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BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 07:25 PM
It's really starting to look like father time is catching up to him. His arm strength and accuracy seem to be deteriorting weekly. Pretty questionable decision making too. I love Manning, I really do, but I just don't know how much he has left. I'm glad we finally found a competent running back, because it's going to take that to get us to the Super Bowl again it would appear.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2014, 07:27 PM
Whatta difference a couple weeks make, on pace for 48 TD's and 4800 to done.

I coulda swore I was cursing Manning for overthrowing receivers about 7 days ago.

tripp
12-07-2014, 07:29 PM
Lol no chance, he'll be back next year. It's pretty evident after the past 2 games he is a rhythm passer, and is currently out of sync. Patience.

BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 07:31 PM
Whatta difference a couple weeks make, on pace for 48 TD's and 4800 to done.

But that's kinda my point. Maybe his body is to the point where it can't handle the grind of a 16-19 game season anymore. I'm not bashing him at all. This just happens to players when they get in their lte 30s. He's a freak of nature for being great as long as he has. I think any Bronco fan would have been ecstatic to get 2+ great seasons out of him when we signed him. I'm just wondering how much he really has left.

I'm not calling him done by any means, just posing the question.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2014, 07:32 PM
Lol no chance, he'll be back next year. It's pretty evident after the past 2 games he is a rhythm passer, and is currently out of sync. Patience.

Completely agree, arm strength is no better/worse than a year ago, the style of offense appears to be what Manning is struggling with.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2014, 07:34 PM
But that's kinda my point. Maybe his body is to the point where it can't handle the grind of a 16-19 game season anymore. I'm not bashing him at all. This just happens to players when they get in their lte 30s. He's a freak of nature for being great as long as he has. I think any Bronco fan would have been ecstatic to get 2+ great seasons out of him when we signed him. I'm just wondering how much he really has left.

I'm not calling him done by any means, just posing the question.

Hard not to get frustrated, I am too, but it just doesn't appear to be deteriorating skills as much as the passing offense losing their chemistry. imo.

Shazam!
12-07-2014, 07:34 PM
He played a pretty damn good defense out there today. He has no opportunity to get hot with the way the game flow has been going.

I don't care how they do it as long as they win.

BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 07:35 PM
Completely agree, arm strength is no better/worse than a year ago, the style of offense appears to be what Manning is struggling with.

I think his arm strength has declined. I know he's always thrown ducks, but it's happening at an increasing rate now. For example, on his first pick Sanders toasted that guy deep and Manning underthrew him by 3 yards. The pick on that deep fade was badly underthrown as well. Same with the near pick to Welker in the endzone.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2014, 07:36 PM
Ha know what's concerning is Mannings hanging Sanders out to dry every week.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2014, 07:37 PM
I think his arm strength has declined. I know he's always thrown ducks, but it's happening at an increasing rate now. For example, on his first pick Sanders toasted that guy deep and Manning underthrew him by 3 yards. The pick on that deep fade was badly underthrown as well. Same with the near pick to Welker in the endzone.

On the other hand he had a TD to Sanders overthrown by 5 yards last week, the pass to Welker wasn't much of a barometer for arm strength.

tripp
12-07-2014, 07:38 PM
I think his arm strength has declined. I know he's always thrown ducks, but it's happening at an increasing rate now. For example, on his first pick Sanders toasted that guy deep and Manning underthrew him by 3 yards. The pick on that deep fade was badly underthrown as well. Same with the near pick to Welker in the endzone.

He also over threw Demaryius which turned out to be a pick, and that was for no short gain. My point is, he's over throwing, and under throwing. I firmly believe it's a timing thing more than anything else. I don't see how over a course of a year your arm strength deteriorates that fast, not at age 39. When you run the ball 2 out of 3 times, you're not going to be as sharp as if you threw it 2 out of 3 times.

Also, I've noticed he's struggled without a good TE to throw to a.k.a JT. Just hasn't been able to move the sticks as easily passing, without Orange Julius.

Slick
12-07-2014, 07:38 PM
Hard not to get frustrated, I am too, but it just doesn't appear to be deteriorating skills as much as the passing offense losing their chemistry. imo.

I don't know. He's made some really poor throws lately to guys who have their man beat. That first int today was atrocious.

But I'm hoping your point and others about being out of sync has a little to do with it. I imagine practice went from pass all day to working on the run game after the loss to St Louis. That and Elway's little talk emphasising how he won his rings at the end of his career.

DenBronx
12-07-2014, 07:48 PM
He will be fine.


Don't start the Tebow chants just yet.

BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 07:51 PM
He will be fine.


Don't start the Tebow chants just yet.

LOL I expected this kind of reaction. I'm not calling for him to be replaced. And I have no expectations of Denver cutting him, nor would I want us to. Just wondering if he himself might consider hanging it up after this year. Maybe I'm overreacting to a few bad games, but there have been some saying he's been on the decline since the beginning of the season and I was calling them crazy then, but it's getting harder and harder to call them crazy.

CrazyHorse
12-07-2014, 07:58 PM
LOL I expected this kind of reaction. I'm not calling for him to be replaced. And I have no expectations of Denver cutting him, nor would I want us to. Just wondering if he himself might consider hanging it up after this year. Maybe I'm overreacting to a few bad games, but there have been some saying he's been on the decline since the beginning of the season and I was calling them crazy then, but it's getting harder and harder to call them crazy.

I think he plays another year. 20 million and one reasons why. He'd have all the major passing records. He might even play out his contract.

Northman
12-07-2014, 08:14 PM
Win, lose, or draw i think he is finished after this year. He's an all pro and shouldnt be struggling like he is. Elway never looked that bad while having a running game to help him out. He will do his best to get us a championship but i too think this is his final fair well.

DenBronx
12-07-2014, 08:18 PM
He will be fine.


Don't start the Tebow chants just yet.

LOL I expected this kind of reaction. I'm not calling for him to be replaced. And I have no expectations of Denver cutting him, nor would I want us to. Just wondering if he himself might consider hanging it up after this year. Maybe I'm overreacting to a few bad games, but there have been some saying he's been on the decline since the beginning of the season and I was calling them crazy then, but it's getting harder and harder to call them crazy.

Yeah he has had a few sluggish games. It is concerning because he is supposed to be this teams superman. But I wouldn't worry too much I bet we see some more huge games from him this year that will erase these thoughts.

I believe the team has really focused on the run game the last several weeks in hopes that we can be more than just a passing team. A running game helps put teams away and we didn't have that earlier in the season. But at some point we need to get back to our bread n butter and that's a lethal high scoring offense.

tripp
12-07-2014, 08:34 PM
Peyton has thrown 36 TD's with a QBR of 107.8, and is currently 10-3.

He is 1 TD shy of matching his 2012 season of 37 TD's. Explain to me why he would retire.

VonDoom
12-07-2014, 09:02 PM
Not worried. The threat of Manning is the best offense right now. I like what we have going. Next year, I'll start worrying

Northman
12-07-2014, 09:03 PM
Peyton has thrown 36 TD's with a QBR of 107.8, and is currently 10-3.

He is 1 TD shy of matching his 2012 season of 37 TD's. Explain to me why he would retire.

Age

mouthofsouth
12-07-2014, 09:03 PM
Manning has never been used to having a potent running game. He is adjusting to the attempt to firmly establish that type of offense and not throwing as often. That has him off his rhythm a bit. But it will work itself out. I for one think they are now running TOO much to try to entrench that side of the game. More balance is needed, and sometimes they need to throw when the defense expects them to run, and vice versa.

tripp
12-07-2014, 09:10 PM
Age

But when he was 31 he only threw 31 TD's, and 14 picks. He's 38 and has thrown 36 TD's and is 10-3, if he still has these kind of stats, and is giving us the best possible chance to win, keep on playing till you're 50.

tomjonesrocks
12-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Honestly think he's done. This team should have won a SB already; this year or last.

Now, they either carry him for a title, or he retires with Denver as a disappointing end to his HOF career.

Sucks, but Rahim Moore...

Timmy!
12-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Lol

tripp
12-07-2014, 09:24 PM
Honestly think he's done. This team should have won a SB already; this year or last.

Now, they either carry him for a title, or he retires with Denver as a disappointing end to his HOF career.

Sucks, but Rahim Moore...

lol... oh come on.

BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 09:27 PM
But when he was 31 he only threw 31 TD's, and 14 picks. He's 38 and has thrown 36 TD's and is 10-3, if he still has these kind of stats, and is giving us the best possible chance to win, keep on playing till you're 50.

Cumulative stats can be misleading. I prefer to look at thinks like completion %, TD/INT ratio, INT%, and YPA. He's currently on pace to put up his worst figures in those categories as a Bronco. Not that they are bad figures, but it is a sign of the beginning of a decline.

tomjonesrocks
12-07-2014, 09:33 PM
lol... oh come on.

I think JFE knows it.

They can still win it all. But it's got to happen like 32 now.

tripp
12-07-2014, 09:38 PM
Cumulative stats can be misleading. I prefer to look at thinks like completion %, TD/INT ratio, INT%, and YPA. He's currently on pace to put up his worst figures in those categories as a Bronco. Not that they are bad figures, but it is a sign of the beginning of a decline.

Well, his completion percentage last year was 68.3, currently, he's 66.9. He's thrown 36 TDs - 11 INTs (last year 55 - 10, freak year). He has 87 less attempts from his 2012 year with us, and is only 1 TD shy from matching his 2012 year, has thrown the same amount of INT's as 2012.

Dapper Dan
12-07-2014, 09:43 PM
He hasn't looked great the past few weeks. I'd like to see him come out of this slump.

tripp
12-07-2014, 09:48 PM
He hasn't looked great the past few weeks. I'd like to see him come out of this slump.

He will once we start throwing it more. Would like to see the play calling a bit more balanced, we're a bit run heavy at the moment, and it's taking it's toll on CJ Anderson.

DenBronx
12-07-2014, 09:50 PM
Honestly think he's done. This team should have won a SB already; this year or last.

Now, they either carry him for a title, or he retires with Denver as a disappointing end to his HOF career.

Sucks, but Rahim Moore...


Lol I still hate that game.

silkamilkamonico
12-07-2014, 09:52 PM
I hope not. I'm not ready for mediocrity.

BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 09:53 PM
He will once we start throwing it more. Would like to see the play calling a bit more balanced, we're a bit run heavy at the moment, and it's taking it's toll on CJ Anderson.

To me this is just an excuse, and a bad one. Peyton should be throwing it even better right now as well as we are running it because the D has to put more men in the box to respect the run. A good running game typically helps your passing game, not hurt it.

tripp
12-07-2014, 10:05 PM
To me this is just an excuse, and a bad one. Peyton should be throwing it even better right now as well as we are running it because the D has to put more men in the box to respect the run. A good running game typically helps your passing game, not hurt it.

Ok, but he's not throwing it even better right now. He was throwing it better when we didn't have a run game because his attempts were twice as many as they are now. Maybe I'm missing you're point? If Peyton throws it more and continues to produce, should he not retire then?

I think any QB would be insane to retire when you're consistently getting double digit wins in each season you're playing, and are considered a SB favorite year in and year out.

I mean unless the preparation and the all the stuff that comes with being a QB in the NFL is becoming too much for him, then by all means.

BroncoWave
12-07-2014, 10:08 PM
Ok, but he's not throwing it even better right now.

Which concerns me. Hopefully it is just a funk that he will soon snap out of, but I guess we will see. We need him to play better than he is right now to get to where we want to be IMO.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-07-2014, 10:12 PM
Manning is very erratic right now. He's playing a lot like a gun shy rookie. I think the Rams game really screwed with his psyche. He's staring at the pass rush and throwing off rhythm. He has very little trust in the Oline right now. It's obvious.

They showed a stat today that in 16 drop backs he had 0 hits, sacks, or even hurries. The Oline did a very good job vs a great pass rush today. Normally Manning takes advantage of that, but today he refused to hold the ball for more than 2 seconds and (with the exception of the long balls to Welker and Sanders) his WRs never really had time to get off the jam. All of his throws looked like he was hurried when he wasn't.

I'm happy the running game has been effective, but the passing game should improve because of it, not get markedly worse. I've never seen a team that passes so well have such a reversal. We need to use real play action more and that should help, but Manning needs to snap out of this funk or we're gonna lose to SD next week.

tripp
12-07-2014, 10:15 PM
Which concerns me. Hopefully it is just a funk that he will soon snap out of, but I guess we will see. We need him to play better than he is right now to get to where we want to be IMO.

