McManus is back!

[BroncoWave]

Just saw it come across twitter. He was added to the practice squad. Good to see. I would imagine he is added back to the active squad if Barth struggles on kickoffs at home.

[BroncoWave]

Link:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27068703/broncos-re-sign-k-brandon-mcmanus-practice-squad

[GEM]

But we're so stupid...what?

[BroncoJoe]

It's the practice squad. If anything, they see his potential as a FG kicker and acknowledge his strong leg. I doubt it has anything to do with punting....

Just saying.

[BroncoWave]

It's the practice squad. If anything, they see his potential as a FG kicker and acknowledge his strong leg. I doubt it has anything to do with punting....

Just saying.

Who said anything about punting? I've said multiple times recently he should at least be brought back as a 3rd kicker just to kick off if nothing else.

[GEM]

It's the practice squad. If anything, they see his potential as a FG kicker and acknowledge his strong leg. I doubt it has anything to do with punting....

Just saying.

Read the other thread....Elway has already said McManus would be back and probably doing kickoffs...


Re: McManus - According to Brown, Elway said they "were definitely hoping to bring McManus back before the end of the season". Elway was "high on McManus" but that "the moment was too big for him." Elway, via Brown: "He may be back before the end of the season as our kickoff guy."

from this thread: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/594268-Chad-Brown-on-104-3-The-Fan-Elway-information

[GEM]

So what does this do with the 7th rounder to the Giants?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos are concerned enough about their kickoff length to at least bring Brandon McManus back into the building.

He's not on the 53-man roster, but McManus has been re-signed to the Broncos' practice squad. To make room for McManus, the Broncos released defensive end Gerald Rivers from their practice squad.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27068703/broncos-re-sign-k-brandon-mcmanus-practice-squad

[GEM]

:laugh: I find this just too ******* funny after being told I basically didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the returns and asked if I needed cramp medicine. Villified, mothertrucker! :D

[VonDoom]

Good. Gives us a chance to watch him develop without fear of another team picking him up and doing the same. Based on that other thread, I can definitely see us bringing him up for kickoffs, maybe as soon as after this game (depending on how Barth does this week).

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 17m

Brandon McManus was 48 of 64 in touchbacks (75 pct). He was also 9 of 13 in FGs (69.2). Connor is 5 of 5 in FGs; 0 of 8 in touchbacks

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 2m

As expected after #Chiefs started 7 of 8 drives following kickoffs at the 31 or better Sunday -- #Broncos signed McManus to practice squad.

[Valar Morghulis]

can other teams sign players from the practice squad?

[BroncoWave]

can other teams sign players from the practice squad?

Yes, but they have to sign him to the active 53 man roster. They can't sign him to their practice squad.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

So what does this do with the 7th rounder to the Giants?


The condition: If McManus was on the Broncos roster in their fifth game, Denver would have to send its seventh-round pick to the Giants.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/10/12/giants-officially-get-7th-round-draft-brandon-mcmanus/30204/

[I Eat Staples]

I'm sure we could deactivate some depth player who should never see the field in order to have him kick touchbacks. Just don't let him near the ball unless it's on a tee.

[DenBronx]

I remember when we had a kicker that had a booming leg, actually tied the FG record, always had touchbacks and was clutch.

Anyone remember that guy? You know...the one we had last season and could do BOTH jobs. Smdh

[BroncoJoe]

I've said from the get-go we let him go too soon. Kid has potential - something I've been saying all along. To have three kickers on the roster is beyond stupid. Obviously, my opinion.

[BroncoWave]

I've said from the get-go we let him go too soon. Kid has potential - something I've been saying all along. To have three kickers on the roster is beyond stupid. Obviously, my opinion.

What's stupid about it? What gives our team more value? Having a guy that can kick every kickoff out of the endzone and really help us with field position, or a guy like caldwell who does nothing but drop passes and return kickoffs to the 12.

[Buff]

I've said from the get-go we let him go too soon. Kid has potential - something I've been saying all along. To have three kickers on the roster is beyond stupid. Obviously, my opinion.

Shanny had Elam kicking FGs and Prater kicking off at the end of his tenure. Normally I agree with you and no team will break camp with 3 kickers, but at this stage in the season when you basically know your depth and there isn't a ton of talent floating around with injuries depleting other rosters, then I don't mind getting more value out of that spot.

[BroncoWave]

Shanny had Elam kicking FGs and Prater kicking off at the end of his tenure. Normally I agree with you and no team will break camp with 3 kickers, but at this stage in the season when you basically know your depth and there isn't a ton of talent floating around with injuries depleting other rosters, then I don't mind getting more value out of that spot.

Exactly. Not something you should do long term, but when you have dead weight on your active roster with no better replacements out there, it's not a bad time to add a guy who can actually contribute in an important part of the game.

Now when the season ends, I think we will be looking at both the kicker and punter positions pretty closely. Would not surprise me to have two new guys in those roles next year.

[BroncoJoe]

Shanny had Elam kicking FGs and Prater kicking off at the end of his tenure. Normally I agree with you and no team will break camp with 3 kickers, but at this stage in the season when you basically know your depth and there isn't a ton of talent floating around with injuries depleting other rosters, then I don't mind getting more value out of that spot.

Two kickers. Not three. I think it's a waste.

Again guys - it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to win an argument here.

[BroncoWave]

So, in your opinion then, Andre Caldwell currently helps our chances of winning more than having McManus kick off would?

[Valar Morghulis]

So, in your opinion then, Andre Caldwell currently helps our chances of winning more than having McManus kick off would?

I improve our chances of winning compared to Caldwell

[HORSEPOWER 56]

What's stupid about it? What gives our team more value? Having a guy that can kick every kickoff out of the endzone and really help us with field position, or a guy like caldwell who does nothing but drop passes and return kickoffs to the 12.

I guess we'll see this week. If DT can't play and Lattimer is in concussion protocol, Caldwell might just get the start. I'm not saying it like it's a good thing. We do have some banged up positions right now (RB, LB, WR, TE) that are a bigger priority than carrying an extra kicker on the active roster, IMO.

I'm fine with McManus coming back and being on the practice squad, but he isn't accurate enough to be a full time placekicker and activating him right now (just to kick off) when we're already hurting, is a mistake.

[BroncoJoe]

So, in your opinion then, Andre Caldwell currently helps our chances of winning more than having McManus kick off would?


Two kickers. Not three. I think it's a waste.

Again guys - it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to win an argument here.

