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Ziggy
12-01-2014, 02:01 AM
.....as the punter and kickoff man. He was a decent punter in college. On 104 punts he averaged 45.3 yards per kick. Colquitt is overpaid. It'll save close to 2 mill on the cap next year that we can help use to re-sign DT, JT, Chris Harris, Pot Roast.....etc, etc. I don't trust our special teams coverage units in any way, shape or form. McManus has the rocket leg for kickoffs and can fill in adequately as our punter while he continues to work on field goal accuracy in practice.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-01-2014, 02:04 AM
Dude, Colquitt was worth every penny tonight. Maybe they should try him at kick-off duty?

wayninja
12-01-2014, 02:07 AM
Dude, Colquitt was worth every penny tonight. Maybe they should try him at kick-off duty?

I'm not sure about that... he had 1 good punt. The rest sorta sucked. I guess you could try to give him credit for the ST disaster/turnover, but that was just dumb luck.

FanInAZ
12-01-2014, 02:30 AM
I'm not sure about that... he had 1 good punt. The rest sorta sucked. I guess you could try to give him credit for the ST disaster/turnover, but that was just dumb luck.

Everyone shanks a punt now & then.

Ziggy
12-01-2014, 02:49 AM
Dude, Colquitt was worth every penny tonight. Maybe they should try him at kick-off duty?

We must have been watching a different game. Colquitt sucked as usual.

Timmy!
12-01-2014, 02:57 AM
Stop.....just stop. *cough holder for the 3rd time cough*

Magnificent Seven
12-01-2014, 03:00 AM
.....as the punter and kickoff man. He was a decent punter in college. On 104 punts he averaged 45.3 yards per kick. Colquitt is overpaid. It'll save close to 2 mill on the cap next year that we can help use to re-sign DT, JT, Chris Harris, Pot Roast.....etc, etc. I don't trust our special teams coverage units in any way, shape or form. McManus has the rocket leg for kickoffs and can fill in adequately as our punter while he continues to work on field goal accuracy in practice.

No, thanks!

Timmy!
12-01-2014, 03:01 AM
*thread hits right upright*

Ziggy
12-01-2014, 03:08 AM
Stop.....just stop. *cough holder for the 3rd time cough*

The best time to replace your holder is when you get a new kicker. That 2 million might make the difference between re-signing and not re-signing a guy like Chris Harris or Pot Roast. There are wiser ways to spend cap money than on an overpaid punter/holder.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:28 AM
Does Elway not have foresight? They gave him the big contract, knowing he would have to resign those players. I wonder why. And I'll also help your argument a bit since I don't think you researched much. Colquit is set to make about 3 million a season the next couple years.

How did Colquitt suck as usual? I mostly paid attention to his last couple punts. One was a 48 harder that put KC in the 20 and the other was a short kick under 30 years that put KC inside the 20. He probably should have booted it into the endzone to help his stats.

McManus sucks. That's why he was cut. He's not coming back. I'm sorry.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:33 AM
The only reason we have a kicker is because Colquitt can't hold his own kicks. In high school he averaged 52 yards per punt. He made a 52 yard fg. 95% of his kickoffs went into the endzone. What a leg..

Dzone
12-01-2014, 05:53 AM
I thought the reason for Barths short kickoffs might be the cold until KCs kicker sailed one into the endzone. Our kickoff coverage is terrible and it seems just a matter of time until someone takes it to the house. again

VonDoom
12-01-2014, 08:56 AM
How did Colquitt suck as usual? I mostly paid attention to his last couple punts. One was a 48 harder that put KC in the 20 and the other was a short kick under 30 years that put KC inside the 20. He probably should have booted it into the endzone to help his stats.


Well, he had that one punt that was so bad that KC wasn't even looking for the ball and we got a lucky bounce. Let's face facts - he's not that good, and he's overpaid.

Now, if he could also kickoff, I'd say keep him. Otherwise, the OP mentioned something that a few of us have said on this board recently - McManus can theoretically punt, and he's obviously good at booming kicks. I'm giving Barth a pass because of the wind, but signs are pointing to us having to cover kickoffs better, and it seems like we can't do that.

Ravage!!!
12-01-2014, 10:35 AM
THE ONLY reason to bring back McManus is to Kick Off........ Barth SUCKS at Kicking off. Wow he is bad. KC started off on their 30 or 35 EVERY time we kicked off. We can't have that.

Ravage!!!
12-01-2014, 10:37 AM
Well, he had that one punt that was so bad that KC wasn't even looking for the ball and we got a lucky bounce. Let's face facts - he's not that good, and he's overpaid.

Now, if he could also kickoff, I'd say keep him. Otherwise, the OP mentioned something that a few of us have said on this board recently - McManus can theoretically punt, and he's obviously good at booming kicks. I'm giving Barth a pass because of the wind, but signs are pointing to us having to cover kickoffs better, and it seems like we can't do that.

Bringing in McManus to punt, is just stupid. You think just ANYONE can punt in the NFL?

HORSEPOWER 56
12-01-2014, 10:53 AM
THE ONLY reason to bring back McManus is to Kick Off........ Barth SUCKS at Kicking off. Wow he is bad. KC started off on their 30 or 35 EVERY time we kicked off. We can't have that.

I take the kicking from last night's game with a grain of salt. KC's kicker wasn't kicking touchbacks, either. The balls were frozen and the wind was swirling. Let him get back to mile high before we judge how well he kicks off. On top of that, KC has a great return unit. They were fielding the ball inside the 5 most of the time. Their return unit is what got them out to the 30-35.

As for people dumping on Colquit, I thought it was one of his better games, except for the short punt that was touched and recovered by us anyway. Almost all of his punts were inside the 20, and he aimed for the sidelines nullifying KC's potent return specialists. He also didn't outkick the coverage and if it wasn't for Caldwell being dumb, we would've pinned them inside the 5 on Boldin's big STs tackle.

broncofaninfla
12-01-2014, 11:20 AM
I'd be cool with bringing McManus back just for kickoffs just not sure I'd cut the punter to do so.

