they will carry it live, and some tv stations locally said they would carry it.

[VonDoom]

Well, this should be entertaining.

[GEM]

Set and ready for live stream. This should be interesting!

[TXBRONC]

I'm ready.

[AgentOrange]

Thanks for the heads-up. Tuned-in and ready to receive!

[CoachChaz]

He isnt going to say anything we dont already know

[TXBRONC]

He isnt going to say anything we dont already know

I still prefer hearing it from him rather than a go-between.

[Buff]

"The main thing was that we disagreed on how to get to the next level."

[Buff]

Elway wants Peyton back and thinks he's part of our plan moving forward. So there you have it. Peyton's not gonna walk away from that money. Peyton will be our QB in 2015-2016.

[weazel]

keep updating...

[VonDoom]

Elway wants Peyton back and thinks he's part of our plan moving forward. So there you have it. Peyton's not gonna walk away from that money. Peyton will be our QB in 2015-2016.

I don't know if you can say that with 100% confidence. He's beaten up and getting older. He might decide it's not worth the grind.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

"The main thing was that we disagreed on how to get to the next level."

Never a good recipe for success. Especially if this was an ongoing problem as it seems to have been.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Elway wants Peyton back and thinks he's part of our plan moving forward. So there you have it. Peyton's not gonna walk away from that money. Peyton will be our QB in 2015-2016.

It sounds that Elway is in the dark as much as the rest of us with regard to Peyton's intentions however. Won't know anything until March I assume.

[Buff]

Elway implies that Fox explored his options with other teams in the time between the game ended on Sunday and they met on Monday at 2pm.

[VonDoom]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 2m2 minutes ago

Elway: "We've got to peak a little bit later than we peaked."

Jon Heath ‏@JonHeathNFL 3m3 minutes ago

"I am looking for a guy that's very smart, competitive, and aching to win a World Championship, like I am." -- Elway

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 1m1 minute ago

Elway, on whether Manning can do it health-wise: "I can't speak for Peyton & I won't speak for Peyton. Only Peyton knows how his body feels"

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 28s29 seconds ago

Elway: Jay Glazer's report re: John Fox "did not" play a role in the events of the last 36 hours.

[Northman]

Yea Buff, keep updating. Im at work and cant watch.....

[VonDoom]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 27s27 seconds ago

Elway: "If we had won the Super Bowl, this probably would not have happened." Elway said hasn't talked to any candidates yet

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Elway gingerly sidesteps the question on what this team is missing.

Heart and soul is the obvious answer.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Elway insinuating that there's some options out there that he "knows a lot about" referring to Kubiak.


I'd almost prefer Quinn or Gase over Kube. Just an inclination... but this is why I'm not Elway.

[Buff]

"You wanna feel like you went out kicking and screaming in the last game. Two years in a row it feels like we didn't do that."

[Hawgdriver]

D Mac's question was baller. Elway totally dodged it, don't like that.

edit, his ?: "Is it safe to say it's time for Plan B?"

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Says Peyton will be involved in the process of selecting a new head coach and staff. No timetable on the process though.

[Buff]

"Peyton is going to be involved, I'm going to talk to Peyton as we go through the process." talking about consulting him during the coaching search.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Peyton will be involved with coaching process

[VonDoom]

"You wanna feel like you went out kicking and screaming in the last game. Two years in a row it feels like we didn't do that."

Interesting way of putting it but I know what he means.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Said that the offensive identity changing midseason was "a bit of an adjustment for Peyton" but otherwise downplayed any effect the change in offensive identity had on his performance.

[Lancane]

I don't like the insinuation that Manning has an opinion in the process, sounds like he's banking too much on Manning which is stupid IMHO.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

I don't like the insinuation that Manning has an opinion in the process, sounds like he's banking too much on Manning which is stupid IMHO.

Fair point but I think it'd be a mistake not to consult someone of Peyton's stature. Especially if he is going to be returning next season. In the end, the final decision rests on Elway's shoulders but all input should be taken into account and appropriately measured IMO.

[Lancane]

Said that the offensive identity changing midseason was "a bit of an adjustment for Peyton" but otherwise downplayed any effect the change in offensive identity had on his performance.

Sorry to say the offense had no identity this season, the passing attack was off kilter for most of the year compared to last and the run game was up and down but took credence in the latter half.

[VonDoom]

I don't like the insinuation that Manning has an opinion in the process, sounds like he's banking too much on Manning which is stupid IMHO.

My thought as well, actually. We have to assume that the next coach is going to be around after Manning leaves, so Manning shouldn't have a say in who that is.

[Buff]

Earlier in the press conference Elway said he wouldn't get into the disagreements he and Fox had, just that there were some...

Reading between the lines I think Elway is all-in on Manning and Fox probably wasn't. All speculation from me - but that's the sense I'm getting.

[Northman]

I don't like the insinuation that Manning has an opinion in the process, sounds like he's banking too much on Manning which is stupid IMHO.

Meh, im not shocked and i wouldnt be shocked if Elway had some say when Shanahan became HC so many moons ago.

[Lancane]

Fair point but I think it'd be a mistake not to consult someone of Peyton's stature. Especially if he is going to be returning next season. In the end, the final decision rests on Elway's shoulders but all input should be taken into account and appropriately measured IMO.

That could also be an inclination to potential coaches that Manning has more power then they will have coming in and cause Denver to lose value as an organization.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Asked if in order to persuade Peyton to come back if it's going to decide on the coach hired.

Says it's "too early to know where Peyton's at but candidates will want to know Peyton's mindset".

[weazel]

"Peyton is going to be involved, I'm going to talk to Peyton as we go through the process." talking about consulting him during the coaching search.

I think that is the wrong way to go... IF he comes back he's only going to be around for a year

[GEM]

Always want to take care of the offensive line....fire Manram yesterday then please!!!

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Sorry to say the offense had no identity this season, the passing attack was off kilter for most of the year compared to last and the run game was up and down but took credence in the latter half.

I'd agree with that a hundred percent. Perhaps "identity" was the wrong choice of word there... "style" would have been more apt.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Says both Gase and Del Rio will garner consideration for HC here.

[Buff]

Gase and Del Rio are candidates. Assistant coaches still under contract, permission to speak to other teams.

[Lancane]

I hope Elway chills on his commitment to Manning sooner rather then later, I would prefer he is committed to the organization over a single player near the end if not at his end.

[GEM]

The other coaches have NOT been released, he did give permission to talk to other opportunities but they are under contract still.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

That seemed rather quick, did it not?

[underrated29]

I don't like the insinuation that Manning has an opinion in the process, sounds like he's banking too much on Manning which is stupid IMHO.


I think it is great.
I have blame for manning but it is far down my list. With manning being consutlted he can help with his knowledge of the game and his ability as an OC....Manning can determine if the new coach will install an offense manning can run, or keep the same but not be so predictable.....

weather people want to admit or not, peyton is a brilliant OC. I cannot for the life of me (I havent looked just off memory) ever seen peyton run an offense- with WORSE weapons then he has now- and not score more then 13 points. I am sure he probably had some days in Indy where they didnt score very many, but I cannot think of one where he didnt score at least 13. He has done that or less with us twice- and thats with better weapons. It could be teams suddenly figured him out after 13 years or maybe a coordinator was his anchor. Either way, him as a consult will be good because Peyton has an amazing mind for the game. If its someone he likes and can bounce ideas off of and whatnot- that can only mean good things! Good things!

[Lancane]

I don't see Gase leaving the meeting tonight with San Francisco without a contract. Del Rio could well be signed by Oakland by the end of the night as well. Neither team will want Denver to have a shot at their top HC candidates IMHO.

[BroncoJoe]

Elway wants Peyton back and thinks he's part of our plan moving forward. So there you have it. Peyton's not gonna walk away from that money. Peyton will be our QB in 2015-2016.

I didn't get that at all. I mean what else is he going to say?

[weazel]

I don't see Gase leaving the meeting tonight with San Francisco without a contract. Del Rio could well be signed by Oakland by the end of the night as well. Neither team will want Denver to have a shot at their top HC candidates IMHO.

Here's hoping

[Buff]

"By no means did I think Gase or Del Rios minds were somewhere else on Sunday. They've earned opportunities to interview. I don't think it affected them, they are professionals, they've done a hell of a job all year."

Didn't mention where Fox's head was at!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Sorry to say the offense had no identity this season, the passing attack was off kilter for most of the year compared to last and the run game was up and down but took credence in the latter half.

Wasn't the first part of the season when Peyton was breaking records?

[G_Money]

I hope Elway chills on his commitment to Manning sooner rather then later, I would prefer he is committed to the organization over a single player near the end if not at his end.

I think John is letting candidates know that the job starts off with a HOFer at the helm for a year or two so they have time to get their QBOTF. It's not gonna be "come coach the Broncos led by Bryan Hoyer." You could be right, though, in that it could come back to haunt him. A lot of coaches harbor a desire to be the most powerful man in the organization. With Elway and Manning here, for the first couple years the new HC could be the third-most powerful. There are benefits and drawbacks.

We'll see if Manning comes back first.

[AgentOrange]

Notes:

Parted ways with Fox with respect and as friends
Disagreed with each other on how to reach the next level. Wouldn't go into detail.
Not discussing future with Peyton until they're away from the game for a while. 4-5 weeks down the road will discuss
Wants Peyton back but leaves it up to Peyton on whether he wants to come back. Believes Peyton still has gas in the tank
(Lost video feed for a couple of minutes at this point)
Haven't contacted anyone about HC job as of yet but believes there's several quality candidates
Peyton will be involved with HC selection
Believes team hasn't peaked at the right time to win championship
There is no Plan B, only Plan A, which is to win a championship
Two years in a row they didn't go out kicking and screaming
Elway's job is to give the players the best opportunity for a championship. Is disappointed for the players for the loss. Is excited for the opportunity to build a better team
He continuesto take special interest in the O-line and protecting the QB
Didn't discuss how much Peyton's injury effected play
Existing backup QBs progressing as expected considering limited playing time
Gase & Del Rio are still under contract, are candidates for Broncos HC and have permission to speak with other teams
Disappointed in team’s lack of fire.

[weazel]

Wasn't the first part of the season when Peyton was breaking records?

I dont recall that. I remember the team breaking records last season, and then recording a giant loss in the superbowl

[BroncoJoe]

D Mac's question was baller. Elway totally dodged it, don't like that.

edit, his ?: "Is it safe to say it's time for Plan B?"

Dmac is an idiot.

I personally loved Elway's answer.

[VonDoom]

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 3m3 minutes ago

Elway: "I don't know why we didn't have more fire."

Yeah, me neither ...

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2m2 minutes ago

Elway "I do believe there's a huge jump from getting to Super Bowl to winning Super Bowl. I was around it (as a player)."

[Lancane]

I think it is great.
I have blame for manning but it is far down my list. With manning being consutlted he can help with his knowledge of the game and his ability as an OC....Manning can determine if the new coach will install an offense manning can run, or keep the same but not be so predictable.....

weather people want to admit or not, peyton is a brilliant OC. I cannot for the life of me (I havent looked just off memory) ever seen peyton run an offense- with WORSE weapons then he has now- and not score more then 13 points. I am sure he probably had some days in Indy where they didnt score very many, but I cannot think of one where he didnt score at least 13. He has done that or less with us twice- and thats with better weapons. It could be teams suddenly figured him out after 13 years or maybe a coordinator was his anchor. Either way, him as a consult will be good because Peyton has an amazing mind for the game. If its someone he likes and can bounce ideas off of and whatnot- that can only mean good things! Good things!

Running an offense from under center doesn't make him a great Offensive Coordinator, makes him a great field general. There is a huge difference, actually you'd find that only about 5% of quarterbacks become good offensive minded coaches, most are utter failures at coaching. Secondly, allowing Manning to have so much say could make candidates very, very leery about coming to an organization where a mere player has so much power.

[Buff]

I didn't get that at all. I mean what else is he going to say?

He mentioned Peyton 500 times throughout the presser. It couldn't have been any more clear that he wants Peyton back...

He could have been noncommittal about how they have to go through the evaluation process, etc.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Silly question really. If a professional coach is letting other potential opportunities compromise their ability to do their current job, they shouldn't be coaching.

[tubby]

Was Peyton kicking and screaming on Sunday?

[weazel]

Was Peyton kicking and screaming on Sunday?

that's just not his demeanor. he doesnt kick and scream... he stands in one spot and throws. If the teams didn't switch sides each quarter, he would grow moss on his back

[Buff]

Silly question really. If a professional coach is letting other potential opportunities compromise their ability to do their current job, they shouldn't be coaching.

It should go without saying, but it's not silly in light of Sunday's Glazer report.

[VonDoom]

If Elway expects to not talk to Manning for 4-5 weeks, how does he think he'll be involved in the coaching search? Surely we'll have someone by then. All these guys on the market will be gone by that point.

Also:

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 9m9 minutes ago

Harbaugh says Gary Kubiak has told him he plans to remain with Ravens, says Broncos haven't reached out

[BroncoJoe]

He mentioned Peyton 500 times throughout the presser. It couldn't have been any more clear that he wants Peyton back...

He could have been noncommittal about how they have to go through the evaluation process, etc.

Because Peyton was brought up 500 times...

He's not going to be noncommittal about Manning. He's going to play politics, regardless of how he feels.

Either way, it's our opinions and nothing more.

[Buff]

Was Peyton kicking and screaming on Sunday?

He was really zipping those 5 yard outs with authority as we needed 2 scores, 80+ yards with 3 minutes left!

[Slick]

He mentioned Peyton a lot but started by saying Peyton should take like 5 weeks before making a decision on returning, then later says he will absolutely be keeping Peyton in the loop as far as coaching candidates.

