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View Full Version : Why Fox and Del Rio Should Be Fired



WARHORSE
01-11-2015, 11:46 PM
This is a stacked team that underperformed big time. We have so much more talent than Indy and yet look what happens. I was ok taking the ball out of the hands of Manning after St. Louis, but that was only to get the run game and the defense going. I thought FOR SURE they would unleash Peyton and let him go back to checking into good plays once the playoffs started.

Nope.

That was the WORST GAMEPLAN ive seen for a playoff game since Dan Reeves was here. SO FRUSTRATING!!!!

Offensively we should have gone back to what puts the most points on the board.

Fox is ultimately responsible, and I have no doubt the uber conservative gameplan had his stamp of approval.

Pitiful.

Pitiful pitiful pitiful pitiful pitiful!

Del Rio should be fired for showing the world how to get NO PRODUCTION OFF OF TWO STUD DEFENSIVE PASS RUSHERS!!! How about some thoughtfully planned stunting? How about using an unbalanced line? How about not pushing four straight up the field for 17 straight games? JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!

Our defensive line rushed four and pushed straight up field for probably 95 percent of the plays. OMG HOW EASY IT WAS FOR THEM TO BLOCK US!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fire Del Rio.

And have Fox carrying his bags.


Good riddance.

Jsteve01
01-11-2015, 11:49 PM
This is a stacked team that underperformed big time. We have so much more talent than Indy and yet look what happens. I was ok taking the ball out of the hands of Manning after St. Louis, but that was only to get the run game and the defense going. I thought FOR SURE they would unleash Peyton and let him go back to checking into good plays once the playoffs started.

Nope.

That was the WORST GAMEPLAN ive seen for a playoff game since Dan Reeves was here. SO FRUSTRATING!!!!

Offensively we should have gone back to what puts the most points on the board.

Fox is ultimately responsible, and I have no doubt the uber conservative gameplan had his stamp of approval.

Pitiful.

Pitiful pitiful pitiful pitiful pitiful!

Del Rio should be fired for showing the world how to get NO PRODUCTION OFF OF TWO STUD DEFENSIVE PASS RUSHERS!!! How about some thoughtfully planned stunting? How about using an unbalanced line? How about not pushing four straight up the field for 17 straight games? JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!

Our defensive line rushed four and pushed straight up field for probably 95 percent of the plays. OMG HOW EASY IT WAS FOR THEM TO BLOCK US!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fire Del Rio.

And have Fox carrying his bags.


Good riddance. agree. I'd love to see some compromise between the always blitzing Dennis Allen and the vanilla Del rio

DenBronx
01-12-2015, 12:37 AM
Isnt there already threads about this? Why not just add your opinion in those?

FanInAZ
01-12-2015, 02:26 AM
If we fire Del Rio, we'll probably have to pay him a severance package. If someone hires him as a HC, we won't. So at least wait until we find out which, if either, of our coordinators get hired as HCs before firing them.

Tebowtime2011
01-12-2015, 02:30 AM
If we fire Del Rio, we'll probably have to pay him a severance package. If someone hires him as a HC, we won't. So at least wait until we find out which, if either, of our coordinators get hired as HCs before firing them. But that will leave us with minimum choices once everyone else has been hired.

Simple Jaded
01-12-2015, 02:34 AM
Fox goes to the top of the available HC list if he's fired.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
01-12-2015, 02:51 AM
It's always feast or famine. Never a happy medium on either side of the ball.

And the lack of in game adjustments are killer, plain and simple.

Joel
01-12-2015, 03:21 AM
agree. I'd love to see some compromise between the always blitzing Dennis Allen and the vanilla Del rio
VERY good point. I still feel like teams who live by the blitz die by the blitz, especially against top QBs, because it just means someone's open, which good QBs see pre-snap, and it makes them smile. Punctuated blitzes at the right time (no, not at their 20 inside 2:00; you need a stop, not a sack, so don't leave people uncovered) can be VERY effective though, and "always ANYTHING is always bad," because predictable, whether it's always run/pass/blitz/don't blitz or anything else.

Joel
01-12-2015, 05:57 AM
Fox goes to the top of the available HC list if he's fired.
Great: Fingers crossed he winds up in Chokeland; he'd be a perfect fit.

OrangeFanatic
01-12-2015, 06:31 AM
Great: Fingers crossed he winds up in Chokeland; he'd be a perfect fit.

It's too bad that Denver is the official chokeland these days...

As to the OP keeps Studddsszz, otherwise the entire staff needs to go.

Dreadnought
01-12-2015, 09:18 AM
Del Rio is likely to get a HC gig somewhere, and Fox is HC for 2015 and probably longer. The problem in the end was Manning.

Geez, get a freakin' grip, people. It sucks. We had a good team. The coaching staff made solid adjustments throughout the season, but the real Capitol T Truth here is that Peyton Manning lost his mojo sometime in mid Autumn. Cold weather, wear n' tear, advancing age, immobility, choose yer poison, but there it was. The successful switch to a run heavy offense was a (correct) response to Peyton's air show no longer working like it once did, and to (successfully) fix some O-line issues. Eventually though the Broncos could only cover for a suddenly old QB with paint and glue for so long.

Its time to move on, but not from John Fox. That's crazy talk.

7DnBrnc53
01-12-2015, 09:37 AM
Great: Fingers crossed he winds up in Chokeland; he'd be a perfect fit.