GEM
12-01-2014, 11:35 AM
I take the kicking from last night's game with a grain of salt. KC's kicker wasn't kicking touchbacks, either. The balls were frozen and the wind was swirling. Let him get back to mile high before we judge how well he kicks off. On top of that, KC has a great return unit. They were fielding the ball inside the 5 most of the time. Their return unit is what got them out to the 30-35.

As for people dumping on Colquit, I thought it was one of his better games, except for the short punt that was touched and recovered by us anyway. Almost all of his punts were inside the 20, and he aimed for the sidelines nullifying KC's potent return specialists. He also didn't outkick the coverage and if it wasn't for Caldwell being dumb, we would've pinned them inside the 5 on Boldin's big STs tackle.

KC's kicker is 32nd in the league in kickoffs. Barth is going to battle him for that spot, but at least he made all his kicks.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 12:00 PM
Here are Colquitt's stats - so far for 2014, he has had 54 punts, his average is 43.6, and his longest one 65 yards. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12773/britton-colquitt

In regards to Colquitt, it was either a sportswriter, or sportscaster, who said that the Broncos prefer, based on where Colquitt is punting from, to get height on his punts, to enable the coverage to get downfield.

CoachChaz
12-01-2014, 12:37 PM
Here are Colquitt's stats - so far for 2014, he has had 54 punts, his average is 43.6, and his longest one 65 yards. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12773/britton-colquitt

In regards to Colquitt, it was either a sportswriter, or sportscaster, who said that the Broncos prefer, based on where Colquitt is punting from, to get height on his punts, to enable the coverage to get downfield.

Well...considering he is 19th in NET and middle of the pack in average return...it doesnt look like that philosophy is working to an exact science either. On the other hand...it's punting. In the long run...how much is it really going to help or hurt?

BroncoJoe
12-01-2014, 12:39 PM
Well...considering he is 19th in NET and middle of the pack in average return...it doesnt look like that philosophy is working to an exact science either. On the other hand...it's punting. In the long run...how much is it really going to help or hurt?

To answer that question, all you have to do is look at the yardage difference. Without looking, I'd guess it's less than 5-7 yards. NBD.

CoachChaz
12-01-2014, 12:49 PM
To answer that question, all you have to do is look at the yardage difference. Without looking, I'd guess it's less than 5-7 yards. NBD.

Looking at the stats, the team with the best net is 9 yards better than the team with the worst net. Both teams are in first place in their divisions. 6 of the top 10 aren't really in playoff contention...and 6 of the bottom 10 aren't really in playoff contention.

So, the answer is probably that punting doesnt really play as significant of a role in the game that some make it out to be. Based on that result, the next question is why the hell do we bother employing a punter at almost 4 mil per year???

BroncoJoe
12-01-2014, 12:52 PM
Looking at the stats, the team with the best net is 9 yards better than the team with the worst net. Both teams are in first place in their divisions. 6 of the top 10 aren't really in playoff contention...and 6 of the bottom 10 aren't really in playoff contention.

So, the answer is probably that punting doesnt really play as significant of a role in the game that some make it out to be. Based on that result, the next question is why the hell do we bother employing a punter at almost 4 mil per year???

Right - so my point from where our punter stands is probably less than 5 yards to be the #1 punter. That'll never happen, because it's rare we don't cross the 35-40 yard line on our drives.

BroncoWave
12-01-2014, 12:55 PM
Bringing in McManus to punt, is just stupid. You think just ANYONE can punt in the NFL?

Just anyone? No. Someone who did it pretty successfully in college for two seasons? Maybe.

I mean think about it. We probably kickoff twice as much as we punt. So let's say you slide McManus in at punter. Even if he's not any better than Colquitt, booming every kickoff out of the end zone more than makes up for it IMO.

It cracks me up that you guys are acting like there is no possible way McManus could ever punt a ball in the NFL and that anyone who thinks he can just doesn't know football.

CoachChaz
12-01-2014, 12:58 PM
Right - so my point from where our punter stands is probably less than 5 yards to be the #1 punter. That'll never happen, because it's rare we don't cross the 35-40 yard line on our drives.

Colquitt is 4.4 net yards from being #1. I think where his value comes in is he has 21 punts inside the 20, with only 1 touchback. Conversely...Marquette King is only 5.6 net yards from being #1 with 24 inside the 20 and only 2 touchbacks. For 3.4 mil less per year. Granted...King punts much more often...but that goes both ways when it comes to opportunities to do well or bad.

Cugel
12-01-2014, 01:01 PM
The best time to replace your holder is when you get a new kicker. That 2 million might make the difference between re-signing and not re-signing a guy like Chris Harris or Pot Roast. There are wiser ways to spend cap money than on an overpaid punter/holder.

WTF? :eek:

"I pity the fool that pays Brandon McManus $2 million!"

6159

Connor Barth signed an "undisclosed FA contract" - that's probably for the league veteran minimum. He had ZERO negotiating leverage. It's a "take it or leave it" situation where if he doesn't like the contract offer, well, Jay Feely wants to play in the NFL too and he kicked just as well as Barth. The only reason the Broncos signed Barth after all was that he was younger and they felt he had a bigger potential upside.

Reality: Once they get Hillman back they can put Montee Ball on IR for the year and free up a roster spot for a K. Then they can re-sign McManus for the veteran league minimum.

He's sitting on his couch! What else is he going to do? Hope that somebody needs a K in the last month of the season? Here's a chance to get back in the NFL and maybe if Barth starts missing FGs they give him another chance. If not, then he's a FA at the end of the season again, but at least he was on an NFL roster instead of sitting in his living room waiting for the phone to ring! The longer you're out of the NFL the less people think about you!

Nobody right now is offering McManus $2M for anything. In fact, that's why he was cut from the Bucs - he was going to earn $2 million and they didn't think he was worth it.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 01:08 PM
How often have we cut players and brought them right back?

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 01:10 PM
Colquitt is 4.4 net yards from being #1. I think where his value comes in is he has 21 punts inside the 20, with only 1 touchback. Conversely...Marquette King is only 5.6 net yards from being #1 with 24 inside the 20 and only 2 touchbacks. For 3.4 mil less per year. Granted...King punts much more often...but that goes both ways when it comes to opportunities to do well or bad.