Weird.

[GEM]

Elway confirmed they haven't reached out to anyone.

Get to movin, John. :laugh:

[Buff]

Because Peyton was brought up 500 times...

He's not going to be noncommittal about Manning. He's going to play politics, regardless of how he feels.

Either way, it's our opinions and nothing more.

Yeah, except he didn't play politics. He gushed over Manning and was very definitive that we want him back next year.

[BroncoJoe]

"We want him back, BUT...."

I do think Elway would like Manning back, but also think he's ready to move forward if necessary.

[Lancane]

Wasn't the first part of the season when Peyton was breaking records?

The records were set up at that point to be had for Manning Carol, in no way was the passing game as proficient as it was last year. It stuttered a lot, Manning the previous season had several 400 yard outings with QBR that was astounding, his average this year was less then 300 yards per game, even when the run game sputtered or was non existent.

[Slick]

If Elway expects to not talk to Manning for 4-5 weeks, how does he think he'll be involved in the coaching search? Surely we'll have someone by then. All these guys on the market will be gone by that point.

Also:

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 9m9 minutes ago

Harbaugh says Gary Kubiak has told him he plans to remain with Ravens, says Broncos haven't reached out

Yeah, that was weird

[VonDoom]

He mentioned Peyton a lot but started by saying Peyton should take like 5 weeks before making a decision on returning, then later says he will absolutely be keeping Peyton in the loop as far as coaching candidates.

Weird.

Heh. I posted something like that on the last page. The timetable seems a little off there, no?

[wayninja]

That could also be an inclination to potential coaches that Manning has more power then they will have coming in and cause Denver to lose value as an organization.

Agreed 100%. The deference to manning HAS to end. Even if that means he's gone.

He may have a ton of football IQ, but he's not a coach. Period. There's an old saying about cooks in the kitchen, and it doesn't end well for the diners.

[Hawgdriver]

Dmac is an idiot.

I personally loved Elway's answer.

Why? Dmac asked the most important question hovering in the room to get right to the heart of the matter, and Elway couldn't say with conviction that Plan A--PFM winning championships--was still viable. He morphed Plan A from PFM to "winning championships." To me it shows lack of vision. He's hamstrung by his QB. Not pretty. We all see it, but it looks like he's not willing to face the music. At best, he's clinging to a hope that PFM will come back and be healthy for 19-20 games next year, ... but he's not able to just come out and say it, because he's still got all his eggs in the PFM basket but can't rely on it.

[Magnificent Seven]

Notes:

Parted ways with Fox with respect and as friends
Disagreed with each other on how to reach the next level. Wouldn't go into detail.
Not discussing future with Peyton until they're away from the game for a while. 4-5 weeks down the road will discuss
Wants Peyton back but leaves it up to Peyton on whether he wants to come back. Believes Peyton still has gas in the tank
(Lost video feed for a couple of minutes at this point)
Haven't contacted anyone about HC job as of yet but believes there's several quality candidates
Peyton will be involved with HC selection
Believes team hasn't peaked at the right time to win championship
There is no Plan B, only Plan A, which is to win a championship
Two years in a row they didn't go out kicking and screaming
Elway's job is to give the players the best opportunity for a championship. Is disappointed for the players for the loss. Is excited for the opportunity to build a better team
He continuesto take special interest in the O-line and protecting the QB
Didn't discuss how much Peyton's injury effected play
Existing backup QBs progressing as expected considering limited playing time
Gase & Del Rio are still under contract, are candidates for Broncos HC and have permission to speak with other teams
Disappointed in team’s lack of fire.

Thank you very much for taking some notes. I really appreciate that. I am a Deaf fan and I couldn't understand what John Elway is saying. I wish they could put closed caption on video. Thanks, again.

[Timmy!]

I feel pretty good about where this team will be sitting come September. Elway will get it right.

[wayninja]

Yeah, except he didn't play politics. He gushed over Manning and was very definitive that we want him back next year.

With respect, It's not the first time I've seen Elway gush over a QB and proclaim that he's coming back next year only to change course.

I know, it's not the same situation, but it's there nonetheless.

[CoachChaz]

Until someone comes up with a better option at QB, we should ALL be gushing over Manning and hoping he comes back. Especially if we want to win a championship next year. That being said...Manning is still a part of this organization and quite frankly...the face of the franchise. So, I'd expect Elway and anyone else in the organization to not only want him back, but to be a significant part of the "next step" that was referred to.

People read into shit a little too much sometimes.

[BroncoJoe]

Why? Dmac asked the most important question hovering in the room to get right to the heart of the matter, and Elway couldn't say with conviction that Plan A--PFM winning championships--was still viable. He morphed Plan A from PFM to "winning championships." To me it shows lack of vision. He's hamstrung by his QB. Not pretty. We all see it, but it looks like he's not willing to face the music. At best, he's clinging to a hope that PFM will come back and be healthy for 19-20 games next year, ... but he's not able to just come out and say it, because he's still got all his eggs in the PFM basket but can't rely on it.

Plan A is to win a championship. There is no Plan B.

[silkamilkamonico]

He was really zipping those 5 yard outs with authority as we needed 2 scores, 80+ yards with 3 minutes left!

Shouldn't have been playing. ALready been discussed that his injury would have affected him like a baseball pitcher trying to push off towards the mound. No power there. Dude shouldn't have been playing at all, and that was another coaching blunder. Not to mention that apparently the entire team, via Chris Harris, knew Denver wouldn't win because Manning wasn't healthy. Doesn't say much for the attitude of our defense, that's for sure.

[silkamilkamonico]

What was DMac's question?

[TXBRONC]

If Elway expects to not talk to Manning for 4-5 weeks, how does he think he'll be involved in the coaching search? Surely we'll have someone by then. All these guys on the market will be gone by that point.

Also:

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 9m9 minutes ago

Harbaugh says Gary Kubiak has told him he plans to remain with Ravens, says Broncos haven't reached out

Elway said he would be staying in touch with Manning while he's away. I don't think Elway wants to wait four to five weeks before he has a new head coach. What I could see happening is Elway goes through the process of getting candidates lined up and then let Manning know who they are. When the new head coach is selected Elway will let know who it is and there is good he'll be asked break off his vacation (at least temporarily) to come back to Denver for press conference and photo op with the new head coach. I

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I dont recall that. I remember the team breaking records last season, and then recording a giant loss in the superbowl

Here's one I remember in 2014 - article dated Oct 19, 2014

Peyton Manning added another record to his collection Sunday night, tossing his 509th career touchdown pass to break Brett Favre's all-time mark.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/19/peyton-manning-nfl-record-most-career-touchdown-passes-brett-favre

[weazel]

Shouldn't have been playing. ALready been discussed that his injury would have affected him like a baseball pitcher trying to push off towards the mound. No power there. Dude shouldn't have been playing at all, and that was another coaching blunder. Not to mention that apparently the entire team, via Chris Harris, knew Denver wouldn't win because Manning wasn't healthy. Doesn't say much for the attitude of our defense, that's for sure.

thats the problem with not having a veteran backup. Oz wasnt going to do any more than Manning did. Sometimes it pays to have 3 QB's on the roster.

[Timmy!]

"We want him back, BUT...."

I do think Elway would like Manning back, but also think he's ready to move forward if necessary.

That what I got out of it. Elway even said he knows how it is physically near the end, and that he knew Peyton needed time away to think. The decision is Peyton's. Elway knows he is our best chance for next season and I'm (just personal opinion) now about 80% sure Peyton will be back, but Elway is prepared to move on if needed.

[weazel]

Here's one I remember in 2014 - article dated Oct 19, 2014

Peyton Manning added another record to his collection Sunday night, tossing his 509th career touchdown pass to break Brett Favre's all-time mark.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/19/peyton-manning-nfl-record-most-career-touchdown-passes-brett-favre

well thats not really setting season records... thats just reaching a number over a career. I get its a record, but not the same. Favre did the same thing and look how bad he looked at the end

[wayninja]

What was DMac's question?

He asked something along the lines of "is it safe to assume you are going with Plan B".

Like Elway has a lot of unprotected sex or something.

[tomjonesrocks]

I don't see Gase leaving the meeting tonight with San Francisco without a contract. Del Rio could well be signed by Oakland by the end of the night as well. Neither team will want Denver to have a shot at their top HC candidates IMHO.

If JDR has a legit shot at Denver and he takes the Raiders without doing the Denver interview he deserves what he gets.

[wayninja]

If JDR has a legit shot at Denver and he takes the Raiders without doing the Denver interview he deserves what he gets.

31g0YE61PLQ

[Lancane]

Until someone comes up with a better option at QB, we should ALL be gushing over Manning and hoping he comes back. Especially if we want to win a championship next year. That being said...Manning is still a part of this organization and quite frankly...the face of the franchise. So, I'd expect Elway and anyone else in the organization to not only want him back, but to be a significant part of the "next step" that was referred to.

People read into shit a little too much sometimes.

Or see a guy hamstrung in a love affair that could cost the organization much more then he can see. If Manning was the quarterback of the future with another ten seasons I readily agree he should have some input, at this stage not so much.

And what is up with Championship, Championship, Championship? There is more to a team then Championships, like building a continual contender that is more then one and done. This is what made fans turn on Shanahan, he was continually focused on the here and now rather then on both, especially the future and in the end it cost him.

[VonDoom]

Elway said he would be staying in touch with Manning while he's away. I don't think Elway wants to wait four to five weeks before he has a new head coach. What I could see happening is Elway goes through the process of getting candidates lined up and then let Manning know who they are. When the new head coach is selected Elway will let know who it is and there is good he'll be asked break off his vacation (at least temporarily) to come back to Denver for press conference and photo op with the new head coach. I

I could see it going down like this. I mean, any HC candidate is going to want to know whether they have Peyton Manning at QB next year, so something will have to be decided one way or the other. I just remember Manning's words about kind of doing a mental check each year before OTA's about whether he's ready to go through the practice grind for another year. Normally, that's fine, but with the coaching situation in flux, it'd be nice to know where everyone stands as important decisions are being made.

[wayninja]

Or see a guy hamstrung in a love affair that could cost the organization much more then he can see. If Manning was the quarterback of the future with another ten seasons I readily agree he should have some input, at this stage not so much.

And what is up with Championship, Championship, Championship? There is more to a team then Championships, like building a continual contender that is more then one and done. This is what made fans turn on Shanahan, he was continually focused on the here and now rather then on both, especially the future and in the end it cost him.

It's just a little too much platitude, cliche to just say the plan is to win championships. I mean, that's everyone's plan, it doesn't tell you much.

He should shoot for world domination and settle for a championship.

[Northman]

Why? Dmac asked the most important question hovering in the room to get right to the heart of the matter, and Elway couldn't say with conviction that Plan A--PFM winning championships--was still viable. He morphed Plan A from PFM to "winning championships." To me it shows lack of vision. He's hamstrung by his QB. Not pretty. We all see it, but it looks like he's not willing to face the music. At best, he's clinging to a hope that PFM will come back and be healthy for 19-20 games next year, ... but he's not able to just come out and say it, because he's still got all his eggs in the PFM basket but can't rely on it.

I dont know, i dont see that at all. Elway was not entirely sure he would end up coming back for the second SB run so really John said all the right things in terms of it being up to Peyton if he decides to come back. But shit, Bronco players, coaches, and fans all wanted John to comeback for a possible threepeat. For now he has to have his eggs in the Manning basket because the goal is still to win now if possible. Until Manning makes up his mind the plan has to remain with Manning train.

[Hawgdriver]

Coach, you think Manning gives the Broncos a chance at winning a championship next year? I have a hard time seeing it.

First, if it's a repetitive strain injury like some are saying. This means his practice time, reps, and attempts per game all need to be limited in order for him to peak in February. A new coach will have to swallow this. If the JTs and Welker are gone, and the new coach wants to install another system, you think this is viable? Will Manning even be able to excel in another system that isn't the circa 2013 Manning offense? I just don't see how the Broncos get to a championship without going to a run-first offense like Seattle and SF used the past few years. And those teams could benefit from mobility at quarterback to shore up the predictability in their scheme.

I just don't see how all-in on PFM is a championship option. I don't know how many worthy HC candidates will be willing to hamstring themselves this way. I guess my mind is just about made up on PFM's ability to deliver a championship, and I'm ready to begin Plan B.

[Timmy!]

JDR is gone. Gase is likely gone, but probably has more interest from Elway than JDR. Likely, Elway knew he wasn't getting (or didn't want) either, and wasn't going to burn bridges and show them respect. The Duke has PR down to a science.

[BroncoWave]

Here's one I remember in 2014 - article dated Oct 19, 2014

Peyton Manning added another record to his collection Sunday night, tossing his 509th career touchdown pass to break Brett Favre's all-time mark.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/19/peyton-manning-nfl-record-most-career-touchdown-passes-brett-favre

That's a little different though. It's a career record that he was pretty much guaranteed to break heading into the season. That's not the same as putting up single-season or single-game records.

[Hawgdriver]

Plan A is to win a championship. There is no Plan B.

Now you are doing it too! :lol:

How did the PFM get mysteriously dropped from the equation?

[Northman]

existing backup qbs progressing as expected considering limited playing time

boom

[CoachChaz]

Or see a guy hamstrung in a love affair that could cost the organization much more then he can see. If Manning was the quarterback of the future with another ten seasons I readily agree he should have some input, at this stage not so much.

And what is up with Championship, Championship, Championship? There is more to a team then Championships, like building a continual contender that is more then one and done. This is what made fans turn on Shanahan, he was continually focused on the here and now rather then on both, especially the future and in the end it cost him.