See highlighted text. Not everything has to be an argument, BTB. No one on this message board "wins". That's up to the Broncos.

[Dapper Dan]

Shanny had Elam kicking FGs and Prater kicking off at the end of his tenure. Normally I agree with you and no team will break camp with 3 kickers, but at this stage in the season when you basically know your depth and there isn't a ton of talent floating around with injuries depleting other rosters, then I don't mind getting more value out of that spot.

I thought everyone said Shanny was an idiot.

[chazoe60]

I would love to see McManus groomed as a possible punter/kicker. Unlike some I like Colquitt but the advantage of having a guy who could both punt and kick would be awesome. I've long wondered why you don't see it. McManus could do it I think with some practice.

[Dapper Dan]

Who said anything about punting? I've said multiple times recently he should at least be brought back as a 3rd kicker just to kick off if nothing else.

What? I must have been reading your posts wrong.

[Dapper Dan]

I would love to see McManus groomed as a possible punter/kicker. Unlike some I like Colquitt but the advantage of having a guy who could both punt and kick would be awesome. I've long wondered why you don't see it. McManus could do it I think with some practice.

The only downside I can see is if he pulls a groin then you have 2 empty spots

[underrated29]

:laugh: I find this just too ******* funny after being told I basically didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the returns and asked if I needed cramp medicine. Villified, mothertrucker! :D



Whoa whoa whoa Gem, dont go patting yourself on the back because you were right about something. Trust me. Ive been there done that. It wont end well

[BroncoJoe]

I would love to see McManus groomed as a possible punter/kicker. Unlike some I like Colquitt but the advantage of having a guy who could both punt and kick would be awesome. I've long wondered why you don't see it. McManus could do it I think with some practice.

Me too.

[Valar Morghulis]

Whoa whoa whoa Gem, dont go patting yourself on the back because you were right about something. Trust me. Ive been there done that. It wont end well

Dont listen to the nay sayers - you enjoy your glory

[underrated29]

As for this. We get a FG kicker in barth and a kickoff specialist (who can learn just like prater did to be accurate) all for a cost less than what we were paying Prater.



We are in a superbowl run this year. Having 3 kickers is fine by me as we should be tweaking the roster in every little way to give us the best advantage in all areas. So add Mcmanus back to roster come playoff time (if barth cant touch it back) and let go of the other RB we signed to active roster instead of bibs. He aint doing jack!!! At least mcmanus can pin teams deep and barth can kick a FG.

Brilliant move imo.

I do near the same in fantasy at this time. I look at all my opponents weaknesses and pick up any player at the position they need help and dump all my handcuffs and guys I will not be starting anyway. Helps me a lil, hurts them a lot, and my backups were never going to play anyway.

[underrated29]

Dont listen to the nay sayers - you enjoy your glory




Sometimes Dave, I think I am a women.


Seriously,........... because I am always right.

[BroncoJoe]

Sometimes Dave, I think I am a women.


Seriously,........... because I am always right.

No, it's because you have no penis!

[underrated29]

No, it's because you have no penis!


LMMFAO!

Well done indeed. I was waiting for a response to which I had a reply ready. This one though was too funny and did not see coming. I salute you!

[Pudge]

:yawn: Mmmmkay dickless wonder.

I thought you had him ignored

[underrated29]

:yawn: Mmmmkay dickless wonder.



No No no, you missed it. Two posts up. I'm the dickless wonder

[Valar Morghulis]

Does it matter? Hop off his jock, pudge...he don't have a dick to ride on.

that is a pretty good put down. I will use this in life and claim it as my own. Thanks!

[GEM]

Just not worth the time...

[Dapper Dan]

What were Elways comments?

Is Barth really signed through 2016?

I'm wondering how all this plays out.

[BroncoWave]

See highlighted text. Not everything has to be an argument, BTB. No one on this message board "wins". That's up to the Broncos.

If you don't want to discuss the topic, then don't post in the ****ing thread. FFS. I wasn't even trying to argue, I wus asking a simple direct question.

[BroncoWave]

What? I must have been reading your posts wrong.

I've recently backed off my stance of bringing him on as a punter after reading some of the arguments against it. Unlike many on here, I'm not so stubborn that I refuse to give in on a point once I've given an initial opinion on it.

[Buff]

Two kickers. Not three. I think it's a waste.

Again guys - it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to win an argument here.

Well it's a good thing Joe because you're losing! :D

[Northman]

:laugh: I find this just too ******* funny after being told I basically didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the returns and asked if I needed cramp medicine. Villified, mothertrucker! :D

Well, MO may not have been worried about the short kickoffs but it seems like Elway and company were. Im glad they are at least taking it seriously in case last week wasnt a fluke.

[BroncoJoe]

If you don't want to discuss the topic, then don't post in the ****ing thread. FFS. I wasn't even trying to argue, I wus asking a simple direct question.

No. You had to be "right". You always have to be right.

[Northman]

I remember when we had a kicker that had a booming leg, actually tied the FG record, always had touchbacks and was clutch.

Anyone remember that guy? You know...the one we had last season and could do BOTH jobs. Smdh

Yea, i remember him. Got suspended and was a question mark going forward.

[MOtorboat]

:laugh: I find this just too ******* funny after being told I basically didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the returns and asked if I needed cramp medicine. Villified, mothertrucker! :D

I think you meant vindicated.

:coffee:

[Northman]

Whoa whoa whoa Gem, dont go patting yourself on the back because you were right about something. Trust me. Ive been there done that. It wont end well

Yea, but you were never actually right. :lol:

[MOtorboat]

Well, MO may not have been worried about the short kickoffs but it seems like Elway and company were. Im glad they are at least taking it seriously in case last week wasnt a fluke.

I said I wasn't concerned with Barth's short kick offs, because I knew they would be short and he was making field goals. If they do actually carry two kickers it solves that problem but eliminates a roster spot. It's not a move that doesn't carry risk.

[Nomad]

It's the practice squad. If anything, they see his potential as a FG kicker and acknowledge his strong leg. I doubt it has anything to do with punting....

Just saying.

He is a rookie that needs more experience, but has a lot of potential.

[TXBRONC]

Who said anything about punting? I've said multiple times recently he should at least be brought back as a 3rd kicker just to kick off if nothing else.

Joe didn't say you did. It was however brought up in another thread.

[Dapper Dan]

No No no, you missed it. Two posts up. I'm the dickless wonder

I bet you're good with your hands though.

[Dapper Dan]

I've recently backed off my stance of bringing him on as a punter after reading some of the arguments against it. Unlike many on here, I'm not so stubborn that I refuse to give in on a point once I've given an initial opinion on it.

