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View Full Version : Halfway Point: The Good and the Bad



BroncoWave
11-04-2014, 09:45 AM
Doing these threads week by week got a little repetitive, but I thought it would be fun to discuss which players/coaches/units have been as good as or better than we thought, and who has disappointed.

Good:

Manning- Not much to say here. Another all-pro type season.

Hillman/JT- It's been awesome to see Hillman do well after getting so much criticism from the fans. And JT has definitely surpassed my expectations, he has found a great role on this team.

Sanders- What a home run signing by Elway. This is exactly the kind of guy we needed in this offense. Love his play and personality.

DT- After a slow start, he is up to #2 in the NFL in receiving yards. He has put himself in the discussion for best WR in the NFL.

JT- Leading the NFL in TD catches and his blocking is improving ever week. Been awesome to see his progression.

Von/Ware- Everything we could have hoped for from this pass rushing duo. Von is back as a top 3 defensive player in the NFL. Awesome to see.

D-line- Gotta love this unit. Have been great stopping the run and in helping the pass rush.

Marshall- Definitely the surprise of the season. We aren't even missing Trevathan as good as this guy has been.

Harris- He has been killing it this year. All of the advanced metrics they are doing put him right up there with the best CBs in the league. Love this guy.

Bad/Underperforming/Not as good as expected:

Ball- We'll see how he responds after his injury, but not a very promising start for him.

RT- that position has been a mess this season. Penalties, holding, you name it. Hopefully we can find some answer there.

Welker- I would file him more under "underperforming" than bad. I think all of those injuries are catching up to him and he's just not the same player he once was.

Ward- He has been a great physical presence on the defense, but his coverage skills are really lacking. I still say he was a good signing, but he's not been as good as I'd hoped.

McManus- Rough year for him so far. I hope he can turn it around, but I'm not really holding my breath.



That's all I can think of off the top of my head. How would you guys rate things at the halfway point?

chazoe60
11-04-2014, 10:11 AM
File lack of mental toughness and stubborn attempts to force a running game early in our two losses under the BAD category.

chazoe60
11-04-2014, 10:12 AM
Oh and for as good as Hillman has run lately he has sucked in blitz pick up, that is one area in which Ball has a decided advantage.

VonDoom
11-04-2014, 10:18 AM
I agree with most of this. You mention coaches in your heading, but you didn't categorize them - how do you think Fox and co. have been so far?

Also, where would you put Talib? I'm kind of on the fence as to whether he has underperformed.

Ziggy
11-04-2014, 10:43 AM
I think Talib has excelled when he is used the way he should be. When he's been allowed to play man press coverage he's been a stud. When JDR has him in zone or off man he has struggled. I think his failings have come from coaching. They knew his strengths and weaknesses when they signed him, but they don't always put him in a position to succeed.

BroncoWave
11-04-2014, 10:52 AM
I agree with most of this. You mention coaches in your heading, but you didn't categorize them - how do you think Fox and co. have been so far?

Also, where would you put Talib? I'm kind of on the fence as to whether he has underperformed.

I think our coaching staff is what it is at this point. Usually good enough but seemingly lost during big games. I don't know who a better option is though, so we just gotta ride with them and hope for the best.

As for Talib, I think he has been pretty good. I've seen criticism of him on here, but nothing bad from him is popping out in my head. IMO, if you aren't noticing a CB, he is doing a good job.

Ravage!!!
11-04-2014, 12:00 PM
I don't think Manning has looked good... in comparing to MANNING. I'm not saying he's "bad" either, I'm saying that he's NOT AS GOOD as Manning was last year. A lot of his throws, this year, are off. He's not leading the WRs like he nomally does, giving them a chance for RAC. Im comparing Manning to Manning. The game LAST week, was the game he looked the best in. This week, it was more of the same with low throws. It was a PERFECT throw to JT for the TD...but it was a good thing it was PERFECT, as it was 3rd and short and we went long with it. Its tough to say that Manning isn't "as good" as I expect considering he's so good. So like I said, I'm certainly not saying he's bad by any measure, but I'm saying he's a downgraded Manning from last season.