Again...what part of any of this has to do with the future? Manning is the QB and has very limited time left. He also does NOT have a back-up QB that is ready to walk in and lead the team to a Championship. So until a new coach is in place with a QB that is competent to lead the team, we are left with Peyton. That means...for the moment...we are focused on what we can do NOW...not over the next 5 years.

But I'll play along. Wasn't Oz an Elway draft pick? If Elway felt Oz was the future then and still does now...then what's all the fuss about? Right NOW we have a HOF QB, who, until we hear otherwise, will be the QB of this team.

[underrated29]

Running an offense from under center doesn't make him a great Offensive Coordinator, makes him a great field general. There is a huge difference, actually you'd find that only about 5% of quarterbacks become good offensive minded coaches, most are utter failures at coaching. Secondly, allowing Manning to have so much say could make candidates very, very leery about coming to an organization where a mere player has so much power.


I think you are putting too much power in mannings hands and too little in Elways. Elways does not ask manning for permission. Elways consults his HOF QB and then does whatever the **** Elways wants to do. Any HC who doesnt see or know this should NOT be our HC





He was really zipping those 5 yard outs with authority as we needed 2 scores, 80+ yards with 3 minutes left!

Are we going to blame this on the OC who calls the plays the QB who runs the plays hes told?
People here seem to want to blame peyton for all of the bad plays and praise Gase for all of the good ones. It is 100% the opposite of what it should be.

[Buff]

I think you are putting too much power in mannings hands and too little in Elways. Elways does not ask manning for permission. Elways consults his HOF QB and then does whatever the **** Elways wants to do. Any HC who doesnt see or know this should NOT be our HC






Are we going to blame this on the OC who calls the plays the QB who runs the plays hes told?
People here seem to want to blame peyton for all of the bad plays and praise Gase for all of the good ones. It is 100% the opposite of what it should be.

You are honestly turning into a crazy person with your anti-Gase agenda. The QB couldn't throw the effing ball off of one leg, ur, and you still want to blame Gase? He was throwing 5 yard outs because that's all he was capable of - it wasn't because Gase told him NOT to exploit the coverage down field.

[CoachChaz]

Coach, you think Manning gives the Broncos a chance at winning a championship next year? I have a hard time seeing it.

First, if it's a repetitive strain injury like some are saying. This means his practice time, reps, and attempts per game all need to be limited in order for him to peak in February. A new coach will have to swallow this. If the JTs and Welker are gone, and the new coach wants to install another system, you think this is viable? Will Manning even be able to excel in another system that isn't the circa 2013 Manning offense? I just don't see how the Broncos get to a championship without going to a run-first offense like Seattle and SF used the past few years. And those teams could benefit from mobility at quarterback to shore up the predictability in their scheme.

I just don't see how all-in on PFM is a championship option. I don't know how many worthy HC candidates will be willing to hamstring themselves this way. I guess my mind is just about made up on PFM's ability to deliver a championship, and I'm ready to begin Plan B.

Do we have a better options now? Is there a better option available in the next few months?

While I'm waiting for a response I'll say this...you are all making this way too black or white. We arent in a scenario where a coach is either going to try to win one year with Manning OR try to rebuild and win in future years with someone else. It's a combination of both. Any candidate that comes in is going to be well aware that their task is to win now with Manning and develop a QB and team to win with later. If anyone interviews for the job and doesnt have a comprehension of that, then I have no desire for them to coach this team

[Buff]

Elway implies that Fox explored his options with other teams in the time between the game ended on Sunday and they met on Monday at 2pm.

Quoting for emphasis... Our head coach, who is under contract for 2 more years, allegedly explored his options with other teams after losing on Sunday night. I still don't quite understand how a.) that's legal under NFL tampering rules and b.) how things were apparently so dysfunctional here that Fox felt compelled to seek out his next job prematurely.

[underrated29]

You are honestly turning into a crazy person with your anti-Gase agenda. The QB couldn't throw the effing ball off of one leg, ur, and you still want to blame Gase? He was throwing 5 yard outs because that's all he was capable of - it wasn't because Gase told him NOT to exploit the coverage down field.


I would agree with you if I didnt see peyton throw deep down the sidelines repeatedly this year! Even Overthrowing our Fastest WR. Once again my friend, its not all he can do and its not his fault. Two games ago against the faid he hit deep. 3 games ago he nailed seem and post routes and deep and comebacks and hitches. In the Rain! Against the bengals who were eating our OL alive.

[Buff]

Until someone comes up with a better option at QB, we should ALL be gushing over Manning and hoping he comes back. Especially if we want to win a championship next year. That being said...Manning is still a part of this organization and quite frankly...the face of the franchise. So, I'd expect Elway and anyone else in the organization to not only want him back, but to be a significant part of the "next step" that was referred to.

People read into shit a little too much sometimes.

What are you implying that people are reading too deeply into? Did you watch the press conference?

Frankly, I came into it wondering whether we were still committed to Manning. I left the presser feeling very definitively that yes, we are committed to him.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 36m

Biggest takeaway: Many content in getting to a Super Bowl. Takes a lot more mental strength to win a Super Bowl. Why Fox was fired.

[wayninja]

Do we have a better options now? Is there a better option available in the next few months?

No one can predict the future, but if we can expect more of the same, then you are talking about choosing between evils.

[CoachChaz]

What are you implying that people are reading too deeply into? Did you watch the press conference?

Frankly, I came into it wondering whether we were still committed to Manning. I left the presser feeling very definitively that yes, we are committed to him.

People make it sound like Elway's mouth is directly connected to Manning's genitals and that any and all decisions will be made with Lord Manning's blessings.

[Buff]

People make it sound like Elway's mouth is directly connected to Manning's genitals and that any and all decisions will be made with Lord Manning's blessings.

Again - did you watch the ******* press conference? That's exactly how it is. Exactly.

[Ravage!!!]

Are we going to blame this on the OC who calls the plays the QB who runs the plays hes told?
People here seem to want to blame peyton for all of the bad plays and praise Gase for all of the good ones. It is 100% the opposite of what it should be.

Manning was on the field and could make the decision to go deeper, had he been willing or... able. But I guarantee you that the plays coming from the sidelines were intended to go 5 yards when in a desperate situation.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Quoting for emphasis... Our head coach, who is under contract for 2 more years, allegedly explored his options with other teams after losing on Sunday night. I still don't quite understand how a.) that's legal under NFL tampering rules and b.) how things were apparently so dysfunctional here that Fox felt compelled to seek out his next job prematurely.

John was ask about the Glazer thing. He downplayed that, but by it sounding that Fox was exploring his options, do you think John really was addressing the Glazer bombshell before our game, without coming out and actually saying it. As I said before, no one locally had stated anything about Fox being out if we did not beat the Colts.

[Slick]

Until someone comes up with a better option at QB, we should ALL be gushing over Manning and hoping he comes back. Especially if we want to win a championship next year. That being said...Manning is still a part of this organization and quite frankly...the face of the franchise. So, I'd expect Elway and anyone else in the organization to not only want him back, but to be a significant part of the "next step" that was referred to.

People read into shit a little too much sometimes.

Well you're more hopeful about our chances with Manning at the helm even if he is healthy than I am.

The good defensive coordinators know how to defend a 38 to 39 year old Peyton Manning. He isn't bringing the Lombardi to Denver at this stage in his career.

He'll more than likely get Denver into the playoffs and any good young QB prospects will be out of Denver's reach because of how low they are drafting.

I'm actually really surprised how many posters here want to see another year of that.

[BroncoJoe]

Again - did you watch the ******* press conference? That's exactly how it is. Exactly.

Honestly, I think you heard what you wanted to hear.

[CoachChaz]

No one can predict the future, but if we can expect more of the same, then you are talking about choosing between evils.

Then I'll repeat the fact that Oz was an Elway draft pick that was selected with the thought in mind that he would be groomed to be Manning's heir. Oz is still on the roster and Elway still seems committed to his growth, so I guess we technically have the now AND the future on the roster already. The only question left is which one should get the starts. And unless we're convinced that Oz is ready, I dont see how we can come to something other than the obvious answer.

[Hawgdriver]

Do we have a better options now? Is there a better option available in the next few months?

While I'm waiting for a response I'll say this...you are all making this way too black or white. We arent in a scenario where a coach is either going to try to win one year with Manning OR try to rebuild and win in future years with someone else. It's a combination of both. Any candidate that comes in is going to be well aware that their task is to win now with Manning and develop a QB and team to win with later. If anyone interviews for the job and doesnt have a comprehension of that, then I have no desire for them to coach this team

No, no better option. He's probably the best. But I don't see it as a championship option. There's a possibility that another option is, but the reality is that it's likely worse.

I'm making it black and white because I don't see a championship with PFM, and it frustrates me that the vision from Dove Valley is so grey. I mean, I could see success if Manning has his reps limited. But then that raises all those other questions--new receivers, new scheme, lack of mobility, Manning's desire to "play to a certain standard" that probably means he doesn't want to be constrained in such a way. It's becoming clear to me what the team is with Manning, and how that ceiling is not a championship. What is this new fiery culture going to be like when Manning is still lame-ducking through another season? I'll be as ecstatic as any fan if Manning takes another shotgun snap to open the 2015 season, full of hope, but the realist in me puts the odds at a title run near zero.

[Lancane]

Again...what part of any of this has to do with the future? Manning is the QB and has very limited time left. He also does NOT have a back-up QB that is ready to walk in and lead the team to a Championship. So until a new coach is in place with a QB that is competent to lead the team, we are left with Peyton. That means...for the moment...we are focused on what we can do NOW...not over the next 5 years.

But I'll play along. Wasn't Oz an Elway draft pick? If Elway felt Oz was the future then and still does now...then what's all the fuss about? Right NOW we have a HOF QB, who, until we hear otherwise, will be the QB of this team.

An organization which banks clearly on the here and now comes up short in the long-term because of their backwards focus. This is not only true for sports but for any successful business plan. According to your own statement, Elway should look for a Head Coach without the longevity that he so claims to want but rather someone that is willing to do as he's told from Elway on down through the front office to Peyton Manning himself? Who in the hell would want that as a Head Coach? You're banking on the attractiveness of the organization which is not so attractive when you can not do your job because you have so many bosses and one who should have less say then yourself. And almost every new coach wants a quarterback of his own, while one or two may be willing to keep Manning for one more season, you severely cut yourself at the knees telling them they have no say with their own damn team. Look at what that did to other teams in the league in the past who pulled that crap.

And as far as Osweiler, he is a Free Agent after the season. Why the hell would he return to Denver when all he has done has been a clean-up boy for an over pampered quarterback that completely rules the roost? We have a HOF quarterback that struggled throughout the year despite numbers and in the end is continually outplayed when it counts despite his majority say in running the offense. Manning is a freaking rental that is becoming costly past the best he could give, especially to those of us not wearing blinders and simply accepting that it is what is best.

[CoachChaz]

Well you're more hopeful about our chances with Manning at the helm even if he is healthy than I am.

The good defensive coordinators know how to defend a 38 to 39 year old Peyton Manning. He isn't bringing the Lombardi to Denver at this stage in his career.

He'll more than likely get Denver into the playoffs and any good young QB prospects will be out of Denver's reach because of how low they are drafting.

I'm actually really surprised how many posters here want to see another year of that.

Maybe I'm missing something then. Are we considering the option of cutting Manning and tanking a season so we can get a better draft pick and select ANOTHER QB so we can throw him to the fire instead of using the one we already drafted and have been grooming for 3 years?

[Buff]

Honestly, I think you heard what you wanted to hear.

Whatever. There was no gray area. He could not have been any more committal or definitive. He values his HOF QB and that presser was as much about recruiting him for next year as anything else.

[BroncoJoe]

Manning at 39 is not worth $20MM. I hope Elway realizes that.

[Bronco9798]

Well you're more hopeful about our chances with Manning at the helm even if he is healthy than I am.

The good defensive coordinators know how to defend a 38 to 39 year old Peyton Manning. He isn't bringing the Lombardi to Denver at this stage in his career.

He'll more than likely get Denver into the playoffs and any good young QB prospects will be out of Denver's reach because of how low they are drafting.

I'm actually really surprised how many posters here want to see another year of that.

And your solution is what at this point? As of today, what is your solution going forward?

[Bronco9798]

Manning at 39 is not worth $20MM. I hope Elway realizes that.

He's not worth 20 million. I agree.

[BroncoJoe]

Whatever. There was no gray area. He could not have been any more committal or definitive. He values his HOF QB and that presser was as much about recruiting him for next year as anything else.

Whatever is right. I think he left a lot of ? marks on the table. Of course he said all the right things in relation to Manning, but his body language and actual words said otherwise.

"We'd like him back, BUT..."

[Lancane]

And your solution is what at this point? As of today, what is your solution going forward?

Sometimes the best solution is to move on, not stayed committed to the soon to be ex-wife who will not be staying in the marriage.

[wayninja]

Then I'll repeat the fact that Oz was an Elway draft pick that was selected with the thought in mind that he would be groomed to be Manning's heir. Oz is still on the roster and Elway still seems committed to his growth, so I guess we technically have the now AND the future on the roster already. The only question left is which one should get the starts. And unless we're convinced that Oz is ready, I dont see how we can come to something other than the obvious answer.

It's unlikely Oz will ever be 'ready' by the standard you are speaking of. He will play when we need him to play. At this point, I think he should start. I've honestly seen enough of Manning, but of course, that's just my opinion.