There very well could be something wrong with him. We'll never know until the season is over. I agree he does need to play better, but I take a lot of comfort in knowing Peyton is a preparation nut, and a perfectionist, and no one needs to tell him he needs to pick his play up a bit, as winning a football game by throwing no TD's is alarming enough, especially by a Peyton Manning led team.

Nomad
12-07-2014, 10:15 PM
Manning is very erratic right now. He's playing a lot like a gun shy rookie. I think the Rams game really screwed with his psyche. He's staring at the pass rush and throwing off rhythm. He has very little trust in the Oline right now. It's obvious.

They showed a stat today that in 16 drop backs he had 0 hits, sacks, or even hurries. The Oline did a very good job vs a great pass rush today. Normally Manning takes advantage of that, but today he refused to hold the ball for more than 2 seconds and (with the exception of the long balls to Welker and Sanders) his WRs never really had time to get off the jam. All of his throws looked like he was hurried when he wasn't.

I'm happy the running game has been effective, but the passing game should improve because of it, not get markedly worse. I've never seen a team that passes so well have such a reversal. We need to use real play action more and that should help, but Manning needs to snap out of this funk or we're gonna lose to SD next week.

Solid points! The Rams game did mess with his psyche.

NightTerror218
12-07-2014, 10:19 PM
IMO Manning is in a slump. Since the Rams game. He is throwing more into less TD over throwing. I hope it is just a slump. I loved seeing the big plays to Sanders early in season. He is now missing those throws.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2014, 10:32 PM
Theres also the possibility that defenses have caught onto the endless ******* bubble screens and crossing routes.

Northman
12-08-2014, 06:17 AM
But when he was 31 he only threw 31 TD's, and 14 picks. He's 38 and has thrown 36 TD's and is 10-3, if he still has these kind of stats, and is giving us the best possible chance to win, keep on playing till you're 50.

I dont think he will have a choice in that. Elway was playing fine before he retired but the body wont always allow you to do it as John soon realized.

capt. Jack
12-08-2014, 07:15 AM
He got crunched into the ground in Foxboro, I think his neck is still a little crunchy from that game in Foxboro?
Pinched nerves, etc.?

Shazam!
12-08-2014, 07:42 AM
But when he was 31 he only threw 31 TD's, and 14 picks. He's 38 and has thrown 36 TD's and is 10-3, if he still has these kind of stats, and is giving us the best possible chance to win, keep on playing till you're 50.

I dont think he will have a choice in that. Elway was playing fine before he retired but the body wont always allow you to do it as John soon realized.

Elway actually had his share of rough games leading into SB33 and in 97 (4 ints @SD, awful vs NYG, I was there). I don't believe Manning has been as physically battered as Elway was.

The offense is in flux and he can't get hot.

I don't get it after a few games.

Broncos fans and the writers have really been spoiled and when Manning goes, we're all going to live a nightmare.

Northman
12-08-2014, 08:00 AM
Broncos fans and the writers have really been spoiled and when Manning goes, we're all going to live a nightmare.


Some will, some wont. I was ready to rebuild before Manning got here so this is just a blip on the radar really. We took a shot with Manning and will see how it plays out but im more than ready to start building for the future which i know is going to have its own bumps along the way.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-08-2014, 08:30 AM
Elway actually had his share of rough games leading into SB33 and in 97 (4 ints @SD, awful vs NYG, I was there). I don't believe Manning has been as physically battered as Elway was.

The offense is in flux and he can't get hot.

I don't get it after a few games.

Broncos fans and the writers have really been spoiled and when Manning goes, we're all going to live a nightmare.

I think the real concern is that Manning hasn't really played well in weeks (since and including the Rams game). He's thrown bad, unforced INTs in like 4 of his last 5 games and if it wasn't for the running game, we'd have lost - badly. Maybe it's just that the offense as a whole is just banged up. Nobody, other than CJ before this week, has looked healthy. JT has missed 4 games now (if you include the Rams game where he left in the 1st qtr), DT has been a little gimpy and getting up slowly, even before the foot, Sanders gets rocked every game which has to be taking its toll whether or not he pops back up, and Welker is a shell of his former self.

Whatever it is, these guys need to tighten up the screws. Our passing game looks old, tired, and like every defense we play knows exactly what's coming. We've revamped the running game, now revamp the passing game some to match. So many times the last 3 weeks, the defense has been begging for play action, yet we don't use it. It's either a fade or bubble screen with no play action, even if the running game is working.

tripp
12-08-2014, 10:12 AM
Elway actually had his share of rough games leading into SB33 and in 97 (4 ints @SD, awful vs NYG, I was there). I don't believe Manning has been as physically battered as Elway was.

The offense is in flux and he can't get hot.

I don't get it after a few games.

Broncos fans and the writers have really been spoiled and when Manning goes, we're all going to live a nightmare.


This.

I agree. I've taken for granted the Manning era, and he's made it easy to forget the Orton/Tebow era.

Oz has some BIG shoes to fill.

Shazam!
12-08-2014, 12:58 PM
They are doing their best to mask glaring OLine issues.

Everyone needs to relax a little seriously. Peyton is fine.

BroncoWave
12-08-2014, 01:18 PM
They are doing their best to mask glaring OLine issues.

Everyone needs to relax a little seriously. Peyton is fine.

Who isn't relaxed? All I did was ask a question. I think it's a fair point to raise. That doesn't mean anyone is panicking about his career being over.

Buff
12-08-2014, 01:25 PM
I think he will finish his 5 year contract and play two more seasons. For the longest time, even at the beginning of the season, I believed Manning would only play 3 seasons. But he's still playing too well. He's an MVP candidate at age 38, so even though he's lost a little on his fastball, he's a top QB. And he still enjoys it. So barring an unforeseen injury, I don't see him walking away prematurely.

BroncoWave
12-08-2014, 01:28 PM
I think he will finish his 5 year contract and play two more seasons. For the longest time, even at the beginning of the season, I believed Manning would only play 3 seasons. But he's still playing too well. He's an MVP candidate at age 38, so even though he's lost a little on his fastball, he's a top QB. And he still enjoys it. So barring an unforeseen injury, I don't see him walking away prematurely.

I hope you're right. I'm not looking forward to the osweiler era beginning any time soon

MasterShake
12-08-2014, 01:28 PM
The interceptions are a concern for me but it is easy to overreact on them. To me it just looks like Manning is letting the gameplan work (which the last few weeks have been a steady dose of run and a lot of defense) and that is just fine in my book. His arm strength, ducks, or whatever you want to call it seems on par with last season and even earlier this year when he was chucking it around the field. The problem seems to lie in the fact that Manning relies on lots of throwing reps to get going and that just isn't going to happen if we keep the run game going like it is. It will be interesting to see how he throws the ball the rest of the season, until then I won't worry too much yet. I still think if the gameplan called for an aerial attack we could turn that back on, especially once Julius gets healthy.

Right now this is exactly what we wanted - a more balanced attack. I just want the passing game to complement it a bit better and I think we have time to work that out going into January. The last few weeks have looked like good playoff football to me. We already saw what happened to our Broncos when the run is not a factor.

Nomad
12-08-2014, 01:32 PM
The interceptions are a concern for me but it is easy to overreact on them. To me it just looks like Manning is letting the gameplan work (which the last few weeks have been a steady dose of run and a lot of defense) and that is just fine in my book. His arm strength, ducks, or whatever you want to call it seems on par with last season and even earlier this year when he was chucking it around the field. The problem seems to lie in the fact that Manning relies on lots of throwing reps to get going and that just isn't going to happen if we keep the run game going like it is. It will be interesting to see how he throws the ball the rest of the season, until then I won't worry too much yet. I still think if the gameplan called for an aerial attack we could turn that back on, especially once Julius gets healthy.

Right now this is exactly what we wanted - a more balanced attack. I just want the passing game to complement it a bit better and I think we have time to work that out going into January. The last few weeks have looked like good playoff football to me. We already saw what happened to our Broncos when the run is not a factor.

I don't think it's an overreaction to the interceptions, because that can be a difference in a game, just like a missed FG;)

Northman
12-08-2014, 01:34 PM
I'm not looking forward to the osweiler era beginning any time soon

Boooooooooo

Nomad
12-08-2014, 01:41 PM
Boooooooooo

I want to see Oz play the whole Raiders game. BRONCOS need to win the next 2 games, so that can happen.

tripp
12-08-2014, 01:42 PM
I hope you're right. I'm not looking forward to the osweiler era beginning any time soon

If given the opportunity and the Raiders game was somehow a meaningless game, I would love to see Oz play that game. Open the play book for him, and let's see how he can do. Although I don't see that game becoming a meaningless game unless we lose to SD or Cinci and are mathematically out of contention for #1 seed while having the 2nd seed locked up.

Buff
12-08-2014, 01:44 PM
I'd like to see Osweiler have a career game against Oakland a la Matt Flynn so that we can trade high in the offseason. After watching Ryan Mallet play for the Texans, I think we have a very similar prospect on our hands.

Nomad
12-08-2014, 01:45 PM
I was thinking more of giving Manning some rest:lol:

BroncoWave
12-08-2014, 01:56 PM
I'd like to see Osweiler have a career game against Oakland a la Matt Flynn so that we can trade high in the offseason. After watching Ryan Mallet play for the Texans, I think we have a very similar prospect on our hands.

That would be awesome.

Northman
12-08-2014, 02:37 PM
I'd like to see Osweiler have a career game against Oakland a la Matt Flynn so that we can trade high in the offseason. After watching Ryan Mallet play for the Texans, I think we have a very similar prospect on our hands.

Boooooooo

Valar Morghulis
12-08-2014, 02:45 PM
So glad someone did this thread.

I consider myself to be a fairly rational and analytical person, not prone to over reacting.......BUT i was beginning to freak out a bit that PFM is in the beginning of the end.

I dont think he has looked like PFM since the 49ers game - now i am not saying he is done or that he is a bad qb, but his form has definitely slumped. that worried me.

Having read this thread certain people have put my mind at rest that although his form has dipped (that can not be denied) he still may have something left in the tank.

I think he wants to retire on top, not cut from teams like Champ. i just hope we get one more year (and 2 SBs) out of him

Northman
12-08-2014, 02:58 PM
So glad someone did this thread.



Are you sure? There seem to be a lot of people that hate it. lmao

pulse
12-08-2014, 03:04 PM
If you think this is the first time Manning has had a couple of rotten weeks passing, you didn't watch the Colts play very often. I've seen plenty of sub-200 yard games with multiple interceptions. Those games rarely ended up in the win column. Peyton has bad stretches like every QB. They just don't last long. The biggest difference between the Manning of now versus the Manning of his earlier career is that back then he rarely had a team with a sustainable running game and highly rated defense to carry him through a few bad performances. I seem to recall one of those teams carrying him through some bad playoff games and an NFL Championship. Be that as it may, even if his physical skill set has declined somewhat, you are crazy if you don't want him to be here a few more years. He's still Peyton Manning and he still gives you a great shot at winning your division every year and getting to the Super Bowl. He'll walk away before he is ever incapable of winning the majority of his games. At this point, I'd say the majority of NFL teams still can't best him on sub par day, much less an average one. I'll live through a few bad games from Manning from time to time, especially when the team is winning.

BroncoJoe
12-08-2014, 03:07 PM
10-3.

Valar Morghulis
12-08-2014, 03:07 PM
Are you sure? There seem to be a lot of people that hate it. lmao

Yeah i know LOL

But i needed to read it all for my own sanity.

I actually started a conversation in work today about NFL - i said

"the broncos chalked up another win, last night, but they did it on the ground rather than through the air, i am getting a bit worried that our qb may be done"

This was the reply

"so did they win the superbowl last night"

LMAO - that is the level of NFL knowledge i am dealing with, so i need the fine people on the message board to put me right!

Northman
12-08-2014, 03:16 PM
Yeah i know LOL

But i needed to read it all for my own sanity.

I actually started a conversation in work today about NFL - i said

"the broncos chalked up another win, last night, but they did it on the ground rather than through the air, i am getting a bit worried that our qb may be done"

This was the reply

"so did they win the superbowl last night"

LMAO - that is the level of NFL knowledge i am dealing with, so i need the fine people on the message board to put me right!