Del Rio may have another interview there: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/raiders-expected-to-seek-second-interview-with-jack-del-rio

As for Fox, I heard that his end of the season press conference was cancelled. That may mean that he is done here. And, he should be. Him and Del Rio are holding this team back. I was thinking that, if the Broncos win a SB, they would do it in spite of the coaches. That's not a good sign.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 09:50 AM
Two years ago I made a comment that the team was undisciplined and that the coaching staff should be accountable for that. This comment was met with much ridicule, but since people have come around to facts, I'll repeat that comment. I know games arent won on paper, but when you have a roster as talented as the one Elway has put together over the last few years, there really is no excuse for the performances we've seen the last 3 years. The team has been unprepared, unmotivated and undisciplined throughout this process. We've won a lot of regular season games and a couple of playoff games against teams beat up by injuries, but we've lost more than we've won in the post-season and the reasons fall on the coaches, IMO. It's not their job to make a block or catch a pass, but it is their job to have a team ready. In the games we've lost and in a many of our wins, the thing that has been most noticeable to me has been uninspired play. That is a product of either unpreparedness or disregard or both. What Elway needs to figure out is what the root of all that is and make changes. Whether it's coaches or players.

G_Money
01-12-2015, 10:09 AM
The only reason I can think of to move on from fox is if you have someone better in mind. I guess if John can talk Kubes into recanting and taking the job, and we can get jim Schwartz out of Buffalo, that might work. Our OL is not suited to kubiak's offense, but we're planning on reworking it anyway.

But that would mean Manning retiring, I'm sure. If we think he's going that way, maybe we do pull the plug on Fox, especially if we have to keep replacing his coordinators.

But just pulling the plug on 12 win seasons to be reactionary seems abrupt. If Manning is done, then wholesale changes may be in order. We're a top 4 team in the AFC again next year in the regular season if Manning is back. You gonna hand that to a McDaniels type? You wanna recycle Atlanta's HC, or Chicago's?

Maybe there's a better fit for the future if Manning is hanging up his spurs. Otherwise, you'd be better off adding Schwartz in place of Del Rio and taking another swing with what we've got, IMO.

Working with friends is dangerous. Unless John wants to overhaul the whole thing, or has to because Oz plays quarterback like the Scarecrow(without a brain) and Manning has had enough, I just don't see it.

I guess the Shanny firing and aftermath still sticks with me... and Shanny wasn't winning 12 games a year, either. He actually deserved to go. But our plan to replace him was poorly thought out.

Any plan to replace Fox should be more than a **** reaction to a terrible performance by a HOF quarterback.

We'll see how considered Elway feels like being, and how much of a stomach Manning has for another turn around for dance floor.

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2015, 10:20 AM
It seems to me that Coach Fox is a great Head Coach for the usual regular season. He can prepare a team to ride through a regular season schedule adeptly, and be quite successful.

However, he doesn't seem, to me, to be a coach that can pull out a great game plan for "big games". He relies on the same formula, and consistency week in and week out. That leads to wins in the regular season, and he's delivered some very good regular seasons. But he doesn't seem to change the formula at all for the playoffs, or even "big games" within the regular season.

Of course, what the hell do I know. That's just a feeling based on watching from my couch. But to me it's the difference between Dan Reeves or Marty SChottenheimer and Mike Shanahan. Some guys can lead a team through a regular season successfully, but can't take it up a notch for the playoffs. Others, like Shanny, live for the "big game" gameplan.

Simple Jaded
01-12-2015, 10:20 AM
I don't want Kubiak if it means OL that we're used to seeing with Kubes/Shanatan. They're doing just fine in B-More with maulers and Kubes system.

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2015, 10:26 AM
The only reason I can think of to move on from fox is if you have someone better in mind. I guess if John can talk Kubes into recanting and taking the job, and we can get jim Schwartz out of Buffalo, that might work. Our OL is not suited to kubiak's offense, but we're planning on reworking it anyway.

But that would mean Manning retiring, I'm sure. If we think he's going that way, maybe we do pull the plug on Fox, especially if we have to keep replacing his coordinators.

But just pulling the plug on 12 win seasons to be reactionary seems abrupt. If Manning is done, then wholesale changes may be in order. We're a top 4 team in the AFC again next year in the regular season if Manning is back. You gonna hand that to a McDaniels type? You wanna recycle Atlanta's HC, or Chicago's?

Maybe there's a better fit for the future if Manning is hanging up his spurs. Otherwise, you'd be better off adding Schwartz in place of Del Rio and taking another swing with what we've got, IMO.

Working with friends is dangerous. Unless John wants to overhaul the whole thing, or has to because Oz plays quarterback like the Scarecrow(without a brain) and Manning has had enough, I just don't see it.

I guess the Shanny firing and aftermath still sticks with me... and Shanny wasn't winning 12 games a year, either. He actually deserved to go. But our plan to replace him was poorly thought out.

Any plan to replace Fox should be more than a **** reaction to a terrible performance by a HOF quarterback.

We'll see how considered Elway feels like being, and how much of a stomach Manning has for another turn around for dance floor.

Right on the money again G.

Although Fox may not be the best "big game" coach, until you really are 100% sure that you can line up something better, you gotta ride the horse that brought you to the dance every year. The Chargers were silly to let go of Schottenheimer when they did, for virtually the same reason Fox is being put in jeopardy now. Fox can't go out and play for Manning.

turftoad
01-12-2015, 10:26 AM
Two years ago I made a comment that the team was undisciplined and that the coaching staff should be accountable for that. This comment was met with much ridicule, but since people have come around to facts, I'll repeat that comment. I know games arent won on paper, but when you have a roster as talented as the one Elway has put together over the last few years, there really is no excuse for the performances we've seen the last 3 years. The team has been unprepared, unmotivated and undisciplined throughout this process. We've won a lot of regular season games and a couple of playoff games against teams beat up by injuries, but we've lost more than we've won in the post-season and the reasons fall on the coaches, IMO. It's not their job to make a block or catch a pass, but it is their job to have a team ready. In the games we've lost and in a many of our wins, the thing that has been most noticeable to me has been uninspired play. That is a product of either unpreparedness or disregard or both. What Elway needs to figure out is what the root of all that is and make changes. Whether it's coaches or players.