[CoachChaz]

An organization which banks clearly on the here and now comes up short in the long-term because of their backwards focus. This is not only true for sports but for any successful business plan. According to your own statement, Elway should look for a Head Coach without the longevity that he so claims to want but rather someone that is willing to do as he's told from Elway on down through the front office to Peyton Manning himself? Who in the hell would want that as a Head Coach? You're banking on the attractiveness of the organization which is not so attractive when you can not do your job because you have so many bosses and one who should have less say then yourself. And almost every new coach wants a quarterback of his own, while one or two may be willing to keep Manning for one more season, you severely cut yourself at the knees telling them they have no say with their own damn team. Look at what that did to other teams in the league in the past who pulled that crap.

And as far as Osweiler, he is a Free Agent after the season. Why the hell would he return to Denver when all he has done has been a clean-up boy for an over pampered quarterback that completely rules the roost? We have a HOF quarterback that struggled throughout the year despite numbers and in the end is continually outplayed when it counts despite his majority say in running the offense. Manning is a freaking rental that is becoming costly past the best he could give, especially to those of us not wearing blinders and simply accepting that it is what is best.

You're right...who would want to be the head coach of a team that has 9 Pro Bowlers, a good young core and a GM committed to winning as opposed to the likes of Chicago or Oakland or the Jets. What the hell was I thinking? Same goes for Oz. Why would he want to stick around and be the QB for that same team when he could leave as a free agent and get his ass kicked playing for a bottom feeder. I must be an idiot for thinking Denver would be an attractive place to coach and play for over the next 5+ years

[Timmy!]

Welp, this board is gonna be a mess for a month or so. The Duke knows what he is doing. Relax. :D

[BroncoJoe]

I did like how he thanked himself at the beginning! LOL...

[Timmy!]

I did like how he thanked himself at the beginning! LOL...

That was epic.

[Ravage!!!]

I think Elway was saying the right things, and giving the proper credence where it needed to go. Of course he was sounding committed to Manning, somewhat, but that's because anything else woudl just cause a bigger stir and mess. John knows you stick with your QB and team to the press. Anything else, stays behind closed doors until a more definite resolution is found. Until then, I'm sure Elway has many questions as far as Manning goes, as well.

[CoachChaz]

Sometimes the best solution is to move on, not stayed committed to the soon to be ex-wife who will not be staying in the marriage.

However...if the soon-to-be ex wife's snatch tastes better than the back up plan...you continue to eat from that trough until it's gone.

[Northman]

Well you're more hopeful about our chances with Manning at the helm even if he is healthy than I am.

The good defensive coordinators know how to defend a 38 to 39 year old Peyton Manning. He isn't bringing the Lombardi to Denver at this stage in his career.

He'll more than likely get Denver into the playoffs and any good young QB prospects will be out of Denver's reach because of how low they are drafting.

I'm actually really surprised how many posters here want to see another year of that.

Uh, we are only 2 years removed from a SB appearance homie. While Manning isnt a young stud and has his own limitiations he is still very capable of getting a ring. Elway did it up until he was 37 and Brady is still competing at 37. The only thing that is still a problem to me is quality depth, creative coaching, and mental fortitude. But all of those can be corrected as we have a lot of talent already in place.

Now, i have no problem moving forward but if the injury is what prevented Manning from really being Manning than i can understand that and would be fine with giving him another shot so as long as he is healthy and not forcing it like the last part of the year. But, again those are coaching issues that can be corrected.

[BroncoJoe]

I think Elway was saying the right things, and giving the proper credence where it needed to go. Of course he was sounding committed to Manning, somewhat, but that's because anything else woudl just cause a bigger stir and mess. John knows you stick with your QB and team to the press. Anything else, stays behind closed doors until a more definite resolution is found. Until then, I'm sure Elway has many questions as far as Manning goes, as well.

I just got the impression Elway knew he was done at 38. Manning is turning 39, and has NEVER had the physical abilities of Elway.

I am now looking forward to the next stage in Broncos history. Move away from Manning, who was nothing but a rental anyway. If Brock isn't the answer, address it via draft or FA.

[underrated29]

Manning was on the field and could make the decision to go deeper, had he been willing or... able. But I guarantee you that the plays coming from the sidelines were intended to go 5 yards when in a desperate situation.


An organization which banks clearly on the here and now comes up short in the long-term because of their backwards focus. This is not only true for sports but for any successful business plan. According to your own statement, Elway should look for a Head Coach without the longevity that he so claims to want but rather someone that is willing to do as he's told from Elway on down through the front office to Peyton Manning himself? Who in the hell would want that as a Head Coach? You're banking on the attractiveness of the organization which is not so attractive when you can not do your job because you have so many bosses and one who should have less say then yourself. And almost every new coach wants a quarterback of his own, while one or two may be willing to keep Manning for one more season, you severely cut yourself at the knees telling them they have no say with their own damn team. Look at what that did to other teams in the league in the past who pulled that crap.

And as far as Osweiler, he is a Free Agent after the season. Why the hell would he return to Denver when all he has done has been a clean-up boy for an over pampered quarterback that completely rules the roost? We have a HOF quarterback that struggled throughout the year despite numbers and in the end is continually outplayed when it counts despite his majority say in running the offense. Manning is a freaking rental that is becoming costly past the best he could give, especially to those of us not wearing blinders and simply accepting that it is what is best.




i think the answer is pretty obvious is it not. If oz stays he KNOWS FOR A FACT that he WILL be the starting QB or given starter reps with little to NO compeition for the job. He dose not have to compete he will inherit it. He will also inherit our offense which is young and stacked! We have a stud LT in place, we have the WR in place, the RB....All he needs (or any qb) is a RT to bookend the Line. Our TEs are no slouch either and I am willing to bet we either sign a solid vet (fasano, Vernon, etc) or Draft at least 2 of them, one being rather high.

Why wouldnt he want to stay here. Gets a ferrari offense and no compeition to beat out for the job, its his to lose. hed be a fool to leave.

[Lancane]

You're right...who would want to be the head coach of a team that has 9 Pro Bowlers, a good young core and a GM committed to winning as opposed to the likes of Chicago or Oakland or the Jets. What the hell was I thinking? Same goes for Oz. Why would he want to stick around and be the QB for that same team when he could leave as a free agent and get his ass kicked playing for a bottom feeder. I must be an idiot for thinking Denver would be an attractive place to coach and play for over the next 5+ years

Manning is not going to be here for five damn years, he'll be lucky to finish next year without needing a wheelchair or damn stretcher. We have a good core and a solid GM, but we also have a General Manager that is head over heels for a quarterback that has little left in his damn tank and is giving him power in the process of what will be the future. And do you really see a new head coach looking at Osweiler as the quarterback of the future? Again, head coaches want their own quarterback, period...so your not only telling them they have to move forward with Manning despite his serious choking in big games but also with Osweiler who is allowed nothing more then clean-up and gets little in the way of coaching. Not always is playing behind someone too long beneficial, it can hamper a player as well...which you should damn well know. And there is attractiveness with bottom feeders in that you are building a team according to your own design and philosophies, not being told this is what you'll get and do what I say with it!

[Ravage!!!]

I just got the impression Elway knew he was done at 38. Manning is turning 39, and has NEVER had the physical abilities of Elway.

I am now looking forward to the next stage in Broncos history. Move away from Manning, who was nothing but a rental anyway. If Brock isn't the answer, address it via draft or FA.

I'm with you 100% on this. Actually, I think this is the PERFECT year to start Oz. Last year on his contract. That gives us the perfect chance to see if Oz has the ability to improve as we move forward. If not, then next year's class is much better than this year's class of QBs.

I'm with you. I personally feel that the signing of Manning was Brilliant, and we did what we could in the short time that he was here. But now its time to move on. Saw it in KC with Montana taking them to the AFC Championship. Saw it with Farve taking the Vikings to the NFC Championship. But after those seasons, it ws over for both those HoF QBs. We had a GREAT run at the Championship with Manning. We came close, but, it didn't happen. Hard to win Championships in the NFL.

[CoachChaz]

Manning is not going to be here for five damn years, he'll be lucky to finish next year without needing a wheelchair or damn stretcher. We have a good core and a solid GM, but we also have a General Manager that is head over heels for a quarterback that has little left in his damn tank and is giving him power in the process of what will be the future. And do you really see a new head coach looking at Osweiler as the quarterback of the future? Again, head coaches want their own quarterback, period...so your not only telling them they have to move forward with Manning despite his serious choking in big games but also with Osweiler who is allowed nothing more then clean-up and gets little in the way of coaching. Not always is playing behind someone too long beneficial, it can hamper a player as well...which you should damn well know. And there is attractiveness with bottom feeders in that you are building a team according to your own design and philosophies, not being told this is what you'll get and do what I say with it!

Way too many assumptions and misunderstandings in this post to address so I'll just move on.

[Northman]

i think the answer is pretty obvious is it not. If oz stays he KNOWS FOR A FACT that he WILL be the starting QB or given starter reps with little to NO compeition for the job. He dose not have to compete he will inherit it.

Oh man, the tears on this board will be delicious if that happens. He has so many haters right now. :lol:

[Lancane]

However...if the soon-to-be ex wife's snatch tastes better than the back up plan...you continue to eat from that trough until it's gone.

Yeah, despite the fact the ex-wife has been getting play from the pool boy on the side who likely has HIV! Keep eating away, while the rest of us look for something better then a few last flings with a dirty whore!

:lol:

[Bronco9798]

Sometimes the best solution is to move on, not stayed committed to the soon to be ex-wife who will not be staying in the marriage.

The best solution is to keep riding Manning and building around him until he can longer go. He is still very capable of throwing the football and making plays. You just have to keep surrounding him with solid players and keep pushing. There are no better options. You really think Elway is going to just tank and go with Brock Osweiler at QB. He knows he has nothing there as far as getting to the Super Bowl and you know that too. We all do. If Manning retires, then you go with that plan. But you just don't throw Peyton out the door and have nobody to lead the team at the QB position. So yeah, no, you don't divorce him yet. Elway went after him, he didn't come looking for Elway. John isn't just going to cut ties with him and tell him to move on.

[CoachChaz]

I'm with you 100% on this. Actually, I think this is the PERFECT year to start Oz. Last year on his contract. That gives us the perfect chance to see if Oz has the ability to improve as we move forward. If not, then next year's class is much better than this year's class of QBs.

I'm with you. I personally feel that the signing of Manning was Brilliant, and we did what we could in the short time that he was here. But now its time to move on. Saw it in KC with Montana taking them to the AFC Championship. Saw it with Farve taking the Vikings to the NFC Championship. But after those seasons, it ws over for both those HoF QBs. We had a GREAT run at the Championship with Manning. We came close, but, it didn't happen. Hard to win Championships in the NFL.

And the teams as well since their departures. lol

[Lancane]

Way too many assumptions and misunderstandings in this post to address so I'll just move on.

The only assumption is that you feel that men wanting to be Head Coaches will readily accept being told how to go about it and will want that because of certain aspects instead of seeing that it could hamper the progress of an organization and that they may be smart enough to see that.

[BroncoWave]

Oh man, the tears on this board will be delicious if that happens. He has so many haters right now. :lol:

Be careful what you wish for. It may be you eating that crow if he is what many of us think he is.

[CoachChaz]

The only assumption is that you feel that men wanting to be Head Coaches will readily accept being told how to go about it and will want that because of certain aspects instead of seeing that it could hamper the progress of an organization and that they may be smart enough to see that.

I dont recall ever saying that. All I said was that a coach would come in knowing they have Manning for at least a year as well as someone that was drafted to be his heir. If they and Elway decide to go a different route, then fine. It is what it is. But in no way am I saying that a new coach is going to be given the ultimatum that they ride Manning to death and then immediately use Oz.

[LawDog]

The next NFL press conference where the exec/coach/player etc. lays it all out on the table and tells the god's honest truth will be the absolute first time it has happened...

[Northman]

Be careful what you wish for. It may be you eating that crow if he is what many of us think he is.

It wont be because i simply dont know how he will turn out. Just havent seen enough to make a determination. I just know all the Miss Cleos on here have already put it in writing that he sucks so i know if the reigns were turned over today how much whining this board would have to endure.

[Lancane]

The best solution is to keep riding Manning and building around him until he can longer go. He is still very capable of throwing the football and making plays. You just have to keep surrounding him with solid players and keep pushing. There are no better options. You really think Elway is going to just tank and go with Brock Osweiler at QB. He knows he has nothing there as far as getting to the Super Bowl and you know that too. We all do. If Manning retires, then you go with that plan. But you just don't throw Peyton out the door and have nobody to lead the team at the QB position. So yeah, no, you don't divorce him yet. Elway went after him, he didn't come looking for Elway. John isn't just going to cut ties with him and tell him to move on.

Eventually Green Bay had to move on from Farve to see what they had in Rodgers. Fact of the matter is that Osweiler remains unknown and eventually needs to prove himself on the field not on the pine bench because we have an infatuation with a dead horse that has been beat to death. Even one more year will not miraculously change Osweiler to being ready in the eyes of the fans because he hasn't proven a damn thing...how the hell is he suppose to when he is continually sitting behind someone and not given a shot?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

For those who missed John's press conference, or those who would like to hear it again, it is now on the Broncos' website

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Elway-lays-out-why-Broncos-Coach-Fox-parted-ways/623174a2-5731-4e16-b885-b93e19c42d5c

[Bronco9798]

Eventually Green Bay had to move on from Farve to see what they had in Rodgers. Fact of the matter is that Osweiler remains unknown and eventually needs to prove himself on the field not on the pine bench because we have an infatuation with a dead horse that has been beat to death. Even one more year will not miraculously change Osweiler to being ready in the eyes of the fans because he hasn't proven a damn thing...how the hell is he suppose to when he is continually sitting behind someone and not given a shot?

