Fox and Denver parting ways per Schefter

[silkamilkamonico]

I think he's been very good overall. Roby was a great pick.

He can't draft RBs, though.

He's drafted a combined 4 starters in the first 3 rounds of all drafts sincehe's been here, and 3 of those were in his first year when he better not have screwed up the 2nd round pick.

And yes...I agree Roby was a solid pick.

[TXBRONC]

I wonder which ones. Would be interesting to see specifically which ones....like maybe CJ ahead of ball or Franklin at OG instead of rt....or maybe smaller ones like, types of plays on offense or defense or st. Or who is active on game day or inactive?

I'd really like to know. I wonder how much Elway has say in this? IMO, and I could be way off, elway shouldn't really have any say in who is up or down on game day, or plays or anything else...not saying he does either

That's not what Klis said or even eluded too. He said it had do with do with personnel decisions such who they drafted, free agent pick ups, and setting of the roster. Who plays and where was always Fox's decision.

[underrated29]

We can't draft OL. That's the position they can't seem to hit on. Franklin was good, and paradis may be good. The rest have been garbage.

[Simple Jaded]

Idk, silk, if Manning retires the Osweiler pick keeps looking better and better, regardless of whether or not he pans out at least they have a prospect in the fold with some valuable experience.

[underrated29]

That's not what Klis said or even eluded too. He said it had do with do with personnel decisions such who they drafted, free agent pick ups, and setting of the roster. Who plays and where was always Fox's decision.

I didn't say he did. I was trying to understand what he meant.....
I wonder who he would have drafted and set the roster with. I think the FA have been amazing tho.

[tomjonesrocks]

Idk, silk, if Manning retires the Osweiler pick keeps looking better and better, regardless of whether or not he pans out at least they have a prospect in the fold with some valuable experience.

Oz would be the worst QB in the division.

[I Eat Staples]

Passing comment while skimming the thread...

Schaub didn't fail in Houston, he had some good years with them. It just all fell apart last year for whatever reason and the fans ran him out of town.

[silkamilkamonico]

Bullshit.

He still has not drafted a quality 2nd round pick. I will up your bullshit and call hogwash - on ELways drafting.

[Simple Jaded]

Oz would be the worst QB in the division.

First of all, how the **** do we know?

Second, that's not even the point, this draft is garbage at the QB position and Osweiler has the tools to mold and some head start on experience that rookie won't.

[chazoe60]

He still has not drafted a quality 2nd round pick. I will up your bullshit and call hogwash - on ELways drafting.

Well we should just fire him. Oh and Derrick Wolfe says Hi.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Just listened to this - very good - Mike Klis speaking from Dove Valley earlier today. Not sure if it is my computer or what, but the video kept stopping and starting - but as I said - some good info from Klis

http://dptv.denverpost.com/2015/01/12/broncos-coach-john-fox-and-broncos-part-ways-dptv-update-from-dove-vally/

[silkamilkamonico]

Well we should just fire him. Oh and Derrick Wolfe says Hi.

Your argument for a quality first rouynd player in 4 drafts is Derek WOlfe? The same guy that lost his starting job to Malik Jackson, only to get it back because his other first round pick Sylveter WIlliams busted, and he had to move Malik Jackson inside?

LMAO wow

[TXBRONC]

Well we should just fire him. Oh and Derrick Wolfe says Hi.

Orlando Franklin also says hi.

[silkamilkamonico]

Orlando Franklin also says hi.

Sylvester WIlliams says bye.

All second round picks say "inactive". Wait - there's Rahim Moore, the guy that apparent cost us a ring.

[silkamilkamonico]

Just listened to this - very good - Mike Klis speaking from Dove Valley earlier today. Not sure if it is my computer or what, but the video kept stopping and starting - but as I said - some good info from Klis

http://dptv.denverpost.com/2015/01/12/broncos-coach-john-fox-and-broncos-part-ways-dptv-update-from-dove-vally/

Thanks for the link - will have to listen to that when I get home.

[TXBRONC]

Sylvester WIlliams says bye.

All second round picks say "inactive". Wait - there's Rahim Moore, the guy that apparent cost us a ring.

Williams started the entire season and he wasn't 2nd round pick.

Also I've defended Moore several occasion.

[chazoe60]

Your argument for a quality first rouynd player in 4 drafts is Derek WOlfe? The same guy that lost his starting job to Malik Jackson, only to get it back because his other first round pick Sylveter WIlliams busted, and he had to move Malik Jackson inside?

LMAO wow

2nd round pick and if you don't think Wolfe is a quality player then you should start watching ice skating.

[underrated29]

2nd round pick and if you don't think Wolfe is a quality player then you should start watching ice skating.


Hey, what's wrong with ice skating?

[chazoe60]

Hey, what's wrong with ice skating?

Nothing if there's sticks involved.

[silkamilkamonico]

2011
Von Miller
Rahim Moore
Orlando Franklin
Nate Irving
Quentin Carter
Julius Thomas
Mike Mullhound
Virgil Green
Jeremy Beal

F'n stellar class. No bones about it and cannot argue with it.

2012
Derek WOlfe
Brock Osweiler
Ronnie Hillman
Omar Bolden
Philip Blake
Malik Jackson
Danny Treviathon

Last 2 picks were gems. First 5 picks, not so much.

2013
Sylvester Williams
Montee Ball
Kayvon Webster
Quanterrus SMith]
Tavares King
Vincent Painter
Zac Dysert

LMAO wut?

2014
Bradley Roby
Cody Latimer
Michael Schofiled
Lamin Barrow
Matt Paradis
Corey Nelson

Really too early, but Roby was the only one to relaly show anything.

Let's just get the man some help with what he's been doing so we don't have to worry about free agency, becausze SuperBowl winning teams have never been built through free agency. They have been disappointments - just like the Broncos this year, who had a stellar free agency.

[underrated29]

Nothing if there's sticks involved.


Oh alright

[silkamilkamonico]

Williams started the entire season and he wasn't 2nd round pick.

Also I've defended Moore several occasion.

Right, he was a first round pick and he got booted from his starting poisiton by a 6th round DE.

[TXBRONC]

Hey, what's wrong with ice skating?

If you like it then everything is wrong with it. :wave:





:D

[TXBRONC]

Right, he was a first round pick and he got booted from his starting poisiton by a 6th round DE.

Williams started the entire season Silk and Jackson irrc is listed as DT/DE.

[silkamilkamonico]

2nd round pick and if you don't think Wolfe is a quality player then you should start watching ice skating.

Quality is a little bit different than first round impact. You should get quality in the middle rounds. Wolfe had all of 1.5 sacks this year.

And I love how you guys are bringing up like 2 players to try and justify the 30 or so players he's drafted.

[Ziggy]

He's drafted a combined 4 starters in the first 3 rounds of all drafts sincehe's been here, and 3 of those were in his first year when he better not have screwed up the 2nd round pick.

And yes...I agree Roby was a solid pick.

Von Miller- Starter
Orlando Franklin- Starter
Rahim Moore- Starter
Derek Wolfe- Starter
Sylvester Williams- Starter

That's 5. Montee Ball was also a starter before he got hurt. Roby would start on a lot of teams. Denver is loaded with talent Silk. Starting positions aren't easy to come by on a team as talented as this one. Elway has done fine with the draft, and better with free agency. 9 pro bowlers and 2 more that should have made it. (Sanders and Pot Roast) Denver has as much talent on their roster from top to bottom as any team in the NFL.

[chazoe60]

Anyone who doesn't think Wolfe is a quality player isn't paying attention or flat out doesn't know what the **** they're talking about.

[chazoe60]

Quality is a little bit different than first round impact. You should get quality in the middle rounds. Wolfe had all of 1.5 sacks this year.

And I love how you guys are bringing up like 2 players to try and justify the 30 or so players he's drafted.

Wolfe was a second round pick FFS

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi retweeted
Jim Saccomano @broncos_sacco · 42m

Press conference by John Elway at noon Tuesday at Broncos Dove Valley HQ. #fb

[silkamilkamonico]

Williams started the entire season Silk and Jackson irrc is listed as DT/DE.

He did not start the playoff game - nor the last month or so of the season.

[silkamilkamonico]

Wolfe was a second round pick FFS



Holy shit - well that just justifies absolutely everything then.

lol

[TXBRONC]

Quality is a little bit different than first round impact. You should get quality in the middle rounds. Wolfe had all of 1.5 sacks this year.

And I love how you guys are bringing up like 2 players to try and justify the 30 or so players he's drafted.

Silk I'm not attacking you.

[Poet]

You cut ties with one of the weakest willed and softest successful coaches ever.

Let the rejuvenation begin.

[chazoe60]

Holy shit - well that just justifies absolutely everything then.

lol

It started with your statement that Elway has never made a quality second round pick. Holy shit you don't even pay attention to yourself why should I expect you to pay attention to football.

[Dzone]

Hopefully , in addition to winning the super bowl, it is someone entertaining to listen to. Fox was boring as hell. Every comment seemed to be pretty much canned. Every interview was exactly like the week before

[Joel]

Passing comment while skimming the thread...

Schaub didn't fail in Houston, he had some good years with them. It just all fell apart last year for whatever reason and the fans ran him out of town.
Which good years were those? He was on some good TEAMS that made the playoffs in 2011 and 2012, but he was just along for the ride.

Remember Sunday when everyone was covered and everyone was screaming at Manning to run 5 yds for the conversion when there was NO ONE near him? I was watched Schaub do that to the nth degree against Oakland in 2011: Down 5 (IIRC; TD wins, FG loses is the key thing here) at the end, they got inside the Raiders 10 with about as many seconds left, so Schaub takes the snap, rolls out to his left, no one near him everyone covered, holds it, holds it (I'm screaming "RUN FOR THE GAME-WINNER, MORON!") finally takes a step and a half forward and a safety finally sees it and starts moving up

Interception in the end zone: Game over, because Schaub had no balls, recognition or decisiveness; all traits critical to QB success. I said then and there Kubiak had to find a way to get rid of Schaub fast or get played out of a job; it took another year and a half, J.J. Watts breakout playoff game and Jacoby Jones giving the Ravens a trip to the Conference Championship by refusing to fair catch a punt with a gunner on him at the goal line, then fumbling it to Houstons 2 when hit, but a month and a nearly half a dozen pick-sixes into 2013 everyone else saw what I saw in 2011.

What the Falcons saw when they traded Schaub to Houston (trying to hide their snickers) and drafted Ryan. None of that's on Kubes (and how do I loathe Jacoby Jones costing my hometown its first trip to an AFCCG since I was 4 years old?)

[BroncoWave]

You cut ties with one of the weakest willed and softest successful coaches ever.

Let the rejuvenation begin.

How jealous are you right now King?

[aberdien]

Wouldn't it be funny if the Bengals fired Marvin Lewis and hired John Fox?

[Poet]

Wouldn't it be funny if the Bengals fired Marvin Lewis and hired John Fox?

I want Lewis fired.

Signing a marginally better version of Lewis would...make me put on an Aaron Rodgers jersey and pretend I wasn't from Ohio.

[Joel]

Re: Elways drafts, I just wish he'd spend a high pick on a guard when it was painfully obvious we needed one desperately even before (but certainly after) we lost an overrated LG in FA. Spending the 96th overall pick on a RT in a draft so deep and G and OT there's no WAY the immediate starter we need lasts that long is incomprehensible. Sure, I love Roby, but Webster was pretty good, and we had Harris and Talib: A better dimeback than Bolden or Tony Carter wouldn't have won us last years SB, but a better G than Beadles or Franklin very well could've, and was sorely missed this year.