Where do you get his contract info?

Cugel
12-01-2014, 01:11 PM
BTW: Colquitt is earning $3 million this year.


8/11/2013: Signed a four-year, $13.023 million contract. The deal included an initial roster bonus of $3 million. 2014: $2 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus), 2015: $3 million, 2016: $3.25 million, 2017: Free Agent

Chances of him earning $3+ million in 2015? Pretty much zero. Broncos are going to be shopping for punters in the off-season because they're not going to budget $3 million for one.

Cugel
12-01-2014, 01:12 PM
Where do you get his contract info?

Here you go! (http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/den/)

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 01:12 PM
KC's kicker is 32nd in the league in kickoffs. Barth is going to battle him for that spot, but at least he made all his kicks.

So KC is a shitty place for kickoffs. Gotcha.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 01:14 PM
BTW: Colquitt is earning $3 million this year.



Chances of him earning $3+ million in 2015? Pretty much zero. Broncos are going to be shopping for punters in the off-season because they're not going to budget $3 million for one.


Here you go! (http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/den/)

I know. I was wondering when he was making "almost $4 million". I thought maybe I was looking at inaccurate numbers.

Buff
12-01-2014, 01:20 PM
Bubba Caldwell is just stealing from the Bowlen family collecting a paycheck every week. May as well give his spot to someone who can help the team.

BroncoWave
12-01-2014, 02:10 PM
Bubba Caldwell is just stealing from the Bowlen family collecting a paycheck every week. May as well give his spot to someone who can help the team.

Tony Carter too.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 02:16 PM
Come playoff time you can't have too many RBs, WRs, or DBs.

GEM
12-01-2014, 02:32 PM
So KC is a shitty place for kickoffs. Gotcha.

Kickers don't just kick at home...

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 02:52 PM
Kickers don't just kick at home...

I didn't say they did. But roughly half of your kicks are at home. KC is flat and windy. It swirls in the stadium. We will see what Barth looks like next week.

GEM
12-01-2014, 02:57 PM
I didn't say they did. But roughly half of your kicks are at home. KC is flat and windy. It swirls in the stadium. We will see what Barth looks like next week.

Barth also hasn't kicked kickoffs since 2010, 2 years previous to his achilles tear. So I doubt it's going to be much better no matter where he kicks. He was landing around the 20 so, with altitude maybe the 10...still not the touchback you want since our ST's isn't stellar on stopping shifty runners.

GEM
12-01-2014, 02:59 PM
I'm not saying bring back McManus...points on the board overshadows the kickoff issue. Just saying against a team like the Pats, it could hurt us in the long run.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:07 PM
Our kickoffs were landing on the 20?

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:20 PM
I just went back and reviewed the first half.


Opening kickoff was fielded at the 6.

After our first TD there was 9 mins left in the first. Kickoff was fielded at the 6.

After our second TD there was 2 minutes left in the first. Kickoff was fielded at the 6.

After our first FG there was 7 minutes left in the second. Kickoff was fielded at the 10.

KC finally scored. We fielded their kickoff on the 22.

After our second FG there was 16 seconds left in the first half. So we squibbed it. It was fielded on the 16.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:22 PM
TL;DR

First half.

Barth kicked it to the 6, 6, 10, 16.

KCs only kickoff landed on the 22.

BroncoWave
12-01-2014, 03:29 PM
TL;DR

First half.

Barth kicked it to the 6, 6, 10, 16.

KCs only kickoff landed on the 22.

Kc scored twice and kicked off to start the second half, so that's 3 times they kicked off.

VonDoom
12-01-2014, 03:29 PM
TL;DR

First half.

Barth kicked it to the 6, 6, 10, 16.

KCs only kickoff landed on the 22.

According to the Game Book, that kick actually landed on the 27. But in fairness, that was because of the 15 yard penalty on KC on the extra point. Assuming all things equal, that would have landed on the 12.

VonDoom
12-01-2014, 03:33 PM
Kc scored twice and kicked off to start the second half, so that's 3 times they kicked off.

He mentioned first half kicks only; KC's three second half kicks landed at the 3, one yard deep and three yards deep.

Our three second half kickoffs landed at the 4, 2 and 13, respectively.

Thnikkaman
12-01-2014, 03:36 PM
Life is too good. What can we bitch about today?

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 03:41 PM
I would assume Barth did the same thing with Tampa Bay, which resulted in him not kicking off. This might be the best he can do. Unless the forecast for this coming Sunday changes, it is suppose to be nice. Guess we will see if he improves, with improved weather conditions. If not, it will be a problem.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:47 PM
According to the Game Book, that kick actually landed on the 27. But in fairness, that was because of the 15 yard penalty on KC on the extra point. Assuming all things equal, that would have landed on the 12.

Probably. I only rewinded the game and looked at where they landed. Maybe I'll look at the second half tonight. I had to get ready for work.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 03:47 PM
Life is too good. What can we bitch about today?

The weather. It's cold and rainy.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 03:48 PM
Stats for Barth yesterday - 8 kicks, average 57.0, longest 63, opponent returns 8 for 199 yards
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=O

GEM
12-01-2014, 03:48 PM
I just went back and reviewed the first half.


Opening kickoff was fielded at the 6.

After our first TD there was 9 mins left in the first. Kickoff was fielded at the 6.

After our second TD there was 2 minutes left in the first. Kickoff was fielded at the 6.

After our first FG there was 7 minutes left in the second. Kickoff was fielded at the 10.

KC finally scored. We fielded their kickoff on the 22.

After our second FG there was 16 seconds left in the first half. So we squibbed it. It was fielded on the 16.

Ok, sorry. Not on the 20....but not touchbacks, which is what you want, especially when your special teams has issues stopping runners. Now...tell me where KC's drives started once they kick returner was taken down on the 6, 10, 22 because the kicker couldn't sail it through the end zone.

Anything else you want to argue about, just for the sake of arguing?

Valar Morghulis
12-01-2014, 03:51 PM
I thought that his KO's looked poor, and even thought about McManus just for KO's - but i can not see how Elway would pick Barth if he was so lacking in a main area of his job.