I agree. We were soft. There was no "Eye of the Tiger" what so ever.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 10:28 AM
The only reason I can think of to move on from fox is if you have someone better in mind. I guess if John can talk Kubes into recanting and taking the job, and we can get jim Schwartz out of Buffalo, that might work. Our OL is not suited to kubiak's offense, but we're planning on reworking it anyway.

But that would mean Manning retiring, I'm sure. If we think he's going that way, maybe we do pull the plug on Fox, especially if we have to keep replacing his coordinators.

But just pulling the plug on 12 win seasons to be reactionary seems abrupt. If Manning is done, then wholesale changes may be in order. We're a top 4 team in the AFC again next year in the regular season if Manning is back. You gonna hand that to a McDaniels type? You wanna recycle Atlanta's HC, or Chicago's?

Maybe there's a better fit for the future if Manning is hanging up his spurs. Otherwise, you'd be better off adding Schwartz in place of Del Rio and taking another swing with what we've got, IMO.

Working with friends is dangerous. Unless John wants to overhaul the whole thing, or has to because Oz plays quarterback like the Scarecrow(without a brain) and Manning has had enough, I just don't see it.

I guess the Shanny firing and aftermath still sticks with me... and Shanny wasn't winning 12 games a year, either. He actually deserved to go. But our plan to replace him was poorly thought out.

Any plan to replace Fox should be more than a **** reaction to a terrible performance by a HOF quarterback.

We'll see how considered Elway feels like being, and how much of a stomach Manning has for another turn around for dance floor.

My take is the organization has to figure out if we won all these regular season games because of Fox...or in spite of Fox. I'm not a rocket scientist, but if you put me in charge of a team of the greatest rocket scientists in the world, even I would look good on some level. But if a situation came down to my ability to something that I might just not be the right guy for...I'm bound to screw it up.

That being said, I think even a handful of first year coaches could have lead this roster to the records it produced. What the team needs...based on the performances that count...is not a "friend", but a motivator. Someone who is going to get on their ass when they falter. John Fox just doesnt seem like the guy for the job. Many of us didnt think it then...and many more dont think it now. He's probably the type of coach that a guy like Manning prefers, but not necessarily the type the whole team needs. Not every player is going to bring the tenacity, heart and desire that guys like Anderson, Bruton, Sanders, etc seem to bring to every game and it's up to a coaching staff to motivate that type of a mentality.

Dreadnought
01-12-2015, 10:33 AM
Right on the money again G.

Although Fox may not be the best "big game" coach, until you really are 100% sure that you can line up something better, you gotta ride the horse that brought you to the dance every year. The Chargers were silly to let go of Schottenheimer when they did, for virtually the same reason Fox is being put in jeopardy now. Fox can't go out and play for Manning.

Fox beat the Steelers with Tebow and came within an Ace of winning a SB with Jake DelHomme. I don't think the problem is him, frankly.

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2015, 10:35 AM
Fox beat the Steelers with Tebow and came within an Ace of winning a SB with Jake DelHomme. I don't think the problem is him, frankly.

Well, I have it on good authority from a coaching expert that he is "dumb".

Simple Jaded
01-12-2015, 10:35 AM
If Denver loses both coordinators that could effect Fox's security. Although I could see a Fox/Allen/New OC being appealing to Denver.

broken12
01-12-2015, 10:36 AM
Was being talked about on the fan how fox and Glazier are friends and if that came from anyone it was fox.....

Simple Jaded
01-12-2015, 10:41 AM
I think I'd make mine Todd Bowles if Denver goes in a new direction.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 10:41 AM
Right on the money again G.

Although Fox may not be the best "big game" coach, until you really are 100% sure that you can line up something better, you gotta ride the horse that brought you to the dance every year. The Chargers were silly to let go of Schottenheimer when they did, for virtually the same reason Fox is being put in jeopardy now. Fox can't go out and play for Manning.

No. But he can prepare and motivate the team for big games. Seems to me he's failed to do that. Outside of the playoffs, the ten games we've lost in the regular season the last 3 years have been to teams with a combined winning percentage of 78%. We've lost to NE 3 times and only one of the losses was to a team with a losing record. Basically, the ability to feast on a weaker division and pick up a few more wins against bad teams throughout the season is why Fox's job should be saved? This team cant win tough games against tough opponents. Period.

At some point that falls on the coaches.

underrated29
01-12-2015, 10:41 AM
Two years ago I made a comment that the team was undisciplined and that the coaching staff should be accountable for that. This comment was met with much ridicule, but since people have come around to facts, I'll repeat that comment. I know games arent won on paper, but when you have a roster as talented as the one Elway has put together over the last few years, there really is no excuse for the performances we've seen the last 3 years. The team has been unprepared, unmotivated and undisciplined throughout this process. We've won a lot of regular season games and a couple of playoff games against teams beat up by injuries, but we've lost more than we've won in the post-season and the reasons fall on the coaches, IMO. It's not their job to make a block or catch a pass, but it is their job to have a team ready. In the games we've lost and in a many of our wins, the thing that has been most noticeable to me has been uninspired play. That is a product of either unpreparedness or disregard or both. What Elway needs to figure out is what the root of all that is and make changes. Whether it's coaches or players.