I hadn't seen you say that, but it's refreshing. Good on you.

[Dapper Dan]

I never thought McManus would be back on the team. So I was wrong there. It'll be interesting how this plays out. I don't see the team putting him on the PS without the notion of him being on the active roster soon. I think they're evaluating who to cut.

[GEM]

I think you meant vindicated.

:coffee:

You're exactly right. I got that wrong. Duh on me. :)

[WTE]

You're exactly right. I got that wrong. Duh on me. :)

I liked vilified better. Screw Mo. The board librarian.

[Cugel]

So, in your opinion then, Andre Caldwell currently helps our chances of winning more than having McManus kick off would?

Normally, I'd say "hell no!" But Caldwell is not only playing on special teams but he's their WR backup to D.T. so, in case of injury he gets on the field.

You can't cut him at this point of the season. The minute the season ends though. . . . :elefant:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 4h

It makes for an easy transition if #Broncos want to use a kickoff specialist..Barth did not kick off in '11 or '12, had 1 touchback in '10

[Cugel]

Well, MO may not have been worried about the short kickoffs but it seems like Elway and company were. I'm glad they are at least taking it seriously in case last week wasn't a fluke.

Oh, it's no fluke. We'll see this week at home, but having McManus for kickoffs is key. Denver's special teams are horrible generally. Against Miami they basically gave up 10 points - 7 on the fumble on the 12 yard line and 3 on the 33 yard CLANG! off the right upright. Then last week every kickoff was an adventure. None of them approached the goal line. Now in such frigid conditions you're not going to kick it out of the end-zone, but KC's kicker managed to get it to the goal line.

Just don't let McManus try and kick any FG less than 50 yards. Not that he could make a 50 yarder, it's just that Connor Barth has no chance over about 49 yards. Actually, it's highly likely that they just let Peyton go for it on 4th down until they get down to about a 43 yarder.

[BroncoWave]

No. You had to be "right". You always have to be right.

For someone who doesn't want to argue with me you sure can't seem to stop responding to me.

[NightTrainLayne]

I would love to see McManus groomed as a possible punter/kicker. Unlike some I like Colquitt but the advantage of having a guy who could both punt and kick would be awesome. I've long wondered why you don't see it. McManus could do it I think with some practice.

That works great until he gets injured or suspended. Then you have to fill two positions instead of one, on short notice.

[Slick]

Not much confidence in the special teams unit to cover a kickoff. That's not good for a team supposedly making a run for a championship.

[Simple Jaded]

:laugh: I find this just too ******* funny after being told I basically didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the returns and asked if I needed cramp medicine. Villified, mothertrucker! :D

Vilified or vindicated? Mothertruckers?

[GEM]

Vilified or vindicated? Mothertruckers?

Vindicated. Already pointed out by Mo. :lol:

[Dapper Dan]

Big Mother Truckers was a good video game

[Simple Jaded]

Vindicated. Already pointed out by Mo. :lol:

I shoulda read the thread first but my attention defi. . .Hey did y'all's hear they brought McManus back?

[chazoe60]

That works great until he gets injured or suspended. Then you have to fill two positions instead of one, on short notice.

yes but its two of the easier positions to fill. I think, considering how often a kicker gets hurt it would be worth the risk.

[FanInAZ]

I thought you had him ignored

She's a Mod, show she shouldn't be allowed to put anyone on her ignore list because then she would be able to monitor their post to make they're not breaking site rules. However, she's allow to deal with members like they're her annoying younger siblings that her parents have order her to babysit while all of her friends are going to the social even of the year.

I'm defiantly one of the board members on this list of her's. :tsk:

[ShaneFalco]

id rather have Micheal Sam on the PS....

[Pudge]

id rather have Micheal Sam on the PS....

Go to the Eric Garner thread

[Hawgdriver]

If an opponent begins all their drives on the 25 yard line instead of the 20 yard line, that's possibly worth a roster spot. That translates to points over the course of a game. But.. I could see him bouncing from roster back to PS (assuming he's called up) if heaven forbid there are injuries that require roster juggling.

[MOtorboat]

If an opponent begins all their drives on the 25 yard line instead of the 20 yard line, that's possibly worth a roster spot. That translates to points over the course of a game. But.. I could see him bouncing from roster back to PS (assuming he's called up) if heaven forbid there are injuries that require roster juggling.

It's not significant enough to matter in a game. It's so negligible, in fact, according to these numbers, that the impact of missing a field goal far outweighs your opponent starting on the 20 versus the 25.

http://www.nflstatsblog.com/2011/08/fun-fact-chances-of-scoring-based-on.html

We're talking a difference of 1.4-1.5 expected points to 1.5-1.6, if those numbers are accurate. Whereas missing a field goal always equates losing three points.

So Barth scored 15 points while his subsequent kick offs gave up, theoretically, 7. If McManus missed two kicks he gave up six while still allowing just over 7, and creating even an increased chance of points, over 2 per possession with a missed field goal.

[BroncoWave]

It's not significant enough to matter in a game. It's so negligible, in fact, according to these numbers, that the impact of missing a field goal far outweighs your opponent starting on the 20 versus the 25.

http://www.nflstatsblog.com/2011/08/fun-fact-chances-of-scoring-based-on.html

We're talking a difference of 1.4-1.5 expected points to 1.5-1.6, if those numbers are accurate. Whereas missing a field goal always equates losing three points.

So Barth scored 15 points while his subsequent kick offs gave up, theoretically, 7. If McManus missed two kicks he gave up six while still allowing just over 7, and creating even an increased chance of points, over 2 per possession with a missed field goal.

But the debate isn't over who gives us more value between Barth or McManus. It's between McManus or the guy at the end of the roster who we cut to make room for him.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

But the debate isn't over who gives us more value between Barth or McManus. It's between McManus or the guy at the end of the roster who we cut to make room for him.

Why cut anyone? Just IR Ball for heaven's sake and get it over with. Dude has missed so much time already, do the Broncos think he'll really be in game shape when and if he can be healthy enough to play again this season? They rushed him back (apparently) for no reason and now they're holding out hope that he can come back - for what? CJ, Thompson, Stewart and Bibbs are healthy and available to play and we might be getting Hillman back, too. Of all the injured players that we need back, Ball is the absolute least important right now.