Ergo, i believe, Barth = GOAT

GEM
12-01-2014, 04:00 PM
KC had 8 KO returns for 199 yds...avg of 24.875 yards per return.

LRtagger
12-01-2014, 04:08 PM
Connor Barth has 11 career touchbacks in 170 kickoffs....6.5% LOL

I don't think it is magically going to get better outside of KC.

VonDoom
12-01-2014, 04:21 PM
I've never spent so much time going over the minutia of kickoffs. I will say this, though - the only thing I'll criticize Elway for is signing Barth through 2016 without seeing him kick for this team. We should have at least just given him this year as a tryout to see how it went.

Also, I don't like the idea of using three roster spots on kickers, but maybe that's what we should have done here.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 04:22 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) - The Denver Broncos might be sacrificing some kick return yards in exchange for more accuracy between the uprights.

“We’re about to find out,” coach John Fox said Wednesday, 24 hours after the Broncos replaced first-year pro Brandon McManus with five-year pro Connor Barth.

Barth is an 84 percent field goal kicker over his five seasons in the NFL and the most accurate kicker in Tampa Bay Buccaneers history. McManus was waived after making just 69 percent of his field goal attempts, which ranked last in the league.

McManus, however, ranked second in the league behind only Indy’s Pat McAfee in both touchbacks on kickoffs (48) and touchback rate (75 percent).

Only 7.1 percent of Barth’s career kickoffs have resulted in touchbacks – 11 of 156 – although all of those came when the football was still teed up at the 30-yard line, not the 35, which has drastically reduced runbacks in recent seasons.

rest - http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/11/27/with-kicker-broncos-pick-accuracy-over-strength/

GEM
12-01-2014, 04:32 PM
I've never spent so much time going over the minutia of kickoffs. I will say this, though - the only thing I'll criticize Elway for is signing Barth through 2016 without seeing him kick for this team. We should have at least just given him this year as a tryout to see how it went.

Also, I don't like the idea of using three roster spots on kickers, but maybe that's what we should have done here.

My only point bringing it up is that it could come back to haunt us with an offense that can actually move the ball, unlike KC. Once DB said to give it til next week, I just pointed out the history.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 04:34 PM
Ok, sorry. Not on the 20....but not touchbacks, which is what you want, especially when your special teams has issues stopping runners. Now...tell me where KC's drives started once they kick returner was taken down on the 6, 10, 22 because the kicker couldn't sail it through the end zone.

Anything else you want to argue about, just for the sake of arguing?

Don't get pissed at me because you were wrong. Check your facts first.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 04:34 PM
Connor Barth has 11 career touchbacks in 170 kickoffs....6.5% LOL

I don't think it is magically going to get better outside of KC.

How many of those were before they moved the kickoff spot?

GEM
12-01-2014, 04:36 PM
Don't get pissed at me because you were wrong. Check your facts first.

Who is pissed? I was wrong on where it landed, wasn't wrong that 8 for 8 were not touchbacks.

When an NFL teams stops using a kicker for kickoffs, it's about the kicker, not where it's kicked from.

Not sure why you're getting so butt hurt over it, but oh well, that's on you.

Geez....touchy much?

Nomad
12-01-2014, 04:38 PM
This place would have a complete meltdown if Barth missed a FG and there was KRTD, all in the same game:lol:

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 04:39 PM
Who is pissed? I was wrong on where it landed, wasn't wrong that 8 for 8 were not touchbacks.

When an NFL teams stops using a kicker for kickoffs, it's about the kicker, not where it's kicked from.

Not sure why you're getting so butt hurt over it, but oh well, that's on you.

Geez....touchy much?

I'm not butthurt about anything. There's a big difference between arguing that the ball is landing on the 20 and that the ball isn't going into the endzone. If kickoffs are landing on the 20, yes replace the guy. If they are landing on the 6 in shitty weather, when he's doing kickoffs for the first time in 4 years, give it some time.

VonDoom
12-01-2014, 04:40 PM
My only point bringing it up is that it could come back to haunt us with an offense that can actually move the ball, unlike KC. Once DB said to give it til next week, I just pointed out the history.

I get that, and it may become an issue. I'm assuming Elway and Fox thought about this before giving McManus the boot, so to speak. But considering we're on our third kicker and third o-line configuration, I'd say we're doing pretty well so far this year :D

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 04:41 PM
Barth wasn't used on kickoffs by the Bucs in 2011 or '12 and in 2010 he had just one touchback on 78 kickoffs for Tampa Bay.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/42d6a941f2174cfb9e789b01558c856f/ap-source-broncos-waive-mcmanus-sign-barth

VonDoom
12-01-2014, 04:41 PM
While we're still on the subject, Fox was asked about kickers at his presser today:


Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 21m21 minutes ago

John Fox, on Connor Barth's night: "Good, in very tough conditions."

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 20m20 minutes ago

Fox, asked about a KO specialist, mentions that he did it in CAR (R.Lloyd w/ Kasay): "You consider everything, but you can consider nothing"

I don't know if Mase transcribed that last one wrong, but if not, I have no idea what Fox is trying to say there.

Valar Morghulis
12-01-2014, 04:42 PM
Bring in Kickalicious! If for no other reason than he has a cool name.

Not as cool as Greg the leg or Legatron - but cool nonetheless

GEM
12-01-2014, 04:46 PM
I'm not butthurt about anything. There's a big difference between arguing that the ball is landing on the 20 and that the ball isn't going into the endzone. If kickoffs are landing on the 20, yes replace the guy. If they are landing on the 6 in shitty weather, when he's doing kickoffs for the first time in 4 years, give it some time.

Who said replace the guy? I said something to watch out for when we go against teams that have offenses that can move the ******* ball. Reading is fundi****ingmental.

GEM
12-01-2014, 04:48 PM
And 2 of the years it wasn't his choice if he did kickoffs or not, the kicking staff stopped it because he was ineffective.

MOtorboat
12-01-2014, 05:06 PM
I sure as hell don't want McManus back.