Again, Elway went after Manning. He's not going to boot him out the door. It's just not going to happen. John will ride Peyton until Peyton say's, "I'm retiring". Elway is not going to make that decision for him and He's not going to cut ties with him. He's just not going to throw Peyton out the door. I don't know why you think he would. Favre didn't have an ex NFL HOF QB running the show in GB either.

[CoachChaz]

Eventually Green Bay had to move on from Farve to see what they had in Rodgers. Fact of the matter is that Osweiler remains unknown and eventually needs to prove himself on the field not on the pine bench because we have an infatuation with a dead horse that has been beat to death. Even one more year will not miraculously change Osweiler to being ready in the eyes of the fans because he hasn't proven a damn thing...how the hell is he suppose to when he is continually sitting behind someone and not given a shot?

The flip side is Rodgers was a first round pick that dropped to the end of the round for no really good reason...Oz was a 2nd rounder taken earlier than expected. But aside from that...we have no idea what coaches see in Oz at practices, etc. so it's impossible for any of us to assume what a coach thinks of a player. However...if Manning is as horrible and broke down as some say he currently is...and the organizations still prefers that to Oz...maybe we can read between the lines. It's all a guessing game.

I guess my curiosity is peaked on this because I remember a post a few years ago where someone mentioned tanking games in order to draft Andrew Luck and 99% of this board bashed that thread and said they would never want to intentionally lose. Now the mindframe is to start an inexperienced QB and hopefully get a better shot at a top young QB in the 2016 draft.

[Timmy!]

It wont be because i simply dont know how he will turn out. Just havent seen enough to make a determination. I just know all the Miss Cleos on here have already put it in writing that he sucks so i know if the reigns were turned over today how much whining this board would have to endure.

Don't ever question the plethora of highly successful armchair GM's on this board. They are infallible.

[Northman]

The flip side is Rodgers was a first round pick that dropped to the end of the round for no really good reason...Oz was a 2nd rounder taken earlier than expected. But aside from that...we have no idea what coaches see in Oz at practices, etc. so it's impossible for any of us to assume what a coach thinks of a player. However...if Manning is as horrible and broke down as some say he currently is...and the organizations still prefers that to Oz...maybe we can read between the lines. It's all a guessing game.

I guess my curiosity is peaked on this because I remember a post a few years ago where someone mentioned tanking games in order to draft Andrew Luck and 99% of this board bashed that thread and said they would never want to intentionally lose. Now the mindframe is to start an inexperienced QB and hopefully get a better shot at a top young QB in the 2016 draft.


Lmao, i remember that. I believe that was Lex that had stated that. Or maybe even Claymore.

[silkamilkamonico]

Dan Quinn
Todd Bowles
John Gruden

I don't even know who else is really out there I would want. Would have loved to of had Rex Ryan. Doesn't seem to be alot of attractive candidates. Who should be the next head coach?

[Lancane]

I dont recall ever saying that. All I said was that a coach would come in knowing they have Manning for at least a year as well as someone that was drafted to be his heir. If they and Elway decide to go a different route, then fine. It is what it is. But in no way am I saying that a new coach is going to be given the ultimatum that they ride Manning to death and then immediately use Oz.

But you're missing my point Coach, that is in Elway's over adulation and declaration of Manning having a say in the hiring process that many candidates will feel a sense of being earnestly neutered at the position despite the process. Denver would have had a lot of interest from coaches, but when you aphetically proclaim such to national media these candidates now know that Manning will be a part of the process and literally they could be weighed by his input to the organization. It's hard enough to find an attractive destination to coach, but when you have to garner the input of a player that has maybe one year left in him and then will not be a part of the organization then that can make a team far less attractive compared to another despite win-loss record or roster in which you have more say or feel you do at the least.

[silkamilkamonico]

But you're missing my point Coach, that is in Elway's over adulation and declaration of Manning having a say in the hiring process that many candidates will feel a sense of being earnestly neutered at the position despite the process. Denver would have had a lot of interest from coaches, but when you aphetically proclaim such to national media these candidates now know that Manning will be a part of the process and literally they could be weighed by his input to the organization. It's hard enough to find an attractive destination to coach, but when you have to garner the input of a player that has maybe one year left in him and then will not be a part of the organization then that can make a team far less attractive compared to another despite win-loss record or roster in which you have more say or feel you do at the least.

Pretty sure Manning isn't going to decide who the next coach is. ELway may consult him with it, and if he doesn't like what he hears from Manning, he won't listen. Pretty sure that is how it will go.

[Lancane]

Dan Quinn
Todd Bowles
John Gruden

I don't even know who else is really out there I would want. Would have loved to of had Rex Ryan. Doesn't seem to be alot of attractive candidates. Who should be the next head coach?

I am not sure that anyone is completely attractive all have there positives and negatives. I'd take Kubiak over Bowles and Gruden, I wouldn't mind Cowher but that is not likely to happen. The best candidate is now in Michigan, Harbaugh who wanted Manning during Free Agency back before he signed with Denver and is friends with Elway would have been the ideal fit...but alas that isn't going to happen now. I am really not sure, I could make a list of candidates I feel are attractive but that doesn't mean John Elway sees them as such.

[underrated29]

But you're missing my point Coach, that is in Elway's over adulation and declaration of Manning having a say in the hiring process that many candidates will feel a sense of being earnestly neutered at the position despite the process. Denver would have had a lot of interest from coaches, but when you aphetically proclaim such to national media these candidates now know that Manning will be a part of the process and literally they could be weighed by his input to the organization. It's hard enough to find an attractive destination to coach, but when you have to garner the input of a player that has maybe one year left in him and then will not be a part of the organization then that can make a team far less attractive compared to another despite win-loss record or roster in which you have more say or feel you do at the least.





I dont know man. If I was a HC, lets say I am Seattles DC for ex. I would want to go to a team that has a HOF QB. Or a team that has a solid foundation intact. Look at the Falcons for example. They need some OL and defense. that is it. That would be a great destination imo. I would understand that Matt ryan and Julio are the faces of that franchise. I personally am not a matt ryan fan at all, but I can see how with the talent around him he would be a great place to start a winning franchise.


Look at the options available:

Raiders
Jets
Falcons
Browns?
Skins
Broncos?

How could we not be at the absolute top of the list for every HC. We are a playoff team and 4 in a row afc championship team, 1 year removed from the superbowl with a more talented roster. I would choose this everyday over the raiders, skins, browns etc. i wouldnt even think twice, let alone what manning wants.

[silkamilkamonico]

I think if you take Manning out of the picture, it's a very attractive position. I think if you have Manning for a year or so, and then possibly Oz/whomever, it's jsut as attractive.

We have a GM who will do whatever it takes to help the guy win a SuperBowl.

[CoachChaz]

I dont know man. If I was a HC, lets say I am Seattles DC for ex. I would want to go to a team that has a HOF QB. Or a team that has a solid foundation intact. Look at the Falcons for example. They need some OL and defense. that is it. That would be a great destination imo. I would understand that Matt ryan and Julio are the faces of that franchise. I personally am not a matt ryan fan at all, but I can see how with the talent around him he would be a great place to start a winning franchise.


Look at the options available:

Raiders
Jets
Falcons
Browns?
Skins
Broncos?

How could we not be at the absolute top of the list for every HC. We are a playoff team and 4 in a row afc championship team, 1 year removed from the superbowl with a more talented roster. I would choose this everyday over the raiders, skins, browns etc. i wouldnt even think twice, let alone what manning wants.

Assuming Gase doesnt get hired...you left out SF...which would also be pretty attractive if you thought you could coach Kaepernick

[Northman]

I think if you take Manning out of the picture, it's a very attractive position. I think if you have Manning for a year or so, and then possibly Oz/whomever, it's jsut as attractive.

We have a GM who will do whatever it takes to help the guy win a SuperBowl.

Yea, i just see it as a win/win all around.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here is a follow up interview with John, immediately after his press conference today - interesting

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/1on1_with_John_Elway/fc4c26c3-3836-433c-a26e-4760284d6864

[Ravage!!!]

Good God... why would ANYONE want Rex Ryan as a HC?

[BroncoWave]

Dan Quinn
Todd Bowles
John Gruden

I don't even know who else is really out there I would want. Would have loved to of had Rex Ryan. Doesn't seem to be alot of attractive candidates. Who should be the next head coach?

Can we stop it with John Gruden? He just signed a long extension with ESPN and has made it clear that he has no desire to go back into coaching anytime soom. Never. Gonna. Happen.

[Pudge]

Here is a follow up interview with John, immediately after his press conference today - interesting

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/1on1_with_John_Elway/fc4c26c3-3836-433c-a26e-4760284d6864

John says he'd maybe like a coach who has won a championship and knows how to get there. I don't want to read into that too much but I.think that excludes some candidates

[BroncoWave]

Good God... why would ANYONE want Rex Ryan as a HC?

Because he did more with less than any coach in the NFL while he was in NY? Notice how he was the first coach snapped up this offseason? He managed to get 4 playoff wins out of Mark Sanchez. I would kill to have had him here.

[Lancane]

I dont know man. If I was a HC, lets say I am Seattles DC for ex. I would want to go to a team that has a HOF QB. Or a team that has a solid foundation intact. Look at the Falcons for example. They need some OL and defense. that is it. That would be a great destination imo. I would understand that Matt ryan and Julio are the faces of that franchise. I personally am not a matt ryan fan at all, but I can see how with the talent around him he would be a great place to start a winning franchise.


Look at the options available:

Raiders
Jets
Falcons
Browns?
Skins
Broncos?

How could we not be at the absolute top of the list for every HC. We are a playoff team and 4 in a row afc championship team, 1 year removed from the superbowl with a more talented roster. I would choose this everyday over the raiders, skins, browns etc. i wouldnt even think twice, let alone what manning wants.


Because as a coach you do not want to be tied to the hip of a player that you have little effect on but is so much a part of the atmosphere that your way could spell your own doom within an organization or worse that their decline in play is in a manner is then called into question as being upon you marring your career. That is why most coaches are tied at the hip to quarterbacks they draft. It's different for young guys like Carr with only a year or two in the league or those with half a career left like Ryan. Manning is literally at the end of his career and will dictate much of the offensive implementation that occurs with the staff, which can hinder a new Coordinator too, not just the Head Coach. Even Shanahan knew he had four or five years with Elway before he called it quits, not a single damn season. We are literally talking about a quarterback that has too much say for the little bit of time he'll remain a Bronco. 'Better to lose with the players you have coached then to lose with those you had no hand in Coaching, then at least the blame will lie where it should!'

I believe Denver would have been the top choice for most looking for a job, had there not been this mushy adulation presser which the General Manager basically dramatized himself to have a quarterback on his last leg return despite what he was saying and also proclaiming that he would consult on the next head coach. Why? Manning is one and done at this point, the chances of a whole new staff returning to the Super Bowl in their first season is laughable only one or two have ever done as much and afterwards those same coaches have looked like utter failures or mediocre at best. It usually takes at least two seasons to set a franchise completely with a new staff. Fox was 8-8 his first year which usually would have done little regarding entering the postseason and right now we can literally argue that Manning is the reason of his success. Your asking another to be measured much the same, how is that attractive?

[Ravage!!!]

Because he did more with less than any coach in the NFL while he was in NY? Notice how he was the first coach snapped up this offseason? He managed to get 4 playoff wins out of Mark Sanchez. I would kill to have had him here.

That's just aweful.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

John says he'd maybe like a coach who has won a championship and knows how to get there. I don't want to read into that too much but I.think that excludes some candidates

What I thought was interesting was when John stated what Fox said in regards to the coaching opportunities out there for him. This was close to the beginning of this video.

[silkamilkamonico]

Would love to have gotten Ryan. His players would take a bullet for him, that says enough for me about how his players feel about him. Dude is salty tough as hell. He was also a great coach for the first couple years when the organization didn't interfere with his day to day personnel. I think it's quite evident with what was happening with their front office, that the organization failed Ryan, and not the other way around. The guy was dealing with players he didn't want any part of and were forced onto him.

[Slick]

Maybe I'm missing something then. Are we considering the option of cutting Manning and tanking a season so we can get a better draft pick and select ANOTHER QB so we can throw him to the fire instead of using the one we already drafted and have been grooming for 3 years?

Not cutting Manning, but not begging him to come back. I hope he doesn't if I haven't been clear on that already. If Oz sucks, then yes, you draft another QB. What else would John do?



And your solution is what at this point? As of today, what is your solution going forward?

Move on from Manning and deal with the lumps along the way. It's not like the team is devoid of talent. A game manager could very well win the AFC West with the roster Elway's put together. You continue to look for your franchise QB in the meantime like the rest of the NFL teams that don't have an elite QB.


Uh, we are only 2 years removed from a SB appearance homie. While Manning isnt a young stud and has his own limitiations he is still very capable of getting a ring. Elway did it up until he was 37 and Brady is still competing at 37. The only thing that is still a problem to me is quality depth, creative coaching, and mental fortitude. But all of those can be corrected as we have a lot of talent already in place.

Now, i have no problem moving forward but if the injury is what prevented Manning from really being Manning than i can understand that and would be fine with giving him another shot so as long as he is healthy and not forcing it like the last part of the year. But, again those are coaching issues that can be corrected.

Boy you've sure changed your tune. 8 weeks ago you were done with Manning and ready to move on, and that was well before Manning had the thigh injury against the Chargers. I personally don't see any scenario that involves Manning hoisting a trophy.



Don't ever question the plethora of highly successful armchair GM's on this board. They are infallible.