Careful you might be mistaken for a good Ol pat on thy back.

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2015, 10:47 AM
No. But he can prepare and motivate the team for big games. Seems to me he's failed to do that. Outside of the playoffs, the ten games we've lost in the regular season the last 3 years have been to teams with a combined winning percentage of 78%. We've lost to NE 3 times and only one of the losses was to a team with a losing record. Basically, the ability to feast on a weaker division and pick up a few more wins against bad teams throughout the season is why Fox's job should be saved? This team cant win tough games against tough opponents. Period.

At some point that falls on the coaches.

I do think I'd be much more concerned if we were losing to bad teams. I mean. .. if you're going to lose a few games a year, and those losses come to teams with winning percentages of 78%. .. you're doing something right.

I'm not campaigning for Fox. I just don't think it's easily done to guarantee his replacement will do even as good of a job.

It is very distressing to me that the story from Glazer came out before the game, and that the likelihood is that Fox fed him this story. Is he really concerned, or was he trying to motivate his team in some backwards kind of way. .. . whatever he was trying to do, it failed.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 10:55 AM
I do think I'd be much more concerned if we were losing to bad teams. I mean. .. if you're going to lose a few games a year, and those losses come to teams with winning percentages of 78%. .. you're doing something right.

I'm not campaigning for Fox. I just don't think it's easily done to guarantee his replacement will do even as good of a job.

It is very distressing to me that the story from Glazer came out before the game, and that the likelihood is that Fox fed him this story. Is he really concerned, or was he trying to motivate his team in some backwards kind of way. .. . whatever he was trying to do, it failed.

Are you? Can we name more than 2-3 "big" games that Fox has lead this team to victory in over the last few years? With arguably the best roster in the NFL, he has successfully won games against lesser teams and lost to better teams on a regular basis. To me, that says something about how he prepares a team for tough games.

G_Money
01-12-2015, 10:55 AM
It seems to me that Coach Fox is a great Head Coach for the usual regular season. He can prepare a team to ride through a regular season schedule adeptly, and be quite successful.

However, he doesn't seem, to me, to be a coach that can pull out a great game plan for "big games". He relies on the same formula, and consistency week in and week out. That leads to wins in the regular season, and he's delivered some very good regular seasons. But he doesn't seem to change the formula at all for the playoffs, or even "big games" within the regular season.

Of course, what the hell do I know. That's just a feeling based on watching from my couch. But to me it's the difference between Dan Reeves or Marty SChottenheimer and Mike Shanahan. Some guys can lead a team through a regular season successfully, but can't take it up a notch for the playoffs. Others, like Shanny, live for the "big game" gameplan.

Vanilla can be deadly if you execute perfectly. Under Shanahan we only ran like 6 plays. Changed the formations, switched motion, had some bootlegs... but really, it was all the same basic thing.

We just executed it perfectly. Offense is timing, as they say, and defense is messing up timing.

Our problem is that we allow other teams to get us out of rhythm, but we rarely get them out of rhythm WITH OUR DEFENSE. We rely on our offensive pressure to dictate the other team's response. That's okay when you're running up the score on Oakland or relying on second half adjustments to carry the day, but if you can't adjust or pummel a weaker foe, it can get you into trouble.

The championship Broncos teams had an offense that would pressure you too, make you gamble because they kept going up and down the field, but it was also an offense that could salt you away by running the clock rather than getting conservative. It was an aggressive, crushing running attack that would grind you to dust after getting a lead, and let our defense take advantage of your panic in trying to catch up.

We don't do that stuff now. If Peyton can throw us to a big lead we can probably hang on, but we don't salt games away. Our halftime adjustments at the end of the year were completely ineffective, because the game is in the hands of one man and if he is faltering we are all faltering.

We won a Super Bowl with Elway throwing for a hundred and fifty yards. If Manning throws for 150, or even 211, are we winning? Not likely.

So if our offense is in the hands of one man - a HOF player who is growing more inconsistent - then the defense has to do more. We still might have won yesterday's game if we'd gotten that punt turnover on the 30 and put it in the end zone. We aren't a terrible team, and we have a lot of talent. But it's not talent that is being used to perfection, and I do believe that's on the coaches. Del Rio has a ceiling as DC and it looks like we've hit it. Fox has a ceiling as a motivator and we're at that too. And I don't feel like talking about Gase because I don't think he does more coaching than a half-empty Wheaties box.

Which means a coaching change would likely be necessary, because we're also about as talented as we're gonna get. If Manning is the OC, and he comes back, then I would swap DCs to a guy who is aggressive to the point of paranoia (like Schwartz) and can motivate the hell outta his guys. If Manning is gone, then change it all up, sure.

But don't take some random kid and hand him the reins to a talented club, please. And that limits our options. As much as Fox would be the best coach on the market at that point, we would also be the best job - a talented playoff team that just lost its HOF QB but is otherwise basically intact. You'd want an offensive mind at that point to shape the future of that side of the ball, and a DC who can utilize the talent.

I'm not against going that way - but it's basically up to Elway and Manning. I'm not against saddling up one more time either with Fox, in the right scenario.

Cuz HOF quarterbacks don't show up all that often. 80% of Manning is still better than all but a handful of QBs in this league. But what's 60%? At some point he has to retire, because like Old Bret Favre he just doesn't have quite enough magic to pull off his old bag of tricks.

Keep Manning and Fox, or ditch em both. But don't keep one and lose the other. I can't see that working. Just can't.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 10:58 AM
Careful you might be mistaken for a good Ol pat on thy back.