Dzone
12-01-2014, 05:09 PM
If we dont bring in a kicking specialist, then just add another tackler to our kickoff team by having TJ Ward or Von miller Kickoff

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 05:14 PM
I sure as hell don't want McManus back.

I would bring him back in a minute if he only was used for kickoffs, and if there was a way to add him to the roster without cutting a good player. Actually, if Tony Carter was let go, it would not hurt my feelings.

GEM
12-01-2014, 05:15 PM
I would bring him back in a minute if he only was used for kickoffs, and if there was a way to add him to the roster without cutting a good player. Actually, if Tony Carter was let go, it would not hurt my feelings.

That's a pretty good trade off....gain 15 instead of losing 15 every time each player is on the field. :laugh:

Denver Native (Carol)
12-01-2014, 05:32 PM
Darren McKee @dmac1043 · 1h

Fox - on if he would have a kickoff specialist. I've done it before - I would consider everything or nothing. Can I use that DMac? Super!

BroncoJoe
12-01-2014, 06:05 PM
Connor Barth has 11 career touchbacks in 170 kickoffs....6.5% LOL

I don't think it is magically going to get better outside of KC.


all of those came when the football was still teed up at the 30-yard line

AND, IIRC every kickoff had to be held due to the wind. Surely that will affect how far it's going.

Let's all take a deep breath and see how he does this weekend. I guess it's a good thing if the kicker is what we're worried about with this team...

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 06:07 PM
Who said replace the guy? I said something to watch out for when we go against teams that have offenses that can move the ******* ball. Reading is fundi****ingmental.

See? Who's getting pissy? :lol:

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 06:09 PM
AND, IIRC every kickoff had to be held due to the wind. Surely that will affect how far it's going.

Let's all take a deep breath and see how he does this weekend. I guess it's a good thing if the kicker is what we're worried about with this team...

On the one's I looked it they were all help except for the last one, I think. That's only the first half.

Slick
12-01-2014, 06:27 PM
If Denver's special teams can't cover a kickoff that isn't a touchback then they deserve to lose.

Cugel
12-01-2014, 06:38 PM
Here are Colquitt's stats - so far for 2014, he has had 54 punts, his average is 43.6, and his longest one 65 yards. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12773/britton-colquitt

In regards to Colquitt, it was either a sportswriter, or sportscaster, who said that the Broncos prefer, based on where Colquitt is punting from, to get height on his punts, to enable the coverage to get downfield.

Let's get this discussion back on track! The reason why having a Matt Prater was important is that Denver's kick coverage is less than stellar, having given up TD returns and big gains fairly regularly over the last 2 years.

McManus at least had a big leg. As for Colquitt, same thing applies. He needs to have a big leg when they need it, and accuracy and height on his kicks when they don't and just want to pin the other team deep.

But, there's no way the Broncos are paying over $1 million to a punter next year when they have to re-sign Von Miller, D.T., J.T., etc., etc., etc. and they don't have enough room under the salary cap to do it all.

GEM
12-01-2014, 06:56 PM
See? Who's getting pissy? :lol:

I wonder why...how many times can I say the same thing and you want to argue.

GEM
12-01-2014, 07:01 PM
I think I have the flu coming on....db, you keep ******* with me and I'll come throw up in your gas tank!

Pudge
12-01-2014, 07:55 PM
I think I have the flu coming on....db, you keep ******* with me and I'll come throw up in your gas tank!

Back off my homie, yo

GEM
12-01-2014, 08:09 PM
Back off my homie, yo

Shut it, rump humper.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-01-2014, 08:20 PM
I sure as hell don't want McManus back.

I would bring him back in a minute if he only was used for kickoffs, and if there was a way to add him to the roster without cutting a good player. Actually, if Tony Carter was let go, it would not hurt my feelings.

The hell with cutting a guy who can actually play some. Just IR Ball for heaven's sake. I honestly don't know why the Broncos don't. If he comes back this season, which I doubt, it's not like we need him or he's even going to regain his starting job.

Let the guy heal up properly and start next season at 100%. It's not like the team can't survive without him. Irving was more of an impact than Ball and we IR'd him for an MCL sprain. If Ball comes back, we have to release Stewart, get Ball a ton of reps to get back up to speed, then try to juggle him back into the lineup. Who sits for him? CJ? Thompson? Not if I were making the decisions.

Pudge
12-01-2014, 08:26 PM
Shut it, rump humper.

I feel like this is a personal attack, and possibly baiting. I'll Be waiting for my apology

Cugel
12-01-2014, 08:30 PM
Don't worry. I'll get a call up from the Broncos before they cut Tony Carter to make room for McManus!

And here's my photo:

6169

LRtagger
12-01-2014, 08:55 PM
Also I'm pretty sure Barth was wearing an xtra large Tshirt with his number screen printed on it as a jersey. So yea he pretty much has a noodle leg

CrazyHorse
12-01-2014, 09:00 PM
I like this idea of bring McManus back for kickoffs and punts. I'm no so sure we should cut Colquitt though until we see if McManus can punt at an NFL level.

LRtagger
12-01-2014, 09:07 PM
I mean come on look at this guy.


6170

GEM
12-01-2014, 09:07 PM
I feel like this is a personal attack, and possibly baiting. I'll Be waiting for my apology

I'm sorry, rump thumper.

Simple Jaded
12-01-2014, 10:24 PM
Maybe they can cut one of 20 LB's they have and bring in McManus to handle KO's. I just don't trust this ST's coach to handle the added responsibility that comes with all these KO returns. Personally, I think the coach sucks, his units still have the same issues and have only been marginally better in decision making of his returners.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 10:29 PM
Gem. Is your illness causing cramps by chance?

dogfish
12-01-2014, 10:30 PM
If Denver's special teams can't cover a kickoff that isn't a touchback then they deserve to lose.

effin' seriously!

if anything, you try colquitt on kickoffs (in practice!) before bringing back a gun-shy rookie who's never done either at this level, and thinking you're just gonna hand over the punting AND holding duties to him in freakin' december. . . on a team that's the two seed. . .

come on, people, we're better than this!

and quit worrying about the damn salary cap. . . JFE will handle it-- without having to break in a new punter a month before the playoffs. . . special teams are bad enough as it is, good lord! if anything, the ST coach needs to be the first guy to get his walking papers this off-season. . . and he can take colquitt with him then. . . not now. . .