I'd disagree that Ward hasn't been as good as expected. I think he's been stellar in the backfield. He's added a toughness and presence we haven't had in a long while.

I agree that Hillman has looked fantastic and has improved our running game tremendously. I know there will be some that will 'bitch' about his missed blitz pickup on that one play...but they were able to blitz all game long right up the middle. That apparently is a weakness we need to resolve.

I'd put the entire OL on the "bad" side...more than the good side. RT is obviously the weak link, but I haven't been impressed with the entire unit so far this season.

I think Talib has played fantastically and has played better than I expected. He's physical, a good tackler, and has shut down recievers this year. He's made INCREDIBLE plays that only top caliber CBs can make. Talib is definitely on the "good" side of the discussion.

Ravage!!!
11-04-2014, 12:02 PM
I think Talib has excelled when he is used the way he should be. When he's been allowed to play man press coverage he's been a stud. When JDR has him in zone or off man he has struggled. I think his failings have come from coaching. They knew his strengths and weaknesses when they signed him, but they don't always put him in a position to succeed.

So you think we should always be playing press cover 1?

Northman
11-04-2014, 01:31 PM
I don't think Manning has looked good... in comparing to MANNING. I'm not saying he's "bad" either, I'm saying that he's NOT AS GOOD as Manning was last year. A lot of his throws, this year, are off. He's not leading the WRs like he nomally does, giving them a chance for RAC. Im comparing Manning to Manning. The game LAST week, was the game he looked the best in. This week, it was more of the same with low throws. It was a PERFECT throw to JT for the TD...but it was a good thing it was PERFECT, as it was 3rd and short and we went long with it. Its tough to say that Manning isn't "as good" as I expect considering he's so good. So like I said, I'm certainly not saying he's bad by any measure, but I'm saying he's a downgraded Manning from last season.

I'd disagree that Ward hasn't been as good as expected. I think he's been stellar in the backfield. He's added a toughness and presence we haven't had in a long while.

I agree that Hillman has looked fantastic and has improved our running game tremendously. I know there will be some that will 'bitch' about his missed blitz pickup on that one play...but they were able to blitz all game long right up the middle. That apparently is a weakness we need to resolve.

I'd put the entire OL on the "bad" side...more than the good side. RT is obviously the weak link, but I haven't been impressed with the entire unit so far this season.

I think Talib has played fantastically and has played better than I expected. He's physical, a good tackler, and has shut down recievers this year. He's made INCREDIBLE plays that only top caliber CBs can make. Talib is definitely on the "good" side of the discussion.

Agree with all this.

As to Manning, its as good as its going to get with him so as he goes the team goes but i agree his throwing has been erratic at times.

slim
11-04-2014, 01:35 PM
Chris Harris.

atwater27
11-04-2014, 02:09 PM
Where did our pass rush and d line go on Sunday?

Slick
11-04-2014, 02:36 PM
Lots of positives with this team. It might be one of the most talented teams Denver has ever had. When they're on they look unstoppable.

The negatives. It's a finesse offense. If a physical team throws off the timing, Denver is toast. The o line play is inconsistent. Manning's physical limitations concern me.

tripp
11-04-2014, 02:53 PM
I don't think it's fair to expect the same kind of year out of Manning as he did last year. I think he's right on track this year to be an All-pro again. I refuse to ever speculate or comment on Manning's game because he's the one of the best.

The whole D-line has been impressive for virtually every game so far this season with an exception of last Sunday.


Emmanual Sanders has been the biggest surprise so far for me. I don't know what I was expecting when we first signed him, I wasn't sure he'd be a dominant #2 receiver that would compliment DT, but he has. Julius Thomas has kind of disappeared, and Wes Welker hasn't been a factor at all with the exception of one or two clutch 3rd down conversions.