Contenders don't get over the hump going Best Player LEFT after 30 Others Pick; go for the best when you can GET the best and have so many holes he's a difference maker WHEREVER he plays. Roby's good, but no Von Miller; Von Millers don't stick around till #31, but there's usually several good players there at every position, so EVERY team can immediately fill the hole that made them SB runner up.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 16m

Given the state of the Broncos coaching staff, the NFL is looking into alternatives for the Pro Bowl. Anybody wanna coach?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 6m

Ravens will be coaching Pro Bowl team now that Broncos coaching staff is toast. Ravens next-highest AFC seed to lose in second round

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 1h

I was told by NFL source Jets did not seek to interview John Fox. For what it's worth. Many believe Fox is hooked up with Bears.We'll see.

[Joel]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 16m

Given the state of the Broncos coaching staff, the NFL is looking into alternatives for the Pro Bowl. Anybody wanna coach?
Like anyone cares about the Pro Bowl since they moved it and turned into a pickup game. Even the PLAYERS don't care (in fact, they hate it, because they're all great players whose seasons ended early.)

[Poet]

Joel, I saw the Ravens and the Steelers draft late and strictly go BPA for years. Sometimes they had a SB and picked last, other times it was in the late 20's. I don't know if I agree with you or not, but was there a really good guard available at that standpoint?

[Jsteve01]

Which good years were those? He was on some good TEAMS that made the playoffs in 2011 and 2012, but he was just along for the ride.

Remember Sunday when everyone was covered and everyone was screaming at Manning to run 5 yds for the conversion when there was NO ONE near him? I was watched Schaub do that to the nth degree against Oakland in 2011: Down 5 (IIRC; TD wins, FG loses is the key thing here) at the end, they got inside the Raiders 10 with about as many seconds left, so Schaub takes the snap, rolls out to his left, no one near him everyone covered, holds it, holds it (I'm screaming "RUN FOR THE GAME-WINNER, MORON!") finally takes a step and a half forward and a safety finally sees it and starts moving up

Interception in the end zone: Game over, because Schaub had no balls, recognition or decisiveness; all traits critical to QB success. I said then and there Kubiak had to find a way to get rid of Schaub fast or get played out of a job; it took another year and a half, J.J. Watts breakout playoff game and Jacoby Jones giving the Ravens a trip to the Conference Championship by refusing to fair catch a punt with a gunner on him at the goal line, then fumbling it to Houstons 2 when hit, but a month and a nearly half a dozen pick-sixes into 2013 everyone else saw what I saw in 2011.

What the Falcons saw when they traded Schaub to Houston (trying to hide their snickers) and drafted Ryan. None of that's on Kubes (and how do I loathe Jacoby Jones costing my hometown its first trip to an AFCCG since I was 4 years old?)

2012 Houston Texans 16 16 350 544 64.3 4,008 7.4 22 12 27 216 90.7 21 -9 -0.4 0 4 0
2011 Houston Texans 10 10 178 292 61.0 2,479 8.5 15 6 16 98 96.8 15 9 0.6 2 3 1
2010 Houston Texans 16 16 365 574 63.6 4,370 7.6 24 12 32 226 92.0 22 28 1.3 0 9 3
2009 Houston Texans 16 16 396 583 67.9 4,770 8.2 29 15 25 149 98.6 48 57 1.2 0 3 2
2008 Houston Texans 11 11 251 380 66.1 3,043 8.0 15 10 23 149 92.7 31 68 2.2 2 10 4
2007 Houston Texans 11 11 192 289 66.4 2,241 7.8 9 9 16 126 87.2 17 52 3.1 0 7 3

[CrazyHorse]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 6m

Ravens will be coaching Pro Bowl team now that Broncos coaching staff is toast. Ravens next-highest AFC seed to lose in second round

He's actually the perfect coach to provide stability to that organization.

[NightTrainLayne]

Joel, I saw the Ravens and the Steelers draft late and strictly go BPA for years. Sometimes they had a SB and picked last, other times it was in the late 20's. I don't know if I agree with you or not, but was there a really good guard available at that standpoint?

Surely there was King. Since we didn't take one, obviously we left a great one on the board.

[Jsteve01]

His passer rating over his career with the Texans if you toss his rookie year and the last year he played there was an avg of 93. for 6 years he was one of the top ten qbs in the league. Again not elite but very very good. He threw for over 4k yards three times. Not sure who you were watching but the guy that was "along for the ride" helped to carry that team before the arrival of Wade and a stellar defense.

[MOtorboat]

Surely there was King. Since we didn't take one, obviously we left a great one on the board.

The three guards widely regarded as first-third round guards available when Denver picked started a COMBINED eight games this season. That narrative Joel pumps is crap.

Rather have the cornerback. Much more important position and Denver made the right pick. Roby is a stud.

[tomjonesrocks]

2011 Von Miller Rahim Moore Orlando Franklin Nate Irving Quentin Carter Julius Thomas Mike Mullhound Virgil Green Jeremy Beal F'n stellar class. No bones about it and cannot argue with it. 2012 Derek WOlfe Brock Osweiler Ronnie Hillman Omar Bolden Philip Blake Malik Jackson Danny Treviathon Last 2 picks were gems. First 5 picks, not so much. 2013 Sylvester Williams Montee Ball Kayvon Webster Quanterrus SMith] Tavares King Vincent Painter Zac Dysert LMAO wut? 2014 Bradley Roby Cody Latimer Michael Schofiled Lamin Barrow Matt Paradis Corey Nelson Really too early, but Roby was the only one to relaly show anything. Let's just get the man some help with what he's been doing so we don't have to worry about free agency, becausze SuperBowl winning teams have never been built through free agency. They have been disappointments - just like the Broncos this year, who had a stellar free agency.

That stands with almost any organizations drafts. Schofield stands out as a head scratcher. The RBs are disappointing. I thought both Sylvester and Quanterus would have done more but both flashed and I get why they were picked fail or not.

But considering drafting out of the back of drafts to get Roby in the first last season was great.

Overall it's a decent effort. Let's talk about Shanny's drafts.

[Jsteve01]

and the Franklin sucks theme is getting old. They Broncos had one hole to fill on the o line and they missed at RT. By the end of the season excluding his bone headed penalties Franklin was our most consistent offensive lineman. Highest rated pass blocking guiard in the AFC per pff, and I know you conveniently missed it but he was an animal pulling when they got him out in space.

[MOtorboat]

and the Franklin sucks theme is getting old. They Broncos had one hole to fill on the o line and they missed at RT. By the end of the season excluding his bone headed penalties Franklin was our most consistent offensive lineman. Highest rated pass blocking guiard in the AFC per pff, and I know you conveniently missed it but he was an animal pulling when they got him out in space.

Yeah. But on one play on Sunday...

[Poet]

I don't think there are too many teams ahead of the Broncos in terms of drafting. I mean yeah, there are a few, but holy crap if those draft classes are things to take issue with then you must really expect Elway to become Ozzie Newsome good in a short amount of time...

[tomjonesrocks]

I don't think there are too many teams ahead of the Broncos in terms of drafting. I mean yeah, there are a few, but holy crap if those draft classes are things to take issue with then you must really expect Elway to become Ozzie Newsome good in a short amount of time...

Agree completely. Top third in the NFL for sure.

Not to mention The UDFAs. Not bad there either.

[Jsteve01]

The only beef I've had with Elway's drafts was seeming lack of equal value, but then I just say to myself "alphonso smith" and I feel much better

[Poet]

Agree completely. Top third in the NFL for sure.

Not to mention The UDFAs. Not bad there either.

Elway has brokered a lot of successful FA deals. He is a solid drafter at worst -I would argue above average- and I think the win now mentality that the Bronco fanbase has lends itself to over-appreciating the young guys who are producing now and disregarding the developing guys. He got you Manning. He made a bold coaching move that a lot of the fans were clamoring for.

The man is active. He came into the franchise during a very precarious period of time.

[Jsteve01]

you get that much talent and quality depth out of those drafts and you have to give the guy credit. Far too early with the last two draft classes to write anyone off on a team that is as deep as the Broncos are. I'll tell you two guys that should retain their jobs from this staff and it's Richard Smith and Studesville.

[Jsteve01]

Elway has brokered a lot of successful FA deals. He is a solid drafter at worst -I would argue above average- and I think the win now mentality that the Bronco fanbase has lends itself to over-appreciating the young guys who are producing now and disregarding the developing guys. He got you Manning. He made a bold coaching move that a lot of the fans were clamoring for.

The man is active. He came into the franchise during a very precarious period of time. King I think I'm starting to like you as more than friends

[Poet]

King I think I'm starting to like you as more than friends

My stomach isn't the only girthy part of me. Bring lube.

[tomjonesrocks]

The only beef I've had with Elway's drafts was seeming lack of equal value, but then I just say to myself "alphonso smith" and I feel much better

McD somehow picked DT over Dez. Character over a raw talent headcase, and talent we had to wait a long time on. Balls.

Other than that it's a ******* grease fire. Broken clock...

[tomjonesrocks]

My stomach isn't the only girthy part of me. Bring lube.

Whoa--hey oh!

[Poet]

McD somehow picked DT over Dez. Character over a raw talent headcase, and talent we had to wait a long time on. Balls.

Other than that it's a ******* grease fire. Broken clock...

There is a lot of truth to this - players develop at different paces for a variety of different reasons. Look at your RB's for instance: you had a lot of young guys get an opportunity to play ball this year and at other positions you have talent sitting on the bench. It's not going to be shocking when some guys on your team who have produced regress and others who have not produced/played go out there and get the job done.

[Jsteve01]

McD somehow picked DT over Dez. Character over a raw talent headcase, and talent we had to wait a long time on. Balls.

Other than that it's a ******* grease fire. Broken clock... Well he nabbed Decker, and two decent o linemen that draft as well. credit where it's due and all

[Poet]

Oh no, these thread explode when he who must not be named is named.

[MOtorboat]

Oh no, these thread explode when he who must not be named is named.

#McDanielsin2015

[tripp]

McD somehow picked DT over Dez. Character over a raw talent headcase, and talent we had to wait a long time on. Balls.

Other than that it's a ******* grease fire. Broken clock...

Dez has the same issues that B-Marsh had, no way he'd go down that road. Good call by McD. DT's first year sucked too, he had that injury which kept him out for the season and it didn't seem like that draft pick was panning out.

[Jsteve01]

Oh no, these thread explode when he who must not be named is named.

Ive been in several management positions and the first thing I learned was not to fix what aint broke just to leave your mark. Good managers/coaches come in, evaluate the problem areas, focus a majority of their energy on those then utilize some of their assets to refine the things that are already working. McDouche as Sharpe said so well, "got a hot rod with a brand new motor that needed a new transmission and decided to scrap the motor and the transmission" There is no definition for that man than douchebag. And shame on Joe Ellis for letting the Goodmans go after what was still probably the best draft I've ever seen by one team in 2006

[Simple Jaded]

"Bring lube" and Josh McDaniels, coming to a nightmare near you.

[MOtorboat]

Ive been in several management positions and the first thing I learned was not to fix what aint broke just to leave your mark. Good managers/coaches come in, evaluate the problem areas, focus a majority of their energy on those then utilize some of their assets to refine the things that are already working. McDouche as Sharpe said so well, "got a hot rod with a brand new motor that needed a new transmission and decided to scrap the motor and the transmission" There is no definition for that man than douchebag. And shame on Joe Ellis for letting the Goodmans go after what was still probably the best draft I've ever seen by one team in 2006

That draft was fool's gold. There's a reason they aren't working and haven't since.

