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Denver Native (Carol)
12-29-2014, 12:19 PM
Nobody calls John Fox a mastermind.

As the Broncos seek a Super Bowl ring, is Fox more a help or a hindrance?

Within the borders of Broncos Country, Fox's value to the team is often ranked somewhere between Miles the mascot and the scoreboard operator.

So I ask: How many other coaches in team history have won four consecutive division titles, with quarterbacks as varied as Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow?

Not Red Miller. Not Dan Reeves. Not Mike Shanahan.

So why doesn't Fox get more respect?

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_27220204/kiszla-is-coach-john-fox-help-or-hindrance

Denver Native (Carol)
12-29-2014, 12:20 PM
from same article:


"Coach Fox is a players coach. It's on us. We control the locker room. Coach Fox gives us the locker room and lets the leaders take over, that's why we hold everybody accountable," Harris said. "Everybody on this team loves Coach Fox. And that's why we play so hard every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_27220204/kiszla-is-coach-john-fox-help-or-hindrance

IMO, the only thing that matters is how the players view Coach Fox

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2014, 12:39 PM
I think the main reason he does not get so much respect is probably because:

1) His challenges are shocking
2) His clock management is questionable
3) He has had an elite team for 3 years - and in the games we have been beaten in those three years, we were beaten by better coaching and play calling.
4) His in-game adjustments are non-existent


Now to qualify, i like Fox, but i do not think he is Bellicheat or even Rex Ryan when it comes to "coaching" - but as a figure head, with two capable coordinators - he is a class act, conducts himself with dignity and is a credit to the organisation. The players also seem to love playing for him.

Do i want him gone - no, is there better out there, yes - would they come to denver, no.

Nomad
12-29-2014, 12:42 PM
I think the main reason he does not get so much respect is probably because:

1) His challenges are shocking
2) His clock management is questionable
3) He has had an elite team for 3 years - and in the games we have been beaten in those three years, we were beaten by better coaching and play calling.
4) His in-game adjustments are non-existent


Now to qualify, i like Fox, but i do not think he is Bellicheat or even Rex Ryan when it comes to "coaching" - but as a figure head, with two capable coordinators - he is a class act, conducts himself with dignity and is a credit to the organisation. The players also seem to love playing for him.

Do i want him gone - no, is there better out there, yes - would they come to denver, no.

Yeah, Fox reminds me a lot of Les Miles. Players really like Miles, too.

Northman
12-29-2014, 12:45 PM
Lmao, well Tom Coughlin is often hated or resented for his coaching style yet he has two championship rings so there is that.

And for the record, Shanahan has two straight SB title victories.

Slick
12-29-2014, 12:46 PM
Fox's best coaching year was the Tebow season. I think a lot of coaches could have compiled the same records as he has with the rosters he's been given over the last three years.

That said, I still think he's a good coach. The clapping after a bad play is my biggest complaint and it's a minor one. He's done a good job in his tenure in Denver.

tripp
12-29-2014, 12:46 PM
Do i want him gone - no, is there better out there, yes - would they come to denver, no.

Just curious, why do you think coaches wouldn't want to come to Denver? Or do you mean they wouldn't want to come as an OC/DC?

Nomad
12-29-2014, 12:52 PM
Lmao, well Tom Coughlin is often hated or resented for his coaching style yet he has two championship rings so there is that.

And for the record, Shanahan has two straight SB title victories.

Yeah, reading dave's reasons, I couldn't tell who he was talking about:lol:. Id say if Fox can't win a SB with what he has now, I'm not too positive he'll ever win a SB.

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2014, 12:54 PM
Just curious, why do you think coaches wouldn't want to come to Denver? Or do you mean they wouldn't want to come as an OC/DC?

With the exception of Rex Ryan - all the HC that i think are better than Fox are tied up with their current teams.

As i do not think we will/should sack Fox, i doubt any coaches of that calibre are prepared to coach another coaches Offense or Defense.

I think it will be fairly easy for us to attract a high quality OC and DC - as we are an attractive option on both sides of the ball, i think we will pick "up and coming" coordinators rather than failed HC looking to re-establish their reputation.

Although i would be happy with the return of Dennis Allen (and would love sexy rexy - i would hate his brother though)

All of the above is presuming JDR and Gase move on.

MHCBill
12-29-2014, 04:37 PM
The next O-coordinator will be our current QB coach, Greg Knapp. Defensive coordinator won't be quite as easy to figure out, but I could certainly see Dennis Allen returning.