I really do think we're a better team this year. Having time to look back at the Patriots game on NFL Game pass, it's pretty clear we really got away from who we are. I may be wrong, but have we ever ran the ball twice on an opening drive? I found we've always set the tone by passing the ball, because that's who we are. The defence appeared all out of sync and didn't seem to apply the same kind of pressure we're normally able to put on other seems. I just think we strayed from the game plan, or perhaps our game plan wasn't who we are in the first place.

BroncoWave
11-04-2014, 02:59 PM
I don't think it's fair to say JT has disappeared. They have been asking him to block a bunch lately due to our o-line struggles. He's still catching the passes that get thrown his way.

Ziggy
11-04-2014, 04:28 PM
So you think we should always be playing press cover 1?

On Talib's side, yes.

tripp
11-04-2014, 04:51 PM
I don't think it's fair to say JT has disappeared. They have been asking him to block a bunch lately due to our o-line struggles. He's still catching the passes that get thrown his way.

Alright I'll reiterate my statement, he hasn't been as productive for fantasy football owners. Although I will say he has dropped a few against San Fran was it? San Fran or the Jets. He had a couple of drops that were easily catchable, but I don't see that as a reason why his production has dropped.

underrated29
11-04-2014, 05:08 PM
I agree with some not with others. here is what I would change imo.


Hillman has not looked good. He had two good games against two bad teams. And one really bad game against a good team.

JT- His blocking has not improved that much at all. The coaching staff still uses him to block which makes no sense. His lack of blocking was directly the result of quite a few of the bad plays last week.

The OL- Aside from Clady and Vasquez- they suck!!!! SUCK BAD!!!!! RT is terrible. LG is ok, and my poor man MANRAM is quite possibly the worst Center in the league this year. Its Abysmal how bad he, and the others are playing.

Coaching- Adam Gase. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better as a play caller then anything Mike Mccoy could ever dream of. That said Gase does not game plan for opponents. He only plays his game. Stubborn. We are going to run our offense the way we run it and not care about what team we face or their defense or how we can attack them. No, Gase just does his thing. He Always runs on first down. Always. Our Runs are terrible and in terrible formations. Yet, we keep doing them over and over and over and over again. Its the mike mccoy aspect that drives me nuts.

Defense- we rarely blitz. We never blitz the A gap. Two things I have said we must Always do against Brady and Rivers. I hate it more than anything when we play zone on 3rd down. Man up on 3rd. Play zone on the first two downs if you want. We get burnt on 3rd down everytime and its almost always zone or off man. Play tight, play up. Thats what we do.

Von Miller on Gronk at the 1 yard line? Why? Just why? Brady looks at Gronk, nods his head and then throws a super easy pass. Why is Von on him?

Ward- this guys has been awesome for us. Making tackles all over. Hitting people hard. Owning the run game.


Rahim moore- Ive defended him. I let go his bad play a long time ago. We still could have won that game even with his mistake. But- he just kind of sucks. He is an average saftey. Not rangy imo. Makes the wrong reads and does not get picks unless they are thrown right to him or the ball bounces off Talib into his arms. Hes a downer


The rest is pretty good. I like Burse at PR. He will make some plays soon I think.


As of right now. I would spend my first rd pick on either a FS or LG and my second rd pick on either a FS or LG and my 3rd rd pick on a C or MLB

VonDoom
11-04-2014, 05:25 PM
I agree that Ramirez has sucked. I'd like to see Montgomery get a shot without shuffling the entire line.

Valar Morghulis
11-04-2014, 05:39 PM
The good - all summer free agent signings (loving Ward in the run game and Sanders diverts my blood), the return of Von, Our DT depth (goodbye pot roast - go get over paid somewhere, we are sorted), Bradley Roby has rocked also, the pictures from the tailgate!,

The bad - The O-line, Ball, the whole team in the NE game (less #10), i still dont trust Hillman 100%, Caldwell sucks ********,

Overall, given our schedule, i would have taken two losses at the half way point if you offered that at the start of the season.