[Simple Jaded]

We're applauding McDaniels for not ******* up two draft picks but it's the Goodman's that were fools gold?

[Jsteve01]

Fools gold all you like Mo but name a better draft

[MOtorboat]

We're applauding McDaniels for not ******* up two draft picks but it's the Goodman's that were fools gold?

When did I applaud McDaniels' draft? Not here. That's for sure.

[MOtorboat]

Fools gold all you like Mo but name a better draft

The players in that draft have a combined one playoff win. Don't give me that crap.

[Jsteve01]

The players in that draft have a combined one playoff win. Don't give me that crap. whaaa? all the players in that draft have a combined one playoff wins in their careers Mo? Come on. dude.

[MOtorboat]

whaaa? all the players in that draft have a combined one playoff wins in their careers Mo? Come on. dude.

My bad. Dumervil got one the other day. Two.

That draft class is absolute fool's gold. They aren't winners.

[ShaneFalco]

i hope adam gets the job.

[Simple Jaded]

When did I applaud McDaniels' draft? Not here. That's for sure.

I said we, as in this thread.

[7DnBrnc53]

2011
Von Miller
Rahim Moore
Orlando Franklin
Nate Irving
Quentin Carter
Julius Thomas
Mike Mullhound
Virgil Green
Jeremy Beal

F'n stellar class. No bones about it and cannot argue with it.

2012
Derek WOlfe
Brock Osweiler
Ronnie Hillman
Omar Bolden
Philip Blake
Malik Jackson
Danny Treviathon

Last 2 picks were gems. First 5 picks, not so much.

2013
Sylvester Williams
Montee Ball
Kayvon Webster
Quanterrus SMith]
Tavares King
Vincent Painter
Zac Dysert

LMAO wut?

2014
Bradley Roby
Cody Latimer
Michael Schofiled
Lamin Barrow
Matt Paradis
Corey Nelson

Really too early, but Roby was the only one to relaly show anything.

Let's just get the man some help with what he's been doing so we don't have to worry about free agency, becausze SuperBowl winning teams have never been built through free agency. They have been disappointments - just like the Broncos this year, who had a stellar free agency.

Let's take a look at these drafts:

2011: Great, except he should have taken Stefen Wisniewski and DeMarco Murray instead of Rahim Less and Nate Irving.

2012: Should have taken Cordy Glenn instead of Derek Wolfe (to complete the re-building of the O-line that should have happened immediately), and then Wolfe should have been taken in Round 3 (he was a reach at 2). Also, they shouldn't have drafted Blake, and they should have drafted Vontaze Burfict.

2013: Williams, Webster, Smith, and Dysert may turn out to be great. Ball was a mistake. King and Painter were not ready to play, and didn't get a chance to develop here.

2014: Roby was a home run. Latimer may be as well. I was upset that we didn't get more corners than Roby, however, because I thought that Talib would get hurt again (there were very few injuries there, though).

[Poet]

You can't hold Burfict against the Broncos. No one drafted him. The Bengals signed him as an UDFA after he lost weight and convinced Lewis and Zimmer that he was a changed man.

[MOtorboat]

I always love the "we shoulda drafted ___________" stuff.

[chazoe60]

I always love the "we shoulda drafted ___________" stuff.

Look at all the teams that should have drafted Tom Brady

[VonDoom]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 33m33 minutes ago

Broncos will seek permission to interview Ravens OC Gary Kubiak, who played and coached in Denver but has said he would stay in Baltimore.

[NightTrainLayne]

Look at all the teams that should have drafted Tom Brady

WE should have drafted Tom Brady!

[TXBRONC]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 33m33 minutes ago

Broncos will seek permission to interview Ravens OC Gary Kubiak, who played and coached in Denver but has said he would stay in Baltimore.

I think it's good move by Elway to at least attempt to interview Kubiak.

[Northman]

I think it's good move by Elway to at least attempt to interview Kubiak.

Same.

[Dreadnought]

Well, I sure turned out to be wrong on this whole mess.

[Northman]

Well, I sure turned out to be wrong on this whole mess.

Why is that?

[Dreadnought]

Why is that?

I saw no reason to fire the coaching staff whatsoever, and was confident that we wouldn't see any sort of overreaction like this

[TXBRONC]

I saw no reason to fire the coaching staff whatsoever, and was confident that we wouldn't see any sort of overreaction like this

If Mike Klis is correct Fox was the one that wanted to leave more than Elway wanted to let him go.

[Northman]

I saw no reason to fire the coaching staff whatsoever, and was confident that we wouldn't see any sort of overreaction like this

So you think it was a mistake to fire Fox?

[Krugan]

All signs seem to point at Fox wanting to go elsewhere.

I really hope that this isnt a sign of maybe our heads of office getting to involved into the game planning and everyday preparing of the players.

Most likely its fox wanted more control and Denver didnt want to give it, so fox decided he was ready for something more.

[GEM]

After listening to some talk radio, I'm a bit angry for the way Fox pulled this during our game weekend. I think it was selfish and not great leadership. No wonder the game plan was shit....all the coaches were too busy trying to get other jobs than to perform the one where they were already getting paid.

[wayninja]

After listening to some talk radio, I'm a bit angry for the way Fox pulled this during our game weekend. I think it was selfish and not great leadership. No wonder the game plan was shit....all the coaches were too busy trying to get other jobs than to perform the one where they were already getting paid.

Yep, I mentioned this in another thread. The media didn't blow this up or anything, but it doesn't make it any less of a distraction, and the timing sucked ass.

[Buff]

After listening to some talk radio, I'm a bit angry for the way Fox pulled this during our game weekend. I think it was selfish and not great leadership. No wonder the game plan was shit....all the coaches were too busy trying to get other jobs than to perform the one where they were already getting paid.

Mike Evans said that it was sleazy on Fox's part and I don't disagree.

[tomjonesrocks]

After listening to some talk radio, I'm a bit angry for the way Fox pulled this during our game weekend. I think it was selfish and not great leadership. No wonder the game plan was shit....all the coaches were too busy trying to get other jobs than to perform the one where they were already getting paid.

Just amazing. I was under the impression this was a happy family.

We don't know shit.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

But the playoffs, where his record was 2-3 with Peyton Manning behind center, got Fox. An inexplicable report Sunday that Fox could be "available" should the Broncos lose to the Colts was a significant domino as well.

There were those with the team who believed somebody in Fox's camp or Fox himself was the source, and that made it appear as though he was planning on losing before a down had been played. Then, the Broncos went out looking disjointed and sluggish.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/11363/playoff-failure-spelled-end-for-john-fox

[Buff]

Just amazing. I was under the impression this was a happy family.

We don't know shit.

If nothing else, we should be grateful that everyone was professional and didn't go leaking everything to the media midseason like San Francisco. Actually kind of surprising that in this day and age the team was able to keep so many things a secret.

[GEM]

Makes you look at Vic's comments about the locker room a whole lot different.

[weazel]

After listening to some talk radio, I'm a bit angry for the way Fox pulled this during our game weekend. I think it was selfish and not great leadership. No wonder the game plan was shit....all the coaches were too busy trying to get other jobs than to perform the one where they were already getting paid.

I just got on here, what happened... I'm lost

[Buff]

I just got on here, what happened... I'm lost

Fox leaked the report to Glazer before the game saying that he'd be interested in other job openings. All of that was news to John Elway. We predictably proceeded to lose the game and now everyone is wondering if Fox already has his sights set on another job before we played the Colts.

[Bronco9798]

Maybe Fox just didn't like working for Elway. It seems like with Fox interviewing with the Bears, Del Rio to Oakland, and Gase with the 49er's, maybe they pulled a coup against Elway and are now getting the last laugh. Maybe they all hated working for him. Just a thought. You never know. Gase nor Del Rio (to my knowledge) have come out and said anything publicly about how wonderful it was working for a guy like Elway and wishing him and the Broncos the best or anything. Maybe they just all didn't like working for the guy and pooched the game plan. That would be childish and unprofessional, but maybe they despised him that much. I doubt it, but it's a thought.

[BroncoJoe]

Maybe Fox just didn't like working for Elway. It seems like with Fox interviewing with the Bears, Del Rio to Oakland, and Gase with the 49er's, maybe they pulled a coup against Elway and are now getting the last laugh. Maybe they all hated working for him. Just a thought. You never know. Gase nor Del Rio (to my knowledge) have come out and said anything publicly about how wonderful it was working for a guy like Elway and wishing him and the Broncos the best or anything. Maybe they just all didn't like working for the guy and pooched the game plan. That would be childish and unprofessional, but maybe they despised him that much. I doubt it, but it's a thought.

The only reason I can think of if they didn't care for Elway is he's too demanding and wants to win. If that's the case, good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I think the consensus is Elway is one of the top GM's/VP's in the NFL. I can absolutely imagine he is a total jerk if he feels the coaches aren't doing a good job, and rightfully so.

[Bronco9798]

The only reason I can think of if they didn't care for Elway is he's too demanding and wants to win. If that's the case, good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I think the consensus is Elway is one of the top GM's/VP's in the NFL. I can absolutely imagine he is a total jerk if he feels the coaches aren't doing a good job, and rightfully so.

Good point. But, a lot of those people that see Elway a a great GM, etc., don't work inside the building with him everyday. But, I see your point. A lot of questions and probably a lot of smut to still come out.

[BroncoJoe]

Good point. But, a lot of those people that see Elway a a great GM, etc., don't work inside the building with him everyday. But, I see your point. A lot of questions and probably a lot of smut to still come out.

I had a good sales year, but December was god-awful. I could call my boss a jerk during that month, because he was. BUT, I wasn't preforming to a set standard either.

[Bronco9798]

I had a good sales year, but December was god-awful. I could call my boss a jerk during that month, because he was. BUT, I wasn't preforming to a set standard either.

This is big time sports we're talking here though man. Not really a good comparison. :-)

[weazel]

Fox leaked the report to Glazer before the game saying that he'd be interested in other job openings. All of that was news to John Elway. We predictably proceeded to lose the game and now everyone is wondering if Fox already has his sights set on another job before we played the Colts.

oh... interesting. Have never been a fan of Fox, but that is extra slimy

[VonDoom]

After listening to some talk radio, I'm a bit angry for the way Fox pulled this during our game weekend. I think it was selfish and not great leadership. No wonder the game plan was shit....all the coaches were too busy trying to get other jobs than to perform the one where they were already getting paid.

This kind of reminded me of 2012 with McCoy but on a larger scale. I hate the interviews during bye weeks. I'd like to think it doesn't affect the game planning for that week, but it seems like it does, at least in our case.

[BroncoJoe]

This is big time sports we're talking here though man. Not really a good comparison. :-)

I think it's a fair comparison in the sense that if certain expectations aren't met, your boss (regardless of profession) can come off as a jerk.

These guys get paid big money to do what they do. The Broncos spent big money to bring in the necessary parts to compete for a championship. I imagine Elway wasn't the friendliest guy around when we lost to St. Louis and the Bengals, then basically didn't show up for a playoff game after having two weeks off to prepare.

[tripp]

If nothing else, we should be grateful that everyone was professional and didn't go leaking everything to the media midseason like San Francisco. Actually kind of surprising that in this day and age the team was able to keep so many things a secret.