Well, we did beat GB by running more than passing but then that was Elway the best ever. But... pulse has a very good point. In Manning's last year as a Colt he went on a 3 game stretch where he threw 11 INT's but the team still went 10-6 that year so you never know. He might pull out of his slump, we shall see.

MasterShake
12-08-2014, 04:21 PM
Well, we did beat GB by running more than passing but then that was Elway the best ever. But... pulse has a very good point. In Manning's last year as a Colt he went on a 3 game stretch where he threw 11 INT's but the team still went 10-6 that year so you never know. He might pull out of his slump, we shall see.

Elway had an off passing day during Super Bowl XXXII. He ran for a TD and threw for 0. I think he only had 120 yards passing or some nonsense like that. Our run game and our defense won the game that day.

NightTrainLayne
12-08-2014, 04:23 PM
Elway had an off passing day during Super Bowl XXXII. He ran for a TD and threw for 0. I think he only had 120 yards passing or some nonsense like that. Our run game and our defense won the game that day.

I don't know that I'd call it an off day. The gameplan simply didn't call for him to throw it much at all. Plus GB had a great defense.

He did throw that one INT in the endzone after the turnover. Shanny was always so agressive after a turnover to try and take advantage of change of momentum. But that time it bit him.

MasterShake
12-08-2014, 04:32 PM
I don't know that I'd call it an off day. The gameplan simply didn't call for him to throw it much at all. Plus GB had a great defense.

He did throw that one INT in the endzone after the turnover. Shanny was always so agressive after a turnover to try and take advantage of change of momentum. But that time it bit him.

Bad wording on my part. He had an off day compared to what you think of when you think of Elway but the result of that game like yesterday was a win. Like Manning has done the last few weeks, he has let the opponent define the gameplan and then trusted that to impose the teams will. They could have freaked out and gave up on the run early but they didn't and I think that just broke Buffalo's spirit.

The attitude the Broncos had in that Superbowl carried over to Elway (the helicopter run embodied that) and instead of thinking he had to carry the team, they carried each other. Maybe that is the missing ingredient of this good team we have right now that can make them great.

Northman
12-08-2014, 04:33 PM
I don't know that I'd call it an off day. The gameplan simply didn't call for him to throw it much at all. Plus GB had a great defense.

He did throw that one INT in the endzone after the turnover. Shanny was always so agressive after a turnover to try and take advantage of change of momentum. But that time it bit him.

Robinson knew his tendencies as well from his days in Seattle. But thats why it was such an enjoyment to watch him get torched the following year with Atlanta. lmao

Northman
12-08-2014, 04:35 PM
Bad wording on my part. He had an off day compared to what you think of when you think of Elway but the result of that game like yesterday was a win. Like Manning has done the last few weeks, he has let the opponent define the gameplan and then trusted that to impose the teams will. They could have freaked out and gave up on the run early but they didn't and I think that just broke Buffalo's spirit.

The attitude the Broncos had in that Superbowl carried over to Elway (the helicopter run embodied that) and instead of thinking he had to carry the team, they carried each other. Maybe that is the missing ingredient of this good team we have right now that can make them great.

Thats what i was getting at with my other post, but the difference is that Elway never went into these multiple lulls in the passing game. Again, i dont think Manning is Elway as Elway was one of a kind but i dont think we can get away with winning like this every week. Sooner or later its going to have to come back to Pey Pey making some plays of his own, especially passing since he isnt going to be doing the helichopter without getting destroyed. lol

Timmy!
12-08-2014, 04:38 PM
I think he will finish his 5 year contract and play two more seasons. For the longest time, even at the beginning of the season, I believed Manning would only play 3 seasons. But he's still playing too well. He's an MVP candidate at age 38, so even though he's lost a little on his fastball, he's a top QB. And he still enjoys it. So barring an unforeseen injury, I don't see him walking away prematurely.

/thread

tripp
12-08-2014, 04:39 PM
If you think this is the first time Manning has had a couple of rotten weeks passing, you didn't watch the Colts play very often. I've seen plenty of sub-200 yard games with multiple interceptions. Those games rarely ended up in the win column. Peyton has bad stretches like every QB. They just don't last long. The biggest difference between the Manning of now versus the Manning of his earlier career is that back then he rarely had a team with a sustainable running game and highly rated defense to carry him through a few bad performances. I seem to recall one of those teams carrying him through some bad playoff games and an NFL Championship. Be that as it may, even if his physical skill set has declined somewhat, you are crazy if you don't want him to be here a few more years. He's still Peyton Manning and he still gives you a great shot at winning your division every year and getting to the Super Bowl. He'll walk away before he is ever incapable of winning the majority of his games. At this point, I'd say the majority of NFL teams still can't best him on sub par day, much less an average one. I'll live through a few bad games from Manning from time to time, especially when the team is winning.


I rarely watched any Colts games when he was in Indy so I wouldn't know, but it does seem as though he is in some sort of rut. So as someone who has watched a lot of Colts games, you think it's more of being in a slump rather than only throwing it 20 times, and not getting into some sort of rhythm?

pulse
12-08-2014, 04:54 PM
I've seen him throw plenty of times for 250 yards and 3 TDs with only around 20 passes. I don't think it's rhythm necessarily. Really, it's more about errors. He's been more prone to bad passes the past few weeks than usual. That to me is more of a slump and it's just great to be able to lean on a running game and defense while he's experiencing it. I don't care if he only throws 15 times as long as we win. I'd just like fewer bad passes, please.

MasterShake
12-08-2014, 05:59 PM
Thats what i was getting at with my other post, but the difference is that Elway never went into these multiple lulls in the passing game. Again, i dont think Manning is Elway as Elway was one of a kind but i dont think we can get away with winning like this every week. Sooner or later its going to have to come back to Pey Pey making some plays of his own, especially passing since he isnt going to be doing the helichopter without getting destroyed. lol

I'll have to find the stats but I believe Elway had plenty of bad games that 97-98 season, especially toward the end. I see what you are saying though.

OB
12-08-2014, 06:07 PM
6218

Tangerine
12-08-2014, 06:10 PM
If you think this is the first time Manning has had a couple of rotten weeks passing, you didn't watch the Colts play very often. I've seen plenty of sub-200 yard games with multiple interceptions. Those games rarely ended up in the win column. Peyton has bad stretches like every QB. They just don't last long. The biggest difference between the Manning of now versus the Manning of his earlier career is that back then he rarely had a team with a sustainable running game and highly rated defense to carry him through a few bad performances. I seem to recall one of those teams carrying him through some bad playoff games and an NFL Championship. Be that as it may, even if his physical skill set has declined somewhat, you are crazy if you don't want him to be here a few more years. He's still Peyton Manning and he still gives you a great shot at winning your division every year and getting to the Super Bowl. He'll walk away before he is ever incapable of winning the majority of his games. At this point, I'd say the majority of NFL teams still can't best him on sub par day, much less an average one. I'll live through a few bad games from Manning from time to time, especially when the team is winning.

Adding some stats to your post

2014 -Previous 4 games (Rams game till now), record 3-1, 65% Cmp, 250 yards per game, 7 TD, 4 INT

2010 - Week 8-12, record 1-4, 66% Cmp, 305 yards per game, 9 TD, 13 INT

2008 - Week 1-7, record 3-4, 61% Cmp, 250 yards per game, 10 TD, 9 INT

2007 - Week 8-10, record 1-2, 57% Cmp, 238 per game, 3 TD, 8 INT

2006 - Week 10-13, record 1-3, 58% Cmp, 275 per game, 4 TD, 6 INT

Nomad
12-08-2014, 06:13 PM
I've seen him throw plenty of times for 250 yards and 3 TDs with only around 20 passes. I don't think it's rhythm necessarily. Really, it's more about errors. He's been more prone to bad passes the past few weeks than usual. That to me is more of a slump and it's just great to be able to lean on a running game and defense while he's experiencing it. I don't care if he only throws 15 times as long as we win. I'd just like fewer bad passes, please.

It is about calling out Manning for his mistakes, which could cost this team a W. He's a HOF veteran QB which should be held to a high standard, and I don't see him being exempt from be called out.

VonDoom
12-08-2014, 06:38 PM
Adding some stats to your post

2014 -Previous 4 games (Rams game till now), record 3-1, 65% Cmp, 250 yards per game, 7 TD, 4 INT

2010 - Week 8-12, record 1-4, 66% Cmp, 305 yards per game, 9 TD, 13 INT

2008 - Week 1-7, record 3-4, 61% Cmp, 250 yards per game, 10 TD, 9 INT

2007 - Week 8-10, record 1-2, 57% Cmp, 238 per game, 3 TD, 8 INT

2006 - Week 10-13, record 1-3, 58% Cmp, 275 per game, 4 TD, 6 INT

Thanks for the stats. It's interesting to look at the records in those games especially - all of those slumps coincided with losing records until this current one. That's a testament to this team right now.

Shazam!
12-08-2014, 06:50 PM
I expect a humongous game from PM at SD now.

Nomad
12-08-2014, 07:00 PM
I expect a humongous game from PM at SD now.

The win will be sufficient minus the turnovers. I believe many want to see the deep threat as a viable option, if needed.

Simple Jaded
12-08-2014, 11:03 PM
Adding some stats to your post

2014 -Previous 4 games (Rams game till now), record 3-1, 65% Cmp, 250 yards per game, 7 TD, 4 INT

2010 - Week 8-12, record 1-4, 66% Cmp, 305 yards per game, 9 TD, 13 INT

2008 - Week 1-7, record 3-4, 61% Cmp, 250 yards per game, 10 TD, 9 INT

2007 - Week 8-10, record 1-2, 57% Cmp, 238 per game, 3 TD, 8 INT

2006 - Week 10-13, record 1-3, 58% Cmp, 275 per game, 4 TD, 6 INT

Mike Hawk is impressive.

OB
12-08-2014, 11:04 PM
Mike Hawk is impressive.

:pound:

Valar Morghulis
12-09-2014, 02:33 AM
Mike Hawk is impressive.

Everyone loves Mike hawk

BroncoWave
12-14-2014, 07:20 PM
So who's the moron that started this thread? :lol:

tripp
12-14-2014, 07:33 PM
So who's the moron that started this thread? :lol:

He looked much better today, most passes were on the button, and I had the feeling that we could throw the ball at any point in the game with success. Pretty impressive considering he had the flu.

Northman
12-14-2014, 07:39 PM
So who's the moron that started this thread? :lol:

Your not a moron.

Davii
12-14-2014, 07:47 PM
So who's the moron that started this thread? :lol:

I like your humility, but being wrong doesn't equal being a moron.

BroncoWave
12-14-2014, 07:52 PM
I like your humility, but being wrong doesn't equal being a moron.

I was just making a funny there lol. In all seriousness though, I probably was being a little emo with this thread last week.

Davii
12-14-2014, 07:54 PM
I was just making a funny there lol. In all seriousness though, I probably was being a little emo with this thread last week.

Probably? Lol

In all honesty one game proves nothing, but. .. that being said, the guy leads the league in TDs, is right at 4k yards, and had the beat season ever last year. Reports of his demise are premature and maybe even foolish.

He's PFM. He always gets the benefit of the doubt.

BroncoWave
12-14-2014, 07:57 PM
Probably? Lol

In all honesty one game proves nothing, but. .. that being said, the guy leads the league in TDs, is right at 4k yards, and had the beat season ever last year. Reports of his demise are premature and maybe even foolish.

He's PFM. He always gets the benefit of the doubt.

I'm still pretty worried about having to go to Foxboro in the cold, but the emergence of our running game will definitely help.

Bronco4ever
12-14-2014, 07:58 PM
Manning might have had a better game against Buffalo than Rodgers, who is widely regarded as the best player in the game.

P. Manning : 14 20 173 0 TD 2 INT
A. Rodgers: 17 42 185 0 TD 2 INT

Davii
12-14-2014, 08:05 PM
I'm still pretty worried about having to go to Foxboro in the cold, but the emergence of our running game will definitely help.

Why? Worry about it if it happens. There's still two games left and we both have to win a playoff game before that happens.

MileHighCrew
12-14-2014, 08:05 PM
Manning might have had a better game against Buffalo than Rodgers, who is widely regarded as the best player in the game.

