Searching for a HC

[aberdien]

Who do we want?

I'd like somebody offensive minded.

[weazel]

Who do we want?

I'd like somebody offensive minded.

Kubiak...
OC Shanny...
DC Schottenheimer...

no jokes.

will it happen? of course not, but I can offer my opinion.

[Jsteve01]

Bowles, Quinn, or Pip

[NightTerror218]

Who do we want?

I'd like somebody offensive minded.

Rather go aggressive, no need to be offensive or defensive. But I like some of the defensive minded guys like Quinn.

Just need a good OC.

[TimHippo]

Anybody but that milquetoast follower Adam Gase.

Cowher
Jon Gruden

You need a proven winner who is an improvement over Gase, not a question mark rookie HC.

[aberdien]

Anybody but that milquetoast follower Adam Gase.

Cowher
Jon Gruden

You need a proven winner who is an improvement over Gase, not a question mark rookie HC.

Those would be awful choices IMO.

[Buff]

I think Dan Quinn is as close to the consensus #1 coordinator out there.

I believe Kubiak will get real consideration from Elway - and he would definitely be interested despite claiming to be sticking with the Ravens.

I can't think of too many out-of-the-box hires... But there isn't a coach in America who won't take Elways phone call.

I don't want to get too hung up on whether he's an offensive or defensive guy - HCs are more like CEOs anyway. The coordinators need to be the strong Xs and Os guys.

[Magnificent Seven]

I don't mind to bring Mike Shanahan back.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Well this should be a fun offseason...

[GEM]

How many times can you use the word milquetoast? :laugh:

[TimHippo]

Those would be awful choices IMO.

That's like your opinion.

[CrazyHorse]

Kubiak...
OC Shanny...
DC Schottenheimer...

no jokes.

will it happen? of course not, but I can offer my opinion.

That would be awesome actually.

I think Dan Quinn is as close to the consensus #1 coordinator out there.

I believe Kubiak will get real consideration from Elway - and he would definitely be interested despite claiming to be sticking with the Ravens.

I can't think of too many out-of-the-box hires... But there isn't a coach in America who won't take Elways phone call.

I don't want to get too hung up on whether he's an offensive or defensive guy - HCs are more like CEOs anyway. The coordinators need to be the strong Xs and Os guys.

Dan Quinn has the benefit of Chancellor, Thomas, Sherman etc.


I don't mind to bring Mike Shanahan back.

He can't build a team but he's shown he can get them over the hump.

I would like Kubiak. He never really had a good QB in Houston but was still able to make the playoffs. Manning is the new Elway, CJ the new TD, and Kubiak the new Shanahan. Just like old times.

[Cugel]

I think Dan Quinn is as close to the consensus #1 coordinator out there.

I believe Kubiak will get real consideration from Elway - and he would definitely be interested despite claiming to be sticking with the Ravens.

I can't think of too many out-of-the-box hires... But there isn't a coach in America who won't take Elways phone call.

I don't want to get too hung up on whether he's an offensive or defensive guy - HCs are more like CEOs anyway. The coordinators need to be the strong Xs and Os guys.

Latest report from ESPN radio: the Broncos are interested in interviewing Dan Quinn. That is almost a certainty. Also 49ers have Adam Gase as their #1 choice for head coach. They are flying Gase out to S.F. tonight to meet with him and offer him a contract.

Fox is gone, Del Rio is going to be offered the Raiders head coaching job and he reportedly wants (for some reason) to go back to the Bay, and now Adam Gase is going to sign with the 49ers.

Looking more and more like Peyton Manning has played his last game in Denver. He doesn't want his last season to be with a new head coach, new defensive coach and new offensive coordinator. He said he was unsure based on "coaching situation" - this is what he meant. If the entire coaching staff goes, as it now has, he could just say "I'm hanging it up."

But, I would imagine that Elway will at least have a heart to heart talk with Peyton and try really hard to convince him to return. The other report is that Fox wanted out. He forced Elway to let him go. Elway was reportedly seriously pissed at the report that came out yesterday morning from Fox's favorite reporter that if the Broncos lost, he, Fox would be "available" for other coaching jobs. He's reportedly being considered for the Chicago Bears job. I would be amazed if he doesn't fly out somewhere for an interview tomorrow.

He won't be unemployed long.

[TimHippo]

Assuming Peyton Manning is still here. This is the last hurrah so they need a veteran super bowl coach not some rookie that may or may not pan out.

[aberdien]

That's like your opinion.

Indeed. Cowher needed help from the officials to win his SB. Gruden won 1 with Dungy's team and then proceeded to flail until he lost his job. They're only slightly better than Fox.

[Joel]

Kubiak...
OC Shanny...
DC Schottenheimer...

no jokes.

will it happen? of course not, but I can offer my opinion.
Well, if we're talking impossible personality conflicts that ignore a ton of bad blood and history:

HC: Shanny
OC: Kubiak (Elways understudy, then Shannys)
DC: Phillips (the guy we fired and replaced with Shanny)

Weird thing is Kubiak and Phillips WERE together in Houston and turned the Texans into a powerhouse on offense AND defense that was only one better-than-Schaub QB from a SB.

[tomjonesrocks]

Seems like unless they go Gase, John could look to college...

[TimHippo]

Indeed. Cowher needed help from the officials to win his SB. Gruden won 1 with Dungy's team and then proceeded to flail until he lost his job. They're only slightly better than Fox.

Winning a super bowl is alot better than choking like Fox.

[NightTerror218]

Elway never makes a move without having a plan. Look at the Talib signing, or the Ware signing. He seems to always have a plan. I bet he has a couple coaches in mind already.

[Cugel]

Seems like unless they go Gase, John could look to college...

I would bet almost anything against it. The only report of who the Broncos are interested in was Seattle Defensive Coordinator Dan Quinn. They are looking to the pros, not college. Kubiak and Dan Quinn are the top candidates as of now.

[BroncoWave]

Can we stop it with Kubiak? He is just about as emotionless as Fox. That would not be an upgrade at all. Other than him being a successful coordinator here, what makes people want him to be our head coach? I would not be happy with that hire. No on Shanahan too. Dan Quinn should absolutely be our top target.

[Traveler]

Whomever they hire, I hope they are adept at designing an offense and defense around the players instead of the other way around. Someone adept at making in-game adjustments and motivating players to play with passion all the time. Dan Quinn & Todd Bowles would be my preferences.

[Cugel]

Elway never makes a move without having a plan. Look at the Talib signing, or the Ware signing. He seems to always have a plan. I bet he has a couple coaches in mind already.

You're right, except this time. Fox reportedly FORCED Elway's hand. He tells his buddy reported yesterday morning before the game that if the Broncos lose, he could be gone. Elway was reportedly totally steamed (reported by Vic Lombardi on 104.3 The Fan just 15 minutes ago).

[Rick]

My Sunday's are generally free, I am pretty much available.

[chazoe60]

This just reeks of a situation that would be perfect for Kubiak. I like that offense with our roster too. I love play action bootleg type stuff with a young QB like Brock. I have some faith that Brock can run Kubiaks offense and I have absolute faith that CJ Anderson would be a superstar in that offense. The kicker would be finding a good DC.

[vettesplus]

let me throw out a crazy name, 'Dave logan":behindsofa:... hellava high school coach....

[Shazam!]

I do not want this team to go the route of the hot coordinator again.

[Dzone]

The SI article from last week mentioned that Elway has been working out in the gym with Klein Kubiak. Not that it is significant, but sounds like Elway is close to the whole Kubiak family, two who played at CSU

[BroncoWave]

Kubiak was one of the most emotionless coaches in the NFL at Houston. Isn't that the main reason most people wanted Fox gone?

[vettesplus]

Kubiak was one of the most emotionless coaches in the NFL at Houston. Isn't that the main reason most people wanted Fox gone?

the only time he got fired up, he had a heart attack on the field:lol:

[G_Money]

My problem with amazing DCs as head coaches is that they usually don't run the defense still. So you're looking for TWO badass coordinators. If you have a head coach who wants to call the offensive plays, you only need one great coordinator.

Sometimes you get the HC who can motivate and coordinators who can coach (Pete in Seattle comes to mind) but when I think of the truly great DCs who got head coaching jobs, I can't think of many who succeeded.

TL : DR version: Quinn makes me nervous, even though I think the world of him as a coordinator.

Our guy will have a leg up because there is a TON of talent here compared to a normal opening. But because our vital weakness is at QB if Manning retires, I'm not thrilled about half-assing the offensive side of the ball.

So I hope we either get a master motivator who can hire a genius for each side of the ball, or I'd like an offensive guru to take the reins and get us our next great QB.

Fascinated to hear what Elway's list might be. He pulled the trigger on a Richter 8 rebuild, so let's see the plan.

NO BELICHICK DISCIPLES!

[G_Money]

Also, if it's Gase, this may be me:

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/suicide.gif

Let's not go there, K? TIA.

[BroncoWave]

Also, if it's Gase, this may be me:

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/suicide.gif

Let's not go there, K? TIA.

Mike Klis reported Gase is likely not a candidate.

[TimHippo]

My problem with amazing DCs as head coaches is that they usually don't run the defense still. So you're looking for TWO badass coordinators. If you have a head coach who wants to call the offensive plays, you only need one great coordinator.

Sometimes you get the HC who can motivate and coordinators who can coach (Pete in Seattle comes to mind) but when I think of the truly great DCs who got head coaching jobs, I can't think of many who succeeded.