Lately I've been feeling that that game Sunday was over before it started. Coaches priorities were in a different place, players confidence was down as Peyton had an injury.

[tripp]

oh... interesting. Have never been a fan of Fox, but that is extra slimy

That selfish ****. Appears like he knew we were going to lose that game.

[Dreadnought]

I think it's a fair comparison in the sense that if certain expectations aren't met, your boss (regardless of profession) can come off as a jerk.

These guys get paid big money to do what they do. The Broncos spent big money to bring in the necessary parts to compete for a championship. I imagine Elway wasn't the friendliest guy around when we lost to St. Louis and the Bengals, then basically didn't show up for a playoff game after having two weeks off to prepare.

OTOH, if the GM is allowing the future HOF QB to act like he effectively runs the show and undermine the authority of the coaching staff that would also get old really quick. Could be all of the above. Like him as a coach or not (and I do) Fox has an impeccable reputation as a good guy and a straight shooter.

[Buff]

Lately I've been feeling that that game Sunday was over before it started. Coaches priorities were in a different place, players confidence was down as Peyton had an injury.

That seems to be the consensus in Denver this morning. The coaches were all focused on their next jobs and we had a one-legged QB. I wish I had known - I wouldn't have wasted my money on a ticket to the game.

[BroncoJoe]

OTOH, if the GM is allowing the future HOF QB to act like he effectively runs the show and undermine the authority of the coaching staff that would also get old really quick. Could be all of the above. Like him as a coach or not (and I do) Fox has an impeccable reputation as a good guy and a straight shooter.

Yep - it's all our speculation, and we'll probably never know the reality. Just throwing crap against the wall... something might stick!

[BroncoJoe]

That seems to be the consensus in Denver this morning. The coaches were all focused on their next jobs and we had a one-legged QB. I wish I had known - I wouldn't have wasted my money on a ticket to the game.

At least I had "fun" at the party. Well, not really, but I am glad I didn't go to the game.

[tripp]

That seems to be the consensus in Denver this morning. The coaches were all focused on their next jobs and we had a one-legged QB. I wish I had known - I wouldn't have wasted my money on a ticket to the game.

I don't understand how you work so hard to get the 2nd seed in the AFC only to blow it away. I guess this season was just an audition for some coaches.

[Bronco9798]

Maybe the entire coaching staff were sick of Manning and Elway both. It'll all come out one day.

[Bronco9798]

Yep - it's all our speculation, and we'll probably never know the reality. Just throwing crap against the wall... something might stick!

I think in time, somebody will come out with all the smut and details. it will all start leaking soon.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I put absolutely no stock in Gase or DelRio interviewing with other teams for a HC position, an indication that they want to get away from Elway. If that were the case, then I guess any other person with the other NFL teams who are interviewing for a HC position would indicate that they also want away from someone in their organization.

As far as Fox being let go, in articles I posted, it stated that there was no indication that Elway was thinking about letting Fox go, and then the Glazer bombshell came, while Fox Sports was doing their pregame for the Packers/Dallas game. When I heard him say that, I thought - how would you know that - Sal Paolantonio from ESPN was here all week covering the Broncos, and all of the local sports people, of course, were covering them, and NO ONE locally said anything about that. THEN, I read where Fox and Glazer were friends. In the article I posted from FOX sports yesterday after Fox/Elway parted ways, it was stated that Glazer was the FIRST person Fox called after being let go.

[Dreadnought]

I don't understand how you work so hard to get the 2nd seed in the AFC only to blow it away. I guess this season was just an audition for some coaches.

No, I think that's just silly. They didn't win because they weren't good enough, or their QB wasn't good enough (the team's special teams, defense, run game, pass blocking really wasn't that bad IMO.) Why? Good question. Manning has been brilliant, but he was hurt, he is getting old, and he doesn't have a great record v. playoff caliber opponents. Andrew Luck was better on that day.

[CoachChaz]

Just playing Devil's advocate, but if Elway is to blame for this potential debacle...who the hell fires HIM?

[BroncoJoe]

Maybe the entire coaching staff were sick of Manning and Elway both. It'll all come out one day.

Well, I'll take Elway's side every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

Yes, I am biased...

[BroncoJoe]

Just playing Devil's advocate, but if Elway is to blame for this potential debacle...who the hell fires HIM?

Joe Ellis?

[VonDoom]

Lately I've been feeling that that game Sunday was over before it started. Coaches priorities were in a different place, players confidence was down as Peyton had an injury.

Seems like a poor way for the Manning era to end, if that's indeed what we saw. It was embarrassing to watch, frankly. But I wonder what would have happened if we had somehow scraped by and then lost to the Pats anyway. Would Fox still be gone? Or would he just be unhappy where he was next year, with both coordinators leaving? We'll never know, but it seems like the national media is already surprised that we let a winning coach like Fox go. If he had gone Super Bowl / AFCCG in back to back years and then get fired anyway? Elway would probably be crucified in the media.

[Dreadnought]

Just playing Devil's advocate, but if Elway is to blame for this potential debacle...who the hell fires HIM?

Well now that's a damned good question you raise, ain't it? You just may have to be burnt at the stake for suggesting, even indirectly, that Mr. Elway might have a share of blame though. That is Heresy!

[Bronco9798]

I put absolutely no stock in Gase or DelRio interviewing with other teams for a HC position, an indication that they want to get away from Elway. If that were the case, then I guess any other person with the other NFL teams who are interviewing for a HC position would indicate that they also want away from someone in their organization.

As far as Fox being let go, in articles I posted, it stated that there was no indication that Elway was thinking about letting Fox go, and then the Glazer bombshell came, while Fox Sports was doing their pregame for the Packers/Dallas game. When I heard him say that, I thought - how would you know that - Sal Paolantonio from ESPN was here all week covering the Broncos, and all of the local sports people, of course, were covering them, and NO ONE locally said anything about that. THEN, I read where Fox and Glazer were friends. In the article I posted from FOX sports yesterday after Fox/Elway parted ways, it was stated that Glazer was the FIRST person Fox called after being let go.

Each situation with each team every year is different. It seems there was more involved here than any of us know. There is a lot of speculation and usually where's there's smoke, there's fire. I think in time there will be a lot more to all of this.

[GEM]

Maybe the entire coaching staff were sick of Manning and Elway both. It'll all come out one day.

A lot of people don't like their bosses, they still perform the job they are paid to do.

[Bronco9798]

Well, I'll take Elway's side every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

Yes, I am biased...

Of course we will. We watched him for 17 years of our life and worshiped the guy he brought us Two Super Bowls. But things change, people change, etc., I love the guy too. But these coaches have no reason to like him as we all did.

[Bronco9798]

A lot of people don't like their bosses, they still perform the job they are paid to do.

Right, a lot do, and some don't.

[Buff]

Just playing Devil's advocate, but if Elway is to blame for this potential debacle...who the hell fires HIM?


Well now that's a damned good question you raise, ain't it? You just may have to be burnt at the stake for suggesting, even indirectly, that Mr. Elway might have a share of blame though. That is Heresy!

I'm not sure I'm ready to call this a debacle yet. If Elway didn't like his coaching staff then it wouldn't be surprising if he made their lives miserable. If John Fox got his feelings hurt along the way because he didn't have enough power, or wanted to go spread his wings away from two HOFers with a ton of clout, I'm completely comfortable with that.

If Elway develops a track record of alienating quality coaches, then I'll revisit this comment.

[Bronco9798]

I'm not sure I'm ready to call this a debacle yet. If Elway didn't like his coaching staff then it wouldn't be surprising if he made their lives miserable. If John Fox got his feelings hurt along the way because he didn't have enough power, or wanted to go spread his wings away from two HOFers with a ton of clout, I'm completely comfortable with that.

If Elway develops a track record of alienating quality coaches, then I'll revisit this comment.

It has the makings of a debacle, but that is yet to be determined. Have to listen to his press conference today and try to read between the lines. He may avoid it all together and talk about the future.

[BroncoJoe]

It has the makings of a debacle, but that is yet to be determined. Have to listen to his press conference today and try to read between the lines. He may avoid it all together and talk about the future.

I can't wait for the press conference.

[Lancane]

As I said in another thread, what is suspect to me is the tidbits being said as smaller parts of the whole thing. Jay Glazier's statement, that an undisclosed NFL Executive believed that Fox would be available come Monday, and I'd bet money that it was either Ernie Accorsi or Ryan Pace, one an advisor in Chicago and the other the new GM where now Fox has become the front runner for the Head Coach position? According to other small tidbits, Elway and Fox have not been seeing eye to eye, but Elway was trying to mend the relationship with Fox and really believed that he would return, he did not expect to be having to search for another Head Coach and staff. As for Gase and Del Rio, according to another source, Fox had been at odds with both Coordinators in recent weeks as well. But what really gets to me is that this is almost identical to what happened in Carolina, he was told to do something by the Owners and the General Manager, he was perturbed about it and as the season went on he continually butted heads with the Execs and others on the coaching staff which led to him being fired.

I never really liked the Fox hire myself, but as some have said - 'Where there is smoke there is fire', this seems to be his M.O. to get away from a situation or to move on and that makes even the little bit of respect I had for him vanish.

[BroncoJoe]

As I said in another thread, what is suspect to me is the tidbits being said as smaller parts of the whole thing. Jay Glazier's statement, that an undisclosed NFL Executive believed that Fox would be available come Monday, and I'd bet money that it was either Ernie Accorsi or Ryan Pace, one an advisor in Chicago and the other the new GM where now Fox has become the front runner for the Head Coach position? According to other small tidbits, Elway and Fox have not been seeing eye to eye, but Elway was trying to mend the relationship with Fox and really believed that he would return, he did not expect to be having to search for another Head Coach and staff. As for Gase and Del Rio, according to another source, Fox had been at odds with both Coordinators in recent weeks as well. But what really gets to me is that this is almost identical to what happened in Carolina, he was told to do something by the Owners and the General Manager, he was perturbed about it and as the season went on he continually butted heads with the Execs and others on the coaching staff which led to him being fired.

I never really liked the Fox hire myself, but as some have said - 'Where there is smoke there is fire', this seems to be his M.O. to get away from a situation or to move on and that makes even the little bit of respect I had for him vanish.

Good to see you back posting.

[Lancane]

Good to see you back posting.

Thanks Joe, I found myself being very pessimistic this season about the coaches and the team, and not really wanting to be a downer on the boards so I constantly read the messages but posted rarely - good to be back.

[underrated29]

Thanks Joe, I found myself being very pessimistic this season about the coaches and the team, and not really wanting to be a downer on the boards so I constantly read the messages but posted rarely - good to be back.



It's draft time now my friend, we need you. Ok, I need you.....

[Lancane]

It's draft time now my friend, we need you. Ok, I need you.....

You know me all too well, come hell or high water I'll be here for the off-season and draft!!! :beer:

[BigDaddyBronco]

Elway will be easier to judge on the next coaching hire, drafts, FA aquisitions, etc.

We could keep a running tab, but Fox was the right hire at the time, bringing in Manning was great, drafts so-so. Getting Pot Roast great, Talib over DRC - push, Ware meh. He needs more time to evaluate, but he has been pretty good. I would like us to do better in the draft however.

[Lancane]

Elway will be easier to judge on the next coaching hire, drafts, FA aquisitions, etc.