P. Manning : 14 20 173 0 TD 2 INT
A. Rodgers: 17 42 185 0 TD 2 INT

Maybe Buffalo can pull an upset last week of the season against Brady. their D is up for the challenge.

VonDoom
12-14-2014, 08:34 PM
Manning might have had a better game against Buffalo than Rodgers, who is widely regarded as the best player in the game.

P. Manning : 14 20 173 0 TD 2 INT
A. Rodgers: 17 42 185 0 TD 2 INT

Agreed. I'm not making excuses for Manning last week, but Rodgers looked very human against them and he is the best in the game right now. Again, it goes back to the fact that we have played some GREAT defenses this year.


Maybe Buffalo can pull an upset last week of the season against Brady. their D is up for the challenge.

Brady torched them earlier in the year, but yeah, with Buffalo's win today, things could get interesting. Bills play at the Raiders next week, so if they go into Foxboro at 9-6, they could be fighting for their playoff lives. I like that it won't be a gimme for the Pats.

BroncoWave
12-14-2014, 08:35 PM
Why? Worry about it if it happens. There's still two games left and we both have to win a playoff game before that happens.

I mean, I'm not sitting here literally stressing myself out about it. More of a hypothetical future worry.

Davii
12-14-2014, 08:39 PM
I mean, I'm not sitting here literally stressing myself out about it. More of a hypothetical future worry.

Enjoy the ride man.

BroncoWave
12-14-2014, 08:40 PM
Enjoy the ride man.

I am. That doesn't mean possible future scenarios can't creep into my mind sometimes as well.

Northman
12-15-2014, 05:18 AM
Manning might have had a better game against Buffalo than Rodgers, who is widely regarded as the best player in the game.

P. Manning : 14 20 173 0 TD 2 INT
A. Rodgers: 17 42 185 0 TD 2 INT

To be fair Nelson dropped a sure TD in that game.

BroncoWave
12-15-2014, 08:48 AM
To be fair Nelson dropped a sure TD in that game.

I don't think that was a sure TD as much as everyone else seems to think to. To me, it looked like the safety had the angle on him.

BroncoJoe
12-15-2014, 08:49 AM
Didn't Manning have a couple dropped that "could" of been TD's against Buffalo as well or am I thinking of a different game?

EastCoastBronco
12-15-2014, 08:53 AM
Peyton's real nemesis isn't father time or the new offensive scheme.
He has overcome both of those repeatedly this year...with a huge amount of help from the D.

His real nemesis resides in a little town in the Northeast, just outside of Boston and right now it looks very much like the road to the SB goes straight through it.

TXBRONC
12-15-2014, 08:53 AM
I mean, I'm not sitting here literally stressing myself out about it. More of a hypothetical future worry.

BTB that is the very definition of stressing. :lol:

BroncoWave
12-15-2014, 08:57 AM
BTB that is the very definition of stressing. :lol:

It's only stressing if I sit and dwell on it for long periods of time. Outside of mentioning it in this thread, that potential game againt New England is probably the furthest thing from my mind when it comes to sports. Hell any Broncos thoughts in general are taking a pretty big backseat right now to Mississippi State's upcoming Orange Bowl game.

But it is funny to see these amateur psychologists tell me to stop stressing out based on a one-off post in a single thread. :lol:

Valar Morghulis
12-15-2014, 08:59 AM
It's only stressing if I sit and dwell on it for long periods of time. Outside of mentioning it in this thread, that potential game againt New England is probably the furthest thing from my mind when it comes to sports. Hell any Broncos thoughts in general are taking a pretty big backseat right now to Mississippi State's upcoming Orange Bowl game.

But it is funny to see these amateur psychologists tell me to stop stressing out based on a one-off post in a single thread. :lol:

An amateur psychologist would go on to comment about how defensive you are about being told not to stress........

Valar Morghulis
12-15-2014, 09:00 AM
It's only stressing if I sit and dwell on it for long periods of time. Outside of mentioning it in this thread, that potential game againt New England is probably the furthest thing from my mind when it comes to sports. Hell any Broncos thoughts in general are taking a pretty big backseat right now to Mississippi State's upcoming Orange Bowl game.


Are they not in the peach bowl or is that ole miss

BroncoWave
12-15-2014, 09:02 AM
Are they not in the peach bowl or is that ole miss

Yeah, Peach Bowl is Ole Miss-TCU. Orange is MSU-GT.

Cugel
12-15-2014, 09:05 AM
I can't understand why people don't just listen to what Peyton says and has said about this.

He signed a five year contract. He's said he wants to fulfill the contract. It's year three. That means he intends to play through the 2016 season and retire after that.

Things that could change his mind:

1. Win the SB and maybe he rides off into the sun. Maybe though he listens to Elway who came back for one more year and won another.

2. Maybe he suffers a career ending injury. This is the NFL after all, but Peyton is probably less likely to be suffer such an injury than almost any QB in the NFL. He hardly ever gets hit. He suffered a bad hammy in this game, but he's not exactly Vick out there to begin with. So, you have to wonder how much that kind of thing will matter with him.

3. Maybe his skills decline so radically he can't play any more. That seems to be the possibility that has obsessed the media and fans. But, when Peyton came here those same idiots were saying "if he's only 80% of what he was that's still better than most QBs in the NFL. Instead he had a career best season in 2013.

Is Peyton "declining"? Maybe slightly, although this past game doesn't show it. But, he's already compensated for the fact that he can't throw with the same velocity as when he was 28.

We won't know ANYTHING about what Peyton's real "decline" is until next year - assuming he returns.

But, unless something changes he fully intends to play in 2015 and 2016. I've said since he first came here that he would play for 5 years and everybody said "no, 1 or 2 seasons." I still say 5.

pulse
12-15-2014, 09:11 AM
You can never rule out anything when it comes to longevity in the NFL, but I'm hoping this thread will be fun to revisit in 2016.

VonDoom
12-15-2014, 09:24 AM
Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar

Against common opponents, Peyton Manning's season looks better than Rodgers and Brady.

https://twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/544478022540484609/photo/1

Northman
12-15-2014, 09:32 AM
All i care about is can he and the Broncos go into Gillette and win.

BroncoWave
12-15-2014, 09:35 AM
All i care about is can he and the Broncos go into Gillette and win.

Stop stressing out about it so much North, OMG!

Valar Morghulis
12-15-2014, 09:35 AM
All i care about is can he and the Broncos go into Gillette and win.

This

Northman
12-15-2014, 09:35 AM
Stop stressing out about it so much North, OMG!

Your right, must lower my expectations. lol

PatriotsGuy
12-15-2014, 09:52 AM
Your right, must lower my expectations. lol

I didn't end up going to the Drover's show on Friday night. Glen e-mailed me after it was done to say that although the venue was great, the area was really sketchy so he was glad I didn't go. I hope this answers your football question.

Shazam!
12-15-2014, 10:00 AM
All i care about is can he and the Broncos go into Gillette and win.

Broncos are 0-4 @ NE going back to Tebow. 1-5 overall since.

Eventually, they've gotta pull one off. Now is best time since the change in offense. Just gotta go out there and punch em in the face with CJ.

Northman
12-15-2014, 11:16 AM
Broncos are 0-4 @ NE going back to Tebow. 1-5 overall since.

Eventually, they've gotta pull one off. Now is best time since the change in offense. Just gotta go out there and punch em in the face with CJ.

Would be nice but i do think there is a better advantage in NE with coaching and overall team attitude. Pats just seem far more hungry right now.

TXBRONC
12-15-2014, 12:02 PM
It's only stressing if I sit and dwell on it for long periods of time. Outside of mentioning it in this thread, that potential game againt New England is probably the furthest thing from my mind when it comes to sports. Hell any Broncos thoughts in general are taking a pretty big backseat right now to Mississippi State's upcoming Orange Bowl game.

But it is funny to see these amateur psychologists tell me to stop stressing out based on a one-off post in a single thread. :lol:

It doesn't take a amateur psychologist nor was it just one post. It also doesn't take an expert to figure how hypocritical you are. :welcome:

BroncoWave
12-15-2014, 01:59 PM
It doesn't take a amateur psychologist nor was it just one post. It also doesn't take an expert to figure how hypocritical you are. :welcome:

Luckily I don't give a shit about your opinion, so I have that going for me. :)

tomjonesrocks
12-15-2014, 02:56 PM
Would be nice but i do think there is a better advantage in NE with coaching and overall team attitude. Pats just seem far more hungry right now.

There's just zero logic justifying a belief Denver has any shot at all there.

Would really be a monster playoff shocker if Denver were to win that game, eclipsing the accomplishment of all the road wins during the SB heyday years.

It is what it is. I'll crown 'em.

Buff
12-15-2014, 03:19 PM
There's just zero logic justifying a belief Denver has any shot at all there.

Would really be a monster playoff shocker if Denver were to win that game, eclipsing the accomplishment of all the road wins during the SB heyday years.

It is what it is. I'll crown 'em.

On the latter point, I agree, the Patriots are better than both the Chiefs and Steelers were in 1997-1998... But on the first point, you're being ridiculous. It really isn't all that much of a stretch to envision us beating the Patriots in Gillette. Sure, we'd be a 3-6 point dog, but it's not like we're the New York Jets.

VonDoom
12-15-2014, 03:32 PM
On the latter point, I agree, the Patriots are better than both the Chiefs and Steelers were in 1997-1998... But on the first point, you're being ridiculous. It really isn't all that much of a stretch to envision us beating the Patriots in Gillette. Sure, we'd be a 3-6 point dog, but it's not like we're the New York Jets.

I agree with this. There's no such thing as "no chance" in this league. Did anyone think the Ravens would beat us and the Pats two years ago? How about the Giants beating the Pats in the SB twice, including the 18-0 season? If we're in the game, we have a chance, especially with our new offense. I do think we have a mental hang up about playing there, and that will be the biggest obstacle to winning the biggest game of the year in that building.

tomjonesrocks
12-15-2014, 03:41 PM
Sure, we'd be a 3-6 point dog, but it's not like we're the New York Jets.

Denver will be double-digit 'dogs.
Pats will be 10 point favorites minimum.

Buff
12-15-2014, 03:43 PM
Denver will be double-digit 'dogs.
10 point favorites minimum.

No chance. If the AFC Championship were this week, in Gillette, I think we'd probably open as 4.5 point dogs. 6 at the most. We might be 10 point dogs if Osweiler were starting.

Northman
12-15-2014, 03:50 PM
Did anyone think the Ravens would beat us and the Pats two years ago?

I knew it could be a possibility. Ravens are a good road team, especially in the playoffs.


I do think we have a mental hang up about playing there, and that will be the biggest obstacle to winning the biggest game of the year in that building.

Correct, which is what i was eluding too in my other post. And the problem for Denver is when things start to go south they tend to start unraveling even more. Im still baffled how we managed to lose that game in NE last year after being up 24-0.

weazel
12-15-2014, 04:39 PM
Denver doesn't just lose playoff games, they melt down

BroncoJoe
12-15-2014, 05:24 PM
On the latter point, I agree, the Patriots are better than both the Chiefs and Steelers were in 1997-1998... But on the first point, you're being ridiculous. It really isn't all that much of a stretch to envision us beating the Patriots in Gillette. Sure, we'd be a 3-6 point dog, but it's not like we're the New York Jets.

When did you become such a reasonable person?

BroncoJoe
12-15-2014, 05:25 PM
All the guys doubting the Broncos are probably the same ones mad at Pot Roast for speaking his mind.

bunch of wussie-men.

Buff
12-15-2014, 05:43 PM
When did you become such a reasonable person?

If only I'd have gotten my shit together while your daughter was still single.

BroncoJoe
12-15-2014, 05:54 PM
If only I'd have gotten my shit together while your daughter was still single.

I hate her BF more than you, but more importantly, I have two other daughters... there's still time.












j/k. You have no chance in hell. And I don't hate her BF - I just don't really like him.

Davii
12-15-2014, 06:02 PM
I hate her BF more than you, but more importantly, I have two other daughters... there's still time.












j/k. You have no chance in hell. And I don't hate her BF - I just don't really like him.

:lol: sorry buffalo, that was funny

Shazam!
12-15-2014, 06:42 PM
It's just amazing to me, because once upon a time if you told me or anyone else here that the Denver Broncos wouldn't be able to beat Seattle or NE I'd have said you were crazy.