In all honesty...I dont have a problem when people throw out the "I was right" comments. When they are first made, they are typically met with such hostility and criticism that they tend to warrant a middle finger laced "I told you so".

So, if I make a comment that comes across as patting myself on the back for such things as supporting Von or CJ or criticizing Fox, all before it was cool to do so...I'll go on not caring what people think

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2015, 10:59 AM
Are you? Can we name more than 2-3 "big" games that Fox has lead this team to victory in over the last few years? With arguably the best roster in the NFL, he has successfully won games against lesser teams and lost to better teams on a regular basis. To me, that says something about how he prepares a team for tough games.

2-3. Okay.

The Steelers playoff game at home with Tebow. The AFC Championship game last season against the Patriots. The divisional round game last season against the Chargers who had beaten us soundly at home just a month prior.

Again, I'm not really on the other side of the fence from you on this issue. I just worry that the probability of getting a worse head coach is greater than finding a better head coach than the guy who has won 4 straight division championships.

tomjonesrocks
01-12-2015, 11:00 AM
I agree in principle with the "fire" crowd.

Another heavily-favored one-and-done at home in the playoffs in 3 years.

I don't see how you can stand pat coaching-wise.

BroncoJoe
01-12-2015, 11:04 AM
In all honesty...I dont have a problem when people throw out the "I was right" comments. When they are first made, they are typically met with such hostility and criticism that they tend to warrant a middle finger laced "I told you so".

So, if I make a comment that comes across as patting myself on the back for such things as supporting Von or CJ or criticizing Fox, all before it was cool to do so...I'll go on not caring what people think

You deserve credit for your CJ comments, which were 100% positive and consistent dating back a long ways!

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 11:04 AM
2-3. Okay.

The Steelers playoff game at home with Tebow. The AFC Championship game last season against the Patriots. The divisional round game last season against the Chargers who had beaten us soundly at home just a month prior.

Again, I'm not really on the other side of the fence from you on this issue. I just worry that the probability of getting a worse head coach is greater than finding a better head coach than the guy who has won 4 straight division championships.

And my argument is that the team as it stands on paper won the division despite Fox. In 2011, we needed Oakland to choke to win it, but I think the argument could be made that even McDaniels could have won the last 3 with the roster we had. He might have even been able to do something he was capable of doing, but Fox isnt...beating NE in the regular season when they are healthy.

G_Money
01-12-2015, 11:05 AM
Ain't nuthin' wrong with calling your shots, Chaz. It's not like you're disparaging the guy's family or something. There's a lot of evidence to say Fox can't close the deal, and that better teams take advantage of him. His lack of team preparation before the Super Bowl last year, especially the crowd noise thing, bordered on criminal. I might have fired him just for that.

But we didn't, and here we are. If Fox goes, it's not just for this playoff game or this year. It's for failures in every year to have the most talented team prepared to also be the best team. We shouldn't have lost to Baltimore, we shouldn't have folded like a lawn chair for Seattle, and we shouldn't have coughed it up to an inferior Colts team. If the goal is to win championships, and we have the talent to do so, some of that burden has to fall on your coach. The rest would go to your best players not making plays. Only one team wins it every year - guys don't get fired just for being second-best.

Getting booed off your home field for a terrible performance - again - when you had 2 weeks to get ready, might be enough to tip the scales. Because like you said, it's not a one-time thing, it's a pattern.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 11:05 AM
You deserve credit for your CJ comments, which were 100% positive and consistent dating back a long ways!

I want really looking for the pat on the back. Just responding to a comment...but thanks!

silkamilkamonico
01-12-2015, 11:06 AM
Fox's record with this group in the playoffs is 2-3. I don't see what argument he has to make, unless you're into regular season records.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 11:07 AM
Ain't nuthin' wrong with calling your shots, Chaz. It's not like you're disparaging the guy's family or something. There's a lot of evidence to say Fox can't close the deal, and that better teams take advantage of him. His lack of team preparation before the Super Bowl last year, especially the crowd noise thing, bordered on criminal. I might have fired him just for that.

But we didn't, and here we are. If Fox goes, it's not just for this playoff game or this year. It's for failures in every year to have the most talented team prepared to also be the best team. We shouldn't have lost to Baltimore, we shouldn't have folded like a lawn chair for Seattle, and we shouldn't have coughed it up to an inferior Colts team. If the goal is to win championships, and we have the talent to do so, some of that burden has to fall on your coach. The rest would go to your best players not making plays. Only one team wins it every year - guys don't get fired just for being second-best.

Getting booed off your home field for a terrible performance - again - when you had 2 weeks to get ready, might be enough to tip the scales. Because like you said, it's not a one-time thing, it's a pattern.

Precisely my point. In the NFL, you typically have short windows to accomplish great things. I cant think of a coach that was handed a better opportunity than Fox was in a very long time. He had 3 years to do something with it and he failed each time.

silkamilkamonico
01-12-2015, 11:08 AM
2-3. Okay.

The Steelers playoff game at home with Tebow. The AFC Championship game last season against the Patriots. The divisional round game last season against the Chargers who had beaten us soundly at home just a month prior.

Again, I'm not really on the other side of the fence from you on this issue. I just worry that the probability of getting a worse head coach is greater than finding a better head coach than the guy who has won 4 straight division championships.

I don't disagree with you, but I think if you want to win for SuperBowls you need to give another direction a try. If you want to win out of fear of not being able to get past the "as good as it gets" notion, you stay with Fox, knowig you will probably never win a SuperBowl but maybe won't fall back. I just don't think John Elway is going to be satisfied with second best.