**Disclaimer: This is not an indictment of Montee Ball and isn't meant to be negative toward him in any way. I just feel that he's already missed most of the season and his backups are doing well so it's not necessary for him to take an active roster spot when we're already hurting elsewhere.**

[Nomad]

BWave was right from the beginning.:lol:

[VonDoom]

Why cut anyone? Just IR Ball for heaven's sake and get it over with. Dude has missed so much time already, do the Broncos think he'll really be in game shape when and if he can be healthy enough to play again this season? They rushed him back (apparently) for no reason and now they're holding out hope that he can come back - for what? CJ, Thompson, Stewart and Bibbs are healthy and available to play and we might be getting Hillman back, too. Of all the injured players that we need back, Ball is the absolute least important right now.

**Disclaimer: This is not an indictment of Montee Ball and isn't meant to be negative toward him in any way. I just feel that he's already missed most of the season and his backups are doing well so it's not necessary for him to take an active roster spot when we're already hurting elsewhere.**

I agree with all of this. I also think Hillman is closer to coming back, in which case we'd have CJ, Juwan, Hillman and Bibbs/Stewart. Let Ball heal up for next year. However, the issue would be more with which game day spot McManus would take; do we drop the bottom of the roster o-lineman, d-lineman or LB? Depth at those spots would make me nervous if the injuries start piling up.

[BroncoWave]

BWave was right from the beginning.:lol:

It gets old being right all the time but it's a burden I just have to carry I guess. :D

[Ravage!!!]

Not much confidence in the special teams unit to cover a kickoff. That's not good for a team supposedly making a run for a championship.

If you have a kicker kicking flat kicks to the 5-10 yrd line, the special teams unit has NO chance of stopping them before they get to the 30...as we saw in KC. Has zero to do with not having confidence in the ST coverage.

[Ravage!!!]

Why cut anyone? Just IR Ball for heaven's sake and get it over with. Dude has missed so much time already, do the Broncos think he'll really be in game shape when and if he can be healthy enough to play again this season? They rushed him back (apparently) for no reason and now they're holding out hope that he can come back - for what? CJ, Thompson, Stewart and Bibbs are healthy and available to play and we might be getting Hillman back, too. Of all the injured players that we need back, Ball is the absolute least important right now.

**Disclaimer: This is not an indictment of Montee Ball and isn't meant to be negative toward him in any way. I just feel that he's already missed most of the season and his backups are doing well so it's not necessary for him to take an active roster spot when we're already hurting elsewhere.**

He absolutely still has value to this team when healthy...Even as a back up. He's a guy that can come in and protect the QB, and catch out of the backfield, if needed. He's the best blocker in the backfield we have. Even if he's only available for the playoffs, that's value to this team.

[Ravage!!!]

Not only is it good to have him on the roster as a KO specialist, but if the team ever NEEDED a 50 yard FG to tie/win the game, at least he has the leg to give it a try.

[BroncoWave]

Not only is it good to have him on the roster as a KO specialist, but if the team ever NEEDED a 50 yard FG to tie/win the game, at least he has the leg to give it a try.

That's another good point. Would also be good for end of half situations potentially.

[Hawgdriver]

It's not significant enough to matter in a game. It's so negligible, in fact, according to these numbers, that the impact of missing a field goal far outweighs your opponent starting on the 20 versus the 25.

http://www.nflstatsblog.com/2011/08/fun-fact-chances-of-scoring-based-on.html

We're talking a difference of 1.4-1.5 expected points to 1.5-1.6, if those numbers are accurate. Whereas missing a field goal always equates losing three points.

So Barth scored 15 points while his subsequent kick offs gave up, theoretically, 7. If McManus missed two kicks he gave up six while still allowing just over 7, and creating even an increased chance of points, over 2 per possession with a missed field goal.

Nice link, thanks Mo. You misunderstood my point. I don't want McManus kicking field goals instead of Barth. I thought it was understood McManus would serve in the role of kickoff specialist.

If McManus kickoffs result in a 5 yard starting field position differential vs. Barth, that translates to 0.3 points per kickoff according to the stats you linked. If there are 6 kickoffs in the game, there's 2 points. If the kickoff results in an 8 yard differential, maybe it's more like 3 points. I wouldn't want McManus to kick field goals instead of Barth, but I can see the argument for having McManus as a kickoff specialist if the 53d player contributes fewer than 2-3 points.

[Dapper Dan]

If you have a kicker kicking flat kicks to the 5-10 yrd line, the special teams unit has NO chance of stopping them before they get to the 30...as we saw in KC. Has zero to do with not having confidence in the ST coverage.

The coverage team was on or near the 30 when the kicks were fielded on the 6. So I guess our guys stop when the ball is caught and wait for him to come to them.

[Dapper Dan]

Why cut anyone? Just IR Ball for heaven's sake and get it over with. Dude has missed so much time already, do the Broncos think he'll really be in game shape when and if he can be healthy enough to play again this season? They rushed him back (apparently) for no reason and now they're holding out hope that he can come back - for what? CJ, Thompson, Stewart and Bibbs are healthy and available to play and we might be getting Hillman back, too. Of all the injured players that we need back, Ball is the absolute least important right now.

**Disclaimer: This is not an indictment of Montee Ball and isn't meant to be negative toward him in any way. I just feel that he's already missed most of the season and his backups are doing well so it's not necessary for him to take an active roster spot when we're already hurting elsewhere.**

You can't have too many RBs.

[Dapper Dan]

Not only is it good to have him on the roster as a KO specialist, but if the team ever NEEDED a 50 yard FG to tie/win the game, at least he has the leg to give it a try.

I'm sure we would throw it instead.

[BroncoWave]

I'm sure we would throw it instead.

Deep fade to Tamme most likely.

[Dapper Dan]

Deep fade to Tamme most likely.

Better chance than Anus making the FG. I just hope he keeps the KOs in bounds.

[BroncoWave]

Better chance than Anus making the FG. I just hope he keeps the KOs in bounds.

I don't think he had a kickoff out of bounds all season. I wouldn't worry about that one.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Nice link, thanks Mo. You misunderstood my point. I don't want McManus kicking field goals instead of Barth. I thought it was understood McManus would serve in the role of kickoff specialist.

If McManus kickoffs result in a 5 yard starting field position differential vs. Barth, that translates to 0.3 points per kickoff according to the stats you linked. If there are 6 kickoffs in the game, there's 2 points. If the kickoff results in an 8 yard differential, maybe it's more like 3 points. I wouldn't want McManus to kick field goals instead of Barth, but I can see the argument for having McManus as a kickoff specialist if the 53d player contributes fewer than 2-3 points.