Don't be a dick Timmy. If posters can't post their opinions on what the team should do then we might as well close this place down.

[Ravage!!!]

What I thought was interesting was when John stated what Fox said in regards to the coaching opportunities out there for him. This was close to the beginning of this video.

Yeah. We don't know how that conversation went. It could have been something as simple as "John, if you are wavering on me, then let me just bow out now as there are a lot of opportunities out there." We just don't really know.

[Ravage!!!]

John says he'd maybe like a coach who has won a championship and knows how to get there. I don't want to read into that too much but I.think that excludes some candidates

Shanahan is coming back!





boy would that be another "split-the-boards" moment. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

That's just aweful.

Seriously. Look at the offensive "talent" he was given to work with while he was there. He performed absolute miracles to have the success there that he did. It's not a coincidence that several teams wanted his services and that he was grabbed up almost immediately after being let go.

Let me repeat myself: FOUR playoff wins with Mark Sanchez. FOUR. That's more than Fox got out of Peyton Manning.

[Bronco9798]

Here is a follow up interview with John, immediately after his press conference today - interesting

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/1on1_with_John_Elway/fc4c26c3-3836-433c-a26e-4760284d6864

Elway seems to be all in on OZ if Manning goes. Interesting....Say's we'll see if he's ready.

[Ravage!!!]

Seriously. Look at the offensive "talent" he was given to work with while he was there. He performed absolute miracles to have the success there that he did. It's not a coincidence that several teams wanted his services and that he was grabbed up almost immediately after being let go.

Let me repeat myself: FOUR playoff wins with Mark Sanchez. FOUR. That's more than Fox got out of Peyton Manning.

I'm reading your words, he had a great defense. Rex Ryan sucks as a HC, though. That's all I see, a BAD HC...period. Of alllllll the coaches available, he's the one I absolutely would NOT have wanted in Denver. Great DC, though.

[Pudge]

Shanahan is coming back!

Not quite what I meant but take it how you'd like lol

[silkamilkamonico]

Seriously. Look at the offensive "talent" he was given to work with while he was there. He performed absolute miracles to have the success there that he did. It's not a coincidence that several teams wanted his services and that he was grabbed up almost immediately after being let go.

Let me repeat myself: FOUR playoff wins with Mark Sanchez. FOUR. That's more than Fox got out of Peyton Manning.

I agree. After Sanchez, they brought in Tebow, Geno SMith, and Vick - all players that Ryan did not want to have any part of and just had to try and make it work.

[BroncoWave]

I'm reading your words, he had a great defense. Rex Ryan sucks as a HC, though. That's all I see, a BAD HC...period. Of alllllll the coaches available, he's the one I absolutely would NOT have wanted in Denver. Great DC, though.

BAD head coaches don't tend to get snached up immediately and have several teams inquiring about his services right after getting let go. It's pretty rare in general for a guy to jump right to another head coaching gig the season after getting fired.

Tell me the coach who would have had success with the HORRIBLE talent the NY front office put on the field. There isn't one.

[silkamilkamonico]

BAD head coaches don't tend to get snached up immediately and have several teams inquiring about his services right after getting let go. It's pretty rare in general for a guy to jump right to another head coaching gig the season after getting fired.

Tell me the coach who would have had success with the HORRIBLE talent the NY front office put on the field. There isn't one.


Bad coaches don't win in the playoff 4 times. One of our beloved SUperBowl winning coaches in Shanahan has only managed 1 playoff win in 14 seasons with QB's that were better than Sanchez and the garbage he had in New York. Winning in the playoffs is tough for any coach.

[Ravage!!!]

BAD head coaches don't tend to get snached up immediately and have several teams inquiring about his services right after getting let go. It's pretty rare in general for a guy to jump right to another head coaching gig the season after getting fired.

Tell me the coach who would have had success with the HORRIBLE talent the NY front office put on the field. There isn't one.

They don't? :lol: Ooooo kay. BTW, quit making it sound like Ryan didn't have say in who they drafted.


Hey... I got it. YOu and silky both wanted Ryan. Good for you both. I'm not one that shares that glowing opinion of him that you two do. I think he sucks taint fuzz and glad he's not here.

Prediction: Buffalo already had a stud defense, and Ryan continues to make it a stud defense. But completely whiffs on making the offense worth a shit.

[BroncoWave]

They don't? :lol: Ooooo kay. BTW, quit making it sound like Ryan didn't have say in who they drafted.


Hey... I got it. YOu and silky both wanted Ryan. Good for you both. I'm not one that shares that glowing opinion of him that you two do. I think he sucks taint fuzz and glad he's not here.

Prediction: Buffalo already had a stud defense, and Ryan continues to make it a stud defense. But completely whiffs on making the offense worth a shit.

Ryan had no control over whom them brought in. It was pretty well reported that he was against bringing in Tebow and Geno.

[Ravage!!!]

K.. so Rex wins 4 playoff games in his first two seasons with a stud NY Jet defense, and then goes 4 season in a row without going over 8 wins, and 2 of the four seasons are losing seasons!

Since being in NY, he's 46-50 as a HC.. lets go for those losing records! Awesome Sauce!

[Ravage!!!]

Ryan had no control over whom them brought in. It was pretty well reported that he was against bringing in Tebow and Geno.

Its very well reported that he is very much in charge of the draft. Its why they need offensive talent, and they keep drafting defensive players.

[wayninja]

Whatever is right. I think he left a lot of ? marks on the table. Of course he said all the right things in relation to Manning, but his body language and actual words said otherwise.

"We'd like him back, BUT..."

This quote is taken very much out of context. He was talking about giving manning space right after the loss and telling Manning not to think about the future now. So basically "We want you back, but go take time off and clear your head head and don't think about the future right now".

[Krugan]

Because as a coach you do not want to be tied to the hip of a player that you have little effect on but is so much a part of the atmosphere that your way could spell your own doom within an organization or worse that their decline in play is in a manner is then called into question as being upon you marring your career. That is why most coaches are tied at the hip to quarterbacks they draft. It's different for young guys like Carr with only a year or two in the league or those with half a career left like Ryan. Manning is literally at the end of his career and will dictate much of the offensive implementation that occurs with the staff, which can hinder a new Coordinator too, not just the Head Coach. Even Shanahan knew he had four or five years with Elway before he called it quits, not a single damn season. We are literally talking about a quarterback that has too much say for the little bit of time he'll remain a Bronco. 'Better to lose with the players you have coached then to lose with those you had no hand in Coaching, then at least the blame will lie where it should!'

I believe Denver would have been the top choice for most looking for a job, had there not been this mushy adulation presser which the General Manager basically dramatized himself to have a quarterback on his last leg return despite what he was saying and also proclaiming that he would consult on the next head coach. Why? Manning is one and done at this point, the chances of a whole new staff returning to the Super Bowl in their first season is laughable only one or two have ever done as much and afterwards those same coaches have looked like utter failures or mediocre at best. It usually takes at least two seasons to set a franchise completely with a new staff. Fox was 8-8 his first year which usually would have done little regarding entering the postseason and right now we can literally argue that Manning is the reason of his success. Your asking another to be measured much the same, how is that attractive?

I see your points I do, but im not so sure there arent alot of coaches out there saying "hey, this team has been competitive for 3 straight years and ive got a chance to notch a solid team that doesnt need that much tweeking right away'.

But im just a guy sitting at work dreaming I would ahve a chance to do something like that.

Im not looking at a failing manning and thinking there are no other options, but am thinking about a multi-million dollar gig with an all time great as my QB, and a group that wants to win and has done so the last few years....

[BroncoWave]

Its very well reported that he is very much in charge of the draft. Its why they need offensive talent, and they keep drafting defensive players.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/03/palladino-hiding-geno-smith-was-rex-ryans-act-of-defiance/

[Northman]

Boy you've sure changed your tune. 8 weeks ago you were done with Manning and ready to move on, and that was well before Manning had the thigh injury against the Chargers. I personally don't see any scenario that involves Manning hoisting a trophy.


I dont remember being overly critical of him before the Bengals game but i really did not realize how bad his injury was. Throw in the fact that the coaches let the team down and the fans down its hard for me to say with a straight face that other factors havent played into the woes of the second half of the season. Like i said, if Denver decides to move forward without Manning or if he just up and retires i can live with it. Ive already prepared myself for the rebuild but if Manning is healthy and can still play, have coaches who can make better decisions both on and off the field than i have no problem seeing if we can make another go at it. Manning's mobility and at times terrible duck throws still concern me but if we can find a way to get him better protection up front it may help out.

The thing is i really dont see the rush to dump him now or a year from now. There are no QB's in this draft that i think will be any better than what we have on our own roster. Mariota? Maybe but im not completely sold on him. Winston? Oh hell no. And beyond that the rest are bottom feeders. If Peyton can go one more and stay healthy and we can surround him with more talent and better coaching why not try one more time? Cant hurt.

[Ravage!!!]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/03/palladino-hiding-geno-smith-was-rex-ryans-act-of-defiance/

Uhmmm..what's that prove, that he didn't want Smith?? Ok. Let me give you excuses for his lack of winning and having a losing record as a HC.... 'cuase he sucks.

[Hawgdriver]

I see your points I do, but im not so sure there arent alot of coaches out there saying "hey, this team has been competitive for 3 straight years and ive got a chance to notch a solid team that doesnt need that much tweeking right away'.

But im just a guy sitting at work dreaming I would ahve a chance to do something like that.

Im not looking at a failing manning and thinking there are no other options, but am thinking about a multi-million dollar gig with an all time great as my QB, and a group that wants to win and has done so the last few years....

Some coaches won't like Elway's notions of what it takes to get it done at the next level, if that means they have to do it Elway's way. Those are the coaches at the top of my wish list. I don't want a coach to babysit a team and collect a fat check.

[BroncoWave]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1274077/tim-tebow-ripped-by-jets-coach-rex-ryan-two-years-after-leaving-team/

[Joel]

Elway wants Peyton back and thinks he's part of our plan moving forward. So there you have it. Peyton's not gonna walk away from that money. Peyton will be our QB in 2015-2016.
Manning's an All Pro NFL QB with another starting NFL QB as his father AND brother: He's not playing for money, and probably never was. He's playing for the same reason Elway played in '98, when he became the oldest starting QB to win a SB. That parallel with his GM is the good news; the bad news is even after the repeat, MANNING will break Elways SB longevity record if he ever wins again. But they'll both need to wait for the dust to settle on this season before beginning to assemble the next one, so right now all our speculation is just that, more than ever.

[Ravage!!!]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1274077/tim-tebow-ripped-by-jets-coach-rex-ryan-two-years-after-leaving-team/

no body wanted Tebow.... well, except Joel for the Broncos.

[BroncoWave]

no body wanted Tebow.... well, except Joel for the Broncos.

That's my point though. It was pretty clear that the Jets were springing several players on Ryan that he didn't want. Can you really blame anyone struggling to win with an organization incompetent enough to trade for Tim Tebow as their QB after seeing him play in the NFL?

[mouthofsouth]

Doesn't need the money. He can sell pizzas and not get injured (joke.)

[Northman]

I think Tebow is good as a analyst. Not really sure Ryan was ripping him as he basically said what everyone already knew.

[Slick]

I dont remember being overly critical of him before the Bengals game but i really did not realize how bad his injury was. Throw in the fact that the coaches let the team down and the fans down its hard for me to say with a straight face that other factors havent played into the woes of the second half of the season. Like i said, if Denver decides to move forward without Manning or if he just up and retires i can live with it. Ive already prepared myself for the rebuild but if Manning is healthy and can still play, have coaches who can make better decisions both on and off the field than i have no problem seeing if we can make another go at it. Manning's mobility and at times terrible duck throws still concern me but if we can find a way to get him better protection up front it may help out.

The thing is i really dont see the rush to dump him now or a year from now. There are no QB's in this draft that i think will be any better than what we have on our own roster. Mariota? Maybe but im not completely sold on him. Winston? Oh hell no. And beyond that the rest are bottom feeders. If Peyton can go one more and stay healthy and we can surround him with more talent and better coaching why not try one more time? Cant hurt.

I think Denver would be stupid to cut Manning, and I don't think John would. If Manning decides to play, John has no choice but to go with it. All of my hypotheticals involve Peyton announcing his retirement.

I just think if he comes back, Denver still won't win, which is John's goal.

He's just too limited at his age and his lack of mobility even when he's healthy will be too difficult to overcome against playoff teams.


I mean, if we could field a team of 5 pro bowl caliber offensive lineman, 2 pro bowl caliber wide receivers, keep Julius Thomas, and add pieces to solidify the defense, or a D Coordinator who can get the most out of his players, then Denver might stand a chance.

I just don't see all of that happening.

Denver's best shot at winning a title with Manning went out the window when they let the Ravens beat them at home in 2012.

[Krugan]

Some coaches won't like Elway's notions of what it takes to get it done at the next level, if that means they have to do it Elway's way. Those are the coaches at the top of my wish list. I don't want a coach to babysit a team and collect a fat check.

And all coaches have to deal with players they may not want, but are tied to due to contracts and desire of management to retain.

I think there is way to much emphasis being placed on his desire to include his 'team leader' in the process. It really is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things, considering. there is no set yes or no at this point.

Either manning we will be back or he wont. If a coach doesnt want to lead a Manning lead team, he wont be here either way.

[Slick]

Also, Denver doesn't have to rebuild. They've got a very talented roster. They'll just need to find a QB if Manning retires if Oz isn't the guy.

[Ravage!!!]

That's my point though. It was pretty clear that the Jets were springing several players on Ryan that he didn't want. Can you really blame anyone struggling to win with an organization incompetent enough to trade for Tim Tebow as their QB after seeing him play in the NFL?