G_Money
01-12-2015, 11:08 AM
2-3. Okay.

The Steelers playoff game at home with Tebow. The AFC Championship game last season against the Patriots. The divisional round game last season against the Chargers who had beaten us soundly at home just a month prior.

Again, I'm not really on the other side of the fence from you on this issue. I just worry that the probability of getting a worse head coach is greater than finding a better head coach than the guy who has won 4 straight division championships.

This is my problem. Sure, I can change coaches. Do I want to hire Adam Gase? Trestman? Who's out there that I like better? It's a pretty shallow coaching pool right now.

I'm not looking for a guy who can do what Fox has done. I want someone who can do better. And maybe that's Fox himself, because if you're giving me him or one of the schmoes Oakland is interviewing, I'll take our schmoe. Thanks anyway. Unless it's for a wholesale overhaul.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 11:17 AM
This is my problem. Sure, I can change coaches. Do I want to hire Adam Gase? Trestman? Who's out there that I like better? It's a pretty shallow coaching pool right now.

I'm not looking for a guy who can do what Fox has done. I want someone who can do better. And maybe that's Fox himself, because if you're giving me him or one of the schmoes Oakland is interviewing, I'll take our schmoe. Thanks anyway. Unless it's for a wholesale overhaul.

Outside of Harbaugh and Tomlin, it's pretty rare that coaches win a Super Bowl in their first gig...and good reasons could be found for why those two did it. So, I'm ok with looking at guys that may not have had the best journey in their first go-round.

BroncoJoe
01-12-2015, 12:14 PM
I think it'd be fun to have Gruden as our HC.

:)

MOtorboat
01-12-2015, 12:28 PM
I think it'd be fun to have Gruden as our HC.

:)

Denver will have to find a fullback to run Spider Y-2 Banana.

jhildebrand
01-12-2015, 01:30 PM
Name one time in the playoffs where the Broncos, under Fox, did something that made you say 'Wow! Where did that come from?' I can't. I can't think of a gameplan in the PO's under Fox where we saw wrinkles and any innovation. Meanwhile Belichick is being Belichick and always breaking something else out. This time it was knowing the rules enough to handle Baltimore with pass eligible players and when to declare. Now I am not necessarily looking for that from Fox BUT I would have liked to see something different.

Finally, if we are to believe the Manning tear-gate, then why didn't Fox have the gumption to get in Manning's ear and tell him to stop the audibles to pass and run the play called? :confused: It was so easy coming into this game that all Denver had to do was run the ball all game. Indy would have given up by the end of the 3rd Q. By game's end they had only run 20 times. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

BigDaddyBronco
01-12-2015, 01:55 PM
Right on the money again G.

Although Fox may not be the best "big game" coach, until you really are 100% sure that you can line up something better, you gotta ride the horse that brought you to the dance every year. The Chargers were silly to let go of Schottenheimer when they did, for virtually the same reason Fox is being put in jeopardy now. Fox can't go out and play for Manning.

You know, Fox did take the Broncos to the playoffs with Tebow and with a great game plan beat the Steelers. Maybe that was all McCoy, but it worked. Maybe having Manning makes you not want to overthink things.

BigDaddyBronco
01-12-2015, 01:56 PM
Name one time in the playoffs where the Broncos, under Fox, did something that made you say 'Wow! Where did that come from?' I can't. I can't think of a gameplan in the PO's under Fox where we saw wrinkles and any innovation. Meanwhile Belichick is being Belichick and always breaking something else out. This time it was knowing the rules enough to handle Baltimore with pass eligible players and when to declare. Now I am not necessarily looking for that from Fox BUT I would have liked to see something different.

Finally, if we are to believe the Manning tear-gate, then why didn't Fox have the gumption to get in Manning's ear and tell him to stop the audibles to pass and run the play called? :confused: It was so easy coming into this game that all Denver had to do was run the ball all game. Indy would have given up by the end of the 3rd Q. By game's end they had only run 20 times. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

Having Tebow throw against the Steelers. Nobody expected that.

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 02:06 PM
You know, Fox did take the Broncos to the playoffs with Tebow and with a great game plan beat the Steelers. Maybe that was all McCoy, but it worked. Maybe having Manning makes you not want to overthink things.

Personally, I would chalk that Steelers game up to a great defensive effort and DT outrunning the entire defense. But even if we do give Fox credit for all that...it happened 3 years ago.

underrated29
01-12-2015, 02:14 PM
Name one time in the playoffs where the Broncos, under Fox, did something that made you say 'Wow! Where did that come from?' I can't. I can't think of a gameplan in the PO's under Fox where we saw wrinkles and any innovation. Meanwhile Belichick is being Belichick and always breaking something else out. This time it was knowing the rules enough to handle Baltimore with pass eligible players and when to declare. Now I am not necessarily looking for that from Fox BUT I would have liked to see something different.

Finally, if we are to believe the Manning tear-gate, then why didn't Fox have the gumption to get in Manning's ear and tell him to stop the audibles to pass and run the play called? :confused: It was so easy coming into this game that all Denver had to do was run the ball all game. Indy would have given up by the end of the 3rd Q. By game's end they had only run 20 times. That is unacceptable in my opinion.



Couldnt agree more.

What it comes down to is who you believe is at the fault for it. Fox? Gase? Manning? Some combo of the three.



I see Gase and Fox as the two responsible for this. I read a statement posted by DNC that said manning only changes the play about 20% of the time. Which means that 80% of the plays we run are the plays Gase calls in.