GEM
12-01-2014, 10:56 PM
Gem. Is your illness causing cramps by chance?

No. Headache and chills, thanks for your concern, db.

Dapper Dan
12-01-2014, 10:57 PM
No. Headache and chills, thanks for your concern, db.

Midol for the headache. Hardcore muscle relaxers for the shakes. And a little bit of 151 to forget that you're sick.

GEM
12-01-2014, 11:00 PM
The 151 would suffice for all. :D

ShaneFalco
12-02-2014, 12:55 AM
is this thread serious?

Ravage!!!
12-02-2014, 12:02 PM
Covering Kick Offs that were kicked like they were against KC isn't easy. The kicker put NO height into the kick, and didn't go deep, thus allowing him to get to the 30 bfore our guys even had a chance to get to him. Kicks that are returned out of the endzone average around the 20 yrd line. Barth's kicks were TERRIBLE line drives. Bring back Manus to KO... NOT TO PUNT.

Dapper Dan
12-02-2014, 02:13 PM
Covering Kick Offs that were kicked like they were against KC isn't easy. The kicker put NO height into the kick, and didn't go deep, thus allowing him to get to the 30 bfore our guys even had a chance to get to him. Kicks that are returned out of the endzone average around the 20 yrd line. Barth's kicks were TERRIBLE line drives. Bring back Manus to KO... NOT TO PUNT.

And you don't think that had anything to do with wind?

Ravage!!!
12-02-2014, 02:56 PM
And you don't think that had anything to do with wind?

For THAT bad of kicks? Going both directions, and knowing the fact that Barth was released by teams in the past because of his weak kickoffs? No.

BroncoJoe
12-02-2014, 03:59 PM
Curious no one acknowledges every kick but one (IIRC) had to be held. Those ALWAYS fall much shorter. It's not like they landed at the 30. His worst was the 10 or so - best was the 3.

BroncoJoe
12-02-2014, 04:00 PM
For THAT bad of kicks? Going both directions, and knowing the fact that Barth was released by teams in the past because of his weak kickoffs? No.

And, they were kicking 5 yards further back too.

BroncoWave
12-02-2014, 04:26 PM
The idea of just bringing in a kickoff specialist intrigues me. I feel like that would contribute more toward our chances of winning games than a guy like Tony Carter or Bubba Caldwell.

Valar Morghulis
12-02-2014, 04:43 PM
I think we should cut manning, the money we would save, we could pay mcmanus, and now we run the ball we dont need him anymore

Dapper Dan
12-02-2014, 05:10 PM
I think we should cut manning, the money we would save, we could pay mcmanus, and now we run the ball we dont need him anymore

He definitely didn't earn his money. Didn't he have less than 200 yards? He has a weak arm. Can't throw it when it's windy. Wasn't he released because of his noodle arm and injury?

Valar Morghulis
12-02-2014, 05:25 PM
He definitely didn't earn his money. Didn't he have less than 200 yards? He has a weak arm. Can't throw it when it's windy. Wasn't he released because of his noodle arm and injury?

Yeah - and he is also rubbish at KOs, so for me he is taking up a roster spot that could be filled by some one like Matt prater

HORSEPOWER 56
12-02-2014, 06:42 PM
7 pages talking about a kicker who kicks in the 60% range and why we need him back just to kick off. Damn we must be bored...

dogfish
12-02-2014, 09:19 PM
7 pages talking about a kicker who kicks in the 60% range and why we need him back just to kick off. Damn we must be bored...

hey man, kicking off is a critical phase of the game!

Ziggy
12-02-2014, 09:22 PM
7 pages talking about a kicker who kicks in the 60% range and why we need him back just to kick off. Damn we must be bored...

I brought up the idea of bringing back to kickoff and to punt. He was a good punter in college. Even if he's average in the pros, you get the same type of punter that we have now for close to 3 mill less and a kickoff specialist as a bonus.

dogfish
12-02-2014, 09:28 PM
I brought up the idea of bringing back to kickoff and to punt. He was a good punter in college. Even if he's average in the pros, you get the same type of punter that we have now for close to 3 mill less and a kickoff specialist as a bonus.

unless he's a LOT better at punting than he is at kicking (unlikely, since nobody signed him as a punter), then he won't be anything close to what we have now. . . colquitt certainly isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but he is at least a comptent pro. . . mcmanus was an unmitigated disaster as a kicker-- why would you expect him to be better at punting? and does he have any experience at all as a holder?

BroncoWave
12-02-2014, 10:46 PM
IMO, this team needs a good kickoff specialist more than a good punter.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-02-2014, 10:58 PM
Perhaps we should just give Barth another shot at kickoffs in mile high before we right him off as bad. One game (in which he nailed 5 FGs) in poor conditions is hardly a large enough sample size. I'll reserve judgement for now.

Ziggy
12-02-2014, 11:20 PM
unless he's a LOT better at punting than he is at kicking (unlikely, since nobody signed him as a punter), then he won't be anything close to what we have now. . . colquitt certainly isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but he is at least a comptent pro. . . mcmanus was an unmitigated disaster as a kicker-- why would you expect him to be better at punting? and does he have any experience at all as a holder?

He was the same kind of kicker in the pros that he was in college. Rocket leg, no accuracy. He was a far better punter in college, and I'm guessing that he would be in the pros as well. He averaged 45.3 yards/kick mostly at sea level. As far as having experience as a holder, I couldn't tell you.

Ziggy
12-02-2014, 11:27 PM
IMO, this team needs a good kickoff specialist more than a good punter.

A great kickoff specialist and an average punter would work, considering how we have no kickoff specialist and a grossly overpaid average punter now.

Dapper Dan
12-02-2014, 11:36 PM
He was the same kind of kicker in the pros that he was in college. Rocket leg, no accuracy. He was a far better punter in college, and I'm guessing that he would be in the pros as well. He averaged 45.3 yards/kick mostly at sea level. As far as having experience as a holder, I couldn't tell you.