It's not significant enough to matter in a game. It's so negligible, in fact, according to these numbers, that the impact of missing a field goal far outweighs your opponent starting on the 20 versus the 25.

http://www.nflstatsblog.com/2011/08/fun-fact-chances-of-scoring-based-on.html

We're talking a difference of 1.4-1.5 expected points to 1.5-1.6, if those numbers are accurate. Whereas missing a field goal always equates losing three points.

So Barth scored 15 points while his subsequent kick offs gave up, theoretically, 7. If McManus missed two kicks he gave up six while still allowing just over 7, and creating even an increased chance of points, over 2 per possession with a missed field goal.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/ballinizlife/nerds.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ballinizlife/media/nerds.jpg.html)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Nice link, thanks Mo. You misunderstood my point. I don't want McManus kicking field goals instead of Barth. I thought it was understood McManus would serve in the role of kickoff specialist.

If McManus kickoffs result in a 5 yard starting field position differential vs. Barth, that translates to 0.3 points per kickoff according to the stats you linked. If there are 6 kickoffs in the game, there's 2 points. If the kickoff results in an 8 yard differential, maybe it's more like 3 points. I wouldn't want McManus to kick field goals instead of Barth, but I can see the argument for having McManus as a kickoff specialist if the 53d player contributes fewer than 2-3 points.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/wonkalumps/Revenge%20of%20the%20Nerds/137487b9de32bf31.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/wonkalumps/media/Revenge%20of%20the%20Nerds/137487b9de32bf31.gif.html)

[Dapper Dan]

I don't think he had a kickoff out of bounds all season. I wouldn't worry about that one.

Probably because he's aiming for a FG. No wonder he even hits the uprights on KOs.

[Hawgdriver]

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/ballinizlife/nerds.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ballinizlife/media/nerds.jpg.html)

Just droppin knowledge, boss.

[Hawgdriver]

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/wonkalumps/Revenge%20of%20the%20Nerds/137487b9de32bf31.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/wonkalumps/media/Revenge%20of%20the%20Nerds/137487b9de32bf31.gif.html)

You probably shouldn't have eaten those paint chips when you were younger. . .

[Valar Morghulis]

You can't have too many RBs.

But what if you had so many the only other players you had were a kicker and a punt returner - would you have too many then?

[Slick]

If you have a kicker kicking flat kicks to the 5-10 yrd line, the special teams unit has NO chance of stopping them before they get to the 30...as we saw in KC. Has zero to do with not having confidence in the ST coverage.

You think our special teams coverage is good then? You know it isn't and it hasn't been for many years. I think it scares the shit out of Elway and he knows it's a severe weakness, otherwise he cuts McManus and never looks back.

[Dapper Dan]

But what if you had so many the only other players you had were a kicker and a punt returner - would you have too many then?

U wan fite m8?!

[Valar Morghulis]

U wan fite m8?!

no thanks mate, i seen the way you took down Gem - i got no beef with you and dont want no trouble

[Dapper Dan]

no thanks mate, i seen the way you took down Gem - i got no beef with you and dont want no trouble

Cuddle fight! Let's hug it out. No Jello.

[VonDoom]

McManus back on roster. We waived Burse per Klis on Twitter. Now let's start a thread about who will return punts!

[Zweems56]

McManus back on roster. We waived Burse per Klis on Twitter. Now let's start a thread about who will return punts!

Battle of the Kickoff specialists!

[BroncoWave]

Getting rid of Burse is actually a pretty good move. I didn't even think of him when considering who to cut, but really all he does is return punts and he's not that great at it. I would say McManus definitely helps us more than Burse does. Great job Elway!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 10m

Once Burse lost his kick return job, it was only a matter of time. Not sure I want Sanders or Welker handling punt returns ... fair catch.

[VonDoom]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 10m

Once Burse lost his kick return job, it was only a matter of time. Not sure I want Sanders or Welker handling punt returns ... fair catch.

Maybe they'll give Latimer a shot once he's back. I don't want Sanders doing it, that's for sure.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Needing greater length on their kickoffs, the Broncos promoted kicker Brandon McManus from their practice squad to 53-man roster Saturday. McManus will kick off in the Broncos’ game Sunday against the Buffalo Bills while Connor Barth will handle the field goal duties.

McManus’ promotion was expected. The surprise was that the Broncos made roster room for McManus by waiving rookie Isaiah Burse, who had handled all 53 of the team’s punt returns this season.

Burse, an undrafted returner/receiver out of Fresno State, returned 29 punts for a 7.2 yard average and had 24 fair catches.

The Broncos have listed receiver Emmanuel Sanders as the No. 2 punt returner on their depth chart. Wes Welker also has punt-return experience.

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/12/06/broncos-promote-kicker-brandon-mcmanus-53-man-roster-waive-punt-returner-isaiah-burse/31317/

[Dapper Dan]

I kinda liked Burse.

[Valar Morghulis]

this move surprised me - i was actually pretty pleased with Burse, but as always - in elway we trust!

[MOtorboat]

OK.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I thought Burse did a good job. The only mental error I saw was the one play in which he fumbled.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

And this is how carrying 3 kickers can hurt you. Hopefully we can bring Burse back to the PS. He looked close to breaking a PR TD a couple of times and he's fast. I was hoping he could develop into another receiving weapon.

[Timmy!]

So......who's gonna return punts? Sanders is pretty good at it, but really don't want him taking extra shots. Welker? Probably not wise. Caldwell? :harf:

[Valar Morghulis]

So......who's gonna return punts? Sanders is pretty good at it, but really don't want him taking extra shots. Welker? Probably not wise. Caldwell? :harf:

bolden?

[Dapper Dan]

Did McManus return kicks in college?

[spikerman]

No one, just let it hit and roll dead then let the offense drive the field.

[Valar Morghulis]

No one, just let it hit and roll dead then let the offense drive the field.

I love this idea!

[Valar Morghulis]

Did McManus return kicks in college?

no he was too busy quarterbacking

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


McManus spent the 2013 preseason with Indianapolis after being signed by the club as a college free agent from Temple University on April 30. He converted his only field goal attempt (50 yds.) with the Colts—a 50-yarder against the Giants.

Temple’s career leader in points scored (338), field goals made (60) and attempted (83) and punting average (45.4), McManus was the recipient of the 2012 College Football Performance Awards Specialist Trophy as the nation’s best overall kicker.

full article - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Broncos-sign-McManus-to-roster-waive-Burse/62a77a82-0fb2-4d5f-a4ca-b6691ca5376a

[Timmy!]