We could keep a running tab, but Fox was the right hire at the time, bringing in Manning was great, drafts so-so. Getting Pot Roast great, Talib over DRC - push, Ware meh. He needs more time to evaluate, but he has been pretty good. I would like us to do better in the draft however.

We have to remember that he's learning as he goes along, it's rare that an Executive with so little experience does so well with so little, but he has done well enough that he is considered by many as one of the better General Managers in the business right now. I agree with you about the draft, we need a strong draft, especially given that this year seems to be deep in some others and very, very shallow at some key positions.

[MOtorboat]

Let Fox have Cutler.

Good riddance. I feel dirty for defending him now.

[VonDoom]

I'm not sure I'm ready to call this a debacle yet. If Elway didn't like his coaching staff then it wouldn't be surprising if he made their lives miserable. If John Fox got his feelings hurt along the way because he didn't have enough power, or wanted to go spread his wings away from two HOFers with a ton of clout, I'm completely comfortable with that.

If Elway develops a track record of alienating quality coaches, then I'll revisit this comment.

I agree with this. Elway is aggressive because he wants to win at all costs. I love that about him, but I could see it becoming a problem in the future if we burn through head coaches and/or QB's.

That being said, I have no issue with how this particular situation went down from Elway's perspective. A lot of GM's might have been content with the great regular season record and not too shabby HC. But Elway saw that it wasn't working out. Plus, Gase and Del Rio were probably leaving anyway. So he could have kept Fox and put in two new coordinators, or just blow it up and start over. Didn't he fire all of his friends when he owned the arena league team? Then they won the championship the next year? I'll certainly give him the benefit of the doubt in this case.

[VonDoom]

Jeff Darlington ‏@JeffDarlington 17m17 minutes ago

Sources: Adam Gase currently meeting with 49ers officials in Denver. Expected to be marathon. Elway plans to meet w/ Gase when it concludes.

Jeff Darlington ‏@JeffDarlington 6m6 minutes ago

Elway does not expect to meet with Gase until this evening as Broncos anticipate Gase’s meeting with 49ers could last as many as 8 hours.

[Northman]

I'm not sure I'm ready to call this a debacle yet. If Elway didn't like his coaching staff then it wouldn't be surprising if he made their lives miserable. If John Fox got his feelings hurt along the way because he didn't have enough power, or wanted to go spread his wings away from two HOFers with a ton of clout, I'm completely comfortable with that.

If Elway develops a track record of alienating quality coaches, then I'll revisit this comment.

43-8

NONE of that had anything to do with Elway. If Fox got butthurt because John was putting pressure on him to do better than thats on Fox.

[Northman]

Thanks Joe, I found myself being very pessimistic this season about the coaches and the team, and not really wanting to be a downer on the boards so I constantly read the messages but posted rarely - good to be back.

FFFFFFFFFF that. I would of taken you under my wing you know that. Debbie does Downers 2!

[Northman]

It's draft time now my friend, we need you. Ok, I need you.....

You got that right. UR has horrible mock drafts. He needs all the help he can get Lan. :D

[VonDoom]

FFFFFFFFFF that. I would of taken you under my wing you know that. Debbie does Downers 2!

You know, I got on your case for being such a downer, but damn if you weren't right about the Bengals game and then about this Colts game. I wish that weren't the case, but you were spot on.

[VonDoom]

Who wants to put some money down?

MileHighReport ‏@MileHighReport 16m16 minutes ago

Odds from @BovadaLV for #Broncos next head coach: Gary Kubiak 5/2 Mike Shanahan 7/2 Dan Quinn 4/1 Adam Gase 4/1 Del Rio 6/1 Todd Bowles 7/1

[Buff]

LOL @ 7/2 odds for Shanny. I'd put those more at like 100:1. Del Rio at like 1000:1.

[MOtorboat]

I would like Bowles.

[BroncoJoe]

I would like Bowles.

He's a Rooney candidate.

:couch:

Kidding.

[silkamilkamonico]

Who wants to put some money down?

MileHighReport ‏@MileHighReport 16m16 minutes ago

Odds from @BovadaLV for #Broncos next head coach: Gary Kubiak 5/2 Mike Shanahan 7/2 Dan Quinn 4/1 Adam Gase 4/1 Del Rio 6/1 Todd Bowles 7/1

Bowles or QUinn. Everyone else on that list - no thanks and no thanks.

[Buff]

I would like Bowles.

I'm always weary of the guys who have been on the interview circuit for a while without getting a head job. Bowles is like the Brian Shaw candidate for me.

[chazoe60]

My list in order is
Todd Bowels
Gary Kubiak
Dan Quinn

The latter two could flip flop.

[Jsteve01]

It's draft time now my friend, we need you. Ok, I need you.....

You got that right. UR has horrible mock drafts. He needs all the help he can get Lan. :D. Ouch

[VonDoom]

LOL @ 7/2 odds for Shanny. I'd put those more at like 100:1. Del Rio at like 1000:1.

Seriously. Del Rio's name hasn't been brought up at all, unless it's the Raiders job.

[Jsteve01]

It's draft time now my friend, we need you. Ok, I need you.....

You got that right. UR has horrible mock drafts. He needs all the help he can get Lan. :D. And I agree completely. If Fox couldn't stand the heat after getting embarssed in the Super Bowl then get to steppin. I'm sure from Elways perspective it really stung because we weren't as overmatched as he was in his super bowl losses. In fact we were favored. He still says his worst moment during his career as a player was the loss to Jacksonville. Baltimore and Indy had to feel similar.

[Jsteve01]

I would like Bowles.

I'm always weary of the guys who have been on the interview circuit for a while without getting a head job. Bowles is like the Brian Shaw candidate for me. or Leslie frazier

[Northman]

Lol, this is why i love my wife. Ive been telling her some of the things you guys have posted about this situation and she is getting all fired up about it. This was her recent email to me, F ing love it.



You know what. I hope Peyton heals his leg comes back next year and wins the Superbowl to shove it up Foxes ass. You know Peyton is a leader but he is also a team player and he was probably doing exacltly what the coaching staff asked of him

[BroncoJoe]

Lol, this is why i love my wife. Ive been telling her some of the things you guys have posted about this situation and she is getting all fired up about it. This was her recent email to me, F ing love it.

You married out of your league.

[Northman]

You married out of your league.

No question about it.

[Krugan]

Lol, this is why i love my wife. Ive been telling her some of the things you guys have posted about this situation and she is getting all fired up about it. This was her recent email to me, F ing love it.

Hi five for your wife :)

[Joel]

No, it's fair and comparable because the discussion is Fox BEFORE he came to Denver, not after he got here. And it's plenty comparable to Delhomme, Clausen and whatever crappy quarterback Fox ran out there in Carolina.
That's not what I'm discussing: I couldn't care less what Fox did outside Denver except insofar as it indicates what he could do in Denver. He didn't have Clausen nor even Delhomme in Denver: He had PFM, and couldn't do any better than he did with Delhomme. The last time Kubiak had a QB as good as Manning it was Elway, and they won a repeat championship. HUGE difference.

[Poet]

Kubiak did it as an OC. Doesn't that matter?

[dogfish]

Lol, this is why i love my wife. Ive been telling her some of the things you guys have posted about this situation and she is getting all fired up about it. This was her recent email to me, F ing love it.

maybe you should just post her opinions and comments from now on. . . ;)




If Fox couldn't stand the heat after getting embarssed in the Super Bowl then get to steppin.

lmao. . . damn right, steve!

[VonDoom]

Schaefer reporting that we requested permission to meet with Lions DC Teryl Austin

[Northman]

maybe you should just post her opinions and comments from now on. . . ;)



Damn Dog, that hurts....

[underrated29]

Schaefer reporting that we requested permission to meet with Lions DC Teryl Austin



If he brings Suh with him.....I can get down with that

[dogfish]

Schaefer reporting that we requested permission to meet with Lions DC Teryl Austin

like. . .



Damn Dog, that hurts....

:heh:

[Joel]

Kubiak did it as an OC. Doesn't that matter?
A little, but not much unless one expects/demands a HC actively and meticulously run offense AND defense, in which case they should call Belicheat or hang themselves, because there's no other option. As OC, Kubiaks role in gameplanning and creating, practicing and executing Elways and Davis' plays was a great as or greater than Shannys.

For the sake of argument (and contrary to popular belief) Kubiak's had nothing BUT success on BOTH teams where he's been HC or OC since Denver; Shanny went to Washington and failed specatularly. Was that all Snyder, or was Kubiak a bigger part of Shannys success in Denver than most people suspect? Kubiak won his franchises first playoff game with a 3rd string rookie 7th round QB making his 7th career start; Shanny had the #3 overall pick under center and stiill couldn't win his only playoff game since Denver.

Offensively, we know what we get with Kubes, and there's a ton of things to like; defensively, HE knows enough to hire a good DC (e.g. Phillips) and trust him to do his job well enough they don't BOTH get fired (e.g. the string of flop DCs Shanny brought to Denver for the half of football that baffles him.)

[Joel]

If he brings Suh with him.....I can get down with that
HELL, no. Those guys are as dirty as Maddens Raiders, except they can't even win playoff games THAT way. Last thing I want is a team full of Romanowskis; this isn't the UFC. "... and Suh seals Denvers first Foxborough win with his decapitation of Brady." Sorry, don't want it that badly nor that way.

[Poet]

Joel he had a lot of late season collapses during his tenure as HC. I remember pointing it out constantly here and taking heat because I was 'bashing' a Bronco's favorite son. Kubiak finally broke through and had the huge honor of cutting his teeth against the Marvin Lewis led Bengals. Twice. He then fell apart at the seems with a team that was deemed to be a SB contender. That is a spectacular level of failure. I think he's a splendid coordinator. He had a big hand in Schaub turning into a good QB, and his scheme helped make Foster what he is today. I mean that scheme was so good that it makes Ben Tate tolerable on the field.

But he is not a real head coach.

[Joel]

How's a bum HC make a "SB contender" (and there was only one season ANYONE considered them that) with the likes of Matt Schaub and Ben Tate? His teams fell apart because that's what Schaub does; with a QB even as good as Flacco he wins another Ring instead of being two-and-through against one of the past decades three most successful teams. Again: Rookie 7th round 3rd string QB in his 8th career start on the road against the #2 seeded Ravens elite D, and the Ravens only beat them by a TD? THAT'S "falling apart" and "failure"? Then what's Bruce Arians, who went one-and-done at home?

It took three years to stomp out the 5-year-old 2-14 flaming bag of crap he inherited; three more years and he was gone, so how many late season ANYTHINGS were possible? We already know what happened when Schaub went on IR halfway through 2011 and Leinart joined him 1½ games later, and when Schaub imploded and Foster and Cushing went on IR in 2013; is ONE 12-4 season in 2012 "lots" of late season collapses? Good grief, Jerry and Jimmy needed The Trade to turn a 1-15 team into SB Champs in JUST 4 years, even with the aid of an existing rosters talent to trade instead of an expansion team.

How people can claim Kubes built a dog expansion teams UDFAs, 7th rounders and Plummer/Orton hybrids into a "SB contender" yet call that failure I don't know.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Didn't the Texans go 14-2 one year and lose in the playoffs because their QB went down?