Just yesterday we had 5? 3 and outs. FIVE of them. How can you (not you just in general) tell me that a team with Manning, DT, JT, Sanders, CJ Anderson, and Wes Welker cannot gain 10 yards, a simple 10 yards on 3 tries? How is this explained. How can manning and co be so bad, especially when you consider we set every offensive record last year.


So to me that is on Gase. The seabirds said they knew what plays we would run, they also knew what manning would audible into. So they only had to worry about 2 plays basically. Same has been said this year....also seen for anyone who watches the games and sees our 5 fav plays (bubble screen, short out route, deep down sidelines, run on first down, cross pick play).

I also blame fox for letting Gase call the same stupid plays over and over again. I have challenged anyone here to show otherwise and provide as many plays as they can to the middle of the field, or a seem, or a post, or a quick slant, or a comeback....I gurantee I will triple that amount of plays with the "Gase Fav 5". So far, everyone seems to agree.



Finally, the offense only seemed to work when we were in hurry up mode. Against the bengals right before half, we marched down for a score. Easy. I initially gave Gase all the credit for that. I made post after post how Gase "woke up" but the more I think about it the more I think that was all Manning. I cant be sure, but did we have time for a huddle, for Gase to call in a play via headset? The offense only seemed to work when manning called his plays. We called quick slants, comebacks, inside hitches, seem and post routes. We rolled up like 21 unanswered points. Up 'til yesterday I thought and gave all the credit to Gase for this, but now I am re-thinking this and starting to lean towards that being peyton calling those plays.



Since about week 4 I have had zero faith in our offense to score points and convert 3rd downs. The two years prior (even mannings first here- i had faith we could convert nearly any first down). Now we cannot even call a pass with routes that are beyond the sticks (4th and 8 and the route calls for a 6 yard incut). I could be wrong like so many here want to tell me, but until someone can come up with solid evidence otherwise I think it all falls on Gase first and foremost and then fox for allowing it and then manning for not calling something different. The Oline did not do them any favors either but that is a whole other topic. They deserve their blame too!

jhildebrand
01-12-2015, 02:18 PM
Having Tebow throw against the Steelers. Nobody expected that.

Play selection was a surprise. Not a wrinkle. It was a play they had run all year.

Mike
01-12-2015, 02:56 PM
You know, Fox did take the Broncos to the playoffs with Tebow and with a great game plan beat the Steelers. Maybe that was all McCoy, but it worked. Maybe having Manning makes you not want to overthink things.

Here is my problem with that statement. He would have stuck with Orton had the fans not gone full rebellion on him. Orton would have never gotten us the division. Even with Tebow they still didn't use him appropriately. And Denver still had to back into the division to get there. I will give them credit for the Steelers game, they were prepared and ready to play.

tomjonesrocks
01-12-2015, 03:06 PM
The problem is the upsets. The Broncos are getting "stunned" in playoffs as heavy favorites. Beaten by less talented rosters on the reg.

Unacceptable. It starts at the top.

Dreadnought
01-12-2015, 03:06 PM
Here is my problem with that statement. He would have stuck with Orton had the fans not gone full rebellion on him. Orton would have never gotten us the division. Even with Tebow they still didn't use him appropriately. And Denver still had to back into the division to get there. I will give them credit for the Steelers game, they were prepared and ready to play.

Mike, that was a bad roster and honestly a bad team. Fox worked alchemy with those bums, basically resurrecting a circa 1946 offense and covering up the fact we had no actual QB

silkamilkamonico
01-12-2015, 03:17 PM
Did Fox sign an extension at the beginning of the year?

CoachChaz
01-12-2015, 03:34 PM
Mike, that was a bad roster and honestly a bad team. Fox worked alchemy with those bums, basically resurrecting a circa 1946 offense and covering up the fact we had no actual QB

That's where the problem lies. Those players didnt expect to be there, so they played with heart and guts and busted their asses to take advantage of the opportunity. I dont know that we can say that about this team as a whole the last 3 seasons. Many of these players seem to be going through the motions with the attitude that they could win on talent alone. THAT comes down to coaching.

Simple Jaded
01-12-2015, 06:42 PM
Did Fox sign an extension at the beginning of the year?

Nine months ago, 3 year extension.

Simple Jaded
01-12-2015, 06:51 PM
Here is my problem with that statement. He would have stuck with Orton had the fans not gone full rebellion on him. Orton would have never gotten us the division. Even with Tebow they still didn't use him appropriately. And Denver still had to back into the division to get there. I will give them credit for the Steelers game, they were prepared and ready to play.
That was a masterful job of coaching, plain and simple, from the moment they scrapped their pro system to use Tebow's college system. What more could they have done, legitimately?

WARHORSE
01-14-2015, 08:29 PM
Well, there ya go. Del Rio and Fox gone. After looking at what Del Rio did for a gameplan more, even MORE glad now that hes gone, and I look forward to playing against his sorry schemes twice a year.

Talk about not being prepared for a big game and not adjusting. Hilton is eating up the slower Talib and do we put Harris on him at all? NO. Vanilla as vanilla can get with the pass rush. He all but made Miller and Ware disappear.

No fire on this defense except from Harris, Marshall and Roby.

silkamilkamonico
01-14-2015, 08:47 PM
Hilton is eating up the slower Talib and do we put Harris on him at all? NO.

Shouldn't have had to. SHould have had Talib up in his face all game like New England did last year, not playing 12 yards off the LOS every time. That shitshow was on Del Rio, not Talib.

artie_dale
01-15-2015, 08:28 AM
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/14/j-j-watt-and-bill-obrien-helped-get-john-fox-fired-in-denver/

“When the Texans came in for that shared practice in Denver,” McKee told Mad Radio. “One of the things that pissed off Elway is that the Texans, from station to station, were running, hustling, physical and basically beat the crap out of the Broncos in the practices before the scrimmage.