TL : DR version: Quinn makes me nervous, even though I think the world of him as a coordinator.

Our guy will have a leg up because there is a TON of talent here compared to a normal opening. But because our vital weakness is at QB if Manning retires, I'm not thrilled about half-assing the offensive side of the ball.

So I hope we either get a master motivator who can hire a genius for each side of the ball, or I'd like an offensive guru to take the reins and get us our next great QB.

Fascinated to hear what Elway's list might be. He pulled the trigger on a Richter 8 rebuild, so let's see the plan.

NO BELICHICK DISCIPLES!

Bill Belicheck. Buddy Ryan. Pete Carroll. Not sure what your definition of success is but it's undeniable that Belicheat has been successful.

[tomjonesrocks]

Paige saying Gase is a candidate for our HC position.

Klis says he's not.

[MileHighCrew]

Tony Dungy and Manning take one more crack at it

[TimHippo]

Mike Klis reported Gase is likely not a candidate.

Yes!

[tomjonesrocks]

Yes!

PFT and Paige reporting the opposite.

Seems 49ers close the deal though.

[G_Money]

Bill Belicheck. Buddy Ryan. Pete Carroll. Not sure what your definition of success is but it's undeniable that Belicheat has been successful.

Buddy Ryan was not my idea of a successful head Coach. Carroll doesn't call that D but figured out in college how to BE a great head coach. He failed several previous times before he hired guys better than he is to run the defense.

Belichick is a guy who has his imprint in everything, a defensive juggernaut of a coach. Bill Parcells was a defensive coach as well, but it wasn't his brilliant DC career that made it work for him, cuz he didn't have a long one before getting the head job. He was a motivator/needler too (and incidentally was able to pass that off to Belechick too).

I'm a defensive guy. It's the side of the ball I like best. But if we get the best DC in the league to take over the team, then I hope he either calls the defense personally and is involved in every aspect of that, or has a protege who is Him 2.0. Getting a student who is as good as the master is hard, that's all.

~G

[GEM]

Tony Dungy and Manning take one more crack at it

NO! Just no. I don't want that soft alien looking dude near my team!

[MileHighCrew]

NO! Just no. I don't want that soft alien looking dude near my team!

bahahahahaha....... not that I think it will, but if they hire Dungy, that goes in my sig block for his entire tenure in Denver!!!!!

[TimHippo]

Buddy Ryan was not my idea of a successful head Coach. Carroll doesn't call that D but figured out in college how to BE a great head coach. He failed several previous times before he hired guys better than he is to run the defense.

Belichick is a guy who has his imprint in everything, a defensive juggernaut of a coach. Bill Parcells was a defensive coach as well, but it wasn't his brilliant DC career that made it work for him, cuz he didn't have a long one before getting the head job. He was a motivator/needler too (and incidentally was able to pass that off to Belechick too).

I'm a defensive guy. It's the side of the ball I like best. But if we get the best DC in the league to take over the team, then I hope he either calls the defense personally and is involved in every aspect of that, or has a protege who is Him 2.0. Getting a student who is as good as the master is hard, that's all.

~G

Well when Buddy was head coach at the Eagles, his defenses were #1 in the league. His protege Jeff Fisher who was a player with Buddy on the Bears was the rookie D.C. So it has been done.

[G_Money]

Fisher's another guy... but he still tends to have problems with the offense. Great motivator, good task master, builds talent on his teams, coaches up the talent he has... but can't get the offense squared away except for a couple years with McNair.

I'm not against Quinn, don't get me wrong. I love that dude. But I wish we had a QB in place if we were going defense. Pete would be less of a genius if he hadn't tripped over Russell Wilson. Here's hoping we trip over somebody. I expect us to get Quinn in for an interview... but it's gonna be a few more weeks. A lot of other coaches are likely to wander off while we wait.

As long as two of those coaches are Del Rio and Gase, I'm okay with it. If we want Quinn I'll be shocked if he gets out of here without a press conference announcing his hiring.

[MileHighCrew]

Broncos will consider Adam Gase for head-coaching job
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/12/broncos-will-consider-gase-for-head-coaching-job/

[G_Money]

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/suicide.gif

[TimHippo]

Fisher's another guy... but he still tends to have problems with the offense. Great motivator, good task master, builds talent on his teams, coaches up the talent he has... but can't get the offense squared away except for a couple years with McNair.

I'm not against Quinn, don't get me wrong. I love that dude. But I wish we had a QB in place if we were going defense. Pete would be less of a genius if he hadn't tripped over Russell Wilson. Here's hoping we trip over somebody. I expect us to get Quinn in for an interview... but it's gonna be a few more weeks. A lot of other coaches are likely to wander off while we wait.

As long as two of those coaches are Del Rio and Gase, I'm okay with it. If we want Quinn I'll be shocked if he gets out of here without a press conference announcing his hiring.

Listen to yourself though. Fisher - McNair. Carrol - Wilson. Belicheat - Brady.

It doens't matter who you are OC or DC you need a stud qb to have success. So using the well those DCs stumbled onto a good QB isn't a legitimate excuse. In fact n Carroll's case he didnt' really stumble onto Wilson, they already had a guy in Flynn that they signed to a huge contract and he went out of his way to make a gutsy call and start the rookie Wilson over him.

*Bill Cowher also was a DC before becoming HC.

[TimHippo]

Broncos will consider Adam Gase for head-coaching job
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/12/broncos-will-consider-gase-for-head-coaching-job/

Yuck. Not the milquetoast.

[TXBRONC]

Broncos will consider Adam Gase for head-coaching job
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/12/broncos-will-consider-gase-for-head-coaching-job/

Right now it's seems like lip service. Gase has/had a second interview with the 49ers today. There is very good chance the 49ers are going to hire him.

[BroncoWave]

Yuck. Not the milquetoast.

We get it dude, you know what the word milquetoast means.

[Joel]

We get it dude, you know what the word milquetoast means.
Duh: He's the cockroach from Outland; where have you been? :tongue:

[tomjonesrocks]

Might have been posted but now Klis is saying Gase NOT interviewing tonight with SF. So I guess prowling Twitter tonight is not needed.

Wonder if either Gase or Manning are good with JFE right now.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Hire Terrell Austin.

[Dzone]

We need someone l,ike this guy
6392

[Joel]

We need someone l,ike this guy
6392
He wears those so Dick Sherman won't chew off his arms, right? :tongue:

[MileHighCrew]

We need someone l,ike this guy
6392

He might have a hard time throwing a challenge flag....

[Hawgdriver]

Pete would be less of a genius if he hadn't tripped over Russell Wilson. Here's hoping we trip over somebody.

But that's the thing...he did trip over Russell Wilson, hired Wilson a therapist, and turned him into the face of the franchise. It's genius, and you gotta hand it to him. That's exactly what I want in the next Broncos head coach. A bona fide coaching genius, whether it's X's and O's, or in an organizational sense. I haven't heard a name yet I like.

[Hawgdriver]

This is not an I <3 Carroll statement, just to contrast from what the Broncos had in terms of coaching vision. That last game, the flatness and apathy and lack of spark, run so at odds with this kind of philosophy:


Carroll realizes he's a bit of an "odd man out" when it comes to NFL coaches. It's not that he thinks outside of the box; it's more like he has no idea where the box is, what it looks like or why anyone would care what people in the box say.

When asked to describe his philosophy, Carroll replied: "It's about being the very best you can be. Nothing else matters as long as you're working and striving to be your best. Always compete. It's truly that simple. Find the way to do your best. Compete in everything you do."

I know Fox was a competitive dude and a leader of men. It just didn't translate as well as it should have for some reason. Manning, Elway, and a funky chemistry among the whole group.

[ShaneFalco]

i would like to see adam as head coach

[Poet]

Kubiak is an awful head coach. Horrible with challenges, horrible with game management. His teams for years fell short again and again. How bad was he as a coach? Well, he was 'good' enough to be able to beat out Marvin Lewis in the playoffs. Boom, he's Marvin Lewis goodish.

Y'all don't want that.

[7DnBrnc53]

Kubiak is an awful head coach. Horrible with challenges, horrible with game management. His teams for years fell short again and again. How bad was he as a coach? Well, he was 'good' enough to be able to beat out Marvin Lewis in the playoffs. Boom, he's Marvin Lewis goodish.

Y'all don't want that.

Well, he's staying in Baltimore. He doesn't want to be HC right now. I think that Dan Quinn will be the man, anyway.

[Ziggy]

Kubiak made the decision to stay in Baltimore before the Denver job opened up. I wouldn't count him out just yet. As far as failing in his first stint as a head coach.......so did Shanahan, Carroll, Belichick, and Coughlin before they all won super bowls in their second go round.

[Poet]

Kubiak made the decision to stay in Baltimore before the Denver job opened up. I wouldn't count him out just yet. As far as failing in his first stint as a head coach.......so did Shanahan, Carroll, Belichick, and Coughlin before they all won super bowls in their second go round.

It's not a fair comparison. Shanahan's situation is not analogous. Coughlin was very successful in Jax and took a young and new team -literally- to a 14-2 record as well as one or two more playoff stints. Belichek took Cleveland to the playoffs.

Kubiak was not as good as any of those guys sans Carroll.

[dogfish]

you can go a couple of different ways with it and make it work, but ideally i like bringing in a young, offensive-minded guy. . . your base scheme stays the same through coordinator changes when it comes from the HC-- the club's overall mentality also comes from the HC, and i'm not a big fan of the play it tight and rely on your defense attitude that too many DCs have. . . i'd rather have an aggressive offensive mind as the HC, with a salty veteran DC. . . pep hamilton from indy would probably be my first choice. . .