Somebody get Holiday on the phone....

:pop2:

[Nomad]

Has the BRONCOS had a KRTD since Holiday? Can't remember.

[Valar Morghulis]

Has the BRONCOS had a KRTD since Holiday? Can't remember.

I dont think so, but our turnover differential is certainly better!

[MOtorboat]

No one, just let it hit and roll dead then let the offense drive the field.

Which completely negates the whole field position reasoning for having a third kicker. So you gain 5-10 yards on kick offs and lose 10-20 on punts?

[GEM]

How do you waive Burse and keep Caldwell and Carter? Burse has more upside than either of them. Weird.

[Valar Morghulis]

Which completely negates the whole field position reasoning for having a third kicker. So you gain 5-10 yards on kick offs and lose 10-20 on punts?

I would take pey pey at the 20 every time over some sub standard returner bringing it out to the 10 - or turning the ball over for the sake of once in a blue moon, a decent run back. If we had a genuine return man, i would agree.

If we look at our stats this year - i would be surprised if the majority of our field position did not start inside the 20 from a KO

[Valar Morghulis]

I would take pey pey at the 20 every time over some sub standard returner bringing it out to the 10 - or turning the ball over for the sake of once in a blue moon, a decent run back. If we had a genuine return man, i would agree.

If we look at our stats this year - i would be surprised if the majority of our field position did not start inside the 20 from a KO

Please ignore everything i just said - i was talking about KO - not PR.

So to recap - yes MO, you are right!

[Dapper Dan]

Damn, Dave. Get your shit together.

[Valar Morghulis]

Damn, Dave. Get your shit together.

I know, mate, i was going to delete it - but then i just decided to just acknowledge my error - you know, to show i was human

[Dapper Dan]

I know, mate, i was going to delete it - but then i just decided to just acknowledge my error - you know, to show i was human

That's something a robot would do to prove their humanity.

[BroncoWave]

How do you waive Burse and keep Caldwell and Carter? Burse has more upside than either of them. Weird.

I would say the reasoning is that losing Caldwell hurts your WR depth (where we are banged up now) and losing Carter hurts your CB depth (where we are alsp banged up) whereas Burse doesn't play at all on offense or defense. I'm sure we can find someone else on the roster who can handle returning punts well enough. It's not like Burse was just totally great at it.

[spikerman]

Which completely negates the whole field position reasoning for having a third kicker. So you gain 5-10 yards on kick offs and lose 10-20 on punts?
Of course, you realize that I wasn't serious.

[BroncoWave]

I actually kind of like the idea of Sanders returning punts. He could be really electric in that role, he definitely has the speed and agility to do it. Yeah there is the injury risk, but there is always injury risk when you are on the football field. Can't let fear of injury stop you from putting your playmakers out there to make plays.

[Dapper Dan]

You just mentioned we were banged up at WR and you think one of our better WRs should return punts?

[BroncoWave]

You just mentioned we were banged up at WR and you think one of our better WRs should return punts?

Sure, why not? Cutting a WR guarantees that you lose depth there. Putting one at PR only introduces a chance of it happening. Now I wouldn't out Welker out there because he is a concussion waiting to happen, but I haven't seen any evidence of Sanders being injury prone. Now that we don't have Burse, it pretty much guarantees that you use a WR or DB back there, so one of those positions is going to have a new injury risk attached to it regardless of what you do, so might as well put a playmaker back there.

[Dapper Dan]

It takes one concussion to be injury proned. I'd be worried about putting him back there with so many guys running straight toward him.

I like the idea of having a guy used to fielding punts once he steps on the field. I think that's why Welker fumbled.

[BroncoWave]

Sanders has returned 16 punts and 43 kicks in his career, so he's not totally inexperienced at it.

[Dapper Dan]

Neither is Welker.

Let's just put CJ back there. He's good at running the ball without fumbling.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- From the moment the Denver Broncos worked out new kickers to replace Brandon McManus, they knew bringing him back was likely part of the equation. And that's exactly what the Broncos did Saturday.

AND


A week ago, frustrated with McManus' four misses on field-goal attempts, including a 33-yarder against the Miami Dolphins, the Broncos brought in Barth and Jay Feely for workouts, eventually signing Barth.

Neither Barth nor Feely, who has since signed with the Chicago Bears, could drive the ball on kickoffs like McManus does, however, so bringing McManus back has been on the table since for the Broncos. Earlier this week, Broncos coach John Fox was asked if he would be willing to carry three kickers on the team's roster.

full article - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11988725/brandon-mcmanus-back-denver-broncos-handle-kickoffs

[Slick]

It isn't going to be Lattimer, he's out with a concussion. I imagine Bolden will be the punt returner.

[I Eat Staples]

Why is Caldwell still on the team? I would say he provides no value whatsoever, but I actually think he provides negative value. I don't care that Burse is gone but I'd still rather Burse over the incredibly useless, roster-clogging Caldwell.

[tomjonesrocks]

I kinda liked Burse.

He seemed pretty fearless. Not a lot of fair catch calls where he had room to run. Seemed sure handed until he wasn't. Kind of a quick hook for Burse.

[BroncoWave]

Why is Caldwell still on the team? I would say he provides no value whatsoever, but I actually think he provides negative value. I don't care that Burse is gone but I'd still rather Burse over the incredibly useless, roster-clogging Caldwell.

Not that I think he is any good at it, but the argument for keeping Caldwell is that he is at least a veteran WR who can fill in there and provide depth if needed. Burse, on the other hand, had literally no other role than punt returner, so cutting him doesn't impact your depth on offense or defense like getting rid of Caldwell or Carter would. As horrible as those two guys are, they play two positions where having depth is pretty important.

[Dapper Dan]

Could we have demoted Burse to the PS or do we have to do what we are doing and then wait for him to clear waivers? Maybe he'll be on the PS?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Could we have demoted Burse to the PS or do we have to do what we are doing and then wait for him to clear waivers? Maybe he'll be on the PS?

I think he has to clear waivers before bringing him back.

[Dapper Dan]

I think he has to clear waivers before bringing him back.

Right. But if we wanted to take him from the active roster to the practice squad, is this what we had to do? I know we cut him, but I'm wondering if the plan is to put him on the PS.

[BroncoWave]

Right. But if we wanted to take him from the active roster to the practice squad, is this what we had to do? I know we cut him, but I'm wondering if the plan is to put him on the PS.