Can I blame Rex Ryan for being a bad HC? Yes, yes I can. You can show me two articles and believe what you want, but I've said time and time again, in the draft.

year .. 1st round pick

2010 DB
2011 DT
2012 DE
2013 DB
2014 FS

And you want to wonder why Rex Ryan didn't have any offensive talent? Want to know why his offense was nearly always in bottom 3rd? Want to know why he had a LOSING record as a HC?

Seriously... I get it. You like Rex as a HC. I'm glad for you. But you aren't going to change my mind because of articles about Smith and Tebow. Rex was WAY beyond a Tebow problem.

[Northman]

Also, Denver doesn't have to rebuild. They've got a very talented roster. They'll just need to find a QB if Manning retires if Oz isn't the guy.

Agreed, i just still kind of see it as a rebuild but most of the young pieces are already there.

[weazel]

It wont be because i simply dont know how he will turn out. Just havent seen enough to make a determination. I just know all the Miss Cleos on here have already put it in writing that he sucks so i know if the reigns were turned over today how much whining this board would have to endure.

North is correct, we haven't seen him play at all except for a couple minutes of mop up time here and there. He's a question mark simply because nobody has seen him do anything good or bad. Hard to say a guy is good or bad when all he's doing is handing the ball off 3 or 4 times and calling it a day.

[Northman]

As for Ryan, i dont know if he is a great HC but as a DC he is very good and there is some validity to what Wave has been stating in regards to players being forced on him. But, Geno Smith was definitely his pick so some of that is also on him as well.

[Northman]

North is correct, we haven't seen him play at all except for a couple minutes of mop up time here and there. He's a question mark simply because nobody has seen him do anything good or bad. Hard to say a guy is good or bad when all he's doing is handing the ball off 3 or 4 times and calling it a day.

******* damn right im correct. lmao

[BroncoWave]

Can I blame Rex Ryan for being a bad HC? Yes, yes I can. You can show me two articles and believe what you want, but I've said time and time again, in the draft.

year .. 1st round pick

2010 DB
2011 DT
2012 DE
2013 DB
2014 FS

And you want to wonder why Rex Ryan didn't have any offensive talent? Want to know why his offense was nearly always in bottom 3rd? Want to know why he had a LOSING record as a HC?

Seriously... I get it. You like Rex as a HC. I'm glad for you. But you aren't going to change my mind because of articles about Smith and Tebow. Rex was WAY beyond a Tebow problem.

Well it's not like I'm just some idiot sitting here on a message board spouting unfounded opinions (well, I probably am, but that's neither here nor there :D ), my thoughts seem to be backed up by how popular of a candidate he was this offeason and how little time he spent on the open market. If a head coach with a losing record was so sought after right after being fired, then it's pretty clear that there were other things at play that led to that record. Either that, or all the teams going after him just didn't know what they were doing.

[Bronco9798]

Also, Denver doesn't have to rebuild. They've got a very talented roster. They'll just need to find a QB if Manning retires if Oz isn't the guy.

Now that's funny!!!! Just find them a Quarterback, he says!!! lol... I like that.

[Ravage!!!]

As for Ryan, i dont know if he is a great HC but as a DC he is very good and there is some validity to what Wave has been stating in regards to players being forced on him. But, Geno Smith was definitely his pick so some of that is also on him as well.

Yeah.. now if we are talking about a wish for a DC to come into Denver... Ryan would have been at the top of my list for that job.

[BroncoWave]

As for Ryan, i dont know if he is a great HC but as a DC he is very good and there is some validity to what Wave has been stating in regards to players being forced on him. But, Geno Smith was definitely his pick so some of that is also on him as well.

Even if Smith was all Rex's decision (which I don't fully believe), it's not like it was a bad gamble to take the guy in round 2 since many had him pegged as a round 1 prospect.

[Slick]

Now that's funny!!!! Just find them a Quarterback, he says!!! lol... I like that.

Well what else are they going to do? I didn't say it would be easy.

[Ravage!!!]

Well it's not like I'm just some idiot sitting here on a message board spouting unfounded opinions (well, I probably am, but that's neither here nor there :D ), my thoughts seem to be backed up by how popular of a candidate he was this offeason and how little time he spent on the open market. If a head coach with a losing record was so sought after right after being fired, then it's pretty clear that there were other things at play that led to that record. Either that, or all the teams going after him just didn't know what they were doing.

You are right, no one has ever hired (especially the Bills)... bad HCs beause of their defensive mindset. BTW, Wade Phillips, Dick Jauron, and Chan Gailey all wave hello.

[Slick]

Can you guys take the Ryan bullshit somewhere else? Good lord.

[Bronco9798]

Well what else are they going to do? I didn't say it would be easy.

Dude, it just sounded funny. I'm just razzing you. We'll get us a QB and off we go!!!!

[underrated29]

I think Denver would be stupid to cut Manning, and I don't think John would. If Manning decides to play, John has no choice but to go with it. All of my hypotheticals involve Peyton announcing his retirement.

I just think if he comes back, Denver still won't win, which is John's goal.

He's just too limited at his age and his lack of mobility even when he's healthy will be too difficult to overcome against playoff teams.


I mean, if we could field a team of 5 pro bowl caliber offensive lineman, 2 pro bowl caliber wide receivers, keep Julius Thomas, and add pieces to solidify the defense, or a D Coordinator who can get the most out of his players, then Denver might stand a chance.

I just don't see all of that happening.

Denver's best shot at winning a title with Manning went out the window when they let the Ravens beat them at home in 2012.




I dont know. We were in the superbowl the year before with worse talent elsewhere but a better OL. I see us getting the OL solid again, or at least to the year priors level and we can be right back in the big dance. I know very few agree with me that it was the coordinators/coaches that lost us the superbowl game....but when you have the seattle players saying they knew which plays we liked to run and played their defense to stop those plays (gase only knows of 5 anyway) and then they knew the plays manning would audible into when they showed him a look from the play called. I mean, how is it that far fetched to think we cant win with manning?


Here is the scariest part that no one has said yet, if we cannot not win with manning how the hell do we have any hope to win with any other QB not named Brady or Rodgers.

[Northman]

Even if Smith was all Rex's decision (which I don't fully believe), it's not like it was a bad gamble to take the guy in round 2 since many had him pegged as a round 1 prospect.

I dunno, i know im just a guy who watches the game from a couch but a lot of these modern day hybrids just dont cut it for me. If i was Ryan at that time i would not of gambled on Smith and would of gone to a different position. Sometimes these teams and coaches just take a guy for the sake of taking them which is a poor way to draft in my opinion.

[Joel]

Can I blame Rex Ryan for being a bad HC? Yes, yes I can. You can show me two articles and believe what you want, but I've said time and time again, in the draft.

year .. 1st round pick

2010 DB
2011 DT
2012 DE
2013 DB
2014 FS

And you want to wonder why Rex Ryan didn't have any offensive talent? Want to know why his offense was nearly always in bottom 3rd? Want to know why he had a LOSING record as a HC?

Seriously... I get it. You like Rex as a HC. I'm glad for you. But you aren't going to change my mind because of articles about Smith and Tebow. Rex was WAY beyond a Tebow problem.
It's fair to ask if Tebow was way beyond a Ryan problem; I said in 2012 that a physically gifted hard working QB who needs lots of work going to a team with Rex Ryan and Brian Schottenheimer was set up to fail. Then again, Tebow reportedly had his choice of trade offers and picked NY, probably thinking he'd be the obvious (i.e. only) choice when Sanchez bombed just as he was with Orton. Maybe a little too ambitious too soon, Tim; "pride goeth before destruction," and all that....

I get that people want "tough" and "nasty" but the Ryan Familys idea of that was practically inventing Bountygate (and getting away with it,) plus none of them could run a HS offense. No, thanks.

[Northman]

I dont know. We were in the superbowl the year before with worse talent elsewhere but a better OL. I see us getting the OL solid again, or at least to the year priors level and we can be right back in the big dance. I know very few agree with me that it was the coordinators/coaches that lost us the superbowl game....but when you have the seattle players saying they knew which plays we liked to run and played their defense to stop those plays (gase only knows of 5 anyway) and then they knew the plays manning would audible into when they showed him a look from the play called. I mean, how is it that far fetched to think we cant win with manning?


Here is the scariest part that no one has said yet, if we cannot not win with manning how the hell do we have any hope to win with any other QB not named Brady or Rodgers.

There's always that old kicker sitting on the end of the bench! I think his name was Anubis or something. But, he might be facing fines for trying to destroy the legs of McManus and Barth over the weekend with a crowbar. I think TMZ might have video.

[weazel]

Because he did more with less than any coach in the NFL while he was in NY? Notice how he was the first coach snapped up this offseason? He managed to get 4 playoff wins out of Mark Sanchez. I would kill to have had him here.

I'm with ya, I was kinda bummed when he took the Bills job. Thats a pretty good team as well, they need a QB though

[Northman]

I thought Ryan would go to the Falcons, they already have a offense in place. Just need some defensive work which is pretty much his forte.

[Joel]

I dunno, i know im just a guy who watches the game from a couch but a lot of these modern day hybrids just dont cut it for me. If i was Ryan at that time i would not of gambled on Smith and would of gone to a different position. Sometimes these teams and coaches just take a guy for the sake of taking them which is a poor way to draft in my opinion.
Hybrid bad, dual threat good. It's the difference between Cam Newton, RG III and Smith vs. Rodgers, Wilson and Luck. The last three are as elusive and dangerous with their feet as the first three, but with MUCH higher TD/Int ratios. Rodgers hasn't thrown ANY picks at home in TWO YEARS, but will cheerfully dodge tacklers and run 30 yds for a TD when healthy—IF no one's open and he gets flushed.

Smith won't play like that, because he can't, but I'm still convinced the Ryans are offensively beyond a Geno Smith problem, too.

[Northman]

Hybrid bad, dual threat good. It's the difference between Cam Newton, RG III and Smith vs. Rodgers, Wilson and Luck. The last three are as elusive and dangerous with their feet as the first three, but with MUCH higher TD/Int ratios. Rodgers hasn't thrown ANY picks at home in TWO YEARS, but will cheerfully dodge tacklers and run 30 yds for a TD when healthy—IF no one's open and he gets flushed.

Smith won't play like that, because he can't, but I'm still convinced the Ryans are offensively beyond a Geno Smith problem, too.

I dont consider Rodgers/Wilson/Luck to be dual threats. They are QB's to me, much in the mold of Steve Young and John Elway. Just to be clear.

[weazel]

I dont consider Rodgers/Wilson/Luck to be dual threats. They are QB's to me, much in the mold of Steve Young and John Elway. Just to be clear.

Wilson is a little more dual threat type, maybe. Over time I dont think he will be. I watched a good show where they were showing tape of him, he misses a lot of open guys and just bolts instead of checking down. Over time he will start checking down more and run less.

[BroncoJoe]

This quote is taken very much out of context. He was talking about giving manning space right after the loss and telling Manning not to think about the future now. So basically "We want you back, but go take time off and clear your head head and don't think about the future right now".

Yes. Take some time! Figure it out like I did that my body can't take this anymore!

I don't doubt Elway would like Manning back - IF he's 100% healthy. I believe Elway doubts Manning will make it through another season and would like to see what Brock can do. Afterall, Brock is Elway's pick.

I think you all are forgetting Manning turns 39 in a couple months. 39. While I'd cut off my right arm to be 39 again, it is ancient in football terms.

[BroncoWave]

Yes. Take some time! Figure it out like I did that my body can't take this anymore!

I don't doubt Elway would like Manning back - IF he's 100% healthy. I believe Elway doubts Manning will make it through another season and would like to see what Brock can do. Afterall, Brock is Elway's pick.

I think you all are forgetting Manning turns 39 in a couple months. 39. While I'd cut off my right arm to be 39 again, it is ancient in football terms.

Exactly. I have no doubts that Manning can still play at an elite level when he is healthy. The problem is, not many 39 year old QBs are able to make it through 16-20 games healthy. I don't really want to sit through another season where we peak in October and Manning looks great, but then his body breaks down again and we stumble down the stretch to an early playoff loss. I've seen that movie now.

That's why if he does come back, I think he absolutey HAS to agree to relinquish some of his practice snaps to Brock and to sit when he is injured. That's about the only way we will be able to keep him healthy enough to contend for a title IMO.

[Hawgdriver]

I mean, how is it that far fetched to think we cant win with manning?

Speculation:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/peyton-mannings-injury-likely-from-overuse-will-be-hard-to-overcome

I think Manning is done. Manning isn't Manning without a million gazillion reps. That's who he is. Even if he gives it time to heal, it's right around the corner..maybe week 8 the next time around. The reason the team and Manning are so dejected is that the reality is that Manning can't play to his standard, and when the gameplan calls for him to do this, it's a recipe for losing. He'll want to heal and come back, in time, I bet, but I don't think he'll ever go back to the PFM of 2013, the only one he knows.

This is all speculation, but it's what makes the most sense with the little information we know.

[Buff]

Joe, you are projecting your own beliefs onto Elway based on nothing he's ever said. He left zero room for ambiguity today.

[Joel]

I dont consider Rodgers/Wilson/Luck to be dual threats. They are QB's to me, much in the mold of Steve Young and John Elway. Just to be clear.
Dual threat and QB aren't mutually exclusive; they used to be synonymous, and a dual threat must still be a quality passer, by definition: Whether his arm or his legs, a QB who only does ONE thing well is not a DUAL threat. Hence "hybrid bad, dual threat good." As in, not versatile mediocrity, but someone genuinely good at two very different things. Maybe we're saying the same thing: A QB can be just that with lethal running ability; running just can't be a great QBs first—much less ONLY—instinct, and certainly not his sole ability.