Davii
12-15-2014, 09:55 PM
It's just amazing to me, because once upon a time if you told me or anyone else here that the Denver Broncos wouldn't be able to beat Seattle or NE I'd have said you were crazy.

I still say anyone that thinks there's no chance is a nut job.

7DnBrnc53
12-16-2014, 12:58 AM
If Denver goes to NE, they need to play to win. No *****-footing around and feeling them out early on. No crap like Miami did yesterday, when they ran on 3rd and 6, and then had their FG blocked for a TD.

Denver needs to believe they can win. I know that sounds obvious, but NE wins by getting in team's heads and on mystique more than they do talent. They aren't more talented than the Broncos.

Valar Morghulis
12-16-2014, 02:32 AM
The Broncos will win in Foxboro.

I am so confident, if they don't - I will leave this forum

Northman
12-16-2014, 05:37 AM
The Broncos will win in Foxboro.

I am so confident, if they don't - I will leave this forum

It was very nice knowing you Dave. Be well.

Valar Morghulis
12-16-2014, 06:12 AM
It was very nice knowing you Dave. Be well.

Lol oh ye of little faith. You won't be getting rid of me.

I am betting on the law of averages......Lmao

BroncoWave
12-16-2014, 08:46 AM
I am betting on the law of averages......Lmao

What do you mean by that exactly, Dave?

Davii
12-16-2014, 09:04 AM
Lol oh ye of little faith. You won't be getting rid of me.

I am betting on the law of averages......Lmao

I also notice you didn't specify a time frame, like "forever", or "the offseason", or "8 hours".

Smart man Dave.

Valar Morghulis
12-16-2014, 09:04 AM
What do you mean by that exactly, Dave?

That a team as good as Denver can not continue to lose to team in a certain place without turning it around at least once.

Sooner or later that has to change - not just based on luck, but on the ability of our players to just "get it right on the day"

MasterShake
12-16-2014, 09:07 AM
That a team as good as Denver can not continue to lose to team in a certain place without turning it around at least once.

Sooner or later that has to change - not just based on luck, but on the ability of our players to just "get it right on the day"

Just for a little perspective, we knew going in that we had a helluva schedule and that has panned out. We have played 11 of our games against teams with winning records and gone an incredible 9-2. At least you can't claim we aren't battle tested! I am starting to get more confident about our chances should we have to go to Foxboro:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/Neat_zps1572127e.jpg

Source: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat-kirwan/24890924/six-from-sunday-high-number-of-sweeps-broncos-reliance-on-the-run

BroncoWave
12-16-2014, 09:24 AM
That a team as good as Denver can not continue to lose to team in a certain place without turning it around at least once.

Sooner or later that has to change - not just based on luck, but on the ability of our players to just "get it right on the day"

Sure, sooner or later we will win there eventually. But the law of averages doesn't mean we have a better chance of winning there this year just because we are "due" for it. Think of flipping a coin. If it lands on heads 5 times in a row, there is no better chance if it landing on tails the 6th time because it's "due". Still the same 50/50 chance. If anything, I'd say this losing streak there makes it even tougher to win there now because it's probably in the players' heads at this point.

weazel
12-16-2014, 10:15 AM
The Broncos will win in Foxboro.

I am so confident, if they don't - I will leave this forum

Didn't expect your stay to be so short, Dave.

Valar Morghulis
12-16-2014, 10:16 AM
To clarify

My law of averages comment was flippant

I then explained the law of averages, I totally understand probably and chance and get your coin analogy.

I think we will beat the pats in Foxboro this year in the afccg if we both make it - because our team is so talented.

I do not believe in superstition and put my faith in talent. I do not believe a team as talented as ours will lose there again this season.

Northman
12-16-2014, 10:42 AM
That a team as good as Denver can not continue to lose to team in a certain place without turning it around at least once.

Sooner or later that has to change - not just based on luck, but on the ability of our players to just "get it right on the day"

Good point. I got to witness the first time Denver ever won in Baltimore a couple of years ago and it was grand. However, i would of happily given up that game for a win in the playoffs..... :lol:

Valar Morghulis
12-16-2014, 10:52 AM
Good point. I got to witness the first time Denver ever won in Baltimore a couple of years ago and it was grand. However, i would of happily given up that game for a win in the playoffs..... :lol:

Ditto - that loss to Baltimore in 2012 I'd still painful.

That is how the pats will feel this year about us.

Ravage!!!
12-16-2014, 11:28 AM
Weird. I could have sworn that BtB chastised me for stating that Manning looked a bit "off" this year when I stated that over a month ago.

BroncoWave
12-16-2014, 01:11 PM
Weird. I could have sworn that BtB chastised me for stating that Manning looked a bit "off" this year when I stated that over a month ago.

You're right, I did. With more evidence though, I have started to shift toward your view on it a little bit.

Runamok
12-16-2014, 02:14 PM
To clarify

My law of averages comment was flippant

I then explained the law of averages, I totally understand probably and chance and get your coin analogy.

I think we will beat the pats in Foxboro this year in the afccg if we both make it - because our team is so talented.

I do not believe in superstition and put my faith in talent. I do not believe a team as talented as ours will lose there again this season.


Pure gold.

Ravage!!!
12-16-2014, 03:37 PM
You're right, I did. With more evidence though, I have started to shift toward your view on it a little bit.

In all honesty, I was convinced he was off early in the season...and now, I think he's REALLY off. It might be the fact that age is just taking that dramatic effect that it takes on a player. To me, his accuracy has shown signs of regressing. Lately, it's gotten worse. Manning, more so than ANY other player imo, puts more pressure on himself than anyone else. He has a hard time just going out and playing, everything is a giant mind-process. Which, obviously, has made him one of the best to every play the game. But when the physical can't match up with the mental, then I think we start seeing the decline. I think we are seeing a quick decline.

That thinking (or rather, OVER thinking) is why I don't think we can beat the Patriots in NE. I think Manning thinks too much, and the pressure of playing against Belicheck/Brady, gets to him. If it were ANY other QB/coach in the NFL than I think we would be just fine. But for some reason, Brady/Belicheck are in his head. You can just see it when we play against NE...he kind of freezes and pushes. Match that up with (what I feel) are detoriating physical skills, and I don't see a positive outcome.

jhildebrand
12-16-2014, 03:46 PM
Weird. I could have sworn that BtB chastised me for stating that Manning looked a bit "off" this year when I stated that over a month ago.

I thought so too. I posted after the AZ game that he looked off. He took a couple of nasty hits in that game and it seemed to show a week later.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/592253-Broncos-Gameday-Thread-Broncos-vs-Jets-10-12-14?p=2250215#post2250215

BroncoWave
12-16-2014, 03:57 PM
In all honesty, I was convinced he was off early in the season...and now, I think he's REALLY off. It might be the fact that age is just taking that dramatic effect that it takes on a player. To me, his accuracy has shown signs of regressing. Lately, it's gotten worse. Manning, more so than ANY other player imo, puts more pressure on himself than anyone else. He has a hard time just going out and playing, everything is a giant mind-process. Which, obviously, has made him one of the best to every play the game. But when the physical can't match up with the mental, then I think we start seeing the decline. I think we are seeing a quick decline.

That thinking (or rather, OVER thinking) is why I don't think we can beat the Patriots in NE. I think Manning thinks too much, and the pressure of playing against Belicheck/Brady, gets to him. If it were ANY other QB/coach in the NFL than I think we would be just fine. But for some reason, Brady/Belicheck are in his head. You can just see it when we play against NE...he kind of freezes and pushes. Match that up with (what I feel) are detoriating physical skills, and I don't see a positive outcome.

The San Diego game made me feel better since he went out there and played a good game while battling the flu. But yeah, i would also be really surprised if he went into New England and led us to a win. I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong though.

7DnBrnc53
12-16-2014, 04:21 PM
The San Diego game made me feel better since he went out there and played a good game while battling the flu. But yeah, i would also be really surprised if he went into New England and led us to a win. I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong though.

If the running game is there, Denver has a chance. NE isn't as invincible as they have looked. It's just that their competition has been playing bad except for the Packers.

And, Manning may be starting to lose it, but it's not like Brady is a whole lot better. He can beat you with the short passes, but he can't beat anyone deep anymore.

weazel
12-16-2014, 04:23 PM
If the running game is there, Denver has a chance. NE isn't as invincible as they have looked. It's just that their competition has been playing bad except for the Packers.

And, Manning may be starting to lose it, but it's not like Brady is a whole lot better. He can beat you with the short passes, but he can't beat anyone deep anymore.

Brady can run when he needs to though. If Manning has to scramble he just hits the ground. I'm not saying thats wrong, just saying that is one way Brady can help his team that Peyton can't

BroncoWave
12-16-2014, 04:53 PM
Brady can run when he needs to though. If Manning has to scramble he just hits the ground. I'm not saying thats wrong, just saying that is one way Brady can help his team that Peyton can't

Some of Manning's fainting goat sacks would make kyle orton jealous. :lol:

Ravage!!!
12-16-2014, 05:06 PM
If the running game is there, Denver has a chance. NE isn't as invincible as they have looked. It's just that their competition has been playing bad except for the Packers.

And, Manning may be starting to lose it, but it's not like Brady is a whole lot better. He can beat you with the short passes, but he can't beat anyone deep anymore.
I'll disagree with this. Right now I think Brady is a lot better.

Runamok
12-16-2014, 05:11 PM
I'll disagree with this. Right now I think Brady is a lot better.

I think Rogers is the best QB in football right now, despite his performance against Buffalo.

Ravage!!!
12-16-2014, 05:12 PM
I think Rogers is the best QB in football right now, despite his performance against Buffalo.

Oh I agree with that. Rodgers is playing fantastically. He's the best QB in the NFL right now, and Andrew Luck will be close on his heals next season since he's not far behind right now. But Brady, right now, is playing as well as anyone in the NFL... including Rodgers.

Cugel
12-16-2014, 07:07 PM
I agree with this. There's no such thing as "no chance" in this league. Did anyone think the Ravens would beat us and the Pats two years ago? How about the Giants beating the Pats in the SB twice, including the 18-0 season? If we're in the game, we have a chance, especially with our new offense. I do think we have a mental hang up about playing there, and that will be the biggest obstacle to winning the biggest game of the year in that building.

The Ravens winning the SB was a MUCH bigger shocker than Denver going to N.E. and beating the Pats and then winning the SB (in fact they would be favored in the SB against anybody but the Seahawks, and we saw how well they matched up against them in Seattle this year -- and the SB won't be played in Seattle).

Remember that Baltimore totally backed into the playoffs - like this:


Week 13: With the Ravens cruising at 9-2 and favored to win their Division Pittsburgh came to town - with 3rd-string QB Charlie Batch starting in place of the injured Roethlisberger. The Steelers handed the Ravens their first home loss since December 5, 2010 23-20 and the Ravens fell to 9–3.


Week 14: With a road loss to the Redskins 31-28, the Ravens fell to 9–4 and 0–2 on the road against NFC East teams. Also, it was the first consecutive loss for the Ravens since Week 6 of their 2009 season.

The Ravens fired offensive coordinator Cam Cameron the next day, promoting Jim Caldwell to the position. Things did not look rosy in Baltimore and it would get worse.


Week 15: You all probably remember the Broncos going to Baltimore and crushing the Ravens 34-17, and it wasn't even that close. Broncos led 31-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter and the Ravens scored 14 meaningless points in the 4th to make the score more respectable. Most observers thought the Ravens season was over. I thought so too. With their 3rd straight loss the Ravens fell to 9-5.


Week 16: Ravens went on the road to beat the woeful NY Giants 33-14 and clinched the AFC North at 10-5. Better, but against one of the worser teams in the league.



Week 17: With their playoff berth secured the Ravens rested their starters for much of game and lost 23-17, making their 4 loss in their last five games.

Now I defy anybody to point out anything in this pathetic finish that would indicate they would suddenly go on fire in wild-card weekend and go into Denver and beat the #1 seed 13-3 Broncos, THEN go to N.E. and wallop the Patriots 28-13 after blanking Tom Brady and the Pats in the second half while scoring 21 points themselves, then go to the SB and dominate the 49ers in a game and leading 21-6 at the half before the 1 hour power-outage let the 49ers back into the game.