For all practical purposes, I don't think it really matters either way if another team wanted him. Either we demote him to the PS and they sign him off of it, or he gets picked up on waivers. There's no way to fully protect him if he's not on the 53, so I don't think the manner in which we try to get him to the PS really matters.

[Dapper Dan]

For all practical purposes, I don't think it really matters either way if another team wanted him. Either we demote him to the PS and they sign him off of it, or he gets picked up on waivers. There's no way to fully protect him if he's not on the 53, so I don't think the manner in which we try to get him to the PS really matters.

That was basically my question.

Can we simply demote a player to the PS?
Do we have to cut the player and let him clear waivers just to put him on the PS?

I don't care how we do it, I'm just asking in what ways can a player on the active roster be put on the practice squad?

[BroncoWave]

That was basically my question.

Can we simply demote a player to the PS?
Do we have to cut the player and let him clear waivers just to put him on the PS?

I don't care how we do it, I'm just asking in what ways can a player on the active roster be put on the practice squad?

I'm not really sure. I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it though since they both lead to the same end result. I THINK you do have to cut the player first though. Or else they would have just demoted McManus to the PS instead of cutting him since they planned on bringing him back all along.

[Dapper Dan]

I'm not really sure. I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it though since they both lead to the same end result. I THINK you do have to cut the player first though. Or else they would have just demoted McManus to the PS instead of cutting him since they planned on bringing him back all along.

Obviously there isn't much else to think about right at this moment.

[BroncoWave]

I prefer not to think at all if I can absolutely avoid it.

[NightTrainLayne]

You have to cut a player and allow them to clear waivers before placing them on the practice squad.

A team claiming a player from waivers is actually claiming their contract. This is a small protection for the player. When a team re-signs them to add to the practice squad, they renegotiate a new contract.

[Cugel]

He seemed pretty fearless. Not a lot of fair catch calls where he had room to run. Seemed sure handed until he wasn't. Kind of a quick hook for Burse.

Hell with that! After that imbecilic pirouette he pulled in fumbling at the 12 yard line where he thought he was Devin Hester I've wanted that worthless chode off the team. Just take a knee and give Peyton the damn ball!

Every time he was running back a kick I was screaming at the TV "don't fumble it!" He doesn't deserve a roster spot. On punts just let someone fair catch each time and on kickoffs stay in the end-zone. 1/2 the time running the ball out results in a bad play, a fumble, getting tackled inside the 20 or a penalty. Screw it! You've got Peyton and the most high powered offense in history, just give them the ball.

[Simple Jaded]

Broncos ST's can't block anyway, when they do get a return going it's usually called back because of a penalty.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

For all practical purposes, I don't think it really matters either way if another team wanted him. Either we demote him to the PS and they sign him off of it, or he gets picked up on waivers. There's no way to fully protect him if he's not on the 53, so I don't think the manner in which we try to get him to the PS really matters.

That was basically my question.

Can we simply demote a player to the PS?
Do we have to cut the player and let him clear waivers just to put him on the PS?

I don't care how we do it, I'm just asking in what ways can a player on the active roster be put on the practice squad?

You must release a player to waivers. If he clears waivers, you can then put him on your PS. The PS only protects him insofar as another team must sign him to their active 53 not their PS. So no, you can't just "demote" him to the PS.

[Hawgdriver]

I didn't like this initially, but then I looked at Burse's results. He has shown a spark of elusiveness, nearly busting off a punt return or two, but his long is a 22 and his average is a 7.7. Replacement level stuff. And he's fumbled 3 times in 30 touches. I don't want Sanders to get injured, but I don't expect to miss Burse.

[Valar Morghulis]

I didn't like this initially, but then I looked at Burse's results. He has shown a spark of elusiveness, nearly busting off a punt return or two, but his long is a 22 and his average is a 7.7. Replacement level stuff. And he's fumbled 3 times in 30 touches. I don't want Sanders to get injured, but I don't expect to miss Burse.

I never realised he had fumbled three times, that is Holliday level, but without the explosive touchdowns every now and again.

[Cugel]

There's simply NO excuse for having a single special teams fumble. You've got Peyton Manning and the most prolific offense in NFL history, and they have no trouble moving the ball. What the hell are they doing, struggling and taking the chance of a fumble to gain 5 or 10 yards?

Who cares if the team gets the ball on the 20 instead of the 30 (and that's the likely upside of a successful runback)?

[tomjonesrocks]

I never realised he had fumbled three times, that is Holliday level, but without the explosive touchdowns every now and again.

I didn't either. All lost?

Oh well. I'm over it.

[Dapper Dan]

There's simply NO excuse for having a single special teams fumble. You've got Peyton Manning and the most prolific offense in NFL history, and they have no trouble moving the ball. What the hell are they doing, struggling and taking the chance of a fumble to gain 5 or 10 yards?

Who cares if the team gets the ball on the 20 instead of the 30 (and that's the likely upside of a successful runback)?

I guess the same could be said for the RB. Just go down. You might fumble. Let Peyton throw the ball.

[Nomad]

I dont trust Manning to do it with his arm alone.

[Slick]

There's simply NO excuse for having a single special teams fumble. You've got Peyton Manning and the most prolific offense in NFL history, and they have no trouble moving the ball. What the hell are they doing, struggling and taking the chance of a fumble to gain 5 or 10 yards?

Who cares if the team gets the ball on the 20 instead of the 30 (and that's the likely upside of a successful runback)?

Fumbling is going to happen. It's what happens after that can change the outcome of a game. I think your expectations are unrealistic.

[I Eat Staples]

Not that I think he is any good at it, but the argument for keeping Caldwell is that he is at least a veteran WR who can fill in there and provide depth if needed. Burse, on the other hand, had literally no other role than punt returner, so cutting him doesn't impact your depth on offense or defense like getting rid of Caldwell or Carter would. As horrible as those two guys are, they play two positions where having depth is pretty important.

I think Burse would be a better receiver than Caldwell given the chance. At the very least, Caldwell should never have been playing over Latimer.

[VonDoom]

BTW, Burse cleared waivers and is back on our PS

[ShaneFalco]

so many players available that would be better than resigning this douche.

[Nomad]

so many players available that would be better than resigning this douche.

What did he ever do or say to be labeled a douche? He's a first year/rookie kicker.

[Dapper Dan]

What did he ever do or say to be labeled a douche? He's a first year/rookie kicker.

His middle name is Tyler.

[GEM]

so many players available that would be better than resigning this douche.

Good Lord, did the guy shit in your mom's wheaties? Douche? Really?