I honestly feel we will win out and win it all. Regardless of who we face in the AFCCG or Superbowl.

Tangerine
11-04-2014, 06:03 PM
I don't think Manning has looked good... in comparing to MANNING. I'm not saying he's "bad" either, I'm saying that he's NOT AS GOOD as Manning was last year. A lot of his throws, this year, are off. He's not leading the WRs like he nomally does, giving them a chance for RAC. Im comparing Manning to Manning. The game LAST week, was the game he looked the best in. This week, it was more of the same with low throws. It was a PERFECT throw to JT for the TD...but it was a good thing it was PERFECT, as it was 3rd and short and we went long with it. Its tough to say that Manning isn't "as good" as I expect considering he's so good. So like I said, I'm certainly not saying he's bad by any measure, but I'm saying he's a downgraded Manning from last season.

I'd disagree that Ward hasn't been as good as expected. I think he's been stellar in the backfield. He's added a toughness and presence we haven't had in a long while.

I agree that Hillman has looked fantastic and has improved our running game tremendously. I know there will be some that will 'bitch' about his missed blitz pickup on that one play...but they were able to blitz all game long right up the middle. That apparently is a weakness we need to resolve.

I'd put the entire OL on the "bad" side...more than the good side. RT is obviously the weak link, but I haven't been impressed with the entire unit so far this season.

I think Talib has played fantastically and has played better than I expected. He's physical, a good tackler, and has shut down recievers this year. He's made INCREDIBLE plays that only top caliber CBs can make. Talib is definitely on the "good" side of the discussion.

Well he is on pace for 5,000 yards and 48 TDs......

Of course he has some bad throws, but so does every other QB, remember Brady overthrowing a wide open Lafell?

BroncoWave
11-04-2014, 07:07 PM
Good call on Caldwell, dave. Totally forgot about him. Guy has been hot garbage this year, and I was a defender of his before this season. I hope we have seen the last of him returning kicks.

BroncoWave
11-04-2014, 07:09 PM
Well he is on pace for 5,000 yards and 48 TDs......

Of course he has some bad throws, but so does every other QB, remember Brady overthrowing a wide open Lafell?

Manning's season last year has spoiled a bunch of fans for sure. He's just expected to be perfect on every play or else he's a "disappointment". I think it's absolute insanity to say Manning has been anything but great this year.

Runamok
11-04-2014, 07:36 PM
I don't think it's fair to say JT has disappeared. They have been asking him to block a bunch lately due to our o-line struggles. He's still catching the passes that get thrown his way.

I heard JT speak for the first time this past week. What an articulate and classy guy.

Runamok
11-04-2014, 07:38 PM
Where did our pass rush and d line go on Sunday?

We played the Pats. Hate to say it, but they're good.

Runamok
11-04-2014, 07:45 PM
I agree with some not with others. here is what I would change imo.


Hillman has not looked good. He had two good games against two bad teams. And one really bad game against a good team.

JT- His blocking has not improved that much at all. The coaching staff still uses him to block which makes no sense. His lack of blocking was directly the result of quite a few of the bad plays last week.

The OL- Aside from Clady and Vasquez- they suck!!!! SUCK BAD!!!!! RT is terrible. LG is ok, and my poor man MANRAM is quite possibly the worst Center in the league this year. Its Abysmal how bad he, and the others are playing.

Coaching- Adam Gase. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better as a play caller then anything Mike Mccoy could ever dream of. That said Gase does not game plan for opponents. He only plays his game. Stubborn. We are going to run our offense the way we run it and not care about what team we face or their defense or how we can attack them. No, Gase just does his thing. He Always runs on first down. Always. Our Runs are terrible and in terrible formations. Yet, we keep doing them over and over and over and over again. Its the mike mccoy aspect that drives me nuts.