Face it, Rex Ryan is a pipe dream. Plus, could you imagine Fox having that cloud hanging over his head? Elway and Fox are not bringing in REX... live with it.

BroncoWave
12-29-2014, 04:39 PM
from same article:



http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_27220204/kiszla-is-coach-john-fox-help-or-hindrance

IMO, the only thing that matters is how the players view Coach Fox

I don't really agree with this at all. The players in Atlanta all loved Mike Smith too, but it was pretty clear he had to go. Just because the players like you doesn't mean you are a good coach.

Now I'm not saying we should get rid of Fox by any means, but players almost always say they like the coach.

Poet
12-29-2014, 04:40 PM
He's an above average coach. He's not much of a hindrance.

BroncoWave
12-29-2014, 04:42 PM
He's an above average coach. He's not much of a hindrance.

I think his Foxball has potentially cost us a few games, most notably the Baltimore playoff game where we decided to sit on the clock to take it to OT when there was plenty of time to get it into FG range,

Poet
12-29-2014, 04:47 PM
He has his black spots as most coaches do. His career has just been so solid, though. I can understand the frustration with him that fans have, to a point, and I get it.

Northman
12-29-2014, 04:54 PM
He has his black spots as most coaches do. His career has just been so solid, though. I can understand the frustration with him that fans have, to a point, and I get it.

He's no Marvin Lewis.

Poet
12-29-2014, 04:56 PM
Marvin Lewis would beat John Fox's ass though.

BroncoWave
12-29-2014, 04:57 PM
Marvin Lewis would beat John Fox's ass though.

What are you saying there, King?

Poet
12-29-2014, 04:58 PM
My words must be a mystery. -spooky music plays-

aberdien
12-29-2014, 05:03 PM
Fox is a good solid coach. He's right there with Tony Dungy IMO, so he can definitely win a SB. He is not a hindrance, but he probably won't do anything extraordinary.

There are better coaches and there are worse coaches. But I don't think with Manning the coach really matters, because he's gonna do what he's gonna do. Fox is okay with that just as Dungy seems to have been.

Do I think we win a SB with John Fox? No. But he's a coach who can build a good solid foundation. Perhaps he does more than we realize, but at this point he just seems like a guy who can build a good foundation for another more young and innovative coach to come in and move up a notch.

Mike
12-29-2014, 05:10 PM
"Coach Fox is a players coach. It's on us. We control the locker room. Coach Fox gives us the locker room and lets the leaders take over, that's why we hold everybody accountable," Harris said. "Everybody on this team loves Coach Fox. And that's why we play so hard every day."

See to me this is part of the problem and it explains the repetitive problems that the team has had for the last few years. I am sure that they all like Fox. He is a likable guy. But you can't just let the locker room control itself and hold itself accountable or maybe you can and Denver just doesn't have the leaders to do it properly. The coach has to be in charge and hold players accountable and not expect players to fix problems.

UnderArmour
12-29-2014, 05:10 PM
The next O-coordinator will be our current QB coach, Greg Knapp. Defensive coordinator won't be quite as easy to figure out, but I could certainly see Dennis Allen returning.

Face it, Rex Ryan is a pipe dream. Plus, could you imagine Fox having that cloud hanging over his head? Elway and Fox are not bringing in REX... live with it.

Rex is a candidate for both the Atlanta and Chicago jobs, and surely he will have opportunities to interview elsewhere too. He took a Jets team with Mark Sanchez to multiple AFC Championship games and had them relevant. The undoing of Rex Ryan was his offense and his front office. Two GMs, both fired for roster mismanagement. Overpaying Santonio, trading for Tebow, not replacing Braylon as #2, botching Revis's contract and having to trade him, cutting Antonio Cromartie then needing a cornerback while Talib, Revis, and DRC were all free agents and striking out on all of them because of indecision... There are all sorts of other bungles all around Tannebaum/Idzik's time in the front office, but Rex did not have a competent GM.

He'll have a head coaching job next year.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-29-2014, 05:25 PM
"Coach Fox is a players coach. It's on us. We control the locker room. Coach Fox gives us the locker room and lets the leaders take over, that's why we hold everybody accountable," Harris said. "Everybody on this team loves Coach Fox. And that's why we play so hard every day."