[Poet]

Last year people looked at the Bengals as SB contenders with Marvin ******* Lewis. They were looked at as SB contenders the year they beat Cincy in round two of the playoffs, and coming into the year where Schaub had that meltdown they were called SB contenders, so we don't agree on that stance.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/KubiGa0.htm

That's his track record - a lot of mediocre seasons when people kept believing that he was the guy to get them over the hump: the opportunity to get in as a W.C. was there for quite some time. Then they regress to 6-10. They shoot to 10-6, are a good team, the next year people are picking them as SB contenders, the year after that they call them SB contenders and then the 11 losses under Kubiak occur. How bad was Kubiak that year? Well he took largely the same team to a winning record. Keep in mind that that Kubiak had plenty of time to turn that franchise around, he had what, seven seasons, right? Seven seasons with nice rosters and he could only muster up beating up on my shitty Bengals.

Oh boy.

[Joel]

Didn't the Texans go 14-2 one year and lose in the playoffs because their QB went down?
No, two different seasons (and they were never 14-2, SB contenders or not.)

In 2011 their starting AND backup QB went to IR by Week 8 of 2011, so they finished with TJ Yates, a rookie 7th rounder Kubes really liked, only managing 10-6 to claim the franchises first division title ever, then its first playoff win (JJ Watts coming out party, which may have left King wishing they could trade QBs at the half. :tongue:) Next week they lost 20-13 with Yates @#2 seeded Baltimore, who then lost the AFCCG by a missed FG @NE. Really embarrassing for a team down to its rookie 7th round #3 QB, but I bet the Cards would take that finish with that adversity without a second thought.

In 2012 they went 12-4, but "faded down the stretch" when they only needed to win 2 of their last 4 to clinch homefield. Of course, 2 of those 4 were against Lucks wildcard-bound Colts, and another was @NE, the defending Conference Champs, but, those are easy games a real contender should win every time. I mean, MANNINGS stacked team's only done it TWICE in the last SIX tries (and NEVER on the road) but, y'know, Kubes totally chumped out there.

2013 was supposed to be their year, but Schaub started the season by breaking the NFL record for most consecutive games with a pick-six, Arian Foster, Owen Daniels and Brian Cushing all went on IR, and all of that was Kubes' fault, so he was out of a job after a 2-14 finish.

I just can't see much of that as "Kubiaks failure" after he turned an UDFA into the NFL Rushing Champ and a 7th round rookie QB into a playoff winner. Houston didn't must magically and mysteriously bounce back this year to finish 9-7 and only miss the playoffs because of Baltimores huge comeback against Cleveland Week 17: They're still a good team; they just had a TON of bad luck last year.

[Poet]

Oh boy. We'll agree to disagree... :tsk:

[chazoe60]

The #1 thing I want from a new coaching staff is toughness. I complained about it many times this season, I didn't think this team was mentally tough at all. I want a team that is in your face and exuberant about playing hard nosed football. If that comes from the HC fine, if not from him then from the coordinators.

[silkamilkamonico]

Has Kubiack won a big game yet? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Joel]

Last year people looked at the Bengals as SB contenders with Marvin ******* Lewis. They were looked at as SB contenders the year they beat Cincy in round two of the playoffs, and coming into the year where Schaub had that meltdown they were called SB contenders, so we don't agree on that stance.
They beat ya'll in the WILDCARD game two years running; I don't think Cincy's reached the 2nd round since their last SB loss to SF. Since we DO agree Schaub melted down in 2013 (and 3 of their best players had season-ending injuries) I don't see that as Kubiak falling apart down the stretch. He coach Foster, Daniels and Cushing to get hurt or something? He didn't make the great Matt Schaub a failure, he made the awful Matt Schaub "tolerable" (as you rightly said of Ben Tate) for a couple seasons before reality resumed, much as with Plummer.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/KubiGa0.htm


That's his track record - a lot of mediocre seasons when people kept believing that he was the guy to get them over the hump: the opportunity to get in as a W.C. was there for quite some time. Then they regress to 6-10. They shoot to 10-6, are a good team, the next year people are picking them as SB contenders, the year after that they call them SB contenders and then the 11 losses under Kubiak occur. How bad was Kubiak that year? Well he took largely the same team to a winning record. Keep in mind that that Kubiak had plenty of time to turn that franchise around, he had what, seven seasons, right? Seven seasons with nice rosters and he could only muster up beating up on my shitty Bengals.

Oh boy.
He had six seasons, after inheriting a 5-year-old 2-14 team. Let's look at his record:

6-10 (4 win improvement)
8-8 (first non-losing season in franchise history)
8-8
9-7 (first winning season in franchise history)
10-6 (first division title and playoff win in franchise history, starting a 3rd string 7th round rookie QB the whole last half of the season)
12-4 (two-and-through again, and everyone here laughed when I called them SB contenders)
2-14 (Schaub commits career suicide, Foster, Daniels and Cushing go on IR.)

They didn't "shoot" to 10-6, they shot to 6-10 his first year and steadily improved EVERY year thereafter till injuries and Schaub being Schaub caused ONE horrific season. Again, the '89 Cowboys are still considered miraculous for turning 1-15 into a SB winner in just FOUR years, even with the aid of The Trade and an existing franchises roster providing anything TO trade—but Kubiak's a failure for not doing the same thing in just two more seasons? TWO years is the difference between "quickest biggest turnaround EVER" and "total failure"? Pretty slim difference between best and worst, doncha think?

[chazoe60]

Has Kubiack won a big game yet? Inquiring minds would like to know.

He's won a couple playoff games.

[Joel]

Has Kubiack won a big game yet? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Are playoff games big? He won two with an expansion team before ONE year of freakishly bad luck got him fired. He won as many playoff games with the Texans as Fox did with the Broncos, and I think we can all agree which team had a LOT more talent. If we can get to the SB even ONCE with Fox, we can win it with Kubes, especially if he brings Dennison to run the offense and Phillips to run the D.

[chazoe60]

Are playoff games big? He won two with an expansion team before ONE year of freakishly bad luck got him fired. He won as many playoff games with the Texans as Fox did with the Broncos, and I think we can all agree which team had a LOT more talent. If we can get to the SB even ONCE with Fox, we can win it with Kubes, especially if he brings Dennison to run the offense and Phillips to run the D.
Not exactly true. Fox won 3 playoff games with the Broncos to Kubiak's 2 wins with Houston

[silkamilkamonico]

He's won a couple playoff games.


How come he didn't sustain? From an outsider it looks like he went 2-11 with an arguably better team than Bill O Brien went 9-7 with.

I tell ya, to rabbit trail a little, Bill O'Brien looks to be a hell of a coach. Houston is going places with that guy.

[silkamilkamonico]

Are playoff games big? He won two with an expansion team before ONE year of freakishly bad luck got him fired. He won as many playoff games with the Texans as Fox did with the Broncos, and I think we can all agree which team had a LOT more talent. If we can get to the SB even ONCE with Fox, we can win it with Kubes, especially if he brings Dennison to run the offense and Phillips to run the D.

1 year of freakichly bad luck? It looks like he had 2 years og good luck after 5 years of very mediocre luck. I don't know, I don't really see much from Kubiack that makes me think Championship.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It should also be heavily considered that Kubes gave a game ball to Andre Johnson after he smacked Finnegan around.

[tomjonesrocks]

The Texans really didn't want to fire Kubiak. They held out as long as they possibly could.

I really like Kubes for obvious reasons but his record despite his strengths reeks of underachievement. Some of those teams were absolutely loaded.

Not totally unlike what we've gone through. That said I don't think Fox gave us much. He was a great hire after McDumbshit but was out of his depth once the team got really good.

I yelled for his head last season in post SB mourning. Wish they'd fired him then after his sleazeball BS.

[aberdien]

I'm not sure why Joel keeps harping on them being an expansion team. They weren't, and even so the Jags had plenty of success early on.

Kubiak has potential to be better than Fox. I'd like to think he's at least as good as him though.

[chazoe60]

The thing about Kubiak is that I don't think Manning can run his offense. Obviously Kubes could alter it for Manning for a season but that would just delay Kubes in doing what he really wants to. I do think Kubiak's offense is perfect for a young guy with mobility like Oz. I also think CJ would tear shit up in that offense. The key to a Kubiak hire would be the DC decision

[Ziggy]

The thing about Kubiak is that I don't think Manning can run his offense. Obviously Kubes could alter it for Manning for a season but that would just delay Kubes in doing what he really wants to. I do think Kubiak's offense is perfect for a young guy with mobility like Oz. I also think CJ would tear shit up in that offense. The key to a Kubiak hire would be the DC decision

Manning is perfect for the west coast offense. Short quick passes based on quick reads. Its what Manning does best. Its why Montana won 5 championships with a weak arm and no mobility.

[chazoe60]

Manning is perfect for the west coast offense. Short quick passes based on quick reads. Its what Manning does best. Its why Montana won 5 championships with a weak arm and no mobility.
I'm referring more to the rollouts, bootlegs, and zone running game. Even just getting the handoffs to the RB on the stretch plays could be a challenge for Manning next season

[tomjonesrocks]

I'm not sure why Joel keeps harping on them being an expansion team. They weren't, and even so the Jags had plenty of success early on. Kubiak has potential to be better than Fox. I'd like to think he's at least as good as him though.

I agree. I commented in another thread Kubiak has underachieved just like Fox did. He didn't take great talent and make them more. He made them less.

But you'd think Elway and Kubiak would have history and chemistry. I don't see it as a downgrade.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Manning is perfect for the west coast offense. Short quick passes based on quick reads. Its what Manning does best. Its why Montana won 5 championships with a weak arm and no mobility.

Montana did have a weak arm, but he was fairly mobile. He didn't have 4.5 speed, but he was no Manning or Brady. Athletically he was very similar to Plummer.

[Simple Jaded]

The Texans really didn't want to fire Kubiak. They held out as long as they possibly could.

I really like Kubes for obvious reasons but his record despite his strengths reeks of underachievement. Some of those teams were absolutely loaded.

Not totally unlike what we've gone through. That said I don't think Fox gave us much. He was a great hire after McDumbshit but was out of his depth once the team got really good.

I yelled for his head last season in post SB mourning. Wish they'd fired him then after his sleazeball BS.

Wait? Fox is a sleazeBall?

[Simple Jaded]

HELL, no. Those guys are as dirty as Maddens Raiders, except they can't even win playoff games THAT way. Last thing I want is a team full of Romanowskis; this isn't the UFC. "... and Suh seals Denvers first Foxborough win with his decapitation of Brady." Sorry, don't want it that badly nor that way.

I used to think signing Suh was a pipe dream, now it's gonna be my new obsession.

[Lancane]

Wait? Fox is a sleazeBall?

He's referring to the stink that is coming out in tidbits from Jay Glazier (John Fox's Friend) and others. Pretty much Glazier is saying this is a long-time coming, even before the last Super Bowl (which I have to question given the extension Elway gave Fox). But we've also learned that before the Divisional Game Fox had reached out to teams about interest should he be available and that Chicago was, a (unknown) NFL Exec. Sunday night reported he expected Fox to be available as soon as Monday for a Head Coaching position (my money is on it being Ernie Accorsi), according to Chicago Media Fox and Chicago have been interested in each other before the Divisional Game. Glazier is stating that nothing short of a Super Bowl would have mended what went wrong between Fox and Elway, though Ian Rappaport reported that John Elway had met with Fox (several times) and was trying continuously to smooth over things and expected him back. Glazier is reporting the opposite on some issues, according to those at the NFLN Camp Fox has strained relationships within the Organization, according to Fox Sports and Glazier it was Elway.