[CrazyHorse]

It's not a fair comparison. Shanahan's situation is not analogous. Coughlin was very successful in Jax and took a young and new team -literally- to a 14-2 record as well as one or two more playoff stints. Belichek took Cleveland to the playoffs.

Kubiak was not as good as any of those guys sans Carroll.

Kubiak didn't take the Texans to the playoffs? Also he had Schaub who played pretty well but was his play elevated by coaching ala Jake Plummer?

[Simple Jaded]

What about Troy Calhoun?

[Poet]

Kubiak didn't take the Texans to the playoffs? Also he had Schaub who played pretty well but was his play elevated by coaching ala Jake Plummer?

They had several collapses where he coached them out of it. They made the playoffs the first time under Kubiak. They should have made it several times before hand.

Sure, Schaub was probably helped by Kubiak. But then again, Schaub for quite some time was a good player. That relationship was as symbiotic as it gets.

[Hawgdriver]

pep hamilton from indy would probably be my first choice. . .

The Broncos need some pep for sure.

[Lancane]

Kubiak is not out of the picture, no matter what was said. Other possibilities are Rick Dennison who interviewed for the position last time and is now the Quarterbacks Coach in Baltimore, Mike Nolan the former Defensive Coordinator in Atlanta who has close ties to the Broncos Organization could be a possible candidate. Not sure Mike Shanahan is even an option, can John and Mike smooth over the issues that came between them? Kyle Shanahan also could also be in the mix, but both are far from likely compared to other names - though still interesting. I am sure that John Harbaugh is kicking himself for going to Michigan so quickly, no doubt that he'd have been atop the list for the Broncos to replace Fox, especially since him and Elway have a good rapport.

In all honesty the issue at this stage regarding those elsewhere is the level of commitment, Dan Quinn is a solid option but does he bring members of Seattle's offensive staff who have floundered at times and would be less then impressive without the defense to save them? Another is that several candidates are older then Fox is which could be an issue in terms of long-term ability as Elway wants.

[sneakers]

Don Shula!

[CrazyHorse]

Don Shula!

Undefeated season here we come!!!!!!

[ShaneFalco]

Dick Vermiel!!!

[Dzone]

Quinn looks like a badass and has a strong presence, unlike Fox

[Dzone]

So is rick Dennison responsible for turning Flacco into the best quarterback in all football?

[Lancane]

So is rick Dennison responsible for turning Flacco into the best quarterback in all football?

Kubiak worked with him as well, you could give Dennison half the credit though, the other half to Kubiak.

As far as Quinn goes, one thing about this whole Fox situation is that I believe Elway will want a hungry coach but someone who will draw loyalty from the Organization and Fans but return that loyalty. I doubt he sees going to those without ties to him or the organization as options in all honesty, he'll probably interview a few, but in all likelihood, look for the next head coach to have some ties to the team.

[CrazyHorse]

Kubiak worked with him as well, you could give Dennison half the credit though, the other half to Kubiak.

As far as Quinn goes, one thing about this whole Fox situation is that I believe Elway will want a hungry coach but someone who will draw loyalty from the Organization and Fans but return that loyalty. I doubt he sees going to those without ties to him or the organization as options in all honesty, he'll probably interview a few, but in all likelihood, look for the next head coach to have some ties to the team.

Quinn doesn't bring Seattle's defensive talent with him either, just like McDaniels didn't bring Brady with him and Gase won't bring Manning(well maybe).

[Joel]

Kubiak made the decision to stay in Baltimore before the Denver job opened up. I wouldn't count him out just yet. As far as failing in his first stint as a head coach.......so did Shanahan, Carroll, Belichick, and Coughlin before they all won super bowls in their second go round.
Kubiak didn't exactly "fail" in Houston either; it's like people forgot what a train wreck that 5-year-old team was when he got there. Only a VERY good HC can make a team built from scratch yesterday competitive with decades-old established franchises; Capers did it for all of one season with Carolina, and that's how he got the Texans job, but he quickly proved his '97 NFCCG trip a total fluke.

Then Kubes took over and Houston suddenly had an offense that wasn't a total joke and went from 2-14 Capers' last year to 6-10 Kubiaks first. He only needed ONE more season to produce the first non-losing season in team history (just half a dozen years after the team franchise was born; how long did Denver take to do that,) two years after THAT they had the first winning season in team history, and two years after THAT they had the first division title and playoff wins in team history, a feat duplicated the next year. And that was his FIRST head coaching job; think he learned anything?

He did all that with the likes of David Carr, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Schaub and Rex Grossman as his QB options, with an UDFA he turned into the NFL Rushing Champ. He sucks because he didn't take an expansion team past the divisonal round in 8 years? Looked at Cleveland lately? Or Jacksonville? Guy had ONE awful season when his whole D went on IR and his useless QB exploded on the launchpad in a Plummeresque fashion that was epic even for him, and suddenly he's a failure?

He's too disinterested and passive? Guy had a freaking HEART ATTACK AT HALFTIME because he cares so little. He needed a great coordinator like Phillips to run the half of the game he's clueless about, but so does pretty much EVERY modern coach except Belicheat. Hire Kubiak, Phillips and Dennison and Bob McNair will be eating his heart out within 2-3 years.


They had several collapses where he coached them out of it. They made the playoffs the first time under Kubiak. They should have made it several times before hand.

Sure, Schaub was probably helped by Kubiak. But then again, Schaub for quite some time was a good player. That relationship was as symbiotic as it gets.
"Several" collapses where he "coached them out of it"? They followed their first winning season EVER with a 6-10 campaign, then won the division and made the playoffs two straight years before Schaub had his most spectacular and final collapse, half the D had season-ending injuries, and they finished 2-14; then Kubes was gone. Again: They were 2-14 when he showed up, and he improved them by 4 wins, then had two .500 campaigns, then the first winning season, then the first off year under Kubes, then consecutive division titles, then Schaub and the D fell apart and Kubes got fired.

How'd he "coach them out of it"? I doubt he told Schaub to throw pick-sixes every week, or throw an end zone pick instead of jogging 5 yds through nothing but open space for the game-winner. Did he coach Arian Foster, Owen Daniels and Brian Cushing to half season-ending injuries by Week 7?

Coughlin's not comparable because he had an infant franchise in Jacksonville but Kubiak didn't in Houston? FOUR YEARS; the team EXISTED just FOUR YEARS before Kubiak arrived.

Look, I'm not saying it'll happen, but there's every reason to believe it work fantastically if it did, not least because most of our SB-winning assistants tend to follow Kubiak around rather than Shanny (even Kyle Shanahan's been OC for both, and far more successfully with Kubiak than with his dad.) "Let's get Kyle Shanahan, let's get Greg Knapp, let's get Troy Calhoun:" Let's get EVERY OFFENSIVE ASSISTANT WHO EVER WORKED FOR KUBIAK IN HOUSTON, but NOT Kubiak. Their offensive success with all those guys replacing each other was all each of them, and despite Kubiak.

Makes total sense. :rolleyes:

[Joel]

Kubiak worked with him as well, you could give Dennison half the credit though, the other half to Kubiak.
Since Dennison's joined Kubiak for each move, it's hard to say how much of all three teams' success with them is Kubes vs. Dennison—but since Dennison's joined to Kubes at the hip, I'm not sure it MATTERS: Buy Kubiak, get Dennison free. Considering Dennison's a former SB LB, STs coach, QB coach and offensive line coach, that ain't a bad thing: He's got quality experience with a LOT of different phases of the game, and would likely make a fine head coach himself if he ever wants to be one.

[7DnBrnc53]

Hire Kubiak, Phillips and Dennison and Bob McNair will be eating his heart out within 2-3 years.

If we bring in Phillips, though, we go back to a 3-4. Miller could be good for that, but are the other guys? Would Knighton come back to be a NT?


Capers did it for all of one season with Carolina, and that's how he got the Texans job, but he quickly proved his '96 NFCCG trip a total fluke.

The NFC West was a joke in 1996. St. Louis had a rookie (Tony Banks) and Steve "limp arm" Walsh at QB. Atlanta had June Jones and Jeff George (until he threw a fit). The Saints were awful. And, the 49ers were a paper tiger who had some fluke wins against the Oilers, Bengals, and Redskins.

[Northman]

Well, Kubiak did "ok" in Houston but i wouldnt call him a success nor a failure there. Either way, i wouldnt be opposed to him coming to Denver if Elway thought that would be a good move. Kubes called a heck of a game in NE but fell short in the end.

[TXBRONC]

Well, Kubiak did "ok" in Houston but i wouldnt call him a success nor a failure there. Either way, i wouldnt be opposed to him coming to Denver if Elway thought that would be a good move. Kubes called a heck of a game in NE but fell short in the end.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Kubiak in as the headcoach.

[BroncoJoe]

Love Kubiak, but I'm not sure he is much different than Fox. Temperament wise.

[Northman]

Love Kubiak, but I'm not sure he is much different than Fox. Temperament wise.

Maybe not but i do think he is far more creative playcalling wise and i think we need that more than anything right now.

[Lancane]

Love Kubiak, but I'm not sure he is much different than Fox. Temperament wise.

Kubiak is passionate, I've seen him rant and rave on the sideline and give that spit-drivel mad look. Did we ever really see that out of Fox?