You'd think he would have been signed as a punter instead of a kicker, if that were the case.

Ziggy
12-02-2014, 11:47 PM
You'd think he would have been signed as a punter instead of a kicker, if that were the case.

Kickers are much harder to find. Especially ones that have 60+ yard range and can kick the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs. Why do you think a guy that had a 72% accuracy rate in college got a shot with 2 different teams in the NFL?

MOtorboat
12-03-2014, 12:27 AM
I'm going to start a bring back McDaniels thread.

dogfish
12-03-2014, 12:55 AM
I'm going to start a bring back McDaniels thread.

oh no you aren't!

Dapper Dan
12-03-2014, 01:31 AM
Kickers are much harder to find. Especially ones that have 60+ yard range and can kick the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs. Why do you think a guy that had a 72% accuracy rate in college got a shot with 2 different teams in the NFL?

Great. He got a chance with 2 teams. Now he's on no team. He who shall not be named got a chance with the Broncos, Patriots, and Jets. Even though his accuracy rate was low. That means nothing.

MOtorboat
12-03-2014, 01:32 AM
oh no you aren't!

This makes me want to even more.

FanInAZ
12-03-2014, 01:34 AM
I'm going to start a bring back McDaniels thread.

I'll demand a lifetime ban if do.

TXBRONC
12-03-2014, 08:10 AM
We must have been watching a different game. Colquitt sucked as usual.

Agreed we must have watched different games because by no means did Colquitt from what I saw.

I went back and checked the his stats. He punted all of four times all of the if I recall were from about midfield so his average wasn't very good but 3 of his four punts pinned the Chiefs inside the 20.

BroncoWave
12-03-2014, 10:40 AM
We must have been watching a different game. Colquitt sucked as usual.

Agreed we must have watched different games because by no means did Colquitt from what I saw.

I went back and checked the his stats. He punted all of four times all of the if I recall were from about midfield so his average wasn't very good but 3 of his four punts pinned the Chiefs inside the 20.

Yes, but most of his punts that "pin people inside the 20" only get to like the 15 yard line or so. If you are punting from around midfield, you need to be pinning those punts at the 5 or 10, not the 15 or 20.

OB
12-03-2014, 01:25 PM
As I dont frequent other teams message boards - are their fans just as tough and unforgiving as ours seem to be :noidea:

Ziggy
12-03-2014, 01:44 PM
Yes, but most of his punts that "pin people inside the 20" only get to like the 15 yard line or so. If you are punting from around midfield, you need to be pinning those punts at the 5 or 10, not the 15 or 20.

Let's be more specific BW.
1st punt- 30 yards. It was so short, it hit the Chiefs defender as he was blocking and Colquitt gets bailed out by blind luck.
2nd punt- 25 yards. He punted from the 41, and the ball was out at the 16 yard line. Inside the 20? Yes. Good punt, no.
3rd punt- 48 yards. He punted from the Denver 35 and the ball went out at the 17 after a fortunate 10 yard bounce. Good punt.
4th punt- 29 yards. He punted from the 40, and that ball went out at the 11. Inside the 20? Yes. Good punt, debatable.

Is anyone really impressed with this performance overall? Just because the stat sheet says that 3 of his 4 punts landed inside the 20 doesn't mean that he punted well.

Ravage!!!
12-03-2014, 01:49 PM
Let's be more specific BW.
1st punt- 30 yards. It was so short, it hit the Chiefs defender as he was blocking and Colquitt gets bailed out by blind luck.
2nd punt- 25 yards. He punted from the 41, and the ball was out at the 16 yard line. Inside the 20? Yes. Good punt, no.
3rd punt- 48 yards. He punted from the Denver 35 and the ball went out at the 17 after a fortunate 10 yard bounce. Good punt.
4th punt- 29 yards. He punted from the 40, and that ball went out at the 11. Inside the 20? Yes. Good punt, debatable.

Is anyone really impressed with this performance overall? Just because the stat sheet says that 3 of his 4 punts landed inside the 20 doesn't mean that he punted well.
So you don't think he's taking off his punt to keep it from going inside the endzone? Going out at the 11 isn't a good punt? The first punt sucked, for sure, but... how far into the game did we have to go before he finally got into the game?

How many punters put the ball inside the other team's 5 on a regular basis? What is the average return when Colquit punts? Is it higher than most? Does he get less distance than most? Distance isn't all that is looked at..but hang time.

Dapper Dan
12-03-2014, 02:06 PM
Great. Let's get a kicker with a strong leg and no accuracy. He will be great at coffin corner punting.

Nomad
12-03-2014, 02:15 PM
What's that average accuracy percentage of a rookie kicker? McManus wasn't too far off from Elam.

VonDoom
12-03-2014, 03:00 PM
As I dont frequent other teams message boards - are their fans just as tough and unforgiving as ours seem to be :noidea:

I tend to stay away from other teams' boards, but I believe that yes, every hardcore fan base scrutinizes every aspect of their team the same way we do.

TXBRONC
12-03-2014, 05:31 PM
Yes, but most of his punts that "pin people inside the 20" only get to like the 15 yard line or so. If you are punting from around midfield, you need to be pinning those punts at the 5 or 10, not the 15 or 20.

Not in swirling winds.

BroncoWave
12-03-2014, 05:37 PM
Not in swirling winds.

His punts have been falling short like that all season. Was not just last week.

TXBRONC
12-03-2014, 05:40 PM
His punts have been falling short like that all season. Was not just last week.


Ah no that's inaccurate.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
12-03-2014, 06:31 PM
I agree with Ziggy and BW on this. Of course, I also was called out for criticizing Colquitt after his poor performance in the Rams game.

It could just be that we don't trust our ST coverage enough to down the ball inside the 20 instead of having Colquitt kick it out.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-03-2014, 06:48 PM
Nine pages and still going... Look folks, McManus just isn't any good. If he was, as a kicker or punter, he'd have been snatched up by another team or the Broncos would've made room for him.