There was absolutely no indication prior to the playoffs that this Ravens team was anything but an afterthought in the playoffs. Same thing for the Giants who won 2 championships after sneaking into the playoffs at 10-6, twice!

Does this mean the Broncos can do the same? Who knows, but it is possible. They have to get hot in the playoffs and start playing better on offense than they have in recent weeks. And their defense has to keep making takeaways, and they have to figure out a way to stop Gronkowski at some point. But, it's possible, certainly.

7DnBrnc53
12-16-2014, 07:17 PM
Brady can run when he needs to though. If Manning has to scramble he just hits the ground. I'm not saying thats wrong, just saying that is one way Brady can help his team that Peyton can't

Even though he can do it from time to time, that doesn't happen very often. However, the Broncos need to make sure to get push up the middle on third down, not just rush ignorantly from around the ends.

I still say, though, that Brady really can't throw deep that accurately anymore. He has been like his for the last few years.

Ravage!!!
12-18-2014, 01:10 PM
ignorantly. Interesting.

Simple Jaded
12-21-2014, 05:11 AM
The NFL gave that SB to B-more because Ray Ray announced his retirement during the season, everybody knows that.

sneakers
12-21-2014, 06:01 AM
I would say one more year with lots of playing time for Brockembe in 4th quarters

Cugel
12-21-2014, 08:12 AM
The NFL gave that SB to B-more because Ray Ray announced his retirement during the season, everybody knows that.

I assume this is a joke, because if it's not then you would have to be considered batshit insane.

BroncoWave
12-22-2014, 11:48 PM
Welp...

CrazyHorse
12-22-2014, 11:57 PM
The NFL gave that SB to B-more because Ray Ray announced his retirement during the season, everybody knows that.

Let's have Peyton Manning do that and then come out of retirement like Favre :D

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2014, 12:01 AM
If this is his last year, I think Denver would be better off re-signing DThomas, kicking JThomas to the curb (dude is nothing more than a WR anyways), throwing the next season to get our next John Elway n the following draft, and going from there. That way when we waste our second round pick on a guy who won't even play it won't look as bad in 3-4 years.

Shazam!
12-23-2014, 12:13 AM
The headline in local papers should read "Broncos QB Peyton Manning Assaulted In Cincinnati."

He can't even run for his life, he's under incredible duress. Peyton was getting whacked out there. When their OLine gets exposed, Peyton will look awful.

It's all about the OLine. They're friggin awful. And if it weren't for Peyton, this team would be just dead.

jhildebrand
12-23-2014, 12:25 AM
I remember starting a thread when it became possible that Denver could land Manning, asking if people were still ok with Fox as HC. If they can't win it all this year this FO would be wise to not only not worry about Julius as Silk said, but I wouldn't bring Manning back nor Fox or Del Rio. Elevate Gase and begin to see if you have anything in Osweiler and begin to rebuild. I just think Fox can't get out of his way when it counts!

TimHippo
12-23-2014, 01:38 AM
I remember starting a thread when it became possible that Denver could land Manning, asking if people were still ok with Fox as HC. If they can't win it all this year this FO would be wise to not only not worry about Julius as Buff said, but I wouldn't bring Manning back nor Fox or Del Rio. Elevate Gase and begin to see if you have anything in Osweiler and begin to rebuild. I just think Fox can't get out of his way when it counts!

Gase is a milquetoast. He will be a horrible head coach wherever he goes.

Fox has to go.
Manning will eventually be a head coach either in the NFL or in the SEC.

Poet
12-23-2014, 01:49 AM
You guys moved the ball when you were throwing it and not running for the sake of running. I think your coaches are trying to overcorrect for the sins in the SB, and against most teams you simply don't have to. If PM and the WR's get back on the same page and you run more of a no huddle offense, you'll be fine. It feels like the Broncos staff believes that a no-huddle offense has to be about long huge plays, and therefore can't be used a lot since those make the QB susceptible to hits. We blew up a few screens and you guys moved away from them after that and the J. Thomas pick. You can't do that. Being predictable makes immobile guys like Manning sitting ducks. At some point he's going to get blown up, if he can't take one or two huge shots then he's not healthy enough to be out there, and I think he is.

jhildebrand
12-23-2014, 02:01 AM
Gase is a milquetoast. He will be a horrible head coach wherever he goes.

Fox has to go.
Manning will eventually be a head coach either in the NFL or in the SEC.

Gase is milquetoast but manning is HC material? I find that in interesting when most around here cant discern where Gase starts and manning ends. What I do know is Gase dialed up some nice game plans earlier in the year. I also know we probably held on to fox one year too long.

I remember when McCoy was milquetoast, literally called that by Kiszla, and the source of blame for many around here. He is doing OK in San Diego.

I Eat Staples
12-23-2014, 03:37 AM
Gase is milquetoast but manning is HC material? I find that in interesting when most around here cant discern where Gase starts and manning ends. What I do know is Gase dialed up some nice game plans earlier in the year. I also know we probably held on to fox one year too long.

I remember when McCoy was milquetoast, literally called that by Kiszla, and the source of blame for many around here. He is doing OK in San Diego.

I think McCoy is doing exactly what I and most others expected him to do, which is what he's always done and always will do - be average. He's taken a reasonably talented Chargers team to one playoff win, and likely one, maybe two playoff games this year. He hasn't overachieved, he hasn't underachieved. He's the Alex Smith of coaches, because he's going to keep a team competitive enough that they keep trying to make a run, but he probably doesn't have what it takes to win it all.

I do think he's better than Gase will be as a head coach. I would be stunned that anyone would even be interested in Gase as a head coach, but in a league that judges results instead of how you got to those results, it's not that surprising. He'll crash and burn worse than Dennis Allen did.

Northman
12-23-2014, 05:02 AM
You guys moved the ball when you were throwing it and not running for the sake of running. I think your coaches are trying to overcorrect for the sins in the SB, and against most teams you simply don't have to. If PM and the WR's get back on the same page and you run more of a no huddle offense, you'll be fine. It feels like the Broncos staff believes that a no-huddle offense has to be about long huge plays, and therefore can't be used a lot since those make the QB susceptible to hits. We blew up a few screens and you guys moved away from them after that and the J. Thomas pick. You can't do that. Being predictable makes immobile guys like Manning sitting ducks. At some point he's going to get blown up, if he can't take one or two huge shots then he's not healthy enough to be out there, and I think he is.

If Denver just passes the ball Manning would of had 6-7 Ints. No, just passing will not and would not have won that game last night. Shit, without Jeremy Hill's success the Bengals would not have won. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RUN THE BALL. PERIOD. You just cant turn the ball over like we do. People need to quit making excuses for when Manning sucks it up like a cheap whore.

VonDoom
12-23-2014, 08:07 AM
The headline in local papers should read "Broncos QB Peyton Manning Assaulted In Cincinnati."

He can't even run for his life, he's under incredible duress. Peyton was getting whacked out there. When their OLine gets exposed, Peyton will look awful.

It's all about the OLine. They're friggin awful. And if it weren't for Peyton, this team would be just dead.

Thanks for talking some sense here. Remember when we had those discussions about not being able to run because our O-line was designed to pass protect and not run block? Yeah, me neither.

Traveler
12-23-2014, 09:17 AM
Hate to say it, but we are witnessing the decline of Manning similar to that of Champ Bailey. There is definitely something going on within this team that we aren't privy to. All of the picks thrown last night were soley on Manning. I'm firmly in the camp that Father Time has his sights set on Peyton.

Valar Morghulis
12-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Hate to say it, but we are witnessing the decline of Manning similar to that of Champ Bailey. There is definitely something going on within this team that we aren't privy to. All of the picks thrown last night were soley on Manning. I'm firmly in the camp that Father Time has his sights set on Peyton.

Thats what my gut is starting to tell me, and it is horrible to admit it - but then when i watch how easily Vasquez and Clady were getting beat, and how much pressure got to Manning - it makes me wonder that if we had any other Qb - our season would be over already - that thought gives me hope he will be back next year - and able to play at a high level once the O-Line is sorted.

Northman
12-23-2014, 09:28 AM
Hate to say it, but we are witnessing the decline of Manning similar to that of Champ Bailey. There is definitely something going on within this team that we aren't privy to. All of the picks thrown last night were soley on Manning. I'm firmly in the camp that Father Time has his sights set on Peyton.

Now you gone and done it.....

Dreadnought
12-23-2014, 09:35 AM
If Denver just passes the ball Manning would of had 6-7 Ints. No, just passing will not and would not have won that game last night. Shit, without Jeremy Hill's success the Bengals would not have won. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RUN THE BALL. PERIOD. You just cant turn the ball over like we do. People need to quit making excuses for when Manning sucks it up like a cheap whore.

Yeah, this I think. Nobody wants to blame Peyton, but that loss last night is mostly on him. It wasn't just four interceptions, it was four bad interceptions. Badly thrown balls, not deflections, not brilliant defensive plays (well, that first perhaps). He was confused and mentally overmatched throughout the first half as well. That is not fun to watch.

I watched PMFM play brilliantly in Denver v. the 49ers. An epic performance by a master of his craft. Since that day he had a good second half v. the Raiders, and a good 3rd Quarter last night. Aside from that I am afraid he looks old, confused, and on the decline.

Its easier to blame Fox, or Gase, or the O-line (who were also admittedly awful last night). The Bengals are a good team, and we wasted a number of splendid plays by Sanders, Talib, Miller, C.J., Bolden, D.T....some guys played really well. Peyton Manning was not one of them.

BroncoWave
12-23-2014, 09:45 AM
Good post dread. I think many don't want to come to terms with it, but we might finally be seeing the decline of Manning.

Shazam!
12-23-2014, 10:10 AM
He's a statue out there and up until now Peyton masked their deficit at OLine. I swear he's so rattled out there because the protection is just terrible and he has no confidence. He can't even set himself right. The oline is like NYJ bad, I'm telling you.

Defenders are constantly in his face and getting through to him.

He got abused last night people...

broncofaninfla
12-23-2014, 10:14 AM
Our oline pass blocking is putrid. Heck we can't even run the ball without adding additional offensive linemen. Manning in his prime may have been able to make a couple of passes he didn't make last night but regardless the offensive has to play better, just not sure they are capable of dong so.

VonDoom
12-23-2014, 11:06 AM
He's a statue out there and up until now Peyton masked their deficit at OLine. I swear he's so rattled out there because the protection is just terrible and he has no confidence. He can't even set himself right. The oline is like NYJ bad, I'm telling you.

Defenders are constantly in his face and getting through to him.

He got abused last night people...

Right. One of the benefits of the new running game has been that defenders didn't have a chance to get near Manning. He was untouched in that Bills game, and they have a tremendous front. It just wasn't happening last night. We were behind and had to pass more, which led to more opportunities for the defense to tee off on Manning. But they were on him from the beginning and he was definitely rattled. He can't stand there and take big hits at his age.

VonDoom
12-23-2014, 11:32 AM
trey wingo ‏@wingoz 21m21 minutes ago

in the dry 3rd quarter Peyton was throwing dimes. Once the ball got heavy in the rain..MARKED difference. In those conditions they must run

weazel
12-23-2014, 11:38 AM
My brother is in town and he wanted to play pool so I didnt watch after the 1st quarter, how many fainting goats were there?

Shazam!
12-23-2014, 11:44 AM
Teams that get dominated up front on either side are going to get beaten badly.

Our beloved Super Broncos dominated on OLine and that's why they had so much success.

This offensive line SUCKS so badly, and people and 'experts and analysts' are all asking what's wrong with Peyton. Lol

VonDoom
12-23-2014, 11:57 AM
Teams that get dominated up front on either side are going to get beaten badly.

Our beloved Super Broncos dominated on OLine and that's why they had so much success.

This offensive line SUCKS so badly, and people and 'experts and analysts' are all asking what's wrong with Peyton. Lol

Generally I agree with this, especially with an immobile QB. The one current exception to this rule seems to be Seattle - their O-line is terrible, and Wilson is running for his life every game. His skill set makes up for that deficiency, though, and obviously having an all world defense helps.

BroncoWave
12-23-2014, 12:05 PM
Teams that get dominated up front on either side are going to get beaten badly.

Our beloved Super Broncos dominated on OLine and that's why they had so much success.