[BroncoJoe]

Kubiak is passionate, I've seen him rant and rave on the sideline and give that spit-drivel mad look. Did we ever really see that out of Fox?

True, and no.

[dogfish]

Quinn doesn't bring Seattle's defensive talent with him either, just like McDaniels didn't bring Brady with him and Gase won't bring Manning(well maybe).

he doesn't bring seattle's talent. . . but our's isn't so bad, and we have the personnel to run that scheme, with a little help at safety. . .

[Lancane]

he doesn't bring seattle's talent. . . but our's isn't so bad, and we have the personnel to run that scheme, with a little help at safety. . .

I truly don't believe Denver is going to go after Quinn, as I posted earlier...I bet this whole ordeal with Fox has left a nasty taste in Elway's mouth about those who are not loyal to the organization, that could be why Del Rio and Gase are not in immediate consideration for the position - they were both more interested in other positions then the ones they currently had. And as Rappaport reported the Broncos will look out of house for a Head Coach, which tells me that Elway does not care who stays from the current staff - they are all expendable. I believe the top candidates will be those with deep ties to the Broncos; Gary Kubiak, Rick Dennison, Mike Nolan, Jim Fassel and Greg Robinson. One coach to keep our eyes on could be Bob Stoops of Oklahoma, he has deep ties to the organization as well.

[BroncoJoe]

I truly don't believe Denver is going to go after Quinn, as I posted earlier...I bet this whole ordeal with Fox has left a nasty taste in Elway's mouth about those who are not loyal to the organization, that could be why Del Rio and Gase are not in immediate consideration for the position - they were both more interested in other positions then the ones they currently had. And as Rappaport reported the Broncos will look out of house for a Head Coach, which tells me that Elway does not care who stays from the current staff - they are all expendable. I believe the top candidates will be those with deep ties to the Broncos; Gary Kubiak, Rick Dennison, Mike Nolan, Jim Fassel and Greg Robinson. One coach to keep our eyes on could be Bob Stoops of Oklahoma, he has deep ties to the organization as well.

Never heard that - what are his ties to the Broncos?

[Lancane]

Never heard that - what are his ties to the Broncos?

The Bowlen Family and the Stoops Family are old, old friends. Bob Stoops has been in considered before but he wanted to stay at Oklahoma. If he's changed his mind about that, it could throw him into serious consideration.

[dogfish]

I truly don't believe Denver is going to go after Quinn, as I posted earlier...I bet this whole ordeal with Fox has left a nasty taste in Elway's mouth about those who are not loyal to the organization, that could be why Del Rio and Gase are not in immediate consideration for the position - they were both more interested in other positions then the ones they currently had. And as Rappaport reported the Broncos will look out of house for a Head Coach, which tells me that Elway does not care who stays from the current staff - they are all expendable. I believe the top candidates will be those with deep ties to the Broncos; Gary Kubiak, Rick Dennison, Mike Nolan, Jim Fassel and Greg Robinson. One coach to keep our eyes on could be Bob Stoops of Oklahoma, he has deep ties to the organization as well.

meh. . . i certainly wouldn't be surprised or dismayed by a kubiak hire, but i think you're over-estimating john's nepotism. . . i would hope that he'd hire the best overall candidate, not get all paranoid and limit his options to his own immediate circle of cronies. . . i think john's smarter than that. . .

[wayninja]

I truly don't believe Denver is going to go after Quinn, as I posted earlier...I bet this whole ordeal with Fox has left a nasty taste in Elway's mouth about those who are not loyal to the organization, that could be why Del Rio and Gase are not in immediate consideration for the position - they were both more interested in other positions then the ones they currently had. And as Rappaport reported the Broncos will look out of house for a Head Coach, which tells me that Elway does not care who stays from the current staff - they are all expendable. I believe the top candidates will be those with deep ties to the Broncos; Gary Kubiak, Rick Dennison, Mike Nolan, Jim Fassel and Greg Robinson. One coach to keep our eyes on could be Bob Stoops of Oklahoma, he has deep ties to the organization as well.

And this is exactly why I find it hard to 'fault' Elway even if he does have some of the Blame. He's the only one in the organization that I trust to be loyal and not mercenary. I think Fox showed his true colors Sunday morning.

[CoachChaz]

I dont think we need a fire and brimstone kind of coach. A quiet and reserved coach can still have the ability to discipline and motivate his team without screaming and ass-chewing all the time.

[BroncoWave]

I truly don't believe Denver is going to go after Quinn, as I posted earlier...I bet this whole ordeal with Fox has left a nasty taste in Elway's mouth about those who are not loyal to the organization, that could be why Del Rio and Gase are not in immediate consideration for the position - they were both more interested in other positions then the ones they currently had. And as Rappaport reported the Broncos will look out of house for a Head Coach, which tells me that Elway does not care who stays from the current staff - they are all expendable. I believe the top candidates will be those with deep ties to the Broncos; Gary Kubiak, Rick Dennison, Mike Nolan, Jim Fassel and Greg Robinson. One coach to keep our eyes on could be Bob Stoops of Oklahoma, he has deep ties to the organization as well.

Wait, so we just got rid of a guy because he never had our team prepared for big games so you want to bring in Stoops?

[silkamilkamonico]

Elway being loyal and going after guys who have deep ties to the organization would be foolish, limit his candidates considerably, and do a disservice to the organization of not getting the best possible guy for the position. I would lose all respect for Elway if he is going about this like that. I don't believe for one second that he is.

[wayninja]

Elway being loyal and going after guys who have deep ties to the organization would be foolish, limit his candidates considerably, and do a disservice to the organization of not getting the best possible guy for the position. I would lose all respect for Elway if he is going about this like that. I don't believe for one second that he is.

Why? You want another guy who would submarine his own team in order to get out of dodge?

I highly doubt that ties to the organization are the only thing Elway is looking for, but he'd be foolish not to learn from this.

[Lancane]

meh. . . i certainly wouldn't be surprised or dismayed by a kubiak hire, but i think you're over-estimating john's nepotism. . . i would hope that he'd hire the best overall candidate, not get all paranoid and limit his options to his own immediate circle of cronies. . . i think john's smarter than that. . .

It has nothing to do with his nepotism per say as that as more and more tidbits are being uncovered we're finding out that there was no loyalty in Fox towards the organization and that it will leave a bad taste in his mouth, and to not look harder at those who would be more loyal as the Head Coach because of ties to the organization would be following the same plan that has led to his current dilemma of having to find another head coach so soon. Elway was not expecting to part ways with Fox, he was trying to mend the fence, that tells me that Fox forced this and I've already stated why - he wanted to go to Chicago and planned on it making it happen. And that doesn't bring into question his smarts either or some sort of paranoia as much as that he likes long-term answers compared to short fixes, Fox was not meant to be a short fix - hence the extension he received. But Quinn has no ties to Denver, there is no way to measure his commitment as a head coach either. Not all coaches will have ties to the Broncos, but they'll have to sell Elway that they are committed, if they can not then it will be those with ties looked at more headily.

[swaiy]

I dont think we need a fire and brimstone kind of coach. A quiet and reserved coach can still have the ability to discipline and motivate his team without screaming and ass-chewing all the time.
This is true but nothing gives confidence that the game ain't over until it's over like a good ass-chewing on the sideline.

[silkamilkamonico]

Why? You want another guy who would submarine his own team in order to get out of dodge?

I highly doubt that ties to the organization are the only thing Elway is looking for, but he'd be foolish not to learn from this.

1) for one, you are going from limitless candidates, to maybe like 5-7 underwelming candidates.
2) this submarining his own team is hogwash. Nobody knows if that's the case here. Just because a guy isn't loyal to an organization with deep ties doesn't mean he's going to throw the organization under the bus for himself.
3) just because a guy does have deep ties, doesn't mean he won't throw the organization under the bus for the sake of his own career and family.

I just think that isn't logical. This is a professional business not a college booster association.

[BroncoJoe]

The more I think about it, I'd love to have Kubiak back.

A tweet from a Baltimore reporter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7NZ4uDCMAA3_Su.jpg

[CoachChaz]

I think any candidate that comes to Denver knows that Manning has one good year left...if that. So they have to expect some growing pains during their tenure here. If you already know that briefly into your stint as the head coach that your going to see some tough times...and you still accept the job over other offers...you are probably pretty dedicated.

I believe that Fox came in with the best of intentions, only to have things change. And maybe that happens with another coach as well, but there is absolutely no way of telling that right away.

[silkamilkamonico]

BTW, where are all these unsubstantiated claims that Fox threw the organization under the bus.

[TimHippo]

Assuming Manning is back and you are going to make one more run to win it all you need an experienced coach who has the ability or has won it all. (An upgrade on Fox).
Hiring someone like Kubiak isn't really an upgrade to Fox and someone young like Quinn is an unknown (the failure rate/lack of super bowl wins for first time HC is quite high).

[OB]

GRUDEN :2cents: I just love the guy - I dont know what it is but I also dont think he wants to coach, does he?

Ad my apologies if this was mentioned earlier - dont have time to read the whole thread

[Lancane]

Elway being loyal and going after guys who have deep ties to the organization would be foolish, limit his candidates considerably, and do a disservice to the organization of not getting the best possible guy for the position. I would lose all respect for Elway if he is going about this like that. I don't believe for one second that he is.