See to me this is part of the problem and it explains the repetitive problems that the team has had for the last few years. I am sure that they all like Fox. He is a likable guy. But you can't just let the locker room control itself and hold itself accountable or maybe you can and Denver just doesn't have the leaders to do it properly. The coach has to be in charge and hold players accountable and not expect players to fix problems.

I understand your rationale Mike, but Fox has always been that type of leader. He lets his coordinators call plays and let's his captains run the locker room. I'm sure he steps in when needed but with the captains we have (Manning and Ware in particular) locker room discipline and accountability aren't a problem.

Yes, Fox is somewhat old school but let's be honest, had we continued down the path of pass 40 times a game and run 10, we wouldn't be the #2 seed right now. I like Fox and support him 100%. Every coach makes bad calls sometimes. I won't believe he can't win a Super Bowl here until he doesn't. 4 time division champs says a lot. He's taken 2 different teams to the dance and lost. I think he learned a little bit from last year and, if we make it again this year, we'll be more prepared.

OrangeHoof
12-29-2014, 05:44 PM
The Head Coach is "responsible" for everything but I don't see Fox as very "hands on" with either the offense or the defense. The offense is Peyton's and the defense is Del Rio's yet whenever either side screws up, certain fans want to blame Fox. Yeah, his challenges are terrible but Gary Kubiak was even worse.

Mike
12-29-2014, 06:01 PM
I understand your rationale Mike, but Fox has always been that type of leader. He lets his coordinators call plays and let's his captains run the locker room. I'm sure he steps in when needed but with the captains we have (Manning and Ware in particular) locker room discipline and accountability aren't a problem.

Yes, Fox is somewhat old school but let's be honest, had we continued down the path of pass 40 times a game and run 10, we wouldn't be the #2 seed right now. I like Fox and support him 100%. Every coach makes bad calls sometimes. I won't believe he can't win a Super Bowl here until he doesn't. 4 time division champs says a lot. He's taken 2 different teams to the dance and lost. I think he learned a little bit from last year and, if we make it again this year, we'll be more prepared.

But it was Elway who stepped in to talk to Manning and Gase about the offense, not Fox. He doesn't make the calls...Del Rio does, Gase does. So what does Fox do? He steps in when needed....yet Denver still had penalty and turnover problems. He plays players that aren't the best at their position (see Ball, Hillman, Anderson) and continues to play them when they aren't working (see Orton, Holliday, Caldwell). Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is a bad coach. I think he is an average/reliable coach. He helped tremendously right the ship and I think Denver could do worse. But I think Denver could do better as well.

I hope you are right. But after last couple of years I won't trust a Fox or Manning team. Hope for the best, expect the worst. My main gripe with Fox was his press conference after the SB loss. I understand keeping things in perspective and maybe if the game was competitive I could understand, but the lack of competitive fire and trying to sell 2nd place as not too bad of a season just rubbed me wrong.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-30-2014, 08:29 AM
But it was Elway who stepped in to talk to Manning and Gase about the offense, not Fox. He doesn't make the calls...Del Rio does, Gase does. So what does Fox do? He steps in when needed....yet Denver still had penalty and turnover problems. He plays players that aren't the best at their position (see Ball, Hillman, Anderson) and continues to play them when they aren't working (see Orton, Holliday, Caldwell). Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is a bad coach. I think he is an average/reliable coach. He helped tremendously right the ship and I think Denver could do worse. But I think Denver could do better as well.

I hope you are right. But after last couple of years I won't trust a Fox or Manning team. Hope for the best, expect the worst. My main gripe with Fox was his press conference after the SB loss. I understand keeping things in perspective and maybe if the game was competitive I could understand, but the lack of competitive fire and trying to sell 2nd place as not too bad of a season just rubbed me wrong.

Hard to argue with that. I'm actually more concerned with Manning than Fox when it comes to winning in big games. Manning has always struggled in less than ideal circumstances and seems to play his absolute worst when the pressure is on him to perform (in the really important games, i.e. playoffs and Superbowls). Honestly though, you could say the same about Elway early in his career. If you look at all the big time things Elway did in the playoffs to reach the Superbowl and then look at the eggs he laid in his first three, you can blame the team, but it isn't like he played overly well in any of them. Manning is no different. That's why I feel that we really needed this defense and running game to emerge for Manning. Essentially, if Manning doesn't turn the ball over our chances of winning are ridiculously high. If he starts throwing bad ints like he did in the Superbowl and vs Cincy 2 weeks ago, it's highly unlikely we can recover.