Defense- we rarely blitz. We never blitz the A gap. Two things I have said we must Always do against Brady and Rivers. I hate it more than anything when we play zone on 3rd down. Man up on 3rd. Play zone on the first two downs if you want. We get burnt on 3rd down everytime and its almost always zone or off man. Play tight, play up. Thats what we do.

Von Miller on Gronk at the 1 yard line? Why? Just why? Brady looks at Gronk, nods his head and then throws a super easy pass. Why is Von on him?

Ward- this guys has been awesome for us. Making tackles all over. Hitting people hard. Owning the run game.


Rahim moore- Ive defended him. I let go his bad play a long time ago. We still could have won that game even with his mistake. But- he just kind of sucks. He is an average saftey. Not rangy imo. Makes the wrong reads and does not get picks unless they are thrown right to him or the ball bounces off Talib into his arms. Hes a downer


The rest is pretty good. I like Burse at PR. He will make some plays soon I think.


As of right now. I would spend my first rd pick on either a FS or LG and my second rd pick on either a FS or LG and my 3rd rd pick on a C or MLB

Von is without question one of the most athletic players on the freakin' team....big, fast and agile.

Who else would you suggest they try cover Gronkowski?

Here, let me make that question easy. There is NO ONE on the roster, or in the League, who can cover that dude.

atwater27
11-04-2014, 07:50 PM
Gronk is uncoverable.

WTE
11-04-2014, 07:54 PM
We played the Pats. Hate to say it, but they're good.

I don't know about that. Joel says you got beat by an inferior team. That means you're still better.

VonDoom
11-04-2014, 08:10 PM
Our DT depth (goodbye pot roast - go get over paid somewhere, we are sorted)

Easy there, tiger.


I honestly feel we will win out and win it all. Regardless of who we face in the AFCCG or Superbowl.

I can't see any way that we win out. We can probably afford one more loss if we want to play any home games in the postseason. Beyond that, I can't speculate after our dismantling on Sunday.

underrated29
11-04-2014, 10:05 PM
Von is without question one of the most athletic players on the freakin' team....big, fast and agile.

Who else would you suggest they try cover Gronkowski?

Here, let me make that question easy. There is NO ONE on the roster, or in the League, who can cover that dude.



Let me make it easy. Talib, someone who is good at press, someone who understands what a wr is going to do off the snap. Someone who actually covers wr.

And before you try and say that gronk is a TE, he is lined up wide at wr, not te on that play. The ONlY receiver on that play.


Von is a stud, he should never have been put on gronk at the 1.

tripp
11-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Let me make it easy. Talib, someone who is good at press, someone who understands what a wr is going to do off the snap. Someone who actually covers wr.

And before you try and say that gronk is a TE, he is lined up wide at wr, not te on that play. The ONlY receiver on that play.


Von is a stud, he should never have been put on gronk at the 1.

Yep. Even John Fox wasn't sure why Von was on Gronk in one of his interviews the other day. I'd honestly rather anyone on Gronk that our best pass rusher.

BroncoJoe
11-05-2014, 10:57 AM
To be fair, they didn't line up that way, so it wasn't intentional that Von was covering Gronk. The coaches should have called a time out.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-05-2014, 11:20 AM
To be fair, they didn't line up that way, so it wasn't intentional that Von was covering Gronk. The coaches should have called a time out.

At that point it didn't matter. It was 1st and goal at the one. BB would've gone for it on 4th down if he had to. The likely hood we'd have stopped them is minuscule.

What the should've done was make sure Von got a jam at the LOS and had a Safety shift into the outside flat to take away the quick slant possibility. Gronk was the only option on that play and had we disrupted him, Brady would've had to throw it away. Instead, Von let him get a free release and everyone else played the run.