Silk, twice Denver has hired Head Coaches that had little or no ties to the Organization, even Reeves had ties to Denver. Those two times were disastrous, one of course was McDaniels and this is the second. And Fox only got the job because Jim Fassel who has ties to Denver said he was a good coach, so don't be blinded by it all. Hell, Todd Bowles and Kyle Shanahan have ties to the Broncos from past associations, so does Norv Turner if you want to be blinded by my statement rather then see the reasoning. Not are ties are as apparent, but you can bet Elway wants someone looking to be a part of the organization rather then simply collecting a paycheck, using it as practice and whom are invested in the team as much as the team is invested in them.

[silkamilkamonico]

Assuming Manning is back and you are going to make one more run to win it all you need an experienced coach who has the ability or has won it all. (An upgrade on Fox).
Hiring someone like Kubiak isn't really an upgrade to Fox and someone young like Quinn is an unknown (the failure rate/lack of super bowl wins for first time HC is quite high).


ELway may be, but I hope he isn't looking at it like that. Denver is a healthy long term shining option. Any situation with "1 year to figure it out" really dilutes that. Now if Elway is looking at it like, long term position but feel free to make a 1 year run, that's different. But I really hope he puts interest in DEnver for the next 5 years and not the next year. And I hope Manning is back and healthy.

[wayninja]

1) for one, you are going from limitless candidates, to maybe like 5-7 underwelming candidates.

Nah, the candidates are not limitless. It's already limited by who's qualified and who's talented and who's available. That in itself makes the pool fairly small. So in that small pool, you pick a guy that's the right fit, and if Elway wants to hire someone he thinks is going to share his passion not only for winning, but for the Broncos themselves, then I'm behind him.


2) this submarining his own team is hogwash. Nobody knows if that's the case here. Just because a guy isn't loyal to an organization with deep ties doesn't mean he's going to throw the organization under the bus for himself.

It's hogwash? I know the evidence is largely circumstantial, but that doesn't make it hogwash.


3) just because a guy does have deep ties, doesn't mean he won't throw the organization under the bus for the sake of his own career and family.

True, but hiring someone that works well with you and has the organization's best interests at heart simply isn't a bad thing.


I just think that isn't logical. This is a professional business not a college booster association.

Ok, so it's professional. That doesn't mean you can't get a guy that loves his job and the company he works for.

[OB]

Anybody but that milquetoast follower Adam Gase.

Cowher
Jon Gruden

You need a proven winner who is an improvement over Gase, not a question mark rookie HC.

Whats up with everyone using this GD word today - I am stealing from chaz here - did you all get the SAME word of the day calendar

And is it pronounced Milky Toast?

[silkamilkamonico]

Silk, twice Denver has hired Head Coaches that had little or no ties to the Organization, even Reeves had ties to Denver. Those two times were disastrous, one of course was McDaniels and this is the second. And Fox only got the job because Jim Fassel who has ties to Denver said he was a good coach, so don't be blinded by it all. Hell, Todd Bowles and Kyle Shanahan have ties to the Broncos from past associations, so does Norv Turner if you want to be blinded by my statement rather then see the reasoning. Not are ties are as apparent, but you can bet Elway wants someone looking to be a part of the organization rather then simply collecting a paycheck, using it as practice and whom are invested in the team as much as the team is invested in them.

I see your reasoning I just don't agree with it. Make a list of all the coaches with ties to the organization. And then we can make another list of those coaches that are actually desireable options. I bet the two lists will be significantly different. I hope Elway isn't thinking that some ho hum coach will come in and actually be a lot better because he somehow has ties and that will make him better.

I see your reasoning, but I'm sorry, I don't think in any wy that will make a coach better. A coach is going to look out for his career and his family, #1, regardless of ties.

[Lancane]

BTW, where are all these unsubstantiated claims that Fox threw the organization under the bus.

Pretty much been established by various sources from tidbits that have been coming out since the news broke. I am not saying he threw the Divisional Game, but it looks suspect from what all has been coming out, he was not going to return to Denver...even if they won the Super Bowl. And one NFL Exec said he expected Fox to be available as of Monday? But only this executive and Jay Glazier, a friend of Fox's knew about this while the rest of the league was in the dark?

[Lancane]

I see your reasoning I just don't agree with it. Make a list of all the coaches with ties to the organization. And then we can make another list of those coaches that are actually desireable options. I bet the two lists will be significantly different. I hope Elway isn't thinking that some ho hum coach will come in and actually be a lot better because he somehow has ties and that will make him better.

I see your reasoning, but I'm sorry, I don't think in any wy that will make a coach better. A coach is going to look out for his career and his family, #1, regardless of ties.

McDaniels anyone? Sorry, I fully disagree..I believe the problem is that it is hard to measure the commitment of a coach without ties unless they show it in the interview process. If Quinn comes to Denver and fully sells himself in that capacity then he'll get major consideration, but as you well know that for some this is just another paycheck and Elway will not want to be tied to someone like that.

[silkamilkamonico]

Nah, the candidates are not limitless. It's already limited by who's qualified and who's talented and who's available. That in itself makes the pool fairly small. So in that small pool, you pick a guy that's the right fit, and if Elway wants to hire someone he thinks is going to share his passion not only for winning, but for the Broncos themselves, then I'm behind him.

WHo are the actual candidates? It's a wonderful and peachy "theory", but seriously, who are the actualy candidates or list of coaches with ties to the organization?




It's hogwash? I know the evidence is largely circumstantial, but that doesn't make it hogwash.

What are the actualy circumstantial rumous? And who's reporting these rumors, other than message board people with no actual inside information?

[GEM]

Whats up with everyone using this GD word today - I am stealing from chaz here - did you all get the SAME word of the day calendar

And is it pronounced Milky Toast?

TimHippo is the only one using it....over and over. :laugh:

milque·toast
ˈmilktōst/
nounNORTH AMERICAN
a person who is timid or submissive.
"a soppy, milquetoast composer"

[OB]

NO on Stoops - just no (doesnt he have a tendency to blow it in big games - the two I saw this year his clock management and end of game decisions BLEW the game) - not a fan of bringing in any college coach at this point - not if we are going to shoot for the trophy one more time with peyton

[GEM]

That definition doesn't really fit Gase, it more fits Fox.

[wayninja]

WHo are the actual candidates? It's a wonderful and peachy "theory", but seriously, who are the actualy candidates or list of coaches with ties to the organization?

I don't know who Elway is considering. You'd have to ask him. But as I say, I know they have to be qualified, talented, and available. Do you really think that's limitless?




What are the actualy circumstantial rumous? And who's reporting these rumors, other than message board people with no actual inside information?

Lancane already responded to you. Glazer reported before the game hinting that Fox may 'become available' if he loses to the colts despite having a contract and despite a report from Klis that firing Fox was never on the table.

That's circumstantially points to Fox wanting out of Denver.

[OB]

TimHippo is the only one using it....over and over. :laugh:

milque·toast
ˈmilktōst/
nounNORTH AMERICAN
a person who is timid or submissive.
"a soppy, milquetoast composer"

I thought I saw a Joel post with it in there somewhere but I have read more posts on here in the last two days than I have in the last year so i could be mistaken

[silkamilkamonico]

Pretty much been established by various sources from tidbits that have been coming out since the news broke. I am not saying he threw the Divisional Game, but it looks suspect from what all has been coming out, he was not going to return to Denver...even if they won the Super Bowl. And one NFL Exec said he expected Fox to be available as of Monday? But only this executive and Jay Glazier, a friend of Fox's knew about this while the rest of the league was in the dark?

I'm sorry but that doesn't tell me anything. I can say this or that or that guy said this and he said that and he heard from this guy and so on.


McDaniels anyone? Sorry, I fully disagree..I believe the problem is that it is hard to measure the commitment of a coach without ties unless they show it in the interview process. If Quinn comes to Denver and fully sells himself in that capacity then he'll get major consideration, but as you well know that for some this is just another paycheck and Elway will not want to be tied to someone like that.

Your argument for this is exactly 1 or 2 coaches. Out of the hundreds of coaches that have ever coached in the NFL? Or are you saying Denver is somehow should be different? Did Pete Carroll have ties to the Seattle? I don't know I'm asking? If he isn't, does that mean I can use him to say it's not a good argument? I'm sorry, but using 1 coach who was too immature and inexperienced and was somehow right about his situation with the benefit of hindsight as somehow, because he didn't have ties, coaches should have ties, I just don't buy that I'm sorry.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't know who Elway is considering. You'd have to ask him. But as I say, I know they have to be qualified, talented, and available. Do you really think that's limitless?





Lancane already responded to you. Glazer reported before the game hinting that Fox may 'become available' if he loses to the colts despite having a contract and despite a report from Klis that firing Fox was never on the table.

That's circumstantially points to Fox wanting out of Denver.

SOI he's throwing the team under the bus because he feels like there are certain gameplans being used that he doesn't think, in his own professional experience and opinion, is good for the game? Sorry, coaches should be involved with the gameplans. Especially the head coaches, they shouldn't be created against their own discretion, or don't hire the guy. That doesn't mean he's throwing the organization under the bus. If that's the evidence, that's weak sauce from someone who has been wrong before.

[wayninja]

I'm sorry but that doesn't tell me anything. I can say this or that or that guy said this and he said that and he heard from this guy and so on.

yeah, that's what circumstantial means. Sometimes you aren't going to be handed all the inside facts and have to draw conclusions with the way things play out from what is publicly said/reported. It's cool if you don't see it, and I'm not saying it must be true. But it certainly doesn't look good for fox, IMO.