I know it was Elway who talked to Manning and Gase, but how do we know it wasn't at Fox's request? I have no idea if it was or not but it is possible. As far as playing time, most coaches typically will go with the guy who has the best week at practice, which tends to get skewed during the regular season when practice reps are at a premium. On top of that, how do we know that Fox doesn't get a little pressure from Elway to play the guys we're paying more or were higher draft picks. What did Ball do to earn the starting spot other than having Moreno move on? Anderson has clearly established himself as the best all around RB (rushing, receiving, breaking tackles) on the roster, but Ball and Hillman both got the nod over him probably because they were 2nd and 3rd round picks respectively.

Sometimes it's a simple matter of playing who you have - in the case of Orton. Fox played the better passer, after all the QB's job is to throw the football, but rapidly found out that he wasn't the best player or leader. I give him props for bringing in Tebow and turning the season around and not just sticking with the "safer" guy in Orton hoping things would change. For a conservative guy, he's actually done it several times. He benched Moreno for turning the ball over and it paid off. He came back hungry and was a real asset. He switched up the O-line and it has paid dividends in the running game the second half of this season. He has elevated Green to the starting TE spot, even with JT and Tamme available, which has helped both the passing game (in protection) and the running game. He has made Bolden and Welker the KR/PR over Caldwell. Sure, sometimes it seems like he's a day late in his decisions sometimes, but all in all, the changes that are called for on this very board he typically makes.

Buff
12-30-2014, 11:31 AM
This is a tough question - because there is no doubt Fox deserves a lot of credit for 4 straight division championships and the overall stability of this team. And there is no doubt that he is a below average game manager whose in-game decision making is questionable at best.

I think Fox is old school to a fault. He is overly reliant on the running game, doesn't have any clue when to challenge, and is just bad at 2 minute clock management. He is also a steady and reliable leader, a disciplined and principled man and a guy who players and coaches get along with. All things considered, in today's NFL I think the head coach needs to be a great leader first, and a great coach second. Coordinators really need to be the strong X's and O's guys. So with that in mind - I still think Foxy is a net positive, but man he gets in his own way sometimes.

Simple Jaded
01-01-2015, 01:41 AM
The next O-coordinator will be our current QB coach, Greg Knapp. Defensive coordinator won't be quite as easy to figure out, but I could certainly see Dennis Allen returning.

Face it, Rex Ryan is a pipe dream. Plus, could you imagine Fox having that cloud hanging over his head? Elway and Fox are not bringing in REX... live with it.

I used to think it'd be Knapp too but I think Clyde Christenson makes more sense. If Del Rio leaves I think Allen is a slam dunk.

Also, as far as Ryan being DC, it was mostly discussed before he came out and said he's not interested and some of us refuse to rule it out...live with that. Or not, w/e.

Dreadnought
01-01-2015, 10:16 AM
He has his black spots as most coaches do. His career has just been so solid, though. I can understand the frustration with him that fans have, to a point, and I get it.

I don't understand the frustration even a little bit. It is silly and makes me cranky. He is IMO a true elite coach, in the top five in the League easily.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-01-2015, 02:29 PM
from article:


But there were no Lombardi Trophies in Manning's first two years, and the trend started pointing away from Arizona, site of Super Bowl XLIX, after the Broncos were dominated by New England and St. Louis within a period of three weeks near midseason. The play-calling ratio had become even more distorted toward the pass.

The offensive line was struggling to keep up, then was shaken up. There were times when the poised Manning seemed skittish in the pocket.

Fox decided the Broncos could not win it all on Manning's arm alone. In part out of necessity to help their fluid offensive line, a heavier dose of old-school running game was inserted into the game plan of offensive coordinator Adam Gase.

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27215879/broncos-look-offensive-identity-amid-change-philosophy

Joel
01-02-2015, 05:15 PM
See to me this is part of the problem and it explains the repetitive problems that the team has had for the last few years. I am sure that they all like Fox. He is a likable guy. But you can't just let the locker room control itself and hold itself accountable or maybe you can and Denver just doesn't have the leaders to do it properly. The coach has to be in charge and hold players accountable and not expect players to fix problems.
This is where I've been for a while, so I've been on the "hope for the best, expect the worst" bandwagon for a while (but then, I pretty much live there generally.) I had the same reaction to Harris' comment, and have previously asked your "what does Fox do?" question when his many defenders insist on laying each of our ubertalented teams many failings at the feet of various other scapegoats.