This offensive line SUCKS so badly, and people and 'experts and analysts' are all asking what's wrong with Peyton. Lol

Those picks were all bad throws. Yes the line was bad, but he still has to make better throws and decisions than that.

Mike
12-23-2014, 12:09 PM
Teams that get dominated up front on either side are going to get beaten badly.

Our beloved Super Broncos dominated on OLine and that's why they had so much success.

This offensive line SUCKS so badly, and people and 'experts and analysts' are all asking what's wrong with Peyton. Lol

O-line is certainly part of it. But not all. This is what I got from last night.

- O-line is bad.

- Manning's decision making is bad, really bad at times. I am beginning to side with the people who question his clutchness and call him a choker.

- Our coaches suck. We started having success in the 3rd and they abandoned it once we got the lead. They are predictable and unoriginal. It is always the same with these guys on the road against good teams, slow/sluggish/sloppy play with no intensity. They talk about toughness and run game, but don't follow through. The team gets by most with talent, but the coaches will fail this team every time there is a big game against a good team.

- Without Marshall our defense is screwed. We have no hope of covering any team with talent at the TE position and the middle of the defense is ripe to be raped by a good running team.

- Moore can't have a game like last night again. He was really bad.

- ST coach should be fired. They have been consistently bad all year.

- I don't really care to see that officiating crew again.

I am sure there was more, but those were the ones I remember off the top of my head....other than to think this team won't sniff the SB. It looks like the window is closed.

Nomad
12-23-2014, 12:10 PM
Those picks were all bad throws. Yes the line was bad, but he still has to make better throws and decisions than that.

Yeah, no more excuses for Manning. He's supposed to be a HOF QB playing in a game that would have secured, at least the #2 spot. Bengals were playing in the rain too, so that excuse is petty as well.

VonDoom
12-23-2014, 12:15 PM
O-line is certainly part of it. But not all. This is what I got from last night.

- O-line is bad.

- Manning's decision making is bad, really bad at times. I am beginning to side with the people who question his clutchness and call him a choker.

- Our coaches suck. We started having success in the 3rd and they abandoned it once we got the lead. They are predictable and unoriginal. It is always the same with these guys on the road against good teams, slow/sluggish/sloppy play with no intensity. They talk about toughness and run game, but don't follow through. The team gets by most with talent, but the coaches will fail this team every time there is a big game against a good team.

- Without Marshall our defense is screwed. We have no hope of covering any team with talent at the TE position and the middle of the defense is ripe to be raped by a good running team.

- Moore can't have a game like last night again. He was really bad.

- ST coach should be fired. They have been consistently bad all year.

- I don't really care to see that officiating crew again.

I am sure there was more, but those were the ones I remember off the top of my head....other than to think this team won't sniff the SB. It looks like the window is closed.

Can't really argue with any of this, except maybe the "Manning is a choker" talking point. Coaching has been poor all year; they have this new running game they've built up, but they either abandon it when needed (like, say, the 4th quarter last night) or overuse it so much that we become too predictable (run/run/pass/punt). Special teams is a train wreck and has been all year.

Manning is declining, and I think you hit the nail on the head here - decision making. In the past, he could probably compensate with talent, but he can't force throws right now with the way he's throwing the ball.

Nomad
12-23-2014, 12:20 PM
Before Manning became a BRONCO, most BRONCO fans considered Manning as a choker in the big games.

Shazam!
12-23-2014, 12:31 PM
The picks are bad because he is afraid of getting killed. He has zero escapability. Sure those throws were ugly but just read his body language and it's all telling.

An immobile QB under constant pressure will look terrible. Manning included.

jhildebrand
12-23-2014, 12:32 PM
I think McCoy is doing exactly what I and most others expected him to do, which is what he's always done and always will do - be average. He's taken a reasonably talented Chargers team to one playoff win, and likely one, maybe two playoff games this year. He hasn't overachieved, he hasn't underachieved. He's the Alex Smith of coaches, because he's going to keep a team competitive enough that they keep trying to make a run, but he probably doesn't have what it takes to win it all.

The point I was making is the same things being said about Gase were being said about McCoy prior to his departure. Nobody around here could stand him and besides "Manning is basically the offensive coordinator" around here anyway. Well the reality is McCoy has taken a San Diego team riddled with injuries to the Playoffs and is about to take another injury riddled team to the playoffs. He has some masterful wins on his resume, one being a Thursday Night game against Denver in Denver when their team needed the win to get in. Another was against a Seattle team Manning and Denver can't seem to figure out. So I am not sure I would argue average.

The other is those who, on one hand argue, that Manning is basically the OC but then when things go poorly argue on the other that the OC is a bigger part of the blame. People can't have it both ways.



I do think he's better than Gase will be as a head coach. I would be stunned that anyone would even be interested in Gase as a head coach, but in a league that judges results instead of how you got to those results, it's not that surprising. He'll crash and burn worse than Dennis Allen did.

Short of seeing what situation Gase will land in, I can't say. In the right situation Gase will thrive! He has had some masterful game plans and calls. Gase got more out of Cutler as a QB coach than any other coach has to date. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

BroncoWave
12-23-2014, 12:38 PM
The picks are bad because he is afraid of getting killed. He has zero escapability. Sure those throws were ugly but just read his body language and it's all telling.

An immobile QB under constant pressure will look terrible. Manning included.

I'm sorry but if he's afraid to get hit, that's just not good enough. He's getting paid over 100 million bucks. He has to stand in there and make those throws. If he's playing scared to get hit, he should retire.

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2014, 12:42 PM
Maybe Kapernick will be available. That dude can run.

jhildebrand
12-23-2014, 12:44 PM
All we are hearing is Manning and what may be his decline. I am not so certain of that. However, for once, I would like to see him trust in his staff and run the plays called more often. Get to the LOS and get the ball snapped with more than 1-2 seconds on the play clock. Trust in the game plan. I can't help but wonder how things could be different with more game time by virtue of not letting the clock run every single possession. Also, sometimes I think all of his gesturing and moving in and out of formations can help the defense. They can catch their breath which is huge for a team with pass rushers like Cinci. They have more of a chance to get set, communicate, as well as diagnose what the offense is doing.

Cinci certainly seemed to know what Denver was doing and what some of their signals were.

Shazam!
12-23-2014, 12:47 PM
The picks are bad because he is afraid of getting killed. He has zero escapability. Sure those throws were ugly but just read his body language and it's all telling.

An immobile QB under constant pressure will look terrible. Manning included.

I'm sorry but if he's afraid to get hit, that's just not good enough. He's getting paid over 100 million bucks. He has to stand in there and make those throws. If he's playing scared to get hit, he should retire.

He has zero chance of dropping back and being able to hang back, set up or step up in even the best conditions. I didn't even say he was afraid to get hit, how many throws did he make and get smashed right afterwards?

Nomad
12-23-2014, 12:50 PM
He has zero chance of dropping back and being able to hang back, set up or step up in even the best conditions. I didn't even say he was afraid to get hit, how many throws did he make and get smashed right afterwards?

Most QBs can scramble, and it makes the oline look better than what they are. Last night, the BRONCOS came in disinterested in winning.

BroncoWave
12-23-2014, 12:51 PM
He has zero chance of dropping back and being able to hang back, set up or step up in even the best conditions. I didn't even say he was afraid to get hit, how many throws did he make and get smashed right afterwards?

You said "he is afraid of getting killed". That sounds alot like saying he's scared of getting hit.

Poet
12-23-2014, 01:25 PM
I don't think it's an excuse for Manning so much as the reality. You had success on the deep balls and an opened up offense. When you ball small ball and everyone knows it, that's a problem. He was horrible last night and did lose you the game, there is no doubt.

weazel
12-23-2014, 01:26 PM
done like dinner

Valar Morghulis
12-23-2014, 01:30 PM
The other thing that gives me hope is how bad Brady was for the first 4 weeks of the season. When Pags and WTE were ovrerreacting about his decline - his form was no worse than Mannings.

Great players (which they both are) have a habit of finding a way to come back and prove people wrong. BUT - if Manning can not, he needs to retire, otherwise a legend will die on his feet and it will be horrible to watch.

I have never bought the "choke" artist argument, even in Indy - but one thing is for sure, he does not have fighting attitude of Elway (or even Brady - or dare i say it Rivers). I think if he even pretended to be more "up for a fight" - it would lift the players and fans.

When Ronald De Boer (a world class dutch midfielder) signed for Rangers - the stupid scottish fans hated him at first, because he did not seem to try (he waas, but he never chased a ball if it was running out of the pitch etc) - the manager at the time told him to pretend to make an effort for lost causes, all of a sudden he became a true leader on the field and a fan favourite. All he had to do was change his body language and make some tackles (that he had no chance of getting the ball).

Just read, that back, it does not seem as relevant as it did when i started to type it - but i will leave it in for your reading pleasure

Poet
12-23-2014, 01:30 PM
Ignore Weazel, he spent months complaining about how our Blackhawks sucked and had no chance...we won the Cup that year. Weazel one of the most solid posters ever, yet the sky is always falling, which I'm guilty of seeing a lot, too. No diss, much love.

Dreadnought
12-23-2014, 01:39 PM
All we are hearing is Manning and what may be his decline. I am not so certain of that. However, for once, I would like to see him trust in his staff and run the plays called more often. Get to the LOS and get the ball snapped with more than 1-2 seconds on the play clock. Trust in the game plan. I can't help but wonder how things could be different with more game time by virtue of not letting the clock run every single possession. Also, sometimes I think all of his gesturing and moving in and out of formations can help the defense. They can catch their breath which is huge for a team with pass rushers like Cinci. They have more of a chance to get set, communicate, as well as diagnose what the offense is doing.

Cinci certainly seemed to know what Denver was doing and what some of their signals were.

This is a great point. I have thought for years that the magic formula for beating Manning would be for a defense to constantly show him the wrong look, as in, defenses they had no intention of running, then switching up whenever he looked like he was audibaling. If you really do your homework you might in theory get him to call the exact play you want him to call by showing a look that would cause him to call a certain play, which you were fully prepared to defend. I think the Bengals did that in the first half, like the Seahawks did in the SB.

Northman
12-23-2014, 01:42 PM
Ignore Weazel, he spent months complaining about how our Blackhawks sucked and had no chance...we won the Cup that year. Weazel one of the most solid posters ever, yet the sky is always falling, which I'm guilty of seeing a lot, too. No diss, much love.

Yea, but the Blackhawks do suck.

PatriotsGuy
12-23-2014, 01:44 PM
The other thing that gives me hope is how bad Brady was for the first 4 weeks of the season. When Pags and WTE were ovrerreacting about his decline - his form was no worse than Mannings.



Except I wasn't being serious, and was more parodying the doom and gloomers. The O line definitely needed to be tweaked, though.

Poet
12-23-2014, 01:45 PM
Yea, but the Blackhawks do suck.

Goodness no.

weazel
12-23-2014, 01:48 PM
Ignore Weazel, he spent months complaining about how our Blackhawks sucked and had no chance...we won the Cup that year. Weazel one of the most solid posters ever, yet the sky is always falling, which I'm guilty of seeing a lot, too. No diss, much love.

I never said they sucked... I said they were soft. Very soft.

Poet
12-23-2014, 01:52 PM
I never said they sucked... I said they were soft. Very soft.

And they weren't. Ever. :D

VonDoom
12-23-2014, 01:53 PM
This is a great point. I have thought for years that the magic formula for beating Manning would be for a defense to constantly show him the wrong look, as in, defenses they had no intention of running, then switching up whenever he looked like he was audibaling. If you really do your homework you might in theory get him to call the exact play you want him to call by showing a look that would cause him to call a certain play, which you were fully prepared to defend. I think the Bengals did that in the first half, like the Seahawks did in the SB.

Did this happen when he was in Indy? Or did it just take teams 15+ years to "figure out" Manning? Because I'm not disagreeing with the point - teams are making a conscious effort to hide their looks when we get to the LOS. It's a smart thing to do to Manning. Now, can we adjust to that? I have my doubts when it comes to our coaching staff.

Valar Morghulis
12-23-2014, 01:56 PM
We adjust by using the hurry up.

We adjust by trusting the game plan, and not audibling every play.

We adjust by going back to the original play once the D move.