Your argument for this is exactly 1 or 2 coaches. Out of the hundreds of coaches that have ever coached in the NFL? Or are you saying Denver is somehow should be different? Did Pete Carroll have ties to the Seattle? I don't know I'm asking? If he isn't, does that mean I can use him to say it's not a good argument? I'm sorry, but using 1 coach who was too immature and inexperienced and was somehow right about his situation with the benefit of hindsight as somehow, because he didn't have ties, coaches should have ties, I just don't buy that I'm sorry.

You are making this more black and white than it needs to be. No one is arguing that a coach MUST have ties, just that Elway is probably going to be valuing that trait in a potential candidate.

[BroncoJoe]

Why would it be a bad thing for our next coach to have ties to the organization?

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't know who Elway is considering. You'd have to ask him. But as I say, I know they have to be qualified, talented, and available. Do you really think that's limitless?



We could probably get a list of coaches that have DEnver ties. Shanahan, Kubiack, Nolan, Fassel, etc.. I'm struggling to think of anyone else, espcially qualiafied. Yes, I am starting to think it's not limitless.

[TimHippo]

ELway may be, but I hope he isn't looking at it like that. Denver is a healthy long term shining option. Any situation with "1 year to figure it out" really dilutes that. Now if Elway is looking at it like, long term position but feel free to make a 1 year run, that's different. But I really hope he puts interest in DEnver for the next 5 years and not the next year. And I hope Manning is back and healthy.

You worry about long term later when Manning is gone.

You bring in Gruden, Cowher, or Shanahan for 1 year, not a long term contract. Face it once Manning retires it will be rebuild mode.

[Bronco9798]

You worry about long term later when Manning is gone.

You bring in Gruden, Cowher, or Shanahan for 1 year, not a long term contract. Face it once Manning retires it will be rebuild mode.

Neither of those three will be in Denver. Especially Gruden. He's a better TV guy than a coach. Plus, I never heard of a 1 year coaching contract.

[wayninja]

You worry about long term later when Manning is gone.

You bring in Gruden, Cowher, or Shanahan for 1 year, not a long term contract. Face it once Manning retires it will be rebuild mode.

If Denver get's a reputation for using and abusing the people they hire, who's going to want to come work for us?

Elway went all in with Fox for 4 years and it didn't work out. Manning doesn't look to have much gas left in the tank. Your next coach needs to stick around for a while.

[Jsteve01]

ELway may be, but I hope he isn't looking at it like that. Denver is a healthy long term shining option. Any situation with "1 year to figure it out" really dilutes that. Now if Elway is looking at it like, long term position but feel free to make a 1 year run, that's different. But I really hope he puts interest in DEnver for the next 5 years and not the next year. And I hope Manning is back and healthy.

You worry about long term later when Manning is gone.

You bring in Gruden, Cowher, or Shanahan for 1 year, not a long term contract. Face it once Manning retires it will be rebuild mode.. And when you are a super bowl winning coach who has a cush TV job and gets offers every year why in the world would you sign a one year prove it deal for a team in transition

[aberdien]

NO on Stoops - just no (doesnt he have a tendency to blow it in big games - the two I saw this year his clock management and end of game decisions BLEW the game) - not a fan of bringing in any college coach at this point - not if we are going to shoot for the trophy one more time with peyton

Hiring Stoops would be a McDaniels-level disaster.

[silkamilkamonico]

I think with Fox his beliefs just weren't working. Maybe that's why there was changes he didn't have say in, if that's the case like what is being pointed out. I don't think that means he was throwing the organization under the bus. The guys on the radio (yes, they aren't insdiers, but they know a hell of a lot more than we do) are saying Fox didn't agree with what was happening to the offensive gameplan the last few weeks and it was something that was brewing. He felt like as a HC his authority was diminishing, which is understandable. There isn't a HC with his stature that would allow himself to be in a position where he lost authority. There would be issues. And there was. And that's why Fox is gone. I just don't think that means he was somehow cirumventing the organization. It just because a different of views and was time to move on.

I don't think a coach with ties is a bad thing if he's the best guy possible, I just hope Elway isn't limiting his candidates to that value like what is being viewed. The guys off the top of my head who have ties to the organization, are very underwhleming. IMHO.

[Bronco9798]

Hiring Stoops would be a McDaniels-level disaster.

It would be more than that. :cool:

[silkamilkamonico]

You worry about long term later when Manning is gone.

You bring in Gruden, Cowher, or Shanahan for 1 year, not a long term contract. Face it once Manning retires it will be rebuild mode.

How easy is it to install a scheme in 1 year? WIth an older QB who has limits? I understand and can agree with worry about rebuilding when Manning is gone, but what isthe likelihood that some guy comes in, puts everything in place for 1 year and a SuperBowl run? I guess it has been done twice off the top of my head, but I don't think those coaches, Guden and Tomlin, were hired with that kind of pressue.

[NightTerror218]

No way our team enter rebuild mode. Look at all the young talent on team. Travathan, Thomases, Millwr, Harris and Roby. We have a second round QB who if he waited anither year might have been a first round QB who has sat behind Manning to be groomed. We have Clady, Talib, and Ward for the next 4 years. We have drafted well.

If you think we are rebuilding you are an idiot. We have a great team foundation in place.

[BroncoJoe]

No way our team enter rebuild mode. Look at all the young talent on team. Travathan, Thomases, Millwr, Harris and Roby. We have a second round QB who if he waited anither year might have been a first round QB who has sat behind Manning to be groomed. We have Clady, Talib, and Ward for the next 4 years. We have drafted well.

If you think we are rebuilding you are an idiot. We have a great team foundation in place.

I wouldn't use the word great, but it's certainly solid.

[TimHippo]

How easy is it to install a scheme in 1 year? WIth an older QB who has limits? I understand and can agree with worry about rebuilding when Manning is gone, but what isthe likelihood that some guy comes in, puts everything in place for 1 year and a SuperBowl run? I guess it has been done twice off the top of my head, but I don't think those coaches, Guden and Tomlin, were hired with that kind of pressue.

As long as Manning and Elway are here they are in charge. Getting some young coordinator who has a 5 year plan is not going to go well with Peyton. Peyton will have little respect for such a youngster. All Peyton cares about is winning now, hiring a young coordinator just means that you are moving on from Peyton Manning.

[Lancane]

I'm sorry but that doesn't tell me anything. I can say this or that or that guy said this and he said that and he heard from this guy and so on.

Silk, Ian Rappaport and Vic Lombardi both were told per one NFL Executive (unanimous of course) that he expected John Fox to be available as soon as Monday after the loss. Jay Glazier also reported before the Divisional Round that should the Broncos lose to the Colts that Fox and the Broncos would likely part ways, he also said that Elway and Fox had been at odds as had Fox and his coordinators. Before you dismiss it all, Glazier is a long-time friend to Fox - so he was not running at the mouth. Also, if you look at Accorsi being hired as an advisor to Chicago who is also a long-time friend with Fox and who brought in Pace as the General Manager who happened to be from Sean Payton's staff who is another long-term friend to Fox - and Accorsi stating they want to match-up a veteran coach with the young G.M. though none were available then boom? Remember the so-called NFL Executive? Rappaport reported that Elway fully expected Fox to return, he had no plans to search for another head coach or staff. This all puts the divorce at Fox rather then Elway, despite the so-called mutual agreement to go separate ways. And if you take into consideration what Fox pulled in Carolina his last season, it makes too much sense. If you want to believe something else, well I won't stop you...but blinders only block out so much crap before you notice trends.


Your argument for this is exactly 1 or 2 coaches. Out of the hundreds of coaches that have ever coached in the NFL? Or are you saying Denver is somehow should be different? Did Pete Carroll have ties to the Seattle? I don't know I'm asking? If he isn't, does that mean I can use him to say it's not a good argument? I'm sorry, but using 1 coach who was too immature and inexperienced and was somehow right about his situation with the benefit of hindsight as somehow, because he didn't have ties, coaches should have ties, I just don't buy that I'm sorry.

Yeah, Carroll was previously friends with a number of people within the Seattle organization including Shneider and Idzik two of their personnel executives. And Elway did not expect to have to search for a head coach, this is not on him - if John had expected this, I believe Harbaugh would not have gone to Michigan but would be waiting for a call to come to Denver. Fox wasn't fired, Fox wanted out...so instead of making it a messy divorce they did it the easy way. But after such a divorce to you look to jump into another marriage with a stranger? Or do you marry a friend that has more in common with you then the ex-wife?

[wayninja]

snip

Incredibly well put.

[Ziggy]

I think we'll know who initiated the split between Fox and the Broncos when the contract numbers come out. If the Broncos still owe him 3 years salary, then it was all Elway. If he has no salary owed, then it was all Fox. If it's somewhere in between, then it truly was mutual.

[BroncoJoe]

I think we'll know who initiated the split between Fox and the Broncos when the contract numbers come out. If the Broncos still owe him 3 years salary, then it was all Elway. If he has no salary owed, then it was all Fox. If it's somewhere in between, then it truly was mutual.

I don't think that had anything to do with it, personally.

[OB]

OK - really dumb question but the coaches salary doesnt harm us as a team or does it?

[Lancane]

I think we'll know who initiated the split between Fox and the Broncos when the contract numbers come out. If the Broncos still owe him 3 years salary, then it was all Elway. If he has no salary owed, then it was all Fox. If it's somewhere in between, then it truly was mutual.