All this fretting over touchbacks is a little ridiculous. What? You mean our STers will have to earn their paycheck and have to cover a kickoff from time to time? Say it isn't so. I'll start worrying when teams start returning kicks for TDs against us. It wasn't that long ago that kick returns were the norm and touchbacks were rare, even for Prater especially on the road. Folks are acting like all kickers have always been measured by touchbacks.

McManus was not proficient at his primary job, kicking FGs. I highly doubt he's any better at punting. Just because he can kick it far doesn't mean he'll be good at it. If he out kicks the coverage, that's usually worse than kicking it too short.

I trust Elway's judgement. If he didn't want McManus around, I don't either. Shit I don't think Decker or Woodyard got this many pages when we let them walk and they were way more valuable and productive than McManus.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-03-2014, 07:32 PM
I'll wait to form an opinion of the new guys kick off ability for when he can kick off without a holder in 20 mph winds. If he can't get it into the end zone at Mile High then I'll be concerned.

Dapper Dan
12-03-2014, 08:18 PM
I'll wait to form an opinion of the new guys kick off ability for when he can kick off without a holder in 20 mph winds. If he can't get it into the end zone at Mile High then I'll be concerned.

Then what will you do the rest of this week?

Ziggy
12-03-2014, 08:40 PM
I'll wait to form an opinion of the new guys kick off ability for when he can kick off without a holder in 20 mph winds. If he can't get it into the end zone at Mile High then I'll be concerned.

Just about any kicker can get it into the endzone in Mile High with no winds. McManus kicks it out of the back of the endzone. I think that there's a large group of us that are concerned about our special teams coverage. The Broncos have been poor in that area for years.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-03-2014, 10:10 PM
Just about any kicker can get it into the endzone in Mile High with no winds. McManus kicks it out of the back of the endzone. I think that there's a large group of us that are concerned about our special teams coverage. The Broncos have been poor in that area for years.

You're not tellin' me anything I don't know dude.

Ravage!!!
12-04-2014, 11:27 AM
Just about any kicker can get it into the endzone in Mile High with no winds. McManus kicks it out of the back of the endzone. I think that there's a large group of us that are concerned about our special teams coverage. The Broncos have been poor in that area for years.

makes it harder on coverage teams when having a kicker that can't put any kind of height onto the kicks.

TXBRONC
12-04-2014, 11:34 AM
Nine pages and still going... Look folks, McManus just isn't any good. If he was, as a kicker or punter, he'd have been snatched up by another team or the Broncos would've made room for him.

All this fretting over touchbacks is a little ridiculous. What? You mean our STers will have to earn their paycheck and have to cover a kickoff from time to time? Say it isn't so. I'll start worrying when teams start returning kicks for TDs against us. It wasn't that long ago that kick returns were the norm and touchbacks were rare, even for Prater especially on the road. Folks are acting like all kickers have always been measured by touchbacks.

McManus was not proficient at his primary job, kicking FGs. I highly doubt he's any better at punting. Just because he can kick it far doesn't mean he'll be good at it. If he out kicks the coverage, that's usually worse than kicking it too short.

I trust Elway's judgement. If he didn't want McManus around, I don't either. Shit I don't think Decker or Woodyard got this many pages when we let them walk and they were way more valuable and productive than McManus.

It's just not a logical move. To bring him back means someone else has to be thrown under the bus. But who? Someone suggested our 4th string running which is Juwan Thompson. If they did that Denver is down to one healthy running back. As I've said before kickers are dime a dozen. As you said the primary job for a kicker is to kick field goals so right now Denver needs someone who is dependable and Barth can provide stability in that department then Denver will be fine.

Mike
12-04-2014, 11:45 AM
It's just not a logical move. To bring him back means someone else has to be thrown under the bus. But who? Someone suggested our 4th string running which is Juwan Thompson. If they did that Denver is down to one healthy running back. As I've said before kickers are dime a dozen. As you said the primary job for a kicker is to kick field goals so right now Denver needs someone who is dependable and Barth can provide stability in that department then Denver will be fine.

I'd be fine with Caldwell hitting the streets. I think the touchbacks are worth it and that sooner or later having short kicks will bite us. Denver's ST are pretty bad.

BroncoWave
12-04-2014, 12:14 PM
I'd be fine with Caldwell hitting the streets. I think the touchbacks are worth it and that sooner or later having short kicks will bite us. Denver's ST are pretty bad.

Agreed. Caldwell just brings no value to this team. Usually keeping 3 kickers is not the best practice, but I think it just might be the best thing for this particular team for just the rest of the season.

Ravage!!!
12-04-2014, 01:45 PM
It's just not a logical move. To bring him back means someone else has to be thrown under the bus. But who? Someone suggested our 4th string running which is Juwan Thompson. If they did that Denver is down to one healthy running back. As I've said before kickers are dime a dozen. As you said the primary job for a kicker is to kick field goals so right now Denver needs someone who is dependable and Barth can provide stability in that department then Denver will be fine.

Field position is HUGE in the NFL. We have had problems with weak teams when we have had starting field positions deep into our own field. If teams are getting to the 30-35 because our kicker isn't able to get the ball deep in KOs, then that is a BIG need. MUCH more needed than some 4th depth (not RB when we are already down 2).

Knowing that field position is as important as it is, then the KO specialist performs a MUCH NEEDED role on a team that can't kick off deep. IF Barth can't improve his KO's, than that additional kicker would be a needed STARTER.

If he can show improvment over that role than what he showed in KC, than there isn't a worry. But the coverage in KC wasn't on the tacklers, that was ALL on the kicker.

Ziggy
12-04-2014, 04:29 PM
I'd be fine with Caldwell hitting the streets. I think the touchbacks are worth it and that sooner or later having short kicks will bite us. Denver's ST are pretty bad.

Caldwell already got the boot off of kickoff returns. I don't think he brings anything to this team that Latimer can't replace.

GEM
12-04-2014, 05:18 PM
Hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee's McManus.

:lol:

Buff
12-04-2014, 05:27 PM
Sort of unrelated - but I wonder if we can get Barth a jersey that fits this week.

GEM
12-04-2014, 05:54 PM
Sort of unrelated - but I wonder if we can get Barth a jersey that fits this week.

They'd have to find another iron on patch. It's not looking so good.