The thing that makes the crap stick more to Fox is it is very similar to what he (supposedly) pulled in Carolina with the staff and front office - while most of us at the time believed that it was likely due to the owners and executives - now I have to wonder if we were wrong and it was Fox, coincidence is one thing....to close for me to think this lies at Elway's feet as Fox Sports and Jay Glazier are trying to allude to.

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe the entire coaching staff were sick of Manning and Elway both. It'll all come out one day.


I think in time, somebody will come out with all the smut and details. it will all start leaking soon.
What are you talking about?

[Lancane]

What are you talking about?

Jaded, read my post above and you'll see what everyone is talking about.

[Simple Jaded]

So Glazier is defending a HC that's looking for another job while his team is getting ready for the PO's?

**** dude, I had surgery a week ago and now I feel like I woke up in an alternate reality.

[Lancane]

According to Glazier who was on Florio's radio show earlier, he said Fox to Chicago was pretty much a done deal - that tells me all I need to know about where his loyalty and attention was.

[7DnBrnc53]

HELL, no. Those guys are as dirty as Maddens Raiders, except they can't even win playoff games THAT way. Last thing I want is a team full of Romanowskis; this isn't the UFC. "... and Suh seals Denvers first Foxborough win with his decapitation of Brady." Sorry, don't want it that badly nor that way.

I don't want to see anyone get hurt or die out there. However, if Suh ended Brady's career with a knee shot, it would be justice. The fraud got a career because of Ernie Adams' cheating system, and he knows it. That's why he accepts less than what it seems like he should be making.

[BroncoJoe]

But you'd think Elway and Kubiak would have history and chemistry. I don't see it as a downgrade.

I think this is nearly as important as Kubiak's coaching record. He and Elway would immediately be on the same page.

[TXBRONC]

I agree. I commented in another thread Kubiak has underachieved just like Fox did. He didn't take great talent and make them more. He made them less.

But you'd think Elway and Kubiak would have history and chemistry. I don't see it as a downgrade.

If Kubiak is a retread then so was Shanahan. As far as Kubiak underachieving there is always more to it than just the record.

That aside I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about chemistry. Give most head coaches a franchise quarterback and there is good chance he'll have success.

[Northman]

I think this is nearly as important as Kubiak's coaching record. He and Elway would immediately be on the same page.

That was basically how i saw it.

[Bronco9798]

Elway and Kubiak are the perfect match. Let's get it done!!!! :-)

[VonDoom]

I think this is nearly as important as Kubiak's coaching record. He and Elway would immediately be on the same page.

Plus if Quinn takes the Atlanta job, as is rumored, we're running out of viable candidates anyway. It might end up being Kubiak almost by default. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but the way this played out, all the other teams got a chance to get interviews going before the playoffs started and we're trying to catch up.

[NightTrainLayne]

I don't know why, but this thought just donned on me regarding Fox's motivation for wanting out:

Fox knew probably better than anyone that Gase and Del Rio were on their respective way out to Head Coaching jobs. On it's own, the expectations, and "friction" with Elway were probably surviveable (I refer to Fox's 3-year extension last April. Either could have put that off if they truly weren't getting along). However, when Fox looks around his meeting room and sees that he's going to have to go out and hire another DC and another OC, and wonder if Manning will be back around next season. Well, from Fox's perspective, it would sure look like he was starting all over again to some degree.

If he wasn't completely happy here, AND he's going to have to start all over again hiring coordinators, and potentially working with a green QB, then it makes sense that it might be more attractive to do all of that at a new place. I.E. it wouldn't take much disgruntlement, to make somewhere else look even marginally more attractive. Add on top of that, that Fox is kind of in a no-win situation. Had he won a SB, Manning would get all the credit. When he loses, it's all on his "bad coaching" and conservative style etc.

[chazoe60]

Everyone on the radio seems to be insinuating that Elway made this monumental error but wasn't it Fox wanting out as much as us wanting him gone? I think most of the national media sees this as a firing. I honestly see it as a mutual parting of the ways. Am I seeing this wrong?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Everyone on the radio seems to be insinuating that Elway made this monumental error but wasn't it Fox wanting out as much as us wanting him gone? I think most of the national media sees this as a firing. I honestly see it as a mutual parting of the ways. Am I seeing this wrong?

I see it as Fox growing tired of the relationship and working his way out of it. Elway suggested that initially Fox was the one who kept bringing up timing.

[underrated29]

I don't know why, but this thought just donned on me regarding Fox's motivation for wanting out:

Fox knew probably better than anyone that Gase and Del Rio were on their respective way out to Head Coaching jobs. On it's own, the expectations, and "friction" with Elway were probably surviveable (I refer to Fox's 3-year extension last April. Either could have put that off if they truly weren't getting along). However, when Fox looks around his meeting room and sees that he's going to have to go out and hire another DC and another OC, and wonder if Manning will be back around next season. Well, from Fox's perspective, it would sure look like he was starting all over again to some degree.

If he wasn't completely happy here, AND he's going to have to start all over again hiring coordinators, and potentially working with a green QB, then it makes sense that it might be more attractive to do all of that at a new place. I.E. it wouldn't take much disgruntlement, to make somewhere else look even marginally more attractive. Add on top of that, that Fox is kind of in a no-win situation. Had he won a SB, Manning would get all the credit. When he loses, it's all on his "bad coaching" and conservative style etc.




Eh, could be. It makes sense but Im not sure.
To me, if I was a HC, I would like to show my coaching skills. I would like to think I would be a good enough coach that I can take a talented team and coach up a green Qb or OC or DC. Not have to move from team to team that already has a QB and OC etc in place. I think that would reflect rather poorly on my coaching abilities.

[Bronco9798]

I don't know why, but this thought just donned on me regarding Fox's motivation for wanting out:

Fox knew probably better than anyone that Gase and Del Rio were on their respective way out to Head Coaching jobs. On it's own, the expectations, and "friction" with Elway were probably surviveable (I refer to Fox's 3-year extension last April. Either could have put that off if they truly weren't getting along). However, when Fox looks around his meeting room and sees that he's going to have to go out and hire another DC and another OC, and wonder if Manning will be back around next season. Well, from Fox's perspective, it would sure look like he was starting all over again to some degree.

If he wasn't completely happy here, AND he's going to have to start all over again hiring coordinators, and potentially working with a green QB, then it makes sense that it might be more attractive to do all of that at a new place. I.E. it wouldn't take much disgruntlement, to make somewhere else look even marginally more attractive. Add on top of that, that Fox is kind of in a no-win situation. Had he won a SB, Manning would get all the credit. When he loses, it's all on his "bad coaching" and conservative style etc.

You can overcome coordinators leaving. That's not an issue in my opinion. Fox wanted out, him and Elway saw things differently. He booked. It can be simple like that.

[chazoe60]

Dan Patrick whom I normally really like is kinda pissing me off this morning. He is really pushing this idea that Elway fired Fox and that this is in no way a mutual parting. He is just ignoring all of Fox's doings in this. I think he is painting a very inaccurate picture of what happened.

[Ravage!!!]

Dan Patrick whom I normally really like is kinda pissing me off this morning. He is really pushing this idea that Elway fired Fox and that this is in no way a mutual parting. He is just ignoring all of Fox's doings in this. I think he is painting a very inaccurate picture of what happened.

I don't think its a "blame." I think the Dan just feels that Elway fired Fox, no matter what seems to be the hub-bub around it. He's simply seeing our 3rd loss with a VERY apable team, and can see why Elway might make that fire....even as hard as it is to believe. I can't say for a fact that Elway didn't fire Fox.

[underrated29]

HELL, no. Those guys are as dirty as Maddens Raiders, except they can't even win playoff games THAT way. Last thing I want is a team full of Romanowskis; this isn't the UFC. "... and Suh seals Denvers first Foxborough win with his decapitation of Brady." Sorry, don't want it that badly nor that way.



Suh is exactly what our team needs. Ive been hoping for one for years and I thought TJ Ward was it, but he hasnt been or Del Rio just hasnt let him be it. Suh will be no matter what. They guy will bring some fire to our Club. I will take his Dirty ways and 15 yard penalties all day long as they come with fire that will jump start the defense. Plus, we desperately desperately desperately need a guy to collapse the Mother ******* Pocket!!!! I am so sick of seeing Von, Doom, Ware get to the QB only to have him step up into the pocket and burn us. Collapse the pocket and the QB is DEAD!

[Ravage!!!]

Nope. Not Suh. He's not a leader, and certainly isn't a motivator. He's just a psychopath that uses football. He can be dominating, but he's not the end all. He's trash, and would rather have another team worry about him.

[underrated29]

Nope. Not Suh. He's not a leader, and certainly isn't a motivator. He's just a psychopath that uses football. He can be dominating, but he's not the end all. He's trash, and would rather have another team worry about him.


A leader, no. But we have leaders on Defense. We have harris, ware, TJ. We need someone to show some damn spirit! Seeing Suh Slam brady or phyllis to the ground. HARD. is definitely a motivator to me. He is not the end all, but there are few Elite DTs in the game. Ours is leaving and Suh is coming available. Not saying we will go after him, I doubt we do, but shit I would LOVE that guy here!!!

[PatriotsGuy]

A leader, no. But we have leaders on Defense. We have harris, ware, TJ. We need someone to show some damn spirit! Seeing Suh Slam brady or phyllis to the ground. HARD. is definitely a motivator to me. He is not the end all, but there are few Elite DTs in the game. Ours is leaving and Suh is coming available. Not saying we will go after him, I doubt we do, but shit I would LOVE that guy here!!!

He's a really dirty player

[Northman]

Suh sure did a great job on stopping Dallas on 4th and 6.....err wait.

[underrated29]

Suh sure did a great job on stopping Dallas on 4th and 6.....err wait.



Von Miller and Demarcus Ware sure did a great job pressuring andrew luck the entire game.......err wait.

[PatriotsGuy]

Suh sure did a great job on stopping Dallas on 4th and 6.....err wait.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/30/why-detroit-lions-ndamukong-suh-is-ranked-as-footballs-dirtiest-player/

[Ravage!!!]

A leader, no. But we have leaders on Defense. We have harris, ware, TJ. We need someone to show some damn spirit! Seeing Suh Slam brady or phyllis to the ground. HARD. is definitely a motivator to me. He is not the end all, but there are few Elite DTs in the game. Ours is leaving and Suh is coming available. Not saying we will go after him, I doubt we do, but shit I would LOVE that guy here!!!

You don't know that ours is leaving. Think Knighton would rather play for Oakland purely because of a coaching change? What if we have Wad Phillips in Denver as our DC, you don't think he would love to play for a Wade PHillips defense? Suh does nothing but cause problems, imo.

[VonDoom]

Suh sure did a great job on stopping Dallas on 4th and 6.....err wait.

The play where the NFL apologized for missing a blatant hold?

Look, we know that happens all the time (watch Miller on most plays) and he IS dirty (no question about that). But to pick out that play of all plays to knock Suh is odd. Dude was a beast in that game.

[TXBRONC]

Suh is exactly what our team needs. Ive been hoping for one for years and I thought TJ Ward was it, but he hasnt been or Del Rio just hasnt let him be it. Suh will be no matter what. They guy will bring some fire to our Club. I will take his Dirty ways and 15 yard penalties all day long as they come with fire that will jump start the defense. Plus, we desperately desperately desperately need a guy to collapse the Mother ******* Pocket!!!! I am so sick of seeing Von, Doom, Ware get to the QB only to have him step up into the pocket and burn us. Collapse the pocket and the QB is DEAD!