In the end, history and circumstances almost inevitably make Manning designated scapegoat; admittedly, he's not played well the past month, but hasn't been awful either: It just doesn't matter. His defenseless Colts teams crippled his SB hopes so often for so long he's secured the "Greatest REGULAR Season QB" tag so firmly even Romo can't claim it, and it's practically reflexive to blame any and all our failings on him now. Hence the comment that are chances of winning a SB are ridiculously high with Manning UNLESS "he starts throwing bad ints like he did in the Superbowl." Except

1) Those bad Ints didn't just happen, and weren't just Manning brain farts: Seattles pass rush FORCED them—WITHOUT BLITZING—because our blocking was so awful, and

2) Manning completed right at 70% of his passes; unfortunately, he threw 49 of them, and had to rush them due to BEING rushed, so our WRs had no time to get deep/open and he averaged <6 yds/att, while 2 of them went to the wrong team.

Fox knew all that, and that it wasn't "just one bad game," but one MORE of many (bad blocking cost us last years game @Indy, and nearly cost us a home game against a Redskins team that fired its coach and benched its starting QB at seasons end because they only won THREE games.) Their solution? Move four of the same five failed starters to NEW starting positions, A year ago, Fox publicly called Clark "the NFLs best backup OT;" now he doesn't even play when his subpar successor's hurt: Instead, we moved an All Pro RG to a new position, creating ANOTHER hole instead of filling one.

As you say, he steps in when needed—or does he; we still have penalty and turnover problems after he steps in, still start duds while keeping studs 3rd or 4th on the depth chart so they don't even play as subs and get the CHANCE to prove themselves, despite the "better" players playing worse. Fox tells us "we made mistakes, but they're correctable," and that's fine—but not EVERY WEEK FOR THREE YEARS; at that point, our biggest mistake is not replacing the guy paid to correct mistakes yet not DOING it. Guys who don't do their jobs lose them, be they players or coaches.

Manning and/or Gase run the offense, Del Rio runs the D, Elway drafts/signs players, so all failings in each of those areas are their respective faults; fine: What IS Fox well paid to do then? If he really is no more than a cheerleader, we've already got plenty better looking ones, and even the captain's not pulling down NFL HC money: Because she's not worth it. Did Fox ask Elway to talk to Gase and Manning about the run game? I sure HOPE not, because that's the HEAD COACHS job, and Elway's made it clear he's here to run the front office, NOT coach: He hired Fox to do that; maybe it's time he earned his pay.

It still won't be Foxs fault if by far the NFLs most talented roster comes up short a third year runnings: Manning's just too easy a target. He's pushing 40, playing with surgically fused vertebrę, has spent his WHOLE career getting labeled a choker because he had no supporting cast and, ultimately, he's a hired gun long time Broncos fans are conditioned to hate because he shelled us so badly in multiple playoff games that Shanahan traded Portis for Champ AND spent his top three draft picks on CBs just to put an end to it.

I figure everyone ELSE will figure Fox out a year or two after Manning retires, when we see how hard it is for him to win division titles WITHOUT a first ballot HoFer running his offense for him. Sadly, it'll be too late by then; it was already too late last year, because even if we'd fired Fox and brought in someone new, he and the team would only just now be getting in the kind of synch needed for a title run, and Manning's just about out of gas. He won't be elite next year, and there's no guarantee he'll even be playing.

HELL, yes, Fox holds us back; we sent NINE players to the Pro Bowl, more than ANY other team, because our roster talent's head and shoulders above ALL other teams for the third year running—yet we've only made it past our first playoff game ONCE, after which we won another close one for the "honor" of being blown out from the kickoff in the SB. We're supposed to be happy Fox afterward figured out what we did wrong (other than his admitted failure to prepare the team for a globally broadcast world championship.) Carroll figured that out BEFORE the game, so he won it.

Joel
01-02-2015, 05:20 PM
Marvin Lewis would beat John Fox's ass though.
Um, he kinda did, for all your criticisms of him over the years on a(t least one) fan site for a different team: Who's the bad fan again...? ;)

Poet
01-02-2015, 05:41 PM
Um, he kinda did, for all your criticisms of him over the years on a(t least one) fan site for a different team: Who's the bad fan again...? ;)

You. My team just lets me down and makes me pessimistic at all time which taints every accomplish as I expect them to **** shit up.