That has nothing to do with the split. This was the final year of the original contract but Fox signed an extension. So how does it go from signing an extension to wanting out within one season? Obviously he and Elway were not at such odds that he did not want to extend himself with the organization before now, as I said before there is a stink to this that far outweighs what we know and is fouler as we learn more about it all.

[Buff]

I think we'll know who initiated the split between Fox and the Broncos when the contract numbers come out. If the Broncos still owe him 3 years salary, then it was all Elway. If he has no salary owed, then it was all Fox. If it's somewhere in between, then it truly was mutual.

Vic was saying today that salary was a factor in the timing... The Broncos will be on the hook for his salary unless he takes another job - so it was in the Broncos interests to cut him loose now with maximum opportunity for another job.

[TimHippo]

I think we'll know who initiated the split between Fox and the Broncos when the contract numbers come out. If the Broncos still owe him 3 years salary, then it was all Elway. If he has no salary owed, then it was all Fox. If it's somewhere in between, then it truly was mutual.

You probably will never know. If Fox signs with Chicago, then Denver doesn't have to pay his salary.

The only way Denver would have to pay it is if he couldn't get a coaching job and sat out the season at home or doing TV commentating. But that could still mean that Fox initiated it and just wanted to get away from Denver and get free money.

[Lancane]

OK - really dumb question but the coaches salary doesnt harm us as a team or does it?

It hurts the money allocated to staff which is not part of the cap. However, when you mutually agree to part ways it ends the contract from that point forward or is suppose to. The Broncos will pay Fox a further 11 million he was due, but should have no further obligation hence forth, but either way it would not effect the overall cap space.

[Lancane]

Vic was saying today that salary was a factor in the timing... The Broncos will be on the hook for his salary unless he takes another job - so it was in the Broncos interests to cut him loose now with maximum opportunity for another job.

Not sure that applies in case of mutual parting, I know that is true when it comes to firing someone under contract but Denver did not fire him or cut him loose as you put it.

[Buff]

Not sure that applies in case of mutual parting, I know that is true when it comes to firing someone under contract but Denver did not fire him or cut him loose as you put it.

I'm just telling you what I heard from Vic. Fox is under contract and I don't think he resigned/quit.

[Lancane]

I'm just telling you what I heard from Vic. Fox is under contract and I don't think he resigned/quit.

Who the hell knows, but I know that Elway was not expecting this nor planned on it according to Schefter or Rappaport, so in that one meeting Monday they decided to mutually part, that should change the aspect of the contract with further obligation or it would have been better to be fired for Fox or for Denver for him to literally quit.

[Hawgdriver]

I dont think we need a fire and brimstone kind of coach. A quiet and reserved coach can still have the ability to discipline and motivate his team without screaming and ass-chewing all the time.

The team needs a head coach with vision, and it might take Manning's departure for this to happen.

[Jsteve01]

I dont think we need a fire and brimstone kind of coach. A quiet and reserved coach can still have the ability to discipline and motivate his team without screaming and ass-chewing all the time.

The team needs a head coach with vision, and it might take Manning's departure for this to happen.. I don't care for fire and brimstone. I do want passion

[Joel]

How easy is it to install a scheme in 1 year? WIth an older QB who has limits? I understand and can agree with worry about rebuilding when Manning is gone, but what isthe likelihood that some guy comes in, puts everything in place for 1 year and a SuperBowl run? I guess it has been done twice off the top of my head, but I don't think those coaches, Guden and Tomlin, were hired with that kind of pressue.
Gruden had the advantage of having literally written his SB opponents playbook, too; Tomlin's basically the only coach to EVER win a SB his first year. It just takes too much readjustment, both between personalities on the existing roster and those on an entire new coaching STAFF, and shifting from one offensive and defensive philosophy to another. It took Switzer two tries with a team a blind monkey could've run on autopilot. That's why he had to do this a year or two ago, because I just can't imagine Manning being the first 40-year-old QB to win a SB.

[Joel]

No way our team enter rebuild mode. Look at all the young talent on team. Travathan, Thomases, Millwr, Harris and Roby.

Roby's legit, but re-signing Harris is costing nearly half as much as Manning, both Thomases are pricey FAs this year, and Miller and Trevathan will be next year (plus Trevathan broke the same knee in different places and times this year; who knows how soon he's his old self again, if ever.)


We have a second round QB who if he waited anither year might have been a first round QB who has sat behind Manning to be groomed.
Manning doesn't groom backups; he monopolizes every game AND PRACTICE snap, an Oz has publicly said he doesn't pester Manning with constant questions. How much has he learned riding pine and throwing practice passes to guys like Caldwell, Holliday and Latimer while Gase drilled Manning and the first team on how to run next weeks game? Prob'ly not much; the drafts always a crap shoot even for top picks with all the measurables and intangibles in their favor, and Oz is practically a 25-year-old rookie.


We have Clady, Talib, and Ward for the next 4 years.
And all of them hit 30 in TWO years. Clady's had a pair of season-ending injuries in 5 years and played like crap all season after both; don't count on 4 more All Pro seasons from him. Talib plays a speed position and makes Clady look invulnerable.


We have drafted well.
We've drafted OK; our coups have nearly all been FAs of proven ability, which is great, but proving that ability and finishing their rookie contracts put a lot on their odometers.


If you think we are rebuilding you are an idiot. We have a great team foundation in place.
We'll see. That's what I said when people called me an idiot in 2012 for saying this is where we'd be after 2014; here's hoping I'm a lot more wrong this time.

[Ravage!!!]

Oz hasn't sat for 10 years behind Manning, and how much did he learn from watching him? Probably a TON. QBs come out of college and are expected to start from day 1 out of the NCAA, there is no reason to think that Oz is too old or has sat too long behind Manning. Nor is there a reason, yet, to believe that Oz hasn't learned anything in his sitting and watching. It's ignorant to think that players can't learn without being the starter. Before the days of the Giant contracts, QBs were expected to sit and learn. That was thrown away due to money being spent, not because it wasn't effective.

25 isn't old. He's basically a rookie, but one that has been around the NFL, around the team, learning the ways to practice like a professional. One that has seen 3 years of prepping, like a professional. One that has been around the long grind of the NFL season, like a professional. To say there isn't value in all those things, is being intentionally blind.

[Ravage!!!]

We'll see. That's what I said when people called me an idiot in 2012 for saying this is where we'd be after 2014; here's hoping I'm a lot more wrong this time.

:lol: Ohhh, was that before or after you were telling us we should have kept Tebow??

[CoachChaz]

Oz hasn't sat for 10 years behind Manning, and how much did he learn from watching him? Probably a TON. QBs come out of college and are expected to start from day 1 out of the NCAA, there is no reason to think that Oz is too old or has sat too long behind Manning. Nor is there a reason, yet, to believe that Oz hasn't learned anything in his sitting and watching. It's ignorant to think that players can't learn without being the starter. Before the days of the Giant contracts, QBs were expected to sit and learn. That was thrown away due to money being spent, not because it wasn't effective.

25 isn't old. He's basically a rookie, but one that has been around the NFL, around the team, learning the ways to practice like a professional. One that has seen 3 years of prepping, like a professional. One that has been around the long grind of the NFL season, like a professional. To say there isn't value in all those things, is being intentionally blind.

Agreed. By this time, the one thing he is missing is the most important...learning by making mistakes. He'll get his chance.

[Ravage!!!]

Of course we are in a 'rebuilding' mode. This isn't much different than when Manning left Indy...except they had Luck all lined up. New coaching staff with most probably, a new young QB behind center. Of course its a rebuilding year. We most definitely have more talent than Indy did during their first year without Manning, however.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed. By this time, the one thing he is missing is the most important...learning by making mistakes. He'll get his chance.

Absolutely. That is a HUGE part in being a success in the NFL. But, as you know, every young QB has to go through that. Whether they are 22 or 25.

[Horse Force]

Don't count out Elway doing something crazy. He seems to make big splashes and doing the impossible. I say Urban Meyer. He said he didn't want an NFL job. But what else are you gonna say if asked if you're gonna come back to Ohio State... College coaches lie about that all the time. Believe in the impossible! He fits every criteria of what Elway wants.

[Lancane]

Don't count out Elway doing something crazy. He seems to make big splashes and doing the impossible. I say Urban Meyer. He said he didn't want an NFL job. But what else are you gonna say if asked if you're gonna come back to Ohio State... College coaches lie about that all the time. Believe in the impossible! He fits every criteria of what Elway wants.

Not going to happen....first off, Denver has deep ties with two well known collegiate coaches in Greg Robinson and Bob Stoops who would both get a look before Urban Meyer. Secondly, he has deep ties to the New England Patriots Organization. You want to know who will likely proceed Belichick it's Urban Meyer. Not to mention that Meyer is not known for running pro-style system that fits our quarterbacks and it would be far too radical to make a change toward a collegiate system which has failed continuously and so horrendously at the pro level.

[Simple Jaded]

Don't count out Elway doing something crazy. He seems to make big splashes and doing the impossible. I say Urban Meyer. He said he didn't want an NFL job. But what else are you gonna say if asked if you're gonna come back to Ohio State... College coaches lie about that all the time. Believe in the impossible! He fits every criteria of what Elway wants.

Elway wants an NFL HC , I'm assuming, not a college coach.

[TXBRONC]

Don't count out Elway doing something crazy. He seems to make big splashes and doing the impossible. I say Urban Meyer. He said he didn't want an NFL job. But what else are you gonna say if asked if you're gonna come back to Ohio State... College coaches lie about that all the time. Believe in the impossible! He fits every criteria of what Elway wants.