No he's not what this team needs. People complained about Malik Jackson being good for boneheaded play per game. However if Suh does it should be overlooked. Penalties on defense still keep opposition drives alive and still have the potential to cost you games. There is no way he has a chance to collapse if he's suspended for being an idiot. No thanks.

[Lancane]

People need to realize there is a way to play dirty without looking dirty and the best of the best have it down. They'll still get caught now and then, but most times the ref has no clue what he's doing.

[underrated29]

No he's not what this team needs. People complained about Malik Jackson being good for boneheaded play per game. However if Suh does it should be overlooked. Penalties on defense still keep opposition drives alive and still have the potential to cost you games. There is no way he has a chance to collapse if he's suspended for being an idiot. No thanks.



While I overall agree with you tx, malik Jackson and Ndamakong Suh are not even close to being in the same league. Not even the same galaxy!

This last year Suh had 1.5 sacks less then Demarcus Ware and he is a DT! he also had 3 passes defensed and like 60 tackles. More tackles then Demarcus. I do not know how many 15 yard penalties Suh had this year, but I bet it was probably less than 5. Ill take those 5 and his production all day long. I know he is dirty, but he also brings a lot of things that our team does not have with him too. He wont be a Bronco, we all know this, but.......if he was. OOooooooooh YEeeaaaaaahhhh!!!

[TXBRONC]

While I overall agree with you tx, malik Jackson and Ndamakong Suh are not even close to being in the same league. Not even the same galaxy!

This last year Suh had 1.5 sacks less then Demarcus Ware and he is a DT! he also had 3 passes defensed and like 60 tackles. More tackles then Demarcus. I do not know how many 15 yard penalties Suh had this year, but I bet it was probably less than 5. Ill take those 5 and his production all day long. I know he is dirty, but he also brings a lot of things that our team does not have with him too. He wont be a Bronco, we all know this, but.......if he was. OOooooooooh YEeeaaaaaahhhh!!!
I really don't care what numbers you can sight penalties are penalties no matter who commits them. If he or someone commits a penalty that costs a team game all those great stats don't mean jack.

[NightTrainLayne]

Not sure how this became a FA DT signing thread. ..

Back to topic, I don't understand what national media folks expected Elway to do. Once that Glazer story hit the day of the game, Elway was dealing with someone who didn't want to be there. Whether or not it was ultimately Elway's fault that Fox didn't want to be there, he didn't want to be there. At that point, the only choice is to "mutually part ways".

[Bronco9798]

Not sure how this became a FA DT signing thread. ..

Back to topic, I don't understand what national media folks expected Elway to do. Once that Glazer story hit the day of the game, Elway was dealing with someone who didn't want to be there. Whether or not it was ultimately Elway's fault that Fox didn't want to be there, he didn't want to be there. At that point, the only choice is to "mutually part ways".

Some people on here believe Elway has egg on his face today. I totally disagree with that.

[wayninja]

Not sure how this became a FA DT signing thread. ..

Back to topic, I don't understand what national media folks expected Elway to do. Once that Glazer story hit the day of the game, Elway was dealing with someone who didn't want to be there. Whether or not it was ultimately Elway's fault that Fox didn't want to be there, he didn't want to be there. At that point, the only choice is to "mutually part ways".

It's interesting to me that there hasn't been more attention paid to the timing of that Glazer report. I've seen several articles flat out citing that "fox was fired" by Elway. It sure didn't appear to play out like that to me. Again, if anything, it definitely looks like Fox basically quit.

[TXBRONC]

Some people on here believe Elway has egg on his face today. I totally disagree with that.

I don't see how he has egg on his face from this.

[Joel]

1 year of freakichly bad luck? It looks like he had 2 years og good luck after 5 years of very mediocre luck. I don't know, I don't really see much from Kubiack that makes me think Championship.
Playing the last HALF of the season with a 3rd string rookie 7th round QB, then starting him a playoff game is "good luck"? Don't tell Arizona that, but Kubes managed to WIN a playoff game like that; if that's "continued failure with a stacked team," what does it make Arians?

Before that, I don't think immediately taking a 2-14 expansion dumpster fire to 6-10, then 8-8 (first time the franchise didn't have a losing season,) 8-8, 9-7 (franchises first winning season,) 10-6 (franchises first playoff, division title and playoff win) then 12-4 is "luck." It's steady improvement for 5 solid seasons; he won more games EACH year but one (and didn't regress then, just didn't advance.) After his rookie HC season, the ONLY time he had a losing season was when Schaub went full blown Plummer while pretty much the entire offense was on IR, but that ONE season cost Kubes his job.

ONE year's continued failure, but five straight seasons of improvement culminating in the first and second playoff wins for a team less than a decade old is "luck." With it's #1 AND #2 QB on IR half the season; lucky, alright, but not in a good way. What do people want from Kubiak; the only people who've ever made an expansion team into a perennial SB contender in under a decade are Tom Landry and Bud Grant. A huge expansion draft got Carolina and Jax withing a game of a SB their second year, but then they fell apart again, and the previous 4 expansion teams had already sucked annually for 20-30 years by then.

[Slick]

Some people on here believe Elway has egg on his face today. I totally disagree with that.

I know I said I could see how around the league it could be seen by some that Elway has egg on his face because he was too classy to throw Fox under the bus for leaking his name to Glazer.

I'm not sure how else Elway was suposed to handle that without outing Fox and showing that his team was in disarray even before they stepped on the field against the Colts.

I agree with you, I don't think John does, but I could see why outsiders would think so.

[Slick]

Playing the last HALF of the season with a 3rd string rookie 7th round QB, then starting him a playoff game is "good luck"? Don't tell Arizona that, but Kubes managed to WIN a playoff game like that; if that's "continued failure with a stacked team," what does it make Arians?

Before that, I don't think immediately taking a 2-14 expansion dumpster fire to 6-10, then 8-8 (first time the franchise didn't have a losing season,) 8-8, 9-7 (franchises first winning season,) 10-6 (franchises first playoff, division title and playoff win) then 12-4 is "luck." It's steady improvement for 5 solid seasons; he won more games EACH year but one (and didn't regress then, just didn't advance.) After his rookie HC season, the ONLY time he had a losing season was when Schaub went full blown Plummer while pretty much the entire offense was on IR, but that ONE season cost Kubes his job.

ONE year's continued failure, but five straight seasons of improvement culminating in the first and second playoff wins for a team less than a decade old is "luck." With it's #1 AND #2 QB on IR half the season; lucky, alright, but not in a good way. What do people want from Kubiak; the only people who've ever made an expansion team into a perennial SB contender in under a decade are Tom Landry and Bud Grant. A huge expansion draft got Carolina and Jax withing a game of a SB their second year, but then they fell apart again, and the previous 4 expansion teams had already sucked annually for 20-30 years by then.

Just don't get mad at John for not hiring Kubiak if Gary doesn't even want to be a head coach after the heart incident he had on the sidelines during a game in Houston.

[Bronco9798]

I know I said I could see how around the league it could be seen by some that Elway has egg on his face because he was too classy to throw Fox under the bus for leaking his name to Glazer.

I'm not sure how else Elway was suposed to handle that without outing Fox and showing that his team was in disarray even before they stepped on the field against the Colts.

I agree with you, I don't think John does, but I could see why outsiders would think so.


I wasn't referring to you. :-) Some people want us to believe that. There will always be haters, I just have a hard it's at the level some think.

[TXBRONC]

Just don't get mad at John for not hiring Kubiak if Gary doesn't even want to be a head coach after the heart incident he had on the sidelines during a game in Houston.

While I'm sure being a head coach is more stressful than being a coordinator it still very stressful. If his health is at risk he not in a very good position for taking care of it. It's not far gone conclusion that Elway will hire Kubiak but it does seem logical that he would interview him. Even though it's logical it doesn't mean it will take place.

[Lancane]

I wasn't referring to you. :-) Some people want us to believe that. There will always be haters, I just have a hard it's at the level some think.

Of course not, as fans we are so enthralled and emboldened with passion for our favorite team, etc. that we can not dare see it fairly. Hell, we had fans up till a year ago who still defended McDaniels and what he did, they can not believe their favorite sports franchise is capable of a mistake. That is why there are two main groups, the Homers and Realists, Homers are all for anything and can not believe the worst or what people see as the worst in the organization; realists see it from different aspects and state how they see it from all sides. But of the Homers there are those so stricken that nothing can shatter their admiration for the organization. And that is not just the Broncos, hell that is any sports team.

[Ravage!!!]

Of course not, as fans we are so enthralled and emboldened with passion for our favorite team, etc. that we can not dare see it fairly. Hell, we had fans up till a year ago who still defended McDaniels and what he did, they can not believe their favorite sports franchise is capable of a mistake. That is why there are two main groups, the Homers and Realists, Homers are all for anything and can not believe the worst or what people see as the worst in the organization; realists see it from different aspects and state how they see it from all sides. But of the Homers there are those so stricken that nothing can shatter their admiration for the organization. And that is not just the Broncos, hell that is any sports team.

Well.. MANY times pessimists refer to themselves as "realists."

[Lancane]

Well.. MANY times pessimists refer to themselves as "realists."

Nice one Rav...so if I am a pessimist that makes you?

[TXBRONC]

Nice one Rav...so if I am a pessimist that makes you?

He's a one of a kind.

[Bronco9798]

Of course not, as fans we are so enthralled and emboldened with passion for our favorite team, etc. that we can not dare see it fairly. Hell, we had fans up till a year ago who still defended McDaniels and what he did, they can not believe their favorite sports franchise is capable of a mistake. That is why there are two main groups, the Homers and Realists, Homers are all for anything and can not believe the worst or what people see as the worst in the organization; realists see it from different aspects and state how they see it from all sides. But of the Homers there are those so stricken that nothing can shatter their admiration for the organization. And that is not just the Broncos, hell that is any sports team.

I hear you, I'm a realist since about 1976 as much as I am a homer, I am also a realist. I've seen a lot through the years to have a little knowledge of the Broncos and media and all that. I'm not a newcomer with squinty eyes. I know the difference. I'm a homer with a whole lot of being a realist. Anyway, you have your beliefs. I have mine and that's what this board is for. It's all good. I just don't think Elway, the Broncos, and the coaching position is as bad as you make it out to be. You're a lot more pessimistic than you are an optimist. That's cool.

[TXBRONC]

Of course not, as fans we are so enthralled and emboldened with passion for our favorite team, etc. that we can not dare see it fairly. Hell, we had fans up till a year ago who still defended McDaniels and what he did, they can not believe their favorite sports franchise is capable of a mistake. That is why there are two main groups, the Homers and Realists, Homers are all for anything and can not believe the worst or what people see as the worst in the organization; realists see it from different aspects and state how they see it from all sides. But of the Homers there are those so stricken that nothing can shatter their admiration for the organization. And that is not just the Broncos, hell that is any sports team.

Actually Lan I've read posts recently that still defend him.

[Lancane]

Actually Lan I've read posts recently that still defend him.

Ughhh... :tsk:

[Ravage!!!]

Nice one Rav...so if I am a pessimist that makes you?

Heh.. well, I wasn't calling you are pessimist, perse. I'm just saying that I hear that word a lot around here.. "realist." Many confuse the idea of saying negative things about situations as being "realistic."

I guess I should have said " You missed one category to go along with the other two you mentioned. "

[Northman]

Actually Lan I've read posts recently that still defend him.

Wave and Mosapha are still very big on Micky Dee.