Joel
01-02-2015, 07:35 PM
You. My team just lets me down and makes me pessimistic at all time which taints every accomplish as I expect them to **** shit up.
Are you being ironic, or just sarcastic? After all, your team won its division two years straight; I'm reliably and regularly informed winning a division is good enough for even the best team.

Poet
01-02-2015, 07:44 PM
Are you being ironic, or just sarcastic?

I respect the question. What I am trying to tell you is that you are as hard on your team as I am on mine, yet your team is perpetually great and legitimate SB contenders. My team last won a playoff game in the 90-91 football season. I was three. So I am being ironic in that you and I are guilty of the same thing, but sarcastic in that I think you're insane for feeling the way that you do. Even I get joy out of watching my Bengals play. I never trust them to win. I never believe in them. But when the game is playing and it's football season I find a lot of joy in the Bengals. You never seem to have any joy for the Broncos.

When Stokely, in that 2009 season, caught that deflected ball and ran to the house, the typical fan would be hooting and hollering. You seem to be the type to say 'that sort of thing is not sustainable and we can't feel good about that win' during that play. You offer the harshest and most scathing criticism -much of unfounded, at least to me- during the times that you should elated.

You, Joel, are a black hole that seeks to eliminate positive feelings. Your posts literally make people sad and it's not because you're craftily showing the demise of the team and proffering up knowledge that informs people. If a fan's NFL world is the Broncos, you are a destroyer of worlds. It's simply not fun when you are around, and the nature of the ignore button makes it so that when you are quoted your soul-crushing attitude proliferates throughout the chasms of Broncodom. I'm guilty of enabling you right now.


Stop.

Simple Jaded
01-03-2015, 01:57 AM
Had the dude off iggy for one ******* day!?!?

Lancane
01-04-2015, 04:34 AM
John Fox is not a bad coach, but he's not a great coach either. Despite his record he is and remains a .500 Head Coach and I am not saying that to be negative either - it's rather justifiable when you take into consideration the entirety of his career and the numbers. The one thing that has him looking so good right now is Peyton Manning, you could say that even Elway as a General Manager and Vice President of Football Operations owes much of his overall success to date to Manning in that aspect. I believe that both would still be successful without Manning to a degree, the Broncos would still be contenders and likely have a win or two above the .500 mark. And if we are all being honest then we all know what I am saying is true. That doesn't mean I am on a Bandwagon to replace him either, he's better then a good 50% of the Head Coaches in the league, but I do believe in all honesty that he is a liability because he is a player's coach, he's a nice guy and because he tends to fall into his conservative nature often which can be costly.

When I look at the great coaches three things stand true, they were aggressive, passionate and tend to be disliked more then liked by a good number of people and players. Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, Bill Cowher, Chuck Noll, John Madden, Mike Shanahan, Hank Stram, Marv Levy, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh and so on. Even those considered the cream of the crop in today's circles are much the same, the Haurbaughs, Kelly, Coughlin, Ryan and Carroll among them. Look what Kelly has done in Philadelphia or what Haurbaugh did in San Francisco and while Fox has found similar success, I tell you now that had the Broncos had a more spirited, aggressive no nonsense coach they would have held the Lombardi last off-season, period. Coach Fox was lax in his preparation, he told players to enjoy the surroundings and events, Carroll on the other hand was more to business. Remember how uptight Shanahan was and people commented about it, and he has two Lombardi Trophies whereas Fox has none. Part of the problem is this new level of pampered players who want to wear gold-threaded huggies. Bradshaw wanted to act that way and Chuck Noll taught him better and look what those two did together.

But so long as he's winning Elway can not in anyway justify terminating his contract...not to mention Elway is a bit old school, he believes in long tenures at the position. So I expect Fox to be the Head Coach in Denver for another four or five years, unless he retires or Elway sees what others see, even then I am not sure he'd pull the plug unless Denver starts having continuous below .500 seasons. And while I am okay with winning and winning often, but that is not the purpose of the game. That said, I willingly admit that I miss the passion and riskiness we watched under Reeves and Shanahan for all those years. Eventually it will change and either get better or worse, rarely does it stay the same for too long.

Simple Jaded
01-04-2015, 04:59 AM
Holy shit, Lancane.

Poet
01-04-2015, 04:59 AM
Lancane is a stud.