Welcome to Broncos Forums, and with that said, I wouldn't count on Elway doing something like that.

[Simple Jaded]

When the NFL is full of Urban Meyers and Chip Kelly's I will be playing a lot more golf.

[Northman]

Yea, Meyer is great at the college level but im very skeptical of them when they start coming into the NFL. Too many bad experiences (for other franchises) where the coaches either suck or end up bolting on the teams to go back to college. I would rather find someone who is proven at the professional level (coordinator or otherwise) than take a risk on a college coach at this point.

[pulse]

Urban Meyer is a control freak. That can work great on the collegiate level with staff and players, but the NFL does not work that way. Chip Kelly is not nearly the control freak that Urban Meyer is when it comes to the ins and outs of his personnel and players. The NFL has already had experience with one of these kind of coaches. His name is Steve Spurrier. I don't think John Elway is going to perform a coaching experiment with a team this loaded with talent. Perhaps we have to replace the QB and a few lineman, but you're still inside a window as far as overall team talent to continue on as a championship contender for a few more years. On the other hand, if Peyton Manning is going to give Denver another year or two, I will bet the farm it won't be with Urban Meyer. This team needs an NFL ready coach, not an experiment.

[Ravage!!!]

Urban Meyer is a control freak. That can work great on the collegiate level with staff and players, but the NFL does not work that way.

It absolutely works at the NFL level. Belicheck, Harbaugh, Coughlin, Kelly, Arians are all control 'freaks'...and those are just at the top of my head.

[NightTrainLayne]

Never heard that - what are his ties to the Broncos?

Bowlen went to OU, and is a huge alumni supporter. Stoops has visited Broncos training camps and practices numerous times, but mainly back in the Shanahan years when Bowlen was more active.

I don't know if I call that deep roots, but there is a relationship.

[Lancane]

Bowlen went to OU, and is a huge alumni supporter. Stoops has visited Broncos training camps and practices numerous times, but mainly back in the Shanahan years when Bowlen was more active.

I don't know if I call that deep roots, but there is a relationship.

Several of the Stoops are friends with the Bowlens, it's become a familial friendship. His brother Mike who is also a coach is friends with I believe Bowlen's son who sits on the Board of Directors.

[NightTrainLayne]

Several of the Stoops are friends with the Bowlens, it's become a familial friendship. His brother Mike who is also a coach is friends with I believe Bowlen's son who sits on the Board of Directors.

Yes, but when I think "deep roots" I think guys like Kubiak or Dennison or Turner. Guys who actually have been a part of the Broncos organization. The Stoops' are friends with the Bowlens because Bowlen is an OU alumnus. Bowlen has deep roots at OU. The Stoops' (imo) have a great relationship with the Bowlens and by default the Broncos, but I don't consider that "deep roots".

[Lancane]

Yes, but when I think "deep roots" I think guys like Kubiak or Dennison or Turner. Guys who actually have been a part of the Broncos organization. The Stoops' are friends with the Bowlens because Bowlen is an OU alumnus. Bowlen has deep roots at OU. The Stoops' (imo) have a great relationship with the Bowlens and by default the Broncos, but I don't consider that "deep roots".

Okay, I get what you are saying that it's more personal then truly organizational. Which does make sense, I just remember that Stoops was contacted by Bowlen to see if he was interested before we hired McDaniels and the whole relationship between the two family's came to light.

[Simple Jaded]

I'd call that deep roots to the Broncos, Pat Bowlen is the Denver Broncos.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't buy for one minute that roots to the organization is a priority in all of this, and if it is, then ELway is more concerned about keeping a family culture in Denver than a Championship culture.

[Lancane]

I don't buy for one minute that roots to the organization is a priority in all of this, and if it is, then ELway is more concerned about keeping a family culture in Denver than a Championship culture.

But you have to remember that Elway learned most of his football management from Shanahan, Reeves, Bowlen and the staff members through those years. During those two coaching tenures the Broncos were noted for such hires, the Bates, Slowiks, Baileys, etc. But it is not unheard of, remember Ben McDaniels was brought in by his brother, your own Josh McDaniels...so hindsight is always 20/20 and I wouldn't quip too much, one such tie - Shanahan brought Denver it's only two Super Bowl Championships.

[silkamilkamonico]

But you have to remember that Elway learned most of his football management from Shanahan, Reeves, Bowlen and the staff members through those years. During those two coaching tenures the Broncos were noted for such hires, the Bates, Slowiks, Baileys, etc. But it is not unheard of, remember Ben McDaniels was brought in by his brother, your own Josh McDaniels...so hindsight is always 20/20 and I wouldn't quip too much, one such tie - Shanahan brought Denver it's only two Super Bowl Championships.

I understand - I just don't think it's going to be a selling point for him. The only person he has requested an interview with who has ties is Kubiak and that seems to be a lukewarm situation at best right now. Dennison doesn't seem to be anywhere in the picture right now, an he shouldn't be. based on best possible candidates.

[TXBRONC]

But you have to remember that Elway learned most of his football management from Shanahan, Reeves, Bowlen and the staff members through those years. During those two coaching tenures the Broncos were noted for such hires, the Bates, Slowiks, Baileys, etc. But it is not unheard of, remember Ben McDaniels was brought in by his brother, your own Josh McDaniels...so hindsight is always 20/20 and I wouldn't quip too much, one such tie - Shanahan brought Denver it's only two Super Bowl Championships.

I'm sure Elway learned something from his experiences with those guys but I wouldn't put any stock in that being the core of his philosophy. Elway has Business degree from Standford, has owned multiple car dealerships in the Denver metroplex, and had ownership in an Arena League franchise. Given how Elway has handled the job so far he's nothing like Shanahan on the administrative side.

[Jsteve01]

But you have to remember that Elway learned most of his football management from Shanahan, Reeves, Bowlen and the staff members through those years. During those two coaching tenures the Broncos were noted for such hires, the Bates, Slowiks, Baileys, etc. But it is not unheard of, remember Ben McDaniels was brought in by his brother, your own Josh McDaniels...so hindsight is always 20/20 and I wouldn't quip too much, one such tie - Shanahan brought Denver it's only two Super Bowl Championships.

I'm sure Elway learned something from his experiences with those guys but I wouldn't put any stock in that being the core of his philosophy. Elway has Business degree from Standford, has owned multiple car dealerships in the Denver metroplex, and had ownership in an Arena League franchise. Given how Elway has handled the job so far he's nothing like Shanahan on the administrative side. exactly let's not forget that the ultimate rift between shanny and bowlen was over slowick. Can you foresee a scenario in which Elway refuses to cut ties with the overseer of a bottom dwelling unit like the defense was in 2007……?

[TXBRONC]

exactly let's not forget that the ultimate rift between shanny and bowlen was over slowick. Can you foresee a scenario in which Elway refuses to cut ties with the overseer of a bottom dwelling unit like the defense was in 2007……?

Just because Elway has experience with Shanahan doesn't mean he's adopted wholesale Shanahan's approach. In fact it looks like he's done opposite.

[Lancane]

Just because Elway has experience with Shanahan doesn't mean he's adopted wholesale Shanahan's approach. In fact it looks like he's done opposite.

Actually that approach could be argued to have been from Bowlen and Reeves, they were well known for such practices as hiring relations and friends.

[OB]

Adam Schefter just reported all signs point to Kubiak and it will be announced Tuesday

[BroncoJoe]

I can imagine how the interview will go:

Elway: So, Gary, how's the wife and kids?
Kubes: Great - although you know that. We talk every week or so.
Elway: Right. How was the flight?
Kubes: Good. Are we going to watch the games today, or just chit-chat?
Elway: We'll watch the games, but I need to obviously ask you a few questions first.
Kubes: Fine. (pulls out all his tapes, schemes, player evaluations, details on his offense with or without Peyton, OC and DC coordinator wants, etc.)
Elway: First, do you want to be the HC of the Broncos?
Kubes: Why do you think I came here?
Elway: True. So, when can you start?
Kubes: Today. Can we watch the games now?
Elway: Sure.

[Rick]

Adam Schefter just reported all signs point to Kubiak and it will be announced Tuesday

Hope that just means press conference and we find out sooner than that.

[ShaneFalco]

I think Kube is a great coach to have come in for Denver.

i was worried we would be stuck with some random.

[Joel]

I can imagine how the interview will go:

Elway: So, Gary, how's the wife and kids?
Kubes: Great - although you know that. We talk every week or so.
Elway: Right. How was the flight?
Kubes: Good. Are we going to watch the games today, or just chit-chat?
Elway: We'll watch the games, but I need to obviously ask you a few questions first.
Kubes: Fine. (pulls out all his tapes, schemes, player evaluations, details on his offense with or without Peyton, OC and DC coordinator wants, etc.)
Elway: First, do you want to be the HC of the Broncos?
Kubes: Why do you think I came here?
Elway: True. So, when can you start?
Kubes: Today. Can we watch the games now?
Elway: Sure.
Nah, I'm reliably informed that if they talked weekly it'd be tampering: We'd be penalized with fines, forfeited draft picks and probably a few summary executions. :tongue:

[vettesplus]

Adam Schefter just reported all signs point to Kubiak and it will be announced Tuesday

sounds like its kubs job to turn down, I hope he and john can come to terms, great choice for the broncos and all there fans... I liked kub as a qb, oc and now hope for the same feeling as a hc for the broncos...