Ex-Broncos Terrell Davis, John Lynch finalists for 2015 Hall of Fame class

[Denver Native (Carol)]

A pair of former Broncos — running back Terrell Davis and safety John Lynch — were named among the 15 modern-era finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2015, the NFL team announced Thursday night.

Both players will be considered for enshrinement into the Hall of Fame when the Hall's 46-member Selection Committee meets in Glendale, Ariz., on Jan. 31 — the eve of Super Bowl XLIX.

The Broncos currently have four players in the Hall of Fame: quarterback John Elway (2004), tackle Gary Zimmerman (2008), running back Floyd Little (2010) and tight end Shannon Sharpe (2011).

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27286066/ex-broncos-terrell-davis-john-lynch-finalists-2015-hall-fame-class

List of the 15 finalists
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000455667/article/kurt-warner-among-class-of-2015-hall-of-fame-finalists

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Two cases for the brilliant crescendo: Yes, U2 has been around for decades, but were they really that much better than Guns N' Roses? From the late 1980s to the early '90s, who was more successful? You don't want to know the truthful answer. Was any running back -- Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk -- better than Terrell Davis in the late '90s? Sure, Davis got hurt, but as Pro Football Hall of Fame voter Jim Trotter has pointed out, his 142.5 rushing yards per game in the postseason is so far above what anyone else has accomplished that, well, who cares that his career was cut short?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000455681/article/hall-of-fame-finalists-junior-seau-a-lock-charles-haley-deserving

[VonDoom]

Good for TD. I hope this is his year - imagine him being inducted the night before we win the Super Bowl, eh? :strongy:

It's amazing that he's been a semi-finalist nine times before he made it to the next cut.

[Slick]

I'm not even going to get my hopes up.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

And on the ninth try, Terrell Davis made it to the room.

Nine times the former Broncos running back was a top 25 semifinalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The first eight times he missed the cut to 15 modern-era finalists.

On the ninth try, Davis earned the right to be in the discussion. Davis and former Broncos safety John Lynch were among 15 finalists who will be considered for the 2015 Pro Football Hall of Fame class by a group of 46 voters.

"They got an old man in the room this year," Davis said Thursday night after he watched his selection as a finalist on the NFL Network. "It got a little more emotional than I expected. It meant more to me than I thought. I think being around the media the last couple years and being further removed from the game, I appreciate it more."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27286066/ex-broncos-terrell-davis-john-lynch-finalists-2015

[ShaneFalco]

Bruce should be on that list.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He played in a lot of playoff games too. 142 per playoff game is huge.

[tomjonesrocks]

Glad to hear about TD.

Loved watching that man play. Deeply.
2nd favorite player all-time.

[GEM]

Bruce should be on that list.

Take that Rams talk somewhere else.

[Davii]

Bruce should be on that list.

Nobody cares. This is about two Bronco players. Take that Rams talk to LA.

[Canmore]

I'm thrilled TD made the cut. Good for Lynch also.

[MileHighCrew]

I hope, oh how I hope :salute:

[Canmore]

I hope, oh how I hope :salute:

You and me both.

[dogfish]

come on TD, run to glory one more time!



:salute:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Am I the only one who thinks Atwater was a better football player than Lynch?

[NightTrainLayne]

Am I the only one who thinks Atwater was a better football player than Lynch?

No.

[BroncoJoe]

Am I the only one who thinks Atwater was a better football player than Lynch?

No.

[GEM]

Am I the only one who thinks Atwater was a better football player than Lynch?

Nope. Lynch was very, very good. Atwater was mean and nasty effing great!

[MileHighCrew]

Atwater should have got in a long time ago

[Krugan]

Token this year im affraid :(

No faith in these voters what so ever, to look at what some of the Broncos have accomplished.

Wonder if Rod Smith will ever get a nod at all.... Not alot of undrafted players accomplished what he has, not to mention the boat load of defensive players from past decades that just dont get a sniff despite having comparable numbers. Shrug....

[7DnBrnc53]

Nope. Lynch was very, very good. Atwater was mean and nasty effing great!

Lynch is only getting more props because he is on TV, and because he was a Buccaneer first. The HOF voters hate Denver. Dr. Z (Paul Zimmerman) sold the other voters on the lie that Gradishar's tackle stats were made up by the Broncos.

[OB]

They are not EX Broncos - once a Bronco always a Bronco :D

I hope TD makes it - I am not sure because of his shortened career but the short one he did have was HOF caliber for sure

Kurt Warner - really - Just MHO but I don't think he is HOF QB material

[Northman]

Am I the only one who thinks Atwater was a better football player than Lynch?


Im a big Atwater fan but not really sure i could put one that much above the other. I think Lynch's best years were in Tampa and before a lot of the rule changes regarding hard hitting whereas Stevie had his own issues in pass defense. Both in their prime were crazy good though.

[Northman]

They are not EX Broncos - once a Bronco always a Bronco :D

I hope TD makes it - I am not sure because of his shortened career but the short one he did have was HOF caliber for sure

Kurt Warner - really - Just MHO but I don't think he is HOF QB material


TD belongs, no question in my mind and i have never wavered from that regardless of time on the field.

[Ravage!!!]

I think TD holds up to ANYONE in the game.

Kurt Warner is one of those.. hmmm. He had (like Davis) six INCREDIBLE years. But he had 6 good years, then some off years, and then some really GOOD years again! Meeting marks that NO ONE had reached other than Dan Marino (40 TDs in a season for one). Going to 3 Super Bowls with 2 different teams. Can I fault him for having that span inbtween good years (when he was basically brought in to NY to tutor Manning), while not taking away from Davis for not having a 'later' years at all? Not when he finishes up with the seasons he had in AZ.

Lynch was great. He was a top Safety in the NFL for a long time, and by the time he came to Denver he was just less of himself, but still very good. I MISS the days of when safeties were FEARED, and that fear kept QBs from just launching high passes down the field leaving their WRs to get crunched.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

They are not EX Broncos - once a Bronco always a Bronco :D

I hope TD makes it - I am not sure because of his shortened career but the short one he did have was HOF caliber for sure

Kurt Warner - really - Just MHO but I don't think he is HOF QB material

If Warner gets in then TD should definitely get in. Warner had a short career by QB standards.


Im a big Atwater fan but not really sure i could put one that much above the other. I think Lynch's best years were in Tampa and before a lot of the rule changes regarding hard hitting whereas Stevie had his own issues in pass defense. Both in their prime were crazy good though.

That might be part of what is affecting my opinion. I saw Atwater in his prime, which was better than the Lynch I saw in Denver.

[Ravage!!!]

If Warner gets in then TD should definitely get in. Warner had a short career by QB standards.

He had a 12 year career in the NFL.

[TXBRONC]

Am I the only one who thinks Atwater was a better football player than Lynch?

No.

[BroncoJoe]

I think TD holds up to ANYONE in the game.

Kurt Warner is one of those.. hmmm. He had (like Davis) six INCREDIBLE years. But he had 6 good years, then some off years, and then some really GOOD years again! Meeting marks that NO ONE had reached other than Dan Marino (40 TDs in a season for one). Going to 3 Super Bowls with 2 different teams. Can I fault him for having that span inbtween good years (when he was basically brought in to NY to tutor Manning), while not taking away from Davis for not having a 'later' years at all? Not when he finishes up with the seasons he had in AZ.

Lynch was great. He was a top Safety in the NFL for a long time, and by the time he came to Denver he was just less of himself, but still very good. I MISS the days of when safeties were FEARED, and that fear kept QBs from just launching high passes down the field leaving their WRs to get crunched.

I could be a real dik and say "but I thought you insist the game hasn't changed!"

But I won't.

[GEM]

You guys get more snippy with each other than a bunch of menstruating women. :laugh:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He had a 12 year career in the NFL.

True, his time of success was quite a bit shorter than that however.

[Ravage!!!]

True, his time of success was quite a bit shorter than that however.

True.. much like Terrell Davis' career. Which is why its hard for me to dismiss the Great things he did. I mean, 2 NFL MVP awards, and a Super Bowl MVP.

List of players that have won multiple MVP awards:

Peyton Manning 5

Jim Brown 3
Johnny Unitas 3
Brett Favre 3

Joe Montana 2
Steve Young 2
Kurt Warner 2
Tom Brady 2

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

True.. much like Terrell Davis' career. Which is why its hard for me to dismiss the Great things he did. I mean, 2 NFL MVP awards, and a Super Bowl MVP.

List of players that have won multiple MVP awards:

Peyton Manning 5

Jim Brown 3
Johnny Unitas 3
Brett Favre 3

Joe Montana 2
Steve Young 2
Kurt Warner 2
Tom Brady 2

I think they both belong in the Hall.

[BroncoJoe]

I don't have any issue with Warner being a finalist, or even if he gets in.

I have a real problem with Davis not being a "true" candidate.

[Ravage!!!]

I think they both belong in the Hall.

Its a tough one, for sure. Much like its hard for people to put Davis in because of his short career. But when he was healthy, he was THE top dog in the NFL. Could do everything and do it with greatness.

[Ravage!!!]

I could be a real dik and say "but I thought you insist the game hasn't changed!"

But I won't.

You can try to say that, but it hasn't changed. The rules have changed, but the GAME... the x's and O's of the game, ahven't changed. THe strategies of formations and routes, the blocking schemes and how to get them to work..... and then the Counters to everything mentioned, hasn't changed.

Don't mistake rule changes for "game" changes. Just because it's easier to pass now, doesn't mean that the X's and O's of football is different today than it was 40 years ago.

[BroncoJoe]

You can try to say that, but it hasn't changed. The rules have changed, but the GAME... the x's and O's of the game, ahven't changed. THe strategies of formations and routes, the blocking schemes and how to get them to work..... and then the Counters to everything mentioned, hasn't changed.

Don't mistake rule changes for "game" changes. Just because it's easier to pass now, doesn't mean that the X's and O's of football is different today than it was 40 years ago.

Are you saying "THe strategies of formations and routes, the blocking schemes" haven't changed since football's birth? Dude, that's just crazy.

I guess we're arguing the definition of "change". Cars still have engines, run on gas, require four tires and oil. Been like that since the Model-T and before, but a lot has changed.

I have the exact same 10 fingers and 10 toes, DNA and eye color as well. But I've changed since my birth. My parents, siblings and relatives are still the "same", but have changed as well.

To say the NFL hasn't changed is just being ignorant. Everything "changes".