I think that will be easy enough to overcome.

weazel
12-23-2014, 01:57 PM
And they weren't. Ever. :D

oh they were very soft... like the underbelly of a puppy. They just play a great puck control game and have highly skilled players that can get away without playing physically. You can look at the stats of every game, on average they are out-hit 5 to 1 each and every game. That is soft, I'm not saying its necessarily bad, when you control the puck 70-80% or the time you are going to get out-hit. It does take a toll after a while so thats why I said it will be hard to win a Stanley Cup.

Poet
12-23-2014, 01:59 PM
Soft isn't a manner or style of play so much as an attitude. You can't quantify grit, determination, and guts. Toews getting beaten on constantly, that's tough. Kane was tough as nail. Hossa, king of tough. They went on and on and on. Never soft.

No biggie, and off-topic. Much love.

Denver will be fine this year, but I do think Manning will retire at the end of it. 3

weazel
12-23-2014, 02:01 PM
Soft isn't a manner or style of play so much as an attitude. You can't quantify grit, determination, and guts. Toews getting beaten on constantly, that's tough. Kane was tough as nail. Hossa, king of tough. They went on and on and on. Never soft.

No biggie, and off-topic. Much love.

Denver will be fine this year, but I do think Manning will retire at the end of it. 3

I think he comes back for one more season. Will he finish it though?

Poet
12-23-2014, 02:02 PM
I think he comes back for one more season. Will he finish it though?

After great usage of HGH and deer urine...of course.

jhildebrand
12-24-2014, 01:57 PM
The only scenario where I see Manning coming back for another season is if they win the Super Bowl this year!

weazel
12-24-2014, 02:01 PM
The only scenario where I see Manning coming back for another season is if they win the Super Bowl this year!

so... no.

chazoe60
12-24-2014, 02:29 PM
What will life after Manning look like? Oz might be the guy, unlike some I'm not gonna proclaim to know that he sucks because of three plays at the end of a half, but at the same time odds are that Oz won't be the guy. The vast majority of QBs don't pan out as franchise guys, especially guys who were backups to legends. So, for the sake of argument let's say Oz isn't anything other than a backup where do you think the team goes? We have a shit ton of talent and I'd hate to see it go to waste because we don't have a qb.

Is there a free agent on the horizon (next year or two)that would fit? What about a trade? Do we go with a draft pick?

What is Roethlisberger's contract status? I could see Big Ben as a guy Elway would love (playstyle wise). I doubt we could get him from Pitt but shit I never thought PFM would be the Broncos QB either.

Nomad
12-24-2014, 02:40 PM
The only scenario where I see Manning coming back for another season is if they win the Super Bowl this year!

It seems he'd ride off into the sunset.

Nomad
12-24-2014, 02:42 PM
What will life after Manning look like? Oz might be the guy, unlike some I'm not gonna proclaim to know that he sucks because of three plays at the end of a half, but at the same time odds are that Oz won't be the guy. The vast majority of QBs don't pan out as franchise guys, especially guys who were backups to legends. So, for the sake of argument let's say Oz isn't anything other than a backup where do you think the team goes? We have a shit ton of talent and I'd hate to see it go to waste because we don't have a qb.

Is there a free agent on the horizon (next year or two)that would fit? What about a trade? Do we go with a draft pick?

What is Roethlisberger's contract status? I could see Big Ben as a guy Elway would love (playstyle wise). I doubt we could get him from Pitt but shit I never thought PFM would be the Broncos QB either.

Good questions! It'll be interesting.

chazoe60
12-24-2014, 02:46 PM
Good questions! It'll be interesting.

I honestly think Elway has built a team that is good enough to contend with any above average QB. Obviously in today's NFL no team can compete without a good QB but I don't necessarily think we have to have a Manning type, but we can't scrape the bottom of the barrel either or waste good talent waiting for a guy like Oz to develop. If Oz isn't the guy we need to figure that out quick. I'd love it if he ended up being the guy but like I said before the odds are just against it.

Nomad
12-24-2014, 03:10 PM
I honestly think Elway has built a team that is good enough to contend with any above average QB. Obviously in today's NFL no team can compete without a good QB but I don't necessarily think we have to have a Manning type, but we can't scrape the bottom of the barrel either or waste good talent waiting for a guy like Oz to develop. If Oz isn't the guy we need to figure that out quick. I'd love it if he ended up being the guy but like I said before the odds are just against it.

How will they know unless Oz gets playing time and experience on the field in live games against another team's #1 defense?

BroncoWave
12-24-2014, 03:15 PM
How will they know unless Oz gets playing time and experience on the field in live games against another team's #1 defense?

I don't think he was suggesting we shouldn't give Oz any time at all to develop. Just that once he does start playing, we need to figure out quickly if he has it or not. He'll be long past being a rookie when he finally does get to play, so I think we'll find out pretty quickly what he has.

Nomad
12-24-2014, 03:20 PM
I don't think he was suggesting we shouldn't give Oz any time at all to develop. Just that once he does start playing, we need to figure out quickly if he has it or not. He'll be long past being a rookie when he finally does get to play, so I think we'll find out pretty quickly what he has.

I understand. Nothing can substitute live field experience.

Northman
12-24-2014, 03:25 PM
What will life after Manning look like? Oz might be the guy, unlike some I'm not gonna proclaim to know that he sucks because of three plays at the end of a half, but at the same time odds are that Oz won't be the guy. The vast majority of QBs don't pan out as franchise guys, especially guys who were backups to legends. So, for the sake of argument let's say Oz isn't anything other than a backup where do you think the team goes? We have a shit ton of talent and I'd hate to see it go to waste because we don't have a qb.

Is there a free agent on the horizon (next year or two)that would fit? What about a trade? Do we go with a draft pick?

What is Roethlisberger's contract status? I could see Big Ben as a guy Elway would love (playstyle wise). I doubt we could get him from Pitt but shit I never thought PFM would be the Broncos QB either.


The talent we have is young enough to where if Denver wanted to draft one or trade for another young QB they could do it. Who would they go after? No idea but i just dont hope we get stupid and pull a Ricky Williams or RG3 deal where it cost us in other areas.

BroncoWave
12-24-2014, 03:25 PM
Personally, I fear the absolute worst because he just doesn't look like he has much talent in the, admittedly, few times he's gotten on the field and in preseason games. Now he should still absolutely get his shot to prove himself, but I would be really really surprised if he pans out. I truly do hope he does, but I just don't see it.

VonDoom
12-24-2014, 03:30 PM
Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 5m5 minutes ago

Manning said "I plan on being back if broncos want me. I am enjoying playing. I have no thought of (not coming back)"

Denver Native (Carol)
12-24-2014, 04:10 PM
Peyton Manning has two more years left on his contract and he’s stated previously he plans on playing out that contract.

But because he’s 38 years old, and because those final two years are not guaranteed, there’s always a question how much longer he will play. Manning said during his press conference Wednesday he does not plan on retiring any time soon.

“I certainly plan on being back if the Broncos will have me,” Manning said. “At this point I’m thinking about Oakland. I know this is the time when there are conversations about what coaches are going to return. For some reason I guess I get to fall into that category because maybe I’m closer to the same age as some of the coaches. But I have no plans along those lines. I’m enjoying playing and looking forward to Sunday’s game and the game to follow that.”

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/12/24/peyton-manning-says-plans-playing-next-year/31714/

Davii
12-24-2014, 04:24 PM
I would love to have Manning back. There is not a better option available to this team. Period.

Mike
12-24-2014, 04:34 PM
I would love to have Manning back. There is not a better option available to this team. Period.

For as down as I am about the team, I agree. I just hope that Elway makes the oline priority #1 this offseason.

I still think that a better coaching staff could get more out of the team though. :D

BroncoWave
12-24-2014, 04:35 PM
I would love to have Manning back. There is not a better option available to this team. Period.

Assuming he does come back, our absolute top priority has to be fixing the o-line this offseason. Manning is still deadly when he is well-protected, but there's just not much he can do when he's running for his life. If Elway can add to the o-line this offseason in the same way he added to the defense for this year, we will be in good shape.

BroncoWave
12-24-2014, 04:36 PM
For as down as I am about the team, I agree. I just hope that Elway makes the oline priority #1 this offseason.

I still think that a better coaching staff could get more out of the team though. :D

Beat me to it. Agree on the second point as well.

Timmy!
12-24-2014, 04:41 PM
18 is going to crush it after the bye week. Just watch.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-24-2014, 04:44 PM
Interesting to me that some are down on the coaching staff, but nationally they are stating that the Broncos' could lose both coordinators, and I would bet that #7 has no plans whatsoever of replacing Fox.

DenBronx
12-24-2014, 04:59 PM
Fox wont and shouldnt get replaced.

#dumbfans

Valar Morghulis
12-24-2014, 05:06 PM
Fox wont and shouldnt get replaced.

#dumbfans

I guess it depends on who they could replace him with.

A while back someone started a thread about promoting Gase - I guess people no longer want that.

I don't know who is available that would do a better job.

Northman
12-24-2014, 05:08 PM
Fox wont get replaced unless the team starts tanking it (next year) but he does have the luxury of having Peyton Manning, at least for now.

Shazam!
12-24-2014, 05:26 PM
Peyton Manning knows he can still perform at a high level. I 100% believe Elway and Co. have already begun the offseason and evaluating FA OLine personnel and through the Draft.

I believe the Broncos have fielded one if the worst Line units this year.

Dreadnought
12-24-2014, 05:32 PM
For as down as I am about the team, I agree. I just hope that Elway makes the oline priority #1 this offseason.

I still think that a better coaching staff could get more out of the team though. :D

There is no better coaching staff :D

BroncoWave
12-24-2014, 05:42 PM
Peyton Manning knows he can still perform at a high level. I 100% believe Elway and Co. have already begun the offseason and evaluating FA OLine personnel and through the Draft.

I believe the Broncos have fielded one if the worst Line units this year.

If we do draft an o-lineman high, it needs to be someone who can start and perform well from day 1. We don't really have the luxury of developing someone with Manning having 2 years left at most. I feel like that's a position that will be addressed more through free agency. Although I don't really know who is available.

Simple Jaded
12-24-2014, 07:57 PM
O Line and MLB 1 and 2 in any order. Also, I could not agree more on the different coaching staff comment.

J I honestly think LB is loaded, gotta have Marshall, Trevathon and Miller in the starting lineup.

tomjonesrocks
12-24-2014, 08:14 PM
I would love to have Manning back. There is not a better option available to this team. Period.

However emotional it is to see things not go as expected the last several weeks -- agreed.

Assuming Denver washes out early in the POs as many of us expect, would rather see Elway try to double down on personnel magic and help the Oline and Manning give it one last try.

Awful seeing Manning have to spend the twilight of his career behind this mess.

silkamilkamonico
12-25-2014, 12:47 PM
please, no more 2nd round picks on guys who don't even play.

jhildebrand
12-26-2014, 04:36 PM
J I honestly think LB is loaded, gotta have Marshall, Trevathon and Miller in the starting lineup.

I like McCray a lot. Quanterus too. However, Marshall, and especially Trevathan, have shown they can't make it through a 16 game slate. In fact, with the injuries Trevathan has had all year, I have some serious reservations about him long term.

Valar Morghulis
12-26-2014, 04:53 PM
I like McCray a lot. Quanterus too. However, Marshall, and especially Trevathan, have shown they can't make it through a 16 game slate. In fact, with the injuries Trevathan has had all year, I have some serious reservations about him long term.

get some HGH in him and he will be golden

Simple Jaded
12-26-2014, 08:26 PM
I like McCray a lot. Quanterus too. However, Marshall, and especially Trevathan, have shown they can't make it through a 16 game slate. In fact, with the injuries Trevathan has had all year, I have some serious reservations about him long term.
Won't argu they need to add depth, even if that means a high pick, I just like Miller-Marshall-Trevathon lineup .

ShaneFalco
12-26-2014, 09:22 PM
just have manning hand off to Gurley next year.

Ravage!!!
01-02-2015, 07:07 PM
No first round picks on a RB...its such a waste.

BroncoWave
01-02-2015, 07:10 PM
No first round picks on a RB...its such a waste.

No doubt. I feel like it almost has to be OL, LB, or maybe S in round 1 unless there is just a great talent sitting there at another position.

ShaneFalco
01-02-2015, 07:19 PM
gurley was hurt, so good chance he will fall to 30+ in first round.