[TXBRONC]

Again - did you watch the ******* press conference? That's exactly how it is. Exactly.

I did watch all of it and that's not what I got out of it.

[Timmy!]

Not cutting Manning, but not begging him to come back. I hope he doesn't if I haven't been clear on that already. If Oz sucks, then yes, you draft another QB. What else would John do?




Move on from Manning and deal with the lumps along the way. It's not like the team is devoid of talent. A game manager could very well win the AFC West with the roster Elway's put together. You continue to look for your franchise QB in the meantime like the rest of the NFL teams that don't have an elite QB.



Boy you've sure changed your tune. 8 weeks ago you were done with Manning and ready to move on, and that was well before Manning had the thigh injury against the Chargers. I personally don't see any scenario that involves Manning hoisting a trophy.





Don't be a dick Timmy. If posters can't post their opinions on what the team should do then we might as well close this place down.

Opinions are fine, but thinking we know better than Elway is a little silly. 98% of us couldn't coach a friggin 8th grade team, let alone GM an NFL team. Settle down Beavis.

[Slick]

I dont know. We were in the superbowl the year before with worse talent elsewhere but a better OL. I see us getting the OL solid again, or at least to the year priors level and we can be right back in the big dance. I know very few agree with me that it was the coordinators/coaches that lost us the superbowl game....but when you have the seattle players saying they knew which plays we liked to run and played their defense to stop those plays (gase only knows of 5 anyway) and then they knew the plays manning would audible into when they showed him a look from the play called. I mean, how is it that far fetched to think we cant win with manning?


Here is the scariest part that no one has said yet, if we cannot not win with manning how the hell do we have any hope to win with any other QB not named Brady or Rodgers.

We don't need a Cugel thead scolding us on how hard it is to find an elite QB. It's not like we starting watching football yesterday. We know how hard it is. In the mean time you hope you can win one with a good balanced team or at least fight to the end like you give a shit, something this team wasn't doing under Manning the last two season ending games.

You're much more confident in Manning than I am at this point.

Opinions are fine, but thinking we know better than Elway is a little silly. 98% of us couldn't coach a friggin 8th grade team, let alone GM an NFL team. Settle down Beavis.

No one said they were smarter than Elway. You settle down, Butthead.

[Timmy!]

We don't need a Cugel thead scolding us on how hard it is to find an elite QB. It's not like we starting watching football yesterday. We know how hard it is. In the mean time you hope you can win one with a good balanced team or at least fight to the end like you give a shit, something this team wasn't doing under Manning the last two season ending games.

You're much more confident in Manning than I am at this point.


No one said they were smarter than Elway. You settle down, Butthead.

I think the original mostly comedic intent of my original post might have gone a bit over your head. :insertwhysosrsmemehere:

[Slick]

I think the original mostly comedic intent of my original post might have gone a bit over your head. :insertwhysosrsmemehere:

Emotions were running high today my friend.

[Timmy!]

Emotions were running high today my friend.

Sure looks that way.....gonna be that way for a while I'm sure. I see it going one of two ways. Either Manning returns (if healthy) and we make another run with a loaded team, or Manning retires and we see what we have in Oz, on a loaded team. Either way the coaching change was needed it seems. I trust Elways opinion more than my own, so I'm cool with it either way. Hall of famer on a last ride, or releasing the Montana giraffe from his pen, John will have the Broncos ready to compete either way.

[Shazam!]

I don't like the insinuation that Manning has an opinion in the process, sounds like he's banking too much on Manning which is stupid IMHO.

Meh, im not shocked and i wouldnt be shocked if Elway had some say when Shanahan became HC so many moons ago.

Elway handpicked the Broncos coach. It was merely a formality announcing Shanahan. Bowlen made it clear that was their guy. Look what he did to get to Shanahan way back!

[Slick]

Sure looks that way.....gonna be that way for a while I'm sure. I see it going one of two ways. Either Manning returns (if healthy) and we make another run with a loaded team, or Manning retires and we see what we have in Oz, on a loaded team. Either way the coaching change was needed it seems. I trust Elways opinion more than my own, so I'm cool with it either way. Hall of famer on a last ride, or releasing the Montana giraffe from his pen, John will have the Broncos ready to compete either way.

The fact that Elway is in charge is a relief. You know he's not going to sit back and watch the Broncos go down the shitter.

[Timmy!]

The fact that Elway is in charge is a relief. You know he's not going to sit back and watch the Broncos go down the shitter.

Exactly. John will get the right coaches in, and keep making roster improvements. At this point I'm curious as to who we hire. After that we wait for Peyton's decision, and go from there. Its not like we are blowing the team up, far from it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Not long ago, Nick Griffith, Sports Director on local FOX, said that the players really liked Fox, and last night, there was a going away party for him. He mentioned Peyton, DT, and Bruton attended. There were more, but I did not catch all of the names.

[Slick]

Not long ago, Nick Griffith, Sports Director on local FOX, said that the players really liked Fox, and last night, there was a going away party for him. He mentioned Peyton, DT, and Bruton attended. There were more, but I did not catch all of the names.

Why didn't they play harder for him?

[underrated29]

Why didn't they play harder for him?



Maybe they were sick of seeing the same plays

:behindsofa:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I may be in the minority, but the only player I saw give a half hearted effort was Julius Thomas. I thought they all played hard. We just lost because we had a QB who couldn't throw the ball.....and an elite receiver who couldn't catch a bubble screen.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I just watched it, and I have to say, "wow"

I don't think I've ever seen John look that uncomfortable in a presser...almost awkward.

I got the impression he was a little taken back by all of this. He even said most of it came from Fox's side....Fox is the one who wanted out.

[Slick]

I may be in the minority, but the only player I saw give a half hearted effort was Julius Thomas. I thought they all played hard. We just lost because we had a QB who couldn't throw the ball.....and an elite receiver who couldn't catch a bubble screen.

You and I must have watched different games. The only guys I saw who looked like they had fire in their bellies were Wolfe, B Marshall, Sanders and CJ. Everyone else was playing, but they took on the emotion of their leader who started hanging his head in the second quarter. Oh, and Franklyn got pissed off once.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You and I must have watched different games. The only guys I saw who looked like they had fire in their bellies were Wolfe, B Marshall, Sanders and CJ. Everyone else was playing, but they took on the emotion of their leader who started hanging his head in the second quarter. Oh, and Franklyn got pissed off once.

The secondary played hard. Von Miller had a few great tackles behind the LOS. Knighton played really well. Ware chased Luck out of the pocket several times. Emmanuel Sanders gave good effort, and was visibly pissed that the QB couldn't get him the ball.

(I even saw Vasquez high five somebody :laugh: )


Serioulsy though man, if our D laid down there's no way the Colts would have only scored 24 points, not with all of the 3 and outs and general suckiness of the offense. If our D didn't show up for that game it would have been over by half time. As it was, they kept us in the game until the last four minutes. I think it's completely unfair to say the 11 guys on defense didn't give a good effort.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I just watched it, and I have to say, "wow"

I don't think I've ever seen John look that uncomfortable in a presser...almost awkward.

I got the impression he was a little taken back by all of this. He even said most of it came from Fox's side....Fox is the one who wanted out.

Vic was there, and he said that to him, John was totally mad as to how things ended up the last couple of years.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Vic was there, and he said that to him, John was totally mad as to how things ended up the last couple of years.

Who said what to who?

[silkamilkamonico]

I noticed in Fox's presser yesterday, he had to include the, "most coaches would call this a very successlull season" mantra that he has over the last 3 years. I could never see Elway with that ackjnowledgement, or any high profile coach used to winning. They would be totally pissed about losing, and not trying to somehow take comfort in "most coaches would be happy with the type of season".....argument. I think that;s they kind of attitude that holds Fox back.

IN the NBA, they ask the question during the combine, "Do you love to win, of hate to lose". Jordan and Kobe hated to lose. John Elway hated to lose. Fox loved to win. I do think there's a difference of mentality, and killer instinct between the 2.

[tomjonesrocks]

IN the NBA, they ask the question during the combine, "Do you love to win, of hate to lose". Jordan and Kobe hated to lose. John Elway hated to lose. Fox loved to win. I do think there's a difference of mentality, and killer instinct between the 2.

I hadn't heard that saying. Makes sense.

Makes sense he'd want Fox to be the kind of guy that wants to put his fist through a wall after a loss. He doesn't seem that guy.

Hard though. McD, say what you want about that worthless shit, hated to lose. Gotta have a lot more than that.

[pnbronco]

John was ask about the Glazer thing. He downplayed that, but by it sounding that Fox was exploring his options, do you think John really was addressing the Glazer bombshell before our game, without coming out and actually saying it. As I said before, no one locally had stated anything about Fox being out if we did not beat the Colts.

Not sure if this is talked about later on....but I'm getting really tired. But I think it was on ESPN 105.5 with Nate Kreckman or heck it could of been Scotty & whoever he works with on 104.3 that talked about the possibility of Fox loosing his job if he lost that game. They said something like hard to believe that they were even talking about it, but their guts told them that getting to the playoffs was just not enough for right now.

I know for sure it was Nate that found out about Peyton's leg later that afternoon, but I do remember hearing that Fox could loose his job despite his overall record.

[Simple Jaded]

John Elway started off by thanking John Elway. Classic.

[Lancane]

For those thinking I am wrong about this all causing Denver to lose some attractiveness for Head Coaching candidates, check this out: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/13/profootballtalk-do-broncos-truly-want-peyton-manning-to-return/

Fact of the matter is that John has tied himself at the hips. Does anyone else find it weird that after this presser today we're seeing Bowles hired by the Jets without meeting Denver which is ready to win, that those around Dan Quinn are tweeting he wants the Atlanta job or that the Broncos are yet to line any interviews up outside of meeting Gase after his interview with the 9ers which most believe he won't walk away from without being named the next Head Coach of the 49ers?

[Simple Jaded]

This team has a lot of talent and the chance to succeed at a high level immediately, most importantly one of the best QB's on the planet and an understudy waiting for his chance, there are almost zero drawbacks to the Broncos job opening. If it were me my only concern would be the ownership situation.

If this is cause for concern for HC candidates than the Broncos still have plenty to offer.

[Lancane]

This team has a lot of talent and the chance to succeed at a high level immediately, most importantly one of the best QB's on the planet and an understudy waiting for his chance, there are almost zero drawbacks to the Broncos job opening. If it were me my only concern would be the ownership situation.

If this is cause for concern for HC candidates than the Broncos still have plenty to offer.

But you're saying that as a fan...that makes most of us not qualified to be more open minded about how it looks to those outside the fandom bubble.

As the video mentioned, you have a G.M. that has allowed himself to show impatience, that has emphatically tied any candidate at the hip with Manning and would have both pressures immediately set upon that coach. It does not help that Jay Glazier is going around clarifying the issue on behalf of his friend John Fox while Elway is being tight lipped and has no one doing the same on his behalf about the situation and shouldering much in the way of the blame to those outside the fan base. And as you said, not only are they tied to Manning or have the drawback of his input as Florio pointed out, but that the next Head Coach would be tied to another quarterback thereafter that he did not choose in Osweiler. You say there are zero drawbacks, but if you look at it as this is the situation in New York or say Oakland you would not be as optimistic about it being ideal, what makes it such to us is that we love the organization...we are fans.

Someone said earlier how the other teams are more attractive and compared them as you just did. Well for one the G.M. will be lenient, they have more say so in regards to operations and they get to build the team their way with the G.M. Bowles who is now the HC of the Jets wanted off the market, he chose a team that literally is a media nightmare for coaches in a division that has been continually won by one team in particular and is always rebuilding outside that one damn team. Bowles likely could have literally won big here his first year, so why did he want off the market? Why are Quinn's associates tweeting he wants the Atlanta job? San Francisco and Oakland are trying to tie up Gase and Del Rio faster then a lightning strike and according to Ian Rappaport are more interested in those suitors then in the Broncos?...It's because Elway now has allowed himself to be made into this persona of a General Manager who lacks patience and is tying all candidates with a quarterback that many in the league outside our fan base, even in his old believes is a choke artist during the post-season. At this rate, Denver will be delving into the pool looking at second tier candidates and as far as I know, no coaches have agreed to interview with Denver beyond Gase if San Francisco doesn't have him under contract here soon.

[Simple Jaded]

You're looking at it as someone who thinks those issues are the only ones these coaches willing weigh, it feels as though you're asking me to ignore the positives and concede that this is not an attractive job.

[Lancane]

You're looking at it as someone who thinks those issues are the only ones these coaches willing weigh, it feels as though you're asking me to ignore the positives and concede that this is not an attractive job.

But are the positives enough that they outweigh the negatives to a candidate that is tying his career to what he is walking into? The positives for us do outweigh the negatives because we have a heartfelt connection to the team something most coaches outside Kubiak, Shanahan or Dennison will not have. This is one reason why I believe Denver will be limited in who will want the job and it's lack of attractiveness to say Quinn who will have more say in Atlanta, a pretty solid roster and is only a step or two away from being a continual contender...granted he'd probably win big here sooner, but maybe the chance of one and done or none and done is a little too much for their tastes.

[Simple Jaded]

Btw, you're also asking me to believe that Fox risked his reputation to get away from a choke-artist to take a job tied to far bigger issues at QB, not the least of of those issues is the reputation of a choke artist.

[Simple Jaded]

Also, how is Elway being impatient? From what you've told me it's Fox that ended the relationship.