[Dapper Dan]

Good Lord, did the guy shit in your mom's wheaties? Douche? Really?

Please watch your language. This isn't the lounge.

[GEM]

Please watch your language. This isn't the lounge.

Find someone else to harass. Shit isn't a circumvented word, notice no asterisks.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

BTW, Burse cleared waivers and is back on our PS

Broncos sign Isaiah Burse to practice squad, waive Mark Asper

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/12/08/broncos-sign-isaiah-burse-practice-squad-waive-mark-asper/31414/

[BroncoWave]

Think of the kids, GEM!

[Hawgdriver]

Burse and McManus both show flashes. With a little polish they might become solid players. I like what the Broncos have done.

[TXBRONC]

How do you waive Burse and keep Caldwell and Carter? Burse has more upside than either of them. Weird.

I don't think Burse did anything but return punts. Caldwell and Carter are both punt and kick coverage.

[BroncoWave]

I don't think Burse did anything but return punts. Caldwell and Carter are both punt and kick coverage.

And they also both provide depth at WR/CB which are both positions we are a bit banged up at now. They've both gotten decent playing time the past few weeks, so cutting either of them would create too many holes. Burse was definitely the right guy to let go of IMO.

[GEM]

I'm good with it now that they brought him back to PS. In the long run, they played it very well.

[ShaneFalco]

Good Lord, did the guy shit in your mom's wheaties? Douche? Really?
do people still eat wheaties?

I always found them to be gross.

More of a rice krispys guy.

[tomjonesrocks]

do people still eat wheaties? I always found them to be gross. More of a rice krispys guy.

Always liked them but not the healthiest option.

[Simple Jaded]

so many players available that would be better than resigning this douche.

Which douche, McManus or Burse?

[Buff]

Anyone know what McManus' touchback stats are since returning? Seems like he is just stealing money from the organization, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

[VonDoom]

Anyone know what McManus' touchback stats are since returning? Seems like he is just stealing money from the organization, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

Alright, I got you covered - I looked back at the last four games since McManus has been back. Here's what I found:

Bills - 5 KO, 4 touchbacks
Chargers - 7 KO, 5 touchbacks
Bengals - 5 KO, 2 touchbacks
Raiders - 10 KO, 5 touchbacks
Total - 27 KO, 16 touchbacks (59% rate)

So that total is well below his average before he was let go (something like 73%, I believe). Some notes, though - the Raiders game was actually his worst in terms of how deep he kicked it; three of those kickoffs were fielded in play. The other 24 kick offs went into the end zone and some were obviously returned to good effect (see: Bengals game against our coverage team). Also, five of the first six kick offs in the Raider game were touchbacks; after that, maybe he got tired of kicking so much, as that was where three were fielded in play. The other two both went 7 yards deep and were returned (I'm guessing they might have been touchbacks earlier in the game but that Oakland was trying to make something happen so they brought them out anyway).

[dogfish]

wait, wait! i thought this kid was "almost a guaranteed touchback". . . 59% isn't exactly automatic. . .

[BroncoWave]

wait, wait! i thought this kid was "almost a guaranteed touchback". . . 59% isn't exactly automatic. . .

My memory might be fooling me, but it seems like quite a few of his kicks that weren't touchbacks were kicked 7 or 8 yards deep in the endzone, but teams know our kick coverage is so bad they just return them anyway. In that case, I wouldn't put that lack of touchbacks entirely on McManus.

[VonDoom]

My memory might be fooling me, but it seems like quite a few of his kicks that weren't touchbacks were kicked 7 or 8 yards deep in the endzone, but teams know our kick coverage is so bad they just return them anyway. In that case, I wouldn't put that lack of touchbacks entirely on McManus.

I said as much in my post. He kicks into the end zone most of the time. Those returns aren't on him. Also, 59% is probably misleading. It was only four games and the first two here he was 9/12, which is right in line with his other numbers. The last two weren't statistically as good.

[Buff]

Alright, I got you covered - I looked back at the last four games since McManus has been back. Here's what I found:

Bills - 5 KO, 4 touchbacks
Chargers - 7 KO, 5 touchbacks
Bengals - 5 KO, 2 touchbacks
Raiders - 10 KO, 5 touchbacks
Total - 27 KO, 16 touchbacks (59% rate)

So that total is well below his average before he was let go (something like 73%, I believe). Some notes, though - the Raiders game was actually his worst in terms of how deep he kicked it; three of those kickoffs were fielded in play. The other 24 kick offs went into the end zone and some were obviously returned to good effect (see: Bengals game against our coverage team). Also, five of the first six kick offs in the Raider game were touchbacks; after that, maybe he got tired of kicking so much, as that was where three were fielded in play. The other two both went 7 yards deep and were returned (I'm guessing they might have been touchbacks earlier in the game but that Oakland was trying to make something happen so they brought them out anyway).

Cool - thanks for pulling together the numbers...

This guy has just been a big disappointment IMO - no other way to spin it. I've got no place on my football team for mediocre kickers.

[ShaneFalco]

what other NFL team actually carries 2 kickers?

[Simple Jaded]

what other NFL team actually carries 2 kickers?

https://www.google.com

[ShaneFalco]

apparently only the Browns have done it, no other team thinks of wasting a roster spot on a 2nd kicker.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

McManus is 6th on this

http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=O

[Simple Jaded]

apparently only the Browns have done it, no other team thinks of wasting a roster spot on a 2nd kicker.

But who are they missing out on though atm? They're so far down their LB and S depth chart that it's not a given that having a street FA in the fold is that much of an advantage (Bush was signed a week before his game-clinching Int), they've got 8-9 OL, they got 2 WR's, TE's and DT's that never see the ball and rarely see the field, they're fine at CB, have RB's stashed on PS.

Other than the adverse effects on a ST's that sucked in the first place the Broncos haven't had much reason to regret their rostering 2 PK's.

[ShaneFalco]

i guess. but i would give Micheal Sam a shot over a 2nd kicker. forget about the gay thing, and he actually did well in preseason with the Rams.

[ShaneFalco]

also Winston Justice is still a FA. Always thought he was a pretty good tackle.

[underrated29]

i guess. but i would give Micheal Sam a shot over a 2nd kicker. forget about the gay thing, and he actually did well in preseason with the Rams.



I'd give sam a shot over Stewart he RB and a few of the backup on and Dl.

[Simple Jaded]

No thanks on Sam, not black enough.

[TXBRONC]

also Winston Justice is still a FA. Always thought he was a pretty good tackle.

No he's not that's why he got cut.