“Elway was pissed off that the Broncos sort of dragged from station to station, were lethargic and didn’t take the same intensity and energy into the practices that the Texans did.”


I've felt this way since that Baltimore loss two yrs ago. No fire. No spunk. No intensity. No hype. Also the reason we couldn't match the Seahawks and couldn't rally against the Colts after a week off. Good riddance!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-15-2015, 10:26 AM
The problem is the upsets. The Broncos are getting "stunned" in playoffs as heavy favorites. Beaten by less talented rosters on the reg.

Unacceptable. It starts at the top.

I don't know about that. I suppose it applies to the Colts, but the two previous yearswe lost to the SB champions.

Dreadnought
01-15-2015, 10:32 AM
I don't know about that. I suppose it applies to the Colts, but the two previous yearswe lost to the SB champions.

And this year we lost with a crippled QB who had a terrible game. That's not an issue of motivation or "fire"

shank
01-15-2015, 10:33 AM
I don't know about that. I suppose it applies to the Colts, but the two previous yearswe lost to the SB champions.

We were favored going into both games.

Ravage!!!
01-15-2015, 10:38 AM
We were favored going into both games.

. As far as being favored in this last Colts game...would we have been favored if we didn't have Manning in the lineup? Because that's essentially what we were.

Dreadnought
01-15-2015, 10:41 AM
I don't know who you were reading for the Super Bowl, but we were most certainly NOT favored. As far as being favored in this last Colts game...would we have been favored if we didn't have Manning in the lineup? Because that's essentially what we were.

Good way to put it. We had a David Carr doppelganger lined up behind center

Northman
01-15-2015, 10:41 AM
And this year we lost with a crippled QB who had a terrible game. That's not an issue of motivation or "fire"

Yes and no.

Despite Manning's struggles it was very evident the rest of the team lacked fire outside of Anderson. A lot of the players were just going through the motions, something that has pretty much plagued them the last 3 years. The talent is there, the motivation not so much and that is a coaching issue as well as a player issue.

shank
01-15-2015, 10:42 AM
I don't know who you were reading for the Super Bowl, but we were most certainly NOT favored. As far as being favored in this last Colts game...would we have been favored if we didn't have Manning in the lineup? Because that's essentially what we were.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1929542-seahawks-vs-broncos-predictions-odds-and-spread-for-super-bowl-xlviii

Northman
01-15-2015, 10:47 AM
Broncos were favored in the SB against the Hawks. I mean, we had a record setting offense that year and we did have Peyton Manning. Definitely didnt look like it by the end of the game but we were favored.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/superbowl/history/

Ravage!!!
01-15-2015, 11:00 AM
I guess if you want to pick a couple articles, but I know for a fact taht if you listened and read things through that entire week, MOST were picking the Seahawks to win. We may have been "picked" by some to win, but there is NO WAY you can say we were "favored" to win that SUper Bowl.

Northman
01-15-2015, 11:23 AM
I guess if you want to pick a couple articles, but I know for a fact taht if you listened and read things through that entire week, MOST were picking the Seahawks to win. We may have been "picked" by some to win, but there is NO WAY you can say we were "favored" to win that SUper Bowl.

Dunno, going into the game i felt really confident honestly and thats just from my own perspective. I really didnt think they could stop us like that. I knew they might be able to slow us down but i just thought our offense would be too much for them to handle. Well, we know it didnt turn out that way but didnt change that i was pretty confident going in.

Buff
01-15-2015, 11:47 AM
I guess if you want to pick a couple articles, but I know for a fact taht if you listened and read things through that entire week, MOST were picking the Seahawks to win. We may have been "picked" by some to win, but there is NO WAY you can say we were "favored" to win that SUper Bowl.

Rav, you sound like the Iraq defense minister, bud... We were absolutely favored by every major odds maker in the world. You can unequivocally, factually say that we were favored in that game.

silkamilkamonico
01-15-2015, 11:51 AM
Denver was absolutely favored in that game. According to national pundits, no way was Seattle, or any defense, going to stop the Great Offense of All Time.

silkamilkamonico
01-15-2015, 11:54 AM
As far as fire and intensity, I heard all I needed to hear when our young, skilled, brash CB Harris commented how the team knew Manning was hurt and we priobably wouldn't win. I thought we had a tough defense. That's just ***** talk - "Our 40 year old QB is gimpy and hurt, we're done." Richard Sherman would have been like "No worries old man, we'll carry you to victory." Our defense is a bunch of soft pussies - and that's an attitude thing.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-15-2015, 12:13 PM
As far as fire and intensity, I heard all I needed to hear when our young, skilled, brash CB Harris commented how the team knew Manning was hurt and we priobably wouldn't win. I thought we had a tough defense. That's just ***** talk - "Our 40 year old QB is gimpy and hurt, we're done." Richard Sherman would have been like "No worries old man, we'll carry you to victory." Our defense is a bunch of soft pussies - and that's an attitude thing.

Where did you hear that?

silkamilkamonico
01-15-2015, 12:22 PM
His post game comments. That's what I read into them. Not exactly what you would hear from a salty defense.

shank
01-15-2015, 01:48 PM
I guess if you want to pick a couple articles, but I know for a fact taht if you listened and read things through that entire week, MOST were picking the Seahawks to win. We may have been "picked" by some to win, but there is NO WAY you can say we were "favored" to win that SUper Bowl.

The link I posted is a collection from all over the internet, all showing the broncos favored...