Perhaps you're talking about principal, and I'm talking evolution. The game is clearly different than what is was in it's infancy - hell, even just 10 years ago.

[Poet]

Football changes a lot. Physical abilities in players have greatly changed, the rules inform coaches of what types of strategies they can employ and how the game is played. The X's and O's have not really changed all that much, but that's only a portion of the game. Why do we not see many fullbacks anymore? Why is there now a premium on coverage LB where before that wasn't the case so much? Why do we see more DB's have ball skills? It's not just X's and O's and that belief is just not persuasive or correct.

[Ravage!!!]

Are you saying "THe strategies of formations and routes, the blocking schemes" haven't changed since football's birth? Dude, that's just crazy.

I guess we're arguing the definition of "change". Cars still have engines, run on gas, require four tires and oil. Been like that since the Model-T and before, but a lot has changed.

I have the exact same 10 fingers and 10 toes, DNA and eye color as well. But I've changed since my birth. My parents, siblings and relatives are still the "same", but have changed as well.

To say the NFL hasn't changed is just being ignorant. Everything "changes".

Perhaps you're talking about principal, and I'm talking evolution. The game is clearly different than what is was in it's infancy - hell, even just 10 years ago.

If you are trying to get into the semantics of the word "change".... then yes. Things have "changed." I didn't realize we were talking about a team's colors or the size of the players.

I'm telling you that the offensive plays, strategies, and how the make-up of the game is the same as it was 50 years ago. Changes happen...rules...how fouls are called, or the addition of technology. But the GAME is the same. The same plays that were used in the spread offenses back in the 60s are no different than they are today. The "spread offense".. is NOT new. In fact, its quite old. Just being brought back. Just like the wing-T, the "pistol" formation, and the read option. OLD.

So if the game is so "different" than it used to be, why is it that coaches of today are using the same offenses/defenses of yesterday? The West Coast offense is still being used today...and that was "derived" by a coach in the 80s (30 years ago)..and by his own words, those plays were the same that he was taught when he was a player. The GAME is the same. Like the car... you can add wings, bigger wheels, thinner tires, doors that open up instead of out, or even a GPS computer.....but its still a car.

if

[BroncoJoe]

If you are trying to get into the semantics of the word "change".... then yes. Things have "changed." I didn't realize we were talking about a team's colors or the size of the players.

I'm telling you that the offensive plays, strategies, and how the make-up of the game is the same as it was 50 years ago. Changes happen...rules...how fouls are called, or the addition of technology. But the GAME is the same. The same plays that were used in the spread offenses back in the 60s are no different than they are today. The "spread offense".. is NOT new. In fact, its quite old. Just being brought back. Just like the wing-T, the "pistol" formation, and the read option. OLD.

So if the game is so "different" than it used to be, why is it that coaches of today are using the same offenses/defenses of yesterday? The West Coast offense is still being used today...and that was "derived" by a coach in the 80s (30 years ago)..and by his own words, those plays were the same that he was taught when he was a player. The GAME is the same. Like the car... you can add wings, bigger wheels, thinner tires, doors that open up instead of out, or even a GPS computer.....but its still a car.

if

Yeah, no.

Agree to disagree, but you're in a severe minority here. I mean really? The forward pass wasn't even part of the game in its infancy.

[Ravage!!!]

Football changes a lot. Physical abilities in players have greatly changed, the rules inform coaches of what types of strategies they can employ and how the game is played. The X's and O's have not really changed all that much, but that's only a portion of the game. Why do we not see many fullbacks anymore? Why is there now a premium on coverage LB where before that wasn't the case so much? Why do we see more DB's have ball skills? It's not just X's and O's and that belief is just not persuasive or correct.


No its not. You are NOT describing CHANGE to the game...but rather describing changes in EXECUTING the SAME FRIGGING GAME. The idea that by using the same strategies and executions are the same, yet changing WHEN they are used. We DO see fullbacks today. The reason for the change in LBs is to cover the spread offense, which was around a LONG time ago. What happened to that? The same thing that will happen in the NFL (as its cicular)..teams will RUN more because the LBs are smaller to try and cover the pass. Eventually, you will have to bring in bigger bodies to play against a running team in your division, and then you will pass to counter the larger LBs. That's strategy, not change to the game.
(why do we see more DBs have ball skills????? :confused: What the frak does that even mean?)

If the X's and O's are the same, and the strategies of the plays are the same..... that would mean that the SAME player execution is needed for success. The REASONS (or game time strategy) as to WHY a formation is called, personnel is used or not used, has nothing to with the GAME changing. Those are generally a counter as to what you are playing against (meaning you might bring in a 4 WR to counter their fast LB that was lined up on your TE...or you might bring in a 5th DB to counter against the passing attack).

"the belief that you think that is the GAME changing is just not persuasive NOR correct."

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah, no.

Agree to disagree, but you're in a severe minority here. I mean really? The forward pass wasn't even part of the game in its infancy.

Well... if you read what I"m saying I didn't say the infancy of the game before the forward pass. All you ahve to do is actually read my posts. But its ok if I'm in the minority on this....it's really not an opinion to be honest.

[OB]

You guys get more snippy with each other than a bunch of menstruating women. :laugh:

Nothing truer has ever been posted on this site :)

[Denver Native (Carol)]

A while ago, they were discussing the HOF finalists on NFL Insiders, and John Clayton, who has a vote, stated they really need to look at WR's, as they have been accused of being very thin on getting WR's into the HOF.

[BroncoJoe]

Well... if you read what I"m saying I didn't say the infancy of the game before the forward pass. All you ahve to do is actually read my posts. But its ok if I'm in the minority on this....it's really not an opinion to be honest.

It is an opinion, to be honest. Yours. And it's wrong.

[Ravage!!!]

A while ago, they were discussing the HOF finalists on NFL Insiders, and John Clayton, who has a vote, stated they really need to look at WR's, as they have been accused of being very thin on getting WR's into the HOF.

That's interesting.

when looking at it, there has only been 11 WRs inducted since 1985.

[OB]

It is an opinion, to be honest. Yours. And it's wrong.

Can an opinion be wrong? My opinion is that the Patriots totally suck ass - but in reality they are a pretty decent team (even if they do cheat) - My opinion is MJ should be legal - is that wrong vs lets say Atwaters opinion that MJ should always be illegal

Opinions are true to the person that owns them

But thats just MHO :D

[Ravage!!!]

It is an opinion, to be honest. Yours. And it's wrong.

:lol: I find it funny that you tried to establish it as an opinion, then turn around and tell me its wrong. Irony makes me laugh.

But, to be honest with you Joe...its not an opinion. Not in this case. Perhaps we are talking bout different things, semantics (as one will see something as being implimented differently and defining that as change....such as King tried to do in his post). But in this case, (and I know this is going to come across as being pompous, and if you were here actually hearing my voice, I truly don't think it would come across this way...but internet chat has a way of doing that to conversations).... this isn't an opinion, its fact. It's a fact that the game of football today is the same as it was before the merger. Implimenting the same strategies, differently, doesn't mean its a change in the game.

[BroncoJoe]

:lol: I find it funny that you tried to establish it as an opinion, then turn around and tell me its wrong. Irony makes me laugh.

But, to be honest with you Joe...its not an opinion. Not in this case. Perhaps we are talking bout different things, semantics (as one will see something as being implimented differently and defining that as change....such as King tried to do in his post). But in this case, (and I know this is going to come across as being pompous, and if you were here actually hearing my voice, I truly don't think it would come across this way...but internet chat has a way of doing that to conversations).... this isn't an opinion, its fact. It's a fact that the game of football today is the same as it was before the merger. Implimenting the same strategies, differently, doesn't mean its a change in the game.

It is semantics, and I agree. Just like a car is the same as using a horse drawn carriage. They both take you from point A to B. The same, right?

It is a different game, and for some coaches, they can't keep up with the changes.

I like debating with you - you don't stoop to name calling like others, but bring your perspective.

BTW - you did spell implementing wrong... :D

[BroncoJoe]

Can an opinion be wrong? My opinion is that the Patriots totally suck ass - but in reality they are a pretty decent team (even if they do cheat) - My opinion is MJ should be legal - is that wrong vs lets say Atwaters opinion that MJ should always be illegal

Opinions are true to the person that owns them

But thats just MHO :D

Yes, OB. An opinion can be wrong.

[Ravage!!!]

Yes, OB. An opinion can be wrong.

Hah.. an opinion...but definition, can NOT be wrong.

[BroncoJoe]

Hah.. an opinion...but definition, can NOT be wrong.

o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən
noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

They certainly can be wrong. Again, semantics.

[Northman]

You guys are so ridiculous.

[BroncoJoe]

You guys are so ridiculous.

It's kind of fun, though!

[BroncoJoe]

Anyway - TD deserves a yellow jacket. That is a fact.

[DenBronx]

I really hope they both make it.

[Poet]

No its not. You are NOT describing CHANGE to the game...but rather describing changes in EXECUTING the SAME FRIGGING GAME. The idea that by using the same strategies and executions are the same, yet changing WHEN they are used. We DO see fullbacks today. The reason for the change in LBs is to cover the spread offense, which was around a LONG time ago. What happened to that? The same thing that will happen in the NFL (as its cicular)..teams will RUN more because the LBs are smaller to try and cover the pass. Eventually, you will have to bring in bigger bodies to play against a running team in your division, and then you will pass to counter the larger LBs. That's strategy, not change to the game.
(why do we see more DBs have ball skills????? :confused: What the frak does that even mean?)

If the X's and O's are the same, and the strategies of the plays are the same..... that would mean that the SAME player execution is needed for success. The REASONS (or game time strategy) as to WHY a formation is called, personnel is used or not used, has nothing to with the GAME changing. Those are generally a counter as to what you are playing against (meaning you might bring in a 4 WR to counter their fast LB that was lined up on your TE...or you might bring in a 5th DB to counter against the passing attack).

"the belief that you think that is the GAME changing is just not persuasive NOR correct."


We're at the classic 'King and Ravage have to agree to disagree' impasse.

[BroncoJoe]

I really hope they both make it.

Honestly, I could care less about Lynch. Like the guy, but he isn't really a "Bronco".

[Ravage!!!]

It is semantics, and I agree. Just like a car is the same as using a horse drawn carriage. They both take you from point A to B. The same, right?

It is a different game, and for some coaches, they can't keep up with the changes.

I like debating with you - you don't stoop to name calling like others, but bring your perspective.



Joe. Taking point to A - B and using your example is not semantics.

If the strategies are the same as they were in the 50-60s, and the WR routes are the same, and the run plays are the same, and the defenses that defend these routes and run plays are the same, then the 'game' hasn't changed.

Lets use another example. The plane, or rather, flight. Three aspects to flight. Speed, Drag, and Lift. No matter how many missles are added, or the changing from the propeller to the jet engine, these properties are still the same. We still have to account for those three properties. If I have smaller wings, and thus less lift, I have to add more speed to overcome.

So although the F15 is different than the propellar driven Mustang.... they both still are doing the same thing. The F15 is much more faster, and much more manueverable, but the plane is still the plane. Flight is still accomplished by manipulating those three same properties.

King tried to bring examples (strange ones)...about no FBs and corner backs (or something). But different personnel doesn't change the plane. Different personnel are just used differently to accomplish the same game that was available and used 50 years ago. The same offenses and defenses were used back in the 50-60s as they are today. In fact, many are the EXACT same thing, with different names. Dungy told the story of how he came up with the "tampa 2" from when he was playing for Pittsburgh (mid 70s I believe) and how they implimented that same defense, but called it something different. Just because a guy now runs a 4.2 forty instead of a 4.8, doesn't mean the GO route has changed.

Like I said, I think we might be debating symantics...meaning you are referrring to things being different, as change. LIke, we see much more passing today than we did in the 80s. That's different than today's football (mostly because of the rule changes)..but we DID see the same offenses used in the 80s as we do today. Same routes, same spread offenses, same defenses to counter those offenses. So its different (i'm using different instead of change, here) in the sense that the NUMBER of pass plays to run plays...or how often they use the spread offense from the 80s.


BTW - you did spell implementing wrong... :D
DAMNIT!!!!!!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Its a tough one, for sure. Much like its hard for people to put Davis in because of his short career. But when he was healthy, he was THE top dog in the NFL. Could do everything and do it with greatness.

If a player is the best at his position for 4-5 years it's a no brainer to me.

[Poet]

I laughed pretty hard at the 'damnit'.

[Ravage!!!]

o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən
noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

They certainly can be wrong. Again, semantics.

RIGHT.. not formed on fact or knowledge, which means.... an OPINION can NEVER BE WRONG. Ever. I can form an opinion based on nothing other than a person's hair color....and that opinion is NOT wrong because it is an opinion. It is "literally" the definition of opinion. Can't be wrong as it does not have to be formed on fact.

[BroncoJoe]

So Rav, if a coach can't adjust to the differences in how the game is played today, as opposed to years ago, would you agree the game has passed him by?

After all, that has been the crux of my argument. The game has, and will continue to become more than some coaches can handle. It's a different game than it was even 5 years ago. It is constantly evolving (changing) whether it be rules, player abilities or how those "age old" routes and plays are implemented and executed and ultimately called during the course of a game.

[BroncoJoe]

RIGHT.. not formed on fact or knowledge, which means.... an OPINION can NEVER BE WRONG. Ever. I can form an opinion based on nothing other than a person's hair color....and that opinion is NOT wrong because it is an opinion. It is "literally" the definition of opinion. Can't be wrong as it does not have to be formed on fact.

I believe there was nothing wrong about what happened in Paris. 1 + 1 = 3. Those are my opinions.

Right or wrong?

Clearly joking, but an opinion can be wrong.

[Ravage!!!]

I believe there was nothing wrong about what happened in Paris. 1 + 1 = 3. Those are my opinions.

Right or wrong?

Clearly joking, but an opinion can be wrong.

"I believe there is nothing wrong about what happened in Paris".... OPinion...absolutely... can't be wrong. If you don't believe there wasn't anything wrong, then that is yoru right. Can't be wrong.

But with the other (1+1=3) you used facts. So, your statement wasn't an opinion (even though you stated it as an opinion)because you simply stated an incorrect fact. There is a difference.

"I think JT is soft because he misses games due to injuries." Is an opinion. Can't be wrong. "John Elway is the greatest QB of all time." Now this is a trick statement, because although it's an opinion..... EVERYONE knows it as fact. :D


Seriously, Joe... Opinions cant' be wrong. It is literally the definition of the word.

[Ravage!!!]

So Rav, if a coach can't adjust to the differences in how the game is played today, as opposed to years ago, would you agree the game has passed him by?

After all, that has been the crux of my argument. The game has, and will continue to become more than some coaches can handle. It's a different game than it was even 5 years ago. It is constantly evolving (changing) whether it be rules, player abilities or how those "age old" routes and plays are implemented and executed and ultimately called during the course of a game.

Ok. Now... this is where I'm going to bring in the "opinion" thing again. There could be MANY differences as to why a coach has had success in one location and not another. Players on the team, mainly. Having assistant coaches that mesh. Having players that fit your system. Having a GM that gets players that fit your system, and finally, the OBVIOUS one for any coach in the NFL........ having the right QB or not (and many others I'm sure I could come up with if given time).

Its an OPINION that the reason a coach fails is that the "game has passed them by." Personally, when I hear that, I don't think it's as much of an opinion as I believe it to be ignorance. Ignorance (by definition) simply means "lack of knowledge." If you are telling me that Joe Gibbs coudln't coach the Redskins back to the Super Bowl again because the game had "passed him by"....then I absolutely would just shake my head and believe you to be ignorant of the facts. IT wasn't Joe's lack of football knowledge or knowhow, nor the game passing him by. Changes in owners, expectations, players, player peronalities/attitudes/work ethic...and tens of othr reasons go into a team having success and not success. Lets face it, it is HARD to go to the Super Bowl and you have to have the right mixture of a LOT of things for that to go your way. Mainly, good managment and personnel on the team to go along with good coaching.

[GEM]

Oh man...this is better than a cat fight. :laugh:

[ShaneFalco]

I would reply to the talks about warner but I'll prolly get banned

[Northman]

I would reply to the talks about warner but I'll prolly get banned

Probably

[Denver Native (Carol)]

On the Saturday before the Super Bowl the annual tradition of voting for the Pro Football Hall of Fame takes place, and in this week preceding that vote I would be remiss to not sing the praises, once again, of Terrell Davis.

Davis is completely and absolutely deserving of being honored with induction.

It took him nine years to get “into the room,” as the voters put it, and now that he is in, he deserves the bronze bust.

One of the great lines that I have ever heard is from former Bronco linebacker Tom Jackson, now more noted as an ESPN personality.

TJ has said that the reason some guys get overlooks is, “he really WAS that good,” meaning as good as his statistics say.

As a preamble, let me throw praise the way of Jeff Legwold of ESPN, who will be the presenter for Davis. Jeff does as thorough a job researching the case for a player as anyone I have known. He looks at all the material available, including, in the case of linemen, the actual coaches’ video of every play in a player’s career. So I know TD will get a great presentation.

From my standpoint, let’s take a look at some stats that Davis accumulated, with an eye toward where he fits into the Hall of Fame cosmos.

There are 45 running backs currently enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Davis is not one of them, but I offer some compelling stats as to why that should change.

He is the only player in the history of pro football, meaning none of the 45 enshrined backs have done this, to have done ALL of the following—

rest - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Saccomano-Davis-deserving-of-Hall-of-Fame-nod/04e8be67-1c51-4e6f-a5c0-9da753e1e4ee

[Ravage!!!]

rest - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Saccomano-Davis-deserving-of-Hall-of-Fame-nod/04e8be67-1c51-4e6f-a5c0-9da753e1e4ee

Man..I LOVED watching him play! He was such a beast. Nice find, TX.

[TXBRONC]

Man..I LOVED watching him play! He was such a beast. Nice find, TX.

I appreciate the props but I didn't find it my friend. :beer:

[Ravage!!!]

I appreciate the props but I didn't find it my friend. :beer:

Doh... GREAT FIND Carol!!!

[BroncoJoe]

So, I guess we find out tonight, right?

[Ravage!!!]

So, I guess we find out tonight, right?

Tonight! Man I'm rooting HARD for TD! TD! TD! TD! TD! :salute:

[BroncoJoe]

Tonight! Man I'm rooting HARD for TD! TD! TD! TD! TD! :salute:

Me too, but am preparing myself to be disappointed.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Article written by an ESPN person

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12254558/terrell-davis-deserves-2015-hall-fame-induction-don-coryell-overdue

[OrangeHoof]

Yes, OB. An opinion can be wrong.

An opinion stated as fact can be wrong. An opinion stated as a personal belief isn't really wrong although it can be misinformed.

I think this is why women like to argue in feelings because feelings can't really be wrong where as facts can be wrong.

[OrangeHoof]

Personally, I think the Hall of Fame is overrepresented by guys who score points. I think that's only natural because those are the guys who make the headlines but it's not a fair representation to be top-heavy with QBs, RBs and WRs.

[Ravage!!!]

An opinion stated as fact can be wrong. An opinion stated as a personal belief isn't really wrong although it can be misinformed.

I think this is why women like to argue in feelings because feelings can't really be wrong where as facts can be wrong.

If an opinion is stated as a fact, then it isn't a statement of opinion, but a statement of fact...and in your example, a wrong one. (like 1 + 1 = 3)

A statement of personal believe is never wrong.. although that opinion can be formed with wrong information. On that note, unlike facts, opinions can always be changed.

[DenBronx]

I really hope they both make it.

Honestly, I could care less about Lynch. Like the guy, but he isn't really a "Bronco".

Ok??? Is that your opinion or a fact?

He gave 100% when he was here.

[Northman]

Im not going to bust Joe's balls on that comment. While i dont mind if Lynch gets in either the most important one is TD for me. I know John gave everything to Denver but i still consider him a Buc so i think that is way i dont care much about his induction either. Best of luck to him though.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 3h

“@ButtFumblerr: I don't like that Lynch has a better shot than Atwater ---- it is what it is. Atwater was Kam Chancellor b4 Kam Chancellor

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 3h

Wishing John Lynch and Terrell Davis the best of luck in HOF voting today. Those two belong in urine-colored jackets, dammit! #Broncos

[Lancane]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 3h

“@ButtFumblerr: I don't like that Lynch has a better shot than Atwater ---- it is what it is. Atwater was Kam Chancellor b4 Kam Chancellor

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 3h

Wishing John Lynch and Terrell Davis the best of luck in HOF voting today. Those two belong in urine-colored jackets, dammit! #Broncos

Steve Atwater, Terrell Davis, Tom Nalen, Karl Mecklenberg, Dan Reeves and Rod Smith all belong in the HOF.

[Simple Jaded]

Gradishar above anyone else.

[Lancane]

Gradishar above anyone else.

Yeah another HOF fubar, Gradishar should have been inducted a decade ago.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Ladainan Tomlinson's case for TD

http://www.nfl.com/videos/super-bowl-live/0ap3000000464898/LaDainian-Tomlinson-speaks-up-for-Terrell-Davis-entry-into-the-Hall-of-Fame

[FanInAZ]

Yeah another HOF fubar, Gradishar should have been inducted a decade ago.

He retired after the '83 season, that means that his 1st year of eligibility would've been '88 or '89. He should've gone in on the 1st ballet.

[Lancane]

He retired after the '83 season, that means that his 1st year of eligibility would've been '88 or '89. He should've gone in on the 1st ballet.

Yeah, and a decade and a haf later he is still not in...that is just wrong.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 10m 10 minutes ago

Jerome Bettis tweets his election to HOF. It's good news for Terrell Davis. Although unlikely TD got elected, Bettis out of way next year

It appears they have already named who was elected???????

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 12m

So far, Ron Wolf and Jerome Bettis elected today to Pro Football Hall of Fame. More selections ahead...

Adam Schefter retweeted
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL · 14m

Congrats to former GM Ron Wolf for making Hall of Fame.

[Davii]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 10m 10 minutes ago

Jerome Bettis tweets his election to HOF. It's good news for Terrell Davis. Although unlikely TD got elected, Bettis out of way next year

It appears they have already named who was elected???????

The ones selected know Carol, the film the honors show before it's on tv. We should know soon...

[Lancane]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 10m 10 minutes ago

Jerome Bettis tweets his election to HOF. It's good news for Terrell Davis. Although unlikely TD got elected, Bettis out of way next year

It appears they have already named who was elected???????

Another snub... How am I not surprised?

[OrangeHoof]

I don't think there will be 2 RBs in one class. But Carol puts a positive spin - at least Bettis is out of the way for next year.

[Lancane]

I don't think there will be 2 RBs in one class. But Carol puts a positive spin - at least Bettis is out of the way for next year.

True... I just get sick of the Broncos being snubbed in regards to the HOF. Was not that long ago that Denver had no one in the Hall despite the teams history.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 52s

Congratulations to Class of 2015: Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown, Charles Haley, Bill Polian, Junior Seau, Will Shields, Mick Tinglehoff, Ron Wolf
0 replies 81 retweets 27 favorites

[7DnBrnc53]

He retired after the '83 season, that means that his 1st year of eligibility would've been '88 or '89. He should've gone in on the 1st ballet.

I wouldn't go that far, but he should have been put in no later than Clinton's first term.


Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 52s

Congratulations to Class of 2015: Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown, Charles Haley, Bill Polian, Junior Seau, Will Shields, Mick Tinglehoff, Ron Wolf
0 replies 81 retweets 27 favorites

Happy for Tim Brown getting in over Marvin "choke artist" Harrison, and Haley deserves it, but Davis got screwed. He should be in over Bettis. If people think that Denver fans have no right to complain about media bias against them, they are crazy. Dr. Z is another prime example. Him not having Steve Atwater as one of the six best safeties of the 90's in SI's The Football Book indicates that he is a big time Bronco hater.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Hopefully, some day they will run out of all other players, and there will only be Bronco players left.

[dogfish]

good lord! didn't expect TD to get in, but bettis over terrell is just a shameful travesty. . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 15m

#HOF class -- Bettis, Brown, Haley, Seau, Shields, Tingelhoff, Polian and Wolf. Terrell Davis and John Lynch did not make cut to 10.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

shannonsharpe
@shannonsharpe

No, none of them won sbs or mvps. "@JasonB35835374: @ShannonSharpe do you think the success other backs had after TD in the "system" has hurt his HOF chances?"

[Simple Jaded]

From what little I've heard Paul Zimmerman is/was by far the biggest Broncos obstacle.

[tomjonesrocks]

I'm so ******* pissed.

TD is my second favorite NFL player of all time. Short of JFE, no one meant more to me. Him bringing home Denver's first Super Bowl after enduring 3 crushing losses was one of the best moments of of my 20s.

TD was a special talent that hit highs plenty of HOFers never saw.

**** the HOF.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Details of the selection process, and the names who make up the Selection Committee:

http://origin-www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 8m

HOF math -- every team has, at minimum, five players it believes are slam dunks -- 5x32 = 160 players (minimum) -- five slots a year...

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 28m

And, yes, I'm pretty aware of the count....Seven Super Bowls for #Broncos, four Hall of Famers.

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 29m

Point of order: For HOF, Tingelhoff was seniors nominee, Polian and Wolf contributers, not considered w/ 15 finalists -- separate votes

[TXBRONC]

good lord! didn't expect TD to get in, but bettis over terrell is just a shameful travesty. . .

Yes it is.

[Ziggy]

Bettis- Pittsburgh Steeler alumni
Davis- Denver Broncos alumni

Hall of fame voting= insane east coast bias. We should have known all along.

[ShaneFalco]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 52s

Congratulations to Class of 2015: Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown, Charles Haley, Bill Polian, Junior Seau, Will Shields, Mick Tinglehoff, Ron Wolf
0 replies 81 retweets 27 favorites

Warner and TD should have been on there. Orlando Pace dominated tackle for a decade.... Complete shame. Charles Haley????Mick Tinglehoff really?
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Gladiator_Thumb_Down_01.gif

[dogfish]

Bettis- Pittsburgh Steeler alumni
Davis- Denver Broncos alumni

Hall of fame voting= insane east coast bias. We should have known all along.

i think most of us probably did. . . i'm not surprised-- just disgusted. . .

[OrangeHoof]

As long as there are more Steelers, Raiders and Cowboys to put in, you can forget the Broncos.

[OrangeHoof]

Tinglehoff is the old-timer candidate and he was a good one. Seau deserves to be in but I hate how his induction will be turned into another discussion about CTEs and concussions. The others - meh.

[ShaneFalco]

Shit needs to be changed. Turning into the MLB hall of fame.

[smith49]

This is a complete failure of the HOF committee!! Not only is TD overdue to be in, but Bettis? Good grief! I could name several much more deserving players over Bettis. Then to pick him over TD just makes me sick. You all know the numbers, how is this possible? Yeah, Bettis was a good back, but he was no TD. And yeah, he played longer, but in his long career he still never achieved the things TD did in his 8 seasons. Call me a homer all you want if you think I'm wrong, but I'll put TD's numbers against The Bus all day long and there is no way you can sway the argument towards Bettis. Such a joke!!!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

PHOENIX — Luckily for the Broncos, they should be hardened to disappointment. Not bronze bust hard, mind you, but skins should be thick.

It was the same ol', same ol' when the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2015 was announced Saturday night. Former Broncos running back Terrell Davis and safety John Lynch were not included.

Worse, neither Bronco made the cutdown from 15 modern-era finalists to 10.

Further rubbing it in is every other AFC West team had one player elected — the late linebacker Junior Seau with the San Diego Chargers, receiver Tim Brown of the Oakland Raiders and Kansas City Chiefs' offensive guard Will Shields.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27435280/former-broncos-terrell-davis-john-lynch-dont-make

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from same article:


The Broncos count just four players in the Hall of Fame — John Elway, Gary Zimmerman, Floyd Little and Shannon Sharpe.

Only the New Orleans Saints (3), Seattle Seahawks (3), Tampa Bay Bucs (3) and Cincinnati Bengals (1) have fewer players enshrined in Canton, Ohio.

Those teams don't approach the Broncos' run of success since 1976. The Broncos have had just six losing seasons in that 39-year span, with 20 playoff appearances, six conference championships and two Super Bowl titles.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27435280/former-broncos-terrell-davis-john-lynch-dont-make

[Poet]

Bettis is a deserving guy for the Hall of Fame. That doesn't mean T.D. isn't...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Darren McKee retweeted
Zach Fortner @Gamod20 · 1h

@dmac1043 @johnpaulsampson td rushed for more yards in 8 playoff games then Bettis did in 8 of his 13 seasons...#ikillyouwithtruth

[7DnBrnc53]

Bettis is a deserving guy for the Hall of Fame. That doesn't mean T.D. isn't...

Yes, but Davis should have been elected before him and Curtis Martin. Davis and Sterling Sharpe should both be in. Heck, Sharpe is more deserving than Marvin Harrison, one of the biggest choke artists in league history.

[dogfish]

Bettis is a deserving guy for the Hall of Fame. That doesn't mean T.D. isn't...

appreciate the sentiment-- not sure that i agree with you. . . i don't neccesarily hate bettis in the HOF, so much. . . but i absolutely can't see him getting inducted over orlando pace. . . i would have taken a number of guys over bettis. . .

[Poet]

The notion that some of the all-time best backs are less deserving than a player who had FOUR relevant seasons in his career -which does not preclude T.D. from being a HoFer- is laughable. The notion that Harrison, one of the best wideouts ever, is somehow less deserving than just about anyone in league history is also laughable. Being jaded that the Hall of Fame is ******* you is fine, but god damn some of you ****s look pretty stupid when you whine like bitches about your players not being in. Holy ****.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos count just four players in the Hall of Fame — John Elway, Gary Zimmerman, Floyd Little and Shannon Sharpe.

Only the New Orleans Saints (3), Seattle Seahawks (3), Tampa Bay Bucs (3) and Cincinnati Bengals (1) have fewer players enshrined in Canton, Ohio.

Those teams don't approach the Broncos' run of success since 1976. The Broncos have had just six losing seasons in that 39-year span, with 20 playoff appearances, six conference championships and two Super Bowl titles.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...ynch-dont-make

These are facts - it is not whining.

[BroncoJoe]

****.

[Poet]

Not exactly what I was referring to...

I'm sorry your didn't get in, but bashing other all-time greats is laughable.

[Pudge]

I don't get how everyone is surprised every year. I knew he wasn't going to make it. If he did I would have been pleasantly surprised

[BroncoJoe]

Not exactly what I was referring to...

I'm sorry your didn't get in, but bashing other all-time greats is laughable.

All going in are deserving. Davis is now going on 10 years since he was eligible. That's what is laughable, King.

I'm resigned to the thought he may never get in.

[Krugan]

Well, im not surprised.

Entirely disappointed that once again this teams greats get overlooked.

Guess all ive got is, **** the halls voters, its a pile of coastal bias....

[chazoe60]

This is sort of a meh class. Charles Haley and Tim Brown should have been in years ago. Bettis gets in not necessarily because he was a great player, because he wasn't, but because he was a good player for a long time. Look at his numbers and sure he looks like a HOFer, but think back about the actual player and he just doesn't strike me as a HOFer from the eye test. Bettis is the anti-TD. I also think Bettis was quite possibly the softest big back I've ever seen, also his stupid dance annoyed the shit out of me especially when he'd do it after a three yard gain.

Will Shields deserved a nod and so did Saeu.

TD not getting in is just expected at this point. Whatever the reason Broncos are just not respected when it comes to HOF inductions. Gradishar is the ultimate snub IMHO. Look at his career and tell me he's not a HOFer. Then there's Atwater, 9 straight probowls IIRC and not even a sniff at the HOF.

Whatever, at this point **** the HOF, it's an incomplete representation of football greatness.

[BroncoJoe]

We all know this, but again:


Davis’ 97.5 yards rushing per game in the regular season is the fourth-highest total in league history among running backs who had rushing attempts in at least 75 games, while his 142.5 yards rushing per game in the postseason is the highest average per game in league history for running backs who had rushing attempts in at least five playoff games. He averaged 5.6 yards per carry in the postseason and his team won seven consecutive postseason games in which he rushed for at least 100 yards.

Overall his teams won 91.7 percent of regular-season and postseason games combined when he rushed for at least 100 yards.

And the only two players in league history to average more than 100 yards rushing per game over their careers in regular-season and postseason games combined are Davis and Jim Brown.

The two players in league history who have won the rushing title and the Super Bowl in the same season are Davis and Emmitt Smith. And 12 players have won the league MVP award and the Super Bowl MVP award over the course of their careers and just three of the 12 are not quarterbacks -- Davis, Smith and Marcus Allen.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/

[MOtorboat]

He was the best player in the league for a period that amounts to 10 percent of league's entire history. Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin were never the best player in the league.

Shit is shit.

[MOtorboat]

Bettis just pisses me off. It's not the Hall of Didn't Get Injured.

[BroncoJoe]

Was it Bettis' first year of eligibility?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Was it Bettis' first year of eligibility?

Just looked it up - he retired in 2006

[MOtorboat]

Here are all the categories Bettis led the league in:

Carries, 1997

[BroncoWave]

Here are all the categories Bettis led the league in:

Carries, 1997

It's pretty stunning when you compare their averages.

Rush YPG: Davis 97.5, Bettis 71.1
Rush TD/game: Davis 0.77, Bettis 0.47
YPC: Davis 4.6, Bettis 3.9
NFL MVP: Davis 1, Bettis 0
Super Bowl MVP: Davis 1, Bettis 0
NFL Rushing Leader: Davis 1, Bettis 0
NFL Rushing TD leader: Davis 2, Bettis 0

Literally the only thing Bettis has is longevity. He was above average for a really long time, and it makes his cumulative stats look impressive. But if you compare their actualy accomplishments and look at things on a per game or per carry basis, it's not even close. Such a total sham.

[Northman]

Warner and TD should have been on there. Orlando Pace dominated tackle for a decade.... Complete shame. Charles Haley????Mick Tinglehoff really?
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Gladiator_Thumb_Down_01.gif

Warner and Pace belong but dont slam Haley, dude was ******* beast.

[chazoe60]

Bettis only averaged 3.9 yards per carry? That's pathetic. Below average. So now below average RBs get into the HOF?

[chazoe60]

Warner and Pace belong but dont slam Haley, dude was ******* beast.

Yeah, Haley and Brown both deserved to be in years ago.

[Northman]

The notion that some of the all-time best backs are less deserving than a player who had FOUR relevant seasons in his career -which does not preclude T.D. from being a HoFer- is laughable. The notion that Harrison, one of the best wideouts ever, is somehow less deserving than just about anyone in league history is also laughable. Being jaded that the Hall of Fame is ******* you is fine, but god damn some of you ****s look pretty stupid when you whine like bitches about your players not being in. Holy ****.

Give your anti-Davis shit a rest already. Talk about whining.

[BroncoWave]

Bettis only averaged 3.9 yards per carry? That's pathetic. Below average. So now below average RBs get into the HOF?

And for a guy who was supposed to be some big bruising goal line back as well, he averaged just under 8 TDs per season. Wholly average. It's too bad Davis didn't have a cool nickname like "The Bus" and play for a really popular team like the Steelers. He would have been in first ballot.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2014 will be enshrined on Saturday. Each day this week, the Around The League crew will pick a player who we believe is also deserving of enshrinement.

Terrell Davis' NFL career took the course of a dazzling firework: rising fast, blooming into a glittery brilliance that coaxed "ahh"s before melting into the night.

As a relatively unknown sixth-round pick, Davis burst into his teammates' consciousness with a monstrous special-teams tackle in a preseason game in Tokyo. This was his blastoff.

From there, the man fittingly known as T.D. put up an outstanding rookie campaign with 1,117 yards and seven touchdowns on just 237 carries. This was his flight.

The next three years, he flourished into that sparkling firefly.

Davis' three consecutive All-Pro seasons:
1996: 1,538 yards, 13 touchdowns
1997: 1,750 yards, 15 touchdowns, Super Bowl MVP
1998; 2,008 yards, 21 touchdowns, NFL MVP, Super Bowl champion

After compiling four seasons that compare to any running back to open a career, injuries caused Davis -- in a puff -- to disappear like our celebrated firework, playing just 16 games during his final three seasons.

On this final fact sits the only semblance of reason Davis does not yet own a bust in the Hall of Fame. This argument, however, is abjectly deficient, patently lazy and cracks like an iPhone screen under pressure.

Since when has the magnificence of the loud boom been subject to the standards of the long wheeze?

The most heinous transgression in T.D.'s Hall of Fame candidacy is that in the seven years he has been eligible, the running back hasn't even made it down to the final 15. This means voters haven't even had the opportunity to discuss his merits.

This is like John F. Kennedy not making it out of the presidential primary -- only if it happened seven times.

Twelve players have won both Super Bowl MVP and regular season AP MVP awards in their careers. Seven of the eight eligible for the Hall have been elected: Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Marcus Allen, Emmitt Smith, John Elway and Steve Young.

Only Davis remains on the outside. And he can't even get in the debate room!

AND


It's not called the Hall of Longevity. It's not called the Hall of Cumulative Stats. It's called the Hall of Fame. And for that brief, shimmering period, Terrell Davis lit up NFL skies as much as anyone with a bust.

full article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000372268/article/why-terrell-davis-belongs-in-the-hall-of-fame

[7DnBrnc53]

The notion that some of the all-time best backs are less deserving than a player who had FOUR relevant seasons in his career -which does not preclude T.D. from being a HoFer- is laughable. The notion that Harrison, one of the best wideouts ever, is somehow less deserving than just about anyone in league history is also laughable. Being jaded that the Hall of Fame is ******* you is fine, but god damn some of you ****s look pretty stupid when you whine like bitches about your players not being in. Holy ****.

Harrison was good, but overrated. Peyton Manning made him to a certain degree. He was one of the biggest chokers in postseason history.

And, I think that TD and Bettis both should be in (I like both players), and they both should have been in before Curtis Martin, but TD should have been in before Bettis.

[Northman]

Harrison was good, but overrated. Peyton Manning made him to a certain degree. He was one of the biggest chokers in postseason history.

And, I think that TD and Bettis both should be in (I like both players), and they both should have been in before Curtis Martin, but TD should have been in before Bettis.

Im not totally against your idea that Manning made Harrison but what are you referring too when talking about him being a choker? Was there a specific play you are talking about or what? I admit i cant remember a lot of the Colts postseason games but you've mentioned him being a choker many times here so im trying to understand what you are referring too.

[MOtorboat]

It's pretty stunning when you compare their averages.

Rush YPG: Davis 97.5, Bettis 71.1
Rush TD/game: Davis 0.77, Bettis 0.47
YPC: Davis 4.6, Bettis 3.9
NFL MVP: Davis 1, Bettis 0
Super Bowl MVP: Davis 1, Bettis 0
NFL Rushing Leader: Davis 1, Bettis 0
NFL Rushing TD leader: Davis 2, Bettis 0

Literally the only thing Bettis has is longevity. He was above average for a really long time, and it makes his cumulative stats look impressive. But if you compare their actualy accomplishments and look at things on a per game or per carry basis, it's not even close. Such a total sham.

AP All-NFL Selections: Davis 3, Bettis 2.

That right there is the telling one. 13 seasons, 2 All-Pros. Davis got named to three straight.

[Poet]

Give your anti-Davis shit a rest already. Talk about whining.

If you think it's anti-Davis you're not getting it. Get it.

[MOtorboat]

Career awards:
Terrell Davis:
1996 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year
1997 NFL Super Bowl MVP
1998 NFL AP MVP
1998 NFL PFWA MVP
1998 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year
Pro Football Hall of Fame 2nd team All-1990s Team

Curtis Martin:
1995 NFL AP Offensive Rookie of the Year

Jerome Bettis:
1993 NFL AP Offensive Rookie of the Year
1996 NFL AP Comeback Player of the Year
2001 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year

[TXBRONC]

i think most of us probably did. . . i'm not surprised-- just disgusted. . .

Yep. I'm not surprised just disgusted. :mad:

[MOtorboat]

I compiled the best four consecutive seasons for the Top 20 rushers in NFL history (by yardage), along with the Hall of Famers between the Top 20 and Davis at No. 53, along with Jamal Lewis and Adrian Peterson because they are both 2,000 yard guys (Although Peterson's best four consecutive years doesn't include his 2,000 yard season).

Only five players had a better four-year stretch in NFL history. All are in the Hall of Fame. Terrell Davis, Adrian Peterson and LaDainian Tomlinson are the only three of the Top 10 who aren't in the Hall, and both Peterson and Tomlinson will be. Tomlinson on first ballot.

Martin is 12th and Bettis 16th. Jamal Lewis ranks higher than both.


Player Year Tm G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb
Barry Sanders 1994-1997 DET 64 64 1287 6989 40 85 5.4 109.2 20.1 149 1133 7.6 5 66 2.3 17.7 8122 45 10
Eric Dickerson 1983-1986 RAM 62 62 1465 6968 55 85 4.8 112.4 23.6 118 874 7.4 2 37 1.9 14.1 7842 57 49
Earl Campbell 1978-1981 OTI 62 61 1404 6457 55 81 4.6 104.1 22.6 75 345 4.6 0 46 1.2 5.6 6802 55 31
Emmitt Smith 1992-1995 DAL 61 60 1401 6456 73 68 4.6 105.8 23 228 1465 6.4 3 86 3.7 24 7921 76 16
O.J. Simpson 1973-1976 BUF 56 55 1221 6448 39 88 5.3 115.1 21.8 71 944 13.3 9 64 1.3 16.9 7392 48 27
Terrell Davis 1995-1998 DEN 61 61 1343 6413 56 71 4.8 105.1 22 38 152 1181 7.8 5 35 2.5 19.4 7594 61 16
Walter Peyton 1977-1980 CHI 62 62 1358 6317 45 76 4.7 101.9 21.9 154 1429 9.3 5 75 2.5 23 7746 50 28
Tomlinson 2004-2007 SDG 63 63 1341 6086 78 85 4.5 96.6 21.3 309 220 1794 8.2 9 74 3.5 28.5 7880 87 11
Jim Brown 1962-1965 CLE 56 56 1090 5849 49 80 5.4 104.4 19.5 141 1453 10.3 14 83 2.5 25.9 7302 63 28
Adrian Peterson 2007-2010 MIN 61 54 1198 5782 52 80 4.8 94.8 19.6 174 119 1170 9.8 2 63 2 19.2 6952 54 21
Jamal Lewis 2000-2004 RAV 60 52 1239 5763 33 82 4.7 96.1 20.7 146 110 1059 9.6 1 77 1.8 17.7 6822 34 24
Curtis Martin 2001-2004 NYJ 64 64 1288 5612 31 56 4.4 87.7 20.1 221 185 1189 6.4 2 29 2.9 18.6 6801 33 6
Thurman Thomas 1990-1993 BUF 63 63 1226 5506 33 80 4.5 87.4 19.5 217 2176 10 10 63 3.4 34.5 7682 43 23
Edgerrin James 2003-2006 CLT,CRD 60 60 1341 5472 39 43 4.1 91.2 22.4 242 184 1329 7.2 1 56 3.1 22.2 6801 40 16
Marshall Faulk 1998-2001 CLT,RAM 60 55 1090 5441 43 71 5 90.7 18.2 425 337 3551 10.5 26 78 5.6 59.2 8992 69 8
Jerome Bettis 1996-1999 PIT 62 58 1310 5372 28 50 4.1 86.6 21.1 51 74 432 5.8 2 26 1.2 7 5804 30 17
Tony Dorsett 1978-1981 DAL 61 60 1160 5263 28 75 4.5 86.3 19 148 1341 9.1 5 91 2.4 22 6604 33 39
Corey Dillon 1999-2002 CIN 63 59 1232 5261 29 96 4.3 83.5 19.6 197 126 974 7.7 4 31 2 15.5 6235 33 17
Frank Gore 2006-2009 SFO 59 59 1041 4953 29 80 4.8 83.9 17.6 296 209 1700 8.1 7 48 3.5 28.8 6653 36 20
Jim Taylor 1960-1963 GNB 53 0 993 4900 54 53 4.9 92.5 18.7 75 470 6.3 2 27 1.4 8.9 5370 56 17
Fred Taylor 2002-2005 JAX 57 57 1086 4897 19 71 4.5 85.9 19.1 207 146 1206 8.3 2 72 2.6 21.2 6103 21 12
Steven Jackson 2009-2012 RAM 62 62 1172 4847 19 58 4.1 78.2 18.9 248 177 1359 7.7 1 50 2.9 21.9 6206 20 5
Marcus Allen 1983-1986 RAI 61 57 1129 4700 38 61 4.2 77 18.5 245 2356 9.6 12 92 4 38.6 7056 50 32
Franco Harris 1975-1978 PIT 58 58 1161 4618 43 61 4 79.6 20 84 571 6.8 1 44 1.4 9.8 5189 44 31
Larry Czonka 1970-1973 MIA 56 56 820 4045 24 53 4.9 72.2 14.6 36 277 7.7 1 54 0.6 4.9 4322 25 8
John Riggins 1981-1984 WAS 52 41 1074 3853 54 44 3.6 74.1 20.7 28 181 6.5 0 22 0.5 3.5 4034 54 15
Joe Perry 1952-1955 SFO 47 0 679 3493 28 78 5.1 74.3 14.4 79 530 6.7 4 70 1.7 11.3 4023 32 26


Sham.

[chazoe60]

All you need to know to realize that the HOF is a joke is that Lynn Swan was in and they still made Art Monk wait 8 years from his first eligible year and they made Tim Brown wait 6. It's a ******* joke.

[Poet]

It's pretty telling that you have to go to a four year stretch in order for your argument to work. That's sort of the point, the four year stretch doesn't preclude him, or shouldn't, in a meaningful sense, preclude him from the Hall of Fame. But, it's pretty hard to non-Bronco fans to justify putting him ahead of guys who retired in the top ten for rushing. A big part of that argument for hitting the Hall of Fame for TD is his 2k yard season, but no one is clamoring for Chris Johnson or Jamal Lewis to get in, and there's a reason for that.

[chazoe60]

The best argument for putting TD in is the comparison to Gale Sayers.

[MOtorboat]

The best argument for putting TD in is the comparison to Gale Sayers.

Earl Campbell is also a good comp.

[MOtorboat]

It's pretty telling that you have to go to a four year stretch in order for your argument to work. That's sort of the point, the four year stretch doesn't preclude him, or shouldn't, in a meaningful sense, preclude him from the Hall of Fame. But, it's pretty hard to non-Bronco fans to justify putting him ahead of guys who retired in the top ten for rushing. A big part of that argument for hitting the Hall of Fame for TD is his 2k yard season, but no one is clamoring for Chris Johnson or Jamal Lewis to get in, and there's a reason for that.

One stat. Career rushing.

Terrell Davis has an MVP, a Super Bowl MVP, 2,000 yards , 3 All Pro selections and he was the most dominant player for 10 percent of the league's existence.

Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin have one stat, totally dependent on not getting injured and that's their only claim to the Hall.

Jamal Lewis and Chris Johnson weren't as dominant in four years, don't have MVP awards, haven't won a Super Bowl MVP and don't own playoff records.

[Poet]

One stat. Career rushing.

Terrell Davis has an MVP, a Super Bowl MVP, 2,000 yards , 3 All Pro selections and he was the most dominant player for 10 percent of the league's existence.

Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin have one stat, totally dependent on not getting injured and that's their only claim to the Hall.

Running backs run the ball as a professional. Bettis ranks in the top ten all time for rushing TD's and has a ring as well. Martin is on that list as well. Martin also has the longest string of 1k yard seasons in NFL history, and if you try to tell me that doesn't matter then I'm sorry. Martin's four All Pro's are also not something that you should throw away either.

Oh, btw, just for a frame of reference, Bettis, upon his retirment, was in the top 20 all time for yards from scrimmage. But yeah, that guy's career totally pales in comparison to a running back who was relevant for four years, which again, doesn't preclude him from the HoF.

[BroncoWave]

Hey King, what year was Bettis bar-none, without debate, the best running back in football? Just one year in which that was the case will do.

[MOtorboat]

Running backs run the ball as a professional. Bettis ranks in the top ten all time for rushing TD's and has a ring as well. Martin is on that list as well. Martin also has the longest string of 1k yard seasons in NFL history, and if you try to tell me that doesn't matter then I'm sorry. Martin's four All Pro's are also not something that you should throw away either.

Oh, btw, just for a frame of reference, Bettis, upon his retirment, was in the top 20 all time for yards from scrimmage. But yeah, that guy's career totally pales in comparison to a running back who was relevant for four years, which again, doesn't preclude him from the HoF.

When did Martin get 4 All-Pro selections? He has two. Davis has 3.

It's not the Hall of Didn't Get Injured.

[MOtorboat]

My bad. Martin had 1, Davis has 3.

[BroncoWave]

When did Martin get 4 All-Pro selections? He has two. Davis has 3.

It's not the Hall of Didn't Get Injured.

The hall of above average for a really long time!

[7DnBrnc53]

Im not totally against your idea that Manning made Harrison but what are you referring too when talking about him being a choker? Was there a specific play you are talking about or what? I admit i cant remember a lot of the Colts postseason games but you've mentioned him being a choker many times here so im trying to understand what you are referring too.

There were several times that Harrison messed up in the playoffs:

1999: Harrison had a big drop late in the third against the Titans that would have kept a drive alive.

2000: Against the Dolphins in the Wild Card game, Harrison had a key drop, and a key offensive pass interference against him.

2003: Had a big fumble at the end of the half against the Patriots that cost his team three points.

2007: On their first drive against the Chargers in the Divisional Round, Manning leads the Colts to a TD with no passes to Harrison. After a Kelvin Hayden INT, they have another promising drive, but when Harrison catches the first pass thrown to him, he fumbles.

Harrison only had two career playoff TD catches. Both of those came against Denver in the 2003 Wild Card Game.

Here is a good article about the overrated Harrison: http://www.sungazette.com/page/blogs.detail/display/466/The-Vastly-Overrated-Marvin-Harrison.html


When did Martin get 4 All-Pro selections? He has two. Davis has 3.

It's not the Hall of Didn't Get Injured.

Oh, dear. And the HOF voters get exposed again. TD and Bettis should have been in before Martin.

I also like the "Hall of Didn't Get Injured" part. Very funny!!

[Poet]

Diminishing those guys to "Hall of didn't get injured' is a travesty. Dismissing those accomplishments those guys had in totality and acting like they don't matter is a absurd. Those guys were great running backs for a very long time, and upon their retirement they were instant locks for the Hall of Fame. There's something about being some of the best guys in their era for a long time and racking up successful season...after season...after season...after season...after season...after season...after season that just seems to really matter.

Unless, of course, your a jaded Denver fan.

[BroncoWave]

Diminishing those guys to "Hall of didn't get injured' is a travesty. Dismissing those accomplishments those guys had in totality and acting like they don't matter is a absurd. Those guys were great running backs for a very long time, and upon their retirement they were instant locks for the Hall of Fame. There's something about being some of the best guys in their era for a long time and racking up successful season...after season...after season...after season...after season...after season...after season that just seems to really matter.

Unless, of course, your a jaded Denver fan.

What year was Jerome Bettis the BEST running back in the NFL?

[Poet]

Im not totally against your idea that Manning made Harrison but what are you referring too when talking about him being a choker? Was there a specific play you are talking about or what? I admit i cant remember a lot of the Colts postseason games but you've mentioned him being a choker many times here so im trying to understand what you are referring too.

I believe the man at one point had more drops in the first half against the Patriots in one half of a playoff game than he had in the entire regular season.

I'll try to find a link for that.

[Dapper Dan]

If TD blows his brains out, he'll get in.

[MOtorboat]

Diminishing those guys to "Hall of didn't get injured' is a travesty. Dismissing those accomplishments those guys had in totality and acting like they don't matter is a absurd. Those guys were great running backs for a very long time, and upon their retirement they were instant locks for the Hall of Fame. There's something about being some of the best guys in their era for a long time and racking up successful season...after season...after season...after season...after season...after season...after season that just seems to really matter.

Unless, of course, your a jaded Denver fan.

Bettis was good for a long time. Davis was great.

I hate to bring Martin into the conversations n because of his consecutive 1,000 yards streak, but he was never the best player in football and he was never the best running back in a single year. Davis was.

[BroncoWave]

I have another question for you King. If you had to win one game to save your life, do you take Davis, Bettis, or Martin in their primes?

[chazoe60]

The hall of above average for a really long time!

actually below average if you look at his YPC.

[7DnBrnc53]

I have another question for you King. If you had to win one game to save your life, do you take Davis, Bettis, or Martin in their primes?

My answer: Not Martin.

[Poet]

I have another question for you King. If you had to win one game to save your life, do you take Davis, Bettis, or Martin in their primes?

Who are they playing against, and what year are they in their career? Because if it's the fifth, sixth, seventh, or first year of TD's career I might end up picking Bettis or Martin. Then again, if it's the fourth year of his career, I might take Davis.

[BroncoWave]

Who are they playing against, and what year are they in their career? Because if it's the fifth, sixth, seventh, or first year of TD's career I might end up picking Bettis or Martin. Then again, if it's the fourth year of his career, I might take Davis.

Note, my post said "In their primes". So assume they are all at the best point of their abilities. And who they are playing is irrelevant. You just have to pick one to win a game with, the team they are playing it totally random.

[Poet]

Note, my post said "In their primes". So assume they are all at the best point of their abilities. And who they are playing is irrelevant. You just have to pick one to win a game with, the team they are playing it totally random.

Who they are playing is very relevant but if it's in their prime than of course it's Davis. That's a pretty self-serving question though. If I ask you to pick a guy out of that list to be great for your team for a long time -I don't want to hear about how banging out 1100 yard seasons weren't great seasons back then either- you can't pick Davis.

We're just flexing our muscles here on the most obvious points of the argument.

[BroncoWave]

Who they are playing is very relevant but if it's in their prime than of course it's Davis. That's a pretty self-serving question though. If I ask you to pick a guy out of that list to be great for your team for a long time -I don't want to hear about how banging out 1100 yard seasons weren't great seasons back then either- you can't pick Davis.

We're just flexing our muscles here on the most obvious points of the argument.

I think it would be more self-serving to specify a team they are playing. Then we could just each pick a team that our guy matches up better against. By randomizing the team, you just have to pick the best player. And you seem to be admitting that Davis is the best player of those 3. That's all we are saying.

[MOtorboat]

Davis is quite clearly the better of the three, but he got hurt. The other two did not.

[Poet]

He was better than they were for about three years. Yeah. Yup.

But for self-serving, matchups matter. If my life is on the line, I want the full scoop.

[Poet]

You're right Mo, he was better, but he got hurt, and then they had a better career than he did. Because they ended up on the top ten list for all-time rushers. "But King, he had more yards than they did in any stretch of their careers!"

"Yes, he did, but then they had a more yards than almost any other RB in the history of the entire game."

And again, the four year career doesn't remove or preclude him from the conversation, but it matters. A lot.

[MOtorboat]

But King, they played 13 years and made 1 All-Pro team. Davis played 8 and made 3.

But King, Davis won an MVP and a Super Bowl MVP and set playoff records. The other two never won either.

[MOtorboat]

Terrell Davis remains the greatest post season back in league history. Fatass Bettis got a ring because Roethlisberger was a stud for a day.

[Poet]

But King, they played 13 years and made 1 All-Pro team. Davis played 8 and made 3.

But King, Davis won an MVP and a Super Bowl MVP and set playoff records. The other two never won either.

But Mo, Dexter Jackson, Malcolm Smith, Deion Branch, and Mark Rypien won SB MVP's!

But Mo, you're only counting first team all-pros, which again, is really convenient for your argument.

[Poet]

Terrell Davis remains the greatest post season back in league history. Fatass Bettis got a ring because Roethlisberger was a stud for a day.

Uhh..Mo...Bettis got it in 2005. That SB Roethlisberger had one of the worst performances for a QB in SB history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XL

[MOtorboat]

But Mo, Dexter Jackson, Malcolm Smith, Deion Branch, and Mark Rypien won SB MVP's!

But Mo, you're only counting first team all-pros, which again, is really convenient for your argument.

Yeah. I mean, you're right, the best of the best shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. The second-teamers should be.

[Poet]

Yeah. I mean, you're right, the best of the best shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. The second-teamers should be.

It would be really awesome for you if that's what my words meant or that's what I said.

Oh man, if only that were the case.

[MOtorboat]

Uhh..Mo...Bettis got it in 2005. That SB Roethlisberger had one of the worst performances for a QB in SB history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XL

He had 43 yards on 14 carries and zero TDs. Um. You should probably retract that.

[Poet]

He had 43 yards on 14 carries and zero TDs. Um. You should probably retract that.

He was an old as **** running back who played almost solely in short yardage situations as the primary back was Willie Parker. At least I didn't seem to think that Bettis won the game off of the back of the QB who threw two picks, no TD's, and completed 123 yards off of nine completions and 23 attempts. Because that would be a really funny mistake to make when bashing a "fatass," RB who needed his QB to carry him. Especially since for most of his career he was carrying pretty average QB's like Maddox and Kordell Stewart into the playoffs. But I'm not one to judge.

[BroncoWave]

He was an old as **** running back who played almost solely in short yardage situations as the primary back was Willie Parker. At least I didn't seem to think that Bettis won the game off of the back of the QB who threw two picks, no TD's, and completed 123 yards off of nine completions and 23 attempts. Because that would be a really funny mistake to make when bashing a "fatass," RB who needed his QB to carry him. Especially since for most of his career he was carrying pretty average QB's like Maddox and Kordell Stewart into the playoffs. But I'm not one to judge.

Yeah, those defenses had nothing to do with getting Pitt into the playoffs, right?

[MOtorboat]

He was an old as **** running back who played almost solely in short yardage situations as the primary back was Willie Parker. At least I didn't seem to think that Bettis won the game off of the back of the QB who threw two picks, no TD's, and completed 123 yards off of nine completions and 23 attempts. Because that would be a really funny mistake to make when bashing a "fatass," RB who needed his QB to carry him. Especially since for most of his career he was carrying pretty average QB's like Maddox and Kordell Stewart into the playoffs. But I'm not one to judge.

Alright, he needed a better back to carry him. My bad, I forgot which Steelers Super Bowl he won.

Meanwhile Terrell Davis won a Super Bowl MVP award.

[Poet]

How can you get mad at an old back for needing help after taking great amounts of abuse for his career when the guy you rep was so fragile and frail and he couldn't withstand a quarter of the punishment that Bettis did?

Now in reality -where Mo is not operating from right now because he's being a pissy little fanboy- that characterization of T.D. is offensive and stupid because he tore his ACL and at that time an ACL was a death sentence for a career. But, it's in line with the thinking and formation of history that Mo is proffering up.

But yes, T.D. did win the same vaunted award that the great Dexter Jackson and Malcolm Jenkins won.

[MOtorboat]

How about the league MVP award? How about that one?

Did Dexter Jackson win that one too? Jerome Bettis didn't.

[Poet]

Oh, now we have to move on to another awards. Gee, bad argument is bad. Glad you moved on, Mo. Davis won an MVP during a very impressive three year stint in the NFL. But then again that doesn't amount to an entire career or anything. Oh crap, for your stance is almost has to.

Davis would be in my Hall of Fame. He's a borderline guy.

[MOtorboat]

Oh, now we have to move on to another awards. Gee, bad argument is bad. Glad you moved on, Mo. Davis won an MVP during a very impressive three year stint in the NFL. But then again that doesn't amount to an entire career or anything. Oh crap, for your stance is almost has to.

Davis would be in my Hall of Fame. He's a borderline guy.

Well, if these awards are so trivial, how come Martin and Bettis won none of them? In 26 combined years in the NFL, neither won an MVP or a Super Bowl MVP. If these things are so trivial, I'd imagine you'd have a good excuse for that.

[Poet]

It's not a trivial accomplishment. It just doesn't constitute a career. Trying to put words in my mouth?

#mostyledonhimself

[MOtorboat]

It's not a trivial accomplishment. It just doesn't constitute a career. Trying to put words in my mouth?

#mostyledonhimself

Hall of Never Got Injured.

A career of 3.9 yards per carry is greatness...

[Northman]

Oh, more hate on Davis by King. Shocker there.....

[Poet]

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's hate. I'm not accountable for your inability to read well.

[Poet]

Hall of Never Got Injured.

A career of 3.9 yards per carry is greatness...

A long term short yardage power RB lasting that long, winning a ring, being one of the best rushers of his era. If Bettis was a Bronco and he wasn't in the Hall and Davis was a Steeler and he was in you'd be screaming bloody murder.

Put Davis in the hall baby, King ain't mad at that.

[BroncoWave]

A long term short yardage power RB lasting that long, winning a ring, being one of the best rushers of his era. If Bettis was a Bronco and he wasn't in the Hall and Davis was a Steeler and he was in you'd be screaming bloody murder.

Put Davis in the hall baby, King ain't mad at that.

I can't speak for mo but I wouldn't be screaming bloody murder in that case. I see Bettis as vary similar to Rod Smith. His cumulative stats stack up with the best of all time, but it was more of a product of him being decent for a really long time than of being an all time great.

[Poet]

BW, he faced a lot of stacked boxes with average QB's. I think that matters. Then again, I wouldn't really care if a Steeler didn't get in. But, when 1k yardage was a big deal, he was doing it as the focal point of the offense and ended up sixth all-time on that list.

[MOtorboat]

BW, he faced a lot of stacked boxes with average QB's. I think that matters. Then again, I wouldn't really care if a Steeler didn't get in. But, when 1k yardage was a big deal, he was doing it as the focal point of the offense and ended up sixth all-time on that list.

Davis and Bettis were contemporaries and Davis was running for far more yards.

[Poet]

When did Davis rush for more and less yards than Bettis?

[Lancane]

A long term short yardage power RB lasting that long, winning a ring, being one of the best rushers of his era. If Bettis was a Bronco and he wasn't in the Hall and Davis was a Steeler and he was in you'd be screaming bloody murder.

Put Davis in the hall baby, King ain't mad at that.

Actually King, if Bettis was a Bronco and Davis was a Steeler and Davis was snubbed in favor of Bettis I'd still be questioning the decision. How freaking shallow do you think we are? Fact is that Davis was despite his short career during that time was one of the greatest backs in the NFL.

[Poet]

When it comes to the Hall of Fame you guys are pretty shallow.

[Lancane]

When it comes to the Hall of Fame you guys are pretty shallow.

And your showing real class with how you're acting? We're not shallow...point in fact that several Hall of Fame players have mentioned the snubs of Gradishar, Davis and Atwater time and again...but I guess they are shallow as well?

[GEM]

I love King like a fat kid loves cake, but even he can be wrong sometimes....well it's sometimes bitches! Not sure why King gets a hard on discrediting Davis, but he always has and always will.

[Northman]

I love King like a fat kid loves cake, but even he can be wrong sometimes....well it's sometimes bitches! Not sure why King gets a hard on discrediting Davis, but he always has and always will.

Yeeeeep. Love him to death but he couldnt be more wrong here.

[Buff]

Davis was such a far superior back to Bettis at every point of their careers.

[Mike]

Hall of Longevity and Average. Take Davis out of the argument and Bettis still shouldn't be in the HOF.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Davis was a better running back than Bettis, but Bettis had a longer career, and unfortunately that matters to the voters. I can't really argue with Bettis getting in. I can however argue with Davis, Atwater, Karl M., and Randy G., not getting in. The whole process is so subjective and biased it's disgusting. Tim Brown should have been a first ballot HOF'er. He was the best receiver in the AFC for almost a decade. Cris Carter should have been elected on the first ballot as well. Then you get this long list of players from the east coast that are not the equivalent of the players I mentioned, yet they're in the HOF.

It's a slap in the face to the integrity of the league, what there's left of it anyway.

[Poet]

Terrell Davis also ran like a girl and shit on puppies.

[Lancane]

Terrell Davis also ran like a girl and shit on puppies.

You're right, he is better then Ki-Jana Carter! :beer:

;)

[Poet]

Those old wounds still sting.

He's a Hall of Famer, but he's gotta take a backseat to those with a more developed career. That's really about as fair as it gets. Sorry boys and girls.

[Lancane]

Those old wounds still sting.

He's a Hall of Famer, but he's gotta take a backseat to those with a more developed career. That's really about as fair as it gets. Sorry boys and girls.

So you think Corey Dillon belongs in the HOF over Terrell Davis? Longevity means little in place of accomplishment, according to you then Kurt Warner is not HOF worthy either.

[Poet]

So you think Corey Dillon belongs in the HOF over Terrell Davis? Longevity means little in place of accomplishment, according to you then Kurt Warner is not HOF worthy either.

Dillon didn't have enough yardage to be HOF worthy and Warner isn't a guy that is deserving to me. Yeah, he was brilliant for awhile, then he sucked for a long time, then he got good again. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WarnKu00.htm

He had like what, three or four really special seasons? That's not an all-time great QB. I mean that's disgusting.

[Dapper Dan]

Most Hall of Fames are jokes. Anyone above average eventually gets in.

[Poet]

You're right, T.D. wasn't even above average for a career, totally undeserving. Best argument goes to DB.

[G_Money]

I love TD more than practically any RB in history, but his career was just too short. He had 4 impact years. Well, a really good rookie start and 3 impact years, technically. Ray Rice has the same # of 2000+ yards from scrimmage seasons that TD has. Jamal Lewis had a 2000 yard season (10,000 for his career). When you start taking a career down to needing just a 3 year peak to be a HOFer, a lot of players get added to the discussion who have no business being there.

Davis needed more time, and sadly for both us and him he did not get it. The only full-time RB with fewer games played than TD who is in the hall is Gale Sayers (sympathy vote) and TD is short of the NEXT guy by something like 25% of his games played. It's not a couple games. TD needed 2, 3 more GOOD seasons, IMO. If he eventually gets in, I'll be thrilled for him and the Broncos, but you can't just go handing out HOF passes to every comet that blasts through the NFL. Longevity DOES mean something. Would TD have gotten their without that stupid interception and knee injury? Almost certainly.

But things happen. He has solace in his 2 Super Bowl rings.

There's no such excuse for Gradishar or Atwater, however. That shit is ridiculous.

[Poet]

G, they goin' hate you. But I'll take the hate for you. BTW I'm back on my book you inspirational monster, you!

[G_Money]

LOL well I'm not another team's fan. I'm a Broncos fan AND a Davis fan - I just don't think he qualifies, through no fault of his own (thanks Lepsis). He had HOF seasons, but not a HOF career. If nobody else wants to take that side, I'm okay with standing out on that island. I'm just thankful we had him when we had him. Those trophies mean more than a bronze bust ever will.

[Northman]

G Money is wrong too. Its not like his shit dont stink.

[G_Money]

My shit smells like fresh flowers and morning dew.

[Dapper Dan]

You're right, T.D. wasn't even above average for a career, totally undeserving. Best argument goes to DB.

By their standards, I think TD deserves in. What I think a HoF should be? I don't think half of the guys deserve in, TD and Bettis included. Jerome Bettis was never a great player.

[Dreadnought]

Bettis just pisses me off. It's not the Hall of Didn't Get Injured.

Abso-freakin-lutely. Bettis was never great even in his prime. He was good. For a short run he was even very good. I wouldn't however even rank him in the top five during his playing days. Gawd this pisses me off.

[TXBRONC]

My shit smells like fresh flowers and morning dew.

Not in this plain of existence.

[NightTrainLayne]

I love TD more than practically any RB in history, but his career was just too short. He had 4 impact years. Well, a really good rookie start and 3 impact years, technically. Ray Rice has the same # of 2000+ yards from scrimmage seasons that TD has. Jamal Lewis had a 2000 yard season (10,000 for his career). When you start taking a career down to needing just a 3 year peak to be a HOFer, a lot of players get added to the discussion who have no business being there.

Davis needed more time, and sadly for both us and him he did not get it. The only full-time RB with fewer games played than TD who is in the hall is Gale Sayers (sympathy vote) and TD is short of the NEXT guy by something like 25% of his games played. It's not a couple games. TD needed 2, 3 more GOOD seasons, IMO. If he eventually gets in, I'll be thrilled for him and the Broncos, but you can't just go handing out HOF passes to every comet that blasts through the NFL. Longevity DOES mean something. Would TD have gotten their without that stupid interception and knee injury? Almost certainly.

But things happen. He has solace in his 2 Super Bowl rings.

There's no such excuse for Gradishar or Atwater, however. That shit is ridiculous.


LOL well I'm not another team's fan. I'm a Broncos fan AND a Davis fan - I just don't think he qualifies, through no fault of his own (thanks Lepsis). He had HOF seasons, but not a HOF career. If nobody else wants to take that side, I'm okay with standing out on that island. I'm just thankful we had him when we had him. Those trophies mean more than a bronze bust ever will.

I tend to agree with what you say G.

That being said, how do you feel about Bettis' inductment? Separate issue, not in relation to Davis, just do you feel Bettis is deserving?

[aberdien]

If Bettis gets in, TD has to get in eventually.

[MOtorboat]

if bettis gets in, td should already be in.

fify

[G_Money]

No, I don't think Bettis should be in. Classic 4 yards and a cloud of dust back. He was big, and strong, and very durable for a big back, but the guy had what, 3 or 4 really good seasons? Davis eclipsed Jerome's high-water mark for yards-from-scrimmage THREE times and TD only basically had a 4 year career.

But the Hall has shown their preference for durability at the position. It's the shortest-lived career of any position, so if you stick around there for 10 or 12 years, cranking out 1000 yard seasons (not a measurement that means what it used to on the field, btw, but obviously holds voting sway) then the Hall voters will reward your counting stats. Ask Curtis Martin.

If the Hall took away longevity for RBs but also didn't allow for short-term greatness, there would be only one or two RBs in the hall a generation. Maybe that's the way it should be, but I don't hate that Bettis is in. I don't consider it a travesty.

I just wouldn't have voted for the dude.

[Dreadnought]

No, I don't think Bettis should be in. Classic 4 yards and a cloud of dust back. He was big, and strong, and very durable for a big back, but the guy had what, 3 or 4 really good seasons? Davis eclipsed Jerome's high-water mark for yards-from-scrimmage THREE times and TD only basically had a 4 year career.

But the Hall has shown their preference for durability at the position. It's the shortest-lived career of any position, so if you stick around there for 10 or 12 years, cranking out 1000 yard seasons (not a measurement that means what it used to on the field, btw, but obviously holds voting sway) then the Hall voters will reward your counting stats. Ask Curtis Martin.

If the Hall took away longevity for RBs but also didn't allow for short-term greatness, there would be only one or two RBs in the hall a generation. Maybe that's the way it should be, but I don't hate that Bettis is in. I don't consider it a travesty.

I just wouldn't have voted for the dude.

I hate that Bettis is in. It is a travesty. There are already too many damned Steelers in there that don't deserve to be, and they just added to it.

[G_Money]

Can't argue with the fact that there are too many Steelers, dread. That's a fact.

[chazoe60]

The worst is Lynn Swan. He is arguably the least deserving HOFer in Canton. 336 career receptions, that's 3 seasons of work in today's NFL, I realize it was a different era but not by that much. The fact that Swan is in but Rod Smith will never get a sniff is ridiculous.

[Dreadnought]

Can't argue with the fact that there are too many Steelers, dread. That's a fact.

Including (but not limited to) one mediocrity of a bald headed Goober that occupied the QB position whilst his defense won him 4 Superbowl Rings

[TXBRONC]

The worst is Lynn Swan. He is arguably the least deserving HOFer in Canton. 336 career receptions, that's 3 seasons of work in today's NFL, I realize it was a different era but not by that much. The fact that Swan is in but Rod Smith will never get a sniff is ridiculous.

It seems the voters move the goal posts depending